Going from EK widebody Capt to LCC in Europe. Opinions?

[NineInchSnail]

Hi Folks,

About to make the move from widebody LHS to an orange LCC back in Europe.
Except the paycut it looks like my life will be better if I go this way.

But I still have some fear regarding the dreaded 4/5 sectors per day versus the 1 sector followed by a 24hrs break at the hotel before coming back.

On the plus side, no more night flying and a bit more time off at home. Union protection, social security.....etc

So I would like to have some feedback from the guys who made the move already and let me know how they feel now? Is the lifestyle that much better? Any regrets?

Thanks a lot

[Flyboy_SG]

I’m in a similar situation and same fear...Let’s wait for the feedback.

[1a sound asleep]

You end up driving a Nissan rather than a BMW
You search a little smarter when buying things because maybe you have less money
You actually enjoy more challenging flying. After all thats what you enjoy
You feel happier
Your soul feels like it is being nourished
You feel more real
You appreciate that home time
LIfestyle is not about glitz and gold
You learn to respect a more honest life

[dubaigong]

I would agree with what 1a sound asleep says...
I have been in both position ( Europe low cost and Middle East carrier ) and without a doubt I will say that my life was a lot bettter outside of the Middle East but yes , you will have to accept to downgrade a little bit your lifestyle.
No more Mc Laren , Ferrari and the like but feeling a lot better , having real friends , time with the family , stable roster , less flight through the night , less shift between day and night flights etc...

[springbok449]

If you join the Orange LCC in LGW, one thing you won’t have is a stable roster, EK roster is far more stable especially during the summer months..
.
There’s a lot to be said about being in your own bed every night but the 5 consecutive earlies are a killer.

Driving into work, getting the bus from the car park, operating 4 sectors often with delays due unrealistic block times and turnaround times, slots often results in operating close to or into discretion then driving home and doing it all again the next day and the day after etc, can be really tiring, living more than 20 mins from the airport would only add to your woes.

Having said all of that you will find that your quality of life on your days off will improve dramatically, if you have family and especially kids they will thrive in a “freeer” environment. Your kids will be able to do after school activities without having to take a mortgage to pay for them.

There will most definitely be less night flying and no jet-lag, you will fly mainly with like minded individuals and you won’t live in fear of losing your job every time you go to work like some do.

1a sound asleep sums it up well too but you need to consider the above.

My last point would be, leave EK and return home? Absolutely! You will wish you had done it earlier! But you really need to consider some of the above before putting pen to paper with some airlines. Some love the LCC lifestyle, some hate it, it really is up to the individual.

The only thing I miss from DXB are my mates that are still there!

Good luck!

[Craggenmore]

Which Orange base?

This is critical.

[Noleave]

I have done the move this last year.

Leaving EK has been good on my health. Truth be told I liked the job at EK but was tired of years of no leave and the punishing rosters.

The first thing I noticed is the quality of sleep I finally got. I have been working 5/4 rosters with 4 sectors per days at times and have gotten used to it. The 4 days off really do allow you to recover.

Your salary is still reasonable, but yes one has to be a little careful with the budget. All that said we are still managing to save.

Hope that helps.

[stakeknife]

Having done both tho at a regional base at the Orange crowd for 13 yrs + there are lots of trade offs. Everyone will have different priorities and each to their own. The crews at Ezy are great and the flying is fun. For me I much prefer our family life in dubai and believe it or not I prefer the fatbus roster than my old fixed pattern. Its a very personal choice and I wish u every success & happiness, if I had to return Ezy would be one of my top choices as long as I could get part time fairly quickly. Njoy and good luck!

[springbok449]

Just to add to my earlier post, as mentioned above which Orange base is crucial, regional bases and some European bases are fine but LGW and others are best avoided. Part-time would be the only way I would consider it.
Good luck

[Flyboy_SG]

you will fly mainly with like minded individuals and you won’t live in fear of losing your job every time you go to work like some do.



Love this part :D

[dubaigong]

I like the " just learn to live on 5700£ to 6000£ a month "
Get back down to earth , there is a majority of people living with a lot less than that without any problem...
I have been used to live with 2500 Euros per month and having a nice life , just avoid spending on stupid expensive stuff that you don't really need except to show off

[The African Dude]

I like the " just learn to live on 5700£ to 6000£ a month "
Get back down to earth , there is a majority of people living with a lot less than that without any problem...
I have been used to live with 2500 Euros per month and having a nice life , just avoid spending on stupid expensive stuff that you don't really need except to show off

Couldn’t agree more...

That said, when you are used to having a higher disposable income, it DOES require some “getting used to” and readjustment in instinctive spending habits. The poster is correct in pointing this out as some people just don’t like having to actually budget.

[Jack D]

Sorry but if you were a cockpit crew member and being paid €2500 per month you were being ripped off and contributing to the continuing erosion of industry conditions. Not your fault of course

[dubaigong]

Jack D

Don't talk about what you don't know...

I was at that time a first officer for a national air carrier in Europe and this was my salary after tax ( you know what you are so used not to pay here )
I also was benefiting of a good social security system , a good pension scheme and two group insurances paid by the company.
I have been of medical for around 5 month and my full salary was paid while recovering at home.

For your info I am not and have never contributed to the erosion of the industry as I have never paid for any of my training ( not even my basic training as I passed a selection program and all my training has been free from 0 to 220 hours and a Professional multi-engine IFR licence in my Pocket )

After that I had been Lucky enough to be trained for free on 3 different type rating ( Boeing , McDonnell Douglas and finally Airbus.

I was also scheduled for all my ground trainings , simulator sessions etc... and paid during this time while here YOU accept to learn on your off time at home on your computer most of your reccurent course and exams , so please keep your judgement for yourself until you have the correct information.

Have a great day mister Jack D

[Jack D]

Believe me I know ... I’ve been in the business of flying for 40+ years and that salary is a disgrace . The other extras you describe are industry norms in many cases . As I said if you regard this as an adequate salary I was paid more in 1978( in Europe) that is comparing like for like in currency terms . I don’t mean to cause offence or denigrate your achievements but you are still being inadequately compensated ... are you in the so called former eastern block by any chance ?

[mmmbop]

Jack D

For your info I am not and have never contributed to the erosion of the industry ...........

You work for FZ/EK. So yes, yes you have.

[Angel`s Playmate]

Jack D is correct

I have been in the biz for 38 yrs as well and see my mates operating A320's for some LCC in the western part of Europe, for less net income than I had some 30 yrs ago as F/O ( in a good month ) on a heavy jet :=

[SOPS]

I have to agree with Jack as well. I just did the sums. In 1976 I was getting paid more as a narrow body FO. And that amount of money had a lot more buying power in 1976! And looking at my log book, I flew around 500 hours a year. Things have certainly gone south.

[bringbackthe80s]

Guys I would not concentrate on the salary, in bases outside the UK the salary won' t change much compared to EK (excluding free housing/bills/schools which is no little matter of course).

I' d be focusing more on the lifestyle change, going from a long haul operation to a 4 sectors any weather any type of approach operation. I guess everyone fancies a change every once in a while anyway, so could be interesting for some.

I suspect many of you have an idea of Europe which no longer is, and can't wait to go back..given the state of things I would think twice, even 3 times. But this is my opininon and is probably for another thread (or forum).

All in all many people before you made the change, if this is what you want for you and your kids I' m sure you' ll be fine. Good luck

[NineInchSnail]

Thanks guys for the input, for sure I won't really know until I experience it. The one thing I am sure is that it is hard to keep doing this job in EK so I need a change.....Cheers

[dirk85]

The good contracts in easyJet are on the continent, not in the UK, in terms of net pay.

[SOPS]

Thanks guys for the input, for sure I won't really know until I experience it. The one thing I am sure is that it is hard to keep doing this job in EK so I need a change.....Cheers

Check your PM

[box]

Go to Germany, France or Italy and the pay is quite decent. Consider Italy, if you have kids. Very good parental part time rules

[The Outlaw]

Thanks guys for the input, for sure I won't really know until I experience it. The one thing I am sure is that it is hard to keep doing this job in EK so I need a change.....Cheers

Same same...and Amen!

[dirk85]

Well, the UK net pay is good if you're already type rated, but very poor if not.

Compared to the eurocontracts it’s bad with or without rating.

[PPPPPP]

Some things to consider.....
Picked up and dropped off vs driving round a car park looking for a spot(summer or winter)and waiting for a bus/walking to the crew room

Being handed a menu and asked what you want to eat vs being given a brown bag with a mars bar and sandwich in it/running to boots for the meal deal.

Ironing shirts vs being given a freshly laundered shirt

First class suit on staff travel vs an economy seat

Working 5 days on the trot vs 1 out, 1 back with a day off in between

The choice of whatever is in the first class galley vs a tea or coffee(Nescafé’s brown dirt with sort of warm water)

All I’m saying is low cost short haul is a different beast to EK life. If you haven’t experienced it before it will be a shock. If you’ve done it before then you know what you’re getting.

[Nedul]

Some things to consider.....
Picked up and dropped off vs driving round a car park looking for a spot(summer or winter)and waiting for a bus/walking to the crew room

Being handed a menu and asked what you want to eat vs being given a brown bag with a mars bar and sandwich in it/running to boots for the meal deal.

Ironing shirts vs being given a freshly laundered shirt

First class suit on staff travel vs an economy seat

Working 5 days on the trot vs 1 out, 1 back with a day off in between

The choice of whatever is in the first class galley vs a tea or coffee(Nescafé’s brown dirt with sort of warm water)

All I’m saying is low cost short haul is a different beast to EK life. If you haven’t experienced it before it will be a shock. If you’ve done it before then you know what you’re getting.
1. Picked up and dropped off vs driving round a car park looking for a spot(summer or winter)and waiting for a bus/walking to the crew room - I rather drive myself than have to babysit an under qualified stink ball while he tries to kill me.
2. Being handed a menu and asked what you want to eat vs being given a brown bag with a mars bar and sandwich in it/running to boots for the meal deal. - The quality of food, even in F is poor and indigestion inducing to say the least. The reality of which is actually trying to pry any leftovers out of less than helpful Crew. Give me the meal deal any day.
3. Ironing shirts vs being given a freshly laundered shirt - I'd rather take the 3 minutes it takes to iron one myself in front of Richard and Judy than stand in a queue at 8 am for 5 minutes when I've been up all night, all for the privilege of wearing a polyester Chinese special.
4. First class suit on staff travel vs an economy seat - Travel is highly over rated on ones days off.
5. Working 5 days on the trot vs 1 out, 1 back with a day off in between - Reality of which is 2 night flights and an attempted sleep in a hotel on the back of a clock, against 5 local nights in your own bed with a squidgy warm wife.
6. The choice of whatever is in the first class galley vs a tea or coffee(Nescafé’s brown dirt with sort of warm water) - Have you tried that Sri Lankan stuff they serve on board? I'd still rather make my own lukewarm beverage choices.

It appears all the above is still blinding people to the reality of a very carefully polished T**d.
Oh the green green grass of home.......

[thegypsy]

Nedul

Has a good point re Gatwick staff carparks.

When I was based at LGW I was in Carpark H which was next to Hilton and a few minutes walk to company office.

Always felt sorry for those parked miles away that needed a bus to/from in middle of night.

Plus driving to LGW can be a nightmare now depending on time of day.

[harry the cod]

Nedul

Serious question for perspective. Do you commute? I assume you do based on how you answered question four.

Harry

[Nedul]

Nedul

Serious question for perspective. Do you commute? I assume you do based on how you answered question four.

Harry
Not possible at EK.......Not if you want more than 4 days off a month......

[PPPPPP]

I know I shouldn’t take the bait, but why not.

That felt like a fairly aggressive response.

I choose to see the positives in life. I like the car service they provide. I like having my laundry done for me. I like the food onboard. I always find the cabin crew to really nice and generous with food and drink. The staff travel perks are good and I’ve never had a problem with availability.

If you look at the world in the hope of finding negatives you will only find negatives. A driver who is trying to kill you vs the reality of accident statistics. ‘Less than helpful’ crew against the friendliness I come across. Spending 3 mins per shirt ironing them yourself against the (usually less than) 5 mins to pick up 4 shirts and a pair of trousers(you do the math).
Working 5 consecutive days of 6am to 2pm or a trip to cape town to eat a steak and drink a glass of wine(not all flights are night turn arounds).

If you look for the bad, you will find bad. If you place your expectations at a place where they will never be met you will always be disappointed.

For me I’m picked up by a friendly chap in a new bmw. I drop my laundry off 20yards from check in. I’ll fly over to somewhere nice for a day. On the way the cabin crew will make me a nice salad, and some minty green tea. On the way home I’ll pick up the laundry and be driven home.

Life is nice. It’s all about how you choose to see it.

[fantom]

If you are going from wide-body, you simply have to lose weight.

[mmmbop]

I know I shouldn’t take the bait, but why not.

That felt like a fairly aggressive response.

I choose to see the positives in life. I like the car service they provide. I like having my laundry done for me. I like the food onboard. I always find the cabin crew to really nice and generous with food and drink. The staff travel perks are good and I’ve never had a problem with availability.

If you look at the world in the hope of finding negatives you will only find negatives. A driver who is trying to kill you vs the reality of accident statistics. ‘Less than helpful’ crew against the friendliness I come across. Spending 3 mins per shirt ironing them yourself against the (usually less than) 5 mins to pick up 4 shirts and a pair of trousers(you do the math).
Working 5 consecutive days of 6am to 2pm or a trip to cape town to eat a steak and drink a glass of wine(not all flights are night turn arounds).

If you look for the bad, you will find bad. If you place your expectations at a place where they will never be met you will always be disappointed.

For me I’m picked up by a friendly chap in a new bmw. I drop my laundry off 20yards from check in. I’ll fly over to somewhere nice for a day. On the way the cabin crew will make me a nice salad, and some minty green tea. On the way home I’ll pick up the laundry and be driven home.

Life is nice. It’s all about how you choose to see it.

And the Costa Coffee tastes really nice in the Atrium between 0800 and 1500 doesn't it PPPPP?

My rosters are always great, get what I ask for.

Keep the comments coming - you provide great amusement. I always loved 'The Muppets.' Glad to see they're still around.

[Xulu]

Nedul

Being picked up and dropped off door to door in a new BMW is an incredible benefit that no other airline offers afaik.

For you to describe this as "having to babysit an under qualified stink ball who's trying to kill you" is disgusting on so many levels, let alone completely inaccurate. Almost exclusively friendly, professional and clean....

Laundry is also another incredible benefit that makes working life easier. You seem to think that washing and ironing your entire uniform at home is quicker than spending 2 minutes in a line for Laundry. How can you ever be happy in the face of such logic?

Without fail, the guys with this attitude are horrific pilots, and ironically have to be babysat in the flight deck or the sim by the unfortunate soul that has to listen to their bs ranting. The same ones who shout at the crew over their cappuccino not being made to their taste, and then complain that no one came to visit them in the flight deck.

You are making everyone's life around you miserable. Please leave.

Edit: I would love to see these types work a summer at EZY. Getting up at 3am is hard, but 5 days in a row is soul destroying (and for your squidgy wife) - only to then have to iron your shirt, deice the car, drive around their car park, catch a bus, buy your boots sandwich, print your flight plans, eat their horrendous crew meals, drink their instant coffee, and yes get on your hands and knees to clean up the cabin in between each of your four daily sectors. It will be a humbling experience. Whilst your yearly hours might be ~750-800, your duty hours are >1200.

At EK you are put on a pedestal at work. This leads to current princess attitudes. I assure you, the EZY cabin crew will eat you alive.

Other reality checks: NHS vs EK clinic, sitting in economy between Sharon and Tracy for your November leave to Malaga, standing at the front of the cabin to make a PA, numerous >hour long slots, warming up a freezing aircraft, 25 min turns - rushing and stressing to keep to schedule throughout the day, only to wait 4 hours for an engineer to drive to the outstation to sign a tech log entry, and then 20 mins for stairs to get attached after landing etc etc.

Whilst EK has its problems, and we're all working too hard at the moment, I'm not so delusional to give it up for a Euro LCC. I can only imagine that you have never experienced it before, and have developed a romantic notion of 'manual flying, living in Europe, and sleeping in your own bed every night'.

[Nedul]

Nedul

Being picked up and dropped off door to door in a new BMW is an incredible benefit that no other airline offers afaik.

For you to describe this as "having to babysit an under qualified stink ball who's trying to kill you" is disgusting on so many levels, let alone completely inaccurate. Almost exclusively friendly, professional and clean....

Laundry is also another incredible benefit that makes working life easier. You seem to think that washing and ironing your entire uniform at home is quicker than spending 2 minutes in a line for Laundry. How can you ever be happy in the face of such logic?

Without fail, the guys with this attitude are horrific pilots, and ironically have to be babysat in the flight deck or the sim by the unfortunate soul that has to listen to their bs ranting. The same ones who shout at the crew over their cappuccino not being made to their taste, and then complain that no one came to visit them in the flight deck.

You are making everyone's life around you miserable. Please leave.

Edit: I would love to see these types work a summer at EZY. Getting up at 3am is hard, but 5 days in a row is soul destroying (and for your squidgy wife) - only to then have to iron your shirt, deice the car, drive around their car park, catch a bus, buy your boots sandwich, print your flight plans, eat their horrendous crew meals, drink their instant coffee, and yes get on your hands and knees to clean up the cabin in between each of your four daily sectors. It will be a humbling experience. Whilst your yearly hours might be ~750-800, your duty hours are >1200.

At EK you are put on a pedestal at work. This leads to current princess attitudes. I assure you, the EZY cabin crew will eat you alive.

Other reality checks: NHS vs EK clinic, sitting in economy between Sharon and Tracy for your November leave to Malaga, standing at the front of the cabin to make a PA, numerous >hour long slots, warming up a freezing aircraft, 25 min turns - rushing and stressing to keep to schedule throughout the day, only to wait 4 hours for an engineer to drive to the outstation to sign a tech log entry, and then 20 mins for stairs to get attached after landing etc etc.

Whilst EK has its problems, and we're all working too hard at the moment, I'm not so delusional to give it up for a Euro LCC. I can only imagine that you have never experienced it before, and have developed a romantic notion of 'manual flying, living in Europe, and sleeping in your own bed every night'.

I retract the derogatory remark about the drivers (knew I would have to when I wrote it). I still stand by the fact I would rather drive myself both from a freedom of movement and safety aspect.
The thread is EU Lcc v ME and I felt the arguments from PPPPP were weak from my point of view.....it is after all ‘horses for courses’. So I responded.
There was no need to get personal, I did not! Although you felt my counter arguments were course to invent some kind of ‘ranting unprofessional stereotypical life hating Captain’
who takes his problems to work. I do not, just because the onboard tea tastes bad, doesn’t mean I upset my colleagues by telling them so....or the driver that is falling asleep on the SMBZR....I politely keep him, and myself, awake so we can get home in 1 piece.
I could go on.....
By the way, I have 12yrs experience working for an EU lcc and don’t drink coffee........
Next time I won’t counter anyone else’s opinion and just let things slide.

[Voeltjie]

xulu and ppppp

How long have you 2 been at EK? I ask, because from the few posts I've read on EK it seems that most of the negativity comes from those that have been there for longer than 5 years. The positive posts are few and far between but seems to be more from guys n gals in their first few years there, I could be wrong, hence my post.

I'm really not intending to stir anything, I have some serious decisions to make and would love to put your take on the company into perspective.

[PPPPPP]

Been here a while, and still enjoying it.

While I’ll be shouted down for this, the view you get from PPRuNe is a distilled and somewhat extreme view. The majority of people I fly with are happy.

If you’re thinking of joining EK then come to Dubai on holiday. If you like Dubai, then you’ll like working here.

For what it’s worth for this thread.
Last job would be 9 days off and 21 working.
April is 14 days not working. 3 daytime turnarounds, 4 layovers. About 84hrs, 30 of which are taken up with the ULR. Easy.

[dubaigong]

PPPPPP,

What you say is just not true...

Most of the pilot at EK don't get so many days off and they don't even get the 42 days of annual leave that their are entitle to so !!!!

How much are you paid to fool the potential pilot to join EK ?

[PPPPPP]

Dubaigong, what I said in my last post was accurate.

I get paid the same as everyone else.

As for leave, I think I’ve still got 11 days outstanding for next year that I’ve not used yet. Used all the days from last year. There is a point that I’ll happily concede. We don’t have kids so all leave for us is “can I have a week in XXXXX month at some point? Don’t really care when”. If you’ve got kids and want time off to match school holidays it’s a lot harder.

[Voeltjie]

Thanks for sticking your neck out PPPPP.

There is no perfect company out there, something about not being able to please all the people all of the time. I'm sure EK can be a challenging working environment at times, I'm not blinded to that. Whether it's to a point that I won't enjoy it is obviously very subjective.

Your post along with the rest does help me in making a final decision, I'll just have to take some time to weigh up the pros and cons.

[box]

Thanks for sticking your neck out PPPPP.

There is no perfect company out there, something about not being able to please all the people all of the time. I'm sure EK can be a challenging working environment at times, I'm not blinded to that. Whether it's to a point that I won't enjoy it is obviously very subjective.

Your post along with the rest does help me in making a final decision, I'll just have to take some time to weigh up the pros and cons.


Ppppp, Xulu and Voeltje, why don't you get a room🙄

[PPPPPP]

Thanks for the suggestion box. I’ll have to check the Emirates platinum card to see if there are any discounts going.
My wife and I went to the Dubai art show at the Souk madinat last night, which was very good if anyone’s not been yet. After that we went to one of the restaurants and had some food and drinks. All with a 50% discount(details on the last weekly email).

Don’t know of any loco companies with a discount scheme like that.

[dubaigong]

If you can get 50% off , it clearly means that the prices are way to high and that everybody not having access to the same discount as you are ripped off.
It show how this place is , most of the prices are higher than in any other place dispite the fact that there is not tax !!!
Great for you that you can benefit from discount but what about all the others that are not ?
Of course as long as it is good for you , everything is fine.
That's also what is Paramount in this place , no compassion for what happen to others,
Selfishness , greedyness , etc... what a nice environment to live in.
I just hope nothing bad will happen to you or your family in the future because what is great here is that nobody will care and be there to help you.

[PPPPPP]

Dubaigong, thanks for your reply. Dubai can be an expensive city. A quick google search put it at 20th on one list and 19th on another.
Dubai has some great dining options in all price brackets and as such there is plenty of competition for both residents and tourists to use them. Using offers to help attract custom is a very normal practice in many cities, and Dubai seems to be no exception.

It is great that I have the EPC as one option for discounts, and restaurants do use it with a wide range of discount from 10% upwards. Had we not used that one we could have used the entertainer discount scheme(buy one meal, get another free) that we get free with our HSBC account. I think Emirates NDB have a dining discount as well. Either way it allows us to go out and still manage our costs. Something that a lot of people in Dubai do. Groupon also works in Dubai I think, haven’t checked.

I’m not sure that makes me greedy or selfish, using discounts that are open to many people.

For what it’s worth, in terms of helping, I had a problem with the roster next(different thread) month. I emailed rostering and that they had it sorted within a week. They were very helpful.

[sealear]

I wouldn't call an ek roster 'easy', even 84 hrs. I don't hate EK, but I'm not delusional.

[felixthecat]

April is 14 days not working. 3 daytime turnarounds, 4 layovers. About 84hrs, 30 of which are taken up with the ULR. Easy.

Sounds like a reasonable roster, however from the flip side I (until very recently) had coming on for 6 months with a roster that consisted of turnaround, layover, 1 off, turnaround, layover , 2 off, turnaround, layover, 1 off, turnaround, layover , 2 off etc etc for many months. It was exhausting. Recently the roster has relaxed a little but I think more to do with high hours than anything else. Days off were 9-10 per month during that period. Rosters were consistently running into the 90+ hours and even the last few months they have been in the high 80s.

I don't think leave is the greatest problem IF you are single and are willing to take it at any time. However for the married guys with families, it becomes much more of a challenge, peak leave isn't easy to get.

As for being expensive......well yes it is crazily so. You do get paid more than most would back in the west, however, if you are not careful it slips through your fingers. Its great to get discounts but to run around just looking for discounts so as to live within your means, doesn't exactly make you feel like a valued professional. Back home I would have also used discounts but didn't feel as strapped when I didn't.

My disposable income has most definitely been eroded over the last 2+ years. 5% VAT 3% duty, inflation 7%+ gives a real term reduction of approximately 15% in the last year alone. This coupled with lack of semi contractual 3% and no increases for several years whilst flying maximum hours does grate somewhat.

I think things generally have reached there apogee here, which is unfortunate. That said there are still reasons for young thrusters to join, that said it is unfortunate that the terms have reduced to the stage where they are the only ones we seem to attract whilst we let the experience slip out of the door.

[Murrenfan]

Been here a while, and still enjoying it.

While I’ll be shouted down for this, the view you get from PPRuNe is a distilled and somewhat extreme view. The majority of people I fly with are happy.

If you’re thinking of joining EK then come to Dubai on holiday. If you like Dubai, then you’ll like working here.

For what it’s worth for this thread.
Last job would be 9 days off and 21 working.
April is 14 days not working. 3 daytime turnarounds, 4 layovers. About 84hrs, 30 of which are taken up with the ULR. Easy.
This is absolutely fake!!!!

[PPPPPP]

Hi Felixthecat, I’ve been there as well. When blocks of flights are so close together and you don’t know if you’re coming or going. Not nice.

My last gig would be 80-90hrs of multi sector days for a loco. Doing 4 take offs and landings in one day, with all the added problems of pax, baggage etc..... all for about 5hrs flying on a bad day. To do one sector to Europe which takes 6hrs, spend a day there and 6 hrs home..... that’s where I find this type of flying much easier.

We’ve definitely felt the cost of living increase here, but we’re still managing to get a good amount into savings each month. As my old local supermarket says, ‘every little helps”

Murrenfan. No need to fake anything. All I can say is I wish I was on the 380.... my mates roster seems even nicer.

[dubaigong]

PPPPPP

I wish there were more people like you.
I suggest that you start to organize some information days for many of my fellow collegues from EK and FZ to teach them how you manage to save so much money because what I hear from most of them is that they are really havind difficulties to cope with the rising costs ( in particular those with children at school )
The funny thing though , is that for somebody being here for so long , it's only your 8 posts on this website ( Under that name at least )...
Hope you will be able to help them... They definitely need it

[Econ101]

No need to fake anything. All I can say is I wish I was on the 380.... my mates roster seems even nicer.

Seems or is?:ugh:

Didn't know that EK office workers could also apply for an EPC card. How much do you pay? What is Desi? Where are crew bags loaded? What temperature options are there to keep your SA meat nice and cool in the 777?

PPPPPP, stop wasting your time and ours. Tell your bosses the easiest option is to treat us all as humans, stop the eroding conditions and give back what they have taken over the years.

........As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know....

Anyone working for EK past the 2 year honeymoon period just KNOWS...they share this with colleagues..hence it is so hard to find anyone capable to agree to a bond, and to 'safely' fly the shinny jets...



PPPPPP is this your official position?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Social Media Controller - Emirates Airline

Ref. JB1751132

Job Description
The Emirates Group is a highly profitable business with a turnover of approximately US$ 12 billion and over 50,000 employees. The Group comprises of Dnata, the successful Airport Ground Services and Travel Industry division, and Emirates, the Group's rapidly expanding and award winning international Airline. Emirates global network now sees it flying to over 110 destinations across 6 continents, operating a modern fleet of over 150 wide-bodied aircraft. Today the Airline has orders worth over US$ 68 billion for 200 more of the latest aircraft, with plans to operate to many more destinations in the months and years ahead. Essential to our continued business success as we expand will be the ongoing employment of high quality people to join our multi-cultural team of over 150 nationalities.

Dubai, a tourism centre and modern cosmopolitan city with high standards of healthcare, education and leisure pursuits for residents offers those we hire one of the most desirable lifestyle locations in the world. In addition to lifestyle and tax free salary benefits, the Emirates Group also offers professional development opportunities to help employees develop new skills and grow their careers successfully. Discover your future!

The Position: We are looking for a Social Media Specialist who will implement the social media strategy of the Emirates Group to ensure that social media is leveraged as a recognised and valued component of the integrated marketing mix in support of Emirates Group brands and business objectives. Collaborate across departments to support and protect our brand by making sure that consistent messaging is maintained and coordinate all client interactions.

Establish a social media community and develop sound relationships with all stakeholders in Corporate Communications, the business, suppliers and other identified target groups to proactively manage issues as they arise in collaboration with the Social Media Manager and Manager of Public Relations.

Salary & Benefits:We offer an attractive tax-free salary, paid in Dirhams, the local currency of the UAE.

Skills
Experience and Qualifications:
•Degree in Digital Communications, Journalism, Public Relations or Communications
•5 years of public relations, corporate communications or marketing expertise, with experience in social media/online community management and writing.
•An avid and recognised social networker, blogger, or on-line commentator will be preferred.
•Excellent social media writing skills to ensure colloquial tonality and style
•Strong knowledge of the internet and web technology, including social media toolset
•Excellent relationship building and communication skills
•Excellent understanding of the online marketplace and how social media sites fit into online marketing, advertising, public relations and crisis communications strategies.

Job Details

Job Location Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Company Industry Airlines/Aviation
Company Type Employer (Private Sector)
Job Role Research and Development
Employment Type 0
Monthly Salary Range Unspecified
Number of Vacancies 1
Job Ref. JB1751132

[SOPS]

Econ...you just may have nailed it.:ok:

[PPPPPP]

Econ101...... yep, totally nailed that one. When it comes to reasoned debate then using the Ad Hominem argument is always a winner. Points for at least doing some research to find an old job advert(how many aircraft do we have?), and asking for a shibboleth in the hopes of catching me out.

Well played indeed sir with your cast iron argument that since I like my job I must not be an Emirates pilot.

Dubaigong. Since Ad Hominem arguments appear to be the only answer you all have to someone who mearly states that he likes the job I’ll reply with like for like.

You’ve posted 113 times on the Flydubai jobs thread and only 6 times on the Emirates jobs thread so who exactly do you work for, as if its Flydubai then one should maybe ask about the interest you have in a EK vs EURO LOCO thread?(I’m guessing you have friends here and are therefore showing an interest which I’m fine with)

Of course going back to the original point, I simply decided to add my thoughts to the thread having worked both LOCO and EK. Apparently my opinions arn’t valid?

“and leave the right to EVERYBODY to voice his/her opinion on this PUBLIC forum”
Dubaigong, solo landing thread
10-2-2018

Econ101, if you’re going to quote someone, at least give them the attribute. I’m sure Donald Rumsfeld would appreciate the nod if you’re going to quote his known unknowns line.

[tripleslavin]

I know loads of guys that like being here, as do I. Is it perfect? Not by a long chalk. Major issues here on rostering and leave need huge radical changes. I've not even hit two years and have over 40 days sitting, zero leave in my first year. (yes I contacted everyone who breathes in EK without any action)

The small things guys whine about piss me off when the big ones are glaringly obvious to tackle first. Treatment of leave is nothing short of criminal. I don't work for the GCAA so I don't give a toss that they think 30 days is ok.

EK is certainly not the worst place to be and I generally have a great day out with great crew. Would I recommend it?.....only if you're stuck.

The changes happening here are a UAE problem not just EK, hence the price hikes and other social issues. The greed is becoming very noticeable.

I could live with some of the small issues but the rostering problems and leave need immediate attention. Numerous reasons why pilots aren't arriving and honestly i don't blame them. We can be positive, enjoy the job, as I do myself, but not blind.

I'm certainly not leaving any day soon but without changes that'll come sooner than I planned.

[Econ101]

"how many aircraft do we have?"...seriously... a totally commercial/management question...you are out of your league here and have only proved my point.

If life is so great, what on earth are you doing on pprune? Enjoy the Dubai lifestyle, keep taking out your Platinum card and asking for discounts - I am sure the ladies also love your discounts...they will definitely want to go out again and to plan a future with you.

We all like our job, the problem is the management, the way we are treated, the toxic culture, and punitive un-collaborative environment, hence many vent here.

When it gets too much, we leave. No collective bargaining or listening to your employees at EK - the only option is to jump ship.

This is the problem, and back to the thread - WHY are so many leaving? This time of year it is only about to get worse. LHS leaving, or considering leaving for orange - crisis management kicks in and in comes the likes of PPPPPP.

Pprune is actually EKs HR departments friend : this is the place to vent our frustrations. We write, tell it as it is, tell the truth/reality, feel slightly better for letting it out, and fly another day. Much cheaper than psychologists. Let us be. The opportunity to vent here keeps the operation in motion. PR posts are not welcome or advised.

You are totally misguided, as was Donald (can't believe you took it upon yourself to mention his name). He is an idiot, an idiot who feels those below him are even larger unintelligent idiots. We are sick of the utter management BS, disrespect, ignorance and disregard for those who actually do any work at EK...hence the quote...

Those considering leaving to join a low cost are in my opinion definitely wiser than anyone reading and considering joining EK at the moment. They realise what is important in life and what is not.

The fact so many asking about taking a pay cut and actually leaving speaks for itself.

PPPPPP, despite your great posts re platinum card discounts and the great life here in the desert, you will unfortunately not get a bonus this year, your KPIs will not be met, and more will jump ship than join in the coming months - reality/truth is hard to contain.

[mmmbop]

Been here a while, and still enjoying it.



A week ago PPPPP had no posts, now has 10. Can't even answer a simple question like 'how long have you been at EK?'

I can. 7 years, 6 months. That's how long I was at EK. And in that time one thing never changed - the need for EK to have office dwellers posting rubbish on this forum to try and trick the applicants into joining.

Your posts are breathtakingly transparent PPPPP. Which is what makes them so amusing. Have some credibility like 'tripleslavin' who posts genuine feedback : "hey I make the most of it, and it is working for me, but it has MANY MANY problems." But you can't do that because unlike triplesalvin, you have no idea what the life of a pilot at EK is actually like.

[dubaigong]

Econ101 and mmmbop , I am with you...

@pppppp

On your last post you are asking in which company I am , instead of answering my question

I don't really see what difference it will make because if you are here as long as I have been ( since 2010 ) , you should know that many people from both companies are from the same families.
There are pilots , cabin crew and even office workers in Emirates who have a wife , a brother , a sister , a husband , a son , a daughter etc... working at Flydubai and vice versa
So we know very well how it is in BOTH companies.
But for myself ( if your are still interested ) I have started in FZ and moved to EK but I have been a lot longer in FZ then EK that's why I Have a lot more posts in the FZ thread.
On top of that , I try to avoid to post too much nowadays , except when I see an obvious try to modify the reality to fool the potential joiners at EK or FZ.
Also I always find very suspicious when somebody timely pop up with 0 previous post to explain how things are great here...

[olster]

I too have also worked for FZ and EK. The problems are interchangeable and essentially equate to life in Dubai in general. However, the management style is familiar to both in that the punitive culture is always in the background. Not an honest or just safety culture in either, quell surprise.

[SOPS]

Just a thought....a new "Orange" guy arrives in EK...and all of a sudden we have PPPPP telling us about how hard it is in places like Easyjet and quoting adverts from Tesco. Is this a stretch too far...or perhaps something else?....just wondering.

[felixthecat]

You guys..... :) Your far too suspicious....there you go again putting 2 +2 together again to make 4 ;)

[Dz_flyer]

Nedul

Being picked up and dropped off door to door in a new BMW is an incredible benefit that no other airline offers afaik.

For you to describe this as "having to babysit an under qualified stink ball who's trying to kill you" is disgusting on so many levels, let alone completely inaccurate. Almost exclusively friendly, professional and clean....

Laundry is also another incredible benefit that makes working life easier. You seem to think that washing and ironing your entire uniform at home is quicker than spending 2 minutes in a line for Laundry. How can you ever be happy in the face of such logic?

Without fail, the guys with this attitude are horrific pilots, and ironically have to be babysat in the flight deck or the sim by the unfortunate soul that has to listen to their bs ranting. The same ones who shout at the crew over their cappuccino not being made to their taste, and then complain that no one came to visit them in the flight deck.

You are making everyone's life around you miserable. Please leave.

Edit: I would love to see these types work a summer at EZY. Getting up at 3am is hard, but 5 days in a row is soul destroying (and for your squidgy wife) - only to then have to iron your shirt, deice the car, drive around their car park, catch a bus, buy your boots sandwich, print your flight plans, eat their horrendous crew meals, drink their instant coffee, and yes get on your hands and knees to clean up the cabin in between each of your four daily sectors. It will be a humbling experience. Whilst your yearly hours might be ~750-800, your duty hours are >1200.

At EK you are put on a pedestal at work. This leads to current princess attitudes. I assure you, the EZY cabin crew will eat you alive.

Other reality checks: NHS vs EK clinic, sitting in economy between Sharon and Tracy for your November leave to Malaga, standing at the front of the cabin to make a PA, numerous >hour long slots, warming up a freezing aircraft, 25 min turns - rushing and stressing to keep to schedule throughout the day, only to wait 4 hours for an engineer to drive to the outstation to sign a tech log entry, and then 20 mins for stairs to get attached after landing etc etc.

Whilst EK has its problems, and we're all working too hard at the moment, I'm not so delusional to give it up for a Euro LCC. I can only imagine that you have never experienced it before, and have developed a romantic notion of 'manual flying, living in Europe, and sleeping in your own bed every night'.
😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍
Hat off buddy

[LHR Rain]

😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍
Hat off buddy


Are you really trying to compare a LOCO to a widebody operation? Why don’t you compare EK to BA or AF and see how far we are behind the norm?

[FlightDetent]

For reasonably experienced new joiners, BA seems to be at tough odds against the LCC these days, judging by the thread over here. AF/LH mainline do not accept that type of candidates from the outside, plus the language barrier, which puts them out of scope. Iberia also a no, SAS too fuzzy to tell. No need to mention Alitalia at all. Virgin and Norwegian LH maybe? KLM? I do not think Scoot or HiFly is something you had in mind. Aeroflot is SH and low cash, LOT low cash and seriously disjointed employment model. HKA probably done. KE not for everyone, and family not allowed. TK.

Comparing not like-to-like, but rather where the current or prospective workforce may turn to instead, gives the comparison real gunpowder. As in:

(cash saved in bank as a percentage of median income) * (annual vacation + local 12h "nights" home) / (duty hours).

In a sense, 30y career in LCC multiple sectors is not bearable in exactly the same manner as 30y ULH. So people crossing over in both directions is a natural way of coping. Similar may also apply for living home against enjoying the expat experience.

[gardenshed]

"Put on a Pedestal"
Wow just what are you smoking ?
And before you ask, I survived 14 odd years in EK before jumping to a LLC ( Not Easy or Ryanair), cant tell you just how much better life is here than still doled out at EK.
So I have to wash & iron my own shirts and drive myself to work, big deal, the mere fact I'm not doing LR & ULR flying with min rest in-between means I shall hopefully be able to enjoy some sort of old age and retirement.