Ryanair Details please

[tomuchwork]

Good morning gents. I recently did the RYR DEC interview. Nice people at the interview. What I didn't get very clear was the pay(especially take home pay) when on a Ryanair contract(i have family and kids and want to fly out of my homebase only). I understood they offer irish contracts(fixed) and then you pay your social contributions in the country of your home base(e.g. Italy).

What can I expect to take home(not considering sozial contributions, that I can figure out easily)?

What is the basic salary and what can I expect to get on flight pay per hour?

Do I have to pay tax as well on the flight pay?

I think you got my draft, I would like to have an idea of my take home gross before they even send me a contract. Any help and info appreaciated. I even prefer if you PM this details to me to keep it confident if required. I really just need it for my decision making. Please do not start a RYR bashing thread here. Open a new thread for that if you wish.

Thank you!

Last but not least - I remermber they wrote about holidays? How many/year? How are they going to be consumed? Is it by taking 5 days of holidays you actually get your 4 days off, then 5 days holidays and then another 4 off before you start your next duty? So 13 in a row doable with just 5 holiday days? Or does it work different? Is there a realistic chance to have/get this holidays?

[CHfour]

It's not really possible to estimate net pay on the information you have given. As far as only wanting to fly from your home base that would only be likely if your base was not too seasonal. You need to check how many aircraft at your chosen base are parked for the winter.

[tomuchwork]

I try to get Rome, so seasonal should be not an issue I guess. For details how many ac are parked over the winter I probably need inside intel, I do not have that. That's why I ask here instead.

What is the basic pay gross? They did not specify that on the interview and said I will see it in the contract.

But I want to make up my mind if RYR is an option compared to my present employer - just to compare numbers at the moment.

I assume basic remains the same at all bases if employed directly with RYR plus then the hour pay(block).

Some actual figures would help, just found old values in the net.

Thanks.

[skyflyer737]

I'm afraid the gross pay at all bases is different, and even within some bases depending on how old your contract is. Ryanair has around 80 bases now, each with its own contract.

I can give you estimates, but they are just that and maybe plus / minus a few hundred Euros per month. In Ciampino or Fiumicino on a Ryanair contract you should expect to take home around €6000 net per month average across 12 months. This includes net basic pay and net sector pay. Both sector pay and basic pay are taxed, but they are taxed differently depending on which country you are in and even which routes you fly. In Italy, Italian domestic sectors are taxed differently from international sectors. You will probably fly around 90-100 hours a month from April to October and around 50-75 hours a month for the rest of the year.

In terms of annual leave, you will have one complete calendar month off with zero flying and this is likely to be in the winter. Additionally, you have 10 extra days off. You are correct that you get 13 days off flying by taking a block of 5 days. In the past it's been difficult to get blocks of 5 days off in the summer but the last couple of summers it's been much easier.

I hope this helps. Sorry I can't give more specific info. You'd have to ask someone actually based in CIA or FCO on the same contract for that.

[tomuchwork]

Thanks skyflyer737, that helps already a lot, at least I get an idea. So that is with paying tax in Ireland and then the social contribution in Italy?

As an yearly average that is not bad, comparing to my present employer and finally being at home every night sleeping in my own bed. Tired of being away all the time and being shifted through various hotels for a lot of nights in a row per month.

Maybe someone based in Italy can give me some final confirmation, but the deal sounds ok for me. Especially since you are not required to pay for your own rating anymore. Don't mind the bonding.

[tonik]

It's a fantastic company, a career choice!
Go for it!

[Avenger]

I would wait and see what base they actually offer!

[tomuchwork]

You are absolutely right Avenger. Due to personal reasons I am very curious which base they would offer, but there actually just a few that I can accept. Don't want to go into details, but that's how it is.

Again thanks to everyone who gave me some kind of idea about the figures, very appreciated!

[tomuchwork]

It's a fantastic company, a career choice!
Go for it!

I go with Sheldon from "Big Bang Theory" here - Sarkasm?


EDIT: Got the confirmation. Rome base as well. Any FCO or CIA Cpt around and willing to help me out with some info? PM of course. Thanks!

[skyloone]

I go with Sheldon from "Big Bang Theory" here - Sarkasm?


EDIT: Got the confirmation. Rome base as well. Any FCO or CIA Cpt around and willing to help me out with some info? PM of course. Thanks!

---------

Make sure you have a signed contract that is actually a Ryanair contract. If its not and you end up with a "contractor" contract via say Storm then it's a whole different kettle of fish. Contractors can be and are move all over the place.

To get a better understanding I suggest you contact the Ryanair Pilot Group. The RPG can enlighten you of many of the, shall we say nuances of Ryanair contracts and contractors / self employment/ limited companies etc...

As always check out the non cash elements that your current outfit offers and not just the headline cash figures. Medicals, food, parking, pension, sick pay, leave pay... etc.

Good luck

[Jwscud]

If you are in the left hand seat and on a Ryanair contract at a base close to your home Ryanair is a pretty reasonable job. They are starting to offer more options for part time work too (at least in the UK.)

If Rome is where you want to be, basing shouldn't be too difficult as CIA and FCO are both decent-sized bases with a high degree of permanence. Operating out of FCO is a massive pain in the backside though. If you are looking elsewhere, be aware Ryanair expands, contracts, opens and closes small bases on a whim and you might find yourself suddenly needing to move at very short notice as has recently happened in BLL, PSR, GRO, BRE and HHN.

[tomuchwork]

Thanks skyloone and Jwscud!

They asked me twice if I want a contract or direct employment(interview and call to confirm I made it).

I always wanted a direct contract with RYR, especially I do not want to change bases and stick in hotels anymore(it seems on a agency contract this it what normally happens to you).

So I go def for RYR contract.

Bases: That was my thought when asking for CIA, I know the airport, operated into it(and did layovers there). My idea was that they would not shut down such a big base(especially the low cost one) like rome. I know FCO from some previous airline jobs, was even based there for a while, horrible airport. To fly in, to make your way on the ground, to reach your aircraft. Would never go for FCO.

I am based already in Italy with my current employer, so I will just move my entire family to the south of Rome which is anyway a lovely area. And I hope I can stay there for a long time. If that is the case I will be happy.

My current employer is not that overly nice to us either. Ok, they pay hotels and proceeding flights, but that's because they need us there. More then happy if I have not to proceed anymore(except for sim or training) and NOT spend any second anymore in a hotel except for leisure.

Well, medical is not paid. But isn't there this 6000€ that they say it is here to cover medical, license, parking, etc.? Just to be sure they did not tell me something that is not true.

What about sick days/leave? Not paid at all or some limited days/year paid?

The conversion to an irish license must come out of my pocket(400€?). Sim is paid(LPC/OPC)?

Some other advice?

All inputs are really more then welcome.

Thanks!

[Pin Head]

Hi

While we are on, what is the time to command for an experienced of with 2000hrs on type and 10000hrs plus?

Thank you

[Speedbird83]

If you are on a RYR contract you get those 6000€ allowance to cover medical, parking, uniform, phone calls and hotel when you go to STN or EMA for your recurrent. They might send you out of base even if you are employed but it happens very rarely (once every two years maybe) and if they do they'll pay for your accomodation anyway. You get sick pay only after your first year of probation while you get holiday pay since the very beginning. The numbers depend purely on the base agreement of your allocated base.

For Pin Head
With that amount of hours you only need to do two RSTs, one winter and cover 500hrs minimum..so within a year I would say?

[Pin Head]

thanks. i have all the other bar the 800 with RVR

[S7EVIN]

Disregard tonik's posts, he's doing nothing but throwing **** on RYR on the italian forum.

You did well to seek for info here and not there even if apparently you're not safe even here from this kind of character...:ugh:

[tomuchwork]

I got very valuable information here, again, thank you all for that.

Made it much easier to join because now at least I know what to expect!

[Jwscud]

I would also add - join the RPG when you start!

[pudoc]

I would also add - join the RPG when you start!


5 minutes of your life you will never get back!

[MichaelOLearyGenius]

What's best, integrated or modular?

[skyloone]

I gather MOL not so keen on RPG and REPA for some reason. Must be worth five minutes just to find out why?

[tomuchwork]

Hi guys - let's turn this thread back into the right direction please.

I went through the contract, got my base(CIA). Some questions that came up whilst working through:

- it says they can move you to another base if they have the need to. How realistic is that with CIA? I mean, there should be enough flying all over the year(being located in the capital)?!

- brings me to my second question. The contract says the company may always opt to send me on unpaid leave in the winter season. Again - there should be enough flying out of CIA?

- This italian tax "thing" on domestic sectors. It means I should pay tax to italy INSTEAD of to Ireland if doing domestic sectors, right? How does that affect my salary? Better/worse then paying that in Ireland? Or was this already all considered when receiving some numbers from some of you(thanks again for that)?

I went through the base agreement and seem to understand it. Is there really ever a different roster over summer(as mentioned in the agreement) or is it just there "in case"?

All the rest is more or less as expexted for joining RYR, no big surprises. The "rough guide to RYR" is actually kind of funny as long as it does not hit you....

- brings up another question - how is it if you are really sick? e.g. getting influenza or having some other serious issue? Big problems or they accept a sick certificate with any big issues(considering you do not call sick every second, third month).

- Travel while on duty - e.g. if I go to the TR. Do I need to pay my luggage or not? Did not get that really from the fact sheet...

As usually feel free to drop me a confidential PM if you do not like to see some insights posted in public.

Thank you gents!

[skyflyer737]

1. It's highly unlikely they would move you to another base unless CIA downsizes or closes.

2. There will almost certainly be enough flying to mean forced unpaid leave is unnecessary. Usually they ask for volunteers for unpaid leave but it is very rarely forced on anyone.

3. I think you are right that sector pay on Italian domestic sectors is taxed in Italy rather than Ireland. My understanding (but stand to be corrected) is that this results in lower overall tax and therefore more money in your pocket. This was indeed calculated in the figures I originally gave. Expect an average of €6000 to €6500 per month across 12 months.

4. I've only ever known 5/4 even in the summer. Very occasionally they alter it but in 10 years at Ryanair I've never had mine altered over the summer period.

5. Sickness is fine. Ryanair say if you are sick for 1 or 2 days you don't need a doctor's certificate. If sick for 3 or more days you require some form of medical documentation but they do not insist on it if it's difficult for you to obtain. Overall, from my experience, the company these days is reasonable over sickness and accepts it happens. If you have an excessively high number of days then you are likely to be interviewed but initially in a relatively friendly manner.

6. For the type rating and any company travel (ie 'jumpseating' even though most of the time you can just take a passenger seat), you can take luggage and give it to the dispatcher and put it in the hold free of charge. They say one item of luggage for the hold is the maximum but in 99.99% of cases I am pretty sure you could put more in the hold if necessary.

Hope this helps. Good luck and enjoy yourself. It's a far better job and company than people on Pprune make out. Not perfect by any means but actually provides reliable, decent enough income, enjoyable flying and a stable roster.

[tomuchwork]

Thank you skyflyer737 for that positive information!

Thanks as well to all gentlemen that forwarded me valuable information per PM, very appreciated.

I see that the general attitude is a positive, however realistic one. I like that and I am very certain I will fit into that environment.

[172_driver]

Hate to be the party pooper, but having been on the receiving end of their treatment for a few years I have to say I am a bit cynical whenever their name pops up. The fate of Alghero and Pescara is not looking too good.

Ryanair says to cut Italian routes, jobs, blames government passenger tax | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-italy-ryanair-idUKKCN0VB27S)

Bremen and Hahn have been up for base reductions lately.
Oslo-Rygge's future is uncertain:

Ryanair could close Oslo Rygge base this winter - ch-aviation.com (http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/43639-ryanair-could-close-oslo-rygge-base-this-winter)

Just another reason to organize as a pilot group, don't trust their goodwill.

[tomuchwork]

No worries, I am pretty realistic(do this job far to long now, unfortunately) about T's & C's. Look into the ME threads, they are a real "eye opener".

That's why I asked for this base, it seems big enough not to be shrinked down too soon. After all it's the captial. Pescara was one of my secondary options, glad I did not went for it.

Well, another journey, let's see where this one goes ;-)

[172_driver]

I wish you all the best and the colleagues are, usually, a great bunch of people.

[Kudlaty]

Hi guys!

I didn't want to start a new thread about Ryanair so I will just post it in this thread.

Does anyone know the currect situation with regards to type rating and training? I heard that there have been delays for people waiting to start type rating and then on line training because Ryanair didn't have enough facilities and training captains to train all the cadets?
Any news on that, has it got better recently?

Thanks for info!

[tomuchwork]

@Kudlaty

I am just starting with RYR. But it seems they still have it organized. Already got asked during interview if I could make a particular date in terms of typerating. Then, the contract says the same(start date which is the first day of TR). In case they delay it means they will have to pay me basic salary till I start finally.
So I guess they are very keen to make me work for my money ;-)

[Kudlaty]

@tomuchwork

I sent you a PM, I will greatly appreciate if you could take a look at it :) Thanks!

[italian stallion]

Hi guys
I am heading to Stansted for an assessment /interview next week.
Any information you have to help my process and decision be much appreciated.
Many thanks

[Lazydogg]

My advice would be tell them what base you want and take the permanent contract if you are successful. I'm just a line Captain so I'm not involved in the process but I have been told by some newer colleagues that the interview and sim is very straight forward with no tricks.

I know for a fact the assessors are a great bunch and very friendly. They are looking for very good CRM and TEM. Remember the cockpit gradient is quite low in Ryanair so speak up and put your point across whichever seat you are sitting in. Most importantly safe and sound decision making and competent manual handling is the key. They are not trying to catch you out.

Good luck.

[squawkident.]

Hi Guys,

I'm interested in applying as a non rated DEC. Could anyone pls give me a rough estimate of a LTN/STN salary, gross and net?

Thanks all

[speed_alive_rotate]

Hey midnight cruiser: Is Dublin full up even for new recruits and first officers or just for captains?

[LZ-DOC]

Any idea on T/Cs?
Wizz local contract has lowest salaries of all bases...

[italian stallion]

Just had an assessment at Stansted which after what I thought was a good interview and sim ride was emailed the following day and told NOT SUCCESSFUL. 3 of us, I was the only one with jet time and type rating and command experience
Anyway we were told there are no UK /Irish bases available, all full and with waiting lists, any other bases outside of UK you will pretty much get.

[tomuchwork]

Sorry to hear that italian stallion(lol that Nick).

3 of us as well on my interview, all very experienced jet(medium, me as well heavy) Captains. One typerated, the other 2(including me) NTR.

Unfortunately we did not exchange contact details, so I do not know how the other 2 guys did. The rated guy, which played PNF/PF for both of us NTR on our sim sessions made a very good impression to me as well. Curious how it went for him.

They normally reply very fast, got positive answer within 2 or 3 days, do not remember anymore excatly.

Maybe give it another shot in a few months?

[A1A]

@italian stallion
Thank you for information (Stansted). Actually, would be kind and tell me did you have technical question exam (ATPL) and HR exercise ?
I guess that sim-ride was assessed at B737 sim. Please tell me (I have not got experience- NTR), what kind of skill for NTR pilots they are looking ? (advice please)
I'm interested for eastern Europe bases, for example Romenia, Bulgaria, Croatia etc.

[disco87]

What are the chances of NYO base these days, last time I checked they told me it wasn't possible.

[TypeIV]

What are the chances of NYO base these days, last time I checked they told me it wasn't possible.
Huge amount of Swedanians in RYR all waiting/hoping for NYO

[swingstate]

@italian stallion
Thank you for information (Stansted). Actually, would be kind and tell me did you have technical question exam (ATPL) and HR exercise ?
I guess that sim-ride was assessed at B737 sim. Please tell me (I have not got experience- NTR), what kind of skill for NTR pilots they are looking ? (advice please)
I'm interested for eastern Europe bases, for example Romenia, Bulgaria, Croatia etc.

You are pretty much guaranteed to get your choice of base if you want to go to Eastern Europe. There are bases opening in Romania which they will welcome you with open arms for. Only exception is Budapest. There's probably 50 ex-malev's waiting for that one so forget about it.

[A1A]

@swingstate
Thank you for information ;) Best regards.

[skyloone]

Hi Guys,

I'm interested in applying as a non rated DEC. Could anyone pls give me a rough estimate of a LTN/STN salary, gross and net?

Thanks all

SIdent.

There is no salary unless you're on a Ryanair contract. You'd more likely to be offered a contract via a Ltd company in Ireland. You get a roster, not a salary. There is much detail if you search any forums. Not likely to be offered a UK base at the moment. That said one could be offered a UK base to get you in the door but if a contractor you could be floated around the network. Not great, unless that's you thing. The famed 5/4 roster rapidly becomes a 7/2.

[Luibar]

Hi,

I appreciate your inputs as I’m trying to get this information as much accurate as possible.

As far as I understand, on a full Ryanair contract, you get an Irish contract regardless of which European base you get with tax deducted at source for the basic pay. Is that correct? What is the gross basic salary for Captains on European bases? Is there any annual increment on salary?

As for the sector pay, my understanding is that you are paid a certain amount per block hour on which you must pay taxes on your home base country if the flying is on domestic sectors, otherwise you will be taxed in Ireland, right?

Regarding the pension, is it a matched pension contribution where Ryanair will pay €500 monthly provided you make the same contribution from your monthly pay before tax?

You get one full month off with full basic salary and you get paid for 18 holiday days on that month. What is the rate for each holiday day?

The annual allowance for miscellaneous expenses (medicals, uniform, etc) is it a one sum pay or is it a monthly value added to your salary?

Thanks. :ok:

[speed_alive_rotate]

Are the choice of bases starting to improve , would you be most likely to get one of your 3 as a new cadet? Judging by what Ryanair have said regarding Brexit it would obviously be mad to put a UK base down I am assuming?
What are Irish bases like Dublin-full to capacity?
Would be great to hear some information from those on the inside.

Kind Regards,
SAR

[speed_alive_rotate]

Morning gents ,
Would anyone be able to steer me in the right direction as to how many aircraft are based at each base location. Is the below link the most accurate for Ryanair??
Appreciate any help at all ,
Many Thanks ,
SAR
Current, future and former Ryanair bases (http://ryanair.site-forums.com/t2552-current-future-and-former-ryanair-bases)

[NEDude]

Does anyone know how they are handling the flights in and out of CPH now that the base closed? They have some very early flights so they must either be on layovers of have crews doing TDY without it being an official base. Any idea if they might try re-opening CPH?

[jeehaa]

KUN-CPH-LTN-CPH-KUN
No layovers and definately no reopening op CPH base

[LLuCCiFeR]

Maybe the Germans might have some "details" for you? http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/581230-ryanair-police-raid-germany.html ;)

p.s. don't come complaining in 3-5 years!

[FlyHigher]

Anyone with the terms on offer at Lisbon for Captains?
Thanks.

Happy landings to all.

[Clandestino]

Any truth in rumour about 11-7 patterns being offered?

[jeehaa]

Nope, not even a runour. Just no

[FlyHigher]

Waiting for an assessment date as DEC non rated.
What can be expected regarding technical questions and simulator assessment profile?
Thanks.

Happy landings to all :ok:

[flyac]

Hey folks,
I am very curious about the flight pay per hour as a Captain with RYR.
Ppjn says 50€ per hour but is this still accurate?
Futhermore, i would be very keen to know if there is a 'Pay Scale' for SBH?
Is it the same with all bases or is it dependent on a specific Base (eg. SXF)?
Many questions i know but it would be very important for me to make a decision regarding RYR.
Thanks in advance.

[Depone]

flyac,

Italy:

€27 per scheduled block hour net of tax but all countries/bases have their own rates.

Basic pay €66k plus €5k allowance and 8% pension in that same base.

About €10k gross, €6k net pcm in that Italian base.

D.

[flyac]

Thank you Depone, already helps a lot to get an intuition for the numbers.
However, do you know whats the ~net pay at Berlin-Schönefeld or other bases in Germany?
Is it one of the better paid countries/bases?
Thanks again.

[5 RINGS]

Hello there,

Could anyone shed some light on DEC contrats please (ryanair contract not contractors)?

What's the current basic?
Monthly sector pay to be expected?
Still Irish contract or local contract with local NI & pension?
Company pension scheme?
Any performance bonus/shares?
Staff travel (ID90, ZED...)?

Thanks a lot

[MaverickPrime]

Hi, doing a bit of premature career planning.....
Could someone let me know, PM me if you don't want to post here, what pay to expect in ALC/AGP/BCN as a FO and Cpt?
Is there permanent contracts offered in Spain at FR?
Do they base LTC/TRI/TRE in any of the above bases?

Many thanks!

MP

[Lokki]

I'm curious, is there anyone who within the last few months has been offered a UK base as a cadet?

[mponse]

I'm curious, is there anyone who within the last few months has been offered a UK base as a cadet?

@Lokki, the only two RYR cadets I know got their bases in the UK.

[samca]

Ryanair contract FO salary in Spain. Flying 65 hours around 3400 euros nets. Flying 90 hours 4300 Euros nets. That including allowance. So every 6 months you Pay your hotel and food in the sim plus AirPort parking, uniform, medical...
Tickets, White tickets 50% discount Ryanair flights for your parents, whife/husband and childrens + 6 Blue tickets per year that only Pay tax and you can give anyone.
Pension. No, but If you decide to put money in a pensión plan they match the quantity.
Licence Insurance no.
Tickets ID90 no
ZED no
Bonus no
Also there is an extrapayment of almost 10 Euros Gross per black hour for FOs that comply with the company requirements for the command upgrade BUT even If you comply with the requirements doesn't mean that you gonna recieve this money, some bases is a decition strictly of your Base Captain.
Hope this helps you to have a general picture.

Rgds

[5 RINGS]

Thank you some much Samca.

Any idea of Capt figures?

As for pension, when you say ryanair matches your contributions to a plan, is there any cap apllicable, or do they match whatever sum you decide to put in?

Can you confirm Irish contract as opposed to local i.e Spanish?

Thanks for your feedback.

[Vokes55]

With 1100 pilots leaving Ryanair in the last 12 months (including over 300 captains), why are people still considering this as a positive career move?

[zerotohero]

I belive for Captains its a maximum of £5000 match. You can elect to pay more but thats the most they will do. F/O's are likely lower.

Euro land not sure as thats UK contract.

[samca]

I think they match until 3000 Euros for FOs. I'm not completely sure. For captains they match 6000 euros

[zerotohero]

Thats nearly half what another UK operator gives you.

Ryanair is still a pretty poor package but the 5/4 is handy for all the guys who have no chance to ever live where they want to. Free jumpseating is the sweetener.

I think I might have been happier as a Manager of my local McDonalds but its a bit late in the day now.

[ROKVIATOR]

Zerotohero, That kind of affirmation makes me puke, I'd love being in your situation flying in a "good" cia.

[MaverickPrime]

Thats nearly half what another UK operator gives you.

Ryanair is still a pretty poor package but the 5/4 is handy for all the guys who have no chance to ever live where they want to. Free jumpseating is the sweetener.

I think I might have been happier as a Manager of my local McDonalds but its a bit late in the day now.

Saying that it seems to have got better. Five years ago I heard it was £81k/yr gross for a UK Cpt. Although now it seems to be more like £100k/yr+ gross in the UK. Saying that, I'm an outsider looking in so feel free to correct me!

RE Spanish contracts. Are Ryanair contractors in Spain entitled to use Spanish social security? I.e. Can you use the local doctor, are you paying towards Spanish state pension? (it's pretty generous compared to UK). Sorry for all the specific questions. Just trying to build up a picture!

[samca]

The answer to If you can use doctor' from social Security in Spain is yes even If you are working with contractors, it doesn't matter becouse for "Hacienda" If you live more than 6 months Per Year in Spain you MUST do the "Declaración de la Renta" so you are paying spanish taxes every year and can use spanish social services.
Rgds

[Global_Global]

Are Ryanair contractors in Spain entitled to use Spanish social security? YOU are entitled to anything that YOU sign up for and YOU pay for. Since all the down sides are to YOU and all the benefits to your contracted party called RYR.... :(

In short YOU will be screwed at some point if YOU get a situation when YOU cannot work when YOU are sick or disabled or if YOU have not paid enough into your pension... As soon as that happens the contracting party RYR has no obligation to YOU...

So as long as YOU intend not to get sick or disabled it is fine....

[mponse]

The answer to If you can use doctor' from social Security in Spain is yes even If you are working with contractors, it doesn't matter becouse for "Hacienda" If you live more than 6 months Per Year in Spain you MUST do the "Declaración de la Renta" so you are paying spanish taxes every year and can use spanish social services.
Rgds

Samca, I think you're mixing "Hacienda" (Spanish Tax Office) with "Seguridad Social" (Spanish Social Security Office). They are two very different things. As you said, if you live more than 6 months in Spain you become automatically a tax resident, than means you have to pay taxes in Spain (to "Hacienda").

You will also have to pay Social Security and that is what gives you the Spanish social security benefits. In the case of a contractor ("autónomo"), those benefits are restricted because you can choose how much you want to pay (kind of). So unemployment benefits, sick leave, pension, etc. will depend on how much you pay every month to the "Seguridad Social".

[MaverickPrime]

Samca, I think you're mixing "Hacienda" (Spanish Tax Office) with "Seguridad Social" (Spanish Social Security Office). They are two very different things. As you said, if you live more than 6 months in Spain you become automatically a tax resident, than means you have to pay taxes in Spain (to "Hacienda").

You will also have to pay Social Security and that is what gives you the Spanish social security benefits. In the case of a contractor ("autónomo"), those benefits are restricted because you can choose how much you want to pay (kind of). So unemployment benefits, sick leave, pension, etc. will depend on how much you pay every month to the "Seguridad Social".

Bit messy this Ryanair business!

Surely then, if your Spanish based, you pay your taxes and social security solely in Spain not Ireland? Would there not be some bi/multilateral EU tax agreement :confused:

I've seen first hand that the full social security contribution in Spain is high if you are self-employed!

Suppose a better question to ask would be - would a FO earn on average €3700net in Spain if they were fully paying all taxes and social security?

I suppose an even better question to ask - will they not just offer you a permanent contract....

[172_driver]

Surely then, if your Spanish based, you pay your taxes and social security solely in Spain not Ireland? Would there not be some bi/multilateral EU tax agreement

Don't be so sure, it seems Ireland is getting most of the dough anyway. Those pesky Irish accountants tax it at source before they pay it out to you. Then it's up to you to declare that in whatever country you're tax resident. Based on the bi-lateral tax agreement you may come out paying no more taxes. Still, the money went to the limericks and not to your kid's school education.

Note that I have no first hand experience with Spain, but this is how it works for many Brookfield/Storm contractors in other European countries. Probably same for Ryanair employees as those are Irish contracts too. I think only Italy has a variation to that where Italian tax is deducted for domestic flights. This was a few years ago and might have changed.

[ExDubai]

Note that I have no first hand experience with Spain, but this is how it works for many Brookfield/Storm contractors in other European countries. Possibly Ryanair employees to.

Yepp, and that's the reason why certain german based pilots had some visitors in the early morning. Remember the last police raid? Isn't that long ago.....


http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/581230-ryanair-police-raid-germany.html

[samca]

I think that for the time being the Captains only can work with Mcginley and there will not be the option of Brookfield anymore. Probably any captain can confirm this fact.

[MaverickPrime]

There was a comment on this thread a few days ago stating the precise figures before and after tax for a UK based Captain on permanent contract. Its been deleted now, anyhow thanks for the info!!

Folks, thanks for the info on Spanish Social security etc, I think we have made the issue as clear as possible on a public forum.

I'd personally much rather work on a permanent employee contract. However, if you are making the choice to settle in a country for the longterm its good to know that your stamp is fully paid up for the future!

[tony the jesus]

I have a personal pension plan in my home country. Is it possible to use this pension plan to get the contribution from Ryanair or do you need to setup a new pension plan in Ireland in order to get the contribution from Ryanair?

Thanks.

tony

[FlyHigher]

I have been offered a position as DEC on a Portuguese base.
Anyone can share the average take home for a Captain based in Portugal on a Ryanair contract?
I was told that domestic sectors are taxed in Portugal and international ones in Ireland. So it can be a bit confusing.

Happy landings to all :ok:

[zerotohero]

Surely your contract will state how you are taxed and where.

O wait it's a mystery until your pay check arrives. Then you sit and wait for the tax investigation a few years later.

It's good there.

[RAT 5]

If you are an employee would the onus of the tax situation fall squarely on the employer. You are a PAYE employee. Surely if you are based in Portugal you would be subject to Portuguese charges & laws. Did not ez have this problem some years ago with Dortmund/Berlin & Paris. Did they not have local based crews on UK contracts, salaried in UK and taxed in UK? Did the Germans & French not disagree and the local judges ruled that locally based crews had to be salaried & taxed locally?
If that is the case then other employers can't keep trying to fudge it in another manner. The precedent is set.

[Scuderia46]

Like RAT 5 said. If you will be directly employed by ryanair then you must pay taxes in the country where you are based. Portugese taxes aren't the best, ask the easy guys based in Porto and Lisbon....

[FlyHigher]

Well, thats the point. Contract is an Irish one. Although you need to pay portuguese tax on the domestic sectors, international sectors are taxed in Ireland expect social security that is fully taxed in Portugal. I think Italy have the same issues for the pilots based there.
As far as I was told, Easy have Portuguese contracts for pilots based in Portugal.

[zerotohero]

That is only 3 parts of the puzzle.

Domestic sectors taxed in Portugal
International ones taxed in Ireland
Social security payments in Portugal
Basic pay taxed in = ??????? It should be in Portugal

Or are you not on a proper PAYE contract and employed on one of there magical limited company deals where you are a director.

Issue there is your not a company. Ryanair make you start one. They choose your agency and they choose your accountant and they pick the other guys in your company to join you as a director.

Then you employ yourself but don't pay employer social security payments as there a fortune and you would then earn nothing. So you don't fit that employment model properly either.

I hope it's answer A and your PAYE in Portugal and paying tax there as that's how it should be done.

[172_driver]

I think you have to look at each individual country to determine when you are tax liable. Ireland for instance have you tax liable when you are either a resident or your income is derived in Ireland. For some reason Ireland find it appropriate to make it your "tax home" for a) contractors, as their Ltd. is set up in Ireland b) employees, as they're on Irish territority during work, EI-registered aircraft. Finally it seems some countries, Italy and Portugal at least, have spoken out against this relationship and have you pay local taxes on domestic routes. I found it very strange to pay the majority of my taxes in Ireland even though I had never put my foot on that island a single day that year. Double taxation treaty with my country of residence sorted out so I wasn't taxed twice. Hence, the society which I benefited the most from got a big fat 0 of my salary. Reason has escaped the field of business.

Additionally, all countries I am aware of you tax liable where you are domicile. This may or may not be the country where you are based. Domicile is loosley defined as the country where you have the strongest family and economic ties. In my case it was a third country other than Ireland and the country where I was based. In the country I was based I was living under the radar, to avoid a third opinion of where I should pay tax. People that were based in Germany probably regrets that approach right now.

Lastly, an EU directive from 2012 has straightened out the coordination of social security in Europe. The "one size fits all" approach now makes it your responsibility as a contractor pilot, and Ryanair's responsibility for employees, to pay social security in the country where you are based. This may not be at all a good solution for you and personally I have lost money that I will never get back from this. But that's what the law says....

[FlyHigher]

It is a Ryanair contract not with the broker. I was informed by Ryanair that according to Portuguese regulation you have to pay local tax on domestic sectors and it applies to all items of your salary. That is why I find it quite confusing. The biggest issue here is you expecting a certain take home pay and when you get your pay slip surprise it wasn´t even close.
In another exercise if you make lots of domestic flights/working days you achieve a scenario where you pay the lowest tax in Ireland and in Portugal, although at the end of the year you can find yourself paying a huge bill to the tax man.

[mackoi]

Hi,

I'm going to start my training with the company soon and I've been running some numbers by my own. I don't know if these numbers are correct so please feel free to analyse them by your self and correct me.

Assuming:

- McGinley contract
- Paying taxes in Ireland (20% until 32800€ gross and 40% above that)
- Paying Social Security (SS) in Spain (Spanish base)
- Employee SS tax in Spain 6.35% and Employer SS tax 33.30%
- Second year at Ryan (800 hours in the company)
- Flying 800 hours in the second year

Let's say that we have no costs deducted, so all the gross income is taxable:

Gross income expected: 52.900€ (700 hours at 65.5€/sbh + 100 hours at 70.5€/sbh)
Taxes in Ireland (over gross): -14.600€
SS contribution (6.35%+33.30% over gross): -20.974,85€

Total net for the year: 17.325,15€
Average net per month (12 months): 1.443,76€

Is this correct?

What pilots are receiving is way more than that. Is this because they are not paying the SS Employer contribution?

[zerotohero]

Thats a well put together calculation, i date say you could up it nearer €2000 with reasonable expenses.

And yes not paying Employer SS is exactly what a lot of contractors don't do and I guess is 100% wrong and illegal. Its also the reason I jumped ship when I was forced onto one of these shady LTD company contracts when I did my upgrade.

It was a step to far.

All my own opinion of course and my thoughts have zero legal knowledge or basis. I am just a pilot.

[RAT 5]

Do you ask a tax accountant how to fly an a/c? Do you ask an a/c HR guy how to calculate international taxes?

[172_driver]

- McGinley contract
- Paying taxes in Ireland (20% until 32800€ gross and 40% above that)
- Paying Social Security (SS) in Spain (Spanish base)
- Employee SS tax in Spain 6.35% and Employer SS tax 33.30%
- Second year at Ryan (800 hours in the company)
- Flying 800 hours in the second year

Let's say that we have no costs deducted, so all the gross income is taxable:

Gross income expected: 52.900€ (700 hours at 65.5€/sbh + 100 hours at 70.5€/sbh)
Taxes in Ireland (over gross): -14.600€
SS contribution (6.35%+33.30% over gross): -20.974,85€

Total net for the year: 17.325,15€
Average net per month (12 months): 1.443,76€

Is this correct?


Not really correct.

€52900 is your company's income, not your personal gross salary.

The company's income each month is supposed to cover the social contributions ( a percentage of your income) + a salary to you as an employee. That salary is variable depending on how much you fly and invoice McGinley for your services.

If your company invoices McGinley €4408 euros each month your gross income, called X, would be: X + 0,333X = 4408. I get it to: €3307.

€3307 is the basis for taxation in Ireland. I would guess that the employee social security is a percentage of that sum too. Where I come from their is no such thing as employee's social contributions. It's the employer only that is responsible for paying social contributions.

When you buy computers, pay hotels and food, mobile phone bills, new headset.. not to mention a Type Rating.. for your hard earned (at some point taxed) money you can claim that as a company expense. These expenses are something your company has to pay back to You as a private individual. In the beginning of your Ryanair career you can let your company, with its money, pay out these expenses to you instead of paying out any salary. You don't have to take out any salary at all, in which case you don't pay any tax or social security at all, and people talk about the famous "retention rate of 100 %". Naturally, the expenses will dry up eventually and you will be forced to pay social contributions and income taxes like any other company in the world. A good rule of thumb is; you end up with 50 % of your company's income in your pocket.

[172_driver]

Do you ask a tax accountant how to fly an a/c? Do you ask an a/c HR guy how to calculate international taxes?

That's a statement with merit.

I just wanted to clear up the common confusion of gross salary, it's not the same as your company's income.

[mackoi]

So 172 driver, with some expenses taken into account we are talking about 2000-2200€ average per month during the second year at the company (for contractor cadets).

If we say that actually only 11 months are paid (because of the unpaid holiday period) this is the same: 2180 - 2400€ per month (11 months) + 1 month unpaid.

It becomes obvious that the most favourable strategy is to remain based in Ireland where the employer SS is 0%, thus increasing by a 33% the income with respect to Spain.

Numbers are even worse in other countries where the SS taxes are higher and the cost of living is higher as well.

[MaverickPrime]

A friend of ours has recently been to see the accountant about change of tax residency from the U.K. to Spain; which any Ryanair pilot based in Spain ought to do as well. They were told that they will not be liable to pay further tax and social security in Spain if the amount of tax and NI they pay in U.K. exceeds what they would be liable for in Spain.

Assuming this is the precedent, your Ltd company pays employer social security and you pay tax and social security in Ireland. You would then need to see your Spanish accountant to ensure that your tax and social security contributions satisfy Spain's requirements.

It's worth noting that there is a bilateral agreement between Ireland and Spain for both tax and social security so you don't double pay either.

This whole Ltd contract carry on is very messy. Truth is no one on this forum really knows the answer as its so complicated. If you want to make Ryanair work longterm you really need to get yourself on to a direct contract with Ryanair ASAP from what I can see, although even then, if based in Spain, you would still need an accountant in Spain to register your tax residency and returns.

[zerotohero]

The type rating is easier than working all this out properly.

As previous post. Should really just be PAYE and your take home is just that. Anything wrong Mr Tax man from what ever country should just go see Ryanair and leave the pilot well alone to worry about things that need worrying about. Maybe flying a plane for example

[mackoi]

Yep, that's why I'm worring about it now instead of doing it during my training and further life as a pilot.

[mackoi]

BTW what are the requirements to get a direct Ryanair contract and get rid of all this messy scheme?

[172_driver]

So 172 driver, with some expenses taken into account we are talking about 2000-2200€ average per month during the second year at the company (for contractor cadets).

Those are similar to numbers I have heard from Germany, yes, where the tax authority has been very active to ensure things are done right.

My experience, although a few years out of date, was a take home in the region of €4000 per month spread over a year. One big reason for that however was I remained on grandfather rights paying Irish PRSI (Pay Related Social Insurance) of only 4 %.

It becomes obvious that the most favourable strategy is to remain based in Ireland where the employer SS is 0%, thus increasing by a 33% the income with respect to Spain.

The PRSI in the case of self-employed pilots is 4 % of reckonable earnings in Ireland, it's an employer's responsibility to pay (which in this case is your own company). There are different classes of SI and for normal employees I think it's a bit higher. There were talks about this in the past if Ryanair's self-employed pilots maybe should've been in a different class thus paying more. And also who should've paid, contractor or Ryanair. However, not sure if anything ever came out of that??

[Luibar]

mackoy, you will get ride of a messy scheme but look at FlyHigher concerns...

As for getting a direct contract with Ryanais, try asking for one.

[mackoi]

Probably I should wait for a couple of years at least before asking for a direct contract with Ryanair.

[mackoi]

I have run some more numbers for your joy:

Evolution of average income per month (during each year) in an Spanish base under McGinley contract paying full SI in Spain (employee + employer) and taxes in Ireland. 800 hours per year are assumed

These are not real numbers, just my calculations and predictions and I am not an accountant. I though it would be a good idea to share my thoughs

Year| Company gross income| Accountable expenses|Net average income per month
1| 42.860,00 € | 20.000,00 € | 2.717,06 €
2| 52.900,00 € | 20.000,00 € | 3.178,39 €
3| 56.400,00 € | 2.000,00 € | 2.532,79 €
4| 70.400,00 € | 2.000,00 € | 3.001,03 €
5| 112.400,00 € | 2.000,00 € | 4.405,76 €
6| 112.400,00 € | 2.000,00 € | 4.405,76 €

During years 1 and 2 we have a significant ammount of expenses from the training period. The lowest income is during year 3 where the epenses are dry. At some point of year 4 a promotion to captain is expected and the income raises again and becomes stable from year 5 and on.

These numbers vary greatly from country to country.

[zerotohero]

That's a decent livable income provided you have no or minimal training costs to repay. You don't live at home and rent where you work. And you don't expect a Porsche until you make LTC/TRI and have money in the bank again.

Otherwise it's abismal for a Captain compared to what I make. Which is also a little sub par to some other companies.

[Talewind]

Can anyone tell me what a First Officer based in Stansted on a Ryanair contract (not McGinley or Brookfield) gets paid? Also what other benefits there are such as holidays, pension etc
Thanks

[RAT 5]

Can someone offer a comparison of another 'profession' that requires such huge amounts of effort, education and money to enter; pays reasonable amounts of money to execute the job in hand after lengthy qualification; demands such responsibility and exacts such huge social sacrifices; and where the members of such a profession are asking such basic questions about their employment status?
IMHO this is madness to the nth degree. For gawds sake this is EU 21st century. WTF!
Not only that; add all the questions about basic treatment as an employee. What ever happened to self-respect?

[Chirpy Pilot]

Going for assessment DEC early December. Interested in Cyprus or Athens base. Anyone like to comment who has worked for Ryanair out there?

[Lokki]

It'd be good to hear of a typical day for a Ryanair pilot based in the uk?

[zerotohero]

Rock up 50mins before off blocks. The young keen F/O will have all the paperwork ready. The cabin crew will be chomping at the bit to get on board so you look at the F/O and say any issues? He says no and you tell the girls to get the hot water maker on.

Sign the flight plans and think of any slightly logical reason for some extra fuel. Walk out to the plane and let the F/O kick off so you have time to check the tech log and notams.

Do your 4 sectors and on the last the cabin crew are gone like a rat up a drain pipe. The F/O went slightly before that to file the paperwork and you retract the air stairs and walk back to your car.

Thats pretty much it in a nut shell.

Of course I could be talking complete fiction and fantasy so take all this with a pinch of salt.

[kungfu panda]

Mackoi: Is that 4405 Euro net for a Captain inclusive of everything, I mean per diem etc?

If it is I am truly surprised. Roughly speaking it's the same as I would net in Europe as a heavy turboprop First Officer in 1994. Forget about any inflation, it's the same actual number.

[mackoi]

As I said those numbers are for contractors under McGinley contract assuming 800 hours per year and some other hypotheses like Spanish base. Numbers vary greatly from base to base depending on the SI of each country.

I did the calculations by myself so these ARE NOT REAL NUMBERS, just a prediction

[Jwscud]

zerotohero - all too close to the bone!

[VJW]

Kunfu panda I guess your age is wrong on here, otherwise in 1994 you'd have been 13 ;)

[Luibar]

Drifting a little from the main topic, what are the main duties of the base captain and cabin crew supervisor at each Ryanair base?

A couple of days ago I was at a coffee shop in the airport and a few Ryanair cabin crew were there talking about how nice the base captain is but not the cabin supervisor. Isn’t the base captain responsible for flight and cabin crew?

I do not work for Ryanair and I am not applying for them, just in case… :E

[Vokes55]

The base captain is the one who calls the pilots on their days off to ask them why they didn't do a second RVSM check on a flight three weeks previous, the base supervisor is the one who gives disciplinary meetings to cabin crew for not selling enough Boxerchips.

[recall_checked]

@Vokes55

You forgot the part where the base captain chases FOs around the crew room prodding them with a stick until they upgrade.

[worktolive]

Very good afternoon folks, I am looking for opinions whether RYR is an option compared to my present Airline.

In short, I am a FO flying wide body/long haul based in the Middle East. Salary is good, permanent contract but I am starting to get a little tired of the Middle East and I am thinking about going working in Europe.

I even made a list of the pros and cons and ironically since I have no hours on the 737 I would join RYR as a cadet which means that I'll have to self fund my type on the 73 and also I will probably end up with a contractor.:*

I know, probably the only bright spot about RYR is that I could live with my family (If I get the base I ask :ouch:), which is no small achievement.

I would appreciate any comments/suggestions that will help make up my mind.. I have long thought the same thing.

[RAT 5]

Depends what a/c you're on now, how flexible your family is, and what the worldwide contract market is like for your type. You might find some very lucrative contracts in nice places, or very sympathetic commuting contracts.

[Luibar]

The base captain is the one who calls the pilots on their days off to ask them why they didn't do a second RVSM check on a flight three weeks previous, the base supervisor is the one who gives disciplinary meetings to cabin crew for not selling enough Boxerchips.

You forgot the part where the base captain chases FOs around the crew room prodding them with a stick until they upgrade.

Maybe its why the cabin crew members liked him. :p

[Luibar]

@ worktolive,

You will need for sure to fund your B737 TR but I do not believe you will be considered as a cadet. As for the contract, try asking for a direct contract with Ryanair. Have you contacted them already?

[worktolive]

Depends what a/c you're on now, how flexible your family is, and what the worldwide contract market is like for your type. You might find some very lucrative contracts in nice places, or very sympathetic commuting contracts.

757/767...yeah it's more medium haul than long.

You will need for sure to fund your B737 TR but I do not believe you will be considered as a cadet. As for the contract, try asking for a direct contract with Ryanair. Have you contacted them already?

That's a good place to start if they won't consider me as a cadet. Will they be willing/able to offer me a RYR contract? CAE on behalf of RYR contacted me (again) a year ago or so. I had a long phone conversation with a lady, I have explained her my situation and eventually we both agreed that I will get back to her when I'll be 100% motivated to join them. I understand that CAE has an agreement with Storm, not sure whether they can offer me a RYR contract. I should probably send an email and ask a few questions.

[recall_checked]

worktolive,

I wouldn't expect a proper contract to be honest. But then stranger things have happened.

When I read your first post you didn't strike me as someone really desperate to be in Europe (maybe I'm wrong?). If it was me I would not join RYR unless my family or I was unhappy.

I know there are horror stories in the middle east, but don't fall into the trap of the grass being greener. If you are tired of the ME, I promise you'll get tired of being based in a country you don't want to, commuting on your days off. Depending on where you live an where you're based, commuting can be anywhere between 4 - 14 hours and 1-4 flights to get home, and then do it again 2 days later. Consistently high load factors make it all the more difficult.

Get your command if you're close to it. Or get a Ryanair command with the intention of leaving and doing back to the ME/Asia as a DEC somewhere. Ryanair is a great place to start your career, but I don't see it as a progressive career move. Personal opinion, of course.

[leced4u]

Hi gents, I have been offered a Cpt position at Bergamo base with a direct Ryanair contract, I am trying to estimate my final net monthly paycheck on a 72193 basic and 48,16/hr...both gross.
Anyone based in bergamo or that would know the calculation to sort this out ?
And is the Basic negotiable ?

[dirk85]

Friends based there were telling me around 7.000 net a month, on average.

Non negotiable.

[Mister]

When did you do your assessment mate?.

Its the base negotiable for DECs or you gotta take the one they offer you on first instance?.

Thank you.

[leced4u]

I did last Tuesday in Stansted, very relax.
Base is negotiable, especially if you already have a job like me.
You have to give 3 choices but you discuss that with them and make your point,
I never flew NG before but rented a Sim 2 hrs for preparation.
I would leave something better paid for joining RYANAIR.

[leced4u]

Friends based there were telling me around 7.000 net a month, on average.

Non negotiable.

Where do those figures come from?
Is there a payscale?

[dirk85]

It's a ballpark figure given to me by friends based there on the italian ryanair contract.

[Usaf]

Only if you fly a lot of domestic you reach 7k otherwise 6k average in the year.

[samca]

Average under RYR contract is 6.000 Eur per month you pay taxes in Ireland and Italy as well, around 40% from your gross salary.
Did they offer you Mcginley during your interview??
Cheers

[Luibar]

Only if you fly a lot of domestic you reach 7k otherwise 6k average in the year.


Are the domestic sectors taxed directly accordiing to Italy tax system or is it taxed according to Irish tax system and then ajusted at the year end with the declaration from the Irish authorities?

[zerograv]

You will need for sure to fund your B737 TR but I do not believe you will be considered as a cadet.

Similar situation as "worktolive"

Anyone knows if it's possible to do a ZFTT rating, and much that would cost? Also, it would have to be done via CAE, correct?

[Mister]

Anybody around who has been given base and start date for April as DEC?

Thanks and regards guys.

[SanTelmo]

Hello Guys, I need some help too...
Recently, I have got a pass as DEC in RYR. They offered several base options and among these I am finally thinking in OPO. Anyone from OPO base that could give me an advice about how is the the percentage split concerning social security, tax in Ireland and tax in Portugal from the gross salary? I found some information about certain amount of money considered as per diem non taxable...to summarize, if somebody could talk in first person with generic details would be very much appreciated. Thanks!

[KayPam]

Hello

Could anyone come up with a simple unique figure of how much a Ryanair cadet pilot would make, on average ?
And the same guy but with 1500-2500 hours on the b737 ? (after the first one or two pay gaps)

I was never able to get a clear figure, maybe because of the diversity of the contracts offered ?

Thanks

[Vokes55]

Because there is no clear figure - it depends on how 'efficient' you want to be with your expenses.

However, as they are desperately short of pilots and the pay is by the hour, you'll certainly earn well doing your 900 hours in 10 months - although the contract has supposedly got worse since I jumped.

Don't focus on how much you'll earn, focus on how quickly you can get enough 737 hours to move to a real employer.

[samca]

Also the command time it depends of your base captain and base TRE, if they don't like your eyes color you will stay waiting until they want. It doesn't matter if you comes with previous experience, if in your last command assestment associated with your last LPC or OPC you are so lucky of having certains old TRE's in Stansted Simulator Training Center you will have to wait at least 1 year more at least for your upgrade...
Some bases the trainers are good profesional people in other could be a really bad dream. I signed with the company looking to my upgradre command in a short time, that was a year and a half ago. Last OPC was PASSED but the old wolf TRE from Stansted make me a Command Assestment and he didn't like. So now I have to wait another year (2sims more) for being recommended, and of course 0 help or motivation from my base captain or TRE.
When I think I declined an employment letter signed with QATAR on last January month I feel like a stupid.

[doniedarko]

Hey Samca

.....did you ever consider that maybe the 'old wolf' was correct....:E:

[samca]

Yes I tried several times BUT may be I'm not so smart to understand why some people in this company hate the pilots from OCC and loves their cadets. I'm not the only one coming from a different company and waiting for the command. Nobody of my OCC course is doing the Command Course. 1 year and a half and waiting... when I see in this forum people telling that in 6 months to 1 year you go straight to the Command Upgrade Course I just say I know nobody in that situation.
Maybe to much old Wolves in Stansted thinking that our previous experience is rabbish but their cadets are like golden... really funny

[Lepo]

As far as I know Ryanair is only hiring cadets and DEC right now.

Any perspectives for DEFO in 2017?

[samca]

They are hiring DEFO since more than 2 years ago and still doing.

[kumbaya]

Is there really a difference in how they treat DEFO vs cadets ?
I am surprised because I was under the impression that they need experienced co-pilots / captain candidates.
Would really appreciate more information on this.

[samca]

For DEFO the answer is YES, and yes of course they need you but be aware that your Upgrade can be really hard. Also it depends of the base you are, there are very good professionals that try to help you and motivate you for the CU. BUT I found some TREs in Stansted and some BC that is just the opposite. So if you are so lucky that you have a nice BC and TRE in your base is easier if not you are ....
Also when you try to analize the situation or make some questions in order to improve your weaks areas, you gonna receive ambiguous answers. So you don't know how, when and why...
A part of that the problem that I'm worried it is that getting a base in your country once you have passed the interview before to join the CU course is being really harder, as DEFO no problem for that but once you go through the CU interview be prepare for going outside. Now, they are offering mainly bases in Eastern Europe, south of Italy, Greece or Morocco. And the worse part is that you have to sign a bond for 2 years for your training. So my motivation is falling down very fast

[doniedarko]

Knew lots of DEFO over the years and with the very odd exception nobody was upgraded in their first year. The usual time frame was 18+ months. I always felt it took at least that long to learn the 'Ryanair' way. Not SOPs or checks just an attitude.An attitude which is beaten into the ' golden' cadets from day1....IMHO

[Vokes55]

An attitude of pulling your pants down and bending over, which most people from other companies cannot understand.

[kumbaya]

Thanks for the info, seems that its time to think again.

[samca]

Problem is that they consider you like a young cadet. You feel pressure for your command since the first day you go to the OCC sim BUT in the other hand it doesn't matter how you fly the maneouvers and approaches, how well can you fly an eng out profile. They look for the "excellence" in some stupid things that are completely out of my understanding. So now I'm in a point which I don't know honestly what this people is looking from me, becomes some comments are so ambiguous that you don't know what to do for improving your flying skills.

[Birdstrike737]

Tomuchwork: I was based in Rome for 8 years, flying for Ryanair. I know you don't want to start a Ryanair-bashing session here, but it's pretty tough to talk about Ryanair without airing a bit of disgust. The reason you were not quoted any "hard figures" is simple: Ryanair does everything as underhandedly as possible, and then pops out with "Surprise! You're Screwed!" After it's too late. Working for Ryanair, you feel like you are working for a scam artist. It works best for those who really need their first flying job. Every contractual thing they offer you has a loophole in it for them and a "gotcha" for you. That said, your in-pocket captain pay at month's end, on Irish "Ryanair" employee contract (not signed onto one of their fake agencies) will be between €4000 and €6000 a month unless you cheat on your taxes, in which case it will be higher. The Ryanair-contract pilots who have been there a long time make more than that, but you won't get their contract. Ryanair has over 3,000 pilots and probably 1,000 different contracts to cover them. Rarely do two pilots fly together who are on the same kind of contract. In bocca al lupo!

[Aleboni]

Is there someone based in Vilnius with Ryanair contract?

[Mount Shasta]

SanTelmo, KayPam, Mister, leced4u, Aleboni
Do not hesitate to contact Ryanair. They can answer all your questions. It's best to get it first hand.

[Vokes55]

They can answer all your questions, but they probably won't.

[FlyHigher]

I have a couple of questions regarding annual leave at Ryanair that I appreciate your inputs:

1. Can you request a specific month off or is it at description of the company (of course it should be in the winter)?

2. Can you bid for your annual leave days and, if so, when do you know if it was granted ?

Happy landings :ok:

[Autobrake_Max]

I have a couple of questions regarding annual leave at Ryanair that I appreciate your inputs:

1. Can you request a specific month off or is it at description of the company (of course it should be in the winter)?

2. Can you bid for your annual leave days and, if so, when do you know if it was granted ?

Happy landings :ok:

RYR offer you three month options for your annual leave.
In regards to ad hoc leave, this is achieved through the online leave system through the crew dock portal.

All good in theory?

In practice, I was there for three years. Never had one of my choices for a month off approved.
I requested 23 separate ad hoc days during my time there. Only 3 days were approved!

Personally for me the leave system is a joke. Don't get me started with having a mandatory month off!! Following one month off I was told that I would have another month off two months later. You do not get paid on your months off as a contractor.

Hope this helps

[zerotohero]

Re The leave system

Is it still a month off and 10 days A/L to book when you like but with a poor system where you have to book them basically a year in advance and never likely to get summer leave.

Do Ryanair employés get the same as contractors now or do they get more A/L days.

Also are there any Floating 5/5 deals available for Captains still? If so which agency runs that.

Any improvement on the limited company stuff and forced accountants?

[Autobrake_Max]

Yep. That's the one! For my own stag party I booked 4 months in advance. Still no reply for 2 days leave a week before despite numerous queries. In the end, I told crew control I'd be taking it anyway as they had plenty of notice without the courtesy of a reply.

Guys on the RYR contract receive the same leave as the contractors.

Floaters are still available. I've seen them advertised as 'mobile' Captains. Storm McGinley are the only agency providing crews now, I believe.

Absolutely none in answer to your last question. I was informed that if I chose my own accountant, which is not illegal, they would not give me any work. You are forced to choose one of 3 accountants based in Ireland. Fingers crossed at some stage the authorities will knuckle down on them. Ex-Collegues of mine in Germany have been raided by customs officials due to the tax agreement with RYR and Ireland and RYR declare that the way crews handle their finances is nothing to do with them. It is laughable!

[RAT 5]

Fingers crossed at some stage the authorities will knuckle down on them.

Why should they unless someone switches their light on? There was a thread on another topic, but what it boiled down to is that the management will not do anything about a subject, e.g. lousy rostering, if no-one writes a report outlining what is at fault. With out complaints there is no problem. The authorities work the same way. Their inbox is overflowing. They do not look for work.

[FlyHigher]

Thanks for your inputs.
Regarding the 10 days annual leave, can you use 5 days between the days off ?

[Autobrake_Max]

Very true, RAT 5. Couldn't agree more. The fear culture prevents this.

RYR could be one of the best companies to work for if they would just give their crews a proper contract and fix the leave system. Just a few changes would reduce the poisonous atmosphere which is undoubtedly present. But for that, I believe, some of the upper echelons of management would have to disappear.

[eduelp]

100% agree with all you wrote

[KayPam]

Tomuchwork: I was based in Rome for 8 years, flying for Ryanair. I know you don't want to start a Ryanair-bashing session here, but it's pretty tough to talk about Ryanair without airing a bit of disgust. The reason you were not quoted any "hard figures" is simple: Ryanair does everything as underhandedly as possible, and then pops out with "Surprise! You're Screwed!" After it's too late. Working for Ryanair, you feel like you are working for a scam artist. It works best for those who really need their first flying job. Every contractual thing they offer you has a loophole in it for them and a "gotcha" for you. That said, your in-pocket captain pay at month's end, on Irish "Ryanair" employee contract (not signed onto one of their fake agencies) will be between €4000 and €6000 a month unless you cheat on your taxes, in which case it will be higher. The Ryanair-contract pilots who have been there a long time make more than that, but you won't get their contract. Ryanair has over 3,000 pilots and probably 1,000 different contracts to cover them. Rarely do two pilots fly together who are on the same kind of contract. In bocca al lupo!
If an experienced employee captain makes 4 to 6k, how much does a young contractor F/O (or S/O if applicable) makes ?
1 to 2 k ? :eek:

[samca]

FO RYR contract you make 3500 to 4000 Euros net flying around 80 hours.
Captain on Mcginley or RYR contract makes around 5500 Euros for 60 hours more or less. IF you pay the taxes correctly (40% of your gross salary) if you start to play with the taxes of course you can make 7 or even 8k BUT you are not paying the correct amount of taxes and you are living with the fear that probably one day someone is going to audit and knock your door.
That's the ... reality. Doing everything legal a Captain makes 1000 Euros more than you.

[Luibar]

The average take home pay for sure depends on the tax situation of the country you are resident and your personal situation.

For example, a married pilot with family on a Ryanair contract (Irish based contract) living in another European country where he/she is resident and where the spouse is working, how does irish authorities consider this pilot for income tax purposes, married single income or married both spouses with income?

I was wondering how Ryanair cope with withholdig income tax on certain countries regarding local laws about domestic flights. Do they divide all the gross income by the block hours flown and then apply the tax, or they use another complex formula that you'll never be able to understand?

Out of curiosity, my current lot will start paying for the actual block hours flown. They will rely on the voyage report filled by the flight crew. How does that work at Ryanair?

[KayPam]

FO RYR contract you make 3500 to 4000 Euros net flying around 80 hours.
Captain on Mcginley or RYR contract makes around 5500 Euros for 60 hours more or less. IF you pay the taxes correctly (40% of your gross salary) if you start to play with the taxes of course you can make 7 or even 8k BUT you are not paying the correct amount of taxes and you are living with the fear that probably one day someone is going to audit and knock your door.
That's the f... reality. Doing everything legal a Captain makes 1000 Euros more than you.
Not if you were an FO on a Mcginley or brookfield contract ? What then ?

[samca]

If you are FO, even a Captain forgive Brookfield. You gonna work with Mcginley. As far as I know there is 3 Accountable Managers available to be with you as "co-owner" of your "company". It depend of your luck but seems to be that some of them are more permissive than others.

I prefer to work under RYR contract and sleep well every night and pay the expenses for my situation, which are around 24% of your gross salary by table. The FO´s that I know under Mcginley are doing much money every month than me but I don´t know how they declare and how much they declare but for sure that they earn considerably more than me.

[FlyHigher]

How many hours should one expect to fly on average in the summer and winter ?

[PapaHotel85]

6-7k a month??? That was the past. All new captains get max 5500€ in a good month. On a Ryr contract.
Brookfield is not longer available. In germany the brk guys were only offered new bluesky contract with which they get 4500€ net based on 800 hours a year.
But at the moment we only fly 50h a month max. For dec - march.
A FO gets average 2100 euro net a month with the new bluesky contract. Good luck for new joiners.
And 3500-4000 for a FO? That's maybe medieval Ryanair contract for guys they are already >5 years in the company.
It's absolutely not true.
FO in Germany on permanent contract makes max 3500 with 100 hours a month.
Mc ginley guys only with cheating and not paying taxes you make 3500-4000k a month.
But at the moment you have to have time as a cadet. There is a long quee for training because also a lot of trainers are leaving.
Everyone is feed up with this company.
The only good thing is the roster.

[Luibar]

All new captains get max 5500€ in a good month. On a Ryr contract.

Well, certainly not the best paid job, but is it after pension contributions or not ?

But at the moment we only fly 50h a month max. For dec - march.

I tought Ryanair was short of pilots, at least according to PPJN. How much do you fly from march to december ?

[PapaHotel85]

Well pension pay? There is a very small amount that Ryanair pays to pension contributions. I don't know exactly how much but it's around 5000€ a year.
You have to have a private plan to cover your pension. And if you are contractor as 80% of the fo then it's up to you.

There is no lack of pilots. All over the network the pilots fly only 45-50 h a month in the winter..

And we fly 700-800hours a year. This year it's more like 700hours for me.
Don't believe ppjn...

Everyone can write there something.

[skyflyer737]

PapaHotel85's figures are only partially correct. In Italy, RYR contract Captains (incl. new joiners) take home in excess of €7000 after tax per month.

Outside Italy, the average figure is more like €5500-€6000 or if you contribute to the pension €5300-€5700. In the UK, those figures are the same but put a £ sign in front of them.

In Spain and Portugal knock perhaps €200 off per month.

His Bluesky contract figures are also incorrect. In Germany, Capts on that contract can expect €5500 net for flying 900hrs a year and €5000 net for flying 890hrs a year. Expect to fly between 800 & 900 hrs a year as a Capt with 50-60 hrs a month in winter and 90-100hrs a month in summer. FOs can expect 700-850 hours per year.

[172_driver]

Belgium, expect around €5000 a month for a Captain (or so it was, can't believe it has increased). That tax rates are high there too.

[samca]

From my point of view it is not a matter of money, I could accept that figures BUT not doing marathon days of 4 legs and 12/13 even 14 hours Duty. Personally the 4 legs per day every single day kills me honestly.

[PapaHotel85]

Well 4500 or 5000€... makes not much difference...
overall the contracts are :mad:

[Luibar]

In Italy, RYR contract Captains (incl. new joiners) take home in excess of €7000 after tax per month

Outside Italy, the average figure is more like €5500-€6000

In Spain and Portugal knock perhaps €200 off per month.


Is that difference in take home pay related with encome tax on those countries or there is a huge discrepancy in basic pay among them?

[skyflyer737]

There are small differences in basic pay between countries / bases but the main reason for those differences is the differing levels of social tax in the country in which you are based. For Italian bases, tax levels are reduced depending on how much domestic flying you do, as these flights are taxed at a lower rate.

[Luibar]

I believe it would be better if Ryanair offered local contracts as, I suppose, Easyjet does. It seems to be quite difficult to understand how much in tax you pay every month.

[172_driver]

Why would you when you've got a former Secretary General of the DTTAS in the board. She is, after all, serving her country first... ;)

[Lokki]

Captains aside, could anyone tell us what new cadets make in a year? Say for the UK?

[samca]

Mcginley, again it depend on how much taxes you pay. But logical it is between 3000 and 4000 Euros flying 65 to 90 hours per month. Month off 0 Eur and if you fly less or nothing one month you get less of course...

[UAV689]

As a cadet basically nothing earned for first 6 months at Ryan during type rating, base training and when safety pilot. After safety pilot 20e an hr, after line training 50e an hr, after 500hrs 65.5e an hr, after 1500hrs 70.5e.

[Jwscud]

That is appalling. 5 years ago, those numbers were €35, €55.5, €70.5 and €78.5, with €88.5 from 2100h if in the command program.

They were rubbish then too.

[zerotohero]

Even worse 10 years ago when I joined it was €55 an hour to 500 including line training! €75 until 1500 hours then €85 an hour until command. Less the €4.50 sim deduction. As a floating F/O I got €100.50 an hour in my bank for 90 hours every month and I toddled off to MY accountant and added up all my deductions and gave it to HMRC to bill me. Simples.

Then came the LTD companies and I left.

[UAV689]

I already included the 4.50 sim deduction (so the 70e you mentioned above is the same as I quoted at 65.5)I don't know why people quote the block pay before the sim deduction as you never get it! Like saying I am paid 500e am her but I have to pay 450e per hr sim deduction!

[Vokes55]

The best part is that even when you're leaving and no longer require the sim training, you still lose the 4.50 per hour for sim training.

[directmisbi]

Why not just call the pay for what it is. Ryanair could have just handed out a figure, and that would be it, but they cleverly put a massive spin to it and quoted a figure before sim deduction. Like you "pay" for your own sim. Ridiculous..

[RAT 5]

To those on here who trumpet the ever growing profits of RYR, in the apparent belief that it indicates all things great and good, they should reflect on what has happened to the T's & C's at the same time.
I imagine that school physics experiment of 2 silver balls hanging on a string pendulum in a frame. You deflect 2 similar balls outwards and them release. They meet in the middle with balanced energy and stop in equilibrium.
Now you enlarge one ball and repeat. What happens is the smaller, more vulnerable ball, is shunted back from where it came with derision and contempt to have even considered entering the fray. David & Goliath it ain't.
One might argue that the profits are the bigger ball and the T's & C's have been crushed under that boot.

[samca]

Soon or later they would have to change their T & C if they want to contract decent and enough pilots for their operation. It is a fact and nothing can change that. It is very simple. Nowadays the demand of qualified pilot is growing exponentially. There is no companies bancarupt even every single company is offering a job, times change, this a new cycle a new era...

[Luibar]

Soon or later they would have to change their T & C if they want to contract decent and enough pilots for their operation. It is a fact and nothing can change that.

Have they done that in the past? Apparently there are skippers taking home 6k to 7k or even more and F/O between 3,5k and 4,5k which is average in Europe nowadays. From what I have been reading, in my opinion, I think they should revise the benefits package and introduce local contracts.

[samca]

Yes but need to catch people outside Europe and the only way is putting much money on the table

[7574ever]

For now their trick is to offer them the base they want and sending in-house pilots away from home. It seems to be working to attract pilots from other companies, it always works perfectly for pushing in-house pilots out the door!

[samca]

It is not enough, it was enough for some people last years but not now and they know.

[Luibar]

7574ever, yes, but if they keep doing that sooner than later they will be facing a another issue which is people entering from one door and leaving through another. Indeed they need to do something to atract suitable candidates.

Samca, do you really believe they will open its fat wallet when they don't even give a profit share bonus?

[7574ever]

Yeah, that's what I thought would happen but so far they are managing, don't ask me how. I have been hearing the same rumor about next summer being the one when the :mad: will hit the fan (regarding crew numbers) for years and it never happened so far.

As to increasing T&C's, personally I doubt there will be any significant change for the time being (upwards anyway). As I said, basing seems to be working for now. At least in the country where I'm based!

[I-PIERLU]

In my base they are calling from month off and days off Capts and FOs very often to fly. LTCs, CPTs and even FOs are leaving (10% approx in 6 months, overall). I joined just one year ago from another airline, and I'm also asking myself how are they managing to do it... A lot of new planes delivered every months... T&C will be only changed if they are forced to do it if you don't agree with them just leave, they say...

[samca]

In my base also calling people on vacation and days off for flying. Exactly the same thinking like you

[samca]

7574ever, yes, but if they keep doing that sooner than later they will be facing a another issue which is people entering from one door and leaving through another. Indeed they need to do something to atract suitable candidates.

Samca, do you really believe they will open its fat wallet when they don't even give a profit share bonus?

They have to my friend, if not they will continue earning money of course but less than expected, we are in a point that the people that wants to work for this conditions in Europe are here, there is no more people that wants to accept this T & C. It is finished, no more companies banckrupt for the coming years so. The only way to fishing is ? Money?

[FWIflyer]

And every meeting starts with "we have a lot of money but we are not here to talk about salaries"

[Luibar]

Indeed, they should adjust the package on offer. Apparently FR is short of pilots although they are looking for DEC offering 120k gross provided if you fly an whatever amount of hours, and no benefits at all. Soon the so advertised best roster in aviation will not be enough.

[I-PIERLU]

The roster and its stability is very good.
But they are proposing it as a benefit when actually it's something "free" for them, we are anyway flying 900h a year...They are trying to make it only with cadets, a good gamble...!

[RAT 5]

Why doesn't someone with all the data publish the T's & C's of the major players in UK? To those who think 120k is a good deal, with no benefits, will be astonished at what is available with some attractive benefits included. And that is also with acceptable more sympathetic rosters.
In my day, what I liked about sympathetic rostering, & rosterers, was my ability to request single or double days off. It was nearly always allowed and built into my roster. Thee was no fixed pattern. Guys claim that a fixed regular roster allows forwards planning. It also, always, guarantees disappointment if your dice falls on the wrong square. I could plan forward with something so simple and human as a request. If I had to then I took a few days leave. We hear even that is not allowed in some of these fixed roster airlines. Guys having to go sick to get married is sickening.
I suspect many of the guys who trumpet the benefit of fixed rosters have not experienced anything else. I agree they would be better than a forever changing roster; no doubt. I once worked for an airline where the daily changes reached rebellion proportions; the worse case being where a month's planned roster did not achieve a single duty as planned. The result was an agreement that any changes greater than 3 hours start time had to be voluntary, including any knock-on effect. Any changes in planned days off the same. The head rosterer was seen kicking the cat, often, but it was that or have no captains.

I still don't see why guys, who want fixed rostering, don't campaign for 4/4 instead of 5/3. With efficient rostering productivity would not suffer, but fatigue would reduce. Flexibility might suffer, but a good payment for days off working might help, voluntary only and only the first of the day off block. Some more imagination on both sides; but difficult if there is no bargaining forum.

[samca]

The roster and its stability is very good.
But they are proposing it as a benefit when actually it's something "free" for them, we are anyway flying 900h a year...They are trying to make it only with cadets, a good gamble...!
The Roster is an advantage but it depends, sometimes the 5 days working are really hard and long with 4 sectors and 12/13 hours Duty that makes you arrive home like a zombie.

[CMDGreen]

They try to attract experienced pilots, both CPTs and FOs because they are short of crew. But how?

By making you pay for your own license conversion(600EUR), ID card(200 EUR), own hotel expenses during training, own transportation, uniform.
Then they offer experienced FO's (with 3-4000 hours) a basic pay of 1100 Euros a month after tax?
Ridiculous.

I don't know when they will realize that in order to find pilots from other airlines these conditions need to be improved.

[45989]

There will always be a willing supply of fools/tools out there prostituting themselves .........

[samca]

I don't think so... at least not now

[KeithBollis]

Couple of questions re joining as DEC (I work for a worse company) -

What are the chances of an EMA base (at joining or later)?

For the British pilot commuters - can you get parking at EMA/STD whilst you're working at your European base?

[BluSdUp]

RAT 5
I think all RYR bases now have 5 on, 4 off, alternating earlys and lates.
With the possible exception of some smaler bases.

By the way; EU just voted to stop the false contracting and a lot of other stuff to level the playing field.
A bit late if You ask me, but hey, good new anyway.
Maybe we have a winner of the race to the bottom.?

[skyflyer737]

Hi Keith - unlikely you'd get EMA straight away, or anything in the UK for that matter. You stand a chance after a year although it's a bit of a lottery. STN after a year would be more likely.

Yes, you could park at EMA or STN but at STN at least you need an STN ID and can then get car parking. Not sure of the process for EMA but would suspect it's the same. As with most things in Ryanair though, you'd have to pay.

[RAT 5]

EU just voted to stop the false contracting and a lot of other stuff to level the playing field.

Pray tell more. I know the UK government is not keen on companies having a significant numbers on zero hour contracts, but have yet to table a bill to address it. If the EU are wanting to stop it, what measures are they going to take to enforce it, and when?

[BluSdUp]

Was voted on in the EU parliament in Strasbourgh last week.
I just picked it up at Danish Checkin.dk and Googled it just now.
As to how and when, I have no idea.
But I retire in ca 12 years so add a day and we are close!!

On the bright side: Did hear that some LOCOs are heading for crewing problems
this spring and summer.
Some TREs have stopped TRE-ing.( or TRE-ing OTHER places)
Lovely.

[SextanteUK]

hey guys!, i was trying to find information about RYR bases and how big they are, but can't find any useful information about Edinburgh, which is the one I'm interested in.
how big is it? and how hard is to get EDI? both as a F/O and as a captain.

Thanks for your help :)

[Vokes55]

As an FO you could, in theory, get any base you like as they're desperately short everywhere. But this is Ryanair, they take pleasure in putting people, especially low hour cadets who won't complain, as far away from where they want to be as possible.

So enjoy Trapani, it's actually quite nice down there.

[X-BleedOpen]

They are desperate but they are not hiring NTR SFOs. I have 7000h jet time, looking at options to go back to Europe and they wouldn't take me for now... or this is what they said.

[BluSdUp]

The onely shure way to know the nr of aircraft at a base is as follows.
Go to the web page and pick a day to travel out and a return day , Monday and Friday works. then see how many aircraft leaves early and arrives late.
This is done in less then an hr.
Remember, some bases dobbel in the 8 month summer season.
This , I find, is the only shure way to know.
They may pop in an extra aircraft in July August, but it is compensated by Floaters.
Good luck

[Mister]

Any idea about what bases are they offering at the moment to Non rated DECs?.

Thank you.

[Mister]

Hello again,

Does anybody have any idea of what the net salary for DEC non rated is in Porto, Lanzarote and Bergamo and how is the atmosphere in this bases?

Thank you very much.

[samca]

What type of contract are you speaking about? Ryanair contract or Mcginley.

Ryanair around 6000 Euros net, environment no idea.

[Mister]

Thanks a lot for your answer. I am asking about Ryanair contract.

Good info, I don't know why I thought net was significantly different depending on the country.

Thanks again.

[skyflyer737]

The bases on offer are negotiable and the more popular ones such as those you mention would be difficult to get straight away. You can expect around €5500 average net per month except in Italy where you can expect 800-1000 extra, so somewhere around €6500 or even more depending how many Italian domestic sectors you do.

However, my understanding is for non-rated DECs you don't pay for the type rating up front but pay it monthly out of your salary for 5 years. Total cost is approximately €20,000 so I guess a deduction of around €300-400 can be expected.

[limahotel]

I applied, was immediately rejected. Don't know why, since I heard they take back ex-RYR FOs.

[skyflyer737]

I've met 3 ex FR pilots who have recently rejoined having left over the last few years. All Capts though, so not sure about FOs.

Edited to add although I've met 3 recently there are plenty more than that coming back in total.

[LessPepper]

FOs have returned too, including from Big Airlines.

[Bombs Away]

Are they taking turboprop guys?

[maximus610]

Yes, but only as ntr cadets...

[Bombs Away]

So basically through the standard cae application system or a different channel?

[4000mrwyfordash8]

I' ve got the DEC assessment day in STN coming up.
Is there somebody who' s already done it?

And would please be so kind and share some information?

Thank you, guys!

[RingsOfThunder]

Couple of questions re joining as DEC (I work for a worse company) -

What are the chances of an EMA base (at joining or later)?

For the British pilot commuters - can you get parking at EMA/STD whilst you're working at your European base?


EMA is pretty much full, as far as the noises on the line go, you can park there whilst on tour in europe, you'd be expected to use normal parking like any other pax, some chance it and park in laces they shouldn't, very expensive if/when you get caught

[Luibar]

According to macginley advertisement it seems that Ryanair is offering improved terms... Any clue?

[FerrisBueller]

FO's have been accepted back. I know one who rejoined from the red noses about this time last year, and I believe there were others too.

[Josvhkiekenbos]

Hello all, I am new here altough I have been reading this forum for a while.
I have been flying a bizzjet for the last 17 years. Now I am looking for a more stable job(airline).
I do meet all the non typerated DEC requirements except that the airplane I have been flying weighs 22000kgs. And not 30000kgs as in the advertised requirements.Does anybody know if FR will ever lower the dec requirements or will consider me for non type dec.
I applied for the non typerated captain position through mc ginley but was was told I do not meet the 30000kgs requirement.
Since they are short on pilots I kind of hope they do.
Anybody an idea about this?
Thank you.

[Luibar]

Try applying direct with Ryanair instead of the broker.

[VJW]

Or go as an FO and do an upgrade in a year or so.

[Josvhkiekenbos]

Thanks for the replies.
I tried to apply with Ryanair direct. Same response as broker.
I would not mind starting as FO but that would be to much of a difference in salary compared to my current job(salary).
Anyway, I will keep a lookout for changes in requirements .