Qatari Incident

[Jennie Blond]

"A Qatari A320 Airbus had to abort departure from Abu Dhabi International Airport yesterday after the cockpit received a warning that a cargo door was not closed properly.

Sources confirmed that the aircraft returned to stand in AUH and the problem was investigated for several hours. Aircraft remained on ground and subsequent flights to Doha were cancelled. The airline flew in a replacement crew from Doha to ferry the aircraft back, since the original crews were now out of hours."

[mutt]

Jennie,

What’s your point? You appear to be doing a lot of QR bashing, why?

Who cares that the aircraft aborted takeoff due to a warning message, what would you have expected them to do? You have to remember that aircraft are mechanical and they DO BREAK DOWN.

Mutt.

[newswatcher]

A little harsh mutt. As a "one-off" probably a non-event, but added together over a period of time, a pattern may emerge. We shall see!

Try and tell the relatives of those who were on DC-10 (TC-JAV) -3/3/74, that a cargo door problem is of minor importance. That incident showed that these problems may be due to a number of causes including poor design, bad maintenance or human error.

It's good to see any news from the UAE, knowing their usual reticence to publish details of such things!

[A300Man]

Mutt,

Your comments are totally ridiculous. Jennie was just reporting an incident which may be of interest to participants of this forum.

She was not QR bashing. How the hell did you manage to interpret her comments as critical of Qatar Airways.

Please may I suggest that certain individuals here are just too f****ng eager to stamp on the keyboard as soon as they read a post from various members, whether or not the comments are controversial, silly or, in this case, a statement of facts.

Jennie - please keep the posts coming. This is why the forum is here.

Mutt - crawl back into your kennel and re-charge the brain cells before posting next time.

Regarding the incident and the original thread -------

I have heard some conflicting reports. Some concur with Jennie's comments. Others suggest that the aircraft was only taxiing out for take off and so there was no "aborted" take off as such.

Another report suggests that the aircraft was actually airborne and returned to AUH.

All in all, probably a fairly common incident and no danger to anyone. However, Newswatcher's comments should not be totally ignored.

[ETOPS MAN]

WOOO, Hold back the camel!!

Why are Mutts comments totally rediculous?
Look at JB's previous threads, looks like QR bashing to me!
You dont need to be a rocket scientist!

How can JB report such a incident without the real facts?

If you are going to make statements and use the word "incident" then get your facts straight.

[A300Man]

Mutt,

Sorry mate. Just wanted to apologise for my earlier comments above. I was a bit over the top. It was a spur of the moment reaction, which I am sure yours was too in response to Jennie.

Now, before 4-holer comes in and tells us all to grow up and stop wasting time, does anyone have any conclusive news to report on the incident (careful choice of word) that occurred.

Surprisingly, even my contacts at QR are baffled by this one, which suggests that the whole thing was a bit of a non event.

However, it would also be incorrect of me to cast apsersions on Jennie's thread. Clearly she though it merited mentioning as a point of interest.

Anyone have anything to add. Thanks for calming it down guys, you bring tears to my eyes. http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/up.gif 4HP

[MTQatar]

Which A320-232 is it?

[A300Man]

Initially I was told A7-ABU, but then A7-ADB.......so I don't know which. Probably neither MTQ!!

[MTQatar]

I was on A7-ADB a couple of weeks ago but not A7-ABU for 1 1/2 years. Anyway did the aircraft actually take off or was it on the taxiway and then return, and also was there really a problem with the cargo door or is it just a malfunctioning warning light.

Wow QR must be really unsafe ;) , pilots miscalculating fuel loads, F/A's not trained on the aircraft and now malfunctioning cargo doors :eek:

[mutt]

With respect to 4HP ( Way to go bro! http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/rantoff.gif ) I’m not going to say anything more about JB, you can draw your own conclusions from her previous posts.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62878

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63719

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62670


Newswatcher, your comparison with the DC10 is quite interesting, however it’s my understanding that with the 10, the aft cargo doors actually indicated that they were closed. That accident thought aircraft designers learned a valuable but costly lesson on floor design and the installation of flight control/hydraulic systems.

However that it quite different from a case where a crew get a warning light and return to the gate! I really can’t see how you can blame the airline or the crew for taking such an action? If anything, such an action proves that it is a conscientious airline.

Mutt.

[mafibacon]

MTQatar

FYI the following is briefly, what happened.

The aircraft was A7-ADC Sector AUH - DOH 21/08/2002

On start up an ECAM message showing the FWD Cargo door to be open was activated.

Ground staff reset(?) the door and the warning cleared. Aircraft departed.

Passing 1000' the ECAM message re-appeared.

Commander elected to return to AUH for safety reasons and maintenance action.

Problem was found to be an out of tolerance door warning system device which can be damaged during baggage loading operations.





;)

[A300Man]

Thank you Mafibacon. Very eloquently and briefly put without the usual hysteria which certain members (myself included) tend to adopt.

Regarding the commanders decision in this instance, I agree entirely with his actions. It would have been silly to continue with the flight, albeit a short sector.



Mutt - I take your point. No questions should be asked when a Captain elects to take action for safety reasons. We could debate the correctness of the issue from here to eternity. However, the Captain is the one who is in the hotseat at the time and has to make her / his decision.

Pity - ADC is the newest and shiniest aeroplane in the A320 fleet - and some baggage handler has taken a mallet to the doors???? Haha.

MT,

I have been on the entire A320 fleet in the last four weeks. The new machines are looking well - obviously - but as noted previously, some of the others (particularly Romeo and Uniform) are a bitt shabby looking at the back (seat coverings I mean).

Otherwise, the interiors are spotless and so they should be with such a large army of cleaners.

I have clocked up the most hours and number of flights on Tango, November and Alpha respectively from the 3 fleets.

When is Oscar coming back on line? Hope they fix all the little nuances that he has......such as perpetual faulty warning lights.

[MTQatar]

Thanks mafibacon for the explanation.

If repairs were taken on the aircraft has there been any flight delays and cancellations besides the AUH flight. QR have high utilisation rates on the aircraft and so the aircraft have a tight schedule. If something wrong happens it could wreck havoc on the schedules.

WRT the hysteria, I can imagine that tonight's new thread will be something along the lines of "2 No Shows on todays QR003 to MUC: QR turning away passengers" or "QR028 to FRA experiences turbulence: QR not safe".

A300Man,

I have always found QR's fleet very clean and in good condition especially when compared to GF's A320 and B767. But I noticed the A7-ABV has and overhead panel in F that keeps popping out, exposing the wires.

When is Oscar coming back on line? Hope they fix all the little nuances that he has......such as perpetual faulty warning lights.

I honestly don't have a clue, I don't even know where the heavy checks were done.

[A300Man]

Don't know MT. Used to be GAMCO for certain things and even Ansett Leasing for others.

I believe that nowadays most of the work on the newer aeroplanes is carried out by LT or SALE, depending on the aircraft.

But really do not have a clue where Oscar is at present.......Mafibacon might be able to shed some light on the subject.

[newswatcher]

Hi Mutt, not sure if your question was directed at me, but it was certainly not my intention to blame the QR crew. Good work!

On the Paris incident, there were a number of contributory factors:
- the loader did not engage the latch properly, but thought he had, although he did not use the view port to check that the pins were in place
- incorrect maintenance had previously been done(Service Bulletin 52-37)
- the cockpit warning light went out well before the pins were in place
- due to poor design, critical controls were destroyed by floor collapse
- due to poor design the pressure vents between the passenger cabin and the cargo compartment were totally inadequate.

[mafibacon]

MTQatar

I hope this will help with your queries.

Whenever a lengthly delay occurs there will always be a knock on delay effect. These will be reduced as much as possible by switching aircraft. As a general observation, because QTR aircraft are so heavly utilised, there are bound to be additional delays or even cancellations when turn back incidents occur. Every responsible airline will strive to minimise this type of delay.

If an overhead bin falls down during flight, it should be reported to the FA. If you can see wiring, then the protection has probably been knocked out of place by an excessively large piece of hand baggage having being put in the bin. Once again this should be reported to the FA so the maintenance staff can rectify the problem.

FYI - A7-ABO has been "back on line" after major maintenance since May. It underwent a "C" check in GAMCO - AUH.



A300 Man

Ansett do not do any maintenance themselves. They are a Leasing Management company. If one of their aircraft requires a maintenance check either before or after a lease, then the normal process is that they would farm the check out to a suitably qualified maintenance provider/agency. SALE are the same. However both companies employ maintenance staff to oversee the check being carried out. Whilst an aircraft is on lease, then the lesee is responsible for ensuring that the scheduled maintenance is carried out at the prescribed periods. The lessors will examine the records of their aircraft to ensure that that the correct maintenance is carried out .

By LT I assume you are referring to Lufthansa Technik. They have been looking after the A340 since it came on line back in 1992(?).

Hope this answers your queries. If you need further info please send me a private E-mail
:rolleyes:

[MTQatar]

Mafibacon,

Thank you for your posts they sure do explain a lot. ABV only had the ceiling and not the actual over-head bins and it only came of a little bit, about 15 cms. I talked to the F/A who said she would report it to maintanence.

BTW do u work for QR?

[A300Man]

A7-ABN has a similar phenomenon above the R3 emergency door in the Y section of the aircraft, where the A/C slatted panel continually falls out of place.

And this aircraft also has a lose latch on the basinette table near seat 1D/G. Several times I have spilt my G&T when it pops out of position.

Another query that someone may be able to answer - A7-ABW aircraft....the L3 emergency door squeals and hisses from the minute the aircraft leaves the ground until it level off at FL.

This sounds like a faulty seal and its never heard on other aircraft. Could this be a dangerous thing that needs looking at?

I had no idea that ABO was back on line. Like you MTQ, I haven't seen it around for ages.

Live and learn

[4HolerPoler]

Just to remind you folks - these two guys don't work for Qatar - they're just incredibly enlightened professionals.

[mafibacon]

MTQatar
I cannot open you message through PPrune.
Please resend through [email protected]

[A300Man]

Howdy 4hp,

Did I detect a touch of sarcasm in your previous posting.........? Those on the forum (fora) who know me will confirm that I DO NOT work for Qatar Airways. I DO work in the industry from time to time and fly very regularly on QR (hence my previous comments).

So, what's wrong with having a healthy interest?

[4HolerPoler]

No sarcasm intended 300man - I just find it fantastic that you & MT have such incredibly up-to-date information regarding Qatar Airways, down to which panel squeaks on which aircraft, yet steadfastly whack any notion on the head that you work for same.

I applaud your enthusiasm.

4Holer

[MTQatar]

4HolerPoler,

I don't work for Qatar Airways as I said earlier. I just have a lot of interest in the rapid development my country is experiencing, also I have always had an interest in Aviation. Qatar Airways falls into both categories and so I am interested in knowing how things are going with the airline.

Up to 2001 all I knew about QR came from newspapers but after that I started to read publications and journals on economics and aviation and eventually developed contacts with some QR employees.

MT have such incredibly up-to-date information regarding Qatar Airways

Well if you check up on my previous posts you will notice that I don't really have that much info about QR, nothing incredible.

down to which panel squeaks on which aircraft

I don't travel a lot but when I do, I travel on QR and QR have a small fleet so it is easy to keep track of certain characteristics related to certain aircraft. A300Man travels much much more than me and so he probably has multiple flights on each of QR's aircraft and so he is also likely to notice the same things I do.

[Palma de Mallorca]

MT Qatar,

I see that you have changed your autosignature. Getting fed up of people asking, were you?

I am not surprised.

Anyway, if its any consolation, I have just developed an interest in Qatar Airways too, for an assignment that I am working on. I have to say that I find your posts to always be of high calibre and very informative.

As for the other "expert", his information is good too and checks out very accurately. (We journo's DO dig to the bottom to check the validity of statements made, you know). However, if this guy does go in the direction he is believed to, he's taking a lot of valuable information with him.

Pity. Just when I needed it most.

[A300Man]

MT Qatar, Mafibacon and 4HP,

Just flew back DXB-DOH on QR's A7-ADA.........there is a little piece of thread that is hanging down from the central red cover of the lifejacket pouch between seats 2A and 2C. This thread has been hanging for some time............only joking.......only joking......

Regarding my observations on QRs aircraft, the reason is entirely as explained by MTQ above.

Anyway, down to the real business. I note Mafibacons comments regarding the high utilisation of aircraft and the affect that a minor incident has on the operation of the schedule.

But, surely there must be a need to re-think the sensibilities of this. Logically, as the route network expands and aircraft are to be found further and further away from base at any given moment in time, the need for back-up arises should something go wrong.

Does QR have such a built in contingency just now or plans to introduce one?

Every single day of the week, a QR A300 or A320 sits idle on the ramp of Dubai International Airport between 14:00hrs and 19:00hrs. This occurs solely at the convenience of the schedules, whereby it does not make operational sense to operate additional flights in between. But 5 hours on ground ex-base is a hell of a waste of resource when it is being suggested that there is very little flexibility in the schedule. Whats the point of having the ac on ground in DXB? I suppose it is close enough to Doha though should it require ferrying back at short notice.

[MTQatar]

A300Man,

With regards to back up aircraft QR have to small a number of flights that would warrant having an aircraft remain as a back up or to lure in an ACMI company to base aircraft at DOH. The reason why you see aircraft remain for long hours on certain routes is either for slot availability (in case of EURO airports) but the most likely reason is flight connections since 62% of QR's passengers are only connecting and not O&D. Anyways the schedules to DXB have been modified and now the aircraft would spend much less time in DXB than earlier.

[GULFPILOT76]

4HolerPoler,

You'd be amazed how much knowledge 'airplane spotters' have
about our daily job. Put them on a flight deck and 'of you go'.
Although I couldn't garantee WHERE you would go.

[4HolerPoler]

GULFPILOT76

Great news - please continue to monitor my "amazement" on the indicator below.


http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/tossometer.gif

[Riscy]

very intersting..... talks about QTR

A300MAN and MTQatar

Gents, pls close this.

regards

Riscy

[Jennie Blond]

Furthermore, buy yourself a DICTIONARY (DICTIONERY - US) and at least learn to spell your criticisms correctly.

I believe you meant to say "off you go" and "guarantee".

4HP - The mood I'm in, don't even bother to raise the red pen!!!!

Sorry. It's been a very long, long, long day........

[Riscy]

Jennie Blond

very funny, just think about the name "Riscy", Yes I am in QTR. I would love do debate the matter with you.
There is only one single line between me and God "Akbar", so mind what you say cause I have already traced the server where your message came from.

[A300Man]

Riscy,

May I point out a few things to you:-


a) Jennie Blond has already confirmed that she DOES NOT work with QR. So your statement that you are "only one line away from God Akbar" and that you have "traced the server from where the message was sent" are totally ludicrous.

Please don't embarrass yourself any further on these issues.


b) Your name is "Riscy". So what?

c) You have traced Jennie's server? I challenge you to publish the name of the server (name of server only, not user) here on this forum right now. I am online waiting for your reply.

d) If the above is the case, you will also be able to trace the server from where I am posting THIS message, since we are all in the same location. What action do you now intend to take?

e) You are only "one" line away from the QR CEO. Me too!!! Where exactly are you located / positioned / and what do you do that renders you so close to AAB?


IN CONCLUSION, PLEASE DO NOT APPROACH THIS LOCAL FORUM AND THREATEN THE MEMBERS WHO ARE SIMPLY POSTING INFORMATION WHICH THEY CONSIDER APPROPRIATE TO DO SO.
Do you get the message??? If you wish, you can chat to me on the ninth floor on Sunday morning at 09:00hrs, whereupon I shall be attending a meeting. (Maybe the same one as you!!!!!!)

[Riscy]

my friend,

be there on the 9th floor, then ask about Riscy. Go the RH of the corridor. You will be amzed. I do not give a **** about you or any other, seems your problem.
Ask for Liza

[Gnadenburg]

Riscy

A poor attempt at bullying.

What an amatuer you are.What an embarrassment to your company and country.

I suppose it`s no wonder all of the above(especially you) aren`t taken too seriously on the world stage.

[A300Man]

Gnadenburg,

Thank-you for your "kind" comments about me and my fellow QR enthusiasts. That you choose not to take us seriously is entirely up to you.

Riscy,

I note your comments and your request to meet. However, unless you are the person who has been named in your previous post, I think you have gone just too far in placing names of individuals onto a public forum. It is now not entirely impossible for the public viewers here to make contact with the lady in question.

Your bullying tactics as displayed above actually remind me rather worryingly of only one person who resides on the 9th floor. I don't suppose you are HIM, are you?

Gulfpilot76,

I don't get your point.

[4HolerPoler]

This thread has served it's useful purpose and the interactions that it has degenerated to would be better served to be continued via email.

Topic closed.

[Palma de Mallorca]

I find all of the above very interesting. There certainly is a lot of passion amongst you guys in the Middle East.

A300Man - I have tried to send you a private message, but cannot. Assume you are already in Bahrain. Could you please make contact with me by e-mail? Refer my profile.

MTQatar - I have received and replied to your private message. Many thanks for taking an interest.

Hope you all calm down soon ladies and gentlemen.


A question - Is Qatar Airways planning to wet-lease in equipment from Aer Lingus? I saw this on a thread elsewhere on the Forum and have also heard rumours of the same back here in Euroland. Confirmation from someone would be appreciated.