Foreign pilots now allowed to apply for a Green Card?

[JoseLeon]

A quick question for you. How many people get the green card application rejected?

I don't have the stats as they don't release them without FOIAs. A lot of things done by USCIS are discretionary and this is one of them. For example, USCIS has a 50% overall approval rate on asylums, however, if adjudicated by an immigration judge, it can vary between a 5% and 97% denial rate. Within those stats, most of the denials are self-petitions. The highest statistical probability of success for anything immigration related will be with an attorney.

As a side note related to choosing attorneys, please do your due diligence. Research the attorney to make sure they can practice law in the US. You can easily go to the State BAR website and search by name. In my immigration practice, I have represented numerous victims of immigration fraud as it's very common in the US.

[Climb150]

Thank you for the response. What I should have asked is how many of your clients have been refused?

[JoseLeon]

Thank you for the response. What I should have asked is how many of your clients have been refused?

None yet.

[FalseGS]

The process is long, expensive, excruciating and unpredictable.

Took me 8 months to compile my application and 8 days for the approval.

The wait for the PD is longer and feel that the seniority boat will be long gone by the time I get my visa.

[FourStripes]

YYZ_bound,

Any update on your interview schedule? Did you get the VISA?

[bongo bongo]

There is also an immigration lawyer who is registered on here. Maybe send him a PM and he can give you information specific to your situation.

I've heard good things about Harvey Law and Hayman Woodward, but I have not dealt with them personally

Hayman Woodward is asking 25.000 USD way out of standard average market price from other firm laws.

[havick]

Hayman Woodward is asking 25.000 USD way out of standard average market price from other firm laws.

$25k is insane

[FourStripes]

Anyone else waiting for an interview at your country"s US Embassy?

How long have you been waiting and were you affected by the retrogression in the Visa Bulletin for June?

[McMax]

The process is long, expensive, excruciating and unpredictable.

Took me 8 months to compile my application and 8 days for the approval.

The wait for the PD is longer and feel that the seniority boat will be long gone by the time I get my visa.

it took only 8 days for the USCIS to approve your petition?

[me179]

Hello Everyone,

I made it, I got approved, all done my myself alone after researching the internet and sharing ideas with other pilots. My profile:

- FO, Wide Body, Less than 4000 hrs, EASA ATP, EU Citizen
- Maters Degree in Aeronautical Engineering
- 6 years Work Experience as Engineer, 7 Years as FO
- Aviation Freelance Consultant
- No Papers, No publications, 4 Ref. Letters
- I used common sense and good arguments

I got a direct approval, no RFE

It took me 4 months to write, after researching the internet for a year. I got some guidance from people I met in FB groups. Lawyers asked for 18k $ non refundable paid upfront. The same lawyers ask for 5000 $ (2500 upfront and 2500$ once approved) when it is about other professions. It is for exactly this reason that I have decided to apply myself.

Good Luck everyone.

[FourStripes]

Hello Everyone,

I made it, I got approved, all done my myself alone after researching the internet and sharing ideas with other pilots. My profile:

- FO, Wide Body, Less than 4000 hrs, EASA ATP, EU Citizen
- Maters Degree in Aeronautical Engineering
- 6 years Work Experience as Engineer, 7 Years as FO
- Aviation Freelance Consultant
- No Papers, No publications, 4 Ref. Letters
- I used common sense and good arguments

I got a direct approval, no RFE

It took me 4 months to write, after researching the internet for a year. I got some guidance from people I met in FB groups. Lawyers asked for 18k $ non refundable paid upfront. The same lawyers ask for 5000 $ (2500 upfront and 2500$ once approved) when it is about other professions. It is for exactly this reason that I have decided to apply myself.

Good Luck everyone.

me179:

what is the next step after gettting the approval?
are you scheduled for an interview anytime soon?

[rudestuff]

me179:

what is the next step after gettting the approval?
are you scheduled for an interview anytime soon?
What do you think 'approval' means?!

[FourStripes]

Approval means the petition has been reviewed and a Visa will be granted after more steps in the process.

[me179]

An interview at a US consulate.

[FalseGS]

it took only 8 days for the USCIS to approve your petition?
Affirm.
Even I was surprised. Turns out some other guy got it in 6 days. So no record broken in this case.

[michael93]

Affirm.
Even I was surprised. Turns out some other guy got it in 6 days. So no record broken in this case.

FalseGS, first of all, congrats. Was is with Premium processing?

[FourStripes]

probalbly with Premium Processing.

the normal processing time is around 30 to 90 days given USCIS is understaffed.

[RickSanchez]

After going through and still being in this process.

a. I don’t see how anyone has a reply in any of the short times indicated here when official receipts of submission take 2-3 weeks to be sent through.

b. After seeing the level of accuracy and detail that a professional application contains, I wouldn’t even consider doing it myself.

c. After taking personal time required to submit/cost of professional services, I’d rather spend that time creating value elsewhere. Or watching some paint dry.

Well done anyone who genuinely gets approval on a personal application that hasn’t just copied someone else’s, that’s a spectacular result.

[737pilotguy]

After going through and still being in this process.

a. I don’t see how anyone has a reply in any of the short times indicated here when official receipts of submission take 2-3 weeks to be sent through.

b. After seeing the level of accuracy and detail that a professional application contains, I wouldn’t even consider doing it myself.

c. After taking personal time required to submit/cost of professional services, I’d rather spend that time creating value elsewhere. Or watching some paint dry.

Well done anyone who genuinely gets approval on a personal application that hasn’t just copied someone else’s, that’s a spectacular result.

A. My I-140 was approved before receiving the actual I-797C receipt notice. My case was approved within three weeks of sending the petition to USCIS.
B. I completely agree with you. I couldn't imagine creating the NIW package myself. A good lawyer is a must in my opinion.
C. If I understand you correctly, you're still waiting for either an approval or stuck in the current retrogression? Either way, good luck to you. This process is long and tiring, but I firmly want to immigrate to the US and the career prospects are generally much more positive in the US than elsewhere in the world.

[FalseGS]

FalseGS, first of all, congrats. Was is with Premium processing?

Yes it was.

[Whitemonk Returns]

Hello Everyone,

I made it, I got approved, all done my myself alone after researching the internet and sharing ideas with other pilots. My profile:

- FO, Wide Body, Less than 4000 hrs, EASA ATP, EU Citizen
- Maters Degree in Aeronautical Engineering
- 6 years Work Experience as Engineer, 7 Years as FO
- Aviation Freelance Consultant
- No Papers, No publications, 4 Ref. Letters
- I used common sense and good arguments

I got a direct approval, no RFE

It took me 4 months to write, after researching the internet for a year. I got some guidance from people I met in FB groups. Lawyers asked for 18k $ non refundable paid upfront. The same lawyers ask for 5000 $ (2500 upfront and 2500$ once approved) when it is about other professions. It is for exactly this reason that I have decided to apply myself.

Good Luck everyone.

Congratulations on getting your visa. Any advice or tips on what helped you submit a successful application? Happy to put in the work myself but any websites you found useful would be helpful. Cheers

[A321drvr]

I'm not sure of anyone is willing to share tips with you as most pay top dollar and/or putting their time into research which could worth equivalent top dollar. In any case here's one who didn't make it, could be of help on how not to do it.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/err/B5%2520-%2520Members%2520of%2520the%2520Professions%2520holding%2520 Advanced%2520Degrees%2520or%2520Aliens%2520of%2520Exceptiona l%2520Ability/Decisions_Issued_in_2021/SEP142021_05B5203.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiwwsyYlLr_AhXPDt4KHb1fAgQQFnoECBYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3b2_K5wbFErjswLaM1d24T

[Climb150]

That's the elephant in the room. Nobody talks about the people who got rejected.

I spoke to a lawyer who claimed a 100% success rate. After some more questions he admits that he only submits the application if he is certain it will be approved.

So if 10 people contact you, what's the percentage of people you think will be approved? Oh about 2 in 10 he said.

[Amadis of Gaul]

$25k is insane

Is it? Back when I was going through the immigration process almost 30 years ago, just a basic retainer for an immigration attorney was $9,000. Thirty years ago.

[737pilotguy]

Is it? Back when I was going through the immigration process almost 30 years ago, just a basic retainer for an immigration attorney was $9,000. Thirty years ago.

The amount of specialty and time investment required for a well formulated EB2 petition, a qualified lawyer has every right to charge accordingly. If the client is willing to pay $25k, that's up to you.

And to the previous comment, of course not every airline pilot is qualified for a NIW. To suggest otherwise would be highly unethical of a lawyer to do.

[YYZ_bound]

Just a quick update. As I previously stated, did EB-2 NIW on my own, no lawyers. Did not use premium processing. I-140 was filed Oct 2021/ Got my passport with EB-2 NIW visa stamped end of May. It took us a year and a half to get everything done. The question of the lawyer depends on whether you are capable of researching the internet, immigration communities.
If you don't have a Degree, lots of hours and experience, you might not get approved with lawyers/without, but you can always try to make your case stand out.

[FourStripes]

Just a quick update. As I previously stated, did EB-2 NIW on my own, no lawyers. Did not use premium processing. I-140 was filed Oct 2021/ Got my passport with EB-2 NIW visa stamped end of May. It took us a year and a half to get everything done. The question of the lawyer depends on whether you are capable of researching the internet, immigration communities.
If you don't have a Degree, lots of hours and experience, you might not get approved with lawyers/without, but you can always try to make your case stand out.

1. What questions did the VO ask you?
2. Have you paid the $220? did you pay it before departing the US or when you landed?
3. When you entered the US, was there any issues at the port of entry? any problems with CBP?

[YYZ_bound]

1. What questions did the VO ask you?
2. Have you paid the $220? did you pay it before departing the US or when you landed?
3. When you entered the US, was there any issues at the port of entry? any problems with CBP?

I was just about my highest degree, and if I'm planning to work as a pilot in the US.
no, we haven't landed in the US yet. But you have to pay before you go to the border.
I don't think there will be any.
Good luck!

[cbr58]

I was just about my highest degree, and if I'm planning to work as a pilot in the US.
no, we haven't landed in the US yet. But you have to pay before you go to the border.
I don't think there will be any.
Good luck!


Can you tell more about when you say you were just about your highest degree?

I have two aviation management certificates but I am still one exam to go and the dissertation before i get my master’s degree.
I was just wondering if that would be enough to apply according to your experience.

[awair]

The requirement is for an ‘advanced degree’ (ie higher than Bachelor’s).

A foreign award also needs to be qualified by a recognised transcript service to be accepted by USCIS. If the degree is from a US University it should be automatically accepted.

Don’t think your other certificates would be accepted, unless a transcript service deems them equivalent number if credits.

Good luck.

[zerograv]

There is one keyword not to be forgotten in this all subject. The outcome of the process is, at the of the day, 'discretionary'.

Therefore, technically speaking, it can depend on the altimeter setting of the day in Dallas ...

Before going into the advanced rocket sciences certificates, or degrees, it might be appropriate to think of more mundane details.

Me109 mentioned that he was approved. His data mentiones him as being 44 years old. Would say that that's about the limit for a successful outcome. Younger than that is likely to be better. Older than that it might be a no go. Other stuff like being married with children might cause one to be regarded as a responsible candidate. Being single could be a deal breaker.

[737pilotguy]

Can you tell more about when you say you were just about your highest degree?

I have two aviation management certificates but I am still one exam to go and the dissertation before i get my master’s degree.
I was just wondering if that would be enough to apply according to your experience.

I'd suggest contacting some lawyers to evaluate your suitability if you are serious about pursuing this option, don't only ask on forums. Pilots rarely make the best "experts," despite what they'll tell you...An advanced degree does NOT necessarily mean a degree higher than a bachelors. Experience can give substantial merit to your case and USCIS is very clear on that. Furthermore, your success at USCIS will depend on the presentation of your case, your credentials (it doesn't hurt to have any non-US degrees evaluated to US equivalency), your experience, and the case officer reviewing your petition. They have alot of discretion in their determination.

[awair]

Sorry 737pilotguy , not intending to seem like correcting homework:ugh:

I'd suggest contacting some lawyers to evaluate your suitability if you are serious about pursuing this option, don't only ask on forums.
I would suggest that the forums are the only place that might advise to "try it yourself".
(My opinion, is to find the right lawyer ($8-10k?: we are talking about time & seniority, so it will pay back in time.)

Pilots rarely make the best "experts," despite what they'll tell you...
Absolutely correct!
And we are not always good about decisions outside the cockpit.

An advanced degree does NOT necessarily mean a degree higher than a bachelors.
Wrong - that is the exact definition of an Advanced Degree (see link below).
Note also about the link to the 'professions' for EB2-NIW.

Experience can give substantial merit to your case and USCIS is very clear on that.
Yes; Bachelors degree plus 5 years, considered equivalent (see link below).

Furthermore, your success at USCIS will depend on the presentation of your case, your credentials

(it doesn't hurt to have any non-US degrees evaluated to US equivalency), your experience, and the case officer reviewing your petition.
Would appear to be mandatory for foreign degree to be formally evaluated (see link below).

They have alot of discretion in their determination.
They have to follow US law, and be convinced that your application 'ticks the boxes'.
Your lawyer should make sure that little is left to discretion.

Good luck everyone.

https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-6-part-f-chapter-5

[JoseLeon]

They have to follow US law, and be convinced that your application 'ticks the boxes'.
Your lawyer should make sure that little is left to discretion.


Unfortunately, this is not a box checking exercise and it's not as black and white as we would like it to be. Even with all the boxes checked, there's still a discretionary component based on the totality of the circumstances. There have been a substantial amount of RFE's and denials coming down in the last few months. In addition to attacking the exceptional abilities of pilots, there are also plenty of denials attacking the proposed endeavors and national importance of it.

I speculate that there is lobbying behind closed doors trying to minimize the EB2 NIW for pilots.

Good luck to all!

[Commuting101]

Unfortunately, this is not a box checking exercise and it's not as black and white as we would like it to be. Even with all the boxes checked, there's still a discretionary component based on the totality of the circumstances. There have been a substantial amount of RFE's and denials coming down in the last few months. In addition to attacking the exceptional abilities of pilots, there are also plenty of denials attacking the proposed endeavors and national importance of it.

I speculate that there is lobbying behind closed doors trying to minimize the EB2 NIW for pilots.

Good luck to all!
Hi Jose,

With the above in mind - how is the current retrogression of the EB2 going to affect things? Are those that are a month or two behind the current priority date going to wait an extra month or 2 or longer or years? What is the current time frame clients are being told from start to finish if all goes well?

All seems to becoming a very very long process even if you are not turned down by the USCIS.

Thank you

[JoseLeon]

how is the current retrogression of the EB2 going to affect things? Are those that are a month or two behind the current priority date going to wait an extra month or 2 or longer or years? What is the current time frame clients are being told from start to finish if all goes well?



If you are a month or two from the priority date, then you are almost there. You also have to consider the consulate’s processing delays (they are all different). I’m telling my clients to plan on approximately two years from the moment they hire me.

Also, due to the retrogression, I’m not recommending premium processing.

[Amadis of Gaul]

I speculate that there is lobbying behind closed doors trying to minimize the EB2 NIW for pilots.


Ya think?

[Commuting101]

If you are a month or two from the priority date, then you are almost there. You also have to consider the consulate’s processing delays (they are all different). I’m telling my clients to plan on approximately two years from the moment they hire me.

Also, due to the retrogression, I’m not recommending premium processing. I understand. Thanks.

Are you expecting the retrogression to worsen or to continue to move forward towards current as it has in the latest bulletin? I’m struggling to understand how this works as from what I read, there is more supply than demand, particularly with the new fiscal year from October? Last thing you’d want is for it to worsen after applying as this pilot shortage and requirement for foreigners won’t last very long.

[JoseLeon]

I understand. Thanks.

Are you expecting the retrogression to worsen or to continue to move forward towards current as it has in the latest bulletin? I’m struggling to understand how this works as from what I read, there is more supply than demand, particularly with the new fiscal year from October? Last thing you’d want is for it to worsen after applying as this pilot shortage and requirement for foreigners won’t last very long.


I don’t have any expectations.

As long as you are approved, then it’s an exercise in having tactical patience. Any change in the pilot shortage will not have any bearing on your ability to adjust. Regardless, the pilot shortage is not going anywhere.

I’m an AA pilot and last I checked we are losing around 800-900 a year. Unless WWIII kicks off, the pilot shortage is not going anywhere anytime soon.

[Kakar khan]

Hi, can you dilate upon the chances of obtaining EB2 NIW specifically with regard to establishing the fact that proposed endeavour is of national interest,

Is it not in the national interest to help in easing shortage by becoming an airline pilot in US because in my opinion this is the best an experience pilot can offer.

what can be other option ( except for test pilot) which can make ones proposed endeavour and case stronger with high probability of success.

[JoseLeon]

Hi, can you dilate upon the chances of obtaining EB2 NIW specifically with regard to establishing the fact that proposed endeavour is of national interest,

Unfortunately, this is entirely subjective. I have seen RFEs that more or less attack everything, to include the that the proposed endeavor is not of national importance.

Is it not in the national interest to help in easing shortage by becoming an airline pilot in US because in my opinion this is the best an experience pilot can offer.

It is. However, they seem to be leaning towards unique pilot profiles. Being an average airline pilot may not be sufficient to some examiners anymore.

what can be other option ( except for test pilot) which can make ones proposed endeavour and case stronger with high probability of success.

The strongest case is that of an advanced degree to bypass the whole exceptional abilities argument.

[bafanguy]

The strongest case is that of an advanced degree to bypass the whole exceptional abilities argument.


Does it make a difference in what academic discipline the degree was earned ? An advanced degree in underwater basket weaving would suffice for an aviation applicant ?

[JoseLeon]

Does it make a difference in what academic discipline the degree was earned ? An advanced degree in underwater basket weaving would suffice for an aviation applicant ?

Aviation related unfortunately.

[flyer4life]

The strongest case is that of an advanced degree to bypass the whole exceptional abilities argument.

Hi, agreed but isn’t that regarding the EB2 requirements?

The three prongs of the NIW still need to be argued, particularly how to show that one’s own endeavours (not the aviation industry as a whole) are in the national interest?

I had an RFE on this very point, despite having advanced degree and 19 years in the industry. My lawyer and I did what we could with an expanded personal plan and an expert opinion letter, now I’m waiting for the answer from USCIS.

[JoseLeon]

Hi, agreed but isn’t that regarding the EB2 requirements?

The three prongs of the NIW still need to be argued, particularly how to show that one’s own endeavours (not the aviation industry as a whole) are in the national interest?

I had an RFE on this very point, despite having advanced degree and 19 years in the industry. My lawyer and I did what we could with an expanded personal plan and an expert opinion letter, now I’m waiting for the answer from USCIS.

Correct. Let us know how it goes and good luck!

[rudestuff]

By the sound of it, it's all about convincing the person reviewing the case that you are exceptional, possibly someone with little aviation knowledge. British self depreciation and subtlety does not work with Americans, and an ATPLwith 20+ years of not crashing does not make you exceptional, you literally have to tell them that you invented TCAS...

[JoseLeon]

By the sound of it, it's all about convincing the person reviewing the case that you are exceptional, possibly someone with little aviation knowledge. British self depreciation and subtlety does not work with Americans, and an ATPLwith 20+ years of not crashing does not make you exceptional, you literally have to tell them that you invented TCAS...


Correct. It's not the time to be humble.

[flyer4life]

Well that's my EB2 NIW petition denied due to failing to prove my endeavors were in the national interest (prong 1) and that it is beneficial for US to waive labor certification requirement (prong 3). I initially had an RFE on those same points; I submitted a hugely expanded personal plan (which was mostly ignored by USCIS) and added a further detailed expert opinion letter arguing why I met the NIW requirements. I had a lawyer throughout the process who feels the USCIS is now being unfairly tough on pilot petitioners.

The EB2 part was accepted (with advanced degree) and NIW prong 2 (petitioner is well-positioned to advance proposed endeavor) was accepted.

I've got over 10k hours (mostly medium turbine P1), FAA and EASA ATPs, and nearly 20 years in the industry working at well-respected European airlines.

The sticking point seems to be how you can argue that your individual endeavors will have a national impact; it's no good talking about the pilot shortage and the national importance of the industry as a whole. It's about what you, personally, will do to have national impact. Simply being an airline pilot isn't enough.

[hunterboy]

Sadly, that makes sense…..I always imagined these visas were to attract experts in such things as AI and data mining, etc rather than filling a labour shortage?

[Comanche]

I applied for EB2 NIW (self petition) and had a RFE stating that although I had easily met EB criteria, I had not proved the three prongs of the NIW, particularly how to show that one’s own endeavours (not the aviation industry as a whole) are in the national interest. Have a Masters in Economics (aviation management), captain over 19 years 14k hours all jet (Boeing/Airbus), Airbus TRI 9+ years and had a letter of recommendation from head of training Airbus (friend of mine). I considered hiring Harvey Law Group lawyer (12k cost USD) after RFE request but ultimately withdrew my application as looking at the US airlines terms and conditions, despite the recent salary raises, it's just not worth it to me to make the move, especially at 50+ years starting as a junior pilot again. If you are 30-35 years old and are willing to put up with being junior and all its drawbacks (low starting salaries, potential commuting, terrible bid lines, little vacation, demotion to F/O etc etc) go for it. It all depends on which USCIS officer received your file, so you also need some luck. Age may have been a consideration, although the Harvey laywer mentioned that she recognized the USCIS officer ID nr and he had a reputation for being difficult.

[Sunrig]

I applied for EB2 NIW (self petition) and had a RFE stating that although I had easily met EB criteria, I had not proved the three prongs of the NIW, particularly how to show that one’s own endeavours (not the aviation industry as a whole) are in the national interest. Have a Masters in Economics (aviation management), captain over 19 years 14k hours all jet (Boeing/Airbus), Airbus TRI 9+ years and had a letter of recommendation from head of training Airbus (friend of mine). I considered hiring Harvey Law Group lawyer (12k cost USD) after RFE request but ultimately withdrew my application as looking at the US airlines terms and conditions, despite the recent salary raises, it's just not worth it to me to make the move, especially at 50+ years starting as a junior pilot again. If you are 30-35 years old and are willing to put up with being junior and all its drawbacks (low starting salaries, potential commuting, terrible bid lines, little vacation, demotion to F/O etc etc) go for it. It all depends on which USCIS officer received your file, so you also need some luck. Age may have been a consideration, although the Harvey laywer mentioned that she recognized the USCIS officer ID nr and he had a reputation for being difficult.
I would say it all depends on your attitude. It’s a big move to start all over again. Don’t let your ego get in the way of the opportunities right now. Almost all legacies offer an early upgrade to Captain or training positions. You will just need to get your 1000 hours 121 time. Also salaries are way higher than in Euroland. You can easily break 200K your second year and 300K year 3 if you take the early upgrade. But expect to work for that money. Good luck!

[Comanche]

I'm currently on the equivalent of approx 180k USD working 650 hrs a year on average, but if I take into account the generous retirement allowance it's the equivalent of about 220k USD with 6 weeks of paid leave, based where I want to be and unmatched job protection (France). Without any doubt, I agree that this is on the upper scale of what you can take home working for any European airline and it may well be worthwhile moving if you work for an airline in Europe with a pay towards the lower range.

Having said that, considering that it would take 18+ months to get the greencard and a job, at age 50+ one may never even become a captain again. As far as I'm concerned, it's too big a gamble, considering potential economic downturns or other events. If I were 30+ working for another airline I'd probably make the jump though.

[Sunrig]

I'm currently on the equivalent of approx 180k USD working 650 hrs a year on average, but if I take into account the generous retirement allowance it's the equivalent of about 220k USD with 6 weeks of paid leave, based where I want to be and unmatched job protection (France). Without any doubt, I agree that this is on the upper scale of what you can take home working for any European airline and it may well be worthwhile moving if you work for an airline in Europe with a pay towards the lower range.

Having said that, considering that it would take 18+ months to get the greencard and a job, at age 50+ one may never even become a captain again. As far as I'm concerned, it's too big a gamble, considering potential economic downturns or other events. If I were 30+ working for another airline I'd probably make the jump though.
I totally understand that. Having to wait another 18 months at age 50+ doesn’t place you exactly at the front end of the hiring curve. You would still be able to upgrade early ( after you have flown 1000 hours in the right seat). But you most likely won’t have the seniority progression that someone has who got hired maybe 2-3 years ago. Coming here to the US would give you maybe options you wouldn’t have if you stayed in France. Be it flying wide bodies or having way more time off with more/similar money than flying in Europe. I also did the move in my 50’s and don’t regret leaving my very good job in Europe with 20 years of seniority. With the right attitude one can manage to fly from the right seat even after being so many years a Captain. 😃

[Comanche]

More time off? Could you eloborate please as I thought vacation days will be much less the first few years whilst part time is not an option I think with the US majors? As seniority will be low, the first few years I'd probably be on reserve and then getting productive bid lines with max days off will be near impossible?

[baknedicem]

Hi,

I just wonder how bad could "bid lines" be and how little the annual vacations days are?

I work at a major airline in Europe. I work almost 900 hours a year (that's the legal limit) and 1000 hours for the last 12 months. I frequently fly to airports with special crew training requirements. (I'm not complaining, it is fun to fly to those destinations). Most of the time I fly with first officers with minimum hours. Like 300 total flying time. (200 hours from the flight school, 100 hours from Lifus training) With deadhead flights included I fly 90-100 hours monthly. For instance this August I have 105 hours scheduled. Having said that, I make 10-11K dollars monthly. I have 25 days paid leave total. 16 days in winter period, 9 days in summer period. I can't even get it as a 25 day block. I have many night flights starting in the late evening until the late morning. I can't bid on any destinations and the layovers are like 12-16 hours at most. Roster changes are frequent and when you complain about a roster change you get a standard message saying "Due to operational reasons". I do not exaggerate a bit.

Even so, I am happy because I love flying and I respect my job. I try to do it as good as I can.

I am seriously considering applying for the EB2 Visa. My question is, people are complaining about being a junior captain in the US and terrible bid lines whatsoever. How bad could it be comparing my current flying schedule? If I were to work there and ended up with less favorable flights after others have bid for the desirable ones, would it really suck for me?

Thanks a lot. Happy contrails.

[Sunrig]

More time off? Could you eloborate please as I thought vacation days will be much less the first few years whilst part time is not an option I think with the US majors? As seniority will be low, the first few years I'd probably be on reserve and then getting productive bid lines with max days off will be near impossible?
Yes, that’s true about the vacation days. Usually first year one week and second year two weeks. But you can manipulate your schedule much better than you will ever be able to do it at an European carrier. It’s easier to drop/swap trips. That’s of course not possible being on reserve. But time to a line is not too long these days. Maybe just a couple of months on the narrow bodies. You can also go to the widebodies and if you live in base being on reserve is not a bad deal. I know several people who fly maybe 1 or 2 trips a month. You will be on short/long call the other days, but if you live in base you will have lots of time off. On the other hand- if you upgrade early, you will be years on reserve and fly the stuff nobody wants to fly. That’s why most people prefer to stay in the right seat and have better quality of life, more days off and make similar money through strategic bidding. That said, you have lots of choices here.

[Sunrig]

Hi,

I just wonder how bad could "bid lines" be and how little the annual vacations days are?

I work at a major airline in Europe. I work almost 900 hours a year (that's the legal limit) and 1000 hours for the last 12 months. I frequently fly to airports with special crew training requirements. (I'm not complaining, it is fun to fly to those destinations). Most of the time I fly with first officers with minimum hours. Like 300 total flying time. (200 hours from the flight school, 100 hours from Lifus training) With deadhead flights included I fly 90-100 hours monthly. For instance this August I have 105 hours scheduled. Having said that, I make 10-11K dollars monthly. I have 25 days paid leave total. 16 days in winter period, 9 days in summer period. I can't even get it as a 25 day block. I have many night flights starting in the late evening until the late morning. I can't bid on any destinations and the layovers are like 12-16 hours at most. Roster changes are frequent and when you complain about a roster change you get a standard message saying "Due to operational reasons". I do not exaggerate a bit.

Even so, I am happy because I love flying and I respect my job. I try to do it as good as I can.

I am seriously considering applying for the EB2 Visa. My question is, people are complaining about being a junior captain in the US and terrible bid lines whatsoever. How bad could it be comparing my current flying schedule? If I were to work there and ended up with less favorable flights after others have bid for the desirable ones, would it really suck for me?

Thanks a lot. Happy contrails.

I would say come on over. You probably won’t have anything close to what you describe in your schedule here. So even if you upgrade to Captain after you have your 1000 hours in the right seat it will feel like vacation for you. For better Qol you can also stay in the right seat and will still make more money than you’re getting now. I know a lot of people who fly 3/400 hours a year. As a junior Captain you might fly close to 800 though. But you get paid much better then.

[fisher22]

Hi,

I just wonder how bad could "bid lines" be and how little the annual vacations days are?

I work at a major airline in Europe. I work almost 900 hours a year (that's the legal limit) and 1000 hours for the last 12 months. I frequently fly to airports with special crew training requirements. (I'm not complaining, it is fun to fly to those destinations). Most of the time I fly with first officers with minimum hours. Like 300 total flying time. (200 hours from the flight school, 100 hours from Lifus training) With deadhead flights included I fly 90-100 hours monthly. For instance this August I have 105 hours scheduled. Having said that, I make 10-11K dollars monthly. I have 25 days paid leave total. 16 days in winter period, 9 days in summer period. I can't even get it as a 25 day block. I have many night flights starting in the late evening until the late morning. I can't bid on any destinations and the layovers are like 12-16 hours at most. Roster changes are frequent and when you complain about a roster change you get a standard message saying "Due to operational reasons". I do not exaggerate a bit.

Even so, I am happy because I love flying and I respect my job. I try to do it as good as I can.

I am seriously considering applying for the EB2 Visa. My question is, people are complaining about being a junior captain in the US and terrible bid lines whatsoever. How bad could it be comparing my current flying schedule? If I were to work there and ended up with less favorable flights after others have bid for the desirable ones, would it really suck for me?

Thanks a lot. Happy contrails.

Which country?

[Fly_John]

After attempting the EB2-NIW I feel I need to warn everyone out there.

The blood sucking lawyers out there saw an opportunity to cash in and boy-oh-boy did they ! This visa category is not really applicable to pilots, if you are “just” a line pilot, maybe if you wrote a new training manual or developed a new training system or something else exceptional you might qualify. I have 20+ year experience, Captain wideboby.

Even after meeting the criteria for the exceptional ability part, there is almost no way of meeting the National Importance or Beneficial to the US to waive a job offer Dhanasar prongs. Just citing a pilot shortage is not enough, as many (including the USCIS) believe there isn’t one.

In my case, and many other colleagues I have spoken to, the reply from the USCIS was that just being a pilot going to fly for 1 airline is not of national importance or beneficial to the US, which makes sense, 1 pilot is not going to make any difference in the great scheme of things.

Some pilots did get their applications approved, I personally know a few, but I know many many more who didn’t. Maybe the case officer had a great day, who knows. In short it is a very subjective process, it all depends on the case officer, you have the same chance of success applying for the Diversity Visa Lottery.

If you are going to attempt the application at least do yourself a favour and go with a “cheap” lawyer, there’s a company out there charging $5000 up front, and only if you’re petition is successful will you pay the remaining amount. The firm I went with ( which I will regret to my dying day ) charged upwards of $12000 up front and the service I received was terrible and after almost 5 months the petition they filed was no better than the $5000 law firm, in fact I could have downloaded a template and done a better job over a weekend. AG

Don’t believe any lawyer, they will tell you anything to get your retainer, always with the caveat (softly whispered) that they off course cannot guarantee success. A year or 2 ago there might have been a better chance of success, but as previously mentioned in this forum, the door seems to be closing rapidly.

I didn’t do enough research, fell for the lawyers sales pitch and lost a ridiculous amount of money.. In the immortal words of Forest Gump : Stupid is as stupid does.

[FourStripes]

PunchesPilot7:

A few questions for you.

1. Do you have a FAA ATPL Certificate?
2. Do you have any sort of FAA pilot training done to add to your qualifications?

I find it hard that you got denied for the EB2-NIW with your experience as you have stated. However it also boils down on how you frame your argument witht USCIS and how you position yourself towards the need of the United States as part of a national interest solution.

I have a fraction of your total time with a non aviation related degree and I was approved last year. You can say I was one of the few who got lucky but it seems to me it really is how the packet was composed and what kind of evidence you provided with your case.

If you are really intent on working in the US, there is always the diversity visa or gamble another $700 to write another packet.

keep the blue side up.

FourStripes

[RedBelt]

I am sure American pilots who have fought very hard for the last several years (couple of decades really) to get their compensation back to appropriate levels will be thrilled by “invading” European pilots willing to work for peanuts and subpar conditions diluting the US pilot workforce. One can blame the European airlines (or even the EU) for the steady race to the bottom, but in the end it is the pilots themselves who allowed it to happen.

I say this as a European with a Green Card since more than a decade back and who has refused to participate in the lousy European aviation market (Green Card or not I have never actually worked in Europe) due to the above. Too many pilots in euroland willing to sell their mother to stay flying all while just thinking about “me, me, me now” instead of “us and long term” which is the main difference in the mentality between (the majority of) European and US pilots. Any European pilot making the move across the pond better be ready to ditch that attitude real fast or you won’t make any friends in the US pilot group.

Ducking for cover…

You are lucky not to have worked for any European operator!
I don't blame European pilots too much but I recognize they share part of the blame. The biggest goes to the industry...they started everything....it is a mafia racing to the bottom regarding pilot's T&C's, EASA accepts their power and goes along.
All over he world the travel industry have increased their margins and their profits since COVID live never seen before, nevertheless with the exception of the US and in part the ME crew T&C's have remained the same.
The biggest problem for the aviation industry in Europe would be if the US would qualify in congress the pilot job as "Exceptional Abilities' opening the door to pilots being able to apply to jobs in the US and the employers knowing that an European Pilots would be able to start next week. This will not happen for several reasons but from the European point of view this would disrupt completely the rigged aviation market in Europe for pilots.

[pilotwannabe101]

Hi everyone,

Great thread, very informative.

I'm UK based Captain at Gatwick with EasyJet, 4000hrs , 500 PIC, 8 years in the company, batchelors degree. 40 years old.
Although Easyjet has been a good starting block for my career I don't feel that the next 25 years of my working life with be low cost around Europe with their grueling summer schedule, I know I'll be moving, but the question is where...
As Emirates isn't an option for me (Dog's on banned breed list), and China money is attractive but doesn't offer an attractive life style for the family, the USA stands out above the rest. I've heard of many FO's and Captains jumping to the US but obviously the process is quite time consuming and potencially very expensive. I guess I just have 1 big question and would like some clarification/confirmation on the process before I start this ball rolling if I may....

1. Am I able to hold both an ICAO and FAA licence at the same time, as I would need to continue working in the UK as normal as this 'conversion' is in process.

Whats the best order to start this process;
Apply for a FAA licence
Obtain a FAA inital medical (this can be done in the UK)
Complete the ATL exam (one big exam, multiple choice)
Complete the check ride/sim check
Obtain the green card/visa

Then I'm able to start applying for FO positions with airlines...


I know that some have hired 'brokers' or laywers to complete some of this, but could I get company names or links to there services please...

Thanks for your time and effort in replying.

[FourStripes]

Hi everyone,



Whats the best order to start this process;
Apply for a FAA licence
Obtain a FAA inital medical (this can be done in the UK)
Complete the ATL exam (one big exam, multiple choice)
Complete the check ride/sim check
Obtain the green card/visa

Then I'm able to start applying for FO positions with airlines...


I know that some have hired 'brokers' or laywers to complete some of this, but could I get company names or links to there services please...

Thanks for your time and effort in replying.

Best to secure the FAA ATP Certicate and move on from there. It does not matter if you do it on a multiengine. But if you have the money you can shop around and do the sim with your type rating on the ATP.

Then start writing your EB2 NIW packet. or find a sponsor like Atlas Air. Either way, the ATP certificate is the foundation of your journey.

keep the blue side up.

4S

[pilotwannabe101]

Thanks for the reply,

So Licence, ATP exam and check ride....

[bafanguy]

Thanks for the reply,

So Licence, ATP exam and check ride....

pw101,

In order to take the FAA ATPL written exam, you need to complete an ATP-CTP course like the example linked below. And yes, it's an expensive slap in the face for a person of your experience but there's no way around it.

You can get the ATP and type rating in one checkride. You'd want to select the type you currently fly. The KMIA area is a hotbed of organizations doing such training. Good luck, you've got your work cut out for you.

https://atpflightschool.com/atp/ctp/

[Oldaircrew]

PW101, Sent you a pm.

[wing-man]

pw101,

In order to take the FAA ATPL written exam, you need to complete an ATP-CTP course like the example linked below. And yes, it's an expensive slap in the face for a person of your experience but there's no way around it.

You can get the ATP and type rating in one checkride. You'd want to select the type you currently fly. The KMIA area is a hotbed of organizations doing such training. Good luck, you've got your work cut out for you.

https://atpflightschool.com/atp/ctp/

You can not get the type rating in one check ride. If you want to have the typerating on your FAA ATP you have to do a type rating course in the US. You can however do a shortened one if you have experience already.

[wing-man]

Best to secure the FAA ATP Certicate and move on from there. It does not matter if you do it on a multiengine. But if you have the money you can shop around and do the sim with your type rating on the ATP.

Then start writing your EB2 NIW packet. or find a sponsor like Atlas Air. Either way, the ATP certificate is the foundation of your journey.

keep the blue side up.

4S

Atlas Air doesn't sponsor you to obtain a visa. It is very hard anyway to find an airline who's willing to sponsor you. They all require you to have the right to work and live in the US before they hire you. And how you get it, that is up to you.
Also, you do not require an ATP to be successful in the EB2NIW. So it's up to you if you want to spend money on it before hand or just wait wether you get approved or not. One of the requirements of the EB2 is to have a license, but it doesn't say it has to be an American license.

[bafanguy]

[QUOTE=wing-man;11494952]You can not get the type rating in one check ride. [QUOTE]

wing-man,

Not sure what you mean. I know someone who got their initial FAA ATP and a type rating which were issued on the basis of one check ride. Of course, they had to take an abbreviated course (they had flown the type overseas) at a training organization prior to the check ride.

I didn't mean to say a person can walk in off the street, jump in a sim and get the ATP and type rating in one session at the training organization with no prior sim sessions. A person must be recommended for the check ride and no training organization will do that without seeing how the applicant performs.

I didn't explain myself very well. I meant that the check ride for the ATP and the type rating don't have to be two separate events.

[tume]

In line with recent posts, they don't want foreign Airline Pilots there. The Case Was Denied.

FAA ATP, CFI, CFI-I
Bachelor's Degree from a U.S. University (Aviation major)
10 years+ aviation work experience
5000h+ TT
Previously FAA Part 135 FO
U.S. 501(c)(3) Nonprofit flying
A320 FO in a European flag carrier
Besides U.S. instructor experience, Line Training Captain in Europe on a turboprop, among other positions in aviation
Conditional Job Offer from a East Coast Part 135 company (DEC + instructor position)
5 Reference Letters, and Expert Opinion Letter by a U.S. University Professor
Helped save lives of American SOF in Afghanistan (also other deployments)

Yet they hand out visas to interpreters and Afghans who don't know how to read or speak English, as they hand out to a Russian Crossfit (brand, not a pro sport) athlete who can't speak English and his family.

And the Immigration Lawyer offices keep advertising that regular Airline Pilots who have 10+ years work experience can qualify for the EB-2 NIW.

As 1st Sgt Edward Welsh stated in The Thin Red Line, "They want you dead, or in their lie.", more fittingly: "They want your money, and in their lie."

[FourStripes]

In line with recent posts, they don't want foreign Airline Pilots there. The Case Was Denied.

FAA ATP, CFI, CFI-I
Bachelor's Degree from a U.S. University (Aviation major)
10 years+ aviation work experience
5000h+ TT
Previously FAA Part 135 FO
A320 FO in a European flag carrier
Besides U.S. instructor experience, Line Training Captain in Europe on a turboprop, among other positions in aviation
Conditional Job Offer from a East Coast Part 135 company (DEC + instructor position)
5 Reference Letters, and Expert Opinion Letter by a U.S. University Professor
Helped save lives of American SOF in Afghanistan (also other deployments)

Yet they hand out visas to interpreters and Afghans who don't know how to read or speak English, as they hand out to a Russian Crossfit (brand, not a pro sport) athlete who can't speak English and his family.

And the Immigration Lawyer offices keep advertising that regular Airline Pilots who have 10+ years work experience can qualify for the EB-2 NIW.

As 1st Sgt Edward Welsh stated in The Thin Red Line, "They want you dead, or in their lie.", more fittingly: "They want your money, and in their lie."


Your experience looks good on paper. Maybe your lawyers did not capitalize on them and was not able to frame the case properly. Also the timing of your NIW case plays a big factor as well and if it was transferred to a Service Center that is known for turning down NIW cases. lots of variables to consider. Mine got transferred to NBC in Missouri and got approved.

[FalseGS]

The end result has become so subjective depending on the case officer.

I had an FAA commercial certificate and, evidently, it was enough.
No extraordinary qualifications but didn't seem to matter.

As mentioned, the region your file is sent to might make the difference.
My file went to Nebraska and was approved within two weeks.

Sadly, it's starting to look like luck plays a bigger role than a candidate's qualifications.
Good luck to all.

[FourStripes]

Effective Sep 1. 2023 Visa Bulletin

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/959x333/capture000_64eaf386cc0d48febbd9f8881c12f5f0e9694dec.jpg

[tume]

The only possible address to file I-140 by itself outside the U.S. is Dallas, TX (USPS)/Lewisville, TX (Fedex/UPS). And the only place to send the RFE response (which this was) is Irving, TX. All I know, the same officer could have processed both of them. It's all a crapshoot.

Also the timing of your NIW case plays a big factor as well and if it was transferred to a Service Center that is known for turning down NIW cases. lots of variables to consider. Mine got transferred to NBC in Missouri and got approved.

[zerograv]

And yes, Atlas Air did sponsor in the early part of 2022.

I did an ATP-CTP with Atlas in March 2022. Did ask if there was any chance, and essentially was told ... not the case.

Are you from Aussieland ? It's a different ball game if you are from Australia.

As mentioned, the region your file is sent to might make the difference.
My file went to Nebraska and was approved within two weeks.

It's my understanding that applicants from 'North America', that is to say, Canada and Mexico, have a different processing channel, which, from what you say, also includes Nebraska.
The rest of the world, it seems, it is only via Lewisville and/or Irving TX.

[bentley01]

We,like the idea of a move to the US as a family but I wonder at 54 if I am too old to be approved for the visa. I have around 15000 hours and I am a TRE on three jet types including the B738. Is this considered exceptional in terms of the criteria?

[FourStripes]

We,like the idea of a move to the US as a family but I wonder at 54 if I am too old to be approved for the visa. I have around 15000 hours and I am a TRE on three jet types including the B738. Is this considered exceptional in terms of the criteria?

You will never know until you try.
You have nothing to lose if you write your own case. And depending on how you frame your arguments maybe 54 is not such a bad age.
I am sure you can spare $700 dollars for the filing fee plus courier charges. If not, stay where you are.

[fenirlix]

Any FO success in petition?

[tume]

I was just about my highest degree, and if I'm planning to work as a pilot in the US.
no, we haven't landed in the US yet. But you have to pay before you go to the border.
I don't think there will be any.
Good luck!

YYZ_bound can you make room in your inbox? Thanks.

[FourStripes]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/642x233/tempsnip_647119de753cda9a5d02306f4d0b68a531de5a27.jpg
Effective October 1, 2023

[Commuting101]

Maybe the law firms who read this read could chime in and let us know how the fact that the EB2 that’s usually current at the start of the fiscal year is now 15 months in arrears? Is it because of over demand? Will it move forward gradually month to month or now only every quarter?
I guess it’s fair to say - 2 years from initial interview with a law firm to getting the visa is now optimistic at best.

[FourStripes]

how the fact that the EB2 that’s usually current at the start of the fiscal year is now 15 months in arrears?
Is it because of over demand? Will it move forward gradually month to month or now only every quarter?
I guess it’s fair to say - 2 years from initial interview with a law firm to getting the visa is now optimistic at best.

It will move when NVC determines the worldwide supply is slowly increasing. NVC has the job to balance the 56,342 EB visa to the worldwide demand. Every country has an annual cap of 3,943 EB2 visa to be issued.
2 years is a good metric from your receipt date until you are standing in front of the interview window of the US Embassy in your home country.

[hunterboy]

Just in time for the next downturn in the aviation sector then.

[FourStripes]

Just in time for the next downturn in the aviation sector then.

The good thing with the EB2 case is you end up with a green card and be legal to work in any industry without the fear of being deported. If you have other skills like flipping burgers, you won't have to worry about ICE hunting you down to be deported.

[polarisfib]

Your experience looks good on paper. Maybe your lawyers did not capitalize on them and was not able to frame the case properly. Also the timing of your NIW case plays a big factor as well and if it was transferred to a Service Center that is known for turning down NIW cases. lots of variables to consider. Mine got transferred to NBC in Missouri and got approved.
NBC in Missouri? I thought only Texas and Nebraska was possible.....

[FourStripes]

Texas Service Center forwarded it to NBC. USCIS moves cases to other Service Centers to equalize work load. This is another factor if your case gets approved or not. There are other Service Centers that are known to deny or ask for more evidence after the initial submission.

[FourStripes]

The 2025 Diversity Visa Program is now open!
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/896x896/386655452_704008871762166_440148294906696584_n_78dde81c3e337 a9c6a65819803f777a291351bbe.jpg

[Commuting101]

Moved forward another week. At this rate the EB2 is in trouble. Buyer beware.

Jose Leon - how do you see the next few bulletins playing out? And the future - will the EB2 catch up again?

[JoseLeon]

We received two approvals last week.

Profiles:

Profile 1: Wide body FO with over 10 years experience, no degree.
Profile 2: Regional CA with a mechanical engineering degree.

[JoseLeon]

We,like the idea of a move to the US as a family but I wonder at 54 if I am too old to be approved for the visa. I have around 15000 hours and I am a TRE on three jet types including the B738. Is this considered exceptional in terms of the criteria?

I think you would have a solid foundation, however, I would have to see your entire profile.

[FourStripes]

Effective November 1, 2023

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/784x553/tempsnip_7d04bebfd0b1c1b94d520df002f00c9d403e2643.png

[LTCTerry]

The interpreters risked their life to help the US Military. Keeping them from being murdered is not such a bad reward.

[CL605driver]

Reading this all with great interest.

Sooo, Im 50, had an extensive career in business aviation and am an airline captain nowadays.
10.000 hours+, 3000 hours PIC A320/B737.

If I manage to get the EB-2 visa I have to fly as a FO for at least a 1000 hours.
What is is the better option, go for a major airline and hope to upgrade in a year and a half? PIC for a 135 on a CRJ or back into business aviation?.

And regarding the business aviation part, I don't want to be on standby the whole time and have a great income (I know )

Quality of life thing and such...

What's the feedback here?

[FourStripes]

Reading this all with great interest.

Sooo, Im 50, had an extensive career in business aviation and am an airline captain nowadays.
10.000 hours+, 3000 hours PIC A320/B737.

If I manage to get the EB-2 visa I have to fly as a FO for at least a 1000 hours.
What is is the better option, go for a major airline and hope to upgrade in a year and a half? PIC for a 135 on a CRJ or back into business aviation?.

And regarding the business aviation part, I don't want to be on standby the whole time and have a great income (I know )

Quality of life thing and such...

What's the feedback here?

Some points to consider:

1. Assuming you send in your packet today. It will take you 24 months to actually have the visa in your passport. Are you willing to wait that long?
2. If you are focused on this endeavor will you write your own case or will you seek a good immigration lawyer?
3. Because of Part 121.436 PIC upgrade can only be possible after 1000 hours with a 121 ops carrier. The workaround is go Part 135 PIC as soon as you land Stateside.
4. Lots of Part 91 jobs as well, you also need to have a good network if you are a bit picky about QOL.
5. Do you have any FAA certificates?

[Sunrig]

Reading this all with great interest.

Sooo, Im 50, had an extensive career in business aviation and am an airline captain nowadays.
10.000 hours+, 3000 hours PIC A320/B737.

If I manage to get the EB-2 visa I have to fly as a FO for at least a 1000 hours.
What is is the better option, go for a major airline and hope to upgrade in a year and a half? PIC for a 135 on a CRJ or back into business aviation?.

And regarding the business aviation part, I don't want to be on standby the whole time and have a great income (I know )

Quality of life thing and such...

What's the feedback here?

Since you mentioned QOL and not wanting to be on reserve/ standby….
I wouldn’t recommend taking the first available upgrade at an airline then. The US are very different when it comes to scheduling. It’s all seniority based. Life as a junior Captain is for most people not something that is desirable.
Usually your life will be better in the right seat. That’s why you see so many “old” FOs here. You will have more days off, weekends off, get your vacation when you want to and have the opportunity to make double pay by getting premium trips. That basically results in similar pay to a Captain but with way better QOL. I can’t speak for corporate or business aviation. Good luck. I don’t regret the move.

[migrant]

Hi Everyone!

I’m excited to share that my EB-2 NIW (National Interest Waiver) petition has been approved! 🎉

This journey was challenging, to say the least, and it involved responding to a seventeen page Request for Evidence (RFE). I must admit, at first, I wasn’t even sure if we should take on this uphill battle.

After careful consideration with my attorney and paralegal, we decided to go ahead and respond to the RFE, taking the chance to fight for the approval. After all, you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take but it’s definitely a very challenging process overall.
Submitted the i-140 (eb2 niw with premium processing) in June, RFE in July, response to RFE in a the beginning of October and final approval just a couple of days ago.

I’m 41, 10.000hrs mostly in Airbus (a320/330/340), 4.000 PIC. Bachelors degree in Aviation from Sydney. Additionally, entrepreneurial background in two previous businesses and training experience as LTC.

Good luck to everyone pursuing this path!

[bafanguy]

migrant,

Congrats on your considerable effort. What's your goal in the USA now that you have the legal ability to live/work here ?

Have you communicated with any airlines here ?

Do you have FAA tickets ?

[FourStripes]

Can we get a survey of those at the NVC stage and is waiting for the Visa Bulletin to advance. Indicate your priority date as well.

Priority Date:
Consulate or Embassy:

[737pilotguy]

migrant,

Congrats on your considerable effort. What's your goal in the USA now that you have the legal ability to live/work here ?

Have you communicated with any airlines here ?

Do you have FAA tickets ?


I'm quite sure that you can't apply to the legacies without having the actual green card in hand, and a social security number, unless you have some "backdoor contacts" to apply through. If you do, please message me 🙏 I've got an FAA ATP and just waiting for the green card to move over. My petition for an EB2 was approved in October 2022. I've been waiting for my priority date to become current and to get an embassy interview since May 2023.
My priority date is 19th of September 2022, embassy in Europe.

[migrant]

Hi guys,

I still haven’t done the FAA licence conversion, any suggestions for training centers in the Miami area? Prices have gone up quite a lot. It should take a while for my interview since priority date is June/23.

Thanks

[bafanguy]

Hi guys,

I still haven’t done the FAA licence conversion, any suggestions for training centers in the Miami area? Prices have gone up quite a lot. It should take a while for my interview since priority date is June/23.

Thanks

migrant,

There are a few in KMIA but I can't attest to the quality of any of them. Pan AM Academy is a long time provider. You didn't mention what aircraft type you'd be using so that may influence your choice. You can Google to see the available ones.

At the risk of telling you something you already know, you'll have to take that ATP-CTP course to be allowed to take the ATP written. This will be an expensive slap in the face to someone like you but it's government at work. I don't know if all the training providers in KMIA also offer the ATP-CTP course so that might also influence your choice. Pan Am Academy appears to offer it.

[Sunrig]

Hi guys,

I still haven’t done the FAA licence conversion, any suggestions for training centers in the Miami area? Prices have gone up quite a lot. It should take a while for my interview since priority date is June/23.

Thanks
I did it in 2018 at Pan Am. I did a shortened Type rating course that was really quick. Everything was a bit disorganized but it worked out fine. Just be aware that you need a TSA clearance anytime you train in a simulator. That can take a couple of months to get approved for the first time.

[737pilotguy]

I completed my ATP at FTI in Miami, they had greater flexibility regarding scheduling than PanAm did, in my case. For the ATP-CTP, as previously stated, it's not an efficient use of time nor money for pilots already flying commercially and flying jets. Find the cheapest provider you can find. I have colleagues who got a discount doing both at the same provider. FAA has a pdf with approved ATP-CTP providers (https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/pilots/training/atp/ATP_CTP_Providers.pdf).

[FourStripes]

To migrant:

What date is your Priority Date?

[losbol]

Good evening,

I have an appointment with these guys. But I postponed it once already due to the finances.
alliance-training.com
I have one colleaugue who gave me a good review. When I am finished I will sent you guys my review. They promise an interview with an airline and possibly a job...

[bafanguy]

I have an appointment with these guys.. They promise an interview with an airline and possibly a job...

losbol,

Interesting that Alliance Training is promising an interview. I looked at their website and find that only Avelo Airlines is mentioned. So, can I assume that's the airline they offer an interview with ?

Also, what visa/citizenship status do you have that would enable you to accept a job with someone like Avelo ? Is Avelo helping people with visas, etc ?

[FourStripes]

Good evening,

I have an appointment with these guys. But I postponed it once already due to the finances.
alliance-training.com
I have one colleaugue who gave me a good review. When I am finished I will sent you guys my review. They promise an interview with an airline and possibly a job...

You will interview with them, but you need to pay for the TR then after getting the TR they will endorse you to Avelo. Avelo then will decide if you are worth sponsoring. All in all you still need to to pay. You are better off applying with the DV visa or write your own EB2-NIW case.

[losbol]

Good morning Bafanguy, and Fourstripes

From what information I got I actually only need them for the ATP CTP. Dutch nationality.
Avelo is a nice airline if you value QOL. From my conversation with them that is what was told to me, an interview and possibly a job at Avelo.
But as Fourstripes correctly stated a part of it is probably marketing. Once you have your greencard you can head ANYWHERE. even with my limited experience (1900 hrs TT/F50 and 737).

I went to a job fair last September and my impression is that the following airlines are willing to look at foreigners. EB2-NIW to be specific.
1) Breeze
2) Allegiant
3) Avelo
4) Skywest (via Rishworth)\
5) Atlas Air

Also have a look at this database. Here you can find the companies who have sponsored greencards in the past years, and most importantly the legal teams that assisted in the process. Immihelp is the wbsite. I cannot post url yet so wiill do that later..

The H1b is more popular since they have a bit more control over you as a pilot....

Regards

[FourStripes]

losbol (https://www.pprune.org/members/62133-losbol)

Did you actually apply via Alliance?
If you do, It would be interesting to know how exactly will they sponsor foreign pilots. Will it be H-1B or EB-3?

Do let us know.

4S

[losbol]

Results of H1B Sponsors pilot - 2023 - Page 1 (immihelp.com) (https://www.immihelp.com/h1b-visa-sponsors/search-results/)

Results of Greencard Sponsors pilot - 2023 - Page 3 (immihelp.com) (https://www.immihelp.com/greencard-sponsors/search-results/)

[FourStripes]

The bottom line here is no US Airline will consider you for sponsorship since it is a lenghtly process, either via the EB category or H1-B category. If ever you do find a sponsor, you would still be shouldering the legal fees of the sponsoring company (don't ask me how I know)

The best and the cheapest way is to write your own EB2-NIW case, wait for the approval and arrive in the US as a Permanent Resident, again don't ask me how I know.

Otherwise if you are one of the lucky ones, you can join the Diversity Visa Lottery.

[737pilotguy]

Final action date for EB2 moved forward considerably last night 👍
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/720x426/screenshot_20231211_192851_brave_a95ecee1138f517f58b2be1438c 680a147e5c069.jpg

[JoseLeon]

Received an approval yesterday without an RFE: Wide-body TRI/TRE with a military background.

Other pending RFE’s usually going after the NIW prongs.

If you have an aviation bachelors, to include aviation management, it is viable. The pure exceptional abilities clients are definitely more difficult and we carefully screening those.

Good luck to all as it’s very dependent on the service center and the adjudicator working your file.

[Ash Ketchum]

Has anyone had success with an RFE recently? I self petitioned a few months ago and they challenged all 3 prongs saying that an airline pilot is not of national importance and that a pilot shortage is not a valid argument for national importance .

[FourStripes]

Has anyone had success with an RFE recently? I self petitioned a few months ago and they challenged all 3 prongs saying that an airline pilot is not of national importance and that a pilot shortage is not a valid argument for national importance .


As Jose Leon mentioned a while back, it really depends on the USCIS adjudicator who will review your case.
The Service Center it ends up with also is a factor in the approval.
The way you wrote your arguments and the key points and other statistics you included is also a factor.
Your qualifications also play into the final decision.

There are 2 options for you:

1. Write a new case or
2. Answer the RFE and make a strong argument with lots of news clippings and pilot shortage statistics and charts.

good luck.

[awair]

Has anyone had success with an RFE recently? I self petitioned a few months ago and they challenged all 3 prongs saying that an airline pilot is not of national importance and that a pilot shortage is not a valid argument for national importance .

Their reasoning is that the shortage is a situation designed to justify “that the labor certification will be successful”.

There are other, more reliable arguments for National Importance.

[Ash Ketchum]

Their reasoning is that the shortage is a situation designed to justify “that the labor certification will be successful”.

There are other, more reliable arguments for National Importance.

Yes, after speaking to other pilots at my Canadian airline it seems that there have been other recent denials and RFEs and many have used the same "pilot shortage" argument.

From my RFE letter, it seems that a stronger argument would be a plan to help train American pilots at the airline level to advance the national interest instead of just doing airline flying as a line pilot.

I am thinking an airline pilot who is also a TRI/TRE or maybe a pilot starting an aviation business in the US and planning to hire American pilots would be a stronger argument and more likely to make it through.

Unfortunately, I don't have training experience at the airline level so I can't use that as a valid argument in my case.

[awair]

Yes, after speaking to other pilots at my Canadian airline it seems that there have been other recent denials and RFEs and many have used the same "pilot shortage" argument.

From my RFE letter, it seems that a stronger argument would be a plan to help train American pilots at the airline level to advance the national interest instead of just doing airline flying as a line pilot.

I am thinking an airline pilot who is also a TRI/TRE or maybe a pilot starting an aviation business in the US and planning to hire American pilots would be a stronger argument and more likely to make it through.

Unfortunately, I don't have training experience at the airline level so I can't use that as a valid argument in my case.

This is a successful line of argument for the NIW. Even without TRE/TRI experience, you could advance that Command experience places one in a good position to Mentor, and hence benefit flight safety.

[HotelGolfBravo]

How does one start the process to apply for a green card with the EB2 coming from Europe? Outside of aviation I have a BEng and MSc from my previous career. Would this hold some weight when I comes to making the application?

[Skipper21]

Hi everyone, I can present you my case

I have been approved NIW, having around 9000 h mostly Boeing, involved in training for about 5 years, altogether in industry for about 15 years. I also have bachellor degrees in economics and mech. engineering. From EU, I have used one of the respected law firms for application, paid a lot of money for it, but must say they were very professional and competent. I was warned that there is no guarantees, so I went into it with my mind set that all the money and time spent can be for nothing, but I was lucky at the end. So now I am waiting for my date for visa...

I am actively working now on my license conversion. If anyone is looking for a sim partner or just someone to share some experiences about conversion or job search, you can contact me.
Good luck to everyone looking for a change!

[737pilotguy]

How does one start the process to apply for a green card with the EB2 coming from Europe? Outside of aviation I have a BEng and MSc from my previous career. Would this hold some weight when I comes to making the application?

I would recommend contacting a lawyer. My lawyer has been, and still is, great for me. Immigration is a daunting process and having guidance is essential (in my opinion). There are people that self-petition and succeed, but how you present your case to the USCIS is crucial to any potential success. A lawyer could assess your case and advise you if your profile could be successful. You must satisfy three prongs for an NIW. Good luck.

[havick]

I would recommend contacting a lawyer. My lawyer has been, and still is, great for me. Immigration is a daunting process and having guidance is essential (in my opinion). There are people that self-petition and succeed, but how you present your case to the USCIS is crucial to any potential success. A lawyer could assess your case and advise you if your profile could be successful. You must satisfy three prongs for an NIW. Good luck.

To play devil’s advocate, immigration lawyers have a vested interest to paint the picture that you have a good chance of being approved. They get paid if you’re successful or not.

[awair]

No improvement in the priority date for EB2 with the February Visa Bulletin.

[Skipper21]

Could someone explain what is a radio operators permit, that all the companies require for the aplication? Is there some kind of a training required for it?

[awair]

First of all it’s an anachronism.

Domestic operations in the US do not require a radio operator certificate. Some other states include this as part of a pilot certificate.

The government agency issuing these permits regulates the airwaves, not aviation. This applies in both US and Canada.

Apply to the respective ministry in each country for the certificate. In this case, the FCC.

Good luck.

[awair]

A quick search shows Form 605 is required. Try this link:

https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/support/knowledge-base/fcc-form-605

[bafanguy]

Could someone explain what is a radio operators permit... Is there some kind of a training required for it?

The only training is learning where to send money to the Imperial Federal Kakistocracy and their buildings full of useless cubicle droids.

[Skipper21]

First of all it’s an anachronism.

Domestic operations in the US do not require a radio operator certificate. Some other states include this as part of a pilot certificate.

The government agency issuing these permits regulates the airwaves, not aviation. This applies in both US and Canada.

Apply to the respective ministry in each country for the certificate. In this case, the FCC.

Good luck.
Thanks guys, I thought so that it's something burocratic.

On another topic. Would someone that jumped from Europe to US recently share some thoughts about what are the biggest differences working wise. And I mean operationally, actually flying the aircrafts, handlings at the airports etc. I am wondering what I need to prepare myself for.

[fisher22]

I submitted my EB2 case in June 2023, received an RFE in September, submitted it in December and finally got a response a few days ago, my case was denied. My argument was pretty much the same as everyone else's.

For context, I'm a run of the mill 787 FO, 8,000 hours, I did my flight training in the US so I hold both FAA and ICAO ATP, no significant PIC time, no TRI/TRE, did some instruction at a flight school.

[737pilotguy]

Could someone explain what is a radio operators permit, that all the companies require for the aplication? Is there some kind of a training required for it?

There's no training required, it's just a tick in the box. You want the restricted radiotelephone operator permit.
Follow the steps on this website: https://www.aviator.zone/pireps/2021/2/1/how-to-get-fcc-license

[galaxy flyer]

Thanks guys, I thought so that it's something burocratic.

On another topic. Would someone that jumped from Europe to US recently share some thoughts about what are the biggest differences working wise. And I mean operationally, actually flying the aircrafts, handlings at the airports etc. I am wondering what I need to prepare myself for.

Yank here, but familiar with EU ways. First, we have a significant minority that we think speak Spanish, you might differ in that opinion.

Seniority is everything, esp new hire you don’t have any, so schedule, seat, time off, vacation will set by that fact. As more get hired below you, life improves. Airplanes fly the same, but we’re less attached to theoretical knowledge. Our tests for license conversion is off an open question bank, memorize the answers, you’re done. Commuting is common, so live where you want IF you can accept the travel to/from on your own time. We probably work harder (more days, more hours) but earn more for it. Contracts are filled with arcane rules that means one can hit the lottery for a big payoff or, not being knowledgeable, lose out.

[Baker262]

Hey guys hope you are doing fine.
I present you my case to see if anyone could help me.
I am an A320 FO with 2000+ hours and 23 years old and I am planning to go to the US to work there as I have a lot of family there and conditions are 1000 times better than Europe.
Short story my dad is a US citizen but never did any permit or green card 🥲 and because now I am older than 21 I need to go through the green card process as a son of a US citizen older than 21 which is 5+ years.

What I was wondering is if even that I do not have 10 years of experience, because 10 years ago I was 13, if I could apply to this “Pilot VISA” because I am the son a US citizen. I know is a hard question and if anyone knows a lawyer that could help me it would be super.

Also last topic and thank you for reading, is it hard to get a sponsorship from an airline in the US? And do you know any pilot with a sponsorship that I could contact ? Because that is my other option, to convert my EASA license to ATP and try to get a sponsorship.

Thank you very much guys, safe flights.🤘🏻✈️

[737pilotguy]

Hey guys hope you are doing fine.
I present you my case to see if anyone could help me.
I am an A320 FO with 2000+ hours and 23 years old and I am planning to go to the US to work there as I have a lot of family there and conditions are 1000 times better than Europe.
Short story my dad is a US citizen but never did any permit or green card 🥲 and because now I am older than 21 I need to go through the green card process as a son of a US citizen older than 21 which is 5+ years.

What I was wondering is if even that I do not have 10 years of experience, because 10 years ago I was 13, if I could apply to this “Pilot VISA” because I am the son a US citizen. I know is a hard question and if anyone knows a lawyer that could help me it would be super.

Also last topic and thank you for reading, is it hard to get a sponsorship from an airline in the US? And do you know any pilot with a sponsorship that I could contact ? Because that is my other option, to convert my EASA license to ATP and try to get a sponsorship.

Thank you very much guys, safe flights.🤘🏻✈️

Hi Baker,
Sorry to say, but if you're currently outside of the US, the F1 final action date is still at January 2015. You're looking at nine years wait time. I'd still start the process, alot will happen in the meantime. The wait will always be long, you might as well start the waiting period asap.

There is no specific "pilot visa" as you say. An EB2 visa is an employment-based visa based on your exceptional abilities and experience. Having family ties to the US won't help speed things up or make you any more qualified. I have family living in the US and this was not a factor in my petition and approval.

Finally, I am not aware of any airline sponsoring work visas to the US. I know Atlas sponsored H1B before but I think that's not the case anymore. Some regionals used to (Mesa, Skywest) sponsor E3 work visas to Australians as well. I don't know if that's still the case. But those visas are also temporary work visas, not immigration visas.

Start the F1 process and wait. Apply for the DV lottery and hope. Good luck.

[JoseLeon]

We just received an approval for a pilot with just widebody FO experience and an advanced degree. This was premium processing and no RFE.

With that said, the direct approval to RFE ratio is around 1:3 and pilots with stronger profiles are getting them.

[Armin06]

Hi,


jrkekr

[radarbeaam]

Hi everyone, I can present you my case

I have been approved NIW, having around 9000 h mostly Boeing, involved in training for about 5 years, altogether in industry for about 15 years. I also have bachellor degrees in economics and mech. engineering. From EU, I have used one of the respected law firms for application, paid a lot of money for it, but must say they were very professional and competent. I was warned that there is no guarantees, so I went into it with my mind set that all the money and time spent can be for nothing, but I was lucky at the end. So now I am waiting for my date for visa...

I am actively working now on my license conversion. If anyone is looking for a sim partner or just someone to share some experiences about conversion or job search, you can contact me.
Good luck to everyone looking for a change!


Hi, Skipper21, can you share what law firm you used? And what Center processed your application?

Yhank you

[Skipper21]

I used Harvey Law Group, and I must say that they were very professional and responsive. TBH I don't know which center processed the application.

[bafanguy]

Just out of idle curiosity, after people go to the considerable time/effort/expense of getting these visas, where do they find airline work in the USA...LCC, regional, legacy, ACMI, fractional ?

[goman1]

Hi Guys,

Does anyone have any experience as to how long embassy interview appointment takes in the ME? Date is current and has been for several months and yet still no update regarding an interview date. Any advice is much appreciated.

[737pilotguy]

Hi Guys,

Does anyone have any experience as to how long embassy interview appointment takes in the ME? Date is current and has been for several months and yet still no update regarding an interview date. Any advice is much appreciated.

I'd recommend trying to find a Facebook group, or to ask on visajourney forums. The wait time for an interview after your PD is current varies wildly depending on the embassy. Good luck.

[Amadis of Gaul]

Hi,

I'm an High School senior international student from Sweden, I would like to become a pilot in the US but I don't know if its possible due to the fact that I can't get a job without a Green Card. I don't know if I should study at an university in the US and do flight school with hopes of getting a green card or if I should go back to Europe and try to get a job there. Does anyone know what would be the best for me?

I would do flight school here in the US but university in Europe. That seems the cheapest and probably easiest way of doing it.

[FourStripes]

April 2024 Visa Bulletin. cases are moving along it seems.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1282x345/capture_1a8ecaa95f1a5ac3c4441c08a774dfe806e25684.jpg

[FourStripes]

May 2024 Visa Bulletin has no forward movement. Same dates as the April 2024 VB.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1282x345/capture_1a8ecaa95f1a5ac3c4441c08a774dfe806e25684_c63de9b2cbc b975967522302e226521aba58bb16.jpg

[exmm]

Fantastic wealth of information on this thread and interesting to see the highs/lows from people's personal experience

I'm looking at foreign options and have been offered a role in Australia. Does anyone know if it would be possible to get a citizenship in Aus (4 years with a valid visa) and then transfer using the Aussie E3 method to USA?

​​​​​​

[bafanguy]

I'm looking at foreign options and have been offered a role in Australia. Does anyone know if it would be possible to get a citizenship in Aus (4 years with a valid visa) and then transfer using the Aussie E3 method to USA?​​​​​​

If Australian citizenship is an E3 requirement...and you'd have Australian citizenship, it would seem to follow that you'd be eligible for an E3. The bigger question is whether the US carriers will be accepting E3s four years from now. I get the feeling the E3 ship may have sailed...just a feeling on my part.

[AirBoeing]

Not sure why you are applying for a green card (of course we don't know all the facts here) but some thoughts:

If you were born in another country and one of your parents is a U.S. citizen, you might become a U.S. citizen at birth if your parent lived in the U.S. for a certain time before you were born. If you didn't become a U.S. citizen at birth, you might still be able to become one because of your U.S. citizen parent. This is called "derivation of citizenship."

The wait time should be shorter.

[LimaVictor]

Gents,
I would appreciate any info from anyone who is in the process of applying for a EB2 visa.
I sent all the paperwork and petition last days of December 2023. Now 5 months later the USCIS replies asking for " additional evidence ".
I want to know if this is a "good" or a "bad" sign regarding my application? Anybody experienced this and what was the outcome? My feeling is that it's the beginning of a possible "reject" cause I have sent everything I got to show them my experience and commitment to obtain the work permit. I am also feeling that maybe my age, 56, could be a reason they will reject me.
What do you think? Any comments?
Thank you.

[Climb150]

RFE of "request for further evidence" is a prelim to rejection if you have sent everything already.

[awair]

RFE of "request for further evidence" is a second chance to restate your case. It is not a rejection, or that would have happened already.

Did you use a lawyer?

Read the RFE letter carefully, and answer their requests using their own words. Feel free to PM for a more detailed conversation.

Good luck!

[Climb150]

I never said RFE was a rejection. I said it's usually a prelim to a rejection if you have already supplied all the documents and evidence you have. If it's asking for something you didn't submit then there is a chance.

I know 2 people that had EB2 NIWs rejected at RFE because they could not prove how their experience was unique, or a shortage of people with his qualifications existed in the USA.

[LimaVictor]

Thank you awair and Climb150 for your inputs.
Yes I did use a lawyer and they told me they are figuring out what other evidence we could provide.
But I do have a feeling they are looking for excuses to reject me. I will try to find more references from previous and actual airline I'm flying for but this process it's like going to the Casino.

[FourStripes]

I entered the US last week. No problems with CBP. now I am waiting for my Social Security card and the physical green card to be mailed to me.

Does anyone know if some Part 91 Ops is hiring. Would appreciate the help.

[polarisfib]

Did you find a sim buddy?

[Dudule54]

Hey guys,
I am a captain in a major European airline, always wanted to move to USA, I’ve tried several years the diversity lottery with no positive results and tried the EB2 on my own a few years ago… same results.
I now have the opportunity to try the EB2 again with the help of someone who made it successfully, and getting is experience may help in doing it right this time…
My question to you guys is, what are the odds to a 50 yo captain to make this opportunity a successful and/or a wise move ?
I am willing to take the chance but a lot of uncertainties make me think about it, how long before I can get a job, will this job be better than the one I presently have, how about salaries and QOL, will my family be granted to move with me (a wife and 3 kids)…
Feedbacks welcome 😉

[bafanguy]

My question to you guys is, what are the odds to a 50 yo captain to make this opportunity a successful and/or a wise move ?
I am willing to take the chance but a lot of uncertainties make me think about it, how long before I can get a job, will this job be better than the one I presently have, how about salaries and QOL, will my family be granted to move with me (a wife and 3 kids)…


Those are tough questions to answer. I know nothing of the visa aspects because I don't know if that visa would be acceptable to a career-destination airline. Perhaps one of the ACMIs like Atlas ? I just don't know. And the prospective carrier may or may not provide training to get an FAA ATPL perhaps leaving you with the expensive and time-consuming task.

But my first impression is that you wouldn't have nearly the same job you have now. You'd be at the bottom of a seniority list and on reserve ( and vulnerable to lay offs) at low pay for an unknown length of time perhaps in a ERJ/CRJ at a regional airline. And due to FAA regulations, you wouldn't be put directly on the LHS in a Part 121 operation.

Best wishes for you in your pursuit.

[Dudule54]

To my understanding it is possible to apply to an F/O position in a legacy airline.
Last year I was in touch with an AA recruiter who told me that if I had an EB2 I could be interviewed… I applied to such a visa on my own and I failed.

[Sunrig]

Hey guys,
I am a captain in a major European airline, always wanted to move to USA, I’ve tried several years the diversity lottery with no positive results and tried the EB2 on my own a few years ago… same results.
I now have the opportunity to try the EB2 again with the help of someone who made it successfully, and getting is experience may help in doing it right this time…
My question to you guys is, what are the odds to a 50 yo captain to make this opportunity a successful and/or a wise move ?
I am willing to take the chance but a lot of uncertainties make me think about it, how long before I can get a job, will this job be better than the one I presently have, how about salaries and QOL, will my family be granted to move with me (a wife and 3 kids)…
Feedbacks welcome 😉
There are a lot of things that only you can answer if it is the right move for you and your family. I was in the same situation/ position as you 6 years ago and made the move. I’m overall very happy that I did it. I stayed 3 years at a LCC and I’m now at a Legacy carrier. The question that you should ask yourself is- are you willing to go back to the right seat for at least 1000 hours? You won’t be able to upgrade unless you have flown 1000 hours in a pt 121 operation. Unfortunately, all your foreign experience doesn’t count here. Regarding salaries- Go and check out APC. Take the hourly rate and multiply it by 1000. That should give you a good ballpark number of what salary to expect. If you get hired at a legacy carrier you should be making the same money latest around year 3 as an FO. Once you upgrade to Captain you should be around $300K. But also be aware that the cost of living is much higher in the US than in Europe. That is especially true for having 3 kids. Also know that seniority plays a much bigger role here in everything compared to Europe. That’s at least my experience. For example- if you upgrade to Captain early you won’t have a schedule for many years. You will be on reserve/ standby for a looooong time. That is something to think about. That is one of the reasons so many FOs don’t want to upgrade because you have a much better QOL and control over your schedule and your life. And with better seniority in the right seat you’re absolutely able to make the same money as a narrow body Captain. It’s also easier to work only 10 days a month and have 20days off as an FO. Another thing to consider- Airlines are still hiring but they have already hired a significant amount of pilots. That said I’m sure you will get a good job here, but don’t expect to be a Widebody Captain at a Legacy carrier. That ship has sailed. You can have an excellent QOL as a NB/WB FO or if you choose to upgrade early you will have to wait many years for your schedule to improve. All that said- I don’t regret coming over and wish you all the best!

[bafanguy]

To my understanding it is possible to apply to an F/O position in a legacy airline.
Last year I was in touch with an AA recruiter who told me that if I had an EB2 I could be interviewed.

Yes, you can certainly apply for any position you wish. The question is whether they're currently messing with visa holders (vs citizens or green card holders) at the time you apply. The hiring game is fickle and volatile: what was true last year (or last month) may or may not be true this (month) year. I'd want to see the acceptance of specific visa holders in writing on the airline's official website and they don't seem to be all that forthcoming with that info (a few regionals have in the past). What some recruiter told you is less than meaningless.

Spirit Airlines took visa holders in the past (in addition to E3) but I doubt they're hiring at the moment. Frontier Airlines is reportedly taking visa holders of some kind but I don't know what category...and I haven't seen that on Frontier's website.

My guess is that the places you'd want to roll the big dice on and make a family move for won't be particularly welcoming to visa holders. DL, UA, AA, UPS, etc just don't have to mess with this issue when there are hordes of citizens storming the gates. Plus, hiring at the legacy level is somewhat less recently than in the hot-and-heavy past.

And as soon as hiring slows even slightly, the competitive requirements go up. What's listed as minimum requirements is meaningless.

Someone else mentioned the time in the RHS. If this would bruise your sensitivities, you won't be happy. And once one gets that magic 1,000 hours, there's no absolute guarantee LHS positions will be available to the very junior pilots. It certainly has been for a few years but I wouldn't plan a life-altering move based on that being the case if it's a deal breaker for you.

I'm happy to see people achieve success in their efforts and admire their willingness to make big efforts and take big risks. But getting reliable, unequivocal information is tough at times.

Best of luck to you and your family. Let us know how you get along. It'll be informative to a lot of people.

[bafanguy]

To my understanding it is possible to apply to an F/O position in a legacy airline.

You didn't mention if you currently have an FAA ATPL (or any FAA tickets).

Just an additional thought to the process you face: applying to most carriers today means filling out some online application. If the airline requires an applicant to hold an FAA ATPL (or FAA CPL with ATPL written passed) the online process may reject the application as not meeting the requirements. This means the system filter on the receiving end prevented the HR staff from even seeing the application.

I think there might be an exception or two out there (maybe ATLAS or an occasional regional ?) but the application mechanism at the legacy carriers to which you refer may very well present an obstacle to an otherwise well qualified candidate such as yourself, with or without a visa.

Just a thought.

[Dudule54]

I do not currently hold an FAA ATP… 🧐

[Dudule54]

But I don’t think the FAA ATP is the problem, the EASA can be easily converted into an FAA…

[bafanguy]

But I don’t think the FAA ATP is the problem, the EASA can be easily converted into an FAA…


Understand. The question I have is whether the lack of an FAA license will interfere with the application process. In some cases it will. Some airlines have taken people in without them and completed the process during the new-hire training. But I doubt all the prime carriers will do that when they are besieged by qualified applicants who don't bring that layer of complication with which the airline may not be willing or prepared to deal.

Here's Delta for example (AA, UA, Frontier and UPS are the same or tighter):

https://www.airlineapps.com/jobs/details.aspx?emp=Delta-Air-Lines&job=First-Officer

It's certainly worth your time to give it all a try.

[Sunrig]

But I don’t think the FAA ATP is the problem, the EASA can be easily converted into an FAA…

That is absolutely true. It will take maybe 3-4 months to get everything done. The restricting factor will be getting the TSA clearance to start your ATP CTP course since you will be in a sim. Also remember, if you want your 320 Type on the FAA certificate you will need to do at least a shortened type rating course again. The FAA doesn’t recognize the EASA rating. Like Bafanguy said, if you have your FAA certificates added to your Visa application it might help building your case to getting approved.

[Dudule54]

I don’t think having an FAA ATP before applying makes any kind of difference as the USCIS agents have no knowledge about the difference between an EASA and a FAA license. They are not experts in aviation…

[bafanguy]

I don’t think having an FAA ATP before applying makes any kind of difference as the USCIS agents have no knowledge about the difference between an EASA and a FAA license. They are not experts in aviation…


I was referring to dealing with an airline application/HR process and the potential of having the automated process of application review filtering out those without an FAA ATPL when that is listed as a minimum qualification for employment. That would have nothing to do with USCIS or its processes.

I just didn't explain myself very well. Sorry

[Climb150]

All the major airlines United/AA/Delta require you have an FAA ATP at time of application. Even the US military people have to play by this rule.

Some of the regionals would let you apply with a foreign licence (like the ones taking E3s) but I don't know of any Regional airline doing that know.

The only non regional doing licence conversion was Spirit and Allegiant but they have stopped also.

[bafanguy]

All the major airlines United/AA/Delta require you have an FAA ATP at time of application. Even the US military people have to play by this rule.

Some of the regionals would let you apply with a foreign licence (like the ones taking E3s) but I don't know of any Regional airline doing that know.

The only non regional doing licence conversion was Spirit and Allegiant but they have stopped also.

Climb150,

Yes, that's what I was trying to say but you did it better.

Delta's published requirements are a bit of an exception to accommodate the military guys. Or at least that's what they publish. The ATP is issued by completing the training program:FAA Requirements

FAA Commercial Pilot Certificate with Instrument - Airplane.
Current FAA First Class Medical Certificate.
All aeronautical experience requirements for an ATP, Airplane category rating, as set forth in 14 CFR §61.159.
Current ATP written exam.

[Climb150]

Well you got rejected on your EB2 application so they might actually want it.


I know people who didn't have an FAA ATP and got the EB2 NIW.

I think the boat has sailed on EB2 NIW though. I have not heard of one being approved for a long time now. Plenty being rejected though.

I'm sure someone will let me know that their brothers girlfriends sisters auntie got approved last week!!:)

[EASA to FAA]

Hey guys,
I am a captain in a major European airline, always wanted to move to USA, I’ve tried several years the diversity lottery with no positive results and tried the EB2 on my own a few years ago… same results.
I now have the opportunity to try the EB2 again with the help of someone who made it successfully, and getting is experience may help in doing it right this time…
My question to you guys is, what are the odds to a 50 yo captain to make this opportunity a successful and/or a wise move ?
I am willing to take the chance but a lot of uncertainties make me think about it, how long before I can get a job, will this job be better than the one I presently have, how about salaries and QOL, will my family be granted to move with me (a wife and 3 kids)…
Feedbacks welcome 😉

50 years old is considered very old for any immigration, EB2 visa is usually for people in their 30's and 40's, the older you are the harder it's gonna be to integrate and the USCIS want people that are going to stay in the United States and not come back to Europe after a few years; there are some exceptions of older people getting it but it's rare.

Many people, including myself, were approved last year and this year. All of them completed an FAA ATP conversion before submitting their petition.
A vast majority of the one who chose not to convert their licenses received a Requests for Evidence (RFE) or were denied directly, most of the RFE i know of didn't end up with a successful outcome.

Immigration always involves expenses, not willing to convert your license, not thoroughly vetting your chosen lawyer, choosing to do it by yourself to save money with 0 law background is delusional and ridiculous. I do only know of 2 people who did it by themselves and got approved compare to around two hundred who used a serious law firm.

Also keep in mind that not having an FAA ATP is simply giving the immigration officer another reason to deny your petition that was already denied before.

[Winemaker]

re post #407: Once you upgrade to Captain you should be around $300K. But also be aware that the cost of living is much higher in the US than in Europe. That is especially true for having 3 kids.
I live in the U.S. $300k/year is in the upper 5% of income here. If you're making that sort of money you will not be worrying about the cost of living, you'll have a maid, a Mercedes, and a house on the beach. School is paid for here by the state, so there is no cost to educate your children. This poster doesn't know what they're talking about.

[Sunrig]

re post #407:
I live in the U.S. $300k/year is in the upper 5% of income here. If you're making that sort of money you will not be worrying about the cost of living, you'll have a maid, a Mercedes, and a house on the beach. School is paid for here by the state, so there is no cost to educate your children. This poster doesn't know what they're talking about.

You’re right. If you make $300K you shouldn’t be worrying. But coming here with 3 kids and no savings it’s hard on first year pay especially if you don’t have a credit history. That was what I wanted to make people aware of. And not all public schools are good in the US.