Company's payrise response

[NoAndThen]

F*ck that! Bring on the CC.

And sorry GC, don't try to BS me with your flimsy reasons.

[SweepTheLeg]

This is starting to sound like a broken record...

Pay IS a standalone item.

The members have spoken... Contract Compliance

[RusCo]

Lame and weak.

Good faith my arse.

Still WATING on the basing announcement that was promised two weeks ago.

They are all full of it.

[kenfoggo]

Extraordinary!

That is what our best efforts are worth to the Company?

Nothing.

Nil per cent.

[dash4blind]

Backdate pay to a future date.

That's priceless. Where's my DeLorean...

At least no one else in the company just got a pay rise!!!!

[crewsunite]

Lets just do it!
Everyone yet again gets another 4.5% while we as always get 0% and more empty promises.

Enought! :ugh:

In honour of Nelson Mandela.

Carpe diem!

From today!

94% have spoken.

[sleepercell]

So once again we aren't worthy.

It's simple really.........work only when you have too.

Take what is yours and make sure you have a great Christmas.

Now is the time for you non-members, bludgers and yes men to on get on-board, enough is enough.

[letsfly75]

I thought I didn't care what was decided/negotiated on this because I was under the impression intelligent and rational people were at the helm. I was wrong.

[RusCo]

"Now is the time for you non-members, bludgers and yes men to on get on-board, enough is enough."

I am a member...but what do I gain from it? Actually I lose from it...my dues for nothing.

CC is a joke, it is what we should be ALWAYS do, period. Stronger action is needed, I have done it before would do it again.

Insult that all employees other than us get 4.5 % and we get squat.

[Jzt]

Fuel savings........ Um, negative.

[RusCo]

"Chill until after the holidays are over, and come mid January we can move forward"

YEAH RIGHT....

[China Flyer]

You fkn losers!

Last straw for me, I'm afraid. I have given and given and given to this AOA (and GC and many years of 5%), but the current GC's response is an insult.

I cannot believe you (the GC) have fallen for the company's claptrap - again!

Standby for my resignation letter. At least the SS club will benefit.

:(

[crewsunite]

Then configure & Spd break 20+mn out "safety" in CAVOK conditions to the last drop!

[Barronflyer]

Clear right I'm afraid you have completely missed the point dear chap. The Company have effectively said no to a pay rise unless coupled to further productivity increases. Read between the lines. Thus NO pay rise. They are simply saying they will give us more if we work harder…Thats a 0 percent raise

[sleepercell]

Chinaflyer

Dude, that's exactly what the company wants you to do. Keep an eye on the ball and remember who the enemy is.

Only do what you need to do and be patient.

[Peebee and Jay]

They have pulled the last teeth of the AOA. Time to add HK$1000 to my own budget thanks.

[Plover]

Time for a golfing week.

[twotigers]

I've decided two things today.
One I will not be doing my trip on the 22nd, effectively giving me all of the holiday period off.
Two I am leaving the AOA, and giving myself a raise.

This will hurt CX twice, in both preventing the company abuse of AOA to affect me, thus weakening their grasp, and by having to crew a Captain's slot during a busy period.

I suggest you do the same.

With the handcuffs off, the game becomes much fairer. I've just got 6 more full weeks of leave, I never fully took up, as well as a small pay raise.

What did you get? Zip.

[The FUB]

Let's start with no working G days, or even indicating those officers sitting next to you who are, no need to name, just the date and flt no, the rest is easy. Over 100 G day workers per week, mostly on the bus, predominately in the RHS. CNX flts or type changes due no crew will make a difference.

[Yonosoy Marinero]

Completely coincidentally, I forgot how to use that CORR RAMP figure again...

[Oval3Holer]

This proves that the AOA and the entire pilot group (members or not) has NOTHING with which to NEGOTIATE. The company called our bluff (which, as usual, it was) and the GC realized that we really have no power to do anything to force the company to give us something it doesn't want to give us in trade for something else.

Reality is HERE. Face it!

[sirhcttarp]

Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association President writes...
"However, there is also a clear, transparent requirement on the part of the Members that a standalone, interim solution be negotiated this year regarding Pay. This requirement has been outstanding for over five months now and must thus take precedence over completion of the Good Faith Bargaining Framework.

I therefore ask for your assurance that Pay will constitute a major part of the discussions on 19 November as I have previously requested. Any failure to discuss Pay earnestly at that meeting, with a view to agreeing on an interim solution before the Christmas break, could only be viewed as a failure on the part of the Company to respond adequately to our repeatedly stated concerns."

So when company comes back with 0% change to pay, and any change to pay will be back dated by 4 months, and the GC agrees and withholds CC before Christmas, what stops the company from saying 0% payrise on Jan 6th, which can be backdated 4 months or maybe out of their generosity they'll even say we can backdate it by 4 years!

Name and shame those on the GC who voted "yes" to the agreement!

[BillytheKid]

Do you AOA deserters also leave your country when politicians approve something which you are opposed!?

There are other mechanisms to change the AOA. No Confidence. I believe a motion has already been submitted. Stay and cast your vote, or leave and accept your fate.

[Threethirty]

When will you lot realise that the AOA is another tier of Cathay management. They are there to give the illusion that we have control through democratic means, we don't! It's a bit like politics you can pick a candidate but who selects the candidates put forward? Nothing will ever get better here, I've been here long enough to realise that now. It's not just Cathay but an industry wide problem, we are no longer valued it seems. Pilots exist to make a management class wealthy or so it seems.

[raven11]

"The Company wish us to suspend the current CC motion and continue with comprehensive "good faith" negotiations with meetings taking place tioday and during a week long session beginning 06 January"


So let me see if I understand this latest update from the AOA: The Company just announced a 4.5% pay raise - across the board - for ALL other employee groups and has offered the pilot group a 0% pay rise backed dated to a future date….?

Am I the only one who grimaced and twisted in his chair while reading this? I don’t think that even Shakespeare could come up with such tortured logic in a tragic story line!

This is jut plain embarrassing, and I’ve grown weary of it.

At the same time that I receive almost constant entreaties from the Company to go the extra mile, to sharpen my pencil, to be even more efficient and shave fuel figures to a bare bone minimum, my reward for this – my thanks - is to see all other employee groups receive their usual recognition, and lavish praise, while the pilot body receives another slap in the face.

Well since the current GC doesn’t seem to understand how to react to insulting gestures, let me give them an example:

The GC has until January 15th…which follows their week long, good faith, comprehensive, negotiating session…to demonstrate that they can deliver at least a reasonable return on the value of my monthly dues…or I will tender my resignation.

There is no point continuing on like this. As I said, this is embarrassing. I don’t want to be a part of it any longer.

[badairsucker]

Raven,

Very well said sir!
:ok:

[Barronflyer]

Utterly Pathetic

Ladies and Gents please don't focus all your anger and frustration towards the timing of this "lack of increase". This issue of a pay rise was supposed to be a STAND ALONE increase. Not only did other work groups receive their 4% increase, they were NOT asked to work harder for it.

We are being told we MAY only see a productivity based increase.

This increase, long overdue, is NOT to be linked to RP's etc.

A 4% stand alone raise certainly wouldn't keep us ahead of inflation but as an interim deal it might have been less insulting to this pilot group..

Terrible….

[Oval3Holer]

This GC admits, through its statements and actions, the TRUTH that the AOA has absolutely NO POWER. NONE. ZILCH!

I think they are the smartest group of guys ever to be GC members.

Now, about all those dues they've been collecting over the years, promising that our unity will get us somewhere...

[plainpilot11]

Vote with your feet. Leave in droves. It is actually the ONLY thing that has an effect on management's decisions. Stop whining. Stop groveling. Stop complaining. Stop whimpering. Stop screaming foul.

Yes, it appears corruption is there at all levels, even those that claim to be for the pilot body. It is a world-wide aviation problem. Teamsters, ALPA, and AOA.

Write a letter. Give them three months. And leave.

[GANKER]

HA what a joke , but when has it not been?

[PanZa-Lead]

I won't be shutting down any more engines
good bye "fuel policy"

[Synchronize]

Okay why wait for the GC who have failed us yet again . The company have clearly indicated the distain they hold us in so:
Stop all your bitching and start acting on your own

I'm not waiting my CC starts now
What is the one thing that accountants understand? MONEY !
What is the biggest operating cost that we have control over ?
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out some very novel strategies to demonstrate the cost of goodwill .
Technical delays sit back and let the engineers sort it out
Simply take your time don't ever be rushed go when you are ready
There are so many things we can do with just a little thought

GDO workers, no sectors , no J/S .

It's time to get creative and become cohesive , I don't care if you are in the AOA or not they have become redundant Think and act for your rights for once

Why do you think the Cabin Crew got a pay rise ? Because the company is sh..t scared they will go out on strike .They have done it before
We have never had the guts to do it, and have a core of pilots who are frightened of their own shadows and would never consider any kind of action
Well perhaps degraded conditions and pay have forced them to grow a backbone but I have grave doubts
Happy Christmas to all of you Perhaps you can explain to the kids that you couldn't afford the present they wanted because you didn't get a pay rise

[Flap10]

Have you guys become so greedy over money that you've utterly lost the plot:ugh: Who gives a f&*k about some stupid payrise??? You think an extra 4% is gonna make a world of difference here at CX??? What about rostering and the constant abuse to our rosters. There are so many outstanding issues that can have a greater impact on our lifestyle than a measly payrise but nobody makes a fuss. :mad::mad::mad:.

[Bob Hawke]

Syncro's got it right,

THE POWER OF ONE.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t76/Satyrblade/defiance_mouse_eagle.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/Satyrblade/media/defiance_mouse_eagle.jpg.html)

Just do it!

[Oval3Holer]

Flap10, why don't you just retract yourself to Flaps UP!

[positionalpor]

Few years back AA pilots were doing some sort of CC for the same reasons.
The "maximum" taxi speed was 10 Kts.......

[boxjockey]

Few years back AA pilots were doing some sort of CC for the same reasons.
The "maximum" taxi speed was 10 Kts.......

We had the same. Wheels turned like the hands of a clock. There is plenty that you can do to pinch. Should go without saying.

box

[Scoreboard]

Seriously we are being played to extend so they get thru the holiday season. Sorry the GC could have come back got a flat 4.5% pay rise and no conditions then start negotiations afterwards.




But no...fooled again.




Seriously just start a thread of the GC wont do something then just start a trash thread so CX management see numbers going up wards of their fuel savings going south. sick days start climbing.....discretion?sorry come again no more discretion....ground staff asking for jump seats? go buy a ticket you aint ever seeing a jump seat again from one cockpit crew.

[Synchronize]

Flaps 10
I agree but unless you pressure the company nothing will ever be done
At least the pay rise seems to have upset enough people that perhaps a majority will now start playing their part
Look at the newsletters praising our fuel saving efforts well let's stop that and add some more when we feel like it that in itself will send a message especially if everyone plays their part

[Synchronize]

Box and Bob
You both have good points , all it takes is a bit of thought to achieve a noticeable difference
Think about 1 raindrop ! no effect
5 to ten raindrops turns your attention to the skies
A deluge makes you find an umbrella and or seek shelter
The deluge continues flooding occurs damage and loss are the result

So that is what we need to achieve to show what we are worth
A torrential sustained downpour that results in a flood with losses

One is useless, but all of us combined will make a big impact

[VR-HFX]

Now now boys and girls

I'm all for burning more gas but that is bad for the environment.

A quick look at the hub scheduling at CLK will show that the Achilles Heel is the tight connections for many many key routes.

Nothing like a few thousand missed connections a day to focus the bean counters. I am really surprised that all the young and clever haven't worked this out. Hotels, luggage delivery etc...it is very very expensive when pax miss connections.

CC is one thing but if you really want to hit them where it hurts at home base it is delayed arrivals and adherence to on time departures.

The one thing thing that has not changed in the past 30 years is that the company hands out what it wants to those that they think deserve it. There never was and never has been a squeaky wheel syndrome although Becky did have their measure.

My vote is to appoint Becky as head of the AOA. At least she knows who has the balls and how to kick them....and she is available.

[spannersatcx]

Scoreboard, not sure we did to upset you but how is denying ground staff a jumpseat helping? Yes you have a beef with the company but pissing off all the other staff, not sure how that helps. Remember the pay rise statement is for HKG staff not those of us in the outports. We also get what we are given, I can safely say it won't be 4.5%

[Bob Hawke]

VR,
HKG ATC do a damn good job at that. We can screw up approaches fairly early and with the helpful assistance of HKG ATC we can can do it better. Well perhaps not, but at least we can proactively help them to help us not to be on time.It all helps fuel savings and on ward connections. It's a team effort. We are a team. Let's help the team, the same way our management team helped us. Go team, go!

[Synchronize]

Well if nothing else this has united the aircrew body

I agree with spannertax why penalize ground staff over J/S it's not their fault
However G day workers that's a different matter because they are working against your best efforts

[Scoreboard]

Its pretty easy why the ground staff should suffer....why cause they have to remember who actually makes the wheels turn. Sorry but there is far too many managers and ground staff that are completetly full of how important they are when they are actually not.


hell even had an ISM crow how she felt she was more important than the pilots...I mean seriously like the plane doesn't move without a pilot but I don't need an ism to fly....just one cabin crew member per door.

[sleepercell]

Spannersatcx

One of the reasons that we don't get pay rises when the rest do, is that management has painted us in such an awful light, the other departments despise us, they have created a political environment that makes it difficult for us to get anything without mass resentment. Yet they will sit behind us in a jumpseat as they have choice, hating us and every second that they need to put up with us.

I will never ever give a jumpseat away to anyone who isn't cockpit crew or, if they don't want it, then cabin crew........and this mess has hardened my resolve.

Why? Because I can control who sits in my cockpit, period. It staggers me that there are captains out there who will give priority to ground staff over cockpit crew.

I have seen a ground staff's 13 year old daughter given priority over a senior captain by some twit.

You are not pissing ground staff off dude, they hate you anyway.

[nitpicker330]

Mmmmmmm.

1/ you don't know the age of the person requesting the JS
2/ the Captain may have allocated the jump seat a long time before the Crew member requested it.

Having said that I'm more and more less inclined to give it anyone other than crew or family of crew.

[sleepercell]

Mmmmmmm......

Let's see.
1. The captain missed out and the girl had the J/s and I asked her how old she was???
2. So what? Change the priority if that is the case, either on intracx or ring CC if it's closed.

Not sure why you are inferring I'm making this up??

[744drv]

1. So you are going to ask the girl how old she is and then throw her off the flight!!
2. It is very poor form to give someone J1 and then take it away. It's like saying "sure I'll make sure you get on the flight" and then after they make plans hinging on this you turn round and say "sorry changed my mind"

[Trafalgar]

Simple solution. Never allocate J1 to anyone but cockpit crew. Leave it open right up until the flight.....then you can allocate to a last minute pilot applicant. If there are none, then J2 becomes J1 by default. Why would any Captain use anything other than this procedure...? :ugh:

[nitpicker330]

So, by that reasoning if you requested my JS for your wife then I should give her J2 ?? I bet that would make her happy when she found out your policy....!!

Oh but it's different then isn't it ......:=:D

[iceman50]

Trafalgar / sleepercell

Because of attitudes like yours we will have our ability to allocate or use jump-seats removed!!

Think before you post your selfish drivel.:ugh:

[boxjockey]

Trafalgar gets it. Just that simple.

box

[monster330]

Spot on. J/S only go to cockpit crew or their family. Very occasionally to a CC for flights where cockpit crew just don't go.

Like mnl.

No one else. Ever. That includes rejecting managers request several times.

Trafalgar. Spot on 100%

[Trafalgar]

Iceman. Help me a bit here. How exactly am I being 'selfish'? If the captain leaves J1 empty, then it is always available for the needs of cockpit crew. Ok, if a Captain calls another Captain and asks for the J1 for his wife, then fair enough, probably go with that one. Other than that, my suggestion guarantees that you and the rest of my colleagues have first priority. As for having the discretion removed, doubtful. By allocating J2, i'm still 'allocating' the JS....so tell me, what is wrong with that. I'm really bewildered by the adjective you've used.

[nitpicker330]

What about the Captains son? "Probably go with that one too"?

It's not only Pilot commuters that like the comfort of having a J1.

Anyway more important things to mull over now.

[ETOPS240]

Tread carefully please, comrades.

Let's just leave this topic off the public domain. Commanders discretion over J/S allocation is just that, no justification needed. Commanders; do as you wish, but please don't publish your results. Such discussions have caused certain other large, expat-heavy airlines to withdraw the privilege. Don't think for a second that it can't happen to us. Given the number of commuters we have, such a change would be extremely bad news. I don't commute, but I am hugely appreciative of the safety net provided by the J/S when returning from holidays.

Naturally, I don't think we need to furnish anyone with acceptable etiquette guidance when calling upon a colleague for such a favour. Let's use the system, respectful of the policy - discretion.

As it stands, we, as aircrew, should be happy with the current arrangement. As such, may I recommend not drawing attention to it? As Curtain Rod says, there are bigger fish to fry.

[Yonosoy Marinero]

I'm really hoping the GC knows something we don't.

In fact, that's the only hope I have left.

I'm still preparing the rotten tomatoes for the 'night of shame', though.
Oh, I'll focus alright...

[spannersatcx]

well thanks for the responses, it's good to know where we stand!
Scoreboard, don't forget that without some of us, those wheels may just not be turning, but at least I know where I stand.:sad:

[ETOPS240]

Spanners, don't get too wound up. In my experience at least, most of us tend to view all of the operationally front-line coworkers as being part of the same team, and afford any available courtesies as such.

Remember the lions share of posters on here are pretty disgruntled, and consequently self-centred and looking out for number one at the expense of all else. Not to pretend that morale is at a high point out in the real world, but the bulk of us do realise that we are all in it together.

[Trafalgar]

Spanners. Just to clarify, I think very highly of the engineering staff...particularly the line supervisors (the SA boys and such). If one of them asks for a JS....it's theirs. We know whom our enemy is...and it's not the guys who keep the planes flying. :ok:

[Synchronize]

Spannertax

I for one will do everything I can to award a J/S to one of the engineering staff if and when they request it . so please don't think that a few posts here are indicative of the majority of the aircrew
We for the most part, are one team so if we can help each other then great we do appreciated the work you do to keep us safe so please don't hesitate to ask should you need a favour Chances are you will find someone more than willing to help

[Captain Boers]

Sad to see this bickering but then satisfying to know that nothing has changed.

Guys, heed the sages on this thread - the seats on the aircraft belong to CX. It is our privelege as Captains to 'give away the Jump seat'. I fully agree with the concept that the flight deck is flight crew territory and that it is flight crew who determine if others enter that territory or not (save for regulatory checks etc etc).

However, CX can, and may, just abolish J/S for leisure travel. So be careful what you do guys. This is not a new idea.

Everyone can read your posts, none can read your mind. Get it!!

All the best guys.

[Shoebox]

http://turntherightcorner.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/the-hunger-games-catching-fire-teaser-trailer-salute.jpg

[spannersatcx]

I'm cool with it, thanks guys, good luck with whatever lay ahead. :ok:

[Some How I'm Tired]

Spannersatcx,

You can always have J1 on my flights. Don't let a few hot heads wreck your opinion of the majority.

Cheers

[Hellenic aviator]

I just don't understand why the AOA allows management pilots to be part of the membership. :ugh:

Aside from that, spannersatcx you'll get J1 on my flights :ok: Don't let some of these previous posts convince you different. We value what you guys do for us :ok:

[twotigers]

Because the AOA comm is controlled by management.

[nitpicker330]

Management Pilots are only "honorary members" if they chose to join and do not have any voting rights.

This is my understanding????

[Booger]

Because the AOA comm is controlled by management.

Spoken like a true ignoramus. Look forward to your nomination on the next GC. Disregard, that would require you actually getting off your @rse and helping out.

[twotigers]

God you're dense. You simply are unable to comprehend the situation.
Its a foreign language to you.

[Max Reheat]

Fac6

I sympathise.

But why not then just politely ask for her name and tell her you will report this…?

She'll get off her @rse then.

She wouldn't hesitate to report you if the roles were reversed.

[ASH1111]

Or waiting to commute home from HKG, 25 open biz class, and make me wait till 35 min before departure for a seat. If not for my HKID, I would never make it through customs.

HKG staff travel...Boo!

[SMOC]

They just don't get it, being polite is foreign to them.

I arrived around 1:15 before departure, sat in the cue for 20min while the staff did as above, bugger all, finally got to the counter handed over my passport it was now 55min ETD and she took great pleasure in telling me I'd have to go to the bottom of the seniority list I explained I'd been in the cue 20mins to which she said basically bad luck.

The best bit, we discussed this for a few minutes and at the end she said you're on, it's open. Why even mention bloody seniority if I was on FFS!!!

[nick murry]

CC just requested 4 day GDO call out. Sorry.. Signs of desperation ? Keep it up boys

[flyhardmo]

Silberfuchs check your PM

[Killaroo]

Fac6

I sympathise.

But why not then just politely ask for her name and tell her you will report this…?

She'll get off her @rse then.

She wouldn't hesitate to report you if the roles were reversed.

Max - you'd be wasting your time. It's the same at every big airline. Those Check-In Staff have Managers who set the tone, and the tone is "FD - pixx off".

If you 'report' a checkie to your Manager, their Managers will defend them to the hilt, and your Manager will genuflect and apologise for your behaviour, and you'll be dragged up for tea and bikkies, and told how important the check-in staff are, and how busy they are, and how dare you disturb them, be a good boy or else ....etc etc.
Been there done that.
Same ****e everywhere.