Norwegian B787 - LGW based

[planedrive]

@dreamflight1;

Completed the tests mid December haven't heard anything since. Anyone else in a similar situation? Thought Norwegian were desperate for pilots?

[Lancelot de boyles]

OSM take the stance that you are an employee solely with them.
For example, if you wanted, as I did, to take advantage of the 737 'winter downsizing', and take a short contract with an overseas company, OSM robustly stated that I work for them, and only them. To work on any contract elsewhere would require my resignation, first. However, to take advantage of the 'winter downsizing' would entail taking unpaid leave.
This is a different stance to that taken by ARPI.

So. If one is an employee of OSM, and Norwegian choose to no longer use your services, surely OSM are obliged to continue the permanent and full time employment, with permanent and full time basic salary.

[captplaystation]

I think you will find that if Norwegian no longer "require your services" an excuse along the lines of "by your actions you have threatened the relationship between OSM & their client & risked bringing OSM into disrepute" as opposed to "hard luck old boy, fancy a contract with Transavia in MUC ? " . . .anyhow, they have very little to offer on the 737, and, even less on the 787 so, you will in all likelihood be simultaneously dismissed from OSM if NAS don't want you. . . . . .

[Jetkopite]

Are you guys rated 78/777 and waiting that long to hear back??? Also left or right seat?

[Meester proach]

There's about 30 new pilots starting every month.

Therefore I guess the recruitment team is flat out. They'll get to you no doubt

[Jetkopite]

Anyone know if the online tests have a validity in which they must be completed?

[ExDubai]

OSM take the stance that you are an employee solely with them.
For example, if you wanted, as I did, to take advantage of the 737 'winter downsizing', and take a short contract with an overseas company, OSM robustly stated that I work for them, and only them. To work on any contract elsewhere would require my resignation, first. However, to take advantage of the 'winter downsizing' would entail taking unpaid leave.
This is a different stance to that taken by ARPI.

So. If one is an employee of OSM, and Norwegian choose to no longer use your services, surely OSM are obliged to continue the permanent and full time employment, with permanent and full time basic salary.
I wouldn't bet on that ;)

[planedrive]

RHS non type rated 3500TT - 2 months now since I took the tests.

[Direct Bondi]

Recruitment ads are appearing for flight crews to join the “Norwegian family” via employment with service provider OSM. In an interview on January 16, OSM CEO, Espen Hoiby, assures “the best possible collaboration between unions and the company”:

http://www.icenews.is/2017/01/16/ceo-espen-hoiby-we-offer-pilots-and-cabin-crew-long-term-and-secure-jobs/#axzz4XSxrmcRH

However, in meetings on February 14 and 15 between crew member’s union representatives and management, the gross hypocrisy of Norwegian’s “family values” was made apparent:

http://cabinassociation.org/current-events/

“The most disappointing moment at the meeting, though, is when Management said that they would not allow the NCCA to start collecting Union Dues. Many words were exchanged and it’s apparent that Management is still upset at our Union victories last year when we won every legal battle against the Management and finally emerged victorious with our union being voted in.
The inability of our Union to collect dues is very serious as it will affect our ability to successfully negotiate a contract and Management knows this. Without dues money, our Union cannot afford the legal advisers, economic advisers, and other professional services that result in you, our members, receiving the best contract we can negotiate”

What has this got to do with this thread? I hear chumps shout. Well, on joining you will become a Norwegian family member and wear the same '100% Norwegian' badge as your US (and Spanish) relatives – or perhaps you don’t care about your family.

[KindolFaret]

+6000hrs jet, applied for RCAPT position. Finished online asessments in September. Got email in November saying application still active. No news since then. Anyone in similar situation? How long it takes to be invited for Interview?
Cheers

[INKJET]

Captainplaystation

Well good luck with the Spanish courts !!! I doubt Norwegian will settle at the court doors, Spanish law is a minefield, it could go either way depending on whether your case is heard pre or post siesta time, we are talking 3rd world judiciary here, but it could be worse if you were in Roma the outcome would be known already, but not to you....

[pilot hans]

i did the online test and was given assessment dates just a couple of days later, this was in January. assessment will be in March. Relief capt. Not sure I'll go there because they are not really answering questions about T and C...

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Standbys are scattered throughout your roster and you have to be in base for those even as a commuter. 7 days STBY, which is not unusual is all paid for by you! hotel, transport, food the lot.
Shiver me timbers quell surprise Pilots always seem to forget about the S word when they take jobs. And OMG you have to pay for it also - The answer is don't commute

[samca]

Hi,

Just today I complete the online tests. Coming from a LoCo company in Europe B737 4500+ hours ATPL . I applied for FO.

Can you tell me how many time usually it will take to have an answer?

Another question, I'm looking for Barcelona, it is possible to have the base which you gonna go before the interview?

Last one, can anyone share a Roster just to see flying hours, Duty hours and stby days?

The training cost bond is from my bank or a you just sign a document?,

Cheers

[TractorMatt]

If someone needs infos on the sim session drop me a text message.
I feel happy to help today :E

I'd appreciate any Sim feedback for the Norwegian LH assessment!

[samca]

Hi,

Just today I complete the online tests. Coming from a LoCo company in Europe B737 4500+ hours ATPL . I applied for FO.

Can you tell me how many time usually it will take to have an answer?

Another question, I'm looking for Barcelona, it is possible to have the base which you gonna go before the interview?

Last one, can anyone share a Roster just to see flying hours, Duty hours and stby days?

The training cost bond is from my bank or a you just sign a document?,

Cheers

After a few days, I have the answer to the tests. Seems to be I'm not the kind of person they are looking for...

Thank you for your application and your interest in our company, and we are sorry to have to inform you that we have chosen to prioritize other applicants for the position in question.
We would like to thank you for your interest and wish you the best of luck for the future.

You are naturally welcome to apply for other positions we advertise. We recommend that you activate the job agent in our recruitment solution. This will ensure that you receive notification by e-mail whenever we advertise new situations vacant that match your criteria.

[JoeMcGrath]

Did the Assessment for NAS in Miami. Interview,some tech questions which I couldnt remember and Compas Test. Lastly,sim eval. 5 days later received a Dear John letter. Thanks but,no thanks.

[Sunrig]

@Joe
Out of interest- what fleet did you apply for? 787 or the MAX? I hear interviews in MIA are for both fleets?
What position did you aim at and what is your experience if you don't mind to share?
And I wonder where the other applicants come from?
Thanks for your info!

[aussieizborn]

Can someone inform me as to how Norwegian, as a foreign operator, can operate out of Gatwick to destinations various, competing and actually denying business to true British carriers? Is it part of the EU agreement. If so I must admit I can't wait until the skies belong to our operators again.

[FlipFlapFlop]

In the same way eJ does across Europe. As horrible as the Norwegian employment model is, we should be careful what we wish for.

[SMT Member]

Can someone inform me as to how Norwegian, as a foreign operator, can operate out of Gatwick to destinations various, competing and actually denying business to true British carriers? Is it part of the EU agreement. If so I must admit I can't wait until the skies belong to our operators again.

Absolutely. It's the same rules which allow easyJet to establish a base at e.g. Schiphol and cart people from there all over the continent and UK. Works both ways, you see.

The aircraft Norwegian have based at Gatters are Irish registred, that is until they've got their UK AOC up and running and start transferring aircraft over to G-reg. The RoI is a full EU member, Norway is an EEA member, which brings most of the benefits of being a full EU member - including the ability to launch an airline anywhere in the EU under a Norwegian AOC.

Norwegian is 'denying business' no more than any other airline operating in the UK or EU; they are offering a product which a large and growing number of people are reacting positively to. There's nothing stopping a UK company doing something along the same lines, and indeed they have - with tremendous success.

[aussieizborn]

Thanks to all for explaining that. I suppose any UK company could have taken the initiative and been there first.

[FlipFlapFlop]

The difference is how far down costs can be driven and who is prepared to force terms and conditions in to the dust the hardest. Any model that deliberately separates its workforce from the true employer is in my opinion a step too far.

[Direct Bondi]

they are offering a product which a large and growing number of people are reacting positively to.
Some people are not reacting so positively, especially when;

Large numbers are left stranded and distraught –

http://cphpost.dk/news/thousands-left-stranded-over-the-weekend-as-norwegian-air-cancels-30-flights.html

Aircraft pressurization is overlooked –

http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/norwegian-fly-i-drama-tok-av-pa-tross-av-alarmer-kabinbesetningen-matte-lope-til-setene/65397686

Emergency exits are unmanned –

http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/norwegian-fly-underbemannet-over-atlanteren---uakseptabelt-sier-luftfartstilsynet/60837640

They would rather not skid off the runway –

http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/passagerarplan-gled-av-landningsbanan/

They need to position their pooch –

http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/hundedrama-pa-fly-norwegian-beklager---ma-ha-vaert-ganske-vill-panikk/67444344

Fingers, toes and paws may be needed to count the costs of Norwegian’s “extras” legacy carriers commonly include in their ticket price –

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shermans-travel/are-norwegian-air-shuttle_b_5589408.html

[aless85]

@ Direct Bondi

Can you post news of 2017... Not constantly repeat old news over and over again!

Thank you

[Monstersinc1]

Hello guys, Has anyone applied recently? What kind of time frame are we talking form online tests to sim? Any info appreciated! Also, if anyone has done the sim recently and is willing to give a quick over view then please PM me! Cheers!

[snak]

Hi guys! anyone has some info about relief captain position? I would like to know in particular:

1) where the relief cpt seats normally, t/off & landing.
2) are the hours logged as full PIC?

cheers guys

[Payscale]

SNAK

I dont work for Norwegian but as a general rule...

A relief Captain only flies in the cruise segment. Hence sits in an observer seat during take off and landings.

PICs time is logged only when sitting in the operating seat.

[JetpoweredMigrantWkr]

I think the cruise Capts get to count ~50% of their time in the seat as PIC time. Something like that.

[Swept]

I have a friend who joined earlier this year and online assessment to invite was 7 days and they wanted him to assess the following week. When he passed the assessment they were flexible about the joining date and Rishworth were pretty helpful.
He's still in line training, which is taking a while, but is enjoying the Company and hasn't got a bad thing to say about them......unlike some here!

[JetpoweredMigrantWkr]

That is on par with several reports that I have heard as well from friends that were hired through Rishworth as well as OSM.

[directmisbi]

Classes are full, high calibre 380/777 skippers from especially the middle east have taken the jump to be closer to home, and even though they have taken a pay cut, many are finding the relaxed and professional working environment to be very beneficial. Colleagues are excellent, and after a couple of years on the Rishworth, trainers are grossing around 200.000 euros pr year on the osm contract for example..

[FlipFlapFlop]

directmisbi. Are you a pilot or Norwegian management or OSM ?

[mackey]

Afternoon all,
Anybody have any ideas regarding the bank guarantee for the B787 type rating bond? I couldn't see any info on the earlier posts.
Cheers

[highfive]

Bonds...

Its all in the contract and will be explained to you in detail during your initial Skype interview. You will be asked on skype how you intend to provide the funds.

Last I looked the DEC bonds ( bank guarantees) were :
€ 40k for unrated widebody ( eg airbus)
€30k boeing eg 767/744
€20k if 777 rated.(may have been dropped?)

[mackey]

Bonds...

Its all in the contract and will be explained to you in detail during your initial Skype interview. You will be asked on skype how you intend to provide the funds.

Last I looked the DEC bonds ( bank guarantees) were :
€ 40k for unrated widebody ( eg airbus)
€30k boeing eg 767/744
€20k if 777 rated.(may have been dropped?)

I appreciate this but what I was asking, was did anyone know who the bank guarantee is with, which bank or banks?
Cheers.

[Avenger]

Normally a "bank guarantee" is written by your own bank, which means they are satisfied that you have the means to pay them back if they pay the airline money according to a default clause, In some cases airlines require a bank guarantee from a particular bank, if it is not your "normal bank" and you have no client history with them they may ask you to deposit funds equal to the guarantee in an escrow type account, which bears interest ( FWIW!) .A chum of mine required a letter of guarantee and the bank obliged after they took a second charge on his home..

[highfive]

Taking out a second mortgage on a home to allow you to join a company who pays a salary to allow you to pay off that very load is self defeating .
But its the way of the modern pilot ( society?) .
Debt debt debt ...

[pilot hans]

even when you're type rated they ask for a bond...
Atmosphere is good they say ;-)

[Mr Angry from Purley]

If its a great place to work you can either suggest no need to bond crews, or on the other foot no need to worry about bond (as long as you have it) when you're not going to move on...
Unless the losses continue to grow?

[Push to talk]

Lot of interesting and creative talk here, but I do know RCA's in Norwegian can not log a single hour as PIC! You can have discussions if its right or wrong, but as an RCA you are just looking after the aircraft for the Captain and can't log it as PIC. It simply is fraude if you do as Norwegian doesn't let RCA's log their time in the captains seat as PIC. Being RCA is nothing more than a sort of senior FO in Norwegian.

Could an FO otherwise also log PIC time when the captain is in the toilet during flight with a two man crew? Right......

[NineInchSnail]

You can say whatever you want about Norwegian LH, how good the working environment is, new planes....etc, at the end of the day 10 days off at home per month for a long haul operation seems very low to me. Most of the domestic low costs offer 12 days off. Flying a widebody should AT LEAST be able to accomodate the same. Looks like guys are currently getting a couple more days off in Scandinavia but this is still days away from home.....

[twentyyearstoolate]

Been here as a Captain a few months now. Some people like it, but I don't.

10 days off and doing over 90 hours east west. First 3 years no overtime pay, so they work you as hard as they can. The times they maybe have a surplus of crew and the schedules aren't as busy you can expect no more days off than 10, but spare days to be standby.

Hotels by the most part are terrible, and the transport is usually a van where you only just fit. Sometimes theres not even enough seats if theres extra crew on training flights. Then a few have to wait for the return trip to get picked up, or agree to squeeze in illegally. Many places you have to call the Hotel yourself to arrange pickup!

Very nice colleagues to fly with, but i got to say I'll be looking for another job as this one is modern slavery.

[kahaha]

Midnight cruiser, with that attitude , you will be outta the door my asian friend ;)

[flyhigh788]

How much net can I expect as a FO on the 787?

As far as I understand, it's a contract with rishworth?

[samca]

Answer 5000 net

[flyhigh788]

So no deductions at all

[Speedbrakes Up]

5000 net as a first officer....your dreaming right!

[aless85]

I think Samca is right 5k Net in Euros though.

[737 CL]

Hi, Anybody knows the Net Salary for Captain and Relief Captain under Rishworth contract?

[samsara]

Thats the gross figure without per diem .

[Avenger]

Thats about £4900 after tax then ( but without per diem) which could be taxed at a different rate

[sirfly]

6. REMUNERATION

. 6.1 Employer shall for the period from the Commencement Date until the termination of this Agreement pay the Employee the monthly payments as follows:
(a) Salary of Captain GBP 7,470;
(b) The Employee can claim destination specific per diems to cover work related expenses for time the Employee spends away from Base outside the UK as part of their flight duties or on other official work-related business. The Employee can claim a maximum amount of GBP 830 per month as per diems based on rosters. Should the Employee claim more than GBP 830 in a month, the Employer may carry forward any excess to the following months until utilised or the current tax year ends, whichever comes first. Should the Employee claim less than GBP 830 per month, the Employer will add any excess carried forward from previous months. If this sum is less than GBP 830, then the difference will be paid as a taxable bonus; and
such payment to be prorated for any employment commencing or terminating part way through a month.

. 6.2 The payments specified in Clause 6.1 above are before Taxes and shall be paid in arrears. The above stated payments are the total remuneration payable to the Employee inclusive of all benefits and no overtime rates or additional payments will apply.

. 6.3 Payment shall be sent from Employer’s bank account to an account to be nominated by the Employee for each month of completed service, no later than the 28th day of the month of service (less any bank transfer charges payments if to more than one bank account, if any). Where the 28th day falls on a weekend or public or bank holiday, payment shall be sent on the next working day.

7. TAXES

. 7.1 The Employer shall be entitled to deduct any Taxes arising at Base or as required under the law of any other jurisdiction.

. 7.2 Subject to any deductions by the Employer in accordance with Clause 7.1 above, the Employee shall be responsible for all Taxes relating to the Employee or to this Agreement, and shall:

. (i) file all tax returns and pay any required Taxes as they fall due in any applicable jurisdiction; and

. (ii) provide the Employer with information requested by the Employer evidencing the Employee ́s tax and social security numbers and payment of Taxes in accordance with Clause 7.2 (i) above;

. (iii) indemnify the Employer and/or the Client in respect of any failure by the Employee to pay Taxes due or comply with any applicable laws and regulations.

[Ethiopia]

Would any of you be so kind to tell us how a normal roster would be for a Cruise Relief Capt? Any chance to commute on days off or they are just spread single days off?

How long does it normally take to upgrade?

Thanks.

[ynos]

I'm interested in any information regarding TnC you might have and as well any information regarding Relief Captain positions

Thanks

[sirfly]

I posted the full LGW Captains TnCs above . Direct from my contract . For the unitiated thats it . Oh sorry a £85 phone allowance . So NLH can call you at 3am .

Note that there's no overtime payment . Zilch , zero , Zip.
Hence on the first 3 year contract expect to work all hours God sends ( or should that be Klos sends ;) . For zero remuneration. I mean £0.0.
Who's pockets are you lining?

Note: NLH are very keen that you are not caught up in tax avoidance schemes and explicitly will stand by the contract re local taxation.

[Swept]

If you want Ts&Cs then go straight to Rishworth. They are more than happy to send you the Powerpoint presentations and details if you ask.

I'm sorry, but to copy all of the info I have here is really a waste when they are so keen to disseminate the information!

[7Q Off]

whats the pay after the first 3 year contract with no overtime?

[Rhodes13]

Is it me or does there seem to be an excessive amount of mystery and cloak and dagger about what happens after the 3 year contract? I saw an oblique reference to after the 3 year period earlier but why is it so hard to be upfront with the details? It might make the appaling pay worth it if you know it does eventually get better!

[fly4more]

The above post typifies the modern day pilot. Willing to take "appaling" (posters words) terms n pay , for a perceived increase (Unknown) after 3 years of an "appalling " contract. In the hope of what ?

To join as NLH as DEC, a pilot has to have considerable experience. They are therefore more than likely to be over 40. Most are 45+ for DEC. Its a true wannabe who is willing to sacrifice 3 years of their lives, at this age, in the hope that the next contract may be better. But could be worse, or non existent.

[Rhodes13]

You presume a lot there fly4more. No I'm not willing to come back for that and no I'm not in the age bracket you mention.

I absolutely agree it's appalling pay, however for people wanting to come back to Europe what would you suggest we do? There aren't many DEC jobs available, and those that are available aren't a million miles off what Norwegian long haul is paying. Further it's the European airlines that have gone down the route of specifying that you have to have the type to apply or be willing to pay for it to get the job which further limits the choices people have.

But thanks for the sanctimonious post, you really achieved a lot and helped your fellow colleagues with your innate knowledge of the terms after the three year mark!

[fly4more]

Rhodes, you sound like some shell shocked soldier with post traumatic stress disorder. Have you been in battle overseas too long n wish to return to the busom of your mother land? As if they really want you back , thats what happens to soldiers of fortune.

Lets be positive now, at least you can buy a detatched 4 bed residence, perhaps send the kids to grammar school n buy the missus a new mini. If you stayed at J2 god help you with any dreams of private school or a flash gaff.

NLH is a bind for most there. But they dont fight it.

[Rhodes13]

I see your still up to your sanctimonious posting. Hope it helps you smooth the little fellas ego.

How hard is it to answer a question that was asked? If you don't know say so instead of going on some rant about the terms at NLH (your contract posted only covers the first three years and was not what I asked) I notice you aren't on the easyJet page bemoaning the 20-25k sterling up front for a DEC job, why's that? Surely both are as bad as each other?

I agree it's not great pay but family reasons mean that I need to return back to Europe so how bout you wind your next before you start posting crap about someone's situation.

Sadly this forum has gone to the dogs with :mad: like you thinking they're better than everyone and not offering any advice just barbs. So how bout you chew on that.

(PS you've been wrong twice now about my situation re age and previous employer. Any other guesses champ?)

[Rhodes13]

I'm not sure why I bother but again fly4more you're not very good at guessing are you? Wrong on multiple accounts again, yes offered a gig and yes am rated on the bus but keep digging the hole.

And whilst not directly related easy does indeed need a mention after your pop at "those modern pilots who accept appalling terms" as you put it. For surely what easy does is just a different way of skinning the cat?

For anyone else that may know what happens AFTER the initial three years can you please share here or via PM.

Much appreciated.

[prisoner24601]

RCA recruitment seems to have slowed down, do you know when this will start again?

[and]

Any idea why nas.ol stocks are having such deep loss?

[MoonandBack]

Been looking over this thread for a while, but no mention of it: How many days Annual Leave do you get? Is it the standard 42 or only 28?

Thanks.

[samsara]

It's the standard 28

[Mach81]

I applied a few months ago (RCA) did the online tests and didn't hear anything yet. From what I understand they have a bit of a backlog. But I'm hoping with new aircraft arriving next year things might start happening..fingers crossed!!

[Danfly180]

I got an email from OSM a week ago. I did the contract briefing and now I am scheduled for the interview with Norwegian in MIA on August 23. Has anyone done the screening in MIA for FLL FO based 787?

Please don't reply to my message if you don't have anything positive to say. My wife just got a job transfer to the EU and this job will help me transfer over there in the next couple years. And if things are not better after the 3 years a lot of pilot are using this experience and going to Virgin Atlantic.

Thanks

[FlipFlapFlop]

Not the way social media works. ;) Especially when you are talking about Norwegian.

[misterzull]

Ciao to all, I have been offered a Fo position on 787 in LGW with the possibility to be based in FCO soon and because I am from Roma this is a very interesting opportunity for my point of view but before accepting I would like to know if there are real possibility for an upgrade in the near future having 6000 hrs on A320. Does anyone have real experience in that? During the selection I have been told from 7 months to 2 years. Is that real?

Thank you for your answer.

[Supernumerary]

you will need 1000hrs heavy, so including training you're looking at minimum 2 years

[Tricia Takanawa]

How long is the expected upgrade from RCA to Capt? Assuming hour req. are met?
What are the req. for upgrade?
Many thanks!

[Saab0409]

Would be quite interested as well. Plus a few more questions:

- what's the roster like at the minute
- as a RCA do you get to land the aircraft from the right seat
- they are advertising a base in AMS, how does that work out with no 787 there.
- the average take home pay for a RCA

Thanks for any info available!

[AFA]

What exactly is an RCA?

I know what it stands for but what's the difference between one and a suitably qualified SFO at BA or VS that acts as PIC whilst the captain is in the bunks?
Are they paid as captains minus a few %? Completed a command course?
What's the deal?

I assume it's more than just a :mad: title to stroke egos so people can pretend they're captains?

[wince]

Could any 787 Norwegian drivers please pm me a typical month roster.

[VinRouge]

Same here if possible? Even if just indicative of blocks of tasking and locations flown to.

Is the 78 operating to KSWF? An old haunt of mine!

[Fred_fr]

Could any 787 Norwegian drivers please pm me a typical month roster.

Looking also to have a look to the roster.

Thanks

[Saab0409]

As far as I've heard it's a small block of a 3 day trip (LAX) followed by 5 days off followed by 10-14 (!) days trip away followed by 5 off followed by 4 on. In the 10-14 day trip you are sent all over the network. Anybody on the inside can confirm if this is 'normal'?

[VinRouge]

What is the typical layover around the network? Sounds pretty good compared to what I am used to at my current employment. Is overtime in down time available from the 2 week published roster point?

How many days standby per month, and is this based on 2 hours/1 hour report?

[a-ricky-town]

Does anyone who applied in the last 6 weeks got any reply yet? Nothing here from Norwegian or Rishworth....

[A340Yumyum]

They're probably trying to decipher your grammar!

;

[a-ricky-town]

Thanks for being so kind....

[Go Around Flaps]

They do offer day off payments for overtime

[lansen]

Now offering people in the holding pool for the Dreamliner to fly B737 from DUB or EDI on an OSM contract. 787 training bond is reduced by 950€/month while on the 737. Seniority is counted from the day of entry on the 737 and can be transferred onto the 787. Paid accommodation while on the assignment.

[Smooth Airperator]

They are offering 737 because they are desperate on that fleet too. You can say no without penalty. There is still plenty of movement wrt 787 hiring with dates of January being offered to latest joiners.

BTW, overtime payments are now here. Showing on a sample Global Crew contract I've seen. 1/10th of monthly salary paid as a daily rate.

[CALLE13]

Any idea of what kind of roster can you expect in the 787?

Is the same roster in all the bases or LGW guys get a few more days in base?

Thanks!

[Orly1]

I hope you don't mind that I post the following here, but I'm curious if there are similar conditions for contracts at other B787 bases.
I was shown a copy of the contract for working for OSM in Florida. I have never seen such a document for a job. I can only imagine that it might apply to a very highly paid, very sensitive position at an internet startup, or such. When you resign, or are asked to leave, it seems to say that you cannot work for any other company that might pose any kind of competition to OSM, for the subsequent two years. In other words, you cannot work as a pilot (or other aviation profession) in any part of the world they operate after you leave the company.
Perhaps I misread it - and I cannot post it out of respect for the person to whom it was sent - but it is quite intimidating as I read it. It goes so far as to say that if it is not shown to be valid in court, it could still be enforced. There is no provision for a pay increase during the time of the contract (3 years). There is no facility for a pension contribution, by either the company or the employee. The contract is extendable by 1 year on a renewable basis, after the first three years.
I don't mean to be critical of the company, but i am curious if anyone involved has seen such a document before. I have read of non compete clauses in contracts in the US. However the restriction of two years after leaving seems a violation of a person's human right to work, and to provide for themselves.
There is a restriction on doing any kind of other work - self employed or otherwise.
I have heard that the work environment is quite good, and that the management are reasonable. I was told that at a road show, they prided themselves in being the opposite to a middle eastern company in how they treated their people.
I realise that a contract is most likely the product of what is allowed by the laws of the base you're in. But the spirit of this contract seems to be hostile to the employee, and contrary to the culture the company purports to promote.
Any thoughts?

[JaxofMarlow]

Enter stage left....... Bondi.
There are hundreds of posts on numerous threads about OSM contracts.
RYR have replaced Norwegian as public enemy number one for the time being, but I doubt you will get many replies in defence.

[Sucram]

Hi does anyone have any info on the format for the Sim assessment and interview in Oslo for a 787 DEC, thanks.

[BizJetJockey]

I know it keeps being asked...seemingly without a confirmed response so what is the standard roster on the 787? If it's true you do a 10-14 day block away, it's not exactly ideal if you have a family. Any truth in this? Thanks.

[fly4more]

No good for families. No good for over 40s ! The roster could be upto 20 days away then a block of 10 off . From what I
saw. But it may have changed.

10days off a month not really worth it when many other options.

[Bus Driver Man]

Contact Rishworth for example rosters and all the contract details for all the different bases. That's what they're for and they reply very quick.
The improved OSM contract after the initial 3 year contract seems to be a big secret though...

-Only 10 days off guaranteed. Given in blocks of 5+5 or 4+4+2 or random.
-Mostly W-patterns: From A to B to C to D to A.
-Some stand-by days to fill the gaps. Could be at home base or could be in a hotel somewhere else.

[Smooth Airperator]

I've heard that in practice many pilots are getting 11 and some even 12 days off per month. Also, very recently a new type of roster has been issued which gives a lot more STBYs at home.

According to their own admission, they are still working out how to roster for longhaul flights properly. They have plans to address the work/life balance but ultimately this cannot be done when you only have a couple of aircraft at a base and need W patterns to sustain the schedule in an economical and safe(delays) way.

[Parkbremse]

The sim program is standard OPC material, very fair and something no trained pilot should have a problem with. The challenge lies in working properly with your colleague, who might be from a different nationality with a different cultural mindset, is used to different SOPs, is like you maybe not rated on the 737 etc... in a time pressed environment (Sim time is limited) Application of CRM is key and what recruiters primarily look for besides displaying a base level of flying standard.

Interview is pretty standard, no pitfalls here.

[ProfessorSnape]

Could someone explain how the type rating bond works please.

Cheers

[Smooth Airperator]

Very simple, you provide €35,000 up front paid into an account of the airline's/agency's choice and they pay it back by 1/3 every year up to 3 years. After 3 years, you owe nothing and get your money back and are free to leave if that's what you wish without penalty. Leave before and they keep the pro-rated amount.

If you are unwilling to pay the airline/agency then you can deposit into a bank account of your choice providing the bank can give the airline/agency a guarantee that they will be paid the cost of the training if you leave early. This way your money is safe in case the airline/agency disappear.

Not an easy thing to do, finding €35,000 but there you have it.

[ProfessorSnape]

Thanks for the info - a non-starter for me

[Sucram]

Thanks for the feed back Parkbremse, I'm a bit confused by the introduction email stating a "two part sim" and report 0600 ending at 1500, that seems a very long time for a sim and interview.

[Speedbrakes Up]

Sucram,

Sims take place through the day, normally divided into 2 groups, interview etc in the morning, then sim in afternoon, or Visa Versa.

2 part sim, assessed as both PF and PM, so your in the box twice flying the same profile but once as PF and once as PM.

[Sucram]

Many thanks for that Speedbrakes

[Trampdave]

The sim program is standard OPC material, very fair and something no trained pilot should have a problem with. The challenge lies in working properly with your colleague, who might be from a different nationality with a different cultural mindset, is used to different SOPs, is like you maybe not rated on the 737 etc... in a time pressed environment (Sim time is limited) Application of CRM is key and what recruiters primarily look for besides displaying a base level of flying standard.

Interview is pretty standard, no pitfalls here.

Have I missed a twist of irony in your post Parkbremse?
A standard OPC in a cockpit you have never seen before, with no SOPs knowledge, with a guy in the same position like yourself that might not even understand what you re saying in a time pressed environment? Sure, piece of cake.
You re a genius and made my day bro :D

[Quantity Surveyor]

Hi, Does anyone the rough LGW 787 FO gross pay per month ?

From looking at the pilot jobs network I can see the base pay is in Euros whilst the additional pay is in £'s ?

Thanks

[Iver]

How often do you get internal transfers from the Norwegian 737 fleet to the 787 fleet? Are there many people out of LGW or other bases who have made the switch? Is there a defined path through the agencies or are the operations completely separate from a hiring perspective?

[Parkbremse]

Have I missed a twist of irony in your post Parkbremse?
A standard OPC in a cockpit you have never seen before, with no SOPs knowledge, with a guy in the same position like yourself that might not even understand what you re saying in a time pressed environment? Sure, piece of cake.
You re a genius and made my day bro :D

Great I made your day but sorry bro, you really think you must be a genius to fly a V1 Cut or a simple LOFT, followed by some decision making, approach, missed approach and NPA to landing to a safe standard, one time PF and and another time as PM?

[alosaurus]

The rosters are...VERY slowly getting better. Ten days off still is the norm but now we have several promised changes (such as reserve days - 10 hour notice) replacing standby 80% of the time. This means the non UK based LGW crews can spend reserve days at home. As always though...will believe it when I see it on my roster.

[Luggage]

Are there any FLL crews who have transferred to Europe and how long does it take.

I live and work in the US but have been offered the 787 thru OSM.

Needless to say I am not a green card holder but have a work visa for the US thru my current company.

I would prefer to come back to Europe and take a base like BCN or FCO and wondering if anybody else was offered FLL but managed to just get a European base straight away.

In the US the bond is a 3 year service bond so no money up front which is a lot better and am hoping to transfer this deal over to Europe.

PM me if you wish to discuss anything privately and any help is much appreciated.

Also if you have any information on what a European flight schedule looks like for the 787 including days off/at home that would be great.:ok:

[trancada]

But to be based in US, you need a green card.
They announced the opening of LAX base.
If you volunteer is it easy to get it after , for non-residents?

[747 forever]

Hi guys,

sorry that this isn't necessarily related to the B787, but I wanted to ask if anybody knows whether or not Norwegian would be looking to recruit low hour pilots onto the B737 in Europe like they did in the past? There seems to be a lot of positions open at the minute for experience First Officers and as far as I'm aware they used to have low hour positions open previously.

Many thanks guys!

[PLD]

Hi All,

Anyone got the confirmation for the 29/10 (tel:29/10 788) 787 course, base in LGW?

Cheers

[CaptainProp]

Virgin recruiting rated 787 FOs now. :ok:

CP

[supergaleb]

Hello dear colleagues,

I am planing to joint the Norwegian Airlines on B787 non type rated, however I just have one doubt and I would appreciate if you could help me out. I've read all the previous threads... What I am concerned on: "What kind of agreement is offered after 3 years with global crew?"
Thank you so much!

Kind regards

[supergaleb]

Thank you so much for a quick reply!
That is exactly what I am concern about.
​​​​​​​What are the conditions on the new contract after 3 years with global crew?

[FlyingH1gh]

Does anybody know much about the latest recruitment drive, I'm assuming they are recruiting more 787 pilots considering the recent closure of EDI (and a surplus of 737 pilots)? Or am I way off the mark considering the expansion of the 737 fleet?

[Meester proach]

Hello dear colleagues,

I am planing to joint the Norwegian Airlines on B787 non type rated, however I just have one doubt and I would appreciate if you could help me out. I've read all the previous threads... What I am concerned on: "What kind of agreement is offered after 3 years with global crew?"
Thank you so much!

Kind regards


after three years , you move to OSm. The pay is a bit better, and you get things like BUPA membership

[Iver]

Where are they sourcing pilots from these days for the 787 at LGW? Mainly ME?

What about from Ryanair, Easy & Jet2? What’s the proportion from each these days (ME vs LCCs like Ryanair and Easy?

[Elephant and Castle]

I have had a look at the salary tables and is simply not true that RYR or J2 earn more. As far as the hotels go I am told they are quite nice actually

[FlyingH1gh]

I have had a look at the salary tables and is simply not true that RYR or J2 earn more. As far as the hotels go I am told they are quite nice actually
Are you able to share?

[Meester proach]

EZ, RY and even lowly J2 pay significantly more than Norwegian LH on the 787.

You take a big pay cut to a) fly the 787 2) Fly long haul.

The LoCo companies offer fixed roster. Try that with NLH. 5/4 is ideal. Do the math, you are at work a whole lot less than staring into the night for 21 days away on LH sectors.

NLH uses the 787as a great ploy to attract crews who perceive LH as the holy grail. However, the reality of 3 star hotel layovers after 15hours duty plied with cheap food is far from utopia.

Long Haul was a great lifestyle. But not with the like of NLH. Stick to BA or VA.


I’m guessing you don’t, haven’t and never will work for NAS/NUK. Incidentally there’s no “ NLH “.
the hotels are OK, most are quite nice and are constantly reviewed and changed if necessary.

it’s ridiculous to compare “ fixed roster “ short haul with longhaul. There’s no airline offering fixed roster in LH.

it’s horses for courses, personally I report for four trips a month, maybe 1 or 2 of those are early .(0420 earliest )
and even with the jet lag, I’d rather do that than 5 earlies on SH.

all this “ getting home very night “. Not much point me being there if I’m permanently knackered and grumpy as sin and looking forward to going to bed at 8pm

[matt283]

Awful and cursed Copthorne Hotel London Gatwick is the worst hotel I ever visited, still have nightmares about the stay...

I wonder how many reports have been written about that hotel and still nothing...

[ChrisE]

Hi guys,

A couple of questions regarding the contract - I've been umming and arring about applying recently having totally lost all confidence in my current employers management and structure, however I flew with a captain the other day who was ex Norwegian LH from LGW who brought me back down to earth slightly. My questions are as follows:

1) Is there a pension scheme?
2) Are W patterns still a theme at LGW? (I've read in this post that they no longer are, but is that 100% correct or is there still the occasional one?)
3) Is there a salary scale with increases per year/s of service?
4) What is the likelihood of getting your preferred base if successful in interview? (For me, LGW)

Thanks

[Luke258]

Hi guys,

A couple of questions regarding the contract - I've been umming and arring about applying recently having totally lost all confidence in my current employers management and structure, however I flew with a captain the other day who was ex Norwegian LH from LGW who brought me back down to earth slightly. My questions are as follows:

1) Is there a pension scheme?
2) Are W patterns still a theme at LGW? (I've read in this post that they no longer are, but is that 100% correct or is there still the occasional one?)
3) Is there a salary scale with increases per year/s of service?
4) What is the likelihood of getting your preferred base if successful in interview? (For me, LGW)

Thanks
Hi,
I can answer you 3 and 4.
After three years in lgw you'll be switching to osm where you will get additional block hour pay above 65hr. Don't have the exact numbers in my head but it's quite a lot.
And getting lgw is no problem. Every new pilot starts there. I got two of my preferred bases already straight away.

[AROUNDGO]

Can anyone give some clues about the interview in LGW base for DEC 787?
many thanks.

[Icejock]

Won’t be any more DEC onto the 787.

[lansen]

For the time being, there won't be any more upgrade for new joiners in probably a long time now. As it looks like, Short Haul is trying to force themselves into Long Haul, claiming the master seniority list. They also try to change the PIC requirements, so basically a 737 captain can directly go onto the 787, even without any kind of experience on the 787 or for that matter any wide body long haul aircraft (or any aircraft in NAT/ETOPS ops) at all.

Stay away until things go back to normal here.

[Icejock]

So basically it works the same way as in many other airlines such as BA, LH, AA and so and so forth. The bitterness and supremacist expressions by certain Long Haul pilots the last few days has been quite tragic to see and hear.

[Smooth Airperator]

Ummmm, not quite. BA, LH, AA and so forth pilots are all employed directly by their employers with completely guaranteed career paths and single AOCs. Norwegian LH (and SH) pilots are employed by various agencies and according to various terms and conditions on various AOCs (the Brits getting the worst deal and the French the best). Experienced FOs have come here for a relatively quick command, a feat only possible by product of distinct AOCs and employment terms where LH and SH are deemed two separate entities. Why else would they be attracted to the lowest paying LH FO position in the world? Some of them now may not even see a Cruise Relief Captain position let alone a command for 5 years. It's not the airline they signed up to.

[Boeing 7E7]

[QUOTE. Some of them now may not even see a Cruise Relief Captain position let alone a command for 5 years. It's not the airline we signed up to.[/QUOTE]

Hahahahah! Brilliant! Every FO should get a command within 5 years - presumably because they deserve it/ it’s their right/ mummy says so... we all need to drink what you are drinking.

[Smooth Airperator]

Please climb down from your tree. No where did I say EVERY FO should get a command after 5 years. I'm talking about an opportunity/a shot/a crack at a command. The issue at hand is that the opportunity may no longer be there due to the company changing direction and favoring a group that was never part of the original equation. And it's not about status, it's about the bank balance. No one wants to be a LH pilot averaging a take home of £3,500 per month. Norwegian LH has mostly hired experienced FOs not 200 hours cadets!

[Smooth Airperator]

That's my doing actually FlipFlapFlop, he's innocent (I changed it). I wanted to make it sound more generic than a personal thing about me!

[cumulustratus]

Ummmm, not quite. BA, LH, AA and so forth pilots are all employed directly by their employers with completely guaranteed career paths and single AOCs. Norwegian LH (and SH) pilots are employed by various agencies and according to various terms and conditions on various AOCs (the Brits getting the worst deal and the French the best). Experienced FOs have come here for a relatively quick command, a feat only possible by product of distinct AOCs and employment terms where LH and SH are deemed two separate entities. Why else would they be attracted to the lowest paying LH FO position in the world? Some of them now may not even see a Cruise Relief Captain position let alone a command for 5 years. It's not the airline they signed up to.

Maybe I'm missing something, and please tell me If I have, but isn't this actually desirable? Shouldn't all pilots working with the Norwegian banner on the side of their ships have the same conditions and have mixable career paths? How is this detrimental to the pilot body at large? I understand that it can set back commands for right seat pilots, and that wasn't what they planned for when joining, but long term it would probably be healthier for everyone in aviation if this horrible mix of contracts and T&C's disappeared.

Edit: and also this thing about the UK branch having the worst conditions in an airline spread over Europe seems to be a recurring thing. Any of you UK guys ever stop to think about why that is, given you having among the highest costs of living?

My 2 cents would have something to do with Mrs. Thatcher...

[Piscator]

Won’t be any more DEC onto the 787.

Some still waiting in the pool since last year...

[Smooth Airperator]

I wholeheartedly agree, however many SFOs with 10+ years in the biz will be feeling pretty p***** off if they have to sacrifice themselves NOW for the horrible mix of contracts and T&Cs to disappear. Regarding your other question. We stop and think about it all the time.

[MaverickPrime]

Edit: and also this thing about the UK branch having the worst conditions in an airline spread over Europe seems to be a recurring thing. Any of you UK guys ever stop to think about why that is, given you having among the highest costs of living?

My 2 cents would have something to do with Mrs. Thatcher...

....because most British are too polite and chivalrous for the their own good. We as a culture seem to take whatever crap is thrown at us a bit like the deal we've been handed by the EU. The Greeks for example didn't go so quietly, neither do the French i.e yellow vest or unions.

[Meester proach]

Never join an airline of the promise of a quick command . Things change in a heart beat in this game. It seems to be a generation X thing .....this sense of entitlement to command.

[Piscator]

Never join an airline of the promise of a quick command . Things change in a heart beat in this game. It seems to be a generation X thing .....this sense of entitlement to command.

Agree completely.
Airlines can only make vague promises.
Carreers speed up or slow down due to the economy.
We had people flying as second officers for 8 years.
We’ve also had guys that got their longhaul command at age 34
I’m captain 777 (11 years) and 787 (3 years) for a major European legacy carrier.
Took me 18 years to get long haul command (at age 47) which I think is normal at a major airline.
After 10 years airforce (F16’s), 3 years copilot B737 and 15 years copilot B747-400 and ERF.
So all in all actually 28 years into my flying carreer😉

[Icejock]

This is what is so systematically wrong with the aviation business kn Europe. People join, in this case, Norwegian LH, on TC’s that aren’t great to believe they have been promised a quick upgrade so they go somewherebelse. The problem with that is that somewhere else will be **** in the end. On top of that they go a cry out on an anonomous forum about it and tell people to stay away when.

I do not belive that the majority of people bashing Norwegian here understands the work the pilot corps within Norwegian has done to have acceptable TC’s that we have, especially the agreements in Scandinavia. We actually went on a strike for 12 days in 2015 for the benefit of all future joiners and not get a single improvement in our own terms. It was to secure a fair and transparent system for all pilots joining Norwegian in the future. Then to have some new joiners come here and piss on that is quite irritable.

Today our colleagues in Spain are facing difficulties and that is the time to unite and help each other and stop being cry-babies.

[Banana Joe]

I'm hearing the CEO resigned? Still nothing on the news.

[iome]

I'm hearing the CEO resigned? Still nothing on the news.

The chairman according to FT (https://www.ft.com/content/88e1b604-4997-11e9-8b7f-d49067e0f50d)
[..The chairman of troubled low-cost carrier Norwegian Air has announced he will step down in May. Bjorn Kise, who has been chairman since 2010, said he will resign after the company’s annual general meeting..]

[cumulustratus]

True according to FT (https://www.ft.com/content/88e1b604-4997-11e9-8b7f-d49067e0f50d)
[..The chairman of troubled low-cost carrier Norwegian Air has announced he will step down in May. Bjorn Kise, who has been chairman since 2010, said he will resign after the company’s annual general meeting..]

So the chairman of the board, Bjørn Kise, will leave after the AGM.

That's not the same as the CEO, Bjørn Kjos, resigning.

[Norway West]

Rumour in financial news in Norway. 787 pilots.

[BluSdUp]

Interesting
How many 787 RR Dreadliners are still grounded World wide.
How many delivered
Anyone?

[Capt Flinstone]

One quick Advise ; STAY AWAY from NAS 787 !! ALL PILOTS

[Banana Joe]

What's going on?

[Meester proach]

Not having much luck with these RR products, combined with the 737MAX issues.
A massive pain in the ass.

[gtseraf]

Heard from a source that due to the ongoing RR engines, at any one time 4 787s will be grounded throughout the next 6 months. Wet lease being drafted in but effectively the operation is 4 aircraft worth of crews too heavy (pilots and CC). Every single B787 LGW based pilot (in other words those working for Norwegian UK Longhaul) have been given a bunch of options ranging from part time (month on/month off) through to 3, 6 or 12 month unpaid career breaks. Bidding process has commenced. If not enough interested people, then redundancies will be on the cards. Damn Boeing and RR for the mess they've created!

I am sure the airlines affected are being paid compensation by the manufacturers, I would also expect that a portion of the compensation should cover affected crew. Worthwhile getting some legal eagles to investigate this one.

[Smirf420]

Scandi media today reporting all US flight from CPH closing down after October 2019 and a bunch og other routes from Scandi and LGW.......

By the wording of the written in the media it looks like a total reset......

Hope for the best for the crews.....

[MonarchOrBust]

The compensation is not going to come over night and is probably not going to be in cash either.

The RR engined 787 will prove to be industry's greatest mistake.

[Meester proach]

Scandi media today reporting all US flight from CPH closing down after October 2019 and a bunch og other routes from Scandi and LGW.......

By the wording of the written in the media it looks like a total reset......

Hope for the best for the crews.....
source please ? These rumours do nobody any favours

[3Greens]

source please ? These rumours do nobody any favours

well, this is a professional pilots RUMOUR forum...

[Meester proach]

Indeed, but some gossip is more malicious,
and id be inclined to say the proportion of professional pilots to other , is fairly low these days

[A319]

Norwegian:

https://e24.no/boers-og-finans/norwegian-air-shuttle/norwegian-forbereder-langdistansekutt-fra-skandinavia-til-usa-til-vinteren/24619273

Danish:

https://insideflyer.dk/norwegian-fjerner-deres-direkte-ruter-usa-danmark/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

Google translate is your friend....

[Meester proach]

Norwegian:

https://e24.no/boers-og-finans/norwegian-air-shuttle/norwegian-forbereder-langdistansekutt-fra-skandinavia-til-usa-til-vinteren/24619273

Danish:

https://insideflyer.dk/norwegian-fjerner-deres-direkte-ruter-usa-danmark/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

Google translate is your friend....
Thanks.like it says though the winter programme is not finalised yet. Some of the reported LGW routes are seasonal anyway I think.

[Capt Flinstone]

your Soursce is confirmed TRUE

[lansen]

your Soursce is confirmed TRUE

Judging your recent posts, unemployment (or ever getting that first airline job :p) must be hard, Capt Flinstone :}

[Right Engine]

Come to BA. We’re short of 787 copilots! So much so, we’ve got a few 3 crew trips using heavy Captains.

[Meester proach]

A solution has been found to the slight overcrewing, which is favourable .

[Smooth Airperator]

And when do you think they might communicate this? So far it's been a mishmash of changes for some people people and not others with no option to accept or reject. A really bizarre way to handle someone's employment.

[BluSdUp]

Any update on the situation?
Stocks going down a tad lately and no Max this side of Xmass.
Are the 787 RR flying again, and if not how many grounded?

[Meester proach]

I don’t think anyone will answer that as it’s rather sensitive information.