FA2 Pilot Training - age concern?

[Thundercat]

I know there are already loads of threads on Naval Pilot training but i have a specific question that doesn't seem to have been discussed anywhere.

I'm 24 years of age and applying to the Royal Navy to be a pilot. I'm just coming up to the pilot ability test phase at RAF Cranwell.
My heart is heart is very much with fixed wing flying and i really want to focus my efforts on getting to fly the Harrier, although i realise you have to be the bogs dollocks to even stand a chance.

The question is - do i stand a realistic chance of getting to fly fixed wing for the Royal Navy, given that by the time I start at Dartmouth (if i get through) i'll be 25? I've been told that i may already be past my prime as far as fast jet pilots go, and i may be better consoling myself with rotory wing. Am i already over the hill or can i convince them that i may have the necessary skills?

Any advice hugely welcome!!

[Jackonicko]

"i", "Cranford", "rotory"?

My advice is to sharpen up your spelling!

On a more serious note, and in the near term only, if you want FJ, then why not apply to the organisation which still has 18 or so squadrons of them, rather than the one which has two under-strength units?

If you want Fixed Wing more generally, the argument is even more convincing.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[Thundercat]

Jackonicko, thank you for your advice, and I have indeed considered the RAF as a career choice also. However, one slight problem with that route - i'm already too old! I believe the maximum age that the RAF will take on FJ pilots on is 22. I'm already 24. The doors are closing fast!

[JSBell]

If you do go for RN choppers either go for the Merlin (new one to replace the Sea King, look nice IMHO) or the Lynx (I know one of the pilots on 815Sqn and the others seem like a nice bunch of guys.)

Get posted to RNAS Yeovilton and join the RN Aero Club to get a share in a Yak52 (I've flown in it and it's a very nice place, albeit a bit right-wing heavy.)

[Tourist]

Thats right JSBell, go Merlin which has never had any problems honest! or lynx with its amazing servicability!. But at least they look pretty on the ground:rolleyes:

[Colonel W E Kurtz]

There is some age bias in the RN, more so towards graduates. This generally comes from 'Upper Yardie' Officers who joined up at 16 and were promoted through the ranks.

If you were selected for Harrier, you would miss the last FA2 Operational Flying Training Course, so would learn on the GR7 or 9.

Be prepared to not fly very much and spend whats left of your twenties on holdover though.

Expect to do Dartmouth- two terms- followed by 9 month holdover - then Elementary Flying training- followed by 9 month holdover- then shawbury/ linton - followed by 9 month holdover- then your Valley- holdover- OFT/or Rotary Front line course.

Direct Entry Pilots are seen as 'expendable assets' to general seaman officers, and are seldom promoted above Lt Cdr, unlike seaman officers that transfer to become pilots then go back to ships.

I am not trying to put you off, just preparing you for what to expect!


Oh yes...Not to mention the fact that the Navy is always Bankrupt and the Merlin is slipping years to the right.....
:)

[JSBell]

Yeah that's true tourist :)

Went to Yeovilton (home of the RNs Lynx choppers) a while back and out of all the hangers there where only 7 choppers had rotor blades on them...

STOP all this advertising please. WWW

[Thundercat]

All I can say is that the majority of you seem to painting a fairly gloomy picture of our RN's flying capacity! For any aircraft, working in the corrosive conditions of an ocean environment is going to take a heavy toll on airframes and mechanical parts. It is hardly surprising therefore, that Naval equipment has to undergo frequent and rigorous overhaul to ensure the safety of it's aircrew.

Looking longer term then, if I had the luxury of options, which would be the more fulfilling to fly - rotary or Harrier? I'm not sure what length of service I would sign up to at present, but at the end of their term obviously for many ex-military aviators the airlines are a significant career option. Although I wouldn't necessarily choose the same route, return to civvy street has decisions that almost need to be decided at this stage! I was told by a RN Officer that flying helicopters was a preferred route for later airline selection due to the fact that you operate twin engines and have responsibility for other crew on board the aircraft, whereas the Harrier is only single engine and single person. How much truth is there in this?

[AllTrimDoubt]

If your sole consideration before joining is what to fly in order to secure a later airline job then the answer is simple...we don't want you! The Services - all of them - demand a bit more commitment. The job involves a little bit more than flying.

Go look somewhere else...like a flying school and pay for an ATPL.

If, however, you are serious about MILITARY flying, then do your homework. You will not impress AIB by talking about flying the FA2 when it is now (sadly) common knowledge that our future FJ pilots will transition via GR7/9 (and a few other options) to JSF.

Yes, we are concerned re age. But dedication and determination coupled with some solid flying ability during EFT will count heavily in your favour.

[MarkD]

CVF ain't built yet. Ocean is. It all depends on whether you believe Bliar and Brown won't run out of shekels to build them and buy JSF-Naval...

Over here is the reverse problem. We are busy privatising SAR and the remaining Alouettes/Gazelles/Dauphins must be feeling the arthritis at this stage!

[Thundercat]

AllTrimDoubt - DON'T START! I thank you for the more helpful element of your're post, but before you start questioning my motives I suggest you read my posts on this topic a little more thoroughly. My point is that i'm am considering my career in it's entirety, not just a portion of it. Now that may indeed mean a full term in the RN, but at present I'm at a junture in life which requires some serious decisions to be made - and yes that decision does include a plan post-military life if that's ok with you? I'm purely looking at options available, I'm NOT trying to use the Navy as a vehicle to lead me into flying airliners.

And to that end the question simply was - if you fly helicopter's do you still have an airline option open to you, should you ever decide to act on it later in life?

[Bri Uggin-Out]

Thundercat,

You haven't had a straight answer yet....... don't worry about the age thing.

There is no bias in terms of selection for fixed wing from an age point of view in the RN. There is, however, one on ability which is assesed at JEFTS.

25 is fine to enter Dartmouth with, probably makes it easier, especially if you have a sense of humour! I know.

Work hard and stay determined then you may become a junior pilot on a newly recommissioned naval air squadron flying a GR7/9 for the Royal Navy. Good luck

[buttonmonkey]

Thundercat,

Take comfort from the last post! My brother started Dartmouth at the same "advanced age" and secured a slot on the FA2 all within the last five years, so it can be done............

[Thundercat]

Bri Uggin-Out and buttonmonkey - thank's for taking the time to respond - you've cheered me up no end! After a series of pessimistic responses and usual meaningless banter I've got some helpful info back.

Also interesting to know about the GR7/GR9 training. Perhaps naively I wasn't aware that they were completely abolishing the FA2 training. I know the powers that be are planning to phase the Harriers out, but I thought that was all types, not just the FA2? If I'm successful in getting were I want to on the fixed wing training programme I wouldn't complete all the training to 2007 at the earliest. Does this mean that I would possibly be trained for the JSF's entry in 2008 or is it really too early days to comment?

The Cat.

[Archimedes]

Thundercat,

Buff and his chums, in their finite wisdom, decided that the SHAR force should be binned between 2004 and 2006.

Thus, as I understand it....

The two SHAR units will convert to the GR 7/GR 9, making a total of four front line GR 9 units (in the end). One of the RAF units Harrier units will go (and probably re-emerge as a Typhoon squadron?), giving two RAF and two RN squadrons. I believe that the intention is to have RN pilots serving with the RAF units and RAF pilots serving with the RN units (ah - almost like the 1930s....).

The GR 9 will be replaced by JSF under present plans - but the in service date of 2008 is for our American chums. JSF is meant to join up with UK plc in around 2012-2015 (I forget which...) to coincide with the CV(F)'s arrival. This, of course, assumes no slippage (not that that's ever happened to British projects before).

So, if you achieve your ambition, you'd probably end up flying GR 9s out of Cottesmore for about three-to-five-to-eight years (based on the dates you mention and the intended dates for JSF), before you'd move onto JSF.

More knowledgable souls than I can give the exact picture, but I think that's a reasonably accurate summary.

Good luck!