Pilot Moving to US

[alfaro]

Hi, I would like your advise about what is the best way to start my pilot carreer at US. Got a greencard recently, hope to move to Miami.
Current experience FAA ATP -A320 , ICAO ATP PIC ATR 72-600 . Total Time +4200 ( Airline experience) , PIC Turboprop tt 2200. Time on Airbus a320 ( just the hours on SIM for type rating). Have a degree.
What is my best chance? Apply in a Regional, to the majors? or Cargo?
Thanks in advance for your comments.

[rudestuff]

Just apply to everyone and see what happens. There are plenty of regionals with 'flow' programs into the majors. Have you got a degree?

[bafanguy]

Just apply to everyone and see what happens. There are plenty of regionals with 'flow' programs into the majors. Have you got a degree?

Exactly ! Since you have competitive numbers, apply to everyone. Proceed as if you were born and raised in Iowa. If you don't have a degree, that can be a problem at the legacy level but there are several career-destination airlines among the LCCs.

Good luck and let us know how your journey goes.

[B2N2]

Atlas Air is hiring: 74/77/76/73.
Recently arbitrated contract with average 30% pay increase.
Now on par with United/American narrow body pay both FO and PIC.
They have a MIA base but it’s pretty senior.

[alfaro]

Hi guys, thanks for your reply. And yes I have a degree (background engineering). So, do you think there could be a chance for a major? let's say spirt or jetblue thinking about florida?

I'll let you know how it goes, and if you have additional comments will be appreciated.

[bafanguy]

There's no reason you shouldn't apply to the legacy carriers too. Lot's of hiring going on.

Don't get so attached to living in one particular city that you limit yourself.

[alfaro]

bafanguy (https://www.pprune.org/members/84267-bafanguy) Thanks for your advise, I'll keep it in mind.

[B2N2]

Keep in mind that some airlines require US Citizenship and some will prefer it although they may not specifically tell you.
So depending on supply/demand they may pass on you.
Just a fair warning.
Ironically if you decide to work for a company like Atlas (greencard allowed) you can pretty much live anywhere in the world once you’ve got your citizenship.

[alfaro]

Keep in mind that some airlines require US Citizenship and some will prefer it although they may not specifically tell you.
So depending on supply/demand they may pass on you.
Just a fair warning.
Ironically if you decide to work for a company like Atlas (greencard allowed) you can pretty much live anywhere in the world once you’ve got your citizenship.

Good to know, I'll give a try. Thanks again.

[bafanguy]

I know that Delta hires green card holders...and no airline is fussier or snootier than Delta. ;)

[Kenny]

Keep in mind that some airlines require US Citizenship and some will prefer it although they may not specifically tell you.
So depending on supply/demand they may pass on you.
Just a fair warning.
Ironically if you decide to work for a company like Atlas (greencard allowed) you can pretty much live anywhere in the world once you’ve got your citizenship.

I’ve been a foreigner in these lands for over two decades now, so I know a thing or two about getting hired here, without being a citizen. That’s really not the case anymore and really only in the cargo world, with certain military contracts. The reason they won’t specifically tell you, is because it’s illegal under US law, unless there’s a genuine reason.

You keep pushing Atlas and while it has its pro’s it’s not for everyone, especially those with families and young kids. I’ve got more than a handful of friends there and not a single one would stay there if they could leave for FEDEX/UPS or a legacy.

[alfaro]

I’ve been a foreigner in these lands for over two decades now, so I know a thing or two about getting hired here, without being a citizen. That’s really not the case anymore and really only in the cargo world, with certain military contracts. The reason they won’t specifically tell you, is because it’s illegal under US law, unless there’s a genuine reason.

You keep pushing Atlas and while it has its pro’s it’s not for everyone, especially those with families and young kids. I’ve got more than a handful of friends there and not a single one would stay there if they could leave for FEDEX/UPS or a legacy.

Thanks Kenny, about Atlas is because long time away from home? why is different to Fedex/UPS?
And as some you already mentioned I apply and see what happens.

[B2N2]

I’ve been a foreigner in these lands for over two decades now, so I know a thing or two about getting hired here, without being a citizen. That’s really not the case anymore and really only in the cargo world, with certain military contracts. The reason they won’t specifically tell you, is because it’s illegal under US law, unless there’s a genuine reason.

You keep pushing Atlas and while it has its pro’s it’s not for everyone, especially those with families and young kids. I’ve got more than a handful of friends there and not a single one would stay there if they could leave for FEDEX/UPS or a legacy.

Not pushing, I’ve mentioned it twice in an effort to provide helpful information.
I don’t think FedEx/UPS is a reasonable expectation considering no flight time with a US “121” carrier.
Delta hires with a green card may also be a misrepresentation of the facts.
So you know the details? Was this flow through from a affiliated regional? Internal recommendations? How much 121 PIC time?
Its like saying UPS hires without a degree without stating any context as certainly very few applicants without a degree have competitive experience.
My suggestion was a (relatively easy) way in with a heavy type rating and then move on to a Major.
Do with it as you please as my recommendation is worth exactly what you paid for it.

[Kenny]

Not pushing, I’ve mentioned it twice in an effort to provide helpful information.
I don’t think FedEx/UPS is a reasonable expectation considering no flight time with a US “121” carrier.
Delta hires with a green card may also be a misrepresentation of the facts.
So you know the details? Was this flow through from a affiliated regional? Internal recommendations? How much 121 PIC time?
Its like saying UPS hires without a degree without stating any context as certainly very few applicants without a degree have competitive experience.
My suggestion was a (relatively easy) way in with a heavy type rating and then move on to a Major.
Do with it as you please as my recommendation is worth exactly what you paid for it.

B2N2,

I think I’ve fallen foul of the “tone not coming across with reply” pitfall. Apologies, if my response came across as a bit dismissive. Wasn’t the intent.

So, yes…you do have a point with DAL. Many years ago, their “hesitancy” with alien residents permeated down to their regional partners. ASA didn’t look at anyone that wasn’t a citizen, post 9-11. It was well known at the time but disguised under the veil of “the requirements of bringing anyone onboard, that isn’t a citizen, is too involved”. ACA, on the other hand didn’t mind and at the time ‘01-‘04 they went above and beyond to figure out the ever changing rules.

I’ve sat down and talked with an interview captain, been through the “fixit” email process, had my foreign degree validated and have a very good friend in the training department at DAL. So I’m aware of the hoop jumping that’s required to even be offered an interview. If you go back about 10 years, I would agree with you. Any non-citizen might fall at the first hurdle because they simply weren’t educated in the US; I’ve got a Mech Eng degree from London University, so not a Micky Mouse degree but the Brits don’t use the GPA system to grade their degrees. So I couldn’t answer their “what’s your GPA” question. They have their square holes and that instantly puts you in the round peg box….No soup for you.

Having talked to a few guys recently at the regionals, that seems to have changed at DAL and they seem to have calmed down a bit with how they view round pegs. Of course, requirements change as the quality and experience level of your applicant pool changes. I think that currently and certainly moving forward, if you’re legally able to live and work in the US and don’t require sponsorship, being a citizen will be less of an issue for anyone that meets all the other requirements and has a competitive resume.

Hope we’re good……

[Oldaircrew]

Not pushing, I’ve mentioned it twice in an effort to provide helpful information.
I don’t think FedEx/UPS is a reasonable expectation considering no flight time with a US “121” carrier.
Delta hires with a green card may also be a misrepresentation of the facts.
So you know the details? Was this flow through from a affiliated regional? Internal recommendations? How much 121 PIC time?
Its like saying UPS hires without a degree without stating any context as certainly very few applicants without a degree have competitive experience.
My suggestion was a (relatively easy) way in with a heavy type rating and then move on to a Major.
Do with it as you please as my recommendation is worth exactly what you paid for it.

UPS has just hired at least 9 ex EK guys, so I don’t think that 121 experience is necessary, probably just desirable.

[Kenny]

Thanks Kenny, about Atlas is because long time away from home? why is different to Fedex/UPS?
And as some you already mentioned I apply and see what happens.

Like everywhere else in the world there are different “tiers” of airlines. I’m going to try to diplomatic and generic here but I’ll probably upset someone and I’m sure others will disagree. For the most part, Legacy airlines like United, Delta and American are considered to be at the top of the pyramid when it comes to where you want to get to. Then Southwest and JetBlue and Horizon followed by Frontier, Spirit….etc. You get the overall idea.

The same applies to the Cargo carriers. FedEx and UPS are at the top. Then Atlas followed by the rest. My friends at FedEx and Atlas have told me that the difference are the FedEx schedules. At Atlas you can be away from home for up to 18 days a month with days off, on the road. So, not really a fit for some one with small kids or a wife, they actually like.

Let me just say before there are howls of “But, but, but”. For some Southwest is a far better fit than a legacy and considered a much more desirable place to go. Also, in no way am I suggesting that if you go to any other airline than a legacy, you’re somehow not as good. We all have our requirements and you go where you want and where you get an interview.

[Kenny]

UPS has just hired at least 9 ex EK guys, so I don’t think that 121 experience is necessary, probably just desirable.

United also. I know of at least one Cathay skipper that got the job and there are a lot of former EK guys knocking about. But you want to tick as many boxes as you can, to stand the best chance. So it does help.

[bafanguy]

Any non-citizen might fall at the first hurdle because they simply weren’t educated in the US;
...seems to have changed at DAL and they seem to have calmed down a bit with how they view round pegs.

Things indeed have calmed down a little bit at DL and they needed to. This from the pilot recruiting page on the employee website acknowledges acceptance of foreign degrees. I'm not sure how long this has been the case but certainly as long as I can remember:



Graduate of a four-year degree program from a college or university accredited by a U.S. Dept. of Education recognized accrediting organization.
Degrees obtained from a non-U.S. institution must be evaluated for equivalency to U.S. degrees by a member organization of the National Association of Credential Evaluation Services (NACES).

[fuelsurvey]

Should be able to skip going to a regional.

Apply to Allegiant, Spirit, Frontier etc. I’m at Allegiant and was hired as a green card holder. Lot’s of green card holders here with no US experience.

[B2N2]

Should be able to skip going to a regional.

Apply to Allegiant, Spirit, Frontier etc. I’m at Allegiant and was hired as a green card holder. Lot’s of green card holders here with no US experience.

Again, you have to see those in their context.
Were they hired ‘18/‘19?
Simply because it happened under a particular set of circumstances doesn’t mean it will happen under current market.

[fuelsurvey]

Again, you have to see those in their context.
Were they hired ‘18/‘19?
Simply because it happened under a particular set of circumstances doesn’t mean it will happen under current market.


I'm a new hire still in training. There are new courses starting every few weeks with many new hires having only a few thousand hours in the right seat of an RJ.

our latest course had 6 no shows. Regional are offering their pilots big retention bonuses because everyone is leaving for other airlines.

Tons of hiring now. Get your applications in, you’ll find something very quickly.

[alfaro]

Like everywhere else in the world there are different “tiers” of airlines. I’m going to try to diplomatic and generic here but I’ll probably upset someone and I’m sure others will disagree. For the most part, Legacy airlines like United, Delta and American are considered to be at the top of the pyramid when it comes to where you want to get to. Then Southwest and JetBlue and Horizon followed by Frontier, Spirit….etc. You get the overall idea.

The same applies to the Cargo carriers. FedEx and UPS are at the top. Then Atlas followed by the rest. My friends at FedEx and Atlas have told me that the difference are the FedEx schedules. At Atlas you can be away from home for up to 18 days a month with days off, on the road. So, not really a fit for some one with small kids or a wife, they actually like.

Let me just say before there are howls of “But, but, but”. For some Southwest is a far better fit than a legacy and considered a much more desirable place to go. Also, in no way am I suggesting that if you go to any other airline than a legacy, you’re somehow not as good. We all have our requirements and you go where you want and where you get an interview.

Thanks Kenny, it's good the get the whole pananorma, obviously for someone just starting in US even with some experience could be difficult to find the right spot.

[alfaro]

Things indeed have calmed down a little bit at DL and they needed to. This from the pilot recruiting page on the employee website acknowledges acceptance of foreign degrees. I'm not sure how long this has been the case but certainly as long as I can remember:



Graduate of a four-year degree program from a college or university accredited by a U.S. Dept. of Education recognized accrediting organization.
Degrees obtained from a non-U.S. institution must be evaluated for equivalency to U.S. degrees by a member organization of the National Association of Credential Evaluation Services (NACES).



I have seen this before, I already started checking how to validate my foreign diploma. Thanks for emphasize this

[AAGpilot]

Hi, I would like your advise about what is the best way to start my pilot carreer at US. Got a greencard recently, hope to move to Miami.
Current experience FAA ATP -A320 , ICAO ATP PIC ATR 72-600 . Total Time +4200 ( Airline experience) , PIC Turboprop tt 2200. Time on Airbus a320 ( just the hours on SIM for type rating). Have a degree.
What is my best chance? Apply in a Regional, to the majors? or Cargo?
Thanks in advance for your comments.

I would say that you have a pretty good resume. If your degree converts, the engineering background will help too. (Yes that makes a difference in how your application is scored). If you absolutely want to live in South Florida then American, JetBlue, and Spirit should be at the top of your list. I’d imagine you’d get a call pretty quickly from the latter two. If they don’t, then as others mentioned, find some cargo carrier to hang out at until they do. Delta and United are great too of course but again, if living SOFLO is your goal then you would be committing to a life of commuting (which sucks).

Best of luck to you and your new adventure. Out of curiosity, where are you moving from?

[bafanguy]

Again, you have to see those in their context.
Were they hired ‘18/‘19?
Simply because it happened under a particular set of circumstances doesn’t mean it will happen under current market.

Are you suggesting pilots were harder to get in '18 and '19 than they are now so airlines would have been more inclined to consider green card holders back then in an effort to fill seats ? Not trying to pick a fight ( I'm too lazy to fight with anyone), just asking for your frame of reference.

[alfaro]

I'm a new hire still in training. There are new courses starting every few weeks with many new hires having only a few thousand hours in the right seat of an RJ.

our latest course had 6 no shows. Regional are offering their pilots big retention bonuses because everyone is leaving for other airlines.

Tons of hiring now. Get your applications in, you’ll find something very quickly.

Thanks a lot, I was thinking about that, checking if with my experience will be able to skip regional even without 121 hours.

[alfaro]

I would say that you have a pretty good resume. If your degree converts, the engineering background will help too. (Yes that makes a difference in how your application is scored). If you absolutely want to live in South Florida then American, JetBlue, and Spirit should be at the top of your list. I’d imagine you’d get a call pretty quickly from the latter two. If they don’t, then as others mentioned, find some cargo carrier to hang out at until they do. Delta and United are great too of course but again, if living SOFLO is your goal then you would be committing to a life of commuting (which sucks).

Best of luck to you and your new adventure. Out of curiosity, where are you moving from?
Thanks for your comment AAGpilot (https://www.pprune.org/members/469552-aagpilot), I'm moving from Honduras.

[fuelsurvey]

Thanks a lot, I was thinking about that, checking if with my experience will be able to skip regional even without 121 hours.


Several of the green card holders I’ve met here have zero 121 experience. The 320 time will be valuable.

[B2N2]

Are you suggesting pilots were harder to get in '18 and '19 than they are now so airlines would have been more inclined to consider green card holders back then in an effort to fill seats ? Not trying to pick a fight ( I'm too lazy to fight with anyone), just asking for your frame of reference.

Not looking for a fight either lol.
What I meant was the hiring frenzy in ‘19 where they seemed to lower requirements by the day.
By the way for the US markets have a look here:
https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/
Payscales, base info and all that good stuff.

[bafanguy]

B2N2,

My impression is that '21 and '22 will be no different than '18 and '19. Maybe be worse in spots ?

[B2N2]

B2N2,

My impression is that '21 and '22 will be no different than '18 and '19. Maybe be worse in spots ?

Over the years Americans have become very adapt at being their own worst enemies.
With a vaccination rate stuck at 52%, TSA numbers still well down from ‘19, several states running at almost 100% ICU capacity.
With the uptick in travel being mostly Domestic I don’t see this “hiring boom” lasting very long.
Personally I think that this is mostly to make up for too many taking early retirement or other buy-outs.
Its a partial recovery not a growth.

[AAGpilot]

Over the years Americans have become very adapt at being their own worst enemies.
With a vaccination rate stuck at 52%, TSA numbers still well down from ‘19, several states running at almost 100% ICU capacity.
With the uptick in travel being mostly Domestic I don’t see this “hiring boom” lasting very long.
Personally I think that this is mostly to make up for too many taking early retirement or other buy-outs.
Its a partial recovery not a growth.

There are rumors circulating that American is trying to hire 2000 in 2022. That would be the most pilots any airline has ever hired in a single year (if in fact the rumors true).

[B2N2]

A number that big would have to be for the entire American Airlines Group including all their “regionals” and not just Mainline.
https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-service/about-us/american-airlines-group.jsp

[AAGpilot]

A number that big would have to be for the entire American Airlines Group including all their “regionals” and not just Mainline.
https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-service/about-us/american-airlines-group.jsp

No I’m talking about mainline AA. They’ve made it public that they’re hiring 1000 next year, but recently the rumor of 45 per week has started circulating. It’s an ambitious goal I agree, and there’s no official word on this so it could all be just a rumor.

[Kenny]

There are rumors circulating that American is trying to hire 2000 in 2022. That would be the most pilots any airline has ever hired in a single year (if in fact the rumors true).

The problem with a number that large AA, is where do they come from, in a relatively small amount of time? And the bigger problem, does AA have the capacity to train 2000 new-hires in a year?

[AAGpilot]

The problem with a number that large AA, is where do they come from, in a relatively small amount of time? And the bigger problem, does AA have the capacity to train 2000 new-hires in a year?

If history dictates, then about half will come from the military. As for the training capacity, I don’t know but I do know this:

The most AA has ever hired in one year was around 1000. At the time AA had 8 different types on the property. That’s a lot of bidding around by pilots. Today AA has 4 types with very little lateral movement occurring (eg. 737 to A320, or 777 to 787). That takes out a lot of training right there. Next, AA has recently gone from 9 month CQT cycles to 12 months, again taking out a lot of training events. Is all that streamlining enough to push out 2000 new hires in one year? Remains to be seen. Again I’d like to emphasize that the 2000 target is purely rumor right now.

[Sailvi767]

I know that Delta hires green card holders...and no airline is fussier or snootier than Delta. ;)

Delta has quite a few foreign pilots. Your qualifications put you in line for any US job. Get your apps in to everyone. Sadly the majors are very picky about the application itself so it’s best to use a interview prep service and get your app reviewed before submission. Spirit might also be a good fit for south Florida. Airlinepilotcentral.com is the best place for hiring info.

[bafanguy]

Get your apps in to everyone. Sadly the majors are very picky about the application itself so it’s best to use a interview prep service and get your app reviewed before submission.

Truer words were never written. But it's hard to get across on a forum just how important that application is. Every bit of punctuation, capitalization, data, syntax matters. Get help with it...the best money you can spend particularly if coming from a foreign carrier where things might be different.

[B2N2]

Yes I can reiterate that for applications at AA/DL/UA/FedEx/UPS that interview prep and resume audit are almost mandatory.
Ironically they want you to present yourself naturally and honest and yet every Prep Course company is run by former airline HR it seems.

[alfaro]

In your experience which one is the best interview prep service for majors? Is necessary for regionals?

[AAGpilot]

In your experience which one is the best interview prep service for majors? Is necessary for regionals?

When I was job hunting at the big three plus Fedex I used centerline to review my app. I know a lot of people use Gold Coast. No interview prep for me, just app review. It was about $100 and worth every penny. I must have gone through my app over a hundred times, updating times once a month, and still they caught mistakes. Do yourself a favor, get your app reviewed by the pros. The legacies will toss your app aside for putting Ave. instead of Avenue on you address history section.

[alfaro]

When I was job hunting at the big three plus Fedex I used centerline to review my app. I know a lot of people use Gold Coast. No interview prep for me, just app review. It was about $100 and worth every penny. I must have gone through my app over a hundred times, updating times once a month, and still they caught mistakes. Do yourself a favor, get your app reviewed by the pros. The legacies will toss your app aside for putting Ave. instead of Avenue on you address history section.
Thanks for the advise, definitely I'll check with them and others.

[bafanguy]

In your experience which one is the best interview prep service for majors? Is necessary for regionals?


You can start here for suggestions:

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/133697-interview-prep.html

[Sunrig]

For an application review i would recommend RST ready set take off. They do a very good job. For interview prep you should also look at Emerald Coast interview consulting.
But what you should absolutely do is try to go to a job fair to get some facetime with the recruiters. That helps a lot your app getting looked at. With your experience you shouldn't have to go to a Regional. I would also recommend Spirit for your location. Try to attend a Meet the chiefs. Buena Suerte!

[alfaro]

For an application review i would recommend RST ready set take off. They do a very good job. For interview prep you should also look at Emerald Coast interview consulting.
But what you should absolutely do is try to go to a job fair to get some facetime with the recruiters. That helps a lot your app getting looked at. With your experience you shouldn't have to go to a Regional. I would also recommend Spirit for your location. Try to attend a Meet the chiefs. Buena Suerte!

Thanks for recommendations, I have seen many people recommend RST. About spirit I met some guys at FLL, they mentioned many expats worked there which is good.

[bafanguy]

Some prep services are said to lean more toward a particular airline. I don't know if that's the case but people who use them seem to feel that way. The thread on APC may say which one is more Spirit-centric.

[saltyswede]

Apply to JetBlue hiring 600 next year

[Kakar khan]

Hi am Mehmood. I am a military pilot in Pakistan. I have more than 15
years of flying experience and 5400 flying hrs. I have 3200 hrs as
pilot in command . I am also instructor on CN 235 Casa and beech craft. I have flown C-130, CN235
Casa. Y-9 Chinese aircraft and King air 350i. I have recently done my
initial pilot conversion of king air 350i in Florida. Because of proficient performance I was awarded pro-card on initial sim of King air 350i. I have also obtained TSA approval from DOD. I have done bachelors (BS) in aero sciences and Masters in war
> studies. I don’t have licence yet. Request your guidence regaring obtaining of Green card
thanks

[Amadis of Gaul]

Hi am Mehmood. I am a military pilot in Pakistan. I have more than 15
years of flying experience and 5400 flying hrs. I have 3200 hrs as
pilot in command . I am also instructor on CN 235 Casa and beech craft. I have flown C-130, CN235
Casa. Y-9 Chinese aircraft and King air 350i. I have recently done my
initial pilot conversion of king air 350i in Florida. Because of proficient performance I was awarded pro-card on initial sim of King air 350i. I have also obtained TSA approval from DOD. I have done bachelors (BS) in aero sciences and Masters in war
> studies. I don’t have licence yet. Request your guidence regaring obtaining of Green card
thanks

Marry someone.