My dream - advice please (collective thread)

[pilotflyingrocks]

Hi Andy,

In terms of the best way to start flying is as you say, go and get some lessons from your local club and start working towards your PPL (A), not the microlight as I'll explain. This will allow you to get some advice and you'll learn what the different types of licenses and rating all mean, and what you need. But more importantly it will allow you to see if flying is really for you and how much you actually enjoy it. I understand what its like when researching all of this and not being able to work out what it all means.

The question I'd have for you is what sort of pilot you want to become? Recreational, instructor, bizjets, airline? There are many ways to achieve all of these. If it's commercial flying you want then don't bother with the microlights as that time wont count towards your CPL, so its kind of a waste of money aside from the fun factor.

The cheapest option is the modular route and will cost ~£60K. This is done by building on licenses ratings and experience and is generally more flexible. You will get PPL, night rating, build hours, ATPL theory exams, CPL, multi engine and instrument rating. Also an MCC if you want to fly multi crew. All of this is whats known as a fATPL. There is the more expensive integrated options where it's all done in one package. Integrated normally costs at least £100k. Have a look at the integrated vs modular thread.

Good idea to try and apply to the BA/Virgin cadetships however they are highly competitive, but you do have a job waiting for you at the end. It's also a good idea to have a bit of flying experience when you apply for these, even if its only a few hours, it shows good motivation.

Also I would recommend getting your class 1 first, as you don't want to spent tons on training only to find you cant get the medical at the end.

Just my thoughts, feel free to message :8

[IssacSigoyi]

i am a high school student in China and being a pilot is always my dream. But my left eye has a eyesight of 250. So can i still become a pilot?
What about learning flying in foreign country likes Canada, usa? And what about the learning fee?
i'll be very thankful if there is some one to provide me advice
Thanks!

[KayPam]

First things first, you should go to your local airclub and get your derriere in a light piston aircraft : you'll see if it's for you !

[FlyANA]

I'm on the virgin cadet scheme and we do have a few guys who took this same route. They got PPLs, got hours up to around a hundred whilst doing other jobs and then joined the scheme in late twenties/early thirties. So its a good sensible plan.

[andyc1988]

Pilotflying rocks, KayPam and FlyANA thank you for your replies. I've been on a block of shifts at work so could not reply sooner.

I only just realised that the administrators have moved my post into this merged thread which is ideal as I can now browse the entire thread when I get chance.

Pilotflyingrocks.
Thank you for your reply. My intent (if all goes well) is commercial passenger airline flying, at the moment I'm thinking long-haul will be my preference but can see the benefits of short-haul too. My understanding is that most have to start short-haul for take-off/landing experience.

My "local" club which is a mere 5 miles away is a microlight one, albeit with fixed wing microlights available. I will research my nearest club that offers lessons in light aircraft and visit them for an orientation and a trial lesson. The main reason I considered a microlight as a first step was because it would be cheaper per hour than a Light Aircraft to continue as a hobby if I did not progress to commercial flying, however it appears I could still buy/fly a fixed-wing microlight based on a PPL(A) licence for the "fun" aspect. If it doesn't build hours then it does seem to be wasted money at this stage.

I researched the modular vs integrated schemes, however being realistic I don't think either route is affordable for me on an effective timescale without the use of finance, for which I would likely need to utilise the cadet pilot scheme's guarantor provision. I discovered that applicants that spread their modular training over several years do not have much success applying to the larger, long-haul and higher-salaried airlines when compared to those who took integrated courses.

I'm under the impression that I should learn and hour build for leisure whilst applying to the cadet schemes.

The Class 1 medical is of course a very good idea to obtain first!

KayPam: Thanks, that's exactly what I plan to do and I'm quite looking forward to it :).

FlyANA: Thanks for your confirmation that others have followed a similar path. I am very keen to know more about the Virgin cadet scheme but I'll browse the forum some more before asking direct questions.

I've downloaded a couple of phone apps that cover PPL theory test subjects and so far the majority of what I'm reading is sinking in first time, probably because I find it genuinely interesting. Hopefully a positive sign of things to come :8.

Thanks again.

[HeronsClimb]

Hello Pprune,

Firstly, I'm not going to blabber on about my dream, I would just like some good solid advice on what I can do with my current situation and if you do read all of this I appreciate the time taken out of your day.
I'm 19 years old (20 in august), and Im pondering picking back up the goal of flying for a major airline (and overcoming all the hurtles that come with trying to reach that point).

I hope you excuse me, but just background info on myself. I left Sydney when I was 15 ( a year after my first TIF) to come to a specialty aviation high school in Perth without my parents (which I dropped out of) after passing the entry test with only two incorrect answers of the 35 questions.

I made the choices on my own, I found the school on my own, and I taught myself the knowledge required (could have passed that test at 12) but I'm just trying to show that the determination box is ticked( and I know dropping out may sound otherwise but conflicting situations forced me to and leaving your home at 15 is not an easy task) while hopefully not sounding to obnoxious. Moving on I'm also considering doing an online degree as I do work fulltime and I'm not 100% sure but I'm getting the jist that this is acceptable by the airlines(can anyone confirm who has a job and did an online degree??) I'm currently earning 40k a year and I'm hoping this might just, just be enough to pay for hours on top of living expenses.

The biggest question which will stir up the mix is "Best flight school" now I have no care in the world for what the admins are like,or if the owner has attitude. I just want my hours and an effective instructors in a cheap( I know that won't happen) and timely manner with a school that gets students into airlines. I know as I work full time this could set me back in time but I'm committed to work as hard as possible, and I really don't care about pay or living conditions as long as I can say I've made it. By which time id probably hate it, but I can say it's fulfilled and my life has been lived how I wanted.

Cheers guys

[Qtr Life Crisis]

You can get VET-FEE HELP for integrated flight training in Australia now. One of my mates left work last year to attend flight training adelaide and they are fee help approved at last check. Course overall isn't that expensive. If you earn 40k a year, have some savings, family who can spot you, or (like most young blokes back in Australia) have a fuel guzzling insurance nightmare of a car that you can sell you can probably go right on course.

Fee-HELP is under attack at the moment so talk to them early. Im not completely sure whats happening with it.

[MrWingNut]

Would anyone leave a secure 110k job doing something you enjoy with many benefits to take a place on a CTC type scheme?
I'm considering doing just that. Complete with enormous loan, 18 months of no salary and then a massively reduced standard of living from that which I'm used to. Along with 9 years of loan repayments. Am I crazy? Family and friends think so. Early thirties. I won't bang on about how this has always been my dream etc... Thanks guys and good luck to all.

[Basil Fawlty1]

I would, but I would save up some dosh first so you can make the leap without the loan. You earn 110k, so this shouldn't be too hard. Oh and try and keep your toe in the water with your previous career so you've got a plan b in case it doesn't work out for you. Good luck !

[jamesgrainge]

Absolutely. If you have a ppl already?

[jamesgrainge]

Phew. Why don't you give it up if you don't like it?

Personally, and only personally, the question, would I rather work in a shop for £7.50 an hour, or would I rather fly the world for £7.50 an hour, can only be answered one way. For some of us it is more than simply a job.

[MrWingNut]

Thanks for the answers guys. Good to see two totally different opinions. Council Van I was thinking more along the lines that you are. I have money and plenty of time off to go flying as I wish. Would I be happier becoming an airline pilot? Probably! But thats the million dollar question..I don't know. Every job becomes just a job doesn't it.

[jamesgrainge]

The fact he has even considered it must tell you someone though. Personally, if he earns that salary I would simply save up and go Modular, then even if he hates it by the end of CPL it's an experience, he has an IR so can fly anywhere (within reason) and can continue working at his current role. Not many of us can say we are in that kind of incredible position to be able to do so. I enjoy my job, I would still fly even for the current 40k I earn now given the choice. Please don't discourage people based on your perspective of a job you aren't too fond of anymore.

[MrWingNut]

A tiny bit more detail.. It definitely wouldn't be £7.50 with Wizz. It's an established cadet route into a long haul airline. The pay still starts very low obviously but longer term is certainly nothing to complain about. Modular may well be the better route regarding finance and overall enjoyment. As well as burning no bridges etc.

[nici22]

Hi everbody,

I’m searching for a good flight school in the US for the summer months July and August. I want to do my PPL (A). I read a lot about a few flight schools and the wise advice to go to the part of the US where less tourism is.
I just wonder which states (and maybe flight schools) you recommend because of the summer weather. I guess I have to avoid Florida. I only get 6 weeks off working to achieve my goal.

[MrWingNut]

Sorry.. My post wasn't clear. I meant it's not £7.5 and it's not Wizz. It's a UK LH airline. Your view is still valid though! It's probably less than Wizz after loan repayments!

[Thegreenmachine]

There is another thread on this where a lot of this is answered. A 30 second summary...
Local students mainly go home, guys from far afield or abroad will stay weekends.
Best to ask the school about where the training is done. You would need a very good reason to not go where they ask you to go.
If you bring packed lunch and live frugally I'd say £50 a week could be done fairly comfortably, not including lodgings. If you eat well, go out once in a while and go for a few drinks after exams, travel home etc, bump that up accordingly.
Starting salary is a bit of an unknown depends on which country you will be based in, 25-40k at a very loose guesstimate(?)
I understand bases will be assigned towards the end of the course, depending on the needs of the business.

[tom775257]

MrWingNut. From the little you describe of your position I would personally recommend to keep your current job and use the money to fly GA as a hobby which, in my opinion, is much more fun. See how much money you would lose in loss of earnings / 'enormous loan' in the years until you get your command and can match you current salary (that is if you have the aptitude for command in the end).. think about how much amazing GA flying that could buy.

Jamesgrainge. I think you have to cut commercial pilots who have become jaded some slack. I suspect the kind of personality that pushes themselves to become a pilot be it PPL or ATPL always looks for new challenges in life. I used to see it in PPLs who would rapidly give up flying after taking their friends/families for a few local flights. Once you have achieved whatever you wanted to for many it becomes boring. Airline flying is very regimented and rightly offers little room for 'having a bit of fun' thus not particularly interesting after a fairly short period of time. I see many disinterested senior FOs awaiting command who have run out of challenges. Add onto this constant exams and airlines regularly in crisis/job uncertainty you can perhaps see why people are sometimes hesitant to recommend it to someone with a high paying, secure, enjoyable career.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

[MrWingNut]

tom775257 thanks for the time to write that. Appreciated!

[Qtr Life Crisis]

MrWingNut, I was in the same position you are with the seemingly small but realistically huge difference that my high paying Job was not enjoyable at all so I have just left and am about to start training again after stopping years ago. I did however save up quite a lot and am fortunate enough that I will have no debt on completion. So if you are earning that much and you aren't sure (which you don't seem to be asking on here) then save up some money while doing as advised above and do some flying. I did PPL,NVFR and ME/P and before I went overseas with work and stopped training but that was all I needed to know that I wanted to do it forever. There were just no jobs at the time so I waited for a while!! Good luck whatever you do!

[Qtr Life Crisis]

As for the having fun and being challenged bit, I agree with Jamesgrainge - I have no first hand experience as I am not a pilot yet - but one small note I might add on/ask about is something that I have observed with my pilot mates. There seems to be a lot of room for fulfilling those personal growth needs outside of the job isn't there?. Obviously the job has contact hour limits for safety but almost every pilot I know has a fair bit of time off and some crazy hobby that they are extremely skilled and invested in, or they are amazing parents to their kids (a fulfilling challenge I know about first hand). When I spent almost all of last year in a pretty awful desert with work without a single day off I would get emails from my pilot mates who (although they work very hard for not great airlines) sometimes forget that 8-10 days off a month is actually pretty amazing. I know that I am in no way qualified to talk and I know that these days off are necessary for work life balance and safety but sometimes I think pilots forget that most people in our developed countries are working 6 10 hour days a week for 10 days of annual leave a year and the same if not worse pay check!!

again not having a go at all! (especially as its the job I want more than anything), just observation based on conversation and research like reading that Wiz Link above. Ill just have to see how it goes in the long run!

[Clarkt]

Hello guys and happy new year! Found this amazing forum after looking for some advice with regard to a320 flare techniques, which I'm using on my study level simulator. After seeing multiple threads (and mostly those like this very one) I decided to join. I am 15 years old and I live in Greece. Being a pilot has been my dream since a very young age. My hobby is simulating real aircraft operations to the ultimate way. That's why I have invested in buying high quality simulators, which even impress real pilots. I am a top student and I have a good health but, I am looking for some advice when it comes to reaching the right seat. Money is an issue, I think is too unsafe as well to get an ATPL as soon as I finish school. So my questions are, are there cadet programms for EU citizens? Do you think it's worth it to do a job until the age of 30 and then get your ATPL? All answers and advice are welcome, thank you for reading.

[EGPF]

Hi, I'm new here.

I am a very keen to seat myself on the right seat of a commercial airliner and have done a lot of research but any help is very appreciated of.

So I am a year away from completing my secondary study and I believe I have two options:

Go to University
or
Do the EasyJet MPL or BA FPP (If the chance to is there)

Which would be really appropriate?

If I should go to university:
Is it a good idea to even take an aviation course, if it is, can you suggest a good aviation course for university that I should consider (particularly in Scotland).

Thanks for any help and tips, once again its really appreciated.

[harshmike]

The BA FPP is currently undergoing a review of how it works, so I wouldn't expect that vacancy to open anytime soon, however I would be confident of it opening whilst you are at university. The EasyJet MPL opens every autumn around the same time its a consistent guarantee; opens around the same time as the Virgin Atlantic and Qatar Airlines equivalents.


You have a lot of other options you could do your ATPL and then apply to the Jet2 Apprentice scheme or apply as a cadet to Ryanair.


University wise I don't know much about that, my best advice would be to a course you have a passion for and want to investigate further.


If you have never flown an aircraft I would suggest having a few flights from your local flight school or even go for your PPL, but you have to keep under 90 hours if I remember correctly to be eligible for the EasyJet MPL.


I would recommend getting your medical sorted, before you commit to anything.


Also, why not get Lockheed Martins Prepar3D and some study sim aircraft it will help you no end in understanding systems. Also if you get on the Vatsim network it will really improve your short term memory!

[KayPam]

Hello
I have very practical questions about European licensing, and English language proficiency.
I am training for the theoretical ATPL in France right now. My school says I have to take the theoretical exams in France. Ok.
After that, I plan on moving to another country for the practical training. I am still hesitating between possibilities ranging from ultra low cost to FTE Jerez or even Oxford/CTC (will depend on available funding), but there is a 99% chance I will train abroad.

What is the difference between a French licence and another European license ?
Does it change anything whatsoever to have a licence from another CAA than the one of one's country of residence ?
For instance, in the unfortunate event that I don't have a job after one year, and that I need to revalidate my IR-MEP, can I revalidate these ratings in France or do I have to travel abroad, again ?

I read in the FCL-55 that if a skill test was performed in English, it would serve as a language proficiency test. However, which level would this give ?
If I wanted a level 5 or 6, what would I need to do in addition ? (apart from being proficient of course)

[TakeOff321]

Hi, im new to this forum and wondering if you guys have any experience with aeros? im looking at doing the fast track zero to atpl course at aeros in Coventry

I have been thinking for sometime which route to take.... integrated or modular, aeros flight training (modular) or apply for a scheme through an airline, or CAA Oxford (Integrated) but my choice has been to go with aeros.
is that a good choice? is there a good chance joining an airline as a first officer soon as I have completed my atpl at aeros? or can it take time? what are the potential starting wage and max wage flying for an airline such as Ryanair, flybe, easyjet?

Sorry for all the questions, hope you guys can help

Thanks In advance!

[hobbit1983]

Go flying. Uni does not directly help. It's good to have a backup career; but at 9k a year?

[KayPam]

Hello
If you want to become a pilot, you should try to get inside an MPL programme ASAP

If this does not work, what are you going to do ? You can either train without a sponsor airline or go to uni. At 9k a year, I would hesitate before going there..
If you ended up going to uni, I would recommend a high paying field of study (research them).
A good aviation course will help, but not as much as a well paying job.

[Aluminium shuffler]

MPLs are very restrictive, tying you to your first airline. They tend to pay poorly, too, during cadetships, meaning that if you can stump up the cash, an ATPL course is financially better in the long run, as well as much more secure. MPL also prohibits the pilot working in a single pilot environment, precluding many sorts of flying job.

[andyc1988]

I read that the MPL can be converted into an ATPL after 1,500 flying hours, similar to the fATPL. Is this as easy as it is made out, or are there likely to be considerable costs involved? There isn't much information available on this online.

[KayPam]

Hello.

I am currently wondering the following :
I am studying distance ATPL in English with a French school.
I plan on not training for the CPL/IR/ME in France, I will most probably do that with an english (or at least english speaking) FTO.

Do I need to take and pass an english language proficiency test ?
If not, which ICAO level will a CPL/MEIR skill test in english give me ?

Thanks

[paulc95]

My situation is quite unique but my ambition and dream remains the same as many other people.

22 from the United Kingdom, and like many others I too dream of becoming an airline Pilot.

I only really discovered this desire of mine around a year ago, it's grown ever since and it's all I can see myself doing as a career now despite the fact that i'm currently studying a BSc degree in Computing. I plan to see the course through and graduate with first class honours as a nice paying back up plan, and it will also help in demonstrating I can work to degree level and achieve the best results.

I am however from a poor family, below the breadline and the family home is even under threat due to parents splitting and a father who is refusing to sell when my mother owns half. Sticky situation, but i'm in student accommodation, and my journey on my own into the world starts here...

After this degree I am willing to sacrifice what's necessary, relocate, do anything to make this dream achievable. I understand License modules and flight tuition, and the hours will total upwards of £100,000 which is what I don't have.

I plan on getting a first in University, touching up a few GCSE's to add to that, in Science and Physics, to apply to any and all Airline Sponsorship programs that may be taking on at the time in 2 years. This will therefore be a good application with good grades in GCSE, equivalent to 3 a-levels with a level 3 extended diploma in ICT, and then a first class honours in Computing. So I will try to maximise my chances that way.

I also plan on going for my Grade 1 medical at Gatwick in London before I graduate just to be sure I'm eligible.

My question is after giving a brief background about me is...

What are all the actions I could take towards becoming an Airline Pilot from now till I graduate? Who should I network with? What can I study in the meantime that will be beneficial to know to help when I finally study for my license.

How could I acquire the funds if I had to pay for a flight training program myself? What would you do to achieve this dream in my situation?

I'm willing to sacrifice 100% of my time and effort for this, and don't care how long it'll take me to become a first officer.

I'm mostly looking for advice on the best steps towards this dream given my financial circumstance, as I haven't got rich parents to put me through flight school.

This is something I really really want to do with my life, I know i'll love it.

I have also heard rumors of people going off to Africa for bush pilot courses and ending up getting hired after that, recommendations of the cheapest ATPL programs in whatever country would be welcome, as well as any airlines that are doing sponsorship's etc

Thank you.

[SeGMaN]

Hello everybody,

I am 26 years old, have bachelor degree, good command on English, lack of math and physique knowledge.

I always wanted to be a pilot but I didnt have enough economic condition, now I kinda have it at least for PPL, If I get the PPL by myself I will be able to convince my family to support me for further steps.

My greatest dream would be a pilot for Emirates someday.

I would greatly appreciate and value if you guys give me some advice.

First question, As I mentioned I am lack of math and physique knowledge, do you think it d be too much hard for me to keep up with classes.

Second, where can I get the best price and performance PPL course on earth.My budget 10-12k $

Thank you

[somedayillfly]

Hi SegMAn,

great that you want to pursue your life dream.

I don't have the experience myself, but I have heard from various pilots around the globe that Emirates isn't as glamorous as it looks at first sight. There's an interesting topic going on this very forum, which is a must-read if you're interested in flying for Emirates.

I would recommend to follow a course for math and physics. ATPL theory is not rocket science, but definitely challenging if you don't have the right knowledge.

You'll easily find a place where you can get your PPL for way under 10-12k. A couple flight schools in the States (don't have names) offer a PPL Course for just above 5000$.

As of your age: You're 26. By the time you got the right papers, you'll be 28. Won't say you're too old, but it's definitely something to ask around for.

Hope this helps a bit.

[SeGMaN]

Thank you somedayillfly, above 5000 sounds reasonable, about Emirates ,I dont know all details but it all depends on perspective and your country of origin i guess, i have so close people around me who are cabin crew for Emirates, they seem fine and I know pilots are provided so many benefits. If you pm me some school name, it d be much appreciated.

[Hustlerkid]

Hello all...
Am 22 year old now and currently holding a diploma in bank service from a uk distant education university.Am planing to migrate to uk looking for job and at the same time to start my career in aviation.
Am from a middle class family, i can only dream of being a pilot. so i decided to move to uk(As one on of my relative works thre in a private company) To find a job and start my aviation career.

As Atpl intergrated is very expensive am planning to choose a very long process for obtaing my Frozen ATPL. Here is what am planing to do after getting a medical certificate and goin through all tests.i need a proper suggetion or openions about it from you all.

1)first private pilot license(both theory and practical)

2)Night rating

3)Instrument rating

4)Multi engine rating

5)Multi crew operation rating

6)CPL theory/with Aviation English .

7)Cpl practical
8)instructor rating(to become an inatructor and build my flying hours)

9)ATPL Theory

This is what am planing to go for.

I know its a very long process and can take up to 3 years or more for it.And may be spending extra money too.But as i dont have enough money and not in a situation wre i can take a bank loan.
Ok..so here are my doubts.

1)in the above mention 9 steps is every thing choosed in the correct way that it is suppose to be?

2)did i miss any rating am suppose to take?

3)If i get a EASA issued license will i or what i should do if i want to apply for job outside europe.

4)Any suggetions for affordable and good quality  flying academy in uk?

5)Do uk provide education/student loan to an expat student(i mean a student from outside europe)
6)what is Type rating and in what should i get a320 or boeing? At what satge i should be obtaing my Type rating?

7)what is line training?

8)Majority of the airlines prefer to hire pilots with atleast 1500 to minimum 3000 hours.So how can i build my hours.

9)At last how long will i take to complete these as its its budget build plan.and how much will it coast an average in total.
Is it  goin to be expensive than intergrated ?

Thanks in Advance.

[KayPam]

Hello
Not all answers for now but :
9) ATPL theory is usually done just after PPL and night flying. It is actually a prerequisite to have passed theoretical exams before IR and CPL training. You could take IR theory and CPL theory but nobody does that. There must be a very good reason why.

6) A type rating is a specific training to fly on a specific aircraft. Every large aircraft or aircraft family (such as 318/319/320/321) has a specific type rating. I would recommend paying for a type rating not before you're hired for a job and you're 100% certain you'll fly and be paid thanks to that type rating

7) Line training is the usual training you get when you first start working for an airline. It consists in a few tens of hours (up to 100 I think) and flights during which you'll be trained in order to become a fully autonomous first officer.
Some disreputable companies will sell you block of hours, which they call line training as well, but it is essentially P2F : pay to fly, which also means pay to work.

8) You need to get a job to get your first 500 hours on large aircraft. You need 500 hours on large aircraft to get a job. No easy solution. A few airlines will however consider your application with little hours (Wizzair for instance)

[pominaus]

Hi all, I've been reading these forums for about a week now, so just wanted to say thanks for all the great info - I've already learned a lot. The point of this post is just to put down in writing and commit to my dream. I'm thinking it will probably take me around 6 years to be able to switch careers, but I'm treating this post as my first step.

I'm 31.5 years old, from the UK now living in Australia. For me, the dream started in my early teens. I'd grown up with my grandfather's stories of being a navigator in the RAF in the war, but had never thought about it. In secondary shool I joined the RAF cadets. This is where it really began. We were an inner-city school in south London in the 90's. Nobody had much money, so we qualified for an RAF scheme where you could fly for free. It cost £2 to go on the trip - £1 for petrol there, £1 for petrol back, just be at the school at lik 6am on a weekend lol.

For that reason most of us didn't want to go, but my dad made me. For £2 I flew for an hour and I was hooked. We got to do aerobatics as well as flight training. Over the next three years I got about 18 hours under my belt (I think - it's been 16 years!), mostly in the then new Grob Tutor's. I was going to be a pilot. Then I found out at 15 years old I had just ticked over into too tall (6'4''). It was over.

I'd never really wanted to fly in a war, I struggled with that a lot... the RAF had always just been the route to commercial flying that was open to me. When it shut there was just no way flying could even hope of being paid for, and that was it. Since leaving school I've worked mainly in hospitality and retail, flying was just a dream I had as a kid.

Over the last few year's I've been studying computer science in my spare time using online courses. I've also gotten married and moved to my wife's country, Australia. Now my circumstances are changing. I'm moving into a new field (Developer) that will actually pay enough for me to save, and in 3 year's I'll qualify for a FEE-HELP loan that I could use to become a commercial pilot. From almost nowhere, the dream is back alive!

So the plan: As I say, I think this is going to be at least 6 years. The next year will just be saving and researching everything I can. Then two years Of saving and flying as much as I can afford. I'd like to get my RPL and be on my way to my PPL in this time. By the fourth year I should know a lot more, and know whether financing myself through my CPL or taking on a flight course (and around A$90,000 in student debt) is the right choice for me (This would be the first year I'd be eligible for FEE-HELP). Either way, I'd be looking at 2 years to get my CPL, from which I'd want to head toward instructing. Currently, to help me towards that goal, I'm planning to support myself through the 2 full time years of CPL and instructor training by becoming a part time driving instructor. I think that would easily fit around the hours, and help me develop soft skills that I could use to get an instructor position that's closer to home.

Phew, that's it. That's my promise to myself. It'll be a long time until I'm flying for an airline, but for the first time in half my life it actually looks possible. Wish me luck :O

[The Scud 911]

Hello everyone. I'm not really sure if I will be able to make myself clear but I'm glad there's a place like this where I can ask such a question. Any kind of input will be appriciated.

So, my dream of being a pilot and the passion for aviation began more than 10 years ago. A lot has happened up to now that I'm 22 and I still wish to go into the industry. The only thing that's holding me back is my general lack of confidence in everyday life and low self esteem. This cases me to lack focus, clearity, assertivness and I'm also easily persuaded. As I was finishing high school the realization came to me that if I were to show up at the airline interview with personal traits such as these I would most likely be rejected. Spending tens of thousands of euros to be told that made me honestly scared so I quietly backed off in a hope to find career in engineering. As I entered university my thirst to aquire knowledge and prove myself was so big that I made too big goals for myself. This mae me overwhelmed and unable to make a plan to achieve all that.

I might be going off the track here but as my education is coming to an end I'm unsure of being content in a career as an engineer. I keep noticing myself checking out airplanes and admiring them. However, in all these years at university my confidence hasn't changed. Sure I changed but just as I gained some confidence in certain parts I lost it in others.

I guess what I'm looking for is an advice if it's still worth a shot. Can I still change myself so that I, myself, would feel confident going to an interview and stepping inside of a cockpit?

[pominaus]

I might be going off the track here but as my education is coming to an end I'm unsure of being content in a career as an engineer. I keep noticing myself checking out airplanes and admiring them.

Hi there! I'm just starting out myself, so I have no wise words of aviation experience, but I have just completed my 20's, so I can give more general advice about finding the right path for you if that helps :)

I think what's important to remember is that you're 22 - you have a lot of time on your side, so it's not something you need to feel pressuring you right away. You're in a good place - you have a fair idea what interests you and you've just earnt a very useful and sought after degree. I also think it's normal to have a lot of doubts coming out of studies - when I was at university we used to call it 4th year blues (university was 3 years, so it's the uncertainty at the end of it) and it affected lots of us. There's also no way to really know where your engineering degree will take you. My father in law studied electrical engineering in the 70's, and was always thinking he'd get an office job somewhere like the post ofice and work his way up to a senior position and a good pension. What actually happened was he went to a job fair after graduation and got a job with a Swedish company called Ericsson. They were known for being good at making phones, so he thought "office, design phones, work way up". Actually he spent most of the next 25 years traveling the globe working on the new mobile phone technology. Similarly my cousin finished his engineering degree 2 years ago and is now on a gap year volunteering for engineers without borders in Vietnam. I guess my point is, you have the qualification, and you never know - I've had a lot of jobs, honestly the one's I've enjoyed and the one's I've hated really haven't been necessarily related to the field. My advice would be give it a go, at the very least it could be a 5 year job to pay for flying, or it could turn out you love it and the shine wore off flying... I just think it's important to see where that could go.


The only thing that's holding me back is my general lack of confidence in everyday life and low self esteem. This cases me to lack focus, clearity, assertivness and I'm also easily persuaded. As I was finishing high school the realization came to me that if I were to show up at the airline interview with personal traits such as these I would most likely be rejected.

Well, I've never applied to an airline, but yeah, I wouldn't think that would be a great cover letter, but what is important is you've identified your weaknesses. You know how long it takes some of us to become aware of ours? I'll be a little ageist/patronising here, so I do apologise, but I honestly believe some of those traits come with the time in life you find yourself in. Easily persuaded? That's 90% of people under 25 I know. I think you'll find you will change beyond measure over the next few years. And that's from personal experience. When I think of myself 9 years ago to today I'm almost a different person. That said, Low self esteem is always a tough one, and I'm no psychologist. It can affect any of use at any time, but I've also seen people go through great times in their life following lows just through small changes. Again - none of this needs to cause you to feel pressure right now.

I guess what I'm looking for is an advice if it's still worth a shot. Can I still change myself so that I, myself, would feel confident going to an interview and stepping inside of a cockpit?

Which career to go into.. that's a toughie, and really nobody else can answer that. I think you've been really brave acknowledging some pretty tough feelings online and really those are most important. You want to fly, you have a degree... ultimately both are doorways you can explore and they aren't mutually exclusive. What really matters is the feelings you have that are making you unhappy. Personally I'd probably try both doors and see how they make you feel.

Flying, like engineering could take you anywhere - it could be you enjoy recreational flying, but find doing it for a job takes the fun away. Or maybe you'll find out you love to teach flying to new pilots and not want to deliver passengers/cargo from A-B. Or maybe it'll be you like flying solo and you enjoy small regional work. I think most of us going in to flying are looking to get to that first officer seat on a commercial jet, but at the same time when we're starting out we know nothing about doing the job day to day.

Finally I wouldn't worry too much about those airline interviews. They won't come up until many many hours of flying, and by then you will be a pilot in your own right. My advice for flying is you've wanted to do this for so long, you still want to do it, you have to try it for yourself or you'll always regret it. But do yourself a favour and take the pressure off of it having to be a career. I don't know if you've flown yet, but if not, do one of those experience days, or and introductory pack and go from there. At the end of the day, how can any of us truly know for sure if we want to spend our lives flying for 10's of thousands of hours when we haven't flown for 10? Once you start flying, I think it'll be a fairly natural decision tree to take you where you want to be with flying.

Ultimately My personal belief is if you go into this wanting to reach an airline and fly for 10 hours, realise it isn't for you, and stop - you haven't failed. If you fly for 500 hours and never get a CPL, but are perfectly happy flying on the weekends, you haven't failed. If you fly for 2000 hours and get yourself all the way to the interview and get nocked back, you still haven't failed or wasted the money if you've loved doing it.

It's only if, say you've flown for 30 hours, but still don't really like it, and then go and pay up front for a CPL course because you started this so have to see it through or equivalent that it's wasting your money.

Trying something you've wanted to do for 10 years will never be a waste of money. Spending 10's of thousands upfront for something you're not sure of might end up being.

Ultimately my advice is take it slow, and fly. Best of luck, I hope to see you up there one day :)

[Hustlerkid]

so,sir you are suggesting me to do cpl training and ir after getting my ppl with night rating..

first-ppl/night rating

second-cpl training/ir/multi crew/multi engine

third-Atpl Theory..

is there any difference between cpl theory and atpl theory?

anything else which i have to do?

[KayPam]

Like I said just before, you shouldn't wait until after CPL training to take ATPL theory
Why ?

ATPL theory takes 9-12 months for a normal person with a normal rythm. Which gives you an idea about the volume of it.
So say you pass your IR exam. It is valid for one year.
One year within which you will be doing MCC training and re-learning ATPL theory. So you haven't even finished your training and you already need to spend about 1k more to renew your IR rating.

Plus, you have to learn CPL theory and IR theory before your CPL/IR
So basically you will be doubling the amount of theory that you have to learn

Not exactly double because it will be easier to learn the second time, but you will have to learn all the details twice. Which is not very rational.


ATPL theory is CPL theory + IR theory + some other little things

[somedayillfly]

So I've been looking for a flight school of quite while now. Brought my search down to two schools.

Flight school 1 - total of 209 flight hours (Single prop/Twin/sim)
Flight school 2 - total of 251 flight hours (Single prop/Twin/sim)

What is the value of those extra hours at flight school 2? The difference in price is 22k. Worth it or not?

[Ryanaf]

Hi all,

I'm just starting out and wanted to ask if anyone has any good/bad experiences training for a PPL (A) with any of these flight schools. They're the ones closest to where I live:

VVB at Elstree (40mins)
Stapleford (1hr)
Turweston (1hr 15)

It's quite a daunting task knowing where to start and I think I'll probably visit a couple first to see what the atmosphere is like.

I want to go the modular route into commercial flying. I'm mid thirties now and have a well paid job, low mortgage with lots of time off (why would I give it up I hear you ask!) and it seems less of a risk for someone in my situation. I.e If I don't get a job straight away, it wouldn't be a catastrophe financially.

My plan is to get a PPL and then look at CTC for distance ground school and then perhaps their modular flight training modules (£34k) ish.

Hour building, I'm not sure what the most cost effective way of achieving this is yet so any recommendations would be great. CTC recommended I go to Cyrpus!

Sorry if I'm going over old ground with this post and I do hope this forum will welcome me with open arms for the daunting journey ahead.

[mftx7jrn]

Ryanaf,

If you are going to go modular, I would suggest having a chat with either Bristol GS or CAPT first. Not got anything against CTC- their Integrated package is probably one of the best worldwide, but the other 2 G/S providers are fantastic for the modular route. They also have great modular flight school contacts. Good luck.

[Ryanaf]

Thanks guys. I'll add Cranfield to the list too.

The reason I was looking at CTC for modular is simply for their reputation in the industry. I've visited their facilities and found the staff to be very helpful. All modular students have the option of post CPL assessment to joint their employment pool which is a big draw. Having someone like CTC almost fighting your corner and trying to place you into work (successfully or not) seems a good investment.

Of course doing it for a fraction of the price is an option too. I'm not fully versed in how the industry works yet, and how to apply for jobs etc so I'm a little naive to say the least.

[Alex Whittingham]

I wouldn't recommend Cyprus for hours building without more research. It is a small island with only two airfields which are reasonably close to each other. The haze layer in summer also provides no visual horizon. This (http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/8629-hour-building-cyprus.html) old thread reveals more concerns, but may be out of date.

[mftx7jrn]

Bristol GS are part of the Wings Alliance, which may be of significant interest when considering contacts, links, flight schools etc. Phil at CAPT is also very well connected in this respect. CTC are world-class, no doubt about it, but there are other modular options as discussed above.

[Ryanaf]

Thanks guys for the help, much appreciated. I decided to have a trial lesson at Turweston and then I'll probably visit Stapleford. So many to choose from, those 2 are on the approved list with the CAA so I suppose the key is finding an instructor that I gel with.

[Evanelpus]

Hello everyone! Ever since I was little, I've wanted to become an airline pilot.

Whatever became of the OP, artie711. It would have been a courtesy for him to keep us posted, especially as his post was made a sticky.

[PPRuNe Towers]

Hasn't logged in under that ID since Oct 2014

Rob

[Robgarch]

Hi Ryanaf. Great to read your post. I`m in a very similar position to you in terms of age etc but not with the lots of time bit. In my mid 30`s and going for a PPL at Booker aviation in Wycombe and then ATPL (distance) at CTC and then CPL/IR with them too later. Cant help you with those flying schools you mentioned, sorry. Its good to know im not the only one taking that step. I wish you all the luck with it all.

[Ryanaf]

Thanks Rob, best of luck too. Feel free to DM me with your email and keep in touch. It would be good to know someone else of a similar age who is starting out. Had my first trial fight yesterday in a Piper Warrior and loved it!

[wwwanchi]

Good day, everyone!

After having looked on this forum anonymously for a while, I decided to join so I can introduce myself and engage in conversation.

My name is Wanchi, I am a 32-year old female human rights lawyer from the Netherlands. Flying (fighter jets) was a dream when I was a kid but when my eyesight wasn't perfect anymore at age 10, I decided to work for a more just world. After having worked for the UN and understanding the realities of the systems we work through, I lost faith and no longer want to work in my field.
I decided to travel, which led me to skydiving, which led me back to my initial dream of flying again.

I would like to do my flight training, ab initio to CPL/CFI, preferably in the US. I would like to work as a bush pilot in Africa, Asia or South America.
I understand my plans are against all odds, but I want to give it everything I've got and see if I can get there. And if not now, when? I can always reassess how things are going after having obtained the PPL and decide then if I want to leave it at that or continue with the rest of the training.

I have contacted several schools. I liked FlightSafety Academy for their reputation, but the school only provided a standard email and is not responding to my questions unfortunately. Oxford Aviation seems to be good too, but they don't offer ab initio programmes.
So, after this bit of background, I would like to ask you advice with the following:
Which SEVP certified flight school do I go to? I prefer the south for the weather and somewhere where living is not too expensive. I will do it fulltime and want to eat, sleep, breathe aviation. Where do schools offer personal training rather than assembly line training? And where do they hire a majority of their graduated CFIs?

Looking forward to receiving some valuable input. Thanks in advance!

[ThunderCats224]

Robgarch, you seem to have it all mapped out well. How long should that take?

[Robgarch]

Glad you really enjoyed it and taking the initial steps to get going. Sure, that would be really good to stay in touch so please free free to DM too. Iv got my first one booked for this tuesday and met my instructor yesterday who seems like a good guy.

[Robgarch]

Thanks. It may sound like its mapped out but things keep changing in terms of where to do CPL and IR etc. My instructor put it really well when he said just concentrate on one thing at a time and then move on so that`s what i`m going to try.

[kursantik]

Hello, everybody! I am from Ukraine, but I am going to start my 0-ATPL integrated program in Spain. And it is very hard for me to choose flight school. So, I will be very pleasure if someone recommends good flight school on the territory of Spain (Madrid and Barcelona will be more appropriate), where I can build all ratings and have qualitative training. Thanks

[Ahmed_Laskan]

hello

ill start introducing myself. im 17, done my gcses, doing a levels right now. I always wanted to be a pilot when I was young, I chased that dream untill I moved from holland to the UK. I thought about it and somehow wanted to become an engineer, not saying I dont like it. I love building stuff. but I also love to fly planes in simulators. yes its like a dream, and I wanna chase it. sitting in an office is to boring for me.

so thats me. now the thing is, I looked at CTC wings program, and I dont get it. am I able to go on a course after 6th form? do I need a degree? and most likely if I do get a degree I wont go on and become a pilot. I really dont know how I would have to do it. and what do I exactly need to become a pilot? I looked at the requirements and the academic side of it doesnt look hard. so anyone has tips for my lost future? because Right now im lost. we had a guest that was a pilot through CTC aviation, he gave me hopes and wanted to become a pilot again, he made it sound so easy. but I went on the website and then it was a different story. there were no actual courses for in the uk or big companies. so I would really love to have an answer from some one that does actually know what he/she is talking about.

thank you in advance :)

[jamesgrainge]

It seems to me you have two options.

1) Finish Uni, Work for 10 years as an engineer and save up enough for an integrated school and do your training all in one block. Maybe fly for pleasure inbetween. See what you prefer.

2) Work while you fly and do the steps posted many times over this website (modular).

I would always tell someone to go and take a trial lesson to see if they actually enjoy flying and find out what it entails to gain your licences.

Good luck

[Jack_02]

I am a Canadian citizen with no direct ties to Europe. (Apart from an Uncle who is a dual citizen there) My dream is to be a pilot in Europe. I am fluent in German (If it matters) and my first language is English. I know getting myself to Europe is going to be next to impossible because I need to obtain the right to live and work but there must be a way to accomplish it. I have come here seeking help. Are there any airlines hiring foreigners in Europe? I see a lot of 'Cadet' programs where you can get an ATPL (I have not started flight training) and work for that airline, can I apply to those as a Canadian/will an airline sponsor me a visa? I guess the point is, if there is anything anyone who can provide any information on the topic I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you for your responses, I look forward to reading them.

[beechbaron19]

(I have not started flight training)

Training is less expensive in Canada. It is particularly less expensive in B.C. than the rest of Canada (not sure why, everything else costs more). My flight school is full of Europeans here in B.C., for that reason (French, Spanish, Italian, German, British).

My suggestion is to complete your training and even ATPL here (much easier to convert to EASA once you have an ATPL - and, again, less expensive).

A job flying here does not appeal to me either. I hold a British and Canadian passport but unfortunately since Brexit I believe I'm only entitled to work in Canada and the U.K. now, rather than all of Europe :(

Hopefully this gives you some guidance.

Also - this is my first post but I've noticed an overall tone of negativity on this forum. I know several operators in B.C. who take low hour pilots right out of flight school - it's about networking and being friendly with all those you come across in the industry. It won't be glamorous or high paying but you'll fly a lot and build hours fast. The self proclaimed "realistic" people who tell you otherwise on this forum are not the people to be listening to.

Best of luck to you!

[jamesgrainge]

Brexit hasn't happened yet. Still at least two years to go. Immigration rules have not changed.

[Krautwald]

Jack, immigration is not easy but not impossible either. I believe it is harder for an EU citizen to be accepted into Canada than vice versa, the requirements regarding education and cash funds are lower.

While a pilot license might not get you a full stay and work permit, something else will. Do your research, there´s options, other people have done it so why shouldn´t you. You can try as a student, or get posted as an expat (maybe ground personnel?). Or you use the UK as a stepstone, and should there really be a post-Brexit problem, then try to go UK legal resident > Ireland legal resident, and voila you´re in. Second, there where Brits living in the rest of Europe before the EU so there will also be Brits living in the EU post Brexit - you could be employed by a UK carrier and be based somewhere else. Don´t be too scared of this Brexit thing, there will be regulations and they will be fulfillable somehow.

On whether they would hire you, well once you are a legal immigrant with a work permit, you are good to go for all of the EU countries, and speaking English and German you cover a large chunk of the market already. Just give yourself some years to train as a pilot, build hours (this is probably easier in Canada), find a way to immigrate to the EU, and fulfil the (arguably annoying) bureaucratic requirements that will probably include converting your license, sitting some exams, getting a new initial medical, taking some official language tests and then some. Don´t rush, take one step at a time and you should find a way.

[Locarno]

Hello all.

I am currently looking for the best CPL/IR (ME) around that doesn't break the bank. I was looking for Bartolini but they cannot offer a start date before March 2018 and I was hoping to get cracking a little bit quicker than that.

I am aware of the 'big' schools that I can go to but unfortunately my budget is more at Bartolini's level.

Can anyone make any suggestions for the CPL/IR(ME) for under €20,000 but still at a reputable school?

I've looked at Egnatia, G Air, Barcelona flight school and a few others in Poland/Hungary but the problem is none of them seem to have the reputation that Bartolini have.


So I guess my question is: Can anyone recommend any cheap and reputable flight schools that will be most likely to look favourable to the airlines?

Many thanks.

[KayPam]

It is a very good question indeed.
Diamond flight academy would be around 25k€, with good reputation, but that might be out of your budget.

[Officer Kite]

I'm not sure the cheapest would be what i want, it's not what the airlines want either

[Locarno]

I should clarify - I'm a 737 Captain and I paid through the nose for an integrated course. I'm asking on behalf of my partner who is completing her training and I firmly believe that some (Not all, I'll admit) airlines don't care about where the flight training is completed but only care if it's a Series 1. Hence, I'm looking for the cheapest school that still has a decent reputation of getting students through with the 1st time pass.

And thanks KayPam - I've emailed and facebooked Diamond flight academy but for some reason they haven't replied to either! I'll admit they are at the upper end of the 'budget' but they do seem to have a great rep!

[KayPam]

DFAS can take some time to answer or even not answer at all. But they might also not have any slot available for new students, or only on very short notice after potential student's cancellations.
You can expect them to be fully booked until beginning of 2018, but if you want to be 100% sure you would have to call them a few times.

It's a small school, they don't have secretaries to answer all your calls and emails.

[Locarno]

Thanks KayPam - After a while I did eventually get through on the phone. Fully booked until Feb, Bartolini full until March.

Grupo One Air in Malaga can take in with a start date that suits - anyone heard anything about them?

[Robo1996]

Hi guys and gals,

I am new to this page and this is my first post so i am looking for a little advice...

So my story..

I left school at 16 years old on completion of my standard grade exams (GCSEs) and joined the British Army as a boy soldier. I am currently still serving in the Army Air Corps (now 21 years old) and in my final 12 months of service. I am studying for my PPL and hopefully have it completed by the end of this year.

My question is - In what order did or are you guys completing the rest of the courses that make up a fATPL?

My Plan is PPL - Hour build/ATPL theory/Night rating - ME/IR - CPL - MCC/JOC - Interveiws... and i am planning on doing this the modular route too!

Any advice and tips would be very grateful!

[Lunak]

Hi,

I am sorry if this post is unsuitable here.

I am 40. I work my whole life in IT; technical, now management, project management, generall my career is well-developed, established and safe.

And I think it's time to change to something I love.

I don't have PPL, don't have any license. Once I began the course but didnt finish it. I skydive, I love flying, fortunately I have pilot colleagues who sometimes agree to fly with me.

Now; how my dream looks like; I would like to FLY planes, in any place in the world.

And the question; Is it realistic to learn flying, get license, and get the job as pilot, in some reasonable time? I am not interested now in serious big aircrafts, but rather small ones. I am able to sacrifice up to 1 year for trainings and pay for it.

Does any company provides course of trainings and then offer the position? I don't have to earn a lot of money.

What are the options (if any)?

thank you!

[Shagpile]

Hi - welcome to aviation!

At 40 my recommendation is to keep your "well-developed, established and safe" career and pursue a life of recreational flying! It's very satisfying and there are plenty of options to choose your own adventure, for example formation flying, aerobatics, club flyins & tours. Or just smash the circuit area for an hour on Sunday before having some beers and talking aircraft with fellow owners (set aside an entire day!).

Plenty of people build their own. Vans RV Series (https://www.vansaircraft.com) are very popular although there are dozens of others. The Sports Aircraft Association of Australia (SAAA) (http://saaa.com) have loads of members to provide help and advice on your build. Sports aircraft are wonderful: they do everything decent. Decent speed, slow takeoff/landing, decent cargo, good handling, light aerobatics, etc. Do your own maintenance if you built it.
You can buy one already built for $80-200k depending on the size / quality / engine / avionics fit out.

Operating costs are about 35L/hr @ $2.10 per L. Plus the odd $15 quart of oil. Hangarage roughly $200/month (varies). Insurance 2-4% of hull cost depending on experience & type (varies). Add $220 every 2 years for a security card (ASIC) if you intend to land at any security controlled airport (most regional airports). $100-200 a year for maps/charts. Flight review every 2 years: another $200-300 if you use your own aircraft. Aviation medical $300 (varies) every couple of years. Annual maintenance: $500-1000 if nothing goes wrong (varies massively - expect bill shock here!). Varying airworthiness directives: anything from $200-1000. Miscellaneous additional requirements to install new boxes in your aircraft, comply with CASA directives - [insert bill shock here].

If you choose an aircraft, my recommendation is to have one where you fill it up with fuel and can happily stick the docket in your pocket without looking at the bill. If you have to analyse at the fuel docket, you can't afford it. Get something smaller.

If you're after something smaller, ultralight's are also popular. There's some advantages to ultralight aircraft such as dealing with the excellent RAAus (https://www.raa.asn.au).

But saying that, I'm framing my answer around my life circumstances (family etc), not yours. If you're a free spirit, then the world is yours. Get a good instructor and learn to fly properly, then head to PNG, Africa, Northern Territory - go and see some crazy stuff that nobody will believe!

[B2N2]

Let me encourage you the other way, yes it is possible.
Question is if you are willing to make the sacrifice?
And you have to be realistic and not give it one year but 5 years.
Are you willing and financially stable enough to give this an honest try?
I would suggest you maintain some level of income and switch to part time or Consultancy work and train part time.
Review you lifestyle and see what expense you can do without.
Without getting into all the details your training will cost approximately 60-70k euros which for 'normal' people is two years worth of income.
A type rating ( if necessary) maybe another years worth of income.
Try and do this with as little debt as possible.
Train modulair and not Integrated.
Get your PPL and you IR and make an honest evaluation.
Are you somewhat close to the minimum training acquirement or did it take you double the amount of hours?
With enough time, money and patience anybody can be trained to fly, even on instruments. But that's not the point.
Point is are you good enough to make this a career?
if the answer is yes then continue, if the answer is no back to full time previous career and fly for fun.
You may very well be too old for a career with a major airline because they usually have age limits for entry level pilots.
However plenty of other companies not afraid to hire a more mature pilot then a 21 year old with an attitude problem.

[Lynx320]

Hi Lunak....some cadet program accept people in their 40s...so strive for that road, otherwise it is difficult.

[Piltdown Man]

I'm afraid B2N2 is as correct as he is sensible. There is no guarantee of a job after training and there is fierce competition for jobs that do exist. But let's say you get one 18 months after starting, which is quick, consider how much you will be paid. Also, do not be swayed by any rumours of any pilot shortage. Any shortage will be of experienced pilots. Yes, it does filter down to the new entrants but at a glacial speed. Only when you see European airlines recruiting for fully sponsored ab-initio courses will a real shortage exist as they panic to fill vacant seats.

My advice would be to fly for fun. Go gliding, get a PPL, do aerobatics and possibly, and very slowly, earn a CPL. This will put you a position whereby you a can jump into an aviation job if one comes up, if not you can continue to enjoy your or flying and current career. Furthermore, doing things this way will place you closer to the inside so you can hear of more opportunities as they arise.

Best of luck!

[dreaadnoult]

Hi Jack. Think about a Blue Card. It's a working residence permit that you can get in the EU as a highly qualified worker if you fullfill some basic income requirements (around 37K euro p.a. in Germany). You are obliged to work within your education field, i.e. engineering or medicine or whatever. However particularly in Germany after 21 month of posessing of the Blue Card (Blaue Karte) you can get a permanent residence permit without any limitations and do what you want, i.e. pilots training.

[Piloto10]

Hello everybody.


It would be a dream for me to become a plane pilot in Europe now that I could gather the money (my idea is to course integrated ATPL) and I have some important questions which are not so clear for me. I hope somebody can help me.


I am 35 years-old (which means that I would begin to look for a job being 37) and my height is 162 cm. Do you think this would be a handicap for European job calls? I know that I would be directly rejected by the Spanish airline Iberia because of my age, but I would like to know whether this is a rule or an exception.

I have checked the Internet, but I have not found the chance to get a job. For example, I know that Ryanair has hired around 800 pilots during the last year (if I am not wrong), but do you know approximately how many candidates there were? It would be very important for me to know against how many people I would have to fight.

In case I cannot get a job at an airline, would it be easy to get one out of airlines to gain hours? An example, cargo planes. It would be OK for me to go out of Europe for some years if needed, just temporarily.

The last question is: if I get a 737 type rating, do you think I would improve my chance? I heard that you can be hired in Asia if you have a type rating (as mentioned, it would be OK to get a job in Asia or anywhere else for a few years).

Thank you very much for your help.

[superflanker]

Hi everyone,

25(26 in december) years old. Work as a software developer since 2012. Very stable proffesion, not bad payed.

Obtained my PPL in may, now i am studying distance ATPL with CATS. I intend to keep working only to pay for the license. When i have it (or perhaps a little sooner :) ), i will quit the job and i will get any air job i can. I don't care if it's airline, instruction or other air jobs.

Good luck to everyone!

[SpookyB]

Hi,I'm 16 and I'm studing geography,ict,economics,and elective maths in my senior high school.
I want to know if i can be a pilot with these courses.?I'll

[CAGS92]

Hi,

New here but I've been lurking for many years. Look forward to becoming more active.

My situation:

25 and a half year old Aero Systems Engineer (British) with 2.5 years on the job. I have a matching BEng.

I obtained my PPL when I was 20 and have gained approximately 85 hours. I am thinking of trying airline pilot training, preferably in as short a time as possible from now onwards (factoring in a work notice period). I have about 60K (+/-5K) to use, and would like to go modular but full time.

I know OAA and CTC/L3 are considered 'top of the range' but any other popular ones to recommend? Sorry if the question appears gauche -I'm still learning the ropes about the current state of affairs in UK.

Look forward to further interactions :)

[lee1321]

Hello to every fellow enthusiasts out there!

I am looking for a little bit of help or suggestions you may have to kickstart my career in aviation.
It has been a dream of mine since a very young age to become a pilot. It is now that I am starting to put into place a pathway to succeed in my dreams. However, the sheer wealth of information out there at the moment can be overwhelming for a beginner like myself.

Okay, a bit of background about me. I have absolutely 0 knowledge of flying and no prior experience. I meet all the required criteria for becoming a pilot; EASA medical class 1, subjects and honours etc.. I am a European citizen with residence in both Finland and Ireland.

Now, where to begin? I have the opportunity (acceptance pending) to start my career with an ATPL certificate which is offered by programmes in Finland, Germany, Norway and the UK.
I also would have an opportunity to apply for a MPL license with Qatar Airways.

My question is, what route would you suggest I take? Is it risky to take an ATPL certificate at an academy that has no direct airline partners?

I'm sure this question has been asked plenty of times but each case is different. Any opinions or suggestions will be much appreciated!

[Heimdal]

Good evening. I would like to request some real life information.

As a 40 y/o female, dual citizen (German/Danish), with solid career (nothing fancy), a PPL-A and the funds to go on from there debt-free (modular), what kind of strategy would be the second-smartest (right after forgetting about it and saving the pennies :E)?

Any type of operations more likely to not rule me out? Any that are realistically out of reach (like the Legacy league)?

I know it starts with an ATPL course no matter what, but maybe there are choices along the way setting you up a little better or worse for specific operations. Niches that are worth using your resources for and others that are too unlikely to invest in (e.g. buying hours vs. buying a jet rating). I can move for opportunity.

Thanks.

[JamesPEM]

Hi everyone, new to this place!

Was wondering if there are any recommendations for flight schools in the US. i am looking to obtain CPL there with IR and ME rating. if possible even type rating to prepare myself for airline jobs.

The thing is most Schools in US do not have any reviews, so its kinda worrying to even bother trying. those bigger schools have varying reviews from very bad to very good. Good reviews for big school is not surprising but bad reviews are what i am concerned about.

I understand most people who intend to flying are taking a huge risk if they are not under any airline cadet program and worst, an expensive risk.

Is there anyone out there who is looking for FAA CPL program? Do you mind sharing your knowledge about the schools?

Cheers.

[positive vibes]

hello I am 27 years old .. I am doctor, single and don't really have any responsibilities ... I would like to be a commercial pilot its my dream job but I am not sure if its too late ? any suggestion will help. Thanks

[rudestuff]

^^^ what he said.
Definitely get an FAA IR. Then you can do a CBIR in 10 hours instead of 45/55.
Consider getting some multi time as well. It'll cost a bit more, but it's a really good insurance policy: just in case you don't get straight onto a jet there are still piston twin jobs in the UK, and if you've got 30 hours pic you can become an MEP CRI.

[Heimdal]

@button push, sorry for not replying, not checking here daily. Thank you for your contribution.

You mention Maersk/Star because it is a Danish company operating from Cologne. This is a good starting point for discussion, for is it really THAT simple? Me being affiliated to those two countries and speaking the languages, plus being a "just good enough" pilot earns you a seat? Pardon me for finding that thought connection a bit simplistic - I stand to be corrected.

On the other hand, IF it is really true that non-flying factors like languages will really seriously help, then that would be good to know. Aptitude and effort is for me to come up with. Other considerations, especially those that will help overcome the age problem in my case, are more on the employers side. What are those considerations?

[coopR]

Hello to every fellow enthusiasts out there!

I am looking for a little bit of help or suggestions you may have to kickstart my career in aviation.
It has been a dream of mine since a very young age to become a pilot. It is now that I am starting to put into place a pathway to succeed in my dreams. However, the sheer wealth of information out there at the moment can be overwhelming for a beginner like myself.

Okay, a bit of background about me. I have absolutely 0 knowledge of flying and no prior experience. I meet all the required criteria for becoming a pilot; EASA medical class 1, subjects and honours etc.. I am a European citizen with residence in both Finland and Ireland.

Now, where to begin? I have the opportunity (acceptance pending) to start my career with an ATPL certificate which is offered by programmes in Finland, Germany, Norway and the UK.
I also would have an opportunity to apply for a MPL license with Qatar Airways.

My question is, what route would you suggest I take? Is it risky to take an ATPL certificate at an academy that has no direct airline partners?

I'm sure this question has been asked plenty of times but each case is different. Any opinions or suggestions will be much appreciated!


Hi,
There are pros and cons of both really. If you opt for the MPL route you have more security of obtaining a job at the end compared to the standard White Tail Route as its sometimes referred to. But, have in mind that you are usually bonded to the airline (Qatar) for x many years and also you will have to do UK ATPL exams if you wanted to come back. If you do the standard ATPL route you have more freedom on who you want to work for, but you will then have to find a job after you have spent a lot of money for your training.

A bit of advice from me would be that you are choosing a career and there are many ways to get there. However, there are some options or routes you take which the career will also dramatically affect your lifestyle. For example if you chose the quatar MPL you would have to live there and would your views and lifestyle fit in with theirs?

Feel free to pm me if you have any other questions.

[grumpie70]

Curious to know if anyone has any advice on schools, that teach ATPL theory based in Europe that accept non- EU students.

I'm on the verge of completing my PPL training and would like to continue and get my ATPL theory exams done so then I can move on to securing a CPL/IR/ME but that's not offered where I am. Basically looking for a school that will assist in obtaining a student visa so I can study + sit my exams.

Everyone seems to recommend Bristol Ground School but they don't qualify for a student visa according to their site.

[Taepodong]

Hello everyone,

I am 30 y.o. living in Zurich, Switzerland and working as business analyst in Swiss bank. Looking for a good school for PPL(A). I searched through this forum and checked many flight schools and getting more and more confused which to choose... Can anyone advice which school in Europe is the best from quality/costs perspective? So far, I understood that Flying-In-Spain can be the best option... (learning in Switzerland is not an option). Can you please recommend?

Thank you for your answers.

[Awoozy]

First of all I sincerely hope I am posting in the right place. I have looked around and this seems to be the most fitting place. Apologies if I am mistaken. This is going to be a lengthy post so I will TL;DR main points on the end of it. I understand that there may have been many other people asking the same question of 'how does one become a pilot' but I feel like I could find some comfort if I was to ask it personally.

About me
I am 19 years of age (turning 20 on the 17th), have zero experience in flying and have never done any training courses or even touched on flying. I have wanted to fly for the longest I can remember and it's truly the only career that the thought of excites me.I had searched for information but the more I searched to more I felt like I became tangled in the information I read so at the age of 14 my mom agreed to take me to an open day that Virgin Atlantic (If I remember correctly. It was a long time ago) had. I don't remember much of what went on if I'm completely honest. The only thing that stuck was when the person ,who took the lecture, announced the cost of training. This is the point where I turned to look at my mother who had the 'Just forget it' look on her face. I looked for ins and outs to get around finance but was clueless. On top of that my mom, her bf and my sister didn't seem to be too supportive mainly due to my academic history. I had obtained C's and B's in GCSE's (without any revision) failed A level due to lack of interest and have only obtained a level 2 qualification in electrical engineering, chef cookery and have a life guarding certificate (What a discrepancy, I know). Essentially I have wasted my years of free education. I've always been the kind of person to really have to want something to work for it. Further more I am a very hands on kind of guy meaning sitting with a pen and piece of paper with study books was literal torture for me.

I am now at a point where I really want to start my career and independent life but I'm sat here asking what I'm going to do with my life and quite frankly feel like a bit of a failure. Searching for job after job I just can't help but think about getting my hands on Pilot training. Am I completely hopeless at this stage? Is it worth trying or should I just accept I would be out of my depth in even wishing to become a Commercial Airline Pilot?

TLDR Is it possible to do Airline Pilot Training and to become an Airline Pilot with no (or a tiny/irrelevant)academic history and if so how would I go about it?
-Finance is an issue. My family will be hesitant to support me financially as I have lost their trust
-What routes are there to take in order to get training
-What can I expect during training and within the industry? I have heard people say that the industry is 'drying up' I don't entirely see how that is accurate but regardless, they say it's not worth the pressure as a new Pilot as it will be a lot of stress especially so when starting out.
- I have shoddy eyesight. I have read wearing glasses is fine but Pilots must have multiple spare's at all time. Is laser eye surgery an option and how would it fare with an aeromedical examination?

Any help on the matter would be much appreciated. Sorry if I come across very naive. It's what I'm here for and will take on board any help I am given.

[rudestuff]

Dude, you've got your whole life ahead of you. You can make anything happen. Of course you won't realise that until much later. Make a plan and write it down, then stick to it. You don't need any qualifications apart from those required for licencing, but if you want A levels - then go and get them.

Your biggest hurdle is going to be money. Beg, borrow, steal - then use it wisely, go modular. For many it means getting a job or two or three, then working for years to make it happen. (Obviously it won't happen because you'll want to go out and spend it all like every other 20 year old.) Prove me wrong. Stay living at home as long as possible and get the best paying job you can, then go to your local flying school and work weekends for flight time. After a year you'll have your PPL. Get some credit cards for day to day purchases and pay them off every month (to build your credit history) - I would suggest work and save to get your first hundred hours, and only consider borrowing anything after you've passed your ATPL exams.
Everything you want is perfectly achieveable from nothing in 5 years. If you're lucky, you'll get hired straight away. If not, you might have to wait for the next wave to come along. It's not easy, but if you WANT to be a pilot you will be one.

[MaverickPrime]

Listen to rudestuff.

Firstly, you are what you say you are. So if you say you are a failure, then you are a failure. If you say you are a success, then you are a success. We can’t help you validate your self worth, only you can do that.

Before, you do anything, save yourself a lot of time, money and effort and go see if you can get a Class 1 medical. You won’t be a comercial pilot without it.

Contrary to popular believe, pilots aren’t supermen. You don’t need to be Einstein to fly a plane. You just need to be dedicated and determined to do the study and get through the training. Generally, GCSE level education with a good understanding of mathematics should be enough to get you through training.

The industry isn’t winding up, nor is it ‘not what it used to be’. There are a lot of old farts who look back to their youth with rose tinted glasses and reminisce about what it was like to be a pilot in their day, often leaving out all the downsides. You will come across a lot of negativity in this industry and people who will tell you to not bother being a pilot. However, if you really want it you will stay focused and cut through the negativity.

As for how, when or where to train. Well that is up to you to decide. You need to research, research, research and pick the best route for YOU. All I can say is you don’t need anywhere near £100k to get your fATPL.

Good luck!

[Kafkaw]

Hello all.
A 15 year old from Kuwait (yes that part of the world) aspiring to be a pilot (military fighter, transport/commercial airline transport pilot). Due to the whole "We don't have enough planes fiasco" going on in my Air Force, I'm currently looking into going into one of 3 airlines, Kuwait, Qatar, or Emirates. Currently, education-wise, have a steady 3.0 GPA average, finished Algebra iI, biology, taking pre-calc, chemistry, calculus, and physics in the coming years.

I speak both Arabic and English fluently, and have been playing flight sims for around 2 years now. Now my question is, what should I do? Apparently, the only way Kuwait Airways accept anyone is if they go through their own program for CPL/ATP/MOC, however I've been given an opportunity to start my PPL now, and not sure whether to take it or not. Also will be looking for a bachelor's degree in college/uni, and unsure whether to go a "normal" Uni, or a Uni with a flight degree/program, again this conflicting with possibly going into Kuwait airways. Lastly, going to see if I can be an airline pilot in the first place by going for a EASA Class 1, but any tips from now would still be appreciated.
Thanks all!

Tips in general on the best way to enter the aviation industry would be great as I get so lost from all the different approaches you can take into the industry.

[frye189]

Hi guys!

EASA license is one of the most respectful licenses in the world. For European guys here's no question-you have money, find a school, go and later with lots of problems find a job. Looks not easy however for not EU resident it looks impossible. So here we go. Where is this place in the world where EASA license with approx 250 hours will be enough to be hired at least on Cessna Caravan?

So I know one company in Indonesia it's Susi Air, everybody knows it. They're still hiring, the company is great and reviews as well. I think there's a possibility to find probably other two or three. It's only Indonesia. In my opinion, it's the only country where I'm with EASA license will fit the requirements and with huge "maybe" find a job on Caravan.

Latin America and Caribians they're hiring with some hours(min 500) and they prefer FAA. So no jobs there.

Africa? Who knows something about Africa? Bush pilot? You know I think it's a great experience for low hours pilot. If you know something about this continent feel free to respond.

The Middle East? They're full of Captains who have hours on 777 rather than Cessna :)

Let's return to Europe... And to be exactly correct to Eastern Europe. I read some topics about SmartLynx and Avion Express, not good reviews. But still, I'm asking about Africa as a great place to start, that's why Baltic states like paradise in the world:) SmartLynx has an opportunity to join them without EU residency. I will have to pay for TR and MAYBE they will hire me. The question is - is this only one company which has this requirement about citizenship or they're many of them, at least I know only one.

Price-60K for fATPL is max and max 20K for possible TR. What do think about it? Try luck or shut up?

Grateful for answers! Have a nice day!

[q33139490]

Hi everyone, new to this place!

Was wondering if there are any recommendations for flight schools in the US. i am looking to obtain CPL there with IR and ME rating. if possible even type rating to prepare myself for airline jobs.

The thing is most Schools in US do not have any reviews, so its kinda worrying to even bother trying. those bigger schools have varying reviews from very bad to very good. Good reviews for big school is not surprising but bad reviews are what i am concerned about.

I understand most people who intend to flying are taking a huge risk if they are not under any airline cadet program and worst, an expensive risk.

Is there anyone out there who is looking for FAA CPL program? Do you mind sharing your knowledge about the schools?

Cheers.
Glad to meet someone who is also looking for a trustworthy flight school with FAA CPL program. I've done a little work about this by reading on PPRuNe. It looks like Flightsafety Academy on Florida is a good choice, because several users in this forum both says this school is one of the best in US. What I have not know is the cost compare.
Maybe we could find friends to go to the same school together.

[Fly_Pips]

Hi all,

Forgive me if some/all of this information has already been discussed before.

I am 31 from London (UK), and have deiced I want to learn how to fly.

I'm aware it costs a fair amount to train, and that to be a commercial pilot is much more expensive than just the standard PPL.

So, what I wanted to ask is, if one had only the PPL, is it possible to earn an income with this level? If not, what is the minimum requirement to be able to earn from this skill? Do you have to have the full ATPL (which seems to cost a crazy amount of money, even through a modular route, with no guarantee of a job after).

My questions are based around being able to recover the costs of training, and actually being able to enjoy this without it draining a hole in my pocket continuously. So it appears the only way to do that, is to be employed as a pilot.

Does anyone know the most cost effective way to become a pilot and earn an income from it? Wether that be training in different countries etc.
And at what level can someone start to earn?

Sorry if these questions are quite broad, I'm new to this.

Thanks for reading.

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

Hi all,

Forgive me if some/all of this information has already been discussed before.

I am 31 from London (UK), and have deiced I want to learn how to fly.

I'm aware it costs a fair amount to train, and that to be a commercial pilot is much more expensive than just the standard PPL.

So, what I wanted to ask is, if one had only the PPL, is it possible to earn an income with this level? If not, what is the minimum requirement to be able to earn from this skill? Do you have to have the full ATPL (which seems to cost a crazy amount of money, even through a modular route, with no guarantee of a job after).

My questions are based around being able to recover the costs of training, and actually being able to enjoy this without it draining a hole in my pocket continuously. So it appears the only way to do that, is to be employed as a pilot.

Does anyone know the most cost effective way to become a pilot and earn an income from it? Wether that be training in different countries etc.
And at what level can someone start to earn?

Sorry if these questions are quite broad, I'm new to this.

Thanks for reading.

To earn a salary from flying you need to have a minimum of a Commercial Pilot’s Licence (CPL). This can then be teamed with other ratings to be able to earn money. A good example of an ‘entry level’ job would be a Flight Instructor for which you just need the CPL and to meet hours requirements. Flight instructing can be done part time and indeed many do part time instructing as a hobby job.

I’m judging by your post is that you already have a career and are looking to do this as a hobby. My advice would be to get your PPL first and then worry about whether you want to earn a living from it. Aviation is something you need to love, and a quick scan around this forum will show that earning a living from flying aeroplanes comes with a great deal of work and personal sacrifice, so you need to know that it is definitely something you would give everything for.

Its spring now, so you should be able to get a good few hours under your belt before the weather turns bad again. You mentioned other countries; there are hundreds of flying schools in the US and the med that benefit from year round weather and cheaper hourly rates. Perhaps taking a month off work and doing an intensive PPL course would work for you. The more you fly, the better you will be able to answer your own question. Whichever way you cut it, flying is always going to burn a hole in your pockets so you need to be prepared for that reality. Only when you have a secure flying job will the tide of cash start to turn the other way.

[huseyydemm]

Yes, on your way you need to clear your goals in your head... you want to be a hobby pilot, flying from A to B, for fun, or you want to do this for earning money?

As a Private Pilot, you can take passengers but do only cost share, not earning from it. During a CPL course you learn the aspects of commercial flying and taking responsibility as a "professional" pilot.
But if you love flying - you will see in your ppl course, after some experience you can think of becoming a pro, but starting with ATPL theory, not CPL.

[Ellis_]

Good evening, all!

I am a 15 year old student working towards my PPL and I would appreciate some advice to achieve my ultimate ambition of becoming a medium/long haul pilot for a large airline.

Currently, I am about to start flying a light aircraft(possibly a PA-28) and have started studying the 7 books. From here I would like to get an IFR rating, multi-engine rating and frozen ATPL.

Are these advisable ratings to carry out and are there any other recommended? Also, does anyone have a rough estimate as to what these ratings would cost, I am aware of the PPL costs?

I am also hoping to get a Class 1 medical at Gatwick before I "waste" any money.

With regards to current experience, I have been flying 7 times with the RAFAC in the Grob Tutor 115E and have four hours in the back of an R44.

This week, I also carried out work experience at Humberside Airport and was able to get a better picture of the industry which greatly enthused me, working with ATC, various aerospace companies and fire crews. Fortunately, I got to visit Eastern Airways which seems like a good airline to gain hours and experience, as they have employed pilots with hours as little as 200!

At school, I am currently doing well studying for my GCSEs which are: Higher Maths, Triple Science, English, Spanish, Computer Science, Electronics and Geography. For my A-Levels I am hoping to take: Maths, Physics and Geography.

Are these good options and will it be necessary to get a degree?

Could I please have some advice as to what to do next and a good path as to becoming a commercial pilot. Preferably at a lower cost than £100,000 but I appreciate that it doesn't come cheap!

Kind regards,
Ellis.

[jamesgrainge]

Go to Yorkshire Flight School at Breighton. They will look after you for the first part and save you some cash along the way.

[Ellis_]

Go to Yorkshire Flight School at Breighton. They will look after you for the first part and save you some cash along the way.

Thanks for your advice, do you have an idea as to how much it costs at Breighton? I also heard that it is a bit of a "lawless" airfield.

I am just wondering whether it will provide that much of a benefit, as it is a 40 minute drive and I live on the same road as Sandtoft Airfield. My other nearby potential places to learn are Doncaster Sheffield airport and Humberside airport.

Regards,
Ellis.

[rudestuff]

Sounds like you have the right attitude, and you've got plenty of time. If I were you I would get myself a weekend job at a flight school and see if they'll pay you in flight time. If not, then ANY weekend job and spend it hour building (plenty of ways to hour build cheaply starting from £60 with a share) By the time you're old enough to get a CPL you'll have the hours.. Along the way, you can pick up your ATPL exams, IRR, then IR (CBIR route, obviously). That'll leave you a 15 hour CPL to get and the multi time for your MEIR. Get your parents on board by promising to move out when you get a job!

If you stay focused you'll be debt free and flying a Jet while your friends are graduating with Mickey Mouse degrees and loads of debt.

[CaptainPugwash12]

Yeah the younger you are the more appealing a career as a pilot and business case stacks up and possibly a better route than a degree but always have a back up career, who knows what can happen? Good luck!

[Tommyc9494]

Hi everyone I’m new to this form so apologies if iv put this in the wrong place or if this question has already been asked by someone else I couldn’t find one that was close enough to my situation I’m ideally hoping to speak to commercial airline pilots who have entered the industry in a similar way to I’m hoping to or anyone with flight experience

So I’ll try to explain my situation as best as I can I was born with leg problems which resulted in me having operations from the age of one and they never stopped again till about the age of 18 I’m now in my early 20s and all is thankfully well but due to my 20+ operations I missed a lot of time in school and was there for placed in the lower sets where tbh I under achieved drastically because of a few reasons one I was still missing on average 3 months a year and when I was in attendance I never put any effort in because to be blunt I was leaps ahead of the kids in my group so I never needed to what an idiot I was in fact I had teachers say I’m an under achiever and proud of it then to top it off when I reached year 11 I was diagnosed with severe dyslexia due to these reasons I left with grades ranging from cs to es and went straight into work

At the age of about 20 I decided to apply to easyJet’s academy if I recall correctly but put my sisters grades on I got invited to attend an interview and to sit a few assessments but they also wanted my gcse certificates so I never went and then at the age of 22 I got a flight experience bought for me and when I went up I spoke about how I’d love to be a commercial airline pilot and that I should go for it because I’m a natural he was probably trying to sell me lessons though lol but he did point out something I read about not needing gcse as long as I had the correct license

So my questions are

1 Obviously knowing I’d never get into an airlines academy if I did decide to pay the huge costs to become fully qualified what would my chances be of getting a job with my grades

2 am I even going to pass a medical with my lower leg condition even though it’s all sorted know it was club foot and was rather severe in my younger years

3 and finally iv currently got about 10 k towards flying lessons or investing into a business but that is still way short of what I need to become qualified in the field so I’d have to get a loan or some sort of finance to complete the training would that be possible

Thank you all in advance

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

Hi everyone I’m new to this form so apologies if iv put this in the wrong place or if this question has already been asked by someone else I couldn’t find one that was close enough to my situation I’m ideally hoping to speak to commercial airline pilots who have entered the industry in a similar way to I’m hoping to or anyone with flight experience

So I’ll try to explain my situation as best as I can I was born with leg problems which resulted in me having operations from the age of one and they never stopped again till about the age of 18 I’m now in my early 20s and all is thankfully well but due to my 20+ operations I missed a lot of time in school and was there for placed in the lower sets where tbh I under achieved drastically because of a few reasons one I was still missing on average 3 months a year and when I was in attendance I never put any effort in because to be blunt I was leaps ahead of the kids in my group so I never needed to what an idiot I was in fact I had teachers say I’m an under achiever and proud of it then to top it off when I reached year 11 I was diagnosed with severe dyslexia due to these reasons I left with grades ranging from cs to es and went straight into work

At the age of about 20 I decided to apply to easyJet’s academy if I recall correctly but put my sisters grades on I got invited to attend an interview and to sit a few assessments but they also wanted my gcse certificates so I never went and then at the age of 22 I got a flight experience bought for me and when I went up I spoke about how I’d love to be a commercial airline pilot and that I should go for it because I’m a natural he was probably trying to sell me lessons though lol but he did point out something I read about not needing gcse as long as I had the correct license

So my questions are

1 Obviously knowing I’d never get into an airlines academy if I did decide to pay the huge costs to become fully qualified what would my chances be of getting a job with my grades

2 am I even going to pass a medical with my lower leg condition even though it’s all sorted know it was club foot and was rather severe in my younger years

3 and finally iv currently got about 10 k towards flying lessons or investing into a business but that is still way short of what I need to become qualified in the field so I’d have to get a loan or some sort of finance to complete the training would that be possible

Thank you all in advance


Before worrying about anything else book in for an assessment for your Class 1 Medical. Its pointless worrying about grades etc before knowing that your body is up to it. It is an expensive process (£500 ish) but even if you can't get a class 1, you may be able to get Class 2 which will allow you to fly on a PPL.

[Tommyc9494]

Before worrying about anything else book in for an assessment for your Class 1 Medical. Its pointless worrying about grades etc before knowing that your body is up to it. It is an expensive process (£500 ish) but even if you can't get a class 1, you may be able to get Class 2 which will allow you to fly on a PPL.


hi thanks for getting back to me that sounds like a great starting point for myself iv had a little read into some of them this morning and apparently they take about 4 hours and include even include lung test so could I also fail on that for smoking/slight asthma I am in the process of quitting though and say if I was to fail on the day but am able to pass a class2 would I be passed for that automatically instead or would I need to pay for another exam

[jamesgrainge]

Class 1 medical seems like a massive deal for someone who hasn't done it, but actually it's not too bad. The spirometry tests aren't extensive, a simple blow in and out of breath, and you should have no problems provided your vision can be corrected to 20/20 and your hearing doesn't require any aids, you should be fine.

[carlapilot]

In the beginning when I had no clue, I started with Class 1 medical instead of class2..... was not a big deal :D

Class 1 medical seems like a massive deal for someone who hasn't done it, but actually it's not too bad. The spirometry tests aren't extensive, a simple blow in and out of breath, and you should have no problems provided your vision can be corrected to 20/20 and your hearing doesn't require any aids, you should be fine.

[ASFOS]

Hi all,

I was hoping I could receive from guidance from anyone who may have been in a similar situation to myself or even some general pointers as they would be much appreciated. Essentially, I'm not sure if I should start my training with a decent chunk (a third) of money saved or to wait till I've saved the overwhelming majority and to then start training.

I'm currently a 20 year old working in an Accountancy firm on a higher level apprenticeship. The pay is relatively decent and by the end of 2020, I should have around £20k saved and I think this will cover off a PPL, ATPL Theory and some of the Hours Building. I will continue to work whilst training and therefore able to continue to save money however, I can't help but think, I'll most likely burn through the £20k and then I may need to stop/start to save for the CPL/ME/IR and I'm assuming the lack of continuity will naturally hinder my development. However, if I wait till I'm around 26-27, I should hopefully be qualified with an ACA and consequently able to save up around £60k which will hopefully cover off the overwhelming majority of my training. One of the reasons I would like to start a PPL relatively soon is aside from my desire to do so, I've attended a cadet program assessment day in the past for Aer Lingus, they had questioned why I hadn't commenced on my flying lessons and consequently not really shown a commitment to aviation yet which was fair enough. I'm not implying this is the reason why I did not get in, as every candidate I met there was highly talented and I'm sure they picked the best ones although it was a valid point. However, I can imagine that if I did get a PPL and then decide to stop there for a few years until I had enough for an CPL/ME/IR there would be regular ongoing costs to maintain my PPL which wouldn't be efficient as I'd much rather use that money to develop further

Any advice/personal anecdotes you may have would be much appreciated.

[Nurse2Pilot]

Personally, I wanted to have everything in place, money in hand (or most of it), and a plan written down. As I learn more and more, it seems that to get to that point (if ever!!), I'll need loads of time and silly amounts of research to cover every possibility. I may come to regret this down the line but I've had enough of planning and I've decided to say "fk it!!" and step off the cliff. I want to fly and commercial was a way to do it and get paid, but I have to remember that I want to fly more than I want to get paid. In the end of all this, if I end up with an airline job, then it's a big win. If all I end up with is a PPL and an odd flight every now and again, it's still a very good win. I guess it all boils down to what you really, really want in the end.

Another thing I've considered is the saving part --- knowing myself, if I had a good chunk of money saved up, I'm sure to have some odd side project that will take up my time and money, thus leading me further and further away from my goal in both time and resources. By closing my eyes and taking the plunge, I've committed myself to this.... any money saved MUST go to flying or else I'll lose my skills and would have to fly some more to keep up. Any money saved MUST go to more lessons to get better. I wager once I've had a good taste of flight, it'll draw me in more and more and it'll just happen.

Lastly, I have to be in it to win it. I could save up for 5 years and do all my training in one go, but who knows what opportunities I missed on those 5 years? I'd rather start now and be in it and be ready and available for opportunities that arise. Who knows, one of those opportunities just might be a solution to my financial problem!

Not saying you should follow what I'm saying, just putting my thoughts to words here and trying to convince myself that I've not gone bonkers!!

[rudestuff]

Now is the time to get into the industry. Every year you wait will make your pilot career a year shorter, which equates to £100k+ in today's money. I'd go and check your credit score.

[Maverick97]

I recently spoke to a Channex skipper after my flight who recommended that I do whatever it takes to get that licence and get a job. He was very direct with me which I massively appreciated. He basically said its all fun and games mostly right now but when the market takes a downturn and you can't get a job you'll be wishing you took that small bank loan to cover the rest of your training. Can't say I disagree, he seemed like a very wise man with plenty of experience under his belt. I believe he was a training captain so he knew a lot about the types of guys coming through the door.

[Jason0918]

Hi guys just after a bit of advice from people in a similar situation so myself and would like to know what they did.

Basically I’m 26 qualified heating and gas engineer looking at a career change to become a pilot, started my ppl recently. I have been looking into modular course requirements which from different schools are conflicting.

So I have maths and English c gcse and other subjects but a d in science ( didn’t think I needed it at the time is never studied for it!!) I also have heating nvq level 2 and 3 and gas qualifications.

My concern is the science. I went to the pilot road show yesterday and was told different things from different schools 2 said doesn’t matter won’t affect you and couple others said I need to redo it as it will affect my chances with an employer.

After some thoughts I am planning to redo it anyway as I thing it hopefully will be good prep for what’s to come, when I’ve looked at courses things seemed to have changed I cannot find gcse science for adults easily mostly I see science biology or science physics? The phsyics is what I’m thinking of doing, do you think this will be sufficient instead of my gcse science d?

Thanks in advance sorry for the long post
Jason

[Ivan aromer]

Hi guys just after a bit of advice from people in a similar situation so myself and would like to know what they did.

Basically I’m 26 qualified heating and gas engineer looking at a career change to become a pilot, started my ppl recently. I have been looking into modular course requirements which from different schools are conflicting.

So I have maths and English c gcse and other subjects but a d in science ( didn’t think I needed it at the time is never studied for it!!) I also have heating nvq level 2 and 3 and gas qualifications.

My concern is the science. I went to the pilot road show yesterday and was told different things from different schools 2 said doesn’t matter won’t affect you and couple others said I need to redo it as it will affect my chances with an employer.

After some thoughts I am planning to redo it anyway as I thing it hopefully will be good prep for what’s to come, when I’ve looked at courses things seemed to have changed I cannot find gcse science for adults easily mostly I see science biology or science physics? The phsyics is what I’m thinking of doing, do you think this will be sufficient instead of my gcse science d?

Thanks in advance sorry for the long post
Jason
Dont seem to be able to send you a PM. According to PP, your inbox is full!

[Jason0918]

sorry I just deleted the last message in inbox to make space, you can try again
thanks

You can’t use the Private Messaging system, add url links or images until you have an established posting history

[Radicalash]

I currently have a space with cae for their Madrid atpl whitetail training, however it's expensive and I would have to pay for my living costs abroad. FTA shoreham on the other hand is more local and I could easily commute, stay at home plus it's cheaper. Does anyone know why it's cheaper? Would I be missing out or getting a worse training? Harder to get work afterwards?

[mik3bravo]

I found this recent YouTube channel set up by a chap who used to fly for Easyjet and more recently as a Captain with BA.

His channel is dedicated to providing advice to wannabes but more importantly the guy has given up his career as an airline pilot and his channel explains why he took this decision and tracks the next chapter in his career development.

The following clip contains up to date information to help anyone flirting with the idea of pursuing a career as an airline pilot:

Watch "Should you become an airline pilot in 2018 or 2019" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/Q4yOnxogNHE

[wiggy]

but more importantly the guy has given up his career as an airline pilot

Just a question - has he? He was last heard of (post his “today I’m leaving BA” video) heading for a A330 contract in China.

[RHSandLovingIt]

Just a question - has he?
It would appear not, yet... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOU9z61rPKI

He mentions he is on a 4 year contract and is aiming to transition to his "other" career (I believe it is app development?) at the end of the contract.

[Newbi]

Dear all,

​​​​​​I am sure this has been asked many times and infact answered many times throughout the journey of this forum. However, if you could take the time to answer for my specifics it would be greatly appreciated. I did look at the stickys and wondered if posts or replies from 2013 could perhaps be outdated? I'm not going to waste your time telling you my story since I've already wasted enough time.

So I finished mech engineering and now I want to be a pilot. I want to do it ASAP so preferably a fully integrated course as I'm already 24. My father can pay for it but obviously, cheaper the better. I've spoken to a few pilots and they all point towards America. I am from the UK so that would mean I need to do a conversion course which i am not fussed about but, however I've recieved mixed answers from a few people I know. Some say conversion courses cost no money but a bit of time and some say it is really expensive and not worth it. I really cannot see doing it in the UK and paying up to 95k when doing it in America could be as cheap as 50k. Obviously accommodation and food needs to considered into the overall payments. So I really would like someone experienced to shed some light into this please.

Furthermore, if America is the most optimal place to do it, or wherever it is, would someone mind shedding some light into any good academies that I should be looking into? And before anyone asks, this is the only thing I want to do. The pilots I spoke to said there is a "shortage of pilots in the near future" but of course I won't go forward fully dependent on that. I want to go forward as I'm sure this is the only thing I want to do. Sorry about the long post and thank you very much for reading.

Kind regards,

Newbi
​​​​

[Newbi]

Yeah as I was researching further today. I think modular is the best approach. I'd like to do it ASAP, preferably within a year if possible. The whole thing I mean. But it's so confusing. If someone could list me the detailed breakdown, it would be amazing. For example I read a post where someone would do their ppl in South Africa. But my friend who's a pilot says you'd then need to convert that back to uk which costs more money. But simply doing a ppl from uk is vastly more expensive than doing it anywhere else it seems. Furthermore, what is with the exams? Can I do it in my own time and just attend the exams? Would that be cheaper? And then the hours later on, can I do that anywhere or does that somehow need to be converted to UK too? And then just do the cpl in UK? What about the things you do after cpl to get you fATPL?

I must be annoying you by now Joshua, but I'm really really confused.
​​​​​​
Thank you very much for your reply though. Hopefully you might be able to provide better insight for me.

[AD27]

Hello everyone!

I would like some advice, regarding my situation. I'm currently finishing my Bachelor studies in Business, but for sure I want to be a professional pilot. As i have heard from some pilots, the integrated training is a better choice right now to be in a f/o seat. Do you know, which schools/trainers do financial help, or any state that provide financing or bank loans, that doesn't neked to be payed back until I start working? I live in Budapest now, but willing to move in the EU.

[airbourne]

The search facility is a little bit old and throwing up responses from 2004 etc. 18 months etc.

In today's market what is the expected wait time from fATPL to first job?

[stephxox]

Hello,

I am 34 in a week, from the UK and want to train to be a commercial pilot. I have worked in other careers in the past but nothing I have done has given me enough job satisfaction and I end up doing something else. I have worked in hospitality, as a hairdresser and as an outdoor education instructor (which I have a degree in). I do enjoy Outdoor ed but the pay is terrible, you would be lucky to earn 24k a year in a well paid job. I love travel and have been traveling for about 5 years now.
I worry that if I became a pilot I would get bored of it or would the job keep me interested? I would like to fly smaller aircraft's (such as the twin otter) as I would like to fly in more remote places.

Also i worry about funding. I have some savings at the moment (35000 GBP) but the modular training costs between 50-60k.Is it best to wait until I have all the funding before I start training in case I can not finish due to lack of funds or is it a good idea to get a loan for the last 20k or so? I would rather not wait another couple of years to save the extra money as I will be 36 before I start training. Also is it difficult to find a job as a new pilot? If I did get a loan I would need to start paying it back quite quickly so would need a job.

I wondered about becoming a flight instructor but I see its still more money than I have saved to do this so I am a bit stuck on what to do.

Any advice would be much appreciated, thank you

[stephxox]

Thank you for your reply being very honest.

I didn't expect it to be glamorous to be honest, its not really what I look for in a job, job satisfaction is one of the key points as like I said, I get bored easily which is why I think smaller aircraft and more remote flying would suit me better. I have a trail lesson booked for next week and as you suggested I will go ahead with my PPL and see how I go from there.

I don't think it sounds cool or fun and its something I had not thought of doing before. I think it could be interesting and challenging. I recently was working in a very remote place and they had pilots there that worked on twin otters, dash 7 and the bazler BT-67 and i never knew about this side of aviation before. I figured pilots flew large aircraft's from airport to airport and if you flew remote you had to be in the forces or something, naive I know but I never really thought about it.

What are the major difficulties in becoming a pilot?

Thank again

[Training Risky]

What are the major difficulties in becoming a pilot?


1. Hand-eye coordination - use your trial lesson to figure out if you have got it. Some people may have all the brains in the world but can't fly straight and level!
2. Mental arithmetic - you say you have a degree in PE, any maths in that? Can you do distance/speed/time problems while under pressure. Some people have all the hand-eye coordination but no mental maths ability!
3. Deep understanding of meteorology, aircraft tech and performance - lots of studying involved.
4. Resilience - can you bounce back after a good sortie, or a failed test flight?
5. Attitude - can you get on with all types of people? If not, can you compromise and learn to make the best of a bad pairing with a difficult Captain/Ops Manager?

These represent about 0.001% of the possible difficulties in becoming a professional pilot.

I was a military pilot for 5 years, then moved to a ground-based Ops job. I didn't even attempt the CPL/ATPL exams because I had started a family and just didn't want to fly for Lyin'Air or Sleazyjet. You must prioritise according to your age, commitments and cash!

[airbourne]

So I am type 2 diabetic. Not insulin dependent. I take a couple of tablets a day. I have good blood sugar control.

Question is has anyone with type 2 diabetes gained their Class 1 medical and went on to the flying.

Plenty of posts about being a pilot and becoming diabetic but I am looking before the horse bolts!

The rules are different in the US and other countries so thats why I am asking about the UK & Ireland only.

[parkfell]

Although you are not too old, age isn't on your side and of course your primary concern must be for the family.
You need to nibble away at it.

1. Start down the PPL route with a Class Two medical. Your AME will know whether you qualify for a Class One. Obtain this by the time you obtain your PPL

DECISION TIME:
2. Head in the books with distant learning for the EASA exams

DECISION TIME:
3. CPL followed by FI part time keeping your well paid job or Potentially more risky CPL/IR + MCC route impacting finances & family stability.

4. One step at a time

[Iris9er]

Hello everyone
I'm thinking of starting flying school this or next year but I get more confused the more i dig the info about flying.
I'm a Pakistani i can't get a flying job in EU,Getting a visa to fly in NA is almost impossible for a Pakistani without any connection in the states,My country has only one airline airline hiring and they require 1,000+ hours on A320 for F/o so that's out of the option,other airlines are on their way to bankruptcy,
i really want to pursue this career but if i do my nationality will not get me a job almost anywhere except a few places,I'm thinking of either going to ATP for 0-1500hrs course for FAA ATPL or L3 for iATPL or MPL for EASA ATPL but I'm not sure wether i should do it or ditch my lifelong dream..

[parkfell]

The MPL route is only available if you are attached/sponsored by an airline.

So age, academic qualifications and ability to pass a medical are important factors.

You might consider being employed in aviation on the ground first, and taking it from there?

[Iris9er]

Youu might consider being employed in aviation on the ground first, and taking it from there?
That's the problem, I'm not a First world national getting a work visa would be more difficult than getting a job.
My questions is are their any other options like CATHAY which takes new pilots regardless of their nationality,Or wether should i go for ATPL at all or wait join a University get a job work my way into getting a green card or blue card and then start flight training because if one can save up 500,000$ he'd get a US greencard or 250,000€ for a belgium Blue card..

[Isotope Toast]

Hi everyone,I'm posting here out of desperation, because I have no more ideas and I'm frustrated. I'd like some advice, options and opinions of my fellow aviators.The long story, short...
Background:

-always wanted to be a pilot (cliche, but true)-went to ERAU, but found out the week before classes started, that flight training costs were NOT a part of tuition (I had no parents to read the fine print or anything - obviously my 18 year old self missed something important).-transferred out of Riddle, worked towards a BA, started flying lessons - got up to 40 hours (inconsistently) & ran out of money.-got a BA-got a job at a flight school in the marketing dept., full-time, and was looking forward to discounted flight training - or at least being able to finally afford it. However I let my naive self be taken advantage of - was paid way under any normal rate for my job & the living area. Left after 3 months.

Where I'm at now (in Europe):

-got a masters degree & a decent paying job (work in an office full-time). Still want to do nothing but fly.-my finances: make about 44K before taxes, after all bills & everything, I'm left with about $1400 (thanks also to GF just moving in!)-got the ppl and also work at the flight school as a Radiotelephony instructor, I also get to ferry the plane to and from maintenance when needed - not much, but 30 min here and there is better than nothing.-43 years old, 1st class medical-taking ATPL classes (well, only 80 hours of classroom instruction are required for this program). I've got 17 big thick binders & the corresponding online question bank trainer as well as AviationExam App. But it's me alone to study & prep.-pre-tests (with 80%), need to be taken by Nov. 3, before I can take the actual real tests (75% = passing).-In about 3 subjects I'm at or near 70%, with the others, I'm between 50 & 65% (flight planning and mass & balance I haven't even touched yet, aside from the classroom stuff).

The dilemma:-I feel like I don't have enough time to study. I'm lucky if I can squeeze out an hour a day going through the question bank trainers. I'm seeing improvement, but it's very very slow and I've only touched on a few of the subjects.-I've been giving this my all, literally. All my money, most of my time and most of my effort. I study most every night after work, and on weekends for 2-4 hours...but it doesn't seem to be enough.-Just this week I've tried studying an hour or so before work, and just going in & staying later so work tiredness/stress won't affect my studying.

My thoughts:-maybe I should just quit - obviously the universe doesn't want me to be a pilot, because no matter what I do, bigger and bigger walls get put up in front of me! (But then again damnit, it's all I want and I've already put in so much)...-quit the ATPL, buy a plane, fly for fun

- cut my job hours in half (and pay and vacation time) - and gain extra time to study...

-other than that, I'm not sure what else I can do or what else there is to do...Like I said above, I'm very frustrated right now and feel like I'm running through mud and the faster I try to run, the more walls get thrown up in front of me.So, if anyone out there has some good advice or novel ideas, I'd really appreciate hearing it.

[Highflyer2019]

Hello everyone,

I know there are a lot of similar threads like these, but some advice would be very much appreciated.

So here's my situation:

Currently 24 years old
Just before I finished high school (i.e. age of 18 in Europe) I applied for a flight academy and passed all the selection tests. I could have started, but I did not. Why? They told me that during that time the industry was having a hard time and I would probably had to fly in Asia (Western countries were saturated with pilots). Furthermore I met a girl during my last year in high school and was afraid this would put a lot of pressure on our relationship. We're currently still together and got a very stable relationship.
Started a 5-year engineering study after high school and graduated a year ago.
I have been working in an engineering company for around a little less than a year. I'm making good money, but I feel this kind of job is not my passion and not something I want to do for the rest of my life. (I already felt that way during my studies to be honest, but continued because I did not know what to study else).
Therefore I'm considering again to go to a flight school in order to become a pilot in a 2-year track.


Could you guys please advise me on the next questions?

Family life is important to me and my girlfriend made it clear that she does not want to move with me to another country assuming I would be an airline pilot, which I totally respect. I live in The Netherlands. Is it possible that you fly for let's say Lufthansa, you are based in Frankfurt, but live in Amsterdam and you would commute between these two cities? Is this something that occures frequently in Europe?
Is there at this time a good chance I can start flying in a country in Europe (and commute between the Netherlands & this specific country)?
Flying rosters like 5 days flying & 3 days off is fine. Are there also rosters (at e.g. low fair airliners) in which you depart and come back home at the same day?
Would my engineering degree (civil, not in aerospace) help getting hired at an airline? Or do airliners only care about the amount of hours you have flown?


Being an airline pilot is still my dream job and during my studies & current career I felt I should be flying and persue my passion. Yet as you have probably mentioned my family has priority and I don't think I would be able to move to another country which is 10.000km away, leave everyone behind and see them like once every 3 months. So you can be very honest to me: is becoming an airline pilot something realistic considering I would be able to commute, yet not move to another country?

I have been breaking my head around this for quite a while and some advice of people in the aviation industry would helpful ;-).

Cheers

[Neufunk]

Highflyer, I also saw your post on airwork.

Apply fast to the Tui Belgium MPL program. It will close soon. Commuting to Brussels shouldn't be hard at all.

[danak]

Hi guys,
From the age of around 5-6, I have always wanted to be a commercial airline pilot, its always been a dream of mine, yet I have always just considered it a dream, as I always knew my family would never have anywhere near the required funds to support me.

I recently have decided to look into becoming a pilot now that I am at a point of fairly high earning, with the possibility to pay over the next few years while training,
I'm absolutely hooked, for the last couple of months, I have gone to bed dreaming about being a pilot, and waking up thinking about it.

I am going into my mid-twenties, and considering buying a house with my partner, I have recently discussed with her that I might consider spending my savings, and working a lot harder to try to fulfil my dream as a pilot, yet shes very considered and worried about if it does not work out, as we will still be renting a property and be in our late 30's, this has made I have to consider this decision a lot.

My questions! :

1)
When I was at high school it was a very bad time for me, my mother was very ill, and my mum and dad were going through a divorce, meaning my dad had to work nearly every hour to try to get himself another property to live in.
So I had a very bad experience in school and ended up working 3 days a week, and doing school one day a week, I left school with little to none GCSE's, do you think this would be a major issue for me?, and if I was to go to college to sit GCSE'S, would a airline consider this as a bad thing?, thinking I was unable to complete school normally, and had to retake at college?

2)
I am self-employed, and earn a relatively high rate of pay (approx £3200 p/month) I live in a very expensive area of UK meaning that a large portion of this going on housing and general day to day living,
I would still have to work a lot while training to pay for the majority of training, I am wondering if somebody else has done that in here, and would be able to share their struggles, is it possible?, is it worth waiting around 5years to save up for a integrated course instead of doing modular at a slower rate? or is it possible to do it while still maintaining a good amount of work time, (obviously taking time off around exams).

Thank you all for reading the post!

any other suggestion's and or advice you can give would be gratefully appreciated!

[Sea15]

Hello everyone, my goal with this post is to hear your opinion about my plan, as most of you guys are already working in the aviation sector and got more life experience than me. I'm currently 23 years old and soon to obtain my master's degree.

My dream has always been to become a pilot (like almost everyone's dream here on this forum) and I'm planning to go the modular way to get my ATPL.My biggest concern is the job market. I always keep an eye on the development of the job situation for pilots, but it really came to my eyes, that there are only a handful of airlines that offer jobs to "fresh out of school low hour pilots". As the job market is facing a slight downturn in the coming years (just my perception), it feels impossible to find a job in 2/3 years by the time I'll be done with my ATPL.

Is it just the fear that makes me think like this (impossibility finding a job) or will this never change and taking the risk is just a part of becoming a pilot?As I'm able to work in the US, I was thinking, if I shouldn't find a job after two years of having my ATPL, I would convert my license to FAA and try my luck there. Would cost me a bit but as the job market is in a better condition over there, the chances of getting a job are higher.

Is there any advice you guys could give me? Is the situation here in Europe really as hopeless as it looks on the first view?Thanks in advance !

[Honestflyer]

Hi guys,
I have been researching online for a long time now regarding taking up PPL training, due to work annual leave constraints, I have decided the best course of action for me would be to take up a 'fast track' program later this year or early next year. Having done plenty of reading online I have decided that the best place for this would be in the US. I have a couple of questions in regards to this, and I know it may have been asked many times before on these forums, but I decided to join the PPRune community knowing that there will be plenty of honest, accurate knowledge and answers to help and guide me along.
Just to note, I am Irish and currently reside in Ireland, it would be my ultimate goal to fly for an airline based in Europe.
1. FAA or EASA PPL, which ultimately would be more sensible, hour building and value wise?
2.with a view to go professional and achieve CPL level sometime after completion of the PPL, would it be wise to take up the FAA licence, which I believe has additional night flying privileges, and build hours whilst achieving instrument rating?
3. I have read that once 100 hours TT has been reached it is Possible to convert the license including IFR to EASA, is this true? Is it a costly Process?The same rule across all EASA members states or it depends?
4. There is some schools in the US that teach the EASA PPL course,and at a bit of a premium too. but is there any point to travel all the way to the states to do this, rather than do it in the EU somewhere, when the FAA licence is taught pretty much everywhere of course in the US?
5. Recommendations for schools? I've researched a few, but any lessor known ones with a good reputation anywhere in the US would be appreciated.

I have so many thoughts and questions in regards to this training, it's easy to be overwhelmed by the amount of info online, I just wish to clarify some of these issues before I take the plunge, and commit to any training. Any help at all would be great.

Thank you

[rudestuff]

If you're going to train in the US, get an FAA private certificate. There's no point in getting an EASA one as you're only using it as a stepping stone.

You will save both time and money: There aren't meant EASA schools, which makes them among the most expensive. FAA only requires one exam and focuses on flying. You also won't need a night rating.

[ThyGreatRaymondinio]

Hi All,
I'm 18 years old, just finished my A-Levels and want to break into the world of Aviation and pursue my lifelong dream of becoming an Airline pilot.
I know there are a million other posts like this but I still have so many questions and would be so grateful if anyone can help at all!
I live in the UK and I'm aware of the whole Integrated VS Modular scenario.
I've seen L3 (they've changed name again to L3 Harris now?!) I've seen Oxford/CAE. Yes, they're great, but £100,000+ after everything? Seriously?
I've always been set on the whole integrated route, but the more I research and the more I talk to pilots, the more I'm swaying over to the modular route.
Financially, it is possible for me to get through the integrated route but it really would be a stretch (literally re-mortgaging the parent's home to get the funds together). This just seems ludicrous when I actually think about it, especially when the outcome of integrated and modular is the same.
Either way, I want to get cracking with this but I'm feeling like I'm stuck in a rut. I keep hearing stories of poor quality cadets being pushed through L3 and barely scraping through line training.
1) In terms of the modular route, upon completion of the ATPL qualification, can you begin the job hunting or is it necessary to have a type rating before making applications?
2) I know that no-one has a crystal ball but is it possible Brexit is going to through a spanner in the works in terms of recruitment in the next 3 years?
3) Is it true you really are "left all alone" after modular training, desperately trying to get an interview with all the jobs going to those integrated students? Is L3's "placement scheme" a load of baloney?
4) Is now the time to pursue any other interests e.g taking a year out to enjoy other hobbies etc. or is it still true airlines "love" the young pilots?
5) Do you know where I can find a clear 'road-map' of the Modular route layout, recommended schools, realistic pricing and timescale etc.?
6) Are there certain Airlines that particularly favour the integrated candidates, EZY pops straight in mind...
And generally just opinions and maybe even success stories of how modular/integrated has worked for you?
Any comments would be greatly appreciated,
Cheers!

[The Foxes]

Dear All,

I need advice on the following, please.

I have the chance to train here in Peru to CPL/IR and obtain a Peruvian licence that I believe is FAA accredited. My quandary is this... yes, it is something I've always wanted to do but life has gotten in the way over the years. I did start a PPL back in the day but couldn't continue. I'm an international school teacher and I've lived in several countries but I want to fulfill my dream. However, I am 47 and would finish the course aged 48. I am educated to post-grad level, keen as mustard and would go anywhere to fly. Do you think, in your experience, it is something I should pursue. I need to make it a career...I need a job. I really welcome your thoughts.
Best regards,
The Foxes

[CMM92]

Hi folks,

I’m relatively new here. First off, I want to say that this site has been immensely helpful.

I am 26 years old. My dream, since childhood, was to be a pilot. Unfortunatley, along the way, I had been ‘put off’, regarding the funding needed.

Fast forward a number of years, I have reclaimed that desire to become a pilot, it is frequently on my mind. Recently, got a decently paid job (Design Engineer) and now looking for that dream to become reality. My dilemma is, regarding my current role, I am contemplating, switching another role, within the company, to help save the necessary funds. The new role would require frequent travelling, but accommodation and other expenses, will be covered for, by the company, therefore allowing me to save a good amount of funds.
I previously applied to he 'Aer Lingus 2018 FFP' program and the 2019, but withdrew this year.
I aim to complete my ‘EASA Initial Class 1 Medical’, within the next 2 months. I want to start my PPL, soon, but I’m unsure of which school/club to join. I will want to gradually make my way to become an airline pilot. I am from Northern Ireland.

[FuturePilot_123]

CMM92,

Hope you are well.

Sounds like you are in a similar position to myself. I am currently working on my PPL, via a modular route. Studying and learning to fly in my free time, when I am not at work.
I strongly suggest getting the Initial Class 1 under your belt. It’s a big investment, but will honestly tell you whether you have a standing chance to become an airline pilot. It’s better to get this done first, than further down the line after investing so much in your hour building etc.

I’m more than willing to chat over DM. Drop us a line.

Best regards.

[CMM92]

Hello FP,
Thanks for some your advice. Regarding the other job role, that may potentially happen, would it be wise to accept it, save up as much as I can and then do flight-training or continue with my current role, save up a bit and do flight training.

I have seen that advice posted alot, so I have the Class 1 medical booked for the end of November. I am slightly nervous about failing it, but I am optimistic.

Thanks again, mate, any more questions I’ll send you a message.

[Beaker_]

I'm in the process of shortlisting flying schools with a view to visiting them in the next few months in order to come to a final decision. At present, I'm thinking of looking at the following:

Bournemouth Commercial Flight Training
Stapleford Flight Centre
Diamond Flight Academy
Bartolini Air

From looking at previous posts here, they all appear to have good feedback. I was wondering if there are any others I should seriously consider adding to the list or if anyone has comments about my existing choices. I'm interested in any schools in the UK or Europe. Thanks you in advance for any feedback!

[miguel22]

All of them are one of the best and more serious schools in Europe. I believe if you decide to any of them, you will be well served.

Bartolini count with 1 year waiting list. If you are ready at any moment you might be lucky and pick a spot from someone that gave up but the current waiting time is around 1 year. I believe is more of less the same situation for Diamond but maybe other people can conform this.

Good luck :ok:

[Ronaldsway Radar]

Can't comment on the others but Stapleford are highly recommended.

I completed MEP, CPL MEIR there recently, in minimum hours, on budget, with first time passes thanks to the excellent instruction and support. Took 3 months from start to finish (almost to the day). On the budget front, my net spend at the end of everything was within £200 of the quotation I received. Can't really argue with that - nothing was hidden or misleading. Also the commercial team are fully dedicated to getting everything sorted for you and are top notch.

On site accommodation is perfectly reasonable, nothing special, but lets face it you're there to fly!

[Beaker_]

That's great; thank you for the feedback. The waiting times aren't an issue; I'm planning ahead :)

[AeroSearcher]

100 percent without a doubt must obtain a college degree to be competitive when applying for a job with one of the major commercial airlines (in the United States at least.) I would recommend your idea of ERAU or another University offering programs that partner with Airlines. Here are a few others: Arizona State University, Purdue University, University of North Dakota, Oklahoma State University. You can find additional University options by going to AeroSearcher and typing in “aviation universities” to the general aviation tab. Good luck!

[Kuba2401]

Hi, this is my first post here on PPRuNe.
I'm 19, I'm from Poland and this year I want to start the ATPL course. Right now I am considering the options I have and which path should I take to become an airline pilot: should I do the integrated ATPL in a private school, apply to the academies like BAA training or go directly to the airline and join something like WizzAir cadet program.
Is it worth paying much more and is that increasing my chances of finding a good job in the future as a pilot?
I would love some advice, feedbacks
Thanks

[parkfell]

ask again in 12 months once the impact of C-19 is known. Go to University and get a good degree

[giggitygiggity]

Starting a 3/4 year uni course in autumn 2020 is probably about as sensible option as you can go for right now - certainly not a 16 month flight training course!

The world is on pause and you need to figure out how you can ride out that pause. Either work in whatever you can find, although that limits earning potential, or perhaps study in an inexpensive manner. University in my country is fairy expensive, but relatively affordable considering the three to four years it takes to get a degree and loans on offer.

Pick a valuable course, the only sure thing about coronavirus is that nations are going to have to increase their budgets for biological sciences and virology so a degree in that field is probably your safest bet if you’ve got the qualifications. Medicine is always a good shot, but you need to be best in your school for science and realistically, if that was the case, your teachers would be pushing you in that direction anyway without having to defer to PPrune.

2020 is categorically not the year to embark on a flight training course. Aviation will never be the same. The earliest I’d imagine it would return to 2019 levels is perhaps 2024-5? Ride this gap out doing something useful and constructive as a flight training course is, totally redundant right now!

[Pascal_JL]

It has always been my dream to be an airline pilot however I did not take A level Maths and Physics because my GCSE grades didn't allow me to. I then found out that if I wanted to do an ATPL course I need A level Maths and Physics or I have to do a CPL but I won't be able to fly for an airline with that. Is there any way that I can do my ATPL without the A level Maths and Physics as a requirement.
Thanks

[tsvpilot]

The only requirements for self-funded ATPL are class 1 medical and PPL (private pilot) license. You will only need elementary level knowledge of maths & physics to complete ATPL. Airlines may then have their own entry requirements which may require A level maths/physics or university degree etc.

[henrique2020]

Hi everyone

I see some people asking about going to flight school now, Wizz cadet (doubt they will have one now), my opinion, and this is my opinion, if you are young, get a degree, have a back up plan if you can, or maybe consider going the modular path.
Currently and in Europe only, there are a few thousand pilots unemployed, and im pretty sure once this picks up, they will be the first ones getting employed by the "surviving companies" this, if they need them.
I think at least until 2023 the hiring will be veryyy slow.

[henrique2020]

I didn't have that and did both exams in my school, which were pretty easy and straight forward.

[Nickedname]

Hi all,
I seek your advice as I plan to pursue a career in aviation in Australia.
Corona will make things very difficult for an inexperienced pilot over the coming several years so I feel it's important to go about my studies gradually and with a plan in mind.
Initially I had intended to fly rotorwing, though decided against this reasoning the career path more difficult than fixed wing and the mid/late career earning potential heavily favouring an airline job. To scratch a helicopter itch I can always fly as a hobby in the future.
I'm 26 and have sufficient funds to cover my study and living expenses without relying upon full-time work. I'm not interested in pursuing an office job in future or continuing in self-employment at present so thought investing in myself and a flying career to be worthwhile.
I had intended to commence an integrated course early next year however will instead opt for a modular route and gradual self study with textbooks and online resources. When I return to Australia I was thinking of relocating to Townsville. Can you recommend schools/aero clubs/contacts in this region for me to consider? I thought it might also be beneficial to take excursions to other places across the state and elsewhere to build hours, diverse experience and networks.
I've been keenly reading the advice posted here about suggestions for new students and the nearterm uncertainty caused by coronavirus. As a result I'm thinking to acquire my PPL and gradually chip away at hours and theory exams. I'll delay finishing my CPL until international travel returns and only then should i start adding IR, multi engine and other endorsements.
Its not fantastic timing though perhaps not off by much if I can acquire my CPL in mid 2022. I believe that within the next 4-5 years the industry will rebound and that this crisis and the coming economic crisis (note: you should not be buying stocks here, you should be playing defensive) will present a new opportunities.
Thanks for any advice you have.

[rudestuff]

I'll delay finishing my CPL until international travel returns and only then should i start adding IR, multi engine and other endorsements.
Are you saying you'll get your CPL before the IR? That's generally a very expensive mistake.

At your age you've got time on your side - and nationality. Why not consider a few years in the US? You can get both fixed wing and helicopter CPLs for less than you'd spend in Australia for just fixed wing - and have the opportunity to instruct to build flight time and work for regionals on an E1.

[Nickedname]

Thanks for this.

Aha, so things like SEIR (and others I'm assuming) are good to get during the course of CPL as they contribute hours towards CPL and will be necessary for first a first job anyway. This is what I'll have to try and figure out.

Learning in the US is an interesting idea, though i do have a spouse. I'll have to do some more research on E1 visa and school/location options.

Thanks so much.

[Nickedname]

I believe its the F1* visa you're talking about and there exists an F2 for spouse/dependants. I just had a brief look at some options for training and yeh its a whole lot cheaper. Looks like i can get CPL CFI CFII MEIR and multi engine CFI for around 70k- 80k, AUD whereas in aus this is running >120k.

​​Also AUD/USD is on the come up on the back of C19 and fed printing, so US training will only get "cheaper".

This looks like a great option, now to decide on california, arizona, florida, nevada or elsewhere for a school...

[rudestuff]

It's a lot cheaper than that mate, give me a PM if your want pointers.

​​​​​ Oh, and look up E3 visas 👍

[Nickedname]

Aha! So I can initially go on an F1 visa then change to an E3 when receive a job offer which allows 2 year extensions on an unlimited basis. Nice.

Ill PM too. Thanks

[rudestuff]

It has always been my dream to be an airline pilot however I did not take A level Maths and Physics because my GCSE grades didn't allow me to. I then found out that if I wanted to do an ATPL course I need A level Maths and Physics or I have to do a CPL but I won't be able to fly for an airline with that. Is there any way that I can do my ATPL without the A level Maths and Physics as a requirement.
Thanks
1 You don't need A levels to become a pilot.
2 You don't need an ATPL to fly for an airline
3 Your first professional licence will be a CPL
4 You can only get an ATPL once you've got enough airline experience (with your CPL)
5 Stop making excuses and become a pilot

[Modular Halil]

Hear hear! Those academic requirements are for courses for the likes of easyj or FR, stuff you generally want to avoid getting mixed in with (few others had a very very bad experience) but there's generally no academic requirements to become a pilot just do your exams and it generally shows your capable. The longer you dwell on a levels that won't matter the longer you have till your flying


P.s sure a levels may be relevant when shortlisting candidates, however im not too sure.

[parkfell]

Arithmetic; Sin/Cos/Tan is as difficult as it gets.
Physics at GCSE/Nat 5 is adequate. Boyle Law: Charles Law for meteorology is fine.

Get your Class One Medical first. Then PPL course & follow the modular route when the C-19 tsunami abates.

[African_TrouserSnake]

This sums it up. Don't think to much about the requirements, too be honest I think you're better off if you go in with a general understanding of maths and physics, such that you can absorb whatever EASA requires you to learn without doubt or hesitation.

An higher degree can work against you if they coincide with your ATPL subjects (mech/electr. engineer, medical students, etc). The exam questions often require a 'dumbed down' thinking pattern and are sometimes blatantly wrong, which favors the ones without in-depth knowledge beyond the atpl books.

[parkfell]

..... The exam questions often require a 'dumbed down' thinking pattern and are sometimes blatantly wrong, which favors the ones without in-depth knowledge beyond the atpl books.

Last century when the CAA set the exams pre JAR/EASA we had retired RAF A2 join the flying club as a part time instructor, aged 55.
He had decided to sit the CPL exams which were split into NAV BLOCK & TECH BLOCK.
The paper in question was DC ELECTRICS.

As an experienced aviator, he had flown Nimrod, Jetstream, Bulldog to name but a few. This question arose which completely baffled him, as the correct answer was three of the four responses depending which type from his experience he had flown. A C152 pilot would have known the “correct”.

In those days you could phone up the CAA and speak to the exam dept. The lady answering the phone said that they had been many phones complaining about that paper. He passed the resit.

[Thezk77]

Hello all,
I'll start by telling you all that I'm a complete newbie to the aviation industry as my only method of learning of it is reading of it for years (so don't go too hard on me). I'm currently a year 12 student who is looking at preferences for the future, with a major one being getting a bachelor in science (professional pilot) from a university flight school. I've been considering this avenue for years now, but this pandemic has put extra strain on my thoughts. My first issue is the availability of jobs in Victoria. I understand that pilot jobs are clearly not everywhere, forcing some to go interstate to find work, but this is a very unlikely scenario for me to undertake (family stuff = little to no chance). This means I'm limited to finding jobs in Victoria if there are even enough AUS wide for a graduate pilot! This on top of many other commercial plots losing work makes me feel as if my other not so interesting career avenues are more of a reality. The pandemic has also made me think about "backup" degrees, and I was wondering if any of you got a degree before going into flight school (which seems like a nice but EXTRA expensive idea).
In conclusion, commercial aviation would be a dream career for me, but is it really worth it in this day and age in this situation?
Thank you and please go easy
:)

[rudestuff]

'Pilot' isn't generally a career which allows you to chose where you live mate. Your first job might be in Botswana, your second in Vietnam etc.. It's not like getting a 'job' in the town you live - you have to make huge sacrifices in your personal life to make it work: basically you have to be prepared to give up everything for the job then rebuild your life around it. Christ that makes it sound depressing! 😂

[DawnChorus]

Thezk77

Yup, I’m in year 12, seemed quite easy, I got good grades in GCSE, predicted good grades for A level, was all happy thinking I could get tagged by an airline and QuickTime do an integrated program be a pilot by 21 etc etc, but corona hit and it’s made me rethink my options, slowing down entry to training is my best bet as pilot demand will still be there after this is over, no one is just going to stop Flying for holidays / meeting family etc . I’m thinking of doing a degree apprenticeship (get your degree fully funded +16,000 to 21,000 (Exc tax) year starting salary from your first year of uni at 18), spend 4 years at either BAe Or Airbus so I can say I have worked around aeroplanes in a mechanical engineering / aerospace engineering degree. This will 1. Get me a degree, 2. Help towards funding my flying 3. Delay my entry to training which is really important as big corona has made a show and is sacking people from pilot and other jobs rapidly, hope my view on things helped

[Modular Halil]

Id also like to weigh in here, as you see, pilots have been made redundant, with no back up plans, they go straight from college to a big ATO get their licences and go straight into an airbus, to find out their career options are narrow, an ATPL mean virtually nothing to any job thats not a flying job IMO, hense why people say go to uni first but you can always do the course along side your flying, its personal preference. The state of the industry you're better off going to uni than train intergrated at the current moment, at least a uni course will keep you busy and you can do your PPL along side your uni course just until the industry picks up...which it will....eventually.

[Blackbird0242]

As someone in university studying on a pilot programme and doing my PPL at the same time, do be careful of the university you chose. The level varies vastly, especially from the US to the UK, i'm quite disappointed actually of some standards in the UK and would highly recommend not doing a pilot programme. Rather an engineering programme or a related field you enjoy. Also beware that modular costs are too still very high, especially in the UK. So at the end of the day the choice you make going into the industry varies largely on the state of the industry and how fast you are able to enter it and make your money back from it. You are a young laddy and by the time you're ready to go for a job interview we shall all hope the economy and industry is booming again. Back to topic, choose a degree you will be passionate about rather than trying to match it to aviation as it wont greatly help you as a pilot. Best of luck.

[parkfell]

Blackbird0242

Would I be right in saying that you were taking the CAE aptitude testing a few weeks ago, and yet you are on a University course ~ pilot program ?

I would agree with you about choosing a course which interests you, preferably not aviation related
(broadens your horizons), and not the status of ‘Underwater basket weaving’.

[Blackbird0242]

Yes, you would be right. During year 2 at my university you are required to sit the atpl exams as they count as credits towards your degree. CAE has a strong connection with my school but is not the only option, it is just close by and convenient as are all oxford flight schools.

[Cilla1989]

Hello,

I am after some advice and general guidance please, mainly on if my plan seems achievable:

I am 31 years old and I am currently in the Royal Navy (not aircrew). I have 8.5 years left to serve and I am interested in a career in aviation.

I am looking to begin training via a modular route. I am on the waiting list (awaiting the fallout from COVID) at a flying school to begin my PPL(A) followed by IR(R).

I plan to try and hour build in the local area over the next 6/7 years, but also while deployed abroad to keep it interesting and experience new scenery/views. Then around 2027/2028 start to undertake ATPL theory, Commercial Pilot Training, MEP, CB/IR, UPRT and MCC, leading to a fATPL by the time I leave the Armed Forces in 2029.

I plan on self funding throughout and I have the means to do this. I am settled in a good house with my wife and two kids. We have no current debt other than a mortgage and my wife is on a good salary as a scientist.

The advice I am seeking is... First of all, is this a realistic and sensible plan?
I believe so myself, however all the research I have done is so confusing and conflicting. I want to ensure I have not missed anything out and that I am taking the best/most cost effective route.

Next - Am I being realistic in thinking I would stand a chance at a career with an airline at the age of 40? I am hoping that my 22 years military career will be of some benefit in an interview perhaps (life experience, disciplined etc)? But age seems a real issue from what I have read, with airlines prefering 20/21 yr olds. I am particularly keen to hear from anyone who has entered the pipeline at an older age to detail any challenges/hurdles they have faced.

The biggest issue I am having and the dilemma I question every day is this... Am I wasting my time dreaming of this career and it really isn't achievable for someone my age.

I realise I am in a good position with a full military pension in my back pocket at age 40, so therefore the risk I suppose is a lot lower than some. But I always like to know what I am getting myself in to...

Any advice greatly appreciated, further expansion on any of the commercial courses also appreciated, in particular the CB/IR (very confused by this).

Also apologies if the questions I have asked have already cropped up. I have found similar but nothing substantial that has answered my questions.

Thanks

[parkfell]

A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step.

I am sure you are medically fit, but obtain a Class One Medical before your PPL phase. The ATO will be best place to answer your on going questions.
Age can be an issue, as hiring will tend to favour the younger brethren.

Probably more chance of being hired by a turbo prop operator aged 40; that will undoubtedly require a move.
Instructing is another option for late starters.

Look up EASTERN & LOGANAIR for TP operators.

Have a Plan B.

[rudestuff]

Loads of aviation careers start at 40. Nothing unusual there. This thread is titled "My dream" - if it really is your dream then why is there any doubt?

The most cost effective UK based approach? PPL, night, IRR, MEP, CBIR (ME), CPL (SE) in that order.

The CBIR is basically a reduced amount of training and experience before you take the IR test. The traditional 55 hour course is way too long for all but the slowest learners, which makes CBIR the preferred route, plus it avoids simulator time. Simulators are great when they're used correctly to repeat maneuvers etc, but they rarely are: They're usually used to fill out the IFR requirements for the IR. So although SIM hours count towards the IR, they can't be logged as flight time for your CPL (and ATOs can charge almost as much for a SIM as an SEP!) . Doing a CBIR and reducing SIM time by using a single engine plane instead actually kills two birds with one stone and saves a fortune. The biggest mistake you can make in flight training is getting a PPL, hour building, getting a CPL then getting an IR. That's 45 hours of training after they've hit 200 hours and got their CPL. By simply getting your IR before your CPL you can incorporate the IR training into existing flying and save thousands.

[Cilla1989]

Thankfully, moving away isn't a huge deal to be honest, I am used to being away from home for long periods, sometimes over 8/9 months at a time. In fact I am 99% sure my wife prefers it to be honest!

I am aware of Logan Air already and they have not long started operating out of my local airport (Southampton) so therefore that would be an ideal option. I will certainly take a look at Eastern.

I'm well aware that there are options other than the 737/A320 and I am more than open to other A/C types.

[Cilla1989]

Also, there is always a plan b, thankfully the Military rely on ex serviceman as instructors a lot of the time. I am currently an instructor at the moment for trainees, therefore as a fallback I am sure I could do that.

@RUDESTUFF thanks for the advice. This is the main area I am confused with, the order of the training! I will certainly research the way you have suggested and work out a realistic timeline and financial contribution.

[Modular Halil]

Cilla1989

You could do it quicker than 6/7 years and still have a good couple of years just under 15 if you get there soon. However I wouldnt recommend going intergrated 100% modular due to corona virus but make sure, I cant stress this enough, make sure you can hold a class 1 medical your local AME should issue you one providing you have no major issues.

[mikeax]

Hello,

My thought is to start with ATPL theory classes during the autumn. I have not paid the initial fee because I'm not 100% sure yet. I want to do that full time in a class room in that case. Me, personally, like being prepared. Especially since it costs money and will consume a lot of my time. Because of this I started looking for ATPL books on a local website. I found a guy selling books for a fairly cheap price. I feel like that is a good investment to start reading now to be more prepared. The one thing that concerns me is that the books are from Nordian (2018 edition). In the ATPL theory I will use the books from Bristol.

In terms of the price for the Nordian books, I'll take it as long as that will give me some sort of advantage. What are your thoughts about the ATPL books from Nordian? Are they good enough to thank myself for starting my studies earlier? My goal is not to write any exams based on these books, just to get a grasp of every subject. Since the guy is selling the books from a really low price, I'm very interested. What are your thoughts about doing that?

[redsnail]

Thezk77. What's stopping you from going interstate? Not sure where you're living in Vic but you'll be the luckiest person alive that will never have to leave their hometown for this industry... Righto, if you have deep pockets, you can get lucky if you get an instructor rating and get work with a company that has access to multi engine charter.

Degrees are nice but not essential in Australia. As many Virgin and Qantas pilots are finding out now, a big fat log book is worth nothing when no one is employing. A degree that's 10 years old and no relevent experience isn't particularly useful either. However, this is the future. Right now, you're better off keeping your costs down, and getting something that's useful in the short term.

[truckflyer]

mikeax

I had the Nordian books around 7-8 years ago, they are not very good.

The best that time was Bristol and Oxford, the rest did not make me very impressed.

[flyingkeyboard]

Cilla1989

I’m in a similar position to you, in that I’m in the RAF, but with 5 years until my EDP point (I’m 35 in a few months). Too late to leave now and I enjoy my current job so I’ll ride it out until I’m 40. The aim is to be qualified around a year to six months befor I leave. PPL is almost finished (you’ll love it!) so now I’m considering what to do ref hour building. I’m open minded, however I do think that we (military) are fairly versatile and can draw on a lot of experience dealing with people, problems, technology, crises, etc. Regarding the age issue, pretty much every instructor I’ve come across has been positive and until Covid came along they were talking about getting a job not being an issue. A few days ago I was chatting with a BA recruiter and A380 pilot; he said In his opinion, that things will pick up in a few years and the demand for pilots will be there, which was encouraging.

I used all of my ELCs towards the PPL and if you are down south, I can recommend a decent military affiliated club which has very competitive rates for aircraft hire/instruction. Drop me a pm.

[absid]

Did not think I would like it as much as I did. Just a quick question: In your opinion, is it a good time to get into aviation, what with the new plague? Do you think it will pay off within, say, two years time?

I'm open to any and all advice as a newcomer, so general advice is appreciated as well. Also, I'm not familiar with a lot of abbreviated terms, so if possible, put what they mean in parentheses.

Thanks!

[parkfell]

Do your PPL and see how it goes. Don’t give up the day job.
As for professional employment as a pilot, plan on not before 2024

[Ermak]

Hello there,

I am a Russian citizen currently in year 10 of school (I graduate in 2022 and turn 18 in 2023). I have excellent English knowledge and am good in maths and physics, am physically fit too.

Due to my eyesight (astigmatism) I am unable to obtain a Russian medical certificate, so the only option of pilot training I'm looking at right now is integrated ATPL courses (cadet programs endorsed by airlines) Europe. Now the problem is, obviously, that I am a Russian citizen. Most flight schools require EU/EEA citizenship.

The only one I found that might work for me is Wizz Air Academy, because they only require you to be a citizen of one of their base countries (thankfully, Wizz is opening a base in my city this year). It is also attractive to me because the upfront cost is only 15000 euros.

My question is: Is there a real chance of me getting into the Wizz Air program vs say, a EU citizen? If not, are there any other schools that do not require EU citizenship to enroll?

Thanks in advance.

[rudestuff]

Since when do you have to be an EU citizen to study in the EU? With the correct visa you should be able to go to flight school anywhere. As for €15,000 - that's probably just the upfront cost, the total will be 4-5 times that amount. There is a huge pilot surplus at the moment, so you won't find an airline to sponsor you unfortunately.

[Ermak]

Most airline endorsed integrated ATPL programs that I've seen (Air Baltic, for example) require that you hold an EU/EEA/CH passport to apply. In any case, I doubt they'd be likely to pick me over any EU citizen, considering the pilot surplus.

The €15,000 is indeed just the upfront cost - however- the rest is paid off via increments off your salary after you've been released from line training as an Airbus FO - which I think is a very good thing.

[rudestuff]

I think you've been misinformed, that's about as believable as seeing a unicorn.

[Ermak]

That's quite unfortunate, thanks for the information though.

I still have the reserve option of going to a Russian aviation university, but there's a hiccup with obtaining a medical (could possibly get eye surgery to circumvent that).

The main reason I wanted to try EU is because I believe that the Russian aviation philosophy is incorrect and unsafe, starting from the way pilots are taught to fly and going all the way up to how management treats safety-related issues.

I guess there's no easy way, haha! Either way, I'll give it a try. "Make them tell you no", as C. W. Lemoine says...

If I do get in somehow, be it in EASA or Russia, I'll check in here with my experience in a couple of years.

Thanks everyone for the advice!

[parkfell]

William Pitt the Younger, gave some accurate advice (1806) which is probably apposite for those thinking about embarking on a flying career. “Roll up the map of Europe.......”

He quoted 10 years. Plan on somewhere in the region of five years.

[flystar320]

i am currently in air arabia with the temporary contract and i wish i didnt spent all those money for such.
First of all, you need to know 1500HRS ARE NOT GAURANTTED. Knowing this must be the most important before you make a decision. many of cadets have been terminated without completing 1500hrs nor ATPLl.
You can be terminated during alpha training as well as line training. even after line release, you can be fired any time.

This is a fact. as a second officer or first officer trainee(this is the designation till you get a permanent contract, if you ever get it) you can be fired any time without completing your hours and i have seen those a lot.

When I registered alpha aviation academy, I was told that the course takes 2years and 98% of people get the contract. it took 4years for me and my batchmates. 16 of us started at the beginning but they terminated 2 after ground school(already paid 2 installment) and continuously fired ppl till the end of the course. I know those who completed entire course got terminated and people who were under line training as well.

Probably only a little more than half of us survived till now and no one received the permanent contract. Some got terminated due to attitude problem (don't you think this attitude problem can be very personal? Sometimes you say something right and can be considered as a person with attitude problem) and others got terminated due to performance matter.


You never know if you are going to be outstanding, average or below standard in terms of flying skill. Some are gifted others are not. Ive seen people who got fired even after line training as well.
I understand you all want to see the bright side of the school because you want to become a pilot so badly and i was the same. but reality is different from what they say or what you think.

You really have to have a plan B if you are going to step into this program. with this pandemic i know guys who got terminated without completing 1500hrs and some without ATPL as well. Anyone tell me what these guys going to do, after spending 5-6years and AED 700,000.

This MPL license without 1500hrs is nothing. If you are serious about this program at least you can call or visit school and ask them if this is true or not. if you end up without ATPL after all, you just wasted your time and money and i have absolutely seen them and i am not talking about just 1 or 2 persons.

Now what options do they have? I guess they will go to USA and do CPL and build the flying hours till they make 1500hours, which means they will most probably need minimum of 100,000 dollars and another 2years more.

[flystar320]

They used to pay AED5000 per month but now they reduced it till 3500 prorated. if you fly for 10days a month, your salary will be AED1170 only. I think they can eventually remove this as well because no one will brave enough to complain when you need your hours to get your ATPL.

Once you enter this MPL cadet course, you become their slave. what I mean is you cannot be against whatever they do whichever they change regardless of whatever was said in the beginning. You won't be able to say anything to them because they are the one who evaluates you, decides your sequence for the training.

Now I heard even the batch number is not considered for the training sequence. they made the list and now everything depends on it. Now the important things are when you made a payment and what marks you got on the exams only. this is ridiculous. at least it was fair before when I was in alpha. right now it is absolutely unfair and you never know when your turn to be for your next training.

I heard students complain but now sure if they are going to change this any time soon. imagine even for your graduation certificate and any letters you request for cost AED100 from some day. this is really shocking. after taking AED700,000, they cant even offer the certificates. they were free previously. they decided to make money using every single stuff. visa renew is 2000 every year and medical is 1500 every year.

if you already entered school i'm sure you already figured out what kinda world you stepped in.. But if you still have a chance not to enter this academy, you better look for something else. or you get all the information about how it goes there and see if what i mentioned is true or not. after all, if you still want to join alpha. I respect your opinion by all means. but don't just step in without knowing what is waiting for you. I have to say it used to be a lot nicer but right now it isn't clearly the best choice, till they change many things.

[mizzist]

can this be legal? One of my friends in this MPL course is suffering a lot from the delay. planned for 2 years but Already been more than 3years and not done with the coarse spent all the money he prepared and has to start returning the loan Now if they don’t provide salary he will be really in deep :mad: Already looks so bad though

[Igor2909]

rudestuff

Well actually Wizz Air is sponsoring training program... is not just the upfront cost as you say

[gpiper]

Eventually the market will pick up and return to the pre Covid 19 rhythm. A brief background about me, I have been through the modular route from 2013-2016, September 2016 was my last session if I remember correctly on my MCC course, in November I was called for an interview by 3 airlines, one major low cost airline the other a flag carrier of a Southern EU country and a small ACMI operator in the Balkans.

Decided to go all in with the flag carrier, learned the profile, had covered my ATPLs already(this should be a continuous process after you are done with the course) and I was already fresh with my IR flying. While abroad going through the interview process of the Southern EU flag carrier I was called by the other 2 carriers for an assessment, I had to close the doors to the other 2 which was a foolish and risky move but I was very short of money, couldn't learn the profiles that they have sent in a week and did not even have the money to travel there and stay in a hotel for 2 nights just to go through the interview process which I knew I wasn't gonna pass as I was unprepared and needed at least 2 sim sessions just to get familiar with the scanning of that aircraft but also with the profiles(gone through a generic MCC course)

Needless to say the only reason it took me 3 years to get the CPL was because I did not have the money from the beginning, had to interrupt my training several times, but I though if I stick to one flight school then I could at least continue my training without delays when I had the funds to continue and to control the only variable which I could which was consistency.

Bear in mind that my school did not offer integrated training at all, and it only received the approval for the CPL and IR right when I finished my hour building there. So I was the first student pilot to have done all the training at that school and was the first to obtain a CPL/IR in that country from a local school.
So I have done my PPL Night Rating Hour Building MEP CPL IR and MCC at that school (outside the UK but within EU) no one knew the school apart from the locals and I only did my ATPLs in UK specifically at a school which has been bought over by CTC back in 2015.

In December 2016 I began my type rating on the A320 and I have been flying ever since( Although I am on unpaid leave now for almost a month...)

The reason I briefly discussed my training background is to make everyone both experienced and aspiring pilots understand that there is hope. It's not about how much money you have, nor at which school you did your flight training or how smart or stupid someone is.

Employment in aviation has never been easy and it might be at it's worst now, but for the aspiring pilots, if you got the aviation bug inside you, if you know that this is what you want to do for the rest of your life then go for it. Ignore what other people say, once someone makes it on the seat they start discouraging other people forgetting that before they managed to get their first job, they have been hearing the same BS from others.

Important points that you should keep in mind which I wish someone has told me before I even started my training.

1) Confirm with your self first of all that this is indeed what you want to do for most of your career.

2) Confirm that you or your family can finance the training, it's only gonna make it harder if you don't have the money from the start and will stress you and demotivate you.

3) Obtain a Class 1 Medical before you do anything else.

4) Preferably start your training after you have finished school, regarding going to Uni for a degree, I tend to believe that this is unnecessary, reason being that you will waste 3 years of your time and money for something that you are not planning to do for the rest of your life as your goal eventually is to sit to the right hand seat of an airliner. Having a degree with no experience it's the same as not having a degree. You always have the option to do a top up degree or even a masters after you start flying, plenty of Uni's out there who offer descend courses online, much cheaper for experienced professionals.

5) Stay on top of things, always study hard, read the books and manuals you paid for, never leave anything behind and if helpful always have a note book for each subject which will help you save time in revising for an exam or an interview for that matter. Question banks should be referred to after you have covered the syllabus for each subject, aim is to learn something along the way not memorize, pass the exams then forget.

6) Be punctual and act professionally from a young age, refrain from acting childish, or exhibiting a risky behavior, keep fit, eat well and chase girls.....

7) Do a research on what each school offers, number of sittings for the exams, experience of the instructors, type of aircraft they use weigh the pros and cons and compare them to what you thing it's best for you (everyone has different abilities and capacity, don't do what others do, do what's best for you), an integrated course might be good for someone who has a truck full of money, or isn't a punctual or disciplined enough, modular schools on the other hand offer this and this but not this.. it's up to you to decide, just do not get in the trap and choosing a school purely because they advertise that they will get you a job eventually once you finish your training, if it's one thing I hate about the aviation industry is that training organizations just want your money and they are masters in marketing, you need facts and guarantees which no one will give you unfortunately. Chase quality and consistency, find one school that offers all modules if you decide to go modular or at least most of them.

8) If it takes you longer to complete your training as it happened to me, use this to your advantage, if it's one thing I believe has helped me during my training was the bad weather, and lack of funds to continues plus a few other things. These setbacks gave me the time to revise, stay at home read ahead of the syllabus, and keep my knowledge up to standard and fresh both for my skills tests, and interview in the long run, nothing goes wasted, the more effort you put the more the chances are to succeed. Success might not come immediately, but eventually will come, after you are done with your training, and it's time to to apply for an airlines for a job, keep revising, if you have the money invest into other books which will help you in passing the technical assessment of an airline. I recommend "Handling the big jets", "Get a Head for the sky" and "EASA Professional Pilot Studies"
Also some other books I found useful particularly for my IR training are "Air Pilot't Manual Radio Nav and Instrument flying" , " Never get Lost" and ICAO DOC 8168 Vol 1

9) Last but not least, do not expect any instructor whether in theory or actual flying to spoon feed you. You need to be prepare on your own, they will teach you the bear minimum, it's your job to revise at home before and be prepared for the next day, once you star training, it's always nice to know that until you get the first type rating on your cpl, you got no life...(It really helps if you start training with that mind set, these should clear the lamb from the sheep)... Also, one you get your CPL, consider saving money to keep all of your rating valid, and interview might come days, months or years after you obtained your CPL, and usually it comes in a very short notice with people panicking and going for an assessment totally unprepared, so plan your training wisely from the start and be prepared for the long run(validations) .

Now I know I keep repeating what other people have said in this forum, but I felt the need to contribute into this matter as now it's the worst time in history for someone to get involved in aviation and still no one should discourage others, this is my personal view, and I believe all the points I mentioned above plus my past experience will greatly help people who really want to fly some day.

I apologize if the order of my post is confusing, I did the best I could to make it as clear and as understandable as possible.

[parkfell]

gpiper

An interesting read which demonstrated that you indeed have the ‘bug’ to succeed.

Your 4) Whilst there are some individuals who are quite mature aged 18, this is generally not the case.
Going into higher education prior to flying is all part of becoming a more rounded individual, and is probably not to be discouraged.
After all even with a degree, you have 40+ years of potential flying ahead.

Your 6) Time keeping is a critical aspect of professional flying. A small measure of OCD probably helps? Arriving in the crew room a minute before Report Time will not endear you to your Captain for the day. Word will spread.
Generally speaking arriving before the Captain gives the impression of being keen & eager. Apply common sense to this issue.

As for flight school, if you are not (at least) five minutes early,
YOU ARE LATE.

I shall refrain from making comment about ...”and chase girls”...
as this comes under the heading of ‘shark infested custard’.

[gpiper]

parkfell

thank you for taking the time to read my post and reply,

indeed with (4) what I think is that it's not black or white, each individual should weigh the pros and cons of going into higher education, and be aware of what they are about to embark in.
I my self made years ago the decision to join higher education purely for obtaining a degree which would help me eventually to secure a job as a first officer faster, never though about the part of becoming a more rounded individual, but it is something that an 18 year old should consider.
It did not wok out, while it was a reputable university(again another reason why I decided to join uni), in the end I just didn't like the course and financially it was a dead end, it was either the one or the other.

Bottom line is that I agree with you, it's just down to each individual to decide what it is best for them, a distance learning course after getting a job is always available but I can tell you with
much certainty the university life years are irreplaceable, fun and they only come once...

As for the rest, you summed it pretty well!

[G1raffee]

Hello guys,
I have just turned 18 and I'm in last year of HS in my country which is Poland. That means I am just now in a position I have to make decicions regarding my future. I've been decided on going for it for a long time. I was about to go to the college that would make it possible for me to get ATPL frozen. However due to a situation with the global pandemic I am not sure anymore if I should keep going. What are your predictions regarding aviation overall? Is it going to be reborn like a phoenix and if yes when?

Or is it gonna fall to the very bottom and there will be no job even in like 5-6 years, especially for a possible newbies in the industry, freshly became pilots? Shall I look for something else facing those kind of doubts in future like no job after difficulties of aquiring license?

Thanks for any future answers

[crbnftprnt]

Haven't read this entire lengthy thread, but I'll throw in my experience. Finished my ratings at age 30, retired 10 years ago as captain on the 747-400. Flight instructed for a year and 600 hours, flew piston twin charter 3 years and 2500 hours, corporate jets for 10 years/4000 hours, then 121. Had the 4-year degree.

[gpiper]

G1 raffee

There is not one answer to your question.
You are 18 so you are very young, you got plenty of years ahead of you and fortunately for you, you got more options available.

When I say options, I mean like enrolling in a 4 year Bachelors Degree, then later on maybe a Masters Degree or even get a job right after your graduate with your undergraduate degree build some experience, put some money on the side then do you pilot training and apply for a first officer job.

In a few years aviation will recover we just don't know when, so a safe bet is to do something else before your pilot training. On the other hand, you could go straight into pilot training after your graduate from HS and hope for the best.

Unfortunately the aviation industry is very dynamic, especially in EU, no one can predict when it will recover or collapse, this makes it very hard for ab initios to secure their first ever job, no one is going to put their head under the knife and give you a clear cut answer, it's a gamble and you have to decide what's best for you. No ones knows your financial state this is also another factor that your should take into account when deciding what to do, and I suggest you talk about it with your parents.

When it comes to a degree do at least something you enjoy, you can even go through a professional qualification like the ACCA for example instead of a degree, become a charter accountant save some money then do the rest. There are infinite possibilities, I got my first flying job when I turned 26, I wasn't that old but also I wasn't 18 or 20, so you are good with age.

I suggest you read my last post along with the replies I received from other more experience colleagues.

[G1raffee]

Actually in Poland, college takes around 5-6 years, and we do not have to pay for it. That is why I am wondering if the aviation will be reborn in such time and would there will be a possibilities to be employed right after receiving license. I've heard a lot about pay to fly system and that really made me confused regarding the decision I got to make quite soon, which will imply the way my life will go for couple of next years at least. You would recommend me to rather get a degree in something else, and make license on my own after couple of years of work, have I understand right?

[Marco10_]

Hi Everyone,
I'm Marco from Italy, 21 years old dreaming to become arline pilot. During last year i've started considering Lufthansa's flight training in europe: one among the few that guarantees an employement after the training. They pay the hole cost of it and the sum will be given back by working for the airline once hired.
I thought that was the best way to get to the cockpit, thus I started learning german about one year ago, reaching quite good results. Of course the Pandemic ruined all my plans and Lufthansa has momentarily cancelled the flight training. I'm keeping learning german hoping that with the coming of the new year they'll recall the training, but that's quite unlikely.
Thus i started considering different ways like getting a PPL and do time building in order to avoid wasting time and money with other flight schools in Europe which offer 0 to ATPL FROZEN without having neither the needed hours to make the license effective nor the job they promise.
I'd like to know your point of view about which is the best way to get the ATPL.
which is the better choice? Getting the PPL in US or in EU?
Is it possibile to get a CPL if one only holds a PPL? In my best scenario I would get the PPL before, the CPL later, building time by working with the CPL and than apply for ATPL once i have the necessary hours.
Thank you all for the attention, i'm looking forward for your advices!

[robby239]

Start with PPL now and when times become better then you continue with CPL. Invest wisely your money.

[Newpilottt]

Hi guys , how are you ?

i know that this is my first post here my name is tarek and i live in uae , you could say that i am crazy but my dream since i was young to become a pilot now in order to achieve that and due to the un-sufficient funds to do so i spent the first 40 years of my life saving for this moment and now this moment come on the covid19 era where no one would possibly think to do this at all ,

no to make the long story short i know that no one in 40`s will never think to do this but i am trying to do my dream if i will work or not 90% not by i am living for the 10% :D

so my question is , to do a ppl in uae it cost around 20 KUSD can i do it less than that in any country near to uae , and also i heard about flight academy in prague but i heard posts here that its not good so i am looking for something really authentic and good to start from the scratch

[Capt. Ali]

Hi! I am an aspiring aviator, and have a burning passion for aviation, which I obtained at the young age of 6. I would do anything to become an airline pilot, but worry about if its a realistic goal to achieve. My question is: how possible is it to become an airline pilot if we disregard the current global situation? Is it realistically a very likely goal to achieve, and how hard is it to become an airline pilot.

Any responses would be greatly appreciated, have a nice day!

[Olympia463]

There is another thread running on this topic I suggest you look at it, you will find some sound advice there. In the meantime, since you live in England, I would suggest finding out if you have the mental and motor skills to fly before spending too much money.. The cheapest way to do this would be to find your nearest gliding club and sign up for a week's course - normally these run in the summer only, but some clubs do them all the year round. You won't go solo in a week but you will get plenty time with your hands on the controls and you can decide if you are up to this sort of thing. Health warning! I did this and liked gliding so much I never went on to power flying.

[nick1368]

Hi
I am a 31 year old iranian male and been living in the uk since 2011 Running my own business which I sold it a few months ago and now I want to fulfil my childhood dream and become a commercial airline pilot.
I know a lot of people from the UK do their training in other European countries because of better weather and cheaper fees but unfortunately that is not an option for me because I don't have a British passport , I only have my iranian passport plus uk residence card which means I can live , work and study in the UK but if I want to travel to other countries I will need a visa which narrows down my options in terms of which school to choose .
I came across FTA Global in shoreham near Brighton and they seem like nice people , they do the whole training in the uk which suits my needs .
they offer modular and integrated training .
I wanted to ask your advice , would be great to know if anyone had experience with FTA Global and whether you would recommend them or not ?
also would like to know if I should choose the modular or integrated course ?
if modular how should I go about it and where to start ?
fortunately I don't have any problem In terms of finance at the moment and have funds ready even for the integrated course but I don't mind saving my hard earned cash if at all possible by choosing modular .

any advice would be highly appreciated .

[Alex Whittingham]

In my opinion FTA are nice people, as you say. Whether you should gve them your money or not is another question. Most would say stay away from expensive integrated training and go modular for the reasons of cost, and because you can control your training path more. A quick look at FTA's website suggests they would charge about £65K for a series of modular courses. In my opinion this is far too much and typical of the 'modular offering' that schools that pre-covid only offered integrated training have put together to try and attract business. You should be able to sort a series of modular courses for considerably less than £50K. You may decide to pay the extra £15K for the convenience of having only one training provider - but that is up to you. In summary, I have never heard any bad reviews of FTA, but they may overcharge you compared to what you could buy elsewhere.

[nick1368]

Hi and thanks for your reply .
I have done a lot of research and thought about it a lot .
I have got to be honest with myself , I am not too old but not that young either so I prefer to do it the quickest way. Also knowing the person I am , I'm scared by choosing modular I might take my time to finish each stage of the training or even get distracted and not finish it at all and just stay in my comfort zone which is a place I can not afford to be in at the moment .

So I said to myself what is the point in trying to save money then risk wasting whatever money and time I spend on the modular course without even finishing it or at least finishing at a reasonable time.

I know the pressure of integrated will bring the best out of me and also the guilt of spending the money will push me to do all my best to hopefully pass all exams first time and with good scores .

And as I mentioned in my previous post I have to choose a school that does the entire training in the UK , FTA ticks all the boxes for me so I have decided to go with FTA's integrated course starting in September.

Yes £90k is a lot of money but luckily I have the cash ready which is more than half of my life saving and fortunately I have a stable source of monthly income as well which help me to completely focus on my training without having to worry about finance while I am studying and training .

[Alex Whittingham]

Good for you, I hope you enjoy it. Shoreham is very nice and FTA have a good reputation

[samuelday]

I am at the beginning of my journey and conducting as much research as I can. I have 0 flying hours.

I am 25, live in the UK, have £15k savings and potentially further finance available from family. I have 2 goals:
1. To become a Commercial Airline Pilot
2. To emigrate to the USA

Considering my goals what course of action seems to be the best (bearing in mind money is tight):
a) Train for FAA License in the US, then apply for work permit/residence.
b) Train for FAA License in Europe, then apply for US work permit/residence.
c) Train for EASA in Europe, get some experience here, then apply for US work permit/residence + License conversion.
d) Train for EASA in US, get some experience in Europe, then apply for US work permit/residence + License conversion.
e) Another route

Thanks in advance, any other advice or experience you feel would be valuable is greatly appreciated.

[eckhard]

Go to the USA, train there for FAA and EASA, marry an American (solves work permit issues) and live your dream.

[KARNAK66]

Unfortunately this one for the crysyal ball, frankly trying to give advice to answer your question is in my estimation impossible.15000 is not gonna go anywhere on the U.S.
please dont forget that COVIT 19 HAS DECMZIMATED the U.S. airline industry.,there pilote taking any jobs just to get by and furlougbed guys literally dont see any light at the end of the tunnel,it is estimated that could be up to 5 years for pilot employment to pick up. Also dont forget allnthe highly guys with years of experience on all types of military aircraft all plesding to get hired.
unfortunately the cuture is bleak.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but those are the stark facts.also dont forget all the guys coming outa flight school and there will literally be thousands and thousands with Ll the qualifications looking for jobsp.
my aologies for being long winded i.m outa Chicago and get all the news.
Best of luck to you,l but pls be carefull.

[wiggy]

1. As I understand it getting a work permit on the basis of being a British citizen wanting to be an airline pilot in the US, pre-Covid was difficult enough...it certainly wasn't something that many people managed to achieve. KARNAK66 has explained why getting a work permit now or in the foreseeable future is going to be mighty mighty tough.. eckhard's solution isn't that far fetched...

2. Even getting experience in mainland Europe (specifically one of the EU states) now we are post Brexit could be difficult unless you have the right to live and work in the EU.

3. In the short term you might want to look at UK/CAA/EASA options in the short term whilst the fallout from Covid manifests itself and we get some idea how/when recruitment anywhere is going to pick up.

[KARNAK66]

PS one last piece of advice, there is not a FLIGHT SCHOOL IN THE WORLD THAT CAN GUARANTEE YOU A JOB WITH THE AiRLINES THAT IS HOT AIR,
its the Almighty Dollar they are after.

[samuelday]

1. As I understand it getting a work permit on the basis of being a British citizen wanting to be an airline pilot in the US, pre-Covid was difficult enough...

Interesting to hear, I was under the impression, from various different things I'd read/watched, that there was a bit of a pilot shortage?

As far as the current (COVID) situation goes, I wouldn't be qualified with enough flying hours for 2 - 5+ years, by which point I was hopeful that demand would be closer to pre-covid levels. I am very competitive and motivated so would be willing to do whatever it takes to land a job, even if it involved working in an unappealing job for some time to gain experience.

[Sailvi767]

wiggy

Your timeline on hiring is way off. United is now interviewing for pilots to start in May. Delta just posted a training entitlement that will leave them 350 pilots short and is expected to start interviews late summer. They have notified all conditional job offer pilots who never started to expect June or July class starts. Frontier is currently hiring and Sprit is expected to start soon.

[ExSp33db1rd]

Ref: KARNAK 66 and Sailvi767 - usual story, ask two people and get five answers ! Best of luck.

My only experience, and not relevant now of course, was - married to an American, and holding two foreign ATPL's and I.R's ( one UK ) with over 20,000 hours airline experience and wanting to fly after retirement, was to be only granted a CPL stamped " Not for hire or reward " . That did of course allow me to fly recreationally, anything else would have taken a lot of time, and money. I would take eckhard's advice, with the addendum - marry a rich American.

Best of luck, best job in the World.

[Banana Joe]

Go to Vegas and marry the first drunk granny. The slope goes down hill from there. Might as well get flight training paid for.

[B2N2]

15000 will get you a Private + living expenses.
Thats it.
You’re looking at $65k-$75k in training cost alone.
$85k-$90k after living expenses and tickets and such.
Do Not and I repeat DO NOT put this burden on your family.
Its your dream and not theirs.
It’s not fair to draw them into something that they have no clue about.
In any case there is no such thing as a work permit for a pilot.
You have two major problems, no work permit and no money.
That’s not magically going to fix itself.

[wiggy]

wiggy

Your timeline on hiring is way off. United is now interviewing for pilots to start in May.

Interesting, that's good news, thanks, though I guess it might not help the OP.

[rudestuff]

Learning to fly in the US is a great idea, and you can get all the training done for less than £30k. The problem is you cannot just emigrate to the US. It is effectively impossible for a UK citizen. You will basically need to get married to a US citizen to stand a chance.

[hotelalphamike2000]

Greetings! I'm an aspiring wannabe pilot from Morocco! I posses a vehement ardour for flight, and It hurts me to think I have a very slim chance of becoming one. I don't have an EU citizenship; and I was looking through the low hour FO job requirements for multiple airlines, they all request the unrestricted right to live and work in the EU... For reference, I still haven't started my training; and I'm willing to get a frozen ATPL when the skies are friendlier. I heard Wizz Air used to employ international low hour pilots, but looking in their website; it seems they changed it, Any ideas or workarounds for my drawback? maybe getting a work visa or something alike? Please let me know, thanks in advance.

[Banana Joe]

No EU citizenship no party.

[hotelalphamike2000]

That's pretty depressing, might as well be a simulator pilot the rest of my life :}. Do all low hour opportunities require an EU citizenship? If so it's pretty much impossible for me to become a pilot :( even American airlines require citizenships... Maybe middle eastern airlines? But they need a high amount of experience no? I'm in an endless maze...

[Skinfaxi]

Why not Moroccan airlines? :)

[Juppie902]

Fellow wannabe, 0.5 hrs on a c152, residing in ME in an unpopular local state of which its legitimacy is doubted upon by many (I doubt it myself)
Standing in the same square as yourself, my idea is to start the PPL in EU zone, and after getting my bearings aligned with what country in the EU is most inviting (currently EE region looks inviting, but it has its downsides) I would work on a CPL and start working on getting a work permit. Once you have a work permit and get an actual job (don't mind being an expensive Air Uber), work your hours, and at the same time starting checking boxes on your "citizenship to do list" for that country.
Most countries, from what little research I did, require you to live in that country for a minimum time, even with a tempo access as a student or Gaestarbeiter, then there's the language barrier, which is almost always required for citizenship (but afaik not for residence permit)

[hotelalphamike2000]

there's just one Moroccan airline sadly, and I was willing to path towards its cadet program although it's somewhat irrational (one of its requirements is to undergo a 2 year preparatory class with sophisticated mathematics and physics that'll serve you no value as a commercial pilot, they're pretty hard to get into as well; also there's huge bias in the selection process and it's mainly not out of merit) That aside, due to the pandemic; they sacked half their fleet and illegally fired half the pilot, and pretty much abandoned the cadet pilots. It's a pretty dire situation. The cadet program doesn't exist anymore and to join the airline you need to be a CAE Oxford Aviation Academy graduate and have a lot of experience hence it's a traditional airline. Therefore Moroccan airlines are sadly not an option in the near future by the looks of things.

[hotelalphamike2000]

That's a nice plan Juppie! It will take time and some hard work but it'll be worth it at time's end. Thanks for the suggestions :))

[B2N2]

Its nice to have a plan but it’s not a very realistic plan.
A lot of large European National carriers hire predominantly from their own flight academies and if not from a selected few schools.
Which means you need to have done your training at a specific school. For instance Lufthansa Flight Academy or the KLM Flight academy for their respective airlines.
You’ll need to be fluent in the language and they will requires citizenship or EU Citizenship.
Which means that’s a 5-7 year delay before you can even apply at the school.
So that’s pretty much impossible.
I would suggest you look at Poland, Greece and Jordan for your flight training.
Then look for jobs in Africa, Middle East and Asia.
There will always be jobs for people willing to sacrifice and move to wherever that job might be.
I have known a handful of people that have flown tourists in Africa before moving on to airline jobs, also know people that have flown in Indonesia and PapuaNG.


https://royalflight.com/

[nick1368]

passed my medicals yesterday , gonna submit my application to start my integrated course with FTA Global in September :)

[Bleusaille]

Hi all,

i hope this is the right thread to post.
I'd appreciate some advice on my personal plan: i'm 38 and want to start flying from scratch. I know this isn't the most ideal of times for that, so i'm tempering my expectations, but i've postponed getting my licences for long enough and i think the post-pandemic change is the good time for me to finally get into it.
My dream end goal, some years down the road, would be a chill bush pilot gig in either US/CA or OZ/NZ. Ideally in something with floats or skis. I flew with Kenn Borek as a passenger in the past and those guys are pretty much living my dream life.

I'm French, got an M.Eng and work in mechanical engineering, my plan is to keep working in the same field and use the money to get my PPL/IR/etc., then the hours, then the CPL on the side until i have credible enough experience to maybe start looking for a pilot job.
So my only 2 questions are:
- Does this sound like a resonable/realistic plan?
- If yes, should i move out of the EU before or after getting my first licences/ratings?

Thanks! :)

[redsnail]

Bleusaille - ahh. Most Bush flying gigs in Australia really don't pay well and is hard work. However, there's opportunities for float flying. Biggest obstable re Oz and NZ is the right to work etc. Relatively easy to convert a licence. Now, I think the Maldives use Float Twin Otters and Canada have a lot of aircraft on floats and skis. I don't know anything about operating in Canada.
I have a friend who's working in the Reunion Islands in the Indian Ocean. He's working for Air Austral and now that looks like a really chilled gig. He loves it and it looks like paradise :D

[futurepilot22]

Anyone know how the market is looking for jobs in the UK or EU now and in the next 2 years? I am about to start training but can't decide what license to go for. I am a UK citizen with only a British passport but would love to eventually settle down in Europe. What sort of airlines would be an option for me?
I heard BA only take experiences FOs so with a UK license I am limited to the likes of easyJet, Jet2, TUI for low cost short haul. With an EASA license there is more options but then there is the visa and language requirements. Anyone know of any UK pilots with EASA licenses flying with EU airlines (Ryanair? Not sure if there are others) from UK bases?

[Contact Approach]

Get both licences, who knows what will be in two years. For now some/most UK operators are still asking for EASA licences. End of 2022 should be interesting.

[Rohit Gopal]

Does anyone know about EMB 120 SIC training or about EMB 120 aircraft as a whole ? Will it be helpful for my my career if i build my hours in a turboprop as a SIC?

[annoyingwannabe]

Hey all, am new to this network and I'm probably in the wrong place but ill go ahead because I'm not sure where else I'd ask.
Anyway, here goes:

For pretty much the 19.5 years I've been alive, flight's been a constant part of life. Dad's a captain for Qantas, mum's dad was too, and so of course I quickly picked up a natural interest in flight, planes, etc. As a result, I've always wanted to do something to with planes after I finished school. Of course when I was younger, what exactly that was, was pretty opaque and vague. I just knew i was really into aviation. In the background I knew that I wanted to be a pilot but I guess thats just been such a constant of life that I never noted it. I really mean that. I have never not wanted to first and foremost fly for a job. Maybe as a teen I discounted it as kinda childish, but looking back now I imagine I only did so because I have wanted to since I was a little kid. That interest has remained as strong as ever but from about 16 onwards I started really looking at the engineering side of things. I'm not exactly sure why... I've been lucky enough to not have had to work particularly hard to do well academically and maybe as soon as you see kids doing well in maths and physics they instantly fit the academic phenotype of an engineer? Again, I'm not entirely sure. Anyway, I went along with that current, assuming that engineering was some sort of predetermined path for me to walk. I looked around at certain unis and found that there was an 'aerospace' option, looked up what it entailed and shrugged and assumed that it would probably be most relevant to my interests (which to be fair was correct). decided to go along with the flow for that.

Today, I'm currently at uni doing an aerospace engineering degree. It's a pretty well-renowned uni (although I have heard that other places with lower entry requirements offer a similar course of similar or even marginally better standards, depending on how one works) but over most of the course I've found myself increasingly dreading even the thought of uni. Sure, covid has made everything even more turgid than usual, but even when imagining being back on campus I can't really see myself enjoying or even just not somewhat dreading it. In all honesty, it's shown me that engineering is a lot less design and practical creation, and a lot more analysis, maintenance, and office work. I'm doing well in terms of marks but I really can't fathom doing an extension of this degree as a job. Maybe I should've seen this coming, but going into it I guess I was a lot more idealistic and excited and all.

Anyway, after thinking about finding a route out of this degree (and indeed whether I wanted out), the only other option that I find myself really and truly interested and invested in, with some potential of financial return is actually piloting (writing doesn't pay the bills :( ). Thanks to dad, grandpa and also in my younger years a really old copy of FS2002 (and grandpa's experience) I have what I'd imagine to be a decent knowledge of the area for a person not involved in aviation as a job (although I know it would be exceedingly basic compared to anyone having completed flight school). I know how to use a 738 FMC, how to set and use an autopilot, I know most of the common instruments and controls in a modern glass cockpit and what they're used for, etc... You get the idea. Disjointed bits of info any armchair aviation fanatic might know, along with basic flight mechanisms and physics and such. It's what you'd expect from a kid who's had 19 years with the same favourite interest, and a huge repository of info in my dad and grandpa. Again, exceedingly minuscule to the knowledge of actual pilots, but its something.

Anyway, I came to ask a couple questions.

How, in Melbourne, would you get the sort of accreditation and licensing that would possibly give one a tilt at applying for an airline like qantas? I'm aware it's a long process but any info on the journey to get there, from scratch (nada flight experience) would be unbelievably helpful. What is flight school like, any recommendations, and is it worth giving up an aerospace eng degree for (given what I've said above)? Has covid killed any chances of me finding a job before I even began? Given increasing automation will there even be any jobs left? How hard/rare is it, once I do have all relevant prerequisite criteria checked, to get job as any sort of pilot at qantas? Of course it's not qantas or nothing, but it would be my first preference (at least to end up at), especially given the familial connection.

Also, if anyone here is an aerospace engineer (long shot), what has your experience of the job and/or education been?

Anyway, I've said my piece. Many thanks to any and all who have any answers, and sorry if this clogs up the forum.
Cheers!

[redsnail]

Firstly, how far into your degree are you? Many Aerospace engineering grads go into car design or anything that has an aerodynamic aspect to it. Australia really isn't at the forefront of aeroplane design unfortunately. One of my colleagues is a former aero engineer, he used to sign off B747s and the like. He prefers flying and has just made captain, but also uses his engineering skills as a reg & tech guru writing procedures for special airports etc. Another string to his bow.

What do QANTAS want? CASA ATPL, Command IR, unrestricted passport, Class 1 medical, appropriate experience. You gain the experience through instructing (if you don't want to leave Melbourne) and moving through the ranks that way, ideally Grade 1 flying instructor with multi engine and IFR teaching credits. If that doesn't appeal, then you pack your car and head "up North" to places that hire low time pilots. (That's what you'll be once you've finished training. You should have at bare minimum, a CPL with Night VFR. For the bigger aircraft, you'll need the ATPL subjects and an instrument rating). The bare minimum will qualify you to fly day VFR charter in probably a C206. Then it's the hour build/gain experience -> move to twins -> turbine etc. However, you'll hit the numbers when the QF hiring cycle begins.

Right now, QF and most airlines in Australia won't need new pilots for a while. They might in about 5 years time - just a guess.

[annoyingwannabe]

heya redsnail, cheers for the response.
Yeah, I was very much aware of the relative lack of jobs in Aus for aviation-adjacent aero eng, and honestly wouldn't have had an awful problem with leaving. Of course, this was before covid... Currently looking at second year. I think the past year or so has probably wizened me up to the fact that I'm not super likely to get a job designing anything, and I've realised that instead I really wouldn't mind doing the actual flying itself though. Although I very much appreciate in the coming years its all about a diverse skillset and all those buzzwords. They're buzzwords for a reason!

As for qantas: I appreciate they (like most airlines) require a fair amount of experience. I know for this kind of thing dad did a lot of flying around Exmouth as a low-time pilot, and i think he quite enjoyed that. I wouldn't mind either staying in Melbourne or leaving honestly, I'm very open to chasing it. If its not a hassle to ask, what would be the pros and cons of each decision?

5 years until I have a chance doesn't sound awful to be honest, thats definitely something I can stomach. I understand that currently its about the recency of a lot of pilots after covid, with operations opening back up, and maybe not so much on people fresh into the system.
Anyway, thanks! Already things have been cleared up a lot.

[redsnail]

Ha! There's a good chance I may have crossed paths with your dad then. I wasn't in Exmouth, I was in Kununurra and Broome in the early 90's.

Staying in Melbourne, Pros. It's with your friends and family and all that a big city has to offer. Cons. You can get "stuck" with instructing and whilst it's not a bad career path, there's fierce competition for what little twin flying there is. Also, you have to find your own students etc and the Instructor rating is not cheap. You will not earn a lot of money. (Come to think of it, you won't until you make it to the bigger regionals/mainline)

Heading up north. Check out the Dununda forum for more info. Cons. You're away from home and you need to be able to cope with that. If you're used to a pretty comfortable life, then sharing a house with a bunch of blokes may be a bit of an eye opener. Competition is very fierce for any job. You'll need to do any work to survive. Pros. If you're persistent, flexible and not an idiot, someone should take you on. You'll be doing charters/scenics etc in some of the most remote and beautiful places in the world. Twin progression should happen quicker. You'll make contacts and friends who'll really help for the next steps in getting turbine jobs etc.

About that 5 years. It's a guess. No one really knows. And if for some reason you miss out on QF, what then? It's great to have a goal but you do need to be pragmatic and flexible.

[WhatShouldIDo]

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if people could give their opinions/advice on the situation I am in regarding when to start training.

I am currently in the middle of the second year of a three-year undergraduate course (non-aviation) which I started in 2020 instead of starting my integrated ATPL at a large ATO in the UK due to COVID-19 and wanting to see what the future held for the industry before committing.

I personally feel that since then the global outlook for aviation has improved significantly, especially the last few weeks with a number of countries that have had very strict border controls deciding to loosen them significantly, I also have seen that the recovery is following the eurocontrol most optimistic scenario with 2019 levels being reached in 2023 or 2024 and finally I know that all of the British Airways new hire cabin crew hold pool have been offered start dates in spring 2022 which again is a very good sign.

I have been thinking a lot about all of this and obviously I would rather be at the front end of a hiring wave than the back so was considering deferring my final year of university to start training, then finish my degree at a later date when I am done, this way I can take advantage of any potential hiring boom and still have completed university, is this a good idea or am I being overly optimistic?

Looking forward to reading your responses.

[parkfell]

I shall keep this short & sweet. Complete your degree, and then proceed Modular. Get the timings right, you can achieve CPL/IR nearly as quick as Integrated, who have been known to have delays for various reasons.
There are still large numbers of pilots (note 1) of known quality to return. If there are shortages due to airline rapid expansion, they are far easier to return to the line.

Note 1: those laid off/made redundant might have taken ‘early retirement’; others have found more secure employment (train driver?) & decide not to risk it again due financial/family commitments.

[flyhigh787]

Fast forward 2 years since COVID started. Is it still worth to drop everything and spend over 100k to pursue the dream? With no job guarantee and only optimism and motivation.

[rudestuff]

Fast forward 2 years since COVID started. Is it still worth to drop everything and spend over 100k to pursue the dream? With no job guarantee and only optimism and motivation.
It's never been worth it for £100k. Because a fATPL shouldn't cost more than £40k

[ACWikman]

Removed

[Europeancitizen]

Hi everyone,

I am new in this great forum, and would like to know your opinions about my situation and intentions.
I am 35 years old, PPL holder, and wondering if I should study ATPL and go for the remaining licenses to become a professional commercial pilot. My concerns come mainly from my age, current jobmarket situation , real chances of getting a job when I finish (I have no big contacts at the airlines), and whether that future life would suit me (I know it has loads of sacrifices, but I honestly think trade-off is still positive when considering all the perks and specially, my motivation and vocation).
I am currently working in a non-aviation related company, with a medium level and salary position. It is quite a stable job but I feel burnout, bored, and have always dreamt of being a pilot. I honestly feel the moment is now or never, mainly due to age reasons and because I need to decide in order to focus my professional/personal life.
Would love to know your advise, comments or any other tip you can have.
Thanks a lot in advance.

Best,
Europeancitizen

[redsnail]

Hi Europeancitizen,
Here's the thing. Can you afford to throw away €60K+ on your dream and living on €25K for a few years after the training? If you can, great. :)
If you cannot, then think long and hard about spending that kind of money.
I see you have a Class 2, make sure you can get a class 1 with no issues otherwise, there's no point in continuing.
The cheapest way is modular, the best way is to get onto a tagged scheme whereby an airline will pick you up after training - assuming no issues. BTW - you'll still pay for every thing, just a lot more outlay from you.
Just curious, what "perks" are there?

[rudestuff]

35 too old? 🤣🤣
So a 28 year career is not enough?
Have you never heard the expression 'buy the dip' - when exactly do you think the best time to get into the industry is? Hint: it's not when they're hiring like crazy.