Wheel landings and groundloops

[Pilot DAR]

I am occasionally "challenged" for the fact that most every landing I fly in a taildragger will be a wheel landing, rather than three point - where the aircraft arrangement makes that comfortable. After the wheel landing, I'll lift the tail off a little more, and hold it up as long as control effectiveness allows.

Among that reasons I do this, is my desire for a better view forward, which optimizes keeping it straight, and the fact that with the tail well up, the aircraft C of G is held a little more forward, so closer to the mainwheels. The closer the C of G is to the mainwheels, the lesser the tenancy to groundloop - perhaps not much, but every bit helps....

My experience has been that as long as the elevator is effective in holding the tail up, the rudder will be effective in keeping it straight. Indeed, the rudder will probably be more effective than tailwheel steering, as the tailwheel usually has springs, which will absorb some of the steering input initially.

So, I like wheel landings....

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Each to his own. When I wheel it on it's tail high the whole time, until there's insufficient forward stick effectiveness to hold it up. OK, purists will say 'land' the tailwheel before that point, but I like my method!

3-pointers are stick hard back on touchdown and kept there until I shut down, unless there's a strong tailwind during the taxi from the runway.

[Capot]

Pah! Wheelies are an indulgence when there's enough runway for them, for those who cannot hold the main and tail wheels 6 inches above the ground, ie in the precise landing attitude, until the aircraft stalls on to all 3 wheels at once on the precise spot aimed at, with a lovely squashy feeling that tells you you've done a good one. Provided you've chopped the power properly, have the stick right back, use aileron to counter a X-wind component, and don't over correct with the rudder to keep straight, there will be no ground loop.

Mind you, my first airline had DC3s, inter alia, and I don't remember seeing many 3-point landings by their pilots, probably for very good reasons. And when I asked my Dad if he did them in his Lanc, he simply said "Why would I want to do that?".

[flybymike]

I recall watching a tv programme in which a current BBMF Lanc pilot was remarking to a World War Two veteran Lanc pilot that he found it almost impossible to do a satisfactory three point landing in a Lanc, and asking the vet what the secret was to a successful three point landing.

The WW2 pilot replied ;

"No one ever did a three Pointer in a Lanc unless they were an absolute expert,"

And then adding as an afterthought,

"And most of the absolute experts got it wrong anyway...."

[J1N]

I have noticed that Spitfires are generally 3-pointed: any idea why?

[Capot]

My guess is that b****y great propeller in front; very close to the ground in a wheelie. You would want to slow down very, very gently. Or maybe you would have to keep up an airspeed for a wheelie that takes you into the far hedge, what with slowing down carefully as well. Or maybe Spitfire pilots are/were just so good at it they do 3-pointers out of pride in doing something properly.

I dunno, is what it boils down to.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Large tailwheelers always seem to be wheeled on, whereas singles are 3-pointed. Maybe it's due to the less effective roll control at low speed on the bigger ones so they keep the speed up and wheel it on?

I had heard that the one aeroplane one should never try to 3-point is the Rapide, as it reaches stalling angle before it reaches 3-point attitude, and will drop a tapered wing at the stall.

[rsuggitt]

"I have noticed that Spitfires are generally 3-pointed: any idea why?"

It's for prop ground clearance. Same reason they dont raise the tail on takeoff.

[9 lives]

When I was trained on the turbine DC-3, a part of the briefing was "we don't three point DC-3's". There was not much discussion as to why, I just followed the instruction provided.

My experience on a number of taildraggers has nearly always been that I executed smoother landings on the mains rather than three point. Yes, they used more runway, but I'm happy to reserve three point technique for the short or rough runways I would very occasionally fly into. I find that the aircraft is simply more controllable rolling out on its mains, while the tail settles on later. Perhaps that's perceived because of the better view forward, and maybe the attitude plays a part in that too...

[Capn Bug Smasher]

It says in the Army Pilot Training Manual for the C-47 not to three point it; rather, to make transport landings ("wheelers") with the tail erect or in a tail-low attitude. Same with the DC-2 incidentally.

IIRC it says it's hard to judge the flare in such a big aircraft and the landing gear damages easily if you stall in too high.

EDIT: Here we go. Got it slightly wrong. Regarding the C-47:

"You can make a 3-point landing in a C-47 airplane, but this type of landing is not advisable. Reason: Weight of the airplane causes undue strain if you happen to drop in. Normally, make a tail-low landing."

Regarding the DC-2 (this is from the Douglas Operations Manual):

"A normal approach and landing should be made under partial power reducing power as you come over the fence. Landing should be made on main gear, dropping the tail as the rolling speed decreases. By making a wheel landing of this type, better control of the airplane, and a smoother landing will be accomplished."

[Piltdown Man]

As long as you can assure the ground is smooth, the landing distance is sufficient and the prop won't hit the ground that's fine. But you are not doing yourself any favours. Also you might as well get a tricycle undercarriage because you are not getting the benefit of flying a tail-dragger.

PM

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Interesting ideas here.

I also prefer wheel landings for many reasons.

As to the DC3 it can be three pointed if you so desire, however it does require good height judgement in the hold off.

The three point landing or close to it is useful when operating on wheel skis, we normally selected half wheel out of the ski bottoms when using this technique if the surface was hard or could be hard snow/ice.

Like every other type of airplane handling skills your experience level will dictate the type of landing you decide on for a given landing.

By the way the B18 can be difficult to three point.

And the Turbo Goose down right frightening to three point.

And the Pitts S2B is difficult to wheel land.

As to groundlooping a tail wheel airplane I have to confess I never got to experience that realm of landing or take off.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

As to groundlooping a tail wheel airplane I have to confess I never got to experience that realm of landing or take off.

Me neither, in well over 30 years of tailwheel flying. Closest I came was when I'd sold my Yak52 share and moved back to my beloved Chipmunk, first landing in it in over 3 years.

I'd got lazy feet! I vacated the grass runway to the left at a fair lick, and felt the tail begin to step out determinedly to the right, precursor to a groundloop to the left. Full right rudder to correct didn't do it, so brake was applied (right brake of course, and as I already had full right rudder in I just had to hoink back the brake lever, hard, with my left hand to get full right brake). That did the trick. Just!

[Chuck Ellsworth]

It is amazing sometimes how close we come to letting the things get away from us by being just a tad late in seeing yaw start.

I found flying helicopters to be the best machine for learning how to see and control yaw....and pitch...and ...roll.

Bottom line is it is all about self dicipline and making sure you fly it instead of letting it fly you.

[India Four Two]

I vacated the grass runway to the left at a fair lick, and felt the tail begin to step out determinedly to the right, precursor to a groundloop to the left.

SSD,

I've done exactly the same thing on a couple of occasions over the years, when starting my turn to backtrack, at a little faster than normal speed, in the interests of a more efficient glider-towing operation.

After some fancy foot work and a shot of adrenaline, I was thinking "Er, let's not do THAT again!"

[9 lives]

I've had one very slow groundloop, and one nearly so. I flew jumpers for years in a 185. On my first day of flying it, I nearly lost it landing into the setting sun, to later find that it had no tailwheel steering whatever - broken tailwheel. It went where I wanted it to, but that had been luck, not control.

I very slowly groundlooped the Teal once. I had landed in quite a crosswind, and touched the tail wheel down (from a nice wheel landing) while the rudder was fully applied to keep 'er straight. The problem was that doing so unlocked the tailwheel, which then would no longer steer. When the rudder was no longer effective, the tailwheel steering was useless, so she gently went around. No harm done, but lesson learned, center the rudder for a second to lock the steering in for when you slow down!

For my modest tailwheel experience, I have found that looking over a lowered nose during the roll out enables a much greater awareness of yaw, for longer down the roll out. Awareness of yaw has to be good!

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Most of the taildraggers I've flown have had a spring connection to the rudder from the tail wheel. The Chippy has a free-castoring tail wheel, yet I haven't noticed it more prone to groundlooping than those others.

In fact, it is (for me) a much more preferable set up as it allows unrestricted turns when taxying. 360 degree circles around either mainwheel are fun! And swapping from rotations around the left wheel to rotations around the right at a precise point are a good excercise in anticipation of rudder input for taxying. And as my first checkout instructor back in 1979 said "if you can taxy this aeroplane competently, you can fly it".

Free castoring tail wheel also makes pushing the aeroplane into and out of the hangar a heck of a lot easier.

[Small Rodent Driver]

Totally agree with SSD concerning the Chippy castoring tailwheel. It works very well, although it shouldn't.

The Jungmann has a tailwheel which locks to the rudder once a small leaver is released. On one occasion when the rudder had failed to engage correctly, boy did I know about it. Thankfully the issue raised itself during the initial taxying phase of the flight. With a free castoring tailwheel the thing was uncontrollable.

Whilst I will happily wheel on a Chippy, Citabria, Cub etc etc, I have always shied away from wheeling the Jungmann on due to it's Mickey Mouse undercarriage design which works well enough in three point. Tail up I wouldn't be so sure with that clap hands action and soft springing.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Lets examine directional control on landing using the two most common methods of landing.

First the wheel landing.

Directional control is more precise when correcting for drift due to higher airspeed at touch down resulting in faster control response.

Directional control during the roll out is more precise because the main wheels are on the runway and you can prevent yaw before tail wheel contact because you still have higher airflow past the rudder than you would have in the three point touch down.

Conversely when three pointing the airplane it can be subject to sideways drift just prior to touch down due to wind strength/ cross wind change at that moment, just when your airflow past the flight controls has passed the really effective stage because you are almost stalled.

The center of gravity is behind the main wheels in a tail wheel airplane or it would not sit on the tailwheel when stopped.

If it is drifting sideways at touch down it will immediately yaw when the wheels contact the surface...therefore the three point landing exposes you to yaw if drift is peresent at wheel contact.

The wheel landing is better due to better control response just prior to and at wheel contact.

So where am I wrong in my thinking?

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

But the tendency to yaw doesn't matter if your feet are alive. And a nice 3-pointer is satisfying. Also, the landing is much slower (actually it's as slow as it could possibly be) so uses less runway than a wheeler. Important consideration for short UK farm strips!

[mary meagher]

On the other end of the rope, early solo in a K8 glider, (no radio)....at about 500 feet following the tug on climbout, the tug's tailwheel fell off in front of me! I couldn't think of anything useful, so simply continued on tow. Being minus a tailwheel had no adverse effect on landing the tug.

Brian Lecomber once gave a talk at a Booker Gliding Club Dinner, and told us that our flying really impressed him...every takeoff was formation flying, and every landing was an emergency! (technically, anyway).

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Why do the Alaska bush pilots use the wheel landing when competing in the short landing contests if the three point is a better method?

When landing really short in the DC3 or say the Beech 18 I always found wheeling it on at the slowest airspeed possible and on surface contact forward on the elevator control to pin it and put a load on the tires so I could use max braking was the preferred method to short land.

Maybe I was doing it wrong for all those thousands of hours flying the things?

[Pilot DAR]

[QUOTE The center of gravity is behind the main wheels in a tail wheel airplane or it would not sit on the tailwheel when stopped.[/QUOTE]

Ah, but Chuck, during a wheel landing, the C of G is not as far behind the mainwheels. The point of my original post. If you wheel it on, to some degree, the need to maintain directional control actively is slightly less demanding, because the repositioned C of G. The elevator still gives you good pitch control, so nosing over is not an increased risk, if you apply control.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Ah, but Chuck, during a wheel landing, the C of G is not as far behind the mainwheels. The point of my original post. If you wheel it on, to some degree, the need to maintain directional control actively is slightly less demanding, because the repositioned C of G. The elevator still gives you good pitch control, so nosing over is not an increased risk, if you apply control.

That is true.

However the point I was trying to make is if sideways drift is present at touch down the C of G is behind the main wheels which will be on the ground and yaw will be fed by the rearward C of G in direct proportion to the inertia of the sideways drift at touch down....

....the wheel landing gives better yaw control than the three point landing due to the higher airflow over the tail controls and the airflow is not partially disturbed by the airframe and flaps etc, the Beech 18 is an example of this difficulty in controlling yaw in the three point landing.

The bottom line is competent pilots will be equally skilled in either method and thus able to choose which method to use for a given situation.

When I do initial tail wheel training on light training aircraft they do not get to fly until they can comfortably control the airplane down the runway with the tail in the air...when they can S-Turn down the center line I then take them flying.

Note:

The above is only my personal way of teaching and is based on decades of flying tail wheel airplanes....and I have never turned loose a pilot that lost control of a tail wheel airplane to the best of my knowledge. :ok:

[Big Pistons Forever]

Maybe I was doing it wrong for all those thousands of hours flying the things?

It is always good to see someone who understands that no matter how long they have been flying keeping an open mind and being willing to admit there may be a better way; will always lead to improved skills.:ok:

[Thud105]

As with so much in aviation, it varies. It varies with the aircraft, and it varies with the conditions. Personally, I enjoy the satisfaction of a perfect three-pointer, especially on grass. However, on concrete with a crosswind, I think I'll wheel it on if you don't mind.

[Flyingmac]

I've ground-looped a tandem high wing twice when three-pointing it. Flying from the back seat, solo. I've never come close to a ground loop when wheeling it on.


With this aircraft, wheeling it on makes little difference to the ground roll, but a huge difference to the forward view.


Whatever works best for you.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Shirley in a 3-pointer you touch down (by definition) at a higher AoA (in fact only a little above stall AoA), so also by definition, slower than the lesser AoA of the wheel landing? Therefore less runway required in the roll-out to come to a stop.

[9 lives]

I don't let Shirley fly my taildragger.

I agree that three point landings will have a shorter ground roll. But, for my experience with my Teal, the tailwheel took such a pounding touching down at the higher three point speed, that holding it off as long as possible made all the difference - and I had better control in the mean time!

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I am not trying to be pedantic on this subject but once again if the three point method gives the shortest landing why do those Alaska bush pilots use the wheel landing to win the short landing contests in the Super Cubs?

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Dunno, Chuck. You tell me. Maybe they can't do 3-pointers! :)

[9 lives]

why do those Alaska bush pilots use the wheel landing to win the short landing contests in the Super Cubs?

As I was training tailwheel to a pilot just this very morning, I was thinking about this question...

I have never nosed over. I notice that a few of the "Alaska" pilots have, while trying to land very short. So, I won't copy that! I accept that greatly skilled pilots can balance the forces of brakes against up elevator, and maybe some propwash - but that exceeds my skills! I have lifted a tailwheel off a couple of times doing hard braking, and it made me nervous, so I don't do that anymore!

[Flyingmac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdHkpq7GMuc

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Of course it requires high skills to win the short landing completion in the Alaska Super Cub contests, and occasionally someone will exceed the limits and smack the prop on the ground or flip the airplane....

.....however the shortest landings are done with the wheel landing and load the tires and heavy braking...

.....so in my simple mind I have concluded that wheel landings do beat three point landings when spot..short landing.

Back to bigger tail wheel airplanes.

During my DC3 days a very large percentage of our flying was off airport operations on various surfaces such as snow/ice....sand beaches in the high Arctic and oil well service truck roads built in the wilderness and accurate touch downs and short landings often were required.

I experimented very carefully with the DC3 to see how best to perform these landings.

My findings were on snow/ice with wheel skis a tail low wheel landing worked best.

On pavement or hard surfaces such as hard packed gravel roads the wheel landing with max safe braking gave the shortest landings.

The problem with the three point landing was accurate touch down on a given point was more difficult than doing the wheel landing due to the difficulty of judging float before the three point touch down.....every second of excess float really eats up distance.

I am aware that many here may not agree with my personal methods with the DC3 but for me it worked best and I never lost control or landed short or ran off the side of the landing path or off the end in five thousand hours of flying the DC3.

Bottom line is each pilot should fly the way that works best for them and if you don't wreck the airplane then your method is best for you. :ok::ok:

There I am finished and hope we all can agree on my last sentence.:O

[piperboy84]

How about a combination, three pointer, then wheeler, then nose stand?
jridt56WzdY

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

He seemed to ignore the golden rule of stick hard back once down 3-point. In fact, unless that type has very limited elevator movement, he doesn't seem to get the stick back even as the tail rises!

Agreed, Chuck, you can judge the touchdown point more easily with a wheeler. But I can't see how a wheeler touchdown won't always be faster than a 3-point one. Maybe those Alaskan guys are very skilled at hard braking (big tundra tyres - plenty of ground grip) without nosing over?

I hardly ever use brakes to slow on the runway, especially on grass, either 3-point or wheeler. Apart from anything else, it's not very effective! For me, brakes are steering devices.

Skinny tyres on wet grass....

The Yak52 (tricycle, heavy, narrow tyres) with free-castoring nose wheel and differential main wheel brakes for steering) I had a share in for a while would simply lock a braked mainwheel at muddy winter Barton and have zero steering effect. Blipping the throttle worked better, digging in the RH tyre on power application (big 9-cylinder radial engine) and the LH tyre on sudden power reduction. Steered a treat!

[Big Pistons Forever]

O

I am aware that many here may not agree with my personal methods with the DC3 but for me it worked best and I never lost control or landed short or ran off the side of the landing path or off the end in five thousand hours of flying the DC3.



I am not sure why you are so defensive. I can't recall even one post on this site where somebody disagreed with you on how you fly the DC 3. I certainly have not, nor would I because I don't personally have any DC3 time

However this is the private flying forum and I think it is unlikely anybody reading this is flying around in his/her private DC3.

What they are more likely doing is flying around in a variety of light tail draggers. I would suggest that what is the best way to fly the DC 3 does not automatically make it the best way to fly a Cub/Champ/chippy/Jodel/Condor etc etc.

Personally I 3 point the small tail draggers and wheel land the big ones with the cross over at around the Cessna 185 size.

As for the short field thing I think it is mostly a red herring for the small tail draggers. Wheel or 3 point it is pretty much a given that you will be able to land in a shorter distance than you can safely takeoff in all of the non specialty STOL smaller taildraggers.

However like pretty much everything in flying, this issue IMHO resists one fits all pronouncements. I like reading different points of view and am always interested in different thoughts on why pilots do what they do :ok:

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Agreed, Chuck, you can judge the touchdown point more easily with a wheeler. But I can't see how a wheeler touchdown won't always be faster than a 3-point one. Maybe those Alaskan guys are very skilled at hard braking (big tundra tyres - plenty of ground grip) without nosing over?

The big tires on the Super Cub are really tricky when wheel landing because overcoming the inertia of the mass of the tires produces a very pronounced nose pitch down and you have to be very quick with the elevator to prevent it from banging the prop on the ground.

I see there is some dissatisfaction from one of the posters here because I used the DC3 as an example for describing the wheel landing on the private pilot forum...for that lapse of consideration I am pointing out how the Super Cub on big wheels reacted when wheel landing it.

In the nineteen sixties there was a Canadian Company in the Ottawa area called Bradley Air Services that equipped the Super Cub with those big tires for operating in the high Arctic on the soft surfaces when the frost was coming out of the ground.

I was flying in the Arctic at that time and spent part of a summer flying the Super Cub on the Bradley big tires, it was owned by the company I was flying the DC3 for and I offered to fly the Super Cub for a change of pace and just loved the thing..I still have a bunch of pictures of it taken on Banks Island where it was being used that summer.

One day I saw a flat topped small mountain that intrigued me and finally I got the perfect conditions to land on it with the wind about fifteen MPH and the turbulence was no problem determined by several low approaches and go arounds.....so I landed on it and after taxiing back to the approach edge I shut down and walked the top to see how long the flat surface was...it was eighty yards.

For that landing I used the wheel landing method because I had to touch down as close to the start of the level top as possible.

The reason I am going to all this effort to relate this story is to explain that using the wheel landing method worked just fine with the Super Cub on big tires just like it worked with the DC3 just in case there actually are some private pilots here who are not interested in the DC3 stories.

There....I hope that helps those who think I am just defensive and limited in my understanding of the subject of tail wheel airplanes.

Oh and another thing I would like to mention....

...when I post these stories I use my real name because I like to relate all the things I was fortunate enough to have experienced in my long career as a working pilot.

Common sense should dictate my stories are true because if I was B.S. ing my credibility would be ruined.

[Small Rodent Driver]

Keep your experiences coming Chuck. I for one enjoy reading your posts whether they concern large commercial types or the smaller types most of us here have experience of.

With regard to the use of real / assumed names, I believe the reason many of us post under such is due to the fact that we post during working / clients time and very often on their IT equipment ;)

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Thanks Small R.D. :O

i understand why some people use assumed names and have no problem with their choice as long as they do not use it to try and demean others. :O

I worked in Europe for many years and have lots of friends there and by using my real name it is a way of keeping in touch.

We pilots as a group like to identify as pilots and like relating all the interesting stuff which can sometimes be seen as self promoting so we walk a fine line at times.

Time for me is passing by a bit to fast and I like to relate my past experiences because it makes me feel younger.

In a few weeks I will be eighty and I still am as healthy as a teen ager so I may live for a long time yet.:O

[First_Principal]

Like many of us I have enjoyed tailwheel flying the most, hence my interest in this thread.

I'm fortunate to have a little DC3 time, so the input of Chuck and others has some resonance with me.

Given the mild criticism above I thought I'd mention that when I did my training and was initially rated in the DC3 I had a PPL (albeit I later upgraded to a CPL). Although it wasn't my own machine I could and did fly it on the PPL, so I don't see it as inappropriate to discuss its merits here. Besides many PPL's would surely be interested to hear what they're like to fly anyway?

In terms of wheel/three point, I only ever wheeled the DC3 on (please don't ask me about my first try!), there was never any real discussion about doing it any other way. That said one of the vastly more experienced pilots did three-point it one day. Unfortunately I wasn't around at the time to experience it, but I gather he didn't think it was a big deal. I think this was done more as an experiment to see how it would respond, perhaps should there ever be any particular need, rather than preparatory to including it as an approved landing technique...

Other than that, with the other tailwheel machines I've flown, my landings have tended to be a mix of both methods, sometimes embarrassingly coupled with something in between. I did partly groundloop a Cub once (low speed, around 90deg, ab-initio), and another time I was really just along for the ride when (another) Cub decided it was going to vacate the runway. Fortunately it was an appropriate place to vacate and I'm sure it looked quite controlled/intended to any observers, the reality however was somewhat different if I'm honest... :\

FP.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Yes, please keep it coming, Chuck. DC3 stuff is interesting as well, as most of us will never experience that first hand.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

The DC3 is a dream to fly and any private pilot could be checked out on it with no more difficulty than any other tail wheel airplane....you just sit higher above the ground in it. :O

Somewhere in my picture collection I have a picture of my last DC3 flight in Fifi Kate which was used in the Band of Brothers TV series about WW2.

The TV flying was done at North Weald just north of London...where a lot of movie flying was done.

[First_Principal]

Chuck Ellsworth: you just sit higher above the ground in it

Yes! That was the issue I alluded to that I found on approach the first time. By the time I got around to thinking about the flare we'd, er, 'positively' contacted the ground already :eek:

Definately quite a different view [at ground level] than from your average Cub/Maule/Tiger or whatever, but once you got that right, and absorbed some of the internal mechanics required prior to landing it was no harder, and in fact possibly easier in some cases, to land than anything else.

Amongst other things once all three wheels were on the ground it was perhaps a little less likely to wander off track because it had a locking tailwheel pivot. Also with greater mass and length it took more to divert it from course than smaller machines - although I think it also took somewhat more perceptive effort to keep straight. That is to say I found it less instantly responsive to the pedals on the ground (as you might expect) so you had to plan more and react somewhat in advance - quite a slow pendulum effect really.

FP.

[Pilot DAR]

An added element in the DC-3 is that you do not have any "nose" visible out side the windshield to help with visual reference to align the aircraft to the runway. Having the windshield and its frame at quite an angle doesn't help either. A reference is to fly the instrument panel perpendicular to the runway (or nearly so for a crosswind), which takes a bit of thinking.

The DC-3, with an eleven degree three point attitude, is an example of what I'm speaking of when I remarked that the wheel landing will shift the C of G a bit forward relative to the mainwheels, and slightly reduce a tendency for a groundloop to develop.

[Sam Rutherford]

I agree with the helicopter comment - you're used to being busy with your feet...

Video of a 3 pointer going wrong here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfy5SRKxO_c

Safe flights, Sam.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

An added element in the DC-3 is that you do not have any "nose" visible out side the windshield to help with visual reference to align the aircraft to the runway. Having the windshield and its frame at quite an angle doesn't help either. A reference is to fly the instrument panel perpendicular to the runway (or nearly so for a crosswind), which takes a bit of thinking

For some reason I have never had the need to have any " nose " visable for situational reference, my mind just references the picture relative to where my head and eyes are pointed.

Maybe it is my overhang eyebrows from my Neanderthal like skull due to my still evolving? :E

[Maoraigh1]

Was the Maule video problem adding too much power suddenly after touchdown ?

[Sam Rutherford]

No, it was exactly what this thread is about. Not being 'all over the plane' on touchdown (approach was a little ropey, but perfectly useable).

The Maule is particularly keen to get the tail in front of the nose!

[Mach Jump]

The key to understanding this Maule 'accident' is the way the nose snakes from side to side all the way down the final approach, with opposite aileron being used to correct it.

This pilot has little, if any, understanding of adverse yaw, and the concept of preventing yaw with the rudder.


MJ:ok:

Ps. Hmmmmm...... The Maule video seems to have disappeared now. :(

[Micha B]

Having had an instructor during tailwheel training, who insisted that I need to master both wheel landings and 3 pointers, I use both of them regularly and see advantages in each variant in certain situations.


Just one example:
Considering the taildragger at an 3 point landing just before touchdown, the airplane needs to be aligned with the runway centerline with no drift and on speed. In a crosswind situation, this requires the use of rudder. The higher the crosswind component, the higher the rudder input. So max rudder deflection defines the maximum acceptable crosswind component.
A higher speed would increase the rudder authority, but the speed cannot be increased without sacrificing the three point attitude.


When performing a wheel landing, the airplane can be flown at a higher speed, thus increasing rudder authority, which increases the crosswind capability.


My instructor was right! It's good to have both variants in your bag of techniques! - Just my 2 cents ..


Blue skies and happy landings,


Micha