BA Holdpool

[skyflyer101]

I was wondering whether anyone else was sitting in the BA holdpool and had heard anything from BA? There's been no update since Sept last year. After logging in a week back it now no longer displays First Officer Holdpool under applications so I assume the holdpool no longer exists?

[capt.sparrow]

Which hold pool were you in? Did you have a job offer or just swimming after successful application?

As far as I know there's still a few members in the Priority Return Pool (redundancies) waiting on a call back - a friend has just received a start date having been let go 3 weeks after starting in March 2020.

After them there is a Priority Hold Pool - these are the ones who had a start date/fleet which was revoked in 2020. They have mentors from BA to keep in touch and be point of contact and active hold pool status to end of 2023.

After that it was just the 'Hold Pool'. One guy I know who was in this has heard nothing like you unfortunately when the updates dried up.

Good luck!

[skyflyer101]

I was in the Holdpool swimming and waiting for a course to be assigned but never ended up getting one before everything froze up. Not sure what the plans are for those in the standard hold pool, I sadly suspect that that hold pool may have just been scrapped. There have been no updates whatsoever, not even a thanks but no thanks :/

[capt.sparrow]

Not sure then I'm afraid. The email confirming a place in the hold pool after successful selection used to state a hold pool validity of a year? I'll try and find out some more info for you

[Die By Wire]

I’m in the PRP holdpool. No direct contact or updates from BA for a while but I understand they are very busy / focussed on Euroflyer recruitment and operations at the moment so not expecting a call to arms in the very near future. My personal guess would be a call February next year in time for the spring / summer 2023 timetable OR sadly not at all. It’s their train set.

[TheAirMission]

I’m in the PRP holdpool. No direct contact or updates from BA for a while but I understand they are very busy / focussed on Euroflyer recruitment and operations at the moment so not expecting a call to arms in the very near future. My personal guess would be a call February next year in time for the spring / summer 2023 timetable OR sadly not at all. It’s their train set.

They've taken at least 40 from the top of the PRP since a few weeks ago and will certainly need more as they are short on LH RHS. Not saying you'll be offered LH but a shuffle here and there is needed.

[Die By Wire]

Thanks for the info AirMission. From a personal point of view (and I know everyone is different), I would prefer to return to SH Left Hand Seat LHR, which is where I was for the last 18 years before leaving. However, with limited promotion prospects within the Company at the moment, it could present an ‘industrial challenge’ in reinstating former Captains. I’m not holding out much hope but I could be pleasantly surprised. On the positive side, most of the online video forums I tuned into, the presenters did seem to suggest former pilots would return to their previous status / seniority unless I misunderstood them or indeed if they’ve changed their minds. Again it’s their train set.

[TheAirMission]

Thanks for the info AirMission. From a personal point of view (and I know everyone is different), I would prefer to return to SH Left Hand Seat LHR, which is where I was for the last 18 years before leaving. However, with limited promotion prospects within the Company at the moment, it could present an ‘industrial challenge’ in reinstating former Captains. I’m not holding out much hope but I could be pleasantly surprised. On the positive side, most of the online video forums I tuned into, the presenters did seem to suggest former pilots would return to their previous status / seniority unless I misunderstood them or indeed if they’ve changed their minds. Again it’s their train set.

Based on your past experience, can I ask why you didn't take up the offer of Euroflier DEC? As you talk about wanting both SH and LHS which was offered to redundant BA pilots, or were you just not high enough in the pool? I'm sorry to say that based on that discussions with colleagues of mine within BA, I do not believe those who were made redundant would return to their old seniority/pay point level.

[Die By Wire]

Agree. I knew that the Pay Point wouldn’t be reinstated but I got the impression from the forums that the seniority would. Seems I’m now retired. Ah well.

[OBK!]

Agree. I knew that the Pay Point wouldn’t be reinstated but I got the impression from the forums that the seniority would. Seems I’m now retired. Ah well.
Seniority has been re-instated. Pay point hasn't but is apparently on the list of things to ask for in BALPA.

[skyflyer101]

Based on what’s written above does this sound right:

until Easter next year it’ll be only PRP people getting start dates,
for the remainder of next year the PHP people (those who were given course dates but never started) getting start dates
at the end of next year (if at all), everyone else in the regular holdpool getting start dates

It seems like besides Gatwick BA isn’t in any rush to hire external people.

[thetimesreader84]

Based on what’s written above does this sound right:

until Easter next year it’ll be only PRP people getting start dates,
for the remainder of next year the PHP people (those who were given course dates but never started) getting start dates
at the end of next year (if at all), everyone else in the regular holdpool getting start dates

It seems like besides Gatwick BA isn’t in any rush to hire external people.

Not what I heard from a trainer recently.

The current consensus is that everyone from the PRP thats coming back, will be back by the end of the year. Not everyone wants to return (understandable).

This apparently leaves us needing 50-150 pilots. If it's the lower number (the winter plan hasn't been finalised yet, never mind 2023) then they'll "sweat the assets". If it's the higher, they'll need to recruit.

Theres also a rumour were getting 10 or so LH hulls (mainly A350s, but some 787) this winter that were originally destined for Russia but have been released to the market. This would be in addition to the scenario outlined above.

Happy swimming. Its not a bad job, really.

[RogueOne]

Based on what’s written above does this sound right:

at the end of next year (if at all), everyone else in the regular holdpool getting start dates.


Is this holdpool empty? full? in need of topping up? When if any could there be any external recruitment to get ready?

[Northern Monkey]

My view would be, subject to the economy not melting down entirely again due to recession/rate rises/high inflation that BA will sooner or later have a bit of a panic about pilot recruitment, much as they are about recruitment for other positions at the moment. Post Brexit there is a smaller number of people with the right to live and work in the UK, and everyone else (easy/ryr/jet2/Tui) etc are going to be competing for these same people. Cadet schemes are a long time in the making. You can’t set them up and have pilots ready 6 or even 12 months later, and I don’t see anyone even talking about setting them up.

In the meantime I’ve lost count of the number of colleagues I speak to who are adamant they aren’t going to go to 65. Honestly, I’m not in the business of giving people false hope and I freely admit there are a lot of unknowns, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if things started to change very quickly towards the back end of this year.

[Snr]

Anyone with insider knowledge on what BA would plan to do with those of us who hadn't quite reached the Hold Pool yet? I managed to get through to the Sim Assessment pre-covid, and my application is still showing on the portal. Any ideas if they would plan to kick off from where they left, or start the process from scratch?

[Alrosa]

Anyone with insider knowledge on what BA would plan to do with those of us who hadn't quite reached the Hold Pool yet? I managed to get through to the Sim Assessment pre-covid, and my application is still showing on the portal. Any ideas if they would plan to kick off from where they left, or start the process from scratch?

Various people caught up in the middle of the assessment process . An email was sent out at the time stating their progress would be “frozen” and if & when external recruitment started up again, they could pick up from where they left off.

However, without wanting to repeat the obvious , there’s now a question mark over if & when external recruitment will start again, and if it does, whether people with active applications in the system will be asked to start all over again. I suspect the priority at the minute is the PRP and PHP. But things at BA can and have changed rapidly in the past ….

[A320LGW]

2 quick questions:

If you are put onto a long haul fleet upon joining, is the basic pay higher than those who joined at the same time but were put onto the short haul fleet?

If you are 737 rated, are they likely to keep you Boeing or is it possible they may still put you on the A320?

[thetimesreader84]

2 quick questions:

If you are put onto a long haul fleet upon joining, is the basic pay higher than those who joined at the same time but were put onto the short haul fleet?

Yes. Don't get me started...

EDIT: As pointed out by White Van Driver, PP1 is the same for all fleets, but diverges by about £900 cumulatively per year after that.



If you are 737 rated, are they likely to keep you Boeing or is it possible they may still put you on the A320?

It depends on what they require at the time, but all else being equal, you're more likely to go to a Boeing fleet.

[White Van Driver]

Yes. Don't get me started...
Ok I'll get you started - I thought LH and SH have the same PP1?
Granted SH becomes less than LH as you progress up the PPs, but the question was about the basic salary on joining the company?

[vin2001]

The PRP should be empty by September if courses continue to be offered into the Autumn... or atleast everyone will be offered a job back. My money is on external recruitment starting in the next few weeks if not months as the lead time to get a pilot in is about 6 months... Application, assessment day, sim assessment, offer, notice period, security and reference..... PRP and PHP will be long but not so fond memories very soon!

[thetimesreader84]

Ok I'll get you started - I thought LH and SH have the same PP1?
Granted SH becomes less than LH as you progress up the PPs, but the question was about the basic salary on joining the company?

You are correct.

That's my mistake & I'll take it on the chin. But the pay scales do diverge fairly rapidly, approximately £900 per year (cumulative) for LH vs SH. Soon adds up...

[balpalover69]

It's crazy people are still considering BA considering how the junior were treated in 2020...

Especially with the current climate in the east of Europe and economically....

Are you people employed looking to move? or unemployed and BA is the only option, UK licence for example.

[Alrosa]

It's crazy people are still considering BA considering how the junior were treated in 2020...

Especially with the current climate in the east of Europe and economically....

Are you people employed looking to move? or unemployed and BA is the only option, UK licence for example.

There will always be people applying to BA, regardless of what happens. Just like there will always be people who apply to Ryanair or Wizzair.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

It's crazy people are still considering BA considering how the junior were treated in 2020...

Especially with the current climate in the east of Europe and economically....

Are you people employed looking to move? or unemployed and BA is the only option, UK licence for example.

Mate BA is still a great option unless you’re over 40 and then maybe not great to take advantage of seniority but it’s not the worst.

Look at guys from Flybe (750 pilots dumped on the market), Norwegian, Cityjet!!!

Yes it wasn’t nice but a lot are back now and yes it’s been discussed a lot BA SH is pretty tough but you have options.
No airline is perfect have to find what suits you.
Ok J2 didn’t get rid of anyone but for some doing SH around Europe for 20-30 years would be dull as dish water. For others it’s great.

I would put money on as soon as BA open to external the system will crash within and hour. They will be inundated.

[balpalover69]

You're right - the BA hat would look better on pilot.*****'s Instagram feed than a Ryanair or Wizz uniform... :oh:

[vin2001]

Hearing on the grapevine that the PRP has been exhausted and near empty so it must mean external recruitment starts soon?? Any rumours?

[TheAirMission]

Hearing on the grapevine that the PRP has been exhausted and near empty so it must mean external recruitment starts soon?? Any rumours?
Theres quite a few people in the PHP, the unofficial pool of those who signed a contract but got binned before joining.

[Die By Wire]

Hearing on the grapevine that the PRP has been exhausted and near empty so it must mean external recruitment starts soon?? Any rumours?
Not sure of your source but I’m in the PRP and have not been contacted by anyone unless the Gatwick Euroflyer trawl counts.

[skyflyer101]

Could it be that they're desperate for people to start at Gatwick and so having exhausted the group in the PRP they'll now look to the PHP to fill those gatwick slots?

[thetimesreader84]

Not sure of your source but I’m in the PRP and have not been contacted by anyone unless the Gatwick Euroflyer trawl counts.

Where are you in the PRP / Are you 320 rated? I know of someone who was offered 320 Mainline LHR despite only being about 6 months in the company when chopped (they joined in Jan 2020 IIRC). They were however 320 rated.

Have also been told by a fairly senior (320) trainer that their "working assumption now is everyone that wants to come back has a course date".

I don't know how this translates to other fleets.

I'm not trying to knock you down, just repeating what I've been told. Hopefully they're just working towards your point in the list.

[balpalover69]

Where are you in the PRP / Are you 320 rated? I know of someone who was offered 320 Mainline LHR despite only being about 6 months in the company when chopped (they joined in Jan 2020 IIRC). They were however 320 rated.

Have also been told by a fairly senior (320) trainer that their "working assumption now is everyone that wants to come back has a course date".

I don't know how this translates to other fleets.

I'm not trying to knock you down, just repeating what I've been told. Hopefully they're just working towards your point in the list.



There are still some at the very bottom who havent been offered anything yet (very few)

And also 40-60 who were unable to make their first offer due to notice, bond payments or waiting for LH (I would presume around 70-80 left all in?)

Then the PHP under that (unsure of size). I would be surprised if there is any external recruitment this year. Wouldnt surprise me after PRP and PHP drained it slowed down completely, but only indivividuals in planning would be able to say for sure.

[Die By Wire]

There are still some at the very bottom who havent been offered anything yet (very few)

And also 40-60 who were unable to make their first offer due to notice, bond payments or waiting for LH (I would presume around 70-80 left all in?)

Then the PHP under that (unsure of size). I would be surprised if there is any external recruitment this year. Wouldnt surprise me after PRP and PHP drained it slowed down completely, but only indivividuals in planning would be able to say for sure.

Hi balpalover, that would seem to fit as I was in the mid 90% point in the queue when the list was first created as Compulsory Redundancy pilots were rightly ahead of Voluntary Redundancy pilots like myself.

[capt.sparrow]

The Priority Hold Pool (terminated offers) in theory should be 3 months worth of courses/candidates - don't know how many would have run a month and numbers on courses. Standard offer to start date was 3 months back in 2019/20.

[ClearedToNowhere]

If anybody is tempted to get back into it by joining Euroflyer down in Gatwick, let me assure you it’s wonderful.
If you enjoy 6 on 1 off starting with lates and rotating backwards to mornings, and working with cabin crew who’ve slept for 4 hours in the last 5 days then really, it’s the place for you!

[3Greens]

If anybody is tempted to get back into it by joining Euroflyer down in Gatwick, let me assure you it’s wonderful.
If you enjoy 6 on 1 off starting with lates and rotating backwards to mornings, and working with cabin crew who’ve slept for 4 hours in the last 5 days then really, it’s the place for you!
can’t speak for the cabin crew side of things, and I’m sure managements goal is to sweat the assets to the max; but iBid doesn’t seem to back up your claim..at present. Some long days sure, but 6 on 1 off and repeat doesn’t seem to be on many rosters at all.

[A320LGW]

Any word yet on direct entry hiring in the reasonably near future?

[MikeeeA320]

If anybody is tempted to get back into it by joining Euroflyer down in Gatwick, let me assure you it’s wonderful.
If you enjoy 6 on 1 off starting with lates and rotating backwards to mornings, and working with cabin crew who’ve slept for 4 hours in the last 5 days then really, it’s the place for you!

:ugh::ugh:Don´t feed the troll!!!

Friend of mine just got his CMD in LGW. Startup OPS as expected, nothing unusual.. small base and nice chaps there. Average sector length is around 3,5hrs due to the route network (Spain, Greece, Italy, Turkey..)
So for the rocket scientist: 7hours per day times 6 days = 42hours + another lets say 6 days and you are with 84hrs... so not that much left you can do in the remaining 18 days.. ;-)
Anyhow.. don't feed the troll....

[HEJT2015]

Any word yet on direct entry hiring in the reasonably near future?

My understanding..

Plan is extremely fluid - potential DEP numbers for next year differ from none to a lot on a weekly basis, but entirely depends on BA’s ability to recover (build up the rest of the operation such as below the wing and not forgetting the LH a/c delivery delays).

I believe it’s a little more negative now than what it was a few weeks ago, but only time will tell and regardless they’re keen to get numbers in a hold pool for new DEPs just in case.

Aside from those who remain in the PRP..

PHP + (no contract) Hold Pool equals around 150 heads so that’ll absorb a chunk of vacancies, but it sounds like everything’s ready to go to launch a campaign IF it’s needed..

I say this and they’ll announce it tomorrow..

[balpalover69]

For anyone hoping to apply it might be worth bearing in mind that BA initially *said* they would honor people already in the recruitment process, if not honor their position, possibly give them first dibs on reapplying, which was at least a few month worth of assesments...

[A320LGW]

OK thanks for the info guys. Let's hope it happens sooner rather than later

[Alrosa]

For anyone hoping to apply it might be worth bearing in mind that BA initially *said* they would honor people already in the recruitment process, if not honor their position, possibly give them first dibs on reapplying, which was at least a few month worth of assesments...

That’s absolutely true though it remains to be seen whether or when that might happen.

[maccawakeling]

It’ll be interesting to see what happens and when. Like many I made it as far as the sim assessment before being ‘frozen’ I do hope they stick to their word. The application is still active online which I guess is a good sign!

[skyflyer101]

It seems there are two real questions from all of this…

1) when will there be a new recruitment campaign

2) even if there is a new recruitment campaign, when will new recruits / existing holdpoolers (non PHP) / those mid application process previously be given actual start dates.

I would guess that for PHP there’s hope for a start date this year but for everyone else even if there is recruitment it may just be to end up joining and sitting in the hold pool for whenever it is that BA decide they want people.

With inflation and LH aircraft delays it seems actual start dates won’t happen until later next year :/ there’s been no actual official holdpool update since mid last year so it doesn’t paint a great picture :(

For those in BA, does it seem likely that any new recruitment will be primarily for LGW rather than LHR LH?

[Jwscud]

BA will as always do what suits them (minimum courses) - DEP long haul fleets, LHR short haul or LGW. I think that’s all one can rely on.

It is logical that they would return to those who have been through assessments as it saves them time and money.

[balpalover69]

It seems there are two real questions from all of this…

1) when will there be a new recruitment campaign

2) even if there is a new recruitment campaign, when will new recruits / existing holdpoolers (non PHP) / those mid application process previously be given actual start dates.

I would guess that for PHP there’s hope for a start date this year but for everyone else even if there is recruitment it may just be to end up joining and sitting in the hold pool for whenever it is that BA decide they want people.

With inflation and LH aircraft delays it seems actual start dates won’t happen until later next year :/ there’s been no actual official holdpool update since mid last year so it doesn’t paint a great picture :(

For those in BA, does it seem likely that any new recruitment will be primarily for LGW rather than LHR LH?


Makes sense for them to take from people who were mid-assessment - as said, saves time and money.

Apparently the requirement for crew is very fluid.

I would assume they offer LGW offers first then LHR/DEP LH offers if/when the LGW ones are rejected. Basically they will do whats cheapest (LGW) /more convinient. (DEP LH)

As i said previously, its more suitable for thos who care about their instagram feeds rather than their working conditions.....

[ClearedToNowhere]

:ugh::ugh:Don´t feed the troll!!!

Friend of mine just got his CMD in LGW. Startup OPS as expected, nothing unusual.. small base and nice chaps there. Average sector length is around 3,5hrs due to the route network (Spain, Greece, Italy, Turkey..)
So for the rocket scientist: 7hours per day times 6 days = 42hours + another lets say 6 days and you are with 84hrs... so not that much left you can do in the remaining 18 days.. ;-)
Anyhow.. don't feed the troll....

The troll! :E “Your friend” amazing, my brothers girlfriends cousins dog walker told me something different!
I never said it wasn’t a nice base, As someone who is here, and not receiving third party info from “friends”, living, breathing and working, colleagues are lovely and the operation is semi smooth. The rostering is the issue.
I can even send you screenshots of my beautiful roster if you don’t believe me :ugh:
But let’s not allow facts to tarnish a good thread.
Best go and make the most of my minimum rest. Wonder if your friend would be willing to swap with me?

[thetimesreader84]

Looking at the Gatwick rosters on ibid, they're the sort of rosters I'd wince at during my charter days. At least back then we had a quiet winter to look forward to and in the meantime a decent fatigue system. Good job BA has a good FRMS... So good I hear Wizzair want to use it!

If you came from mainline without a solid reason and an exit plan then I've limited sympathy - it's been apparent almost from minute one who BA were looking to copy with the EF project (hint; it's not a western European airline).

If you came from the PRP however then you really do have my sympathy. You've been let down by an uncaring employer, facilitated by a union who failed to stand up for its members who were most vulnerable and had the most to lose. Permitting fire & rehire, the loss of scope & another (low cost) airline access to the MSL is naive at best. I suspect it'll come back to bite us all on the botty, and probably soon given the recession that's coming.

[Wireless]

When I read the post saying 4 hour sectors x 2 a day leaving 12 days at work and 18 off, I did look at the rosters to see if it’s like this. Have to say I think that’s untrue going off iBid. Plenty of shorter sectors in there which stops that working. No one on either rank seems to be maxing their hours in 12 days leaving 18 days clear. Fairly frequent single days off scattered about, rows of earlies. Lates to earlies either side of days off. Seems to be 10/12 days off. People I noticed who have more days off I think are P/T.

[skyflyer101]

With BA having scrapped 10,300 short haul departures until October does this effectively mean a halt in taking on any new joiners, including those in the PRP? Or are they continuing to bring people on board?

I remember hearing from a BA trainer some months back that the 787 fleet for example is extremely overcrewed at the moment and that when new airframes arrive it’ll just even things out rather than needing new people on that fleet. Does that sound about right even now?

I’m still confused as to how people in the regular hold pool can anticipate start dates even next year when there are people who say they are in the PRP who have heard nothing yet 🙉

[capt.sparrow]

They are fishing in the PHP now for LGW interest, so who knows? Emails hitting inboxes currently.

[skyflyer101]

Oh interesting. Fishing for interest but for imminent start dates or start dates at later times? 🤔 or…. Simply just looking for interest.

Also….. are you allowed to reject LGW short haul in favour of waiting for LHR long haul or will that result in being chucked out the hold pool?

Have any offers for long haul been made to PRP?

[Chief Willy]

Oh interesting. Fishing for interest but for imminent start dates or start dates at later times? 🤔 or…. Simply just looking for interest.

Also….. are you allowed to reject LGW short haul in favour of waiting for LHR long haul or will that result in being chucked out the hold pool?

Have any offers for long haul been made to PRP?

I think the chance of LH DEP is actually quite low for the next year or so. Nearly the entire P32L list is eligible to move now and most courses will be to 787 and 350, which will be very popular internally. Having said that there could be a chance at the less secure 777 and 380 fleets as BA now (attempt to) do redundancy by fleet. It all depends on what internal bidders gun for.

[capt.sparrow]

Oh interesting. Fishing for interest but for imminent start dates or start dates at later times? 🤔 or…. Simply just looking for interest.

Also….. are you allowed to reject LGW short haul in favour of waiting for LHR long haul or will that result in being chucked out the hold pool?

Have any offers for long haul been made to PRP?
Imminent offers and start dates but limited numbers I believe for LGW, asking for expressions of interest from PHP if you want to be considered. It is after all EuroFlyer and not mainline.

I think you have two bites of the cherry if you pass on the first offer but doubt you can just hang on for LH - if you're in the pool I would be expecting A320 really.

[balpalover69]

Oh interesting. Fishing for interest but for imminent start dates or start dates at later times? 🤔 or…. Simply just looking for interest.

Also….. are you allowed to reject LGW short haul in favour of waiting for LHR long haul or will that result in being chucked out the hold pool?

Have any offers for long haul been made to PRP?

Balpa/BA have allowed a degree of leniency for the PRP to pick and choose, as a lot came off LH fleets. I wouldn’t expect this to carry over into PHP and regular hold pool, generally you take what you’re offered or bye bye. Regardless for PRP (maybe PHP too), LGW was non binding do you could turn it down indefinitely.

No LH offers yet.

I believe demand for pilots pretty much hinges on the ability to ramp up other aspects of operation, ground staff cabin crew etc..

[Fidel Castro]

For those of us who are outsiders, can anyone define and explain what PRP and PHP are?

[capt.sparrow]

For those of us who are outsiders, can anyone define and explain what PRP and PHP are?

PRP - Priority Return Pool - those made redundant being brought back.

PHP - Priority Hold Pool - those with previous offers and contracts which were never fulfilled due to COVID first in line for new offers.

[Twiglet1]

Looking at the Gatwick rosters on ibid, they're the sort of rosters I'd wince at during my charter days. At least back then we had a quiet winter to look forward to and in the meantime a decent fatigue system. Good job BA has a good FRMS... So good I hear Wizzair want to use it!

If you came from mainline without a solid reason and an exit plan then I've limited sympathy - it's been apparent almost from minute one who BA were looking to copy with the EF project (hint; it's not a western European airline).

If you came from the PRP however then you really do have my sympathy. You've been let down by an uncaring employer, facilitated by a union who failed to stand up for its members who were most vulnerable and had the most to lose. Permitting fire & rehire, the loss of scope & another (low cost) airline access to the MSL is naive at best. I suspect it'll come back to bite us all on the botty, and probably soon given the recession that's coming.
O dear covid is only just over and it's a moaning Nigel. What did you do for 2 covid years apart from get paid?
If it's that bad just go

[thetimesreader84]

Applications are already in mate. When I get a reply, you'll be the first to know.

[Alrosa]

So reading between the lines, it’s anyone’s guess and no one really knows when external recruitment will open up, with the proviso that those in any kind of pool will get a crack at any openings first, followed (maybe) by anyone that was caught up in the assessment process when it all came to a stop.

As an interested observer, my guess is not before the winter schedule and most probably not before the new year; and that’s before making any allowances for the effects of new COVID variants and related restrictions coming back into play, and the state of the U.K. economy and more broadly the general economic situation globally

Very difficult to predict. Best places to bide one’s time are probably Ryanair or cargo.

[skyflyer101]

So reading between the lines, it’s anyone’s guess and no one really knows when external recruitment will open up, with the proviso that those in any kind of pool will get a crack at any openings first, followed (maybe) by anyone that was caught up in the assessment process when it all came to a stop.

As an interested observer, my guess is not before the winter schedule and most probably not before the new year; and that’s before making any allowances for the effects of new COVID variants and related restrictions coming back into play, and the state of the U.K. economy and more broadly the general economic situation globally

Very difficult to predict. Best places to bide one’s time are probably Ryanair or cargo.


Waiting in the hold pool for a number of years now with no update since mid last year it really is anyones guess.

The state of the uk economy doesn’t paint a hopeful picture.

You are right in that cargo may be the best place to wait but the problem is waiting somewhere that you don’t want to be long term at the expense of alternative opportunities which will be lost waiting around for BA :/ it’s a tough one :(

[roll_over]

If you look at the state of the carriers in the US and compare them to BA you do wonder what BALPA is doing….?

[Jwscud]

Rumour is offers now going/about to go out to the hold pool of those who had start dates in 2020 then revoked.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Rumour is offers now going/about to go out to the hold pool of those who had start dates in 2020 then revoked.

Dont think so. Mate of mine is still waiting and he was one of the last to start at BA as is another guy who started in Feb 2020.

[HEJT2015]

Dont think so. Mate of mine is still waiting and he was one of the last to start at BA as is another guy who started in Feb 2020.

Your mate’s holding out for mainline, these incoming offers for those outside of the PRP are for EF.

[flyme2themoon_]

Hey, I'm in the same position as you. Got an update a few months ago that the successful applicants in early 2020 have been "auto archived" so they're trying to figure out what stage of the process we got to.

They told me to re register my email to the careers website. Dm me if you wanna chat about it.

[ShamrockF]

Ad is online now for external recruitment. Requires minimum of 500 hours or 100 sectors on a Zero Flight Time qualifying aircraft.

[GetTheQRH]

Does anyone have any idea what the pay is? Also, is it DEP as 2-stripe regardless of previous hours?

[Busdriver01]

Does anyone have any idea what the pay is? Also, is it DEP as 2-stripe regardless of previous hours?

you join on Pay Point 1, 2 stripes regardless of experience unless its a specific DEC campaign (Euroflyer, for example, in which case its PP1 still but on command scale).

PP1 DEP (FO) is £63k plus flight pay. Pay negotiations ongoing currently.

EDIT: thats for LHR. if you accept an offer for euroflyer pp1 is about 49k plus allowances, total abut 60k. LHR total is about 80k - maybe more if you fly lots.

[Treestripe]

Hi so I was in the recruitment holdpool Jan 2020 no offer of a start.

Did anyone receive anything from them recent email wise? I haven’t….

just seen the external recruitment so does that mean we have to re-apply I guess?

cheers

[The Cleaner]

Nothing on BA website???

[Alrosa]

Well I got my prediction about no recruitment until next year completely wrong !

Sadly those caught up in the middle of stages 1, 2 or 3 of the assessment before it all went to the wall will have to go through it again, but will be given priority for assessment dates.

[kendrick47247]

Sadly those caught up in the middle of stages 1, 2 or 3 of the assessment before it all went to the wall will have to go through it again, but will be given priority for assessment dates.

Where have you got that information from?

[SkyRocket10]

Best guess at the moment is that most recruitment will be for euroflyer LGW, with the small remainder to LHR sh. Given the long list of unfrozen internal bids, any LH recruitment is very very unlikely (but never say never!) so plan on shorthaul with a 6yr engagement freeze and you won’t be disappointed. Worthy of note also is that anyone recruited to Gatwick will also be frozen at base for 6yrs. Transferring between bases on short haul is no longer an option as euroflyer will be on a different AOC.

Salary figures given for Gatwick are accurate, but any LHR figure is likely to be affected by the current delta deduction of circa 7.5% to basic salary for the foreseeable. This applies to all LHR pilots.

[Alrosa]

Where have you got that information from?

Email from recruitment sent today to all previous applicants still in the system and caught up mid-assessment.

[kendrick47247]

Email from recruitment sent today to all previous applicants still in the system and caught up mid-assessment.

Much appreciated.

All information on the posting refers to Heathrow, so nothing to do with euroflyer then?

[Alrosa]

Much appreciated.

All information on the posting refers to Heathrow, so nothing to do with euroflyer then?

Can’t answer that except to say that there’s a box to tick to say you’ll also take EF if offered.

[Jwscud]

The advantage potentially of accepting Euroflyer could be an earlier start date. Seniority being everything, take the first available offer was the old advice. That’s tempered by financial circumstances at LGW and the potential of a type change if the 737 rumours are true leading to a 6 year freeze just to move to Heathrow short haul if you so wish rather than the old-fashioned ability to move bases after a year.

[Treestripe]

Email from recruitment sent today to all previous applicants still in the system and caught up mid-assessment.
Interesting… so I had a conditional offer on the A320 but no start date so had finished the assessment stages but had no email or information since 2021. 🤨

[maxpeck]

Ad is online now for external recruitment. Requires minimum of 500 hours or 100 sectors on a Zero Flight Time qualifying aircraft.

What is a ZFT qualifying aircraft? Is it only for TR pilots. I've got 6000 737 time.

Thanks

[Potatos_69]

Email from recruitment sent today to all previous applicants still in the system and caught up mid-assessment.

I didn't receive anything, although it looked like my account lapsed while swimming...

Was this just for guys going through the assessments or for people who passed and were swimming in the pool as well?

I will still be chucking another application in but would love a touch more clarity and would prefer not to bother Lucy and recruitment team for nothing if info has already come out...

[Alrosa]

I didn't receive anything, although it looked like my account lapsed while swimming...

Was this just for guys going through the assessments or for people who passed and were swimming in the pool as well?

I will still be chucking another application in but would love a touch more clarity and would prefer not to bother Lucy and recruitment team for nothing if info has already come out...

The email I saw was aimed at those caught up mid-assessment i.e. at stages 1, 2 or 3 rather than those who had passed the entire process.

I understand you don’t want to bother recruitment, but at the end of the day there is now a live campaign underway, so they should be expecting queries, and able to get back to you.

[thetimesreader84]

What is a ZFT qualifying aircraft? Is it only for TR pilots. I've got 6000 737 time.

Thanks
Youll be fine.

could be wrong (don't have manuals to hand) but it's a CS-25 aircraft, 10t MTOW or 19 seats or more.

[BAreject]

The advantage potentially of accepting Euroflyer could be an earlier start date. Seniority being everything, take the first available offer was the old advice. That’s tempered by financial circumstances at LGW and the potential of a type change if the 737 rumours are true leading to a 6 year freeze just to move to Heathrow short haul if you so wish rather than the old-fashioned ability to move bases after a year.

737's are not going to Gatwick. They're linked to the Europa acquisition.

[maxpeck]

Youll be fine.

could be wrong (don't have manuals to hand) but it's a CS-25 aircraft, 10t MTOW or 19 seats or more.
Thanks very much! Tried to find it online but didn't have much luck.

[Potatos_69]

The advantage potentially of accepting Euroflyer could be an earlier start date. Seniority being everything, take the first available offer was the old advice. That’s tempered by financial circumstances at LGW and the potential of a type change if the 737 rumours are true leading to a 6 year freeze just to move to Heathrow short haul if you so wish rather than the old-fashioned ability to move bases after a year.

This is my current issue. EF is sadly a fairly decent paycut for me. I would take mainline in an instant, but another paycut while still trying to recover from covid financially messing us around is a hard pill to swallow at this stage...

[Jwscud]

737's are not going to Gatwick. They're linked to the Europa acquisition.

Do you have a source for that? I have no inside information, just adding up the state of the GATs and MIDs pre-COVID let alone after 2 years parked plus the pre-COVID plans for 737 MAX that were relatively well advanced, including agreeing a cabin spec with Boeing.

If I were trying to make money with a new startup, flying 5 hour sectors in 20 year old jets wouldn’t be how I’d like to do it.

[A320LGW]

Are you supposed to apply to both the EF and mainline openings or apply for your preferred option only?

[maxpeck]

I could only apply for one. Didn't let me do both so I assume you go with your preference.

[Alrosa]

I could only apply for one. Didn't let me do both so I assume you go with your preference.

Having said that, those that apply for mainline/LHR have the option of ticking a box to indicate they’d be open to an offer for EF!

[Chief Willy]

All vacancies will be on SH. LH will be heavily oversubscribed by internal bidders.

[Tay Cough]

Salary figures given for Gatwick are accurate, but any LHR figure is likely to be affected by the current delta deduction of circa 7.5% to basic salary for the foreseeable. This applies to all LHR pilots.

As things currently stand, this salary “Delta” is to remain in place until 2028. Caveat emptor.

[3Greens]

All vacancies will be on SH. LH will be heavily oversubscribed by internal bidders.

BA have often recruited straight onto LH. it’s annoying if you’re currently an internal bidder but there’s nothing in BLR or the MOA to prevent it.

[3Greens]

As things currently stand, this salary “Delta” is to remain in place until 2028. Caveat emptor.

not correct. It’s much much longer than that. The 2028 was the rejected “deal”. Now it’s tens of years rather than 6.

[Chief Willy]

BA have often recruited straight onto LH. it’s annoying if you’re currently an internal bidder but there’s nothing in BLR or the MOA to prevent it.

I am well aware of that. But this year all external vacancies are planned to A320. Nearly the entire P32L list is free to bid, and 80% of them want to go longhaul.

[thetimesreader84]

I am well aware of that. But this year all external vacancies are planned to A320. Nearly the entire P32L list is free to bid, and 80% of them want to go longhaul.

The other 20% want to go to Jet2!

[no sponsor]

Personally the recruiting manager has form on recruiting directly into LH as no one wants to join BA SH as it is such an awful lifestyle. The manager ignores agreements and just seems to do what he wants. This is obviously all done with the acceptance of BA senior managers.

life in BA is pretty dire at the moment. Rostering is a nightmare. Everyone seems to be on endless reserves. No one answers the phones or responds to the ridiculous Pilot Comms Portal. But we do get some patronising emails from our so called managers claiming they know how tough it is.

If you do join get onto the 787/350 as these are the golden high efficiency fleets and if you are lucky you’ll get given a course 6 months down the line while others in the company are kicked out!! There’s is recession coming!!)

Honestly BA it just a brutal awful company. Why anyone would join is beyond me.

[Globally Challenged]

Honestly BA it just a brutal awful company. Why anyone would join is beyond me.

Perhaps it’s because it’s sounds so much more exotic when telling everyone (frequently without being asked) at the local pub / golf club etc that you are a Nigel / Nigella 😎😜

[G SXTY]

Just to reinforce the above posts…

As things stand, anyone joining right now is signing up to years of open-ended and variable pay cuts. Even if you can find our current pay scales (and good luck with that, because I can’t) they are meaningless: the ‘Delta’ that BA imposed during Covid - ‘negotiating’ with a gun held to BALPA’s head - means we are still paying for the privilege of having our industrial agreements upheld. Nobody knows for how long and how much, and despite endless and meaningless soothing messages from management, there’s no sign of it changing. Be sure to ask them about Delta at your interview.

I’ve worked for several airlines and some other big companies (much bigger than BA) before getting into aviation. The management culture here is truly toxic, and worse than anywhere I’ve ever experienced.

[Whitemonk Returns]

I am glad the above posters are sharing the truth to any potential joiners from within the airline. I said much the same in the ACMI thread and got lambasted as a Fanboy of Yorkshire Airlines but the reality is you would have to be nuts to leave a decent airline job to go to BA these days. TP guys will go obviously if given the chance as its a step up but who the hell would volunteer for SH BA on those payscales and live anywhere near London for the next 6 years or whatever, you'd really have to be short on options, and sense

[Seosan]

life in BA is pretty dire at the moment. Rostering is a nightmare. Everyone seems to be on endless reserves.

Serious question; may I ask what’s so bad with the rostering at the moment? I work for a large A320 operator in Europe and across this whole summer have had nothing but short notice changes, changes on report, standbys galore, liberal use of discretion etc. I always presumed BA was a more stable ship. Is it just the most junior on the list getting these reserve blocks?

Edit: if you have any LHR rosters you’re willing to share please DM me

[White Van Driver]

Serious question; may I ask what’s so bad with the rostering at the moment? I work for a large A320 operator in Europe and across this whole summer have had nothing but short notice changes, changes on report, standbys galore, liberal use of discretion etc. I always presumed BA was a more stable ship. Is it just the most junior on the list getting these reserve blocks?

BA rostering is still very stable once the roster is published. SH is being affected by large numbers of cancellations this summer though.
I think what the above are complaining about is
1) the new(ish) rostering preferences system which is not giving as optimum outputs as it had previously - even the very top pilots who should be able to nearly write their own rosters, are now having what they've asked for denied, and instead assigned trips they don't want over days they want off. Admittedly the system has some funny quirks which I can't explain. I'm very junior and don't ask for much, I seem to get about half of what I've requested.
2) the new short (14 day) reserve periods which the company is making the most of, resulting in a reserve period every month for many pilots. This must be very frustrating particularly for commuters and those with responsibilities that need to be planned in advance. But if you don't really mind reserve it's less of an issue.

hopefully you'll get a detailed response from someone at the SH coalface (I'm LH) but I don't see it as bad as some of those who posted above

[thetimesreader84]

I think White Van Driver covered the main points. Just to add, on SH it's a 6 day reserve not 14 (which means it's possible to be assigned 2 in a month - rare, but it has happened). One of the main gripes is the seniority gradient for roster bidding on short haul. Maybe it's a bit more equitable on your LH fleet, but people at the top of P32 are writing their rosters, and anyone >40% seniority can guarantee pretty much every weekend off. The flip side is if you're <40%, you'll get pretty much no weekends off - the divide (at least going by ibid) is that sharp. Given most people originally bid SH for lifestyle reasons (ability to be home, no jetlag etc) it's a real issue. It's am issue no-one seems to want to try and solve, when I raised it with the union I was (to paraphrase) told "it's always been like this for junior pilots, what do you expect".

Can't say for all fleets but SH is not a nice place to be right now.

[3Greens]

I think White Van Driver covered the main points. Just to add, on SH it's a 6 day reserve not 14 (which means it's possible to be assigned 2 in a month - rare, but it has happened). One of the main gripes is the seniority gradient for roster bidding on short haul. Maybe it's a bit more equitable on your LH fleet, but people at the top of P32 are writing their rosters, and anyone >40% seniority can guarantee pretty much every weekend off. The flip side is if you're <40%, you'll get pretty much no weekends off - the divide (at least going by ibid) is that sharp. Given most people originally bid SH for lifestyle reasons (ability to be home, no jetlag etc) it's a real issue. It's am issue no-one seems to want to try and solve, when I raised it with the union I was (to paraphrase) told "it's always been like this for junior pilots, what do you expect".

Can't say for all fleets but SH is not a nice place to be right now.
just to be correct. You CANNOT be ASSIGNED two SRP in one month.

[Alrosa]

It’s worth bearing in mind that there will be individuals applying to the current BA campaign that would be over the moon to be offered BA SH, despite the current issues outlined above - and that is simply because BA SH is FAR from the worst option out there.

There are eligible applicants currently working for some truly atrocious European operators out there with terrible rosters, abusive management and less than professional operating behaviour being exhibited on the flightdeck. This is no exaggeration, and it is happening in Europe.

I’m not here to defend BA management or BALPA or whoever else - or wave the BA flag, and tell everyone how amazing BA is, or how much better BA is than Virgin, TUI or anyone else….all of that is very much dependent on your individual circumstances, and what you want out of a flying career - but there will be plenty of applicants for whom BA SH would represent a MASSIVE improvement.

If you can’t understand that, consider yourself very fortunate. I speak from experience. BA is not what it was, I agree with that - but there are some truly shocking operators out there…

[Check Airman]

Just to reinforce the above posts…

As things stand, anyone joining right now is signing up to years of open-ended and variable pay cuts. Even if you can find our current pay scales (and good luck with that, because I can’t) they are meaningless: the ‘Delta’ that BA imposed during Covid - ‘negotiating’ with a gun held to BALPA’s head - means we are still paying for the privilege of having our industrial agreements upheld. Nobody knows for how long and how much, and despite endless and meaningless soothing messages from management, there’s no sign of it changing. Be sure to ask them about Delta at your interview.

I’ve worked for several airlines and some other big companies (much bigger than BA) before getting into aviation. The management culture here is truly toxic, and worse than anywhere I’ve ever experienced.

As an outsider, why is it so difficult to find your pay scales? On this side of the pond they’re all but publicly available.

The secrecy (if that’s the right word) makes it’s pretty difficult to make an informed decision when comparing companies.

[G SXTY]

Quite simply, the published pay scales are out of date. They are dated 1st Jan 2018, which pre-dates the 2019 strike and subsequent settlement, and BA has not bothered to update them since.

On top of that, all BA pilots are subject to a “Delta” pay deduction; in simple terms it is the company charging us for keeping senior (expensive) pilots rather than junior (cheaper) ones when Covid hit. They are making us pay to have a seniority system. As is the BA way, the formula used to calculate the “Delta” is so complicated that no-one understands it (and the union disputes BA’s numbers in any case) and there is no end date to the pay deductions.

Therefore:
Current pay scales are not published anywhere official, and we are left to guess what we should be earning,
Pay is subject to ongoing variable deductions.
No-one knows when the pay deductions will end.

[Check Airman]

Thanks for the insight. That's certainly a different way of doing things. As BALPA will have a say in negotiating any new pay scales, would they not be able to provide accurate pay data to the membership? Isn't the salary the absolute minimum you need to know before applying for a job?

[White Van Driver]

As an outsider, why is it so difficult to find your pay scales? On this side of the pond they’re all but publicly available.

The secrecy (if that’s the right word) makes it’s pretty difficult to make an informed decision when comparing companies.

G-SXTY has hit the nail on the head, but with that I can shed at least some (unashamedly complicated!) light on the subject.

DEP starting salary £63,342. Increases more-or-less linearly on 34 year scale to £141,377 (LH) £120,027 (SH).
Captain salary is 1.33xFO salary.
PLUS flight pay approx £11/hr (block hours)
PLUS allowances £4.08/hr away from base (HMRC taxes the majority)
PLUS untaxable allowance £10/day per overseas night.

MINUS covid pay cut ("delta") of 4.1% currently, predicted to increase to 10% pay cut in 2023. This will then slowly decrease over literally decades.

Company and union are currently in discussions over pay. We are also owed a 4% raise negotiated pre-covid but accepted that to be delayed from 2020 till 2023.

Pension is defined contribution scheme, highest rate 6% employee, 15% employer, on the basic salary.

[Potatos_69]

Just to reinforce the above posts…

As things stand, anyone joining right now is signing up to years of open-ended and variable pay cuts. Even if you can find our current pay scales (and good luck with that, because I can’t) they are meaningless: the ‘Delta’ that BA imposed during Covid - ‘negotiating’ with a gun held to BALPA’s head - means we are still paying for the privilege of having our industrial agreements upheld. Nobody knows for how long and how much, and despite endless and meaningless soothing messages from management, there’s no sign of it changing. Be sure to ask them about Delta at your interview.

I’ve worked for several airlines and some other big companies (much bigger than BA) before getting into aviation. The management culture here is truly toxic, and worse than anywhere I’ve ever experienced.

Come try the Pink and you will truly understand what a toxic management culture is.

Don't get me wrong BA certainly has its issues, I'm not trying to minimize yours. But it is still a damn sight better than some places still even with all its problems...

[IslandHoppa]

For those of you in this thread who were part way through the assessment stage. On the email that was sent last week did you just complete the form or both the form and re apply?

[Northern Monkey]

It’s worth bearing in mind that there will be individuals applying to the current BA campaign that would be over the moon to be offered BA SH, despite the current issues outlined above - and that is simply because BA SH is FAR from the worst option out there.

There are eligible applicants currently working for some truly atrocious European operators out there with terrible rosters, abusive management and less than professional operating behaviour being exhibited on the flightdeck. This is no exaggeration, and it is happening in Europe.

I’m not here to defend BA management or BALPA or whoever else - or wave the BA flag, and tell everyone how amazing BA is, or how much better BA is than Virgin, TUI or anyone else….all of that is very much dependent on your individual circumstances, and what you want out of a flying career - but there will be plenty of applicants for whom BA SH would represent a MASSIVE improvement.

If you can’t understand that, consider yourself very fortunate. I speak from experience. BA is not what it was, I agree with that - but there are some truly shocking operators out there…

If they were European operators then will said pilots have the right to live & work in the UK? Some doubtless will. But there is a big difference with this recruitment campaign over previous ones. This time you need the right to live & work in the UK, which most Europeans no longer have.

[Alrosa]

If they were European operators then will said pilots have the right to live & work in the UK? Some doubtless will. But there is a big difference with this recruitment campaign over previous ones. This time you need the right to live & work in the UK, which most Europeans no longer have.

Good question, answer some but not many - as you’ve pointed out. There are some Brits working for cargo and ACMI overseas who may feel BA is definitely worth a punt, as it can’t be any worse than where they are…

I should have worded the previous post better - I was trying to put across the general point that BA is not what it once was and many have the right to feel aggrieved at what happened there over the last 2 years ; but for some people, BA is still a good opportunity.

Dependent on circumstances, preferences and priorities, it might even be a better opportunity than some of the other options available. For others it won’t be - fair enough.

[Check Airman]

G-SXTY has hit the nail on the head, but with that I can shed at least some (unashamedly complicated!) light on the subject.

DEP starting salary £63,342. Increases more-or-less linearly on 34 year scale to £141,377 (LH) £120,027 (SH).
Captain salary is 1.33xFO salary.
PLUS flight pay approx £11/hr (block hours)
PLUS allowances £4.08/hr away from base (HMRC taxes the majority)
PLUS untaxable allowance £10/day per overseas night.

MINUS covid pay cut ("delta") of 4.1% currently, predicted to increase to 10% pay cut in 2023. This will then slowly decrease over literally decades.

Company and union are currently in discussions over pay. We are also owed a 4% raise negotiated pre-covid but accepted that to be delayed from 2020 till 2023.

Pension is defined contribution scheme, highest rate 6% employee, 15% employer, on the basic salary.

Thanks for those details. So a 34 year LH FO would make 141k plus flight pay?

[White Van Driver]

Thanks for those details. So a 34 year LH FO would make 141k plus flight pay?
yes.
Though it would be exceedingly difficult to achieve that, as 34 years is a very long time to spend as an FO. And to progress past a certain point you need to bid for "all LHR command positions" - in the old 24pp contract that was pp18. No idea what it becomes under the 34pp contract.

[Tay Cough]

It’s worth pointing out that the pay discussions in question have seemingly just fallen apart.

It’s worth questioning why pretty much every other major airline is increasing pilot salaries while BA is still trying to reduce them.

[White Van Driver]

It’s worth pointing out that the pay discussions in question have seemingly just fallen apart.


I haven't seen this? Is that inside info?

[Northern Monkey]

Good question, answer some but not many - as you’ve pointed out. There are some Brits working for cargo and ACMI overseas who may feel BA is definitely worth a punt, as it can’t be any worse than where they are…

I should have worded the previous post better - I was trying to put across the general point that BA is not what it once was and many have the right to feel aggrieved at what happened there over the last 2 years ; but for some people, BA is still a good opportunity.

Dependent on circumstances, preferences and priorities, it might even be a better opportunity than some of the other options available. For others it won’t be - fair enough.

It’s true that for some people BA remains a good opportunity. I think the pool of people for which that is true is, and has been for some time, reducing. The principle reason for this (again in my view) is the inexplicable management culture at BA which sees senior management determined to constantly be at war with their own staff. This has resulted in a material reduction in terms & conditions & quality of life at BA with no sign of any improvement on the horizon. For whatever reason, the relationship is completely broken.

If you look at some of the places BA has historically recruited the majority of their experienced new first officers - easyjet, Ryanair, jet2 - it is far from clear to me that a move from any of these three places to BA makes any kind of sense anymore. Jet2 in particular stands in stark contrast to BA at the moment in terms of how they are treating their staff, and actually I’m aware of several people hoping to leave BA to go there in the near future.

If I was at one of the operators you describe, BA would not be my first choice at the moment, and choice - subject to your qualifications and hours - does exist.

[Seosan]

It’s worth questioning why pretty much every other major airline is increasing pilot salaries while BA is still trying to reduce them.

EZY are no better. Every single pay talk ends up in FTA level 2 before miraculously being resolved at two minutes to midnight. Our FOs get over 20k less than PP1 FO on a forced winter PT contract so variable pay is practically non-existent for 4-5 months. All this whilst still paying bonkers rent prices if you choose to live close to Gatwick in Brighton, Horsham etc. You can start to see the appeal on paper even if the reality is operationally worse.

No airline with shareholders is out to help the pilots, FAs or any other Tom, Dick or Harry combat inflation or improve their QOL. It’s all about the bottom line. Even J2 with their wonderful pay rises given by the hand of God himself still work in an airline who hate unionised workers and give out these perks in order to stem BALPA membership. Then again with BA BALPA you may be better off without them!

[Alrosa]

It’s true that for some people BA remains a good opportunity. I think the pool of people for which that is true is, and has been for some time, reducing. The principle reason for this (again in my view) is the inexplicable management culture at BA which sees senior management determined to constantly be at war with their own staff. This has resulted in a material reduction in terms & conditions & quality of life at BA with no sign of any improvement on the horizon. For whatever reason, the relationship is completely broken.

If you look at some of the places BA has historically recruited the majority of their experienced new first officers - easyjet, Ryanair, jet2 - it is far from clear to me that a move from any of these three places to BA makes any kind of sense anymore. Jet2 in particular stands in stark contrast to BA at the moment in terms of how they are treating their staff, and actually I’m aware of several people hoping to leave BA to go there in the near future.

If I was at one of the operators you describe, BA would not be my first choice at the moment, and choice - subject to your qualifications and hours - does exist.

Fair enough. Can I ask why BALPA hasn’t done more to look after its members’ interests at BA ? Or perhaps that might open a can of worms.

The picture I’m getting is of BA management doing whatever they want and BALPA saying ‘ok’ ….happy to be corrected!

[Pilot lad]

For those of you in this thread who were part way through the assessment stage. On the email that was sent last week did you just complete the form or both the form and re apply?

You need to do the form and also apply for either positions advertised.

[IslandHoppa]

You need to do the form and also apply for either positions advertised.

Brilliant thanks!

Will be good if we all keep this thread updated when we hear back etc!

[Lordflasheart]

...
" ... the inexplicable management culture at BA which sees senior management determined to constantly be at war with their own staff. "

"The picture I’m getting is of BA management doing whatever they want and BALPA saying ‘ok’ ... "

I'm told .... the CEO no longer answers even serious emails from his employees questioning frequent failures of the operation - passes them to a middle-manager for fob-off replies. The discredited COO is on his way back to Engineering. The new saviour COO doesn't take post until October. Several different airlines (mostly from Spain) are contracted to fly the BA summer services that BA can't manage and IT is apparently now being masterminded by IAG.

As for pay, they're trying to ignore BALPA and perpetuate a significant covid pay cut - see my concurrent thread - https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/647970-british-airways-delta-pay-cut.html - Some fascinating replies, thank you. Now it's apparently in the Telegraph.

If you ever wonder about the meaning of 'dysfunctional' sit down with a couple of Tubby Linton's cold 'uns and read this recent Employment Tribunal Judgment - sent to me by a well-wisher. Page 1 will tell you all you need to know.

https://www.gov.uk/employment-tribunal-decisions/mr-m-osborne-v-british-airways-plc-3301841-slash-2020

Shocking - I tell you ! Utterly shocking !!

LFH

[Northern Monkey]

Fair enough. Can I ask why BALPA hasn’t done more to look after its members’ interests at BA ? Or perhaps that might open a can of worms.

The picture I’m getting is of BA management doing whatever they want and BALPA saying ‘ok’ ….happy to be corrected!

First off, the last two years has seen BALPA have to say “OK” to some things we would never normally countenance. No one knew how this was all going to play out and, quite rightly, the focus at the beginning of the pandemic during great uncertainty was the preservation of members jobs.

The bigger question and one we don’t really know the answer to is why the 2019 strike was called off, seemingly in the middle of the dispute and with little to show for it. Only a handful of people currently know the answer to this and no one is talking.

I do have some sympathy with balpa. People seem to believe that if they just asked for stuff BA would hand it over. Ultimately any meaningful concessions from BA rely on one of two things. Forget woolly talk of “morale” or “loyalty” or “doing the right thing”. These things are worth nothing to BA. The first is market forces, if they cannot recruit sufficient people - we shall see how the new campaign goes. Second would be successful strike action, or the threat of it, changing their calculus somehow. After 2019 I can understand why some were not keen to rush down this path. Make no mistake though, with other unions now seeing high single digit pay rises we are on the fast track to confrontation. This time around I don’t think its a fight BALPA can afford to lose.

[Sawdust]

EZY are no better. Every single pay talk ends up in FTA level 2 before miraculously being resolved at two minutes to midnight. Our FOs get over 20k less than PP1 FO on a forced winter PT contract so variable pay is practically non-existent for 4-5 months. All this whilst still paying bonkers rent prices if you choose to live close to Gatwick in Brighton, Horsham etc. You can start to see the appeal on paper even if the reality is operationally worse.

No airline with shareholders is out to help the pilots, FAs or any other Tom, Dick or Harry combat inflation or improve their QOL. It’s all about the bottom line. Even J2 with their wonderful pay rises given by the hand of God himself still work in an airline who hate unionised workers and give out these perks in order to stem BALPA membership. Then again with BA BALPA you may be better off without them!

Genuinely sorry you feel that way about EZY. Personally I think the name fits pretty well, because even at LGW I think we’ve got it pretty good. I’ve rarely felt tired/fatigued and don’t seem to pass 70 hours a month, even before C-19 during summer. The pay initially isn’t great I’ll agree, but a command in 6 years and being on £135k is not the worst deal. In the two years before COVID I did 680 and 645 hours respectively. Not bad for full time!

Being someone in the BA holdpool, I feel there are enough people ‘warning’ me of the current climate, not just on this thread but also in person. For all your sakes I hope you are able to resolve your disputes with the company, and be treated with the respect you all deserve. While it was once my ideal job, I don’t think I have thick enough skin to deal with the BS you guys are facing! Good luck.

[skyflyer101]

So for the ones who had to fill in the update info form for BA, after you fill in all your updates it said we have no further info on timescales etc. so back in limbo again. This campaign is 2023 and beyond and primarily A320. So this could well drag on into 2024 if the economy isn’t doing well and it doesn’t look like LH is going to happen and from what people are saying, SH doesn’t seem great at all :/

Can anyone inside ba comment on the need for LH recruitment? I can’t imagine fleets like the 787 are undercrewed atm, probably overcrewed/oversubscribed in fact :/

[Chief Willy]

So for the ones who had to fill in the update info form for BA, after you fill in all your updates it said we have no further info on timescales etc. so back in limbo again. This campaign is 2023 and beyond and primarily A320. So this could well drag on into 2024 if the economy isn’t doing well and it doesn’t look like LH is going to happen and from what people are saying, SH doesn’t seem great at all :/

Can anyone inside ba comment on the need for LH recruitment? I can’t imagine fleets like the 787 are undercrewed atm, probably overcrewed/oversubscribed in fact :/

It is likely there will be no LH recruitment as LH is so heavily oversubscribed by SH pilots who are free to bid. They get priority over DEPs. That being said there may be a small amount of LH DEP recruitment if training capacity limits are reached, but none is planned at this stage.

The 787 is currently overcrewed due delayed deliveries. The 787 and 350 will have demand in 2023 for more heads but will be so popular internally I’d be very surprised if DEPs got a sniff at those. The 777 and 380 fleets will need heads as pilots from those fleets move on to command and to the 787/350. As to whether or not DEPs get a sniff at 777/380 depends on how popular those fleets are internally. A 6 year freeze on a dieing fleet vulnerable to the next downturn will put a lot of people off internally as in BA redundancy is now done by fleet.

[skyflyer101]

Thanks chiefwilly, confirming what I suspected :/ is it a possibility that there are still people sitting in the existing hold pool beyond 2023 or is that very unlikely would you say?

[Chief Willy]

Thanks chiefwilly, confirming what I suspected :/ is it a possibility that there are still people sitting in the existing hold pool beyond 2023 or is that very unlikely would you say?

I gather the PRP pilots who want to return to BA will have done so by this year so 2023 should be PHP (not many) and DEPs.

[Capt. G L Walker]

The bigger question and one we don’t really know the answer to is why the 2019 strike was called off, seemingly in the middle of the dispute and with little to show for it. Only a handful of people currently know the answer to this and no one is talking.



Perhaps someone who was at Virgin in around 2012 will tell you what BALPA are capable of?

[Phantom4]

Does anyone know if they are using Boeing or Airbus sim for DEP assessment?

[smoggy68]

Has anyone in the PHP heard back from BA following the recent email re expression of interest in EF?
I wonder where those of us in the PHP stand now BA are recruiting direct entry.
I believe the php included cadets and tagged white tails not sure of numbers?
Any information would be greatly appreciated!

[kendrick47247]

Has anyone in the PHP heard back from BA following the recent email re expression of interest in EF?
I wonder where those of us in the PHP stand now BA are recruiting direct entry.
I believe the php included cadets and tagged white tails not sure of numbers?
Any information would be greatly appreciated!

(Some) TRd members of the PHP have been issued start dates and contracts.

There’s some confusion with members of the holdpool thinking they are PHP, this isn’t the case

[BAreject]

BA short-haul is full of ex ezy pilots.

If you're considering leaving ezy (or any other reputable airline in the UK!) this time round, you seriously need to think long and hard. You'd be leaving a stable secure outfit (that made no compulsory redundancies) to join BA at the bottom of the seniority list in an airline that has proven it will get rid of junior pilots with the click of a finger.

If you're leaving some dodgy ACMI/Mid East outfit and desperate to get back to the UK, then use BA as a stepping stone.

[Sick]

use BA as a stepping stone. are BA type ratings still unbonded?

[FACoff]

As a previously orange, now BA short haul pilot I feel duty-bound to chime in and concur with the above warnings. easyJet may have its gripes but do not fall into the greener grass trap as I did, nor for that matter any of the absolute garbage you may read in the job adverts about them "listening and caring", or switching fleet "when it suits your career" (read: when and IF it suits BA).
The harsh reality is that JSS will decimate your lifestyle, you'll have a perpetual basic pay cut of anywhere between 4 and 10% per month (but they won't tell you until the day before payday), and you'll likely find yourself participating in industrial action in the not-too-distant future. All with now markedly less job security.

I wholeheartedly agree with the above - if you need to return to the UK, go for it. If you're in a half decent outfit already, then you'll be in for a shock.

[sudden twang]

Is that right about unfrozen pilots have a right to a fleet move ahead of DEPs ?
and is it redundancy by fleet now?
I suspect BA will leave the option of LH DEP open to tempt applicants if NV LH they’ll offer SH in the hope some will take it.

[wiggy]

Is that right about unfrozen pilots have a right to a fleet move ahead of DEPs ?
and is it redundancy by fleet now?
I suspect BA will leave the option of LH DEP open to tempt applicants if NV LH they’ll offer SH in the hope some will take it.

If you haven't already then you might want to look at this thread:

https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/647970-british-airways-delta-pay-cut.html

and in particular the posts by the likes of Twosugars..

I was at BA when it hit the fan just over two years ago and the opinion was the company very very much wanted redundancy by fleet. They didn't quite get that. Whilst BALPA had it's critics over their part of how some of it was handled I think they did well to avoid the whole 744 pilot force being given the bullet....

If there's a next time around who knows what will happen but the intent of management was pretty clear.

[Chief Willy]

Is that right about unfrozen pilots have a right to a fleet move ahead of DEPs ?
and is it redundancy by fleet now?
I suspect BA will leave the option of LH DEP open to tempt applicants if NV LH they’ll offer SH in the hope some will take it.

Yes it is “right”. Whether or not BA stick to their own rules though is anyone’s guess.

BA tried to make the 747 and LGW pilots all redundant. BALPA changed it and pilots are paying for it via the “delta”. But ultimately BA have set a precedent for redundancy by fleet. This might make the 777 and 380 less popular for internal moves, so yes it is possible that there will be LH DEP recruitment to those fleets. I can’t see DEPs to the 787 and 350 but then again, this is BA and they tend to do what they want.

[sudden twang]

Ah thank you Chief and Wiggy.
sounds like buyer beware

[kendrick47247]

Does this mean there is another holdpool (other than PRP & PHP)?
I have been led to believe I was in the PHP along with cadets and other tagged but maybe this is not the case. I’m finding it difficult to get information from BA.

Are you a cadet/tagged yourself?

[Seosan]

Potentially another naïve question from me but a few Nigels in here have provided some great answers so far so here goes:

I’m reading a lot about the toxic management/culture within BA. Now, I can only go on my own experience at my current outfit, but aside from being disappointed in the decision-making at executive level on some things as a whole, I think I’ve probably had one firm interaction with pilot management in the last four years. Part of the beauty of flying is shutting the aircraft door behind you and switching off, and as long as the folks you’re flying with are good sorts you have a nice day out. Is BA management/ops run differently? Are you constantly in contact with your line managers/senior mgmt to a point where their ethos on how to run an airline gets in the way?

[White Van Driver]

Potentially another naïve question from me but a few Nigels in here have provided some great answers so far so here goes:

I’m reading a lot about the toxic management/culture within BA. Now, I can only go on my own experience at my current outfit, but aside from being disappointed in the decision-making at executive level on some things as a whole, I think I’ve probably had one firm interaction with pilot management in the last four years. Part of the beauty of flying is shutting the aircraft door behind you and switching off, and as long as the folks you’re flying with are good sorts you have a nice day out. Is BA management/ops run differently? Are you constantly in contact with your line managers/senior mgmt to a point where their ethos on how to run an airline gets in the way?

my experience at BA is similar to yours. I've not had a single interaction with management that was actually management related. Day-to-day you are left alone to get the job done. So long as you aren't constantly cocking everything up you won't hear from anyone.

The daily frustrations are more related to the way the different departments are seemingly under resourced making it impossible to deliver the service that we would like to give the passengers. Despite our best efforts, it's far too often that something out of our control thwarts the plan and we are apologising again.
As a really common example, we will arrive on time only to have our stand occupied for half an hour, then another 10 minute wait to get the stand guidance switched on. So frustrating to be burning huge amounts of fuel and watching dozens of passengers miss their connections because of some invisible upstream problems that we don't really understand. Oh and then there will be too few wheelchairs and no one around to get more, leaving us waiting with the pax on board, again apologising.

[Seosan]

As a really common example, we will arrive on time only to have our stand occupied for half an hour, then another 10 minute wait to get the stand guidance switched on. So frustrating to be burning huge amounts of fuel and watching dozens of passengers miss their connections because of some invisible upstream problems that we don't really understand. Oh and then there will be too few wheelchairs and no one around to get more, leaving us waiting with the pax on board, again apologising.

All sounds very familiar!

[Globally Challenged]

my experience at BA is similar to yours. I've not had a single interaction with management that was actually management related. Day-to-day you are left alone to get the job done. So long as you aren't constantly cocking everything up you won't hear from anyone.

The daily frustrations are more related to the way the different departments are seemingly under resourced making it impossible to deliver the service that we would like to give the passengers. Despite our best efforts, it's far too often that something out of our control thwarts the plan and we are apologising again.
As a really common example, we will arrive on time only to have our stand occupied for half an hour, then another 10 minute wait to get the stand guidance switched on. So frustrating to be burning huge amounts of fuel and watching dozens of passengers miss their connections because of some invisible upstream problems that we don't really understand. Oh and then there will be too few wheelchairs and no one around to get more, leaving us waiting with the pax on board, again apologising.

Are those not airport issues rather than airline?

I had the same issue with Swiss at the weekend landing at T2 and we were on time departure and flight duration was dead on the flight plan (as per Aerobrief)

[Die By Wire]

Aircraft operate really well as long as they never go near an airport.

[White Van Driver]

Aircraft operate really well as long as they never go near an airport.
Hahaha brilliant 😆

I guess the question is more "What is it like working for BA" than "What operational issues are BA's fault".

Yes some of the issues are out of BA's control, but some definitely are. And some are somewhere inbetween.... e.g. bringing in the lowest cost subcontractor - ok technically the issue might be their fault but what after you have voluntarily given that remit away from your direct control, and to a third party highly motivated to drive down cost, I think you share some responsibility.

[Busdriver01]

Does this mean there is another holdpool (other than PRP & PHP)?
I have been led to believe I was in the PHP along with cadets and other tagged but maybe this is not the case. I’m finding it difficult to get information from BA.

PRP: Priority Return Pool - those actually made redundant

PHP: Priority Hold Pool - those who had a start date, gave in their 3 months, but were binned by BA before they could actually start so technically not returning.

“Hold Pool” or “pilot hold pool” : the original, pre-covid hold pool everyone went to upon passing their sim assessment.

hopefully with those definitions you can work out which group you were in! (Caveat, I could be wrong with how cadets/tagged cadets fit into all that so take with a pinch of salt)

PRP is done (a few holding out for long haul offers but SH offers have been made), PHP I believe is mostly all done too, but may not quite be finished. I there were only about 30 in that group I believe.

heard mixed things about the regular hold pool as to whether they’re being looked at ahead of the new recruitment drive for next summer, so hopefully someone else has that info!

[Treestripe]

I’m in the regular hold pool. I had an email update to say as I completed all stages I don’t need to reapply for this recruitment drive, just to update some details.

Havent had any other information the email just said to fill in the form and we hope to have further information soon.

In the process of converting back to CAA license just in case it’s sooner than expected but really not sure

[Die By Wire]

“PRP is done (a few holding out for long haul offers but SH offers have been made), PHP I believe is mostly all done too, but may not quite be finished. I there were only about 30 in that group.”

Errr…. I don’t think so? I’m in the PRP and haven’t been offered anything yet, LH or SH. Just getting email updates of intentions to offer something shortly and looking forward to being welcomed back in the coming months.

[Busdriver01]

“PRP is done (a few holding out for long haul offers but SH offers have been made), PHP I believe is mostly all done too, but may not quite be finished. I there were only about 30 in that group.”

Errr…. I don’t think so? I’m in the PRP and haven’t been offered anything yet, LH or SH. Just getting email updates of intentions to offer something shortly and looking forward to being welcomed back in the coming months.

Gosh, I had bad info then! I was sure the last of the prp had received a date. Guess that means PHP also not been touched either then.

[Jwscud]

Everyone has been offered the opportunity to go to LGW. For good reason, many have elected not to take that offer up. I believe offers have been made to those in the PHP but only for LGW positions declined by others.

[kendrick47247]

Gosh, I had bad info then! I was sure the last of the prp had received a date. Guess that means PHP also not been touched either then.

(Some) TR’d in the PHP have been offered EF and have start dates/contracts.

The PHP is larger than just 30.

There is nothing even hinted about people in the existing holdpool being mixed with the current recruitment campaign; quite the opposite in fact, they’ve been told that others will not be recruited before them.

No info on how or where cadets are placed, apologies.

[skyflyer101]

When people say recruitment drive for next summer do they mean the recruitment stages / campaign during next summer OR are we talking recruitment drive pre Easter for dates starting next summer?

Also it correct to say that absolutely no one has been offered LH courses?

I suppose there’s no way people in the regular hold pool will be offered LH before a PRP or a PHP person right?

Any update on the delayed 787s?

[smoggy68]

When people say recruitment drive for next summer do they mean the recruitment stages / campaign during next summer OR are we talking recruitment drive pre Easter for dates starting next summer?

Also it correct to say that absolutely no one has been offered LH courses?

I suppose there’s no way people in the regular hold pool will be offered LH before a PRP or a PHP person right?

Any update on the delayed 787s?

Have you been able to get any idea from BA of numbers waiting in the holdpool?

[thetimesreader84]

Any update on the delayed 787s?

Apparently BA's jets have been moved out of storage to the boeing plant for rework before delivery late Autumn. 787 is currently overcrewed and very probably over subscribed with internal bidders.

[Chief Willy]

When people say recruitment drive for next summer do they mean the recruitment stages / campaign during next summer OR are we talking recruitment drive pre Easter for dates starting next summer?

Also it correct to say that absolutely no one has been offered LH courses?

I suppose there’s no way people in the regular hold pool will be offered LH before a PRP or a PHP person right?

Any update on the delayed 787s?

As has been said before, its possible but unlikely anyone will be offered LH from this round and extremely unlikely the 787, but then stranger things have happened. This is the recruitment round for next summer as the lead time (advert, application, interviews, job offers, notice periods etc) come up to around 8+ months in reality.

If you join just be prepared for junior SH life. Its not actually all that bad, there are some brilliant nightstops and with a huge varied route network the flying is challenging and rewarding. Whilst pay is a “current theme” there are much worse places out there and BA’s pension contributions are pretty good by modern standards. You are fed and watered onboard and there are various corporate perks too. The career path still eventually offers you longhaul or a shorthaul command if that’s the path you want to go down.

[skyflyer101]

Thanks Chief Willy,

so by that logic, if the new campaign recruits are expected to have actual start dates in Summer next year, it can be assumed that the entire PRP, PHP, and current hold pool will be completed emptied and everyone in those 3 categories will have been offered a job in some form be it SH or LH for start dates BEFORE summer?

[Chief Willy]

Thanks Chief Willy,

so by that logic, if the new campaign recruits are expected to have actual start dates in Summer next year, it can be assumed that the entire PRP, PHP, and current hold pool will be completed emptied and everyone in those 3 categories will have been offered a job in some form be it SH or LH for start dates BEFORE summer?

I’d have thought so, yes. But then this is all subject to world events etc. If you want to apply I’d go for it, don’t be too put off by the negatives. I honestly believe there are no really good pilot jobs out there any more.

[A320LGW]

I've 2 questions about the application process I'd be grateful if people could answer:

Does anyone know when we can expect to hear an answer to our application and when assessment days are expected?

What simulator is the assessment going to be in? I believe it was 747 or 767 in the past though I presume those sims have been removed ..

Cheers

[skyflyer101]

Thanks Chief Willy! I'm sitting in the hold pool wondering when/if there'll be a call

[skyflyer101]

Apparently BA's jets have been moved out of storage to the boeing plant for rework before delivery late Autumn. 787 is currently overcrewed and very probably over subscribed with internal bidders.

When people talk about internal bidders and movements internally, when do these movements actually happen? Is there a set date during the year or is it on a rolling basis? For example, if it is the former then will there not be a date by which we will know what the actual internal movements were?

[thetimesreader84]

When people talk about internal bidders and movements internally, when do these movements actually happen? Is there a set date during the year or is it on a rolling basis? For example, if it is the former then will there not be a date by which we will know what the actual internal movements were?

Traditionally, there would be a bidding process in around June / July (known as "PRIAM" for... reasons). You'd submit what fleet / seat you'd want to move to. The computer would crunch the numbers vs the network plan (what aircraft are doing what routes, + deliveries - retirements etc) for the next year, and eventually there'd be output a big list with everyone's bid on it, and if you're successful next to your chosen bid would be "OK". OK bids would be allocated by seniority - start at number 1 and work down.

The actual courses would be allocated in seniority order. You'd officially get notified of your course in the monthly bid pack, so about 6 weeks notice of a start date.

Thats the basic version. Theres various edge cases (waifs, pay protection, forced / aspirational bids, MOP, etc etc) that arent really relevant for this discussion.

However there's been a change for this year. Instead of one big bid, which was usually hopelessly out of date by the time the courses started, we're having a rolling bid. The bidding process will be open for months, you can change your bid as and when, and at some indeterminate point (I've heard every 3 months, but that's not official) a snap shot of people's bids will be taken. Results will be published and courses allocated in a similar way to the above. There won't be one published list (GDPR), youll get your results individually, but I'm sure the number crunchers will provide some results to show what the lowest successful seniority bid for each fleet & seat was.

The bid is currently open. I haven't heard when it will close (the old PRIAM bid had a defined closing date).

[skyflyer101]

Thanks for the explanation.

So whenever it is that this "bid" closes will shed light to the recruitment team about where people exactly are going to be needed and when?

[Jwscud]

The 747 sim still exists, no knowledge of whether it’s planned for recruitment use though.

[thetimesreader84]

Thanks for the explanation.

So whenever it is that this "bid" closes will shed light to the recruitment team about where people exactly are going to be needed and when?

I think the recruitment team already have an idea of the rough numbers required for each fleet. They know that 95+% of internal bidders are unfrozen, so that'll cover most if not all LH and SH Captain slots. The only outstanding question will be how much SH recruitment is required to backfill those leaving SH for pastures new I think.

Obviously this is all based on a forward looking plan, based on current projections of demand etc. Personally I don't think it'll change too much, but if you can predict the future you'd be better off playing the lottery than being a pilot.

[Busdriver01]

The 747 sim still exists, no knowledge of whether it’s planned for recruitment use though.

It doesn't actually belong to BA anymore - was sold when the fleet was scrapped. It's external TRI/TREs that use it now. I heard it was 787 that was most likely to be used.

[A320LGW]

Thanks for the answers. Wow 787, I guess the 320 sims are under extreme pressure. I don't think I know of anyone doing assessment prep on a 787 just yet. Do they usually give much notice between interview and sim?

[balpalover69]

Thanks for the answers. Wow 787, I guess the 320 sims are under extreme pressure. I don't think I know of anyone doing assessment prep on a 787 just yet. Do they usually give much notice between interview and sim?

An a320 sim would hardly be a challenge, would it?

surely the purpose of shelling out to hire a 787 sim for ‘prep’ defeats the objective of an assessment…?

[Alrosa]

I had the impression the BA sim assessment was more about teamwork and making sound decisions, than about the ability to fly a given aircraft to within an inch of its life. That’s not to say you shouldn’t brush up on raw data flying etc.

[A320LGW]

An a320 sim would hardly be a challenge, would it?

surely the purpose of shelling out to hire a 787 sim for ‘prep’ defeats the objective of an assessment…?
My username is just a username ;)

Anyway any jobs I've been applying to have all used narrowbody aircraft so 787 is definitely not the norm, unless you're rated on it and going for a job on it so. I agree regarding assessment prep, but they exist for a reason and genuinely do boost your chances as I have experienced.

[A320LGW]

I had the impression the BA sim assessment was more about teamwork and making sound decisions, than about the ability to fly a given aircraft to within an inch of its life. That’s not to say you shouldn’t brush up on raw data flying etc.
I'm also sure that's the case, as it is with nearly all airlines. However the more familiar you are with a particular environment and particular aircraft's characteristics, the more spare capacity you will have which you can use to focus on the soft skills.

[balpalover69]

I'm also sure that's the case, as it is with nearly all airlines. However the more familiar you are with a particular environment and particular aircraft's characteristics, the more spare capacity you will have which you can use to focus on the soft skills.

Any decent sim assessor would be able to tell if a 320 rated pilot had practice on a 787 sim… Pretty sure they used to discourage prep sims, iirc.

[A320LGW]

I can understand where you are coming from. The thing is though, these assessments are exams. You don't go to any exam without preparing the best you possibly can (certainly not exams you seriously want to pass anyway), this includes mock exams for A levels etc. They do it because it works. A prep sim is essentially a mock exam. I can't talk for BA, but I have been to 3 airline open days where the pilot speakers actively encouraged doing it and made strong arguments for them.

I don't like them entirely because I think lots of them price gouge, but that's mostly down to a lack of serious competition in that particular market and is an entirely different conversation.

[Busdriver01]

An A320 sim would be a challenge for someone with no airbus experience, and a Boeing sim would be the same for an airbus only pilot. The BA sims are, as suggested above, looking for teamwork and soft skills as much as they are physical flying ability. They're also, crucially, looking for an upward trend in your ability over the course of the assessment - do you get better throughout the sim, and make the same mistakes less etc.

I think it's entirely reasonable, and actually very sensible, to do a practice sim before an assessment. It doesn't have to be a 787. If you are an airbus pilot, simply going in a 737 sim would be enough to get you used to having a yoke and having to trim. that alone could be the difference between having enough capacity to complete the sim successfully.

[ToCatLady]

Preparing for a sim assessment should never be a bad thing and shows an early enthusiasm towards the job position. Wether this be a practice sim session or just some armchair flying. . Perhaps circumstances such as cadet entry level would I possibly advise against it if I was an assessor, Only so that you get a clear indication of someone’s natural ability to learn and improve throughout the session.

[iFunFlyer]

Any ideas as to when BA will start arranging interviews?

[Jwscud]

If you are out of practice, I would certainly recommend plenty of raw data flying to up your capacity and scan rate.

[GetTheQRH]

Has anyone heard back from submitting the online application yet or are they just waiting to garner a stack of interested applications before sifting through them?

[Phantom4]

You should answer the questions very carefully and spend considerable time on the application up to a week.
The HR department can spot the ‘back of a fag packet’ responses,they’ve seen it hundreds of times before.
Before submission ask your soulmate to critique it..
When you reach the interview stage,download IAG Financial Results for 2021.Enormous amount of information including sections such as the threats facing the company.You need to present yourself as someone who stands out for the right reasons.Good Luck.

[BentleyTheDog]

What has anyone put for the salary expected question? I don’t want to undervalue myself or come across greedy, any advice?

[A320LGW]

I just put the salary they advertised for the euroflyer position ..

[BentleyTheDog]

Makes sense, thanks 👍🏻

[Alrosa]

I don’t recall such a question being asked during the last recruitment process. I’m not quite sure why it’s being asked, as my understanding is pay isn’t based on previous experience or individual performance.

Indeed the application form appears to have been ‘streamlined’ and is now basically very much ‘upload your CV, answer this one question and good luck!’

Notwithstanding the above, I’d echo the advice to answer any questions put carefully.

[hans brinker]

You should answer the questions very carefully and spend considerable time on the application up to a week.
The HR department can spot the ‘back of a fag packet’ responses,they’ve seen it hundreds of times before.
Before submission ask your soulmate to critique it..
When you reach the interview stage,download IAG Financial Results for 2021.Enormous amount of information including sections such as the threats facing the company.You need to present yourself as someone who stands out for the right reasons.Good Luck.

When is the last time management came in the crewroom and asked: "Nigel(lette), what should we do, the shareholders aren't happy?". The only reason for a pilot to know about the financial performance of the company they are applying for, is to make sure they can pay him. HR should be interested if they are a good pilot. HR asking pilots about company financials makes as much sense as HR asking accountants applying at BA to recite 747 engine fire memory items. And yes, with this attitude I will not get hired at BA, Got it, Thanks!

[Phantom4]

Hans,I think with respect you are missing my point.Having been on the team a question often asked was ‘what are the threats facing The Company’ This is not exclusive to Flight Ops.
Good Luck.

[SpamCanDriver]

When is the last time management came in the crewroom and asked: "Nigel(lette), what should we do, the shareholders aren't happy?". The only reason for a pilot to know about the financial performance of the company they are applying for, is to make sure they can pay him. HR should be interested if they are a good pilot. HR asking pilots about company financials makes as much sense as HR asking accountants applying at BA to recite 747 engine fire memory items. And yes, with this attitude I will not get hired at BA, Got it, Thanks!

It shows that the person is keen to get the job & is willing to put in the extra work to get it

[Seosan]

Slightly off topic but where on earth do LHR short haul Nigels live? Quick glance at rentals in West London is enough to make your eyes water.

[hans brinker]

It shows that the person is keen to get the job & is willing to put in the extra work to get it
Hans,I think with respect you are missing my point.Having been on the team a question often asked was ‘what are the threats facing The Company’ This is not exclusive to Flight Ops.
Good Luck.

No, I will respectfully disagree. Have applied for countless jobs, have been asked all the questions, jumped through all the hoops, and understand about putting the extra work in to get the job. Got my last job by going to HQ with my CV in hand, uninvited. And with 10 years to go, at (hopefully) my final airline, will try to go the extra mile for the company to succeed every time I am in uniform. When I look for a job I look at how they will treat me. And I just happen to believe that the only reason the company will do good is if they treat their employees right, before they treat the customers right. Me knowing about the financials and threats is for me. They should be interested in what extra I would bring to MY job, to make theirs easier.

[speed13ird]

Slightly off topic but where on earth do LHR short haul Nigels live? Quick glance at rentals in West London is enough to make your eyes water.
in the home counties where rents are less harmful to the optical equipment

[Jack the rabbit]

Slightly off topic but where on earth do LHR short haul Nigels live? Quick glance at rentals in West London is enough to make your eyes water.

Even Home Counties, Herts, Sussex, Berks etc. They’re tremendously expensive places. A look on rightmove- £1000/month gets you 1 perhaps 2 bed noddy and big ears box - some look like they’ve been the scene of the odd crime. £700/800 month a room share. Student life. Not so ok when you’re 30s onwards. Suppose depends if single or spouse can contribute. Children etc.

You can start further away down the M4 or up the M40 but you’re into petrol cost and sometimes hotels before earlies and extra duty hours at the beginning and end of your day sitting on the motorway in traffic.

Best stretching it as far as you can feel comfortable driving without dipping frequently into hotel before duties territory. That’s the road to notown doing that long term. You’ll blow lots of your time off and money on hotels and fuel just to do the job and it’ll drive you crackers eventually. I’m in that position, not by choice. I think it’s sometimes overlooked that BA agreed pay is fairly good but it’s perversely a very expensive job to do. Either upping one’s life to live nearby or spending £300-£900 a month getting to and from work with hotels/petrol or flights. That’s £3k-£9k a year allowing for leave. So as a commuter knock £5k min off the annual salary (and the delta too)

My advice if you’re looking at doing the BA thing with years on SH is draw a circle around Heathrow based on a radius of time factoring in you’ll have been operating knackered for long duties. It won’t actually be a proper circle as going too far round the M25 means 30/45 mins say is awful close whereas it’ll arc out a little more down the M4. (On a bad time of the day 30 mins still has you watching aircraft take off above your car just outside Heathrow)

Good luck.

[Seosan]

Good luck.

Cheers Jack. Bit past flatting in Twickers at my age but you never know. At least it’s close to the footy field!

[Lordflasheart]

...
I just put the salary they advertised for the euroflyer position ..

My understanding is that the Delta salary subtraction (expected to be minus 9% next year) is applicable to all BA and Euroflyer new hire headline salaries as well as to existing pilots.

See the BA Delta thread - https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/647970-british-airways-delta-pay-cut-2.html - and the BA pilots current ballot on the subject.

You might wish to factor that into your salary expectation and the advertised salary.

Warning - Questioning the Delta or why Easy LGW pilots get paid 50 % more for the same job, or mentioning the ongoing Osborne/BA Employment Tribunal case - https://www.gov.uk/employment-tribunal-decisions/mr-m-osborne-v-british-airways-plc-3301841-slash-2020
- may well be fail points.

Good luck to you all ... LFH
...

[GetTheQRH]

I've been told by 2 close colleagues already working at BA that they're confident that the 'delta' doesn't apply to new colleagues (something that everyone - almost rightly - seems to be dearly bitter about). Contradicts the consensus on here though that Delta will apply to everyone - Anyone got a concrete answer?

I think it'd be a difficult pill to swallow when you're asked to sign a contract with a stated pay scale and then someone says "actually, we're running a payout at the moment so this isn't accurate.."

[balpalover69]

I've been told by 2 close colleagues already working at BA that they're confident that the 'delta' doesn't apply to new colleagues (something that everyone - almost rightly - seems to be dearly bitter about). Contradicts the consensus on here though that Delta will apply to everyone - Anyone got a concrete answer?

I think it'd be a difficult pill to swallow when you're asked to sign a contract with a stated pay scale and then someone says "actually, we're running a payout at the moment so this isn't accurate.."


PRP (redundant pilots) do not have the delta paycut, new hires externally, do. as mentioned previously in the thread.

[Seosan]

PRP (redundant pilots) do not have the delta paycut, new hires externally, do. as mentioned previously in the thread.

With the best will in the world (and an understanding that airlines throw logic and reasoning out the window regularly), why would a new hire be expected to take the ‘delta’? If the purpose was to save jobs and retain talent through the various hold pools that are now empty, why would the delta continue, let alone be a burden of an external hire? Do the PRP waive the pay cut simply due to being based at Gatters?

[balpalover69]

With the best will in the world (and an understanding that airlines throw logic and reasoning out the window regularly), why would a new hire be expected to take the ‘delta’? If the purpose was to save jobs and retain talent through the various hold pools that are now empty, why would the delta continue, let alone be a burden of an external hire? Do the PRP waive the pay cut simply due to being based at Gatters?
No, Lot of PRP are based at LHR. I suppose reasoning is that the Delta arose from Balpa sort of 'selecting' the pilots in the PRP and the cost difference associated, so they could hardly make the PRP pay for their own redundancy, hence why PRP is exempt.

Pools might be empty but BA pilots/ balpa signed the delta deal in 2020, doesn't mean it goes away.

You might sign a mortgage, if your house price falls doesn't mean the mortgage goes away just because the market has changed...

If said new hire doesn't want the delta, no one is forcing them to submit the application and go through a three-step hiring process to join.

[Seosan]

Pools might be empty but BA pilots/ balpa signed the delta deal in 2020, doesn't mean it goes away.

Thanks. Makes sense, I guess quite the faux pas from BA BALPA to let that be indefinite.

Edit: to use the mortgage example, if you signed a 3% interest mortgage and were stuck in it and then they advertised a new rate of 2% to new customers, why would the new customer have to accept the 3% just because you did historically?

[hunterboy]

Wasn’t the danger that a new entrant could be on a higher salary than a pilot currently working for BA?

[Jack the rabbit]

If new hires didn’t pay it, there’d be 3 scales. The A scale- PP24 people paying a delta. The B scale - you guys- new joiners not paying a delta and the C scale - current PP34 pilots hit with the delta.

The terms they will trumpet in Q and As are the terms we’ve seen challenged year on year

For what it’s worth there’s hardly a non management pilot that thinks anyone should be paying this permanant (if you’re over 30 something) pay cut/tax

[balpalover69]

Thanks. Makes sense, I guess quite the faux pas from BA BALPA to let that be indefinite.

Edit: to use the mortgage example, if you signed a 3% interest mortgage and were stuck in it and then they advertised a new rate of 2% to new customers, why would the new customer have to accept the 3% just because you did historically?

the customer can go to a different bank…? Or stay with their current bank. Nothing forcing them to go through the process with this bank and signing up for a mortgage.

[Seosan]

the customer can go to a different bank…? Or stay with their current bank. Nothing forcing them to go through the process with this bank and signing up for a mortgage.

Alright so my banking metaphor wasn’t great! The appeal (as has always been) of BA is the longevity and variety your career can have there, along with a decent paycheque. I’m not saying that anyone is forced into applying, but it doesn’t make sense to me that a new entrant would be presented with a pay scale and then told that a random, incalculable percentage will be deducted monthly from now until retirement. Internally, whilst still an awful deal, it was at least accepted by the union and its members. Isn’t the delta up for negotiation at present anyhow? Surely it can’t last much longer.

In terms of multiple scales; just playing devil’s advocate but it sounds like a great way to divide pilots and reduce faith in the union. Not that the company would like to do that or anything…

[balpalover69]

Alright so my banking metaphor wasn’t great! The appeal (as has always been) of BA is the longevity and variety your career can have there, along with a decent paycheque. I’m not saying that anyone is forced into applying, but it doesn’t make sense to me that a new entrant would be presented with a pay scale and then told that a random, incalculable percentage will be deducted monthly from now until retirement. Internally, whilst still an awful deal, it was at least accepted by the union and its members. Isn’t the delta up for negotiation at present anyhow? Surely it can’t last much longer.

In terms of multiple scales; just playing devil’s advocate but it sounds like a great way to divide pilots and reduce faith in the union. Not that the company would like to do that or anything…


not saying it’s fair, but applications are inundated and this thread is full of people desparate to apply at any cost (even when people applying weakens Balpas negotiating position) so that all that really needs to be said … some sheep will do anything even when warned by multiple sources.

[Alrosa]

BA has always been inundated by applications whenever DEP opens up, and frankly I can’t see that changing anytime soon. Whilst things are far from rosy at BA, and weren’t when I was there, you only have to visit for instance, the Middle East forum to see that the grass isn’t necessarily greener elsewhere.

That’s not to say there are no better options out there, that depends on your views and your situation…a young, single person with no financial commitments could view BA in a very different light to someone with a mortgage and family in their mid 30s…

As for BALPA/BA ….no comment.

[Seosan]

not saying it’s fair, but applications are inundated and this thread is full of people desparate to apply at any cost (even when people applying weakens Balpas negotiating position) so that all that really needs to be said … some sheep will do anything even when warned by multiple sources.

Applications don’t weaken too much. It’s weakened only if those guys actually accept a contract with the Delta. If all applicants refused it, it would strengthen their position. However, sadly I can’t see many purple Airbus operators refusing a contract even with the pay cut.

[balpalover69]

Applications don’t weaken too much. It’s weakened only if those guys actually accept a contract with the Delta. If all applicants refused it, it would strengthen their position. However, sadly I can’t see many purple Airbus operators refusing a contract even with the pay cut.

I mean an application to ba is as good as accepting it. Huge interest to join the company hardly does balpas case justice….

same principle different label whatever

[SAR Bloke]

Does anyone have any info on the current hold pool? Particularly now that DEP vacancies are being advertised.

[Treestripe]

Hey guys and girls,

Did anyone else receive the holdpool email saying they need to reapply for the position in the holdpool?

I got this last night.

Also - has anyone here converted their license from EASA to CAA? I applied last month but wondering how long this usually takes atm?

Cheers!

[SAR Bloke]

I haven’t received an email.

Is it asking you to re-apply for the job from the beginning, or is there a process to re-apply to stay in the hold pool?

[kendrick47247]

I haven’t received an email.

Is it asking you to re-apply for the job from the beginning, or is there a process to re-apply to stay in the hold pool?

If you completed the process and hold a conditional offer then it’s only the latter

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Hey guys and girls,

Did anyone else receive the holdpool email saying they need to reapply for the position in the holdpool?

I got this last night.

Also - has anyone here converted their license from EASA to CAA? I applied last month but wondering how long this usually takes atm?

Cheers!

I know a few gone through that recently and took them 6 months!!!

[justjohn737]

I know a few gone through that recently and took them 6 months!!!
Speaking from my own personal experience, 6 months is about right

[capt.sparrow]

Took me best part of a year (that was back in 2020)

[737 Jockey]

Surprised no one has mentioned this yet…


https://careers.ba.com/job/gatwick/ba-euroflyer-direct-entry-pilot-captain/22348/35001507168

[santacruz]

Any chance of non rated DEC?!🤣

[biddedout]

Where do they think they are going to get Current A320 Captains from other than perhaps Wiz?

[Dave]

Surprised no one has mentioned this yet…


https://careers.ba.com/job/gatwick/ba-euroflyer-direct-entry-pilot-captain/22348/35001507168

From that page:

Height between 1.57m (5’2”) and 1.91m (6’3”). Qualified pilots taller than 1.91m may submit an application but will be required to undergo a functionality check to confirm their ability to meet requirements of the searing positions in the BA Euroflyer fleet.
Good level of physical fitness
Spoken and written English ICAO level 6


"searing positions"? Gosh I know the BA LGW fleet is old, but it doesn't even have air conditioning???

Maybe the person who wrote the job advert should get their ICAO level 6 English sorted???

[Potatos_69]

Anyone know what the current T&C are for euroflyer? Is it still similar to the 2021 deal or have they started to improve it so they can have a chance to actually bring people over for it?

[Superpilot]

"Competitive"

[BentleyTheDog]

Has anyone heard anything back from them yet?

[Seosan]

Has anyone heard anything back from them yet?

Guessing HR have taken a long weekend due to the public holiday as there were no extra assessments added this week.

[thetimesreader84]

Guessing HR have taken a long weekend due to the public holiday as there were no extra assessments added this week.

Very few non front line (ie on the day cabin / flight crew, ops, crewing) managers at BA work weekends or bank holidays.

I'm sure normal service will resume from 9am tomorrow, Tuesday, morning. Probably after a cup of Earl Grey.

[VariablePitchP]

Guessing HR have taken a long weekend due to the public holiday as there were no extra assessments added this week.

As has every other HR department in the country. It might be annoying but it’s not unreasonable..!

[Potatos_69]

"Competitive"

If it is competitive and the same as their 2021 offer then definitely will not be ticking the box for willing to accept Euroflyer...

[Seosan]

As has every other HR department in the country. It might be annoying but it’s not unreasonable..!

Never meant it to come across as unreasonable, everyone's entitled to public holidays. I was simply giving a reason to why someone hadn't heard back from them yet.

[Phantom4]

Anyone know which sim being used,744 or 767?

[Iflyplane]

Anyone know which sim being used,744 or 767?
They're using the 787 sim I've heard

[capt.sparrow]

Anyone know which sim being used,744 or 767?
Really, I wouldn't worry about what it is. If you've made it through the application, tests, group exercises and interview then HR have said OK. Now just prove to the single examiner you are a normal competent pilot and you'll be OK.

[smoggy68]

Has anyone in the holdpool had any recent updates?

[Treestripe]

Has anyone in the holdpool had any recent updates?


Just the email with the link to reply by the 31st August for DEP Holdpool…

Still had to answer the question - why BA, why now, what can you bring?

Apart from that - haven’t heard anything. Not sure if they will be in touch to say if successfully back in the holdpool?

Bit confusing because the email before said - ‘as you were in the holdpool you do not have to reapply’

Also all holdpool have been extended now 12 more months the same email said…

[Phantom4]

Really, I wouldn't worry about what it is. If you've made it through the application, tests, group exercises and interview then HR have said OK. Now just prove to the single examiner you are a normal competent pilot and you'll be OK.

With respect,I’m not sure about that.The TRE will judge the detail independently and the HR comment is a throw away line.

[kendrick47247]

Really, I wouldn't worry about what it is. If you've made it through the application, tests, group exercises and interview then HR have said OK. Now just prove to the single examiner you are a normal competent pilot and you'll be OK.

OR, completely ignore this advice, and prepare as diligently as you have for every other stage of the process

[Alrosa]

I can’t read other people’s minds, but I would interpret that advice as being focus on your core flying skills / CRM / decision making rather than which particular sim you will be assessed on.

You could go and find a 787 sim and practise some raw data on that etc. but I suspect it wouldn’t make that much difference what Boeing type you elected to do any practise on. Besides the sim used for assessment might be changed at short notice..

If you’re currently flying the line you could do some of your ‘practise’ at work.

[Seosan]

Has anyone got any insider knowledge of assessment dates? Been almost three weeks since the first three dates were proposed and radio silence since then.

[IslandHoppa]

So from what I’m hearing it seems BA are not sticking to their promises of prioritising people who were already at the end of the assessment for new assessment dates.

anyone else who was at stage 3 pre covid heard anything since the re opening?

[Polorutz]

Has anyone go any info on the new style psychometric tests that are done at home?

[A320LGW]

I have received an email that my application has passed the screening phase and to book an assessment when slots become available. I had thought this was an in person aptitude/maths test. I now see people mentioning a test to be done at home?

[IslandHoppa]

I have received an email that my application has passed the screening phase and to book an assessment when slots become available. I had thought this was an in person aptitude/maths test. I now see people mentioning a test to be done at home?

did you have an application in pre covid?

[A320LGW]

did you have an application in pre covid?

I did not, I take it the home test is for those that did?

[IslandHoppa]

I did not, I take it the home test is for those that did?

Interesting. I’m not sure, I was at stage 3 pre covid but not heard anything since they re opened annoyingly

[A320LGW]

I applied at the opening a few months ago, and got the same email about passing screening. Said there wasn't any slots yet but will be soon. Haven't heard anything since.

Yes I also applied in July. It has taken about 6 weeks but at least so far so good with the response!

[A320LGW]

Interesting. I’m not sure, I was at stage 3 pre covid but not heard anything since they re opened annoyingly
Ah I see. Well if anything it could be an indication of how long this whole process may actually take, let alone before any actual start date is given. We can only hope this winter isn't as bad as predicted and they do have quite an intake early next year.

[A320LGW]

I applied for LHR but ticked the box to say I'd accept LGW/Euroflier. The email I got this week didn't have anything about LHR or LGW. I presume they'll do all the hiring and then allocate LHR/LGW based on the needs at the time. Purely guesswork on my part however.

[Alrosa]

I was under the impression that this round of recruitment was largely to cater for Summer 2023 requirements.

I can’t comment on any other aspect as I’m out of the loop myself. The only other facts based on the vacancy blurb and application forms is that they have made it clear that candidates rated on the A320 will be given preference, and for those who applied to the LHR vacancy, there was an optional tick box to indicate willingness to consider a Gatwick offer if successful.

As usual with all things BA, plans can change from one week to the next.

Recruitment have an email address for queries but I would suggest it might take a while to get a reply. As a previous applicant, you should also be given priority in booking assessments. I’m not sure what order they are sending invitations to assessment out in though (if any).

[Seosan]

I didn't tick that box, I wanted LHR only, as I said, got the email to say passed that part. Just awaiting slots... and maybe further info from anyone on here who has any?

The assessments happen in person. There is an online pre-assessment you have to complete before arrival, could well replace the traditional maths exam. If you pass the initial assessment then you get called back for a second day in the sim.

There have been multiple slots released already, the first set were at the end of August and second set were two days towards end of September. From what I understand they will be releasing slots across the next few months and conducting assessments until spring/summer 23. I don’t think they are in a huge rush so if you’re waiting on an assessment slot just keep checking your emails and the BA site.

First assessment is team building, interview, multi-tasking.

[kendrick47247]

I was under the impression that this round of recruitment was largely to cater for Summer 2023 requirements.

I can’t comment on any other aspect as I’m out of the loop myself. The only other facts based on the vacancy blurb and application forms is that they have made it clear that candidates rated on the A320 will be given preference, and for those who applied to the LHR vacancy, there was an optional tick box to indicate willingness to consider a Gatwick offer if successful.

As usual with all things BA, plans can change from one week to the next.

Recruitment have an email address for queries but I would suggest it might take a while to get a reply. As a previous applicant, you should also be given priority in booking assessments. I’m not sure what order they are sending invitations to assessment out in though (if any).

The assessments happen in person. There is an online pre-assessment you have to complete before arrival, could well replace the traditional maths exam. If you pass the initial assessment then you get called back for a second day in the sim.

There have been multiple slots released already, the first set were at the end of August and second set were two days towards end of September. From what I understand they will be releasing slots across the next few months and conducting assessments until spring/summer 23. I don’t think they are in a huge rush so if you’re waiting on an assessment slot just keep checking your emails and the BA site.

First assessment is team building, interview, multi-tasking.

Both have posted very solid Info for those applying

[A320LGW]

So just to clarify:

Before attending the in person assessment (which is believed to replace the maths exam) you must do a test at home. Does this imply that you proceed to the in person test regardless of the results of your test at home?

[Seosan]

So just to clarify:

Before attending the in person assessment (which is believed to replace the maths exam) you must do a test at home. Does this imply that you proceed to the in person test regardless of the results of your test at home?

I wouldn’t over think it. They have simply condensed three days worth of assessment into two days. The first day you do the soft skills, the second day you do a sim. There’s a small online element prior to attending your first day. They say they can opt to get you to do it in person if they need to make sure your results were legit but I doubt it would ever come to that.

[Treestripe]

Anybody in the Holdpool who completed all the stages heard anything since reapplying for the Holdpool?

We have received your application for the role of Direct Entry Pilot - First Officer (holdpool).

or maybe we won’t hear? this just means we are back in the hold pool - it wasn’t too clear

[Polorutz]

Have you been informed that you have to complete them?

Yes, I have booked an assessment end of this month and I’m expected to do the tests before showing up. anyone have a heads up?

[Seosan]

To those who have done day one; how long did it take them to get back to you about sims, PFO, etc?