China Hiring U.S. pilots...

[CargoFlyer11]

Chinese Airlines Seek American Pilots - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-15749633/chinese-airlines-seek-american-pilots-28432617.html)

[ReverseFlight]

Here's a more detailed article from Bloomberg:
China Lures U.S. Pilots Waiting for Captain (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-27/china-lures-u-s-pilots-tired-of-14-year-wait-for-captain-s-seat.html)
Kent John Krizman has spent 13 years as a co-pilot at American Airlines. For a chance to move across the cockpit, he’s ready to take a job in China (http://topics.bloomberg.com/china/).
“I should be flying as a captain,” said the 52-year-old San Francisco resident, who has 20,000 hours’ experience in jet planes. Promotion won’t happen for at least five more years at American, while in China it could occur straightaway, he said. He and his wife “are all set to go,” he said.
Krizman was one of about 550 pilots who attended a China job fair in Miami last week, as first officers find fewer chances for promotion in the U.S. because of slower airline growth and captains retiring later. There are jobs available in China, where a surging economy and a fleet expected to grow 11 percent a year through 2015, according to government forecasts, is creating a need for experienced crewmembers.
“Everyone is facing a pilot shortage,” said Shen Wei, head of pilot recruitment at Shanghai-based budget carrier Spring Airlines (TPRINZ) (http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/TPRINZ:CH). “Foreign pilots are the quickest option.”
To help lure overseas crew members, Spring Air pays foreign pilots 30 percent more than domestic staff, Shen said, without elaboration.
Air China Ltd. (753) (http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/753:HK), the nation’s largest international carrier, was offering $198,000 a year net plus bonuses for Airbus SAS A330 pilots, according to an advertisement (http://www.wasinc.aero/Jobs/ViewJob.aspx?id=640) on the website of Wasinc International, the recruitment company that helped run the job fair. During the two-day Miami event, which featured about a dozen Chinese airlines, about 70 pilots got provisional job offers, said Scott Snow, a spokesman.
Doubled Pay
Roger Grant, an American Airlines co-pilot, said in Miami that he may be able to about double his salary by moving to China and becoming a captain. He also said a move may offer better long-term prospects.
“I’ve been worried about the direction that the pilot career has been taking,” said the 45-year-old, who lives in Boynton Beach (http://topics.bloomberg.com/boynton-beach/), Florida (http://topics.bloomberg.com/florida/), with his wife and 7-year-old daughter. Workers across the industry are “getting punished” for mistakes made by major airlines, he said.
It’s easier for first officers to become captains in China than the U.S. because of demand rather than lower requirements, said Li Yanhua, an associate professor at Tianjin-based Civil Aviation University of China. Air-traffic controllers in China are already required to speak English, in line with global standards.
China Demand
Nationwide, the number of pilots in China needs to rise to 40,000 from 24,000 in the five years ending 2015, according to a statement (http://www.caac.gov.cn/I1/I2/201105/P020110509627451617443.pdf) posted on the website of the Civil Aviation Administration of China. There are about 1,700 foreign pilots working in the country, according to Spring Air’s Shen. Calls to the CAAC went unanswered.
China Southern Airlines Co. (1055) (http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/1055:HK), the nation’s biggest carrier, is looking to hire 725 pilots this year, including 100 from overseas, it said by e-mail. It employs 4,400 pilots. Air China intends to recruit 600 pilots this year, including as many foreigners as possible, it said. The Beijing-based airline has 46 foreign pilots, or less than 2 percent of its roster.
In the U.S., first officers are finding it more difficult to get promotions as an increase in the mandatory retirement age (http://topics.bloomberg.com/retirement-age/) for captains to 65 from 60 creates a logjam at the top of chain, said Kit Darby, who runs a pilot-hiring and compensation consulting firm in Peachtree City, Georgia (http://topics.bloomberg.com/georgia/).
Pilots who have been promoted at major U.S. carriers are unlikely to leave as even junior captains earn $12,700 per month on average, plus benefits such as pensions that can boost the package by 40 percent, he said. Moving to China may appeal to the 4 percent of the country’s 90,000 pilots that are on furloughs, he said.
“To the furloughed or unemployed pilot an overseas job looks pretty good,” he said.
Regional Carriers
Pilots at U.S. regional carriers, which fly smaller planes on short-haul routes, have also been caught by the retirement slowdown as they lose opportunities to move to better-paid positions flying larger models at a major airline.
Tony Giraldo, 51, for instance, said he has spent 15 years flying “numerous hours on the same equipment with no chance for an upgrade” at American Eagle, which ferries passengers from smaller cities to American Airlines (http://topics.bloomberg.com/american-airlines/)’ airport hubs. He was considering a move to China as it offers “bigger aircraft and new possibilities,” he said.
Some American Airlines pilots recently were promoted to captain, 14 years after being hired, the carrier said. The wait for advancement was five years in the growth period of the 1980s and as long as two decades a few years ago, said Sam Mayer, spokesman for the Allied Pilots Association union.
AMR Bankruptcy
The November bankruptcy filing by AMR Corp., the Fort Worth, Texas-based parent of American Airlines and American Eagle, also spurred Giraldo to consider opportunities elsewhere, he said. Krizman, the American co-pilot, similarly said that concerns about Chapter 11 had “refocused my efforts” to look overseas.
American, which has a hub (http://www.aa.com/i18n/aboutUs/whereWeFly/maps/world.jsp) in Miami, wants to cut 400 pilot jobs as part of bankruptcy restructuring, as well as terminating pensions and outsourcing more flying to other carriers.
The carrier’s pilots “will remain highly compensated” even after the proposed changes, said Bruce Hicks, a company spokesman. American crew members “have long been among the best compensated in the industry,” he said.
China is stepping up pilot training to help meet demand. The Civil Aviation Flight University of China (http://218.6.160.247/), the country’s biggest training provider, plans to accept 2,400 cadets this year, 33 percent more than last year, it said in e-mailed reply to questions.
Using domestic pilots is simpler for Chinese airlines as there are some restrictions on foreigners flying domestic services, largely because the military controls much of the airspace, said Spring Air’s Shen.
“The boom in foreign pilots coming to China may only last a few years,” he said. “When we have more choice in the future, I will prefer our own pilots.”

[FLEXPWR]

Am I missing something? Unless new requirements I have not seen yet, the minimums to apply in China is to have above 500h on type as a captain.

How will these high experienced first officers from US (or elsewhere) get these hours before joining a Chinese carrier?

[Plastic fantastic]

Babes in the woods.
FO time means nothing outside your country (or airline).
These guys will take it all in good faith,sign up and find that the story is completely different once there.
They may call you 'Captain' but, you will be there to baby sit a young Chinese with just very few hours, and make radio calls.
They may offer promotion according to "their rules", which will be a pool system that will always put any newly qualifying local pilot ahead of you.End result, further down the list you go and no command.
Once they have their numbers, bye bye.
Don't be fooled.It has happened before and it will happen again.
You have a contract you say? Just try and enforce it.
As for bringing your family there, unless you are an ABC, forget about it!

[A-3TWENTY]

“The boom in foreign pilots coming to China may only last a few years,” he said. “When we have more choice in the future, I will prefer our own pilots.”

They admit it.And as the experience required in China to upgrade FOs is around 3000 some conpanies upgrade them with 2500 , it will not take too much until they start getting rid of expats.

They are looking people all over the world, not only US. The problem is to convince them.

[Tommy Tilt]

During the two-day Miami event, which featured about a dozen Chinese airlines, about 70 pilots got provisional job offers
Out of the 70 probably 30 will eventually buy their ticket to China, but only about 12 will pass the stringent CAAC initial medical. After they return to the US to climb the official paperwork mountain, the reality of relocating to a communist country where the employee has no rights whatsoever will, hopefully, sink in before uprooting the family or having a family life via Skype. Perhaps 4 or 5 brave souls will ultimately return.

Hardly worth the Chinese coming to MIA really – and what a cheek, showing up with only kool-aid and no cake!

[Slasher]

...or having a family life via Skype.

Skype's allowed in China now? That's a turn for the books.

Facefcuk and Twatter are still permitted by the glorious CPC
in selected cities and provinces but how long that will last is
anybody's guess.

[grounded27]

China Recruits Experienced Pilots From U.S. - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/MadeInAmerica/china-recruits-experienced-pilots-us/story?id=15783879#.T1OH8W-yz2Y.facebook)


The demand..

[break_break]

Oh no.. Now you just get half the dim witted kids excited and will all be glad to "invest" in this downward spiraling profession. Think about it, they are gonna earn 18 big Gs in no time with abundant jobs await.

[B737NG]

Attracting and luring is one side of the coin. Treating the people later respectfully is the other.....

Some Asian Employers treat there employee still like in the old days where slavery was present. Changes of the contractual terms are normal without notice, just practiced as it suits the Asian Administrator. Think twice before you make a move and surf thru Threads here to see, only the-tip of the iceberg- here. Reality could be affecting your life much more drastic.

[CargoFlyer11]

http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/478484-china-hiring-u-s-pilots.html

[virgin camel]

They have been doing this for many years now. Some airlines in China need the applicable type rating and 300 hours P1 experience on this type to view your application. Experience means different things to different people. Be prepared to be treated like the lackey you will be……money isn't everything but in China thats all thats being offered.

[reach for the sky]

I must confess that I find it very strange the amount of negativity posted about this thread. Yes, getting to China as an operating captain is difficult. The medical is really tough. The simulator evaluation is insane and paperwork trail is endless. But once there, you have a really well paid, nice job. From what I have seen, the Chinese are light years away from providing there own pilots, so job security for at least the next ten years is not an issue either. Anyone who is considering China, throw your hat in the ring and give it a go. I recommend it to anyone who has a sense of adventure and a flexible mindset.

[Luke SkyToddler]

So which Chinese airlines are upgrading foreign FO's then? First I've heard of it anywhere

[kungfu panda]

reach for the sky

The reality with China is that because of the amount of Jeopardy which exists during the initial period and even for every annual medical (you only have to be unlucky and get the wrong doctor), China can not be recommended to Pilots who already have secure and half reasonable jobs in there own country, especially guys with families. A number of people who arrived from a national carrier at my company have recently been released, having failed checks.

Just to add that I have no knowledge of the Chinese taking First Officers, it seems to me that there is no shortage of First Officers. They want experienced Captains.

[twentyyearstoolate]

Yes they want experienced Captains....... Preferably under the age of 25 to survive the medical for a 2 year contract!

Dear China,

Please do a study/investigation to the number of in flight deaths/medical emergencies of Pilots during flight in the rest of the world. You'll be surprised how safe we all are.

It is one thing to have high standards, but you fail to realise the rest of the world does have high standards but the Doctors can realise when certain Medical Conditions have no effect on safety!

I think everyone in China is paranoid about anything in the future happening, and the CAAC charging/imprisoning the Doc who passed him/her. Just IMO.

[StandbyFlowControl]

My current contract's coming to an end and I was thinking of Spring Airlines (China's Ryanair) but :

Spring Air’s Shen:
“The boom in foreign pilots coming to China may only last a few years,” he said. “When we have more choice in the future, I will prefer our own pilots.”

At least the guy's honest ;) I'm looking for a more stable job and with this statement , and the lottery medicals , and $12000 punishment fines there, it's all far too uncertain for me.

EK DEC application is in.......

[KAL__Aviator]

I'm presently under training here in China. Word of advice, come if you need to put food on table, nothing to lose. Or if you're like me, going for the last few years of making maximum pay in contract pilots' world.
In any case, 90% of applicants will fail eventually cos the chinese really don't care, read more about them to understand their culture and how they think.
All the best.

[Soab]

Ive seen some crewing companies spout how they offer the security of a 5 year contract. Particularly if they offer you a Captain position. (eg A320 to A330 or B767 to B747).
What they dont tell you is you will never be PIC, or be able to log PIC time, you are a cruise Captain. So it will not help you with the next PIC job application.

Are they trying to lock you in on lower pay (assuming over the next five years they have to pay more to get pilots).

What concerns me is your contract is actually only a 6 month contract, as their is a very high likelihood you may fail your 6 monthly medical, and thus lose your job.
Read on this forum how a pilot was made to do untold tests and was then required to have an procedure where they insert a tube through an artery and into your heart, he refused and lost his job.

Im also concerned about their punitive culture. A foreign Captain has just been fined $12000USD for an altitude infringement. (certainly not impossible when talking to Chinese controllers and a Chinese FO).

Then theres the incident of a korean Capt being sacked for the Mayday ATC mess, not sure if they were all speaking chinese over the radio.
But that airline had its expansion plans stopped and had to downsize by 10%. Not sure if anyone way laid off as a result. But imagine if a plane crashed within your airline, would they be forced to downsize 10%, 30% as a punishment.

Apparently all pilots get extra sims whenever the caac demand, due to an incident in another airline.

It would be a brave move to leave a good job in the West to go to China (unless you can get leave without pay and go back when you wanted).

I know a pilot who is now unemployed as he refused to sign their new contract that would seriously affect his old commuting agreement. So after years working for them for 2 contracts, they try to get you to sign a contract with lower conditions. WTF!

Others lost out on the big bonus at contracts end. Apparently expats have wised up to this. Go for a higher monthly pay with a small bonus paid yearly. You may fail your medical just before your contract ends and your $30,000 payouts due.

There is nothing secure about a Chinese contract.

Best not get a mortgage

[Soab]

The article states 90,000 US pilots are on furlough.

That is huge, is that figure correct.

My contract wasnt renewed because of the GFC. Who would have thought greedy bankers, ceos would cause my contract not to be renewed.

Then they increase the retirement age to 70. Bl**dy idiots. How does that help the 90,000 US pilots on furlough?

Where are all these 90,00 pilots now?

[warbirdfinder]

I recieved this from a retired pilot:

Flying in China $575K in 3 years tax free.(perspective)
Some interesting observations from an "American" who flies for a Chinese airline... name removed....

I'm the 1%! ....and I pay less taxes than Mitt!

Yes its true. You can make oodles of money here in China. I as a E190 driver make more than any widebody captain in the US, and I have over 18 weeks paid holiday a year plus normal days off.

But there is a natural economy to this and its not the gleaming diamond you think. Your vision is of your life now, today, as it is, with all its comforts, cleanliness, proximity to friends and family, in a system you are familiar with, where everyone speaks your language and understands your culture.

This is my second contract overseas and I can tell you why we make this kind of money.

We have less job security and no seniority list. If there is any hiccup we are the first to go. We are the outsiders and the locals always remain. We have no pension. This is not a permanent gig. There are some longer term contracts but the company has no interest in keeping us on payroll any longer than necessary.

Kids pee on the street 10 meters from a bathroom, people spit everywhere, I see have seen people laying a nice brown heap on the sidewalk. I live in a country that not only has cornered the market on plastic toy exports but all the super infectious germs resistant to antibiotics. A place that routinely is polluted so heavily that you can stare directly at the sun without squinting.....if you can see the sun. A place where purple industrial waste lays meters from farmland. An economy so self driven that it mirrors Dante's Inferno's passage where no one can escape because everyone pulls each other down to get ahead.

A place where there are three kinds of alcohol. Fake, not so fake, and almost real. An underground that reuses cooking oil into infinity and buys bottles from authentic international places to re-bottle them with fake hooch. Unless you pay 3x what it costs normally you are not really drinking alcohol and even then that is not a guarantee.

The chemicals in everything you eat is life shortening. A country where just the simple task of getting to Facebook requires special "tunnel" program to circumvent the great firewall of China. Initially for 2-3 months you will heave all the colours of the rainbow until you are used to the bacterias of the East. Cleanliness is next to Godliness and most Chinese don't believe in God so they don't believe in Ajax either. One rag to rule them all cleans your bed, your floor, your toilet, your dishes.....in that order. The best overnight hotels are in comparison with the worst ones you have ever stayed back home.

There is bare minimum communication. Almost no one outside of Shanghai and Beijing speaks even broken English. Hong Kong does not count because lets face it....that's not Mainland China. Even fewer people read English. None of my ground crew speak English. You can find "women" but there is a target on your back for you passport and your money. The first questions asked are...Are you single, do you have children, do you want children, where do you work, how big is your house, how much money do you make. Really, after what is your name these questions are the immediate follow up.

]I have a 3 man cockpit in an E190 to keep me going through to 16 hours or more every day. I get holidays but even when I am off half the month I am burning 80 or more flying hours in two weeks. There is no 30/7 rule here only 100/month. Routinely the pilots time out at 1000 hours per year. The delays in summer mimic EWR. The ATC outside of Shanghai and Beijing barely speaks English and on runway 27 it is normal to be flying a 090 heading, off any charted approach on vectors, and have the controller say..."cleared for the approach". You are ATC. My ICAO English examiner could not understand what I was saying.

Your F/Os while smart are 200 hour wonder pilots. And when I mean 200 hours I mean they just checked out and this is their first jet airplane. The last thing they flew was a C421 for 40 hours. In my initial sim the F/O who didn't speak English did not give a call about my speed during takeoff roll. The sim tech put in a windshear and airspeed had stagnated and I had already transitioned to outside reference before V1 above 100 knts. The F/O said nothing. As we overrun I shoot a glare to the F/O and he says something in Chinese. The translator says "He says he is sorry he never saw this situation before"

Your FOM makes no sense-----Its all Chinglish.....

"The regulation of using checklist is the valuable experience of what had
happened before with high cost and scientific treasures summarized from
the bloody accident. The operation of checklist is used to standard
behavior, strict operation, detailed procedure, and it is the valuable
treasures of preventing mistakes and important tool of assuring flight safety."

The checkrides are old school. Multiple failures. I've had my RAT out single engine with a multiple hydraulic, screen failure, anti ice failure, decompression, Electrical malfunction all at once with an F/O who does not speak English. I've flown V1 cuts IN THE AIRPLANE to 500 ft circling patterns with a hood. Engine failures at 400ft and securing the engine by 1000ft is challenging and can be done but not when you need a translator to get it done. You make your own procedure and get it done by 1000FT. People add weight to takeoff performance when clearly the English says SUB or Subtract. But they don't know English.

Line Check Airmen can be old school military to completely not knowing a damn thing about the SOP. There are good pilots but few who can fly or know SOP.

The medicals are extremely difficult overseas. Everything from balance tests, blood tests of more than 45 criteria from white blood cell counts to blood sugar levels. Vision, periphery, depth, puffer, grip tests, EKG, EEG, brain scans, ultrasounds, reflex, ears nose throat tests, and many other probes. Half the people don't make it past the medical.

Many people leave after the first few days unable to cope with the culture shock. This is not Hong Kong or Shanghai. This is Mainland China where people smoke in hospitals and there is no such thing as pedestrian right of way....even on the sidewalks.

Most importantly you should never bring your kids here unless you appreciate them eating arsenic. The pollution is terrible. It is beyond terrible. Its hazardous. The US Embassy advises no to go out side for any period of time many days of the year in my city. Where the distributors know that imported food is in demand they counterfeit everything and even that imported Sunkist label is a knock off. Marriages crumble with the distance, children are seen twice a year and those who do commute back and forth age so quickly you encourage them to double up on life insurance.

Expats drink a lot to deaden the loneliness and pain. I've seen people who didn't drink put away a 5th a week.


There is no Meetup group or speed dating. This is make your own a la carte.

This is just the tip of the iceberg and I have mentioned almost nothing about the real cultural differences.

It could work out for you. You could marry that stripper and everything will work out. But the odds are you are looking at a disaster on your hands and that my friends is why I make more than the most senior Delta captain who comes home to his family every week. China does not have the experienced captains that take 10 years of training to mold out here. And in all Asian countries its about 10 years. With foriegners reluctant to move here because of all these and other difficulties I am a drop of water in a desert.

[pilotss2001]

Ha,

Snickers at the above post...

I'm not retired yet. haha. You must somehow know somebody I know.

I'd say we are one off from Keven Bacon.

[air_up_there]

Would a hip replacement disqualify you to fly in China? Could you pass the medical if you have one?

Thanks.

[kungfu panda]

air up there:- It's a difficult question to answer. You seem to have many different branches of the CAAC throughout China and what will pass in one place will fail in another. So you may be able to get through the medical having had a hip replacement. Having said that the Chinese medical is extremely scrupulous twice a year and never gets any easier. I would not recommend leaving a quality secure Job in Europe or the U.S. to go to China.

[pilotss2001]

I doubt anyone could tell you positively on this board if a hip replacement will disqualify you.

You need to contact the airline you are looking at and ask them. All Chinese airlines have a pseudo doctor on staff and he will know the answer to this question.

It also depends on what your value is. If you are an A380 captain with time on type and China Southern wants to hire you then they will push aside as much as they can to get you on board. If you are a CRJ captain, like the thousands out there available , then expect little help.

[Ivor Biggun]

Soab..

Retirement age may have been increased to 70 but how many pilots (in our new low cost world) are going to continue working past 65 and not have health issues or simply decide that retiring while they still do a round of golf is more fun?

Sure lots of pilots having lost ground in the GFC or divorce will have no choice;
the retirement age may even be put back to 65.. all in the future.

[Black eyed pea]

Shen Wei is the biggest liar the world has, this guy does not tell you that most of your pay is bonus based and the cances of you getting them are very remote.
Spring is the only airline where you will spend up to 6 months doing jump seat for up to 16 to 18 hours so that they can use you as a third pilot and extend the duty day.

They are not the least interested in your well being and the hotels like in Shenyang you would not put your dog in it. actually crew often ask for up to 20 towels just to cover the floor.

The company said they would improve this by changing sheets more than once a week...

Many have been there but onlt a few are actually happy.

This company seriously sucks

[Black eyed pea]

Any weird metal stuff in your body disqualifies you in China now

[airtraveller]

Is it true that retirement age varies in different airlines from 60 to 65? What are the criteria for extension then? Which airlines will extend to 65? Any infos on this will be greatly appreciated.

[fdr]

thinking about China? pots of gold? well, before you place all on the roulette wheel that is China, do a due diligence with some folk that have been or are there. All that glitters, ain't gold...

When you sign your contract, that is just a formality for the other side, the contract is a paper diode, expect the other side to honor it at your peril.

[MadDog Driver]

Soab

No, the article states that out of the country's 90.000 pilots, 4% of them are on furlough.

[fdr]

When you join a Chinese company, for the government companies your license is contractually linked to that company. If you leave that company, any other company you join needs to have your license released to them. Additionally, when you leave a Chinese company, the no-incident record can be refused to be given, even though Chinese companies demand it of any other party. The mix of communism and capitalism has some lumps in it.

Beware before you sign with any chinese company. Of course there are private companies trying the same act, which is pretty interesting as a legal stance, a 3rd party withholding your right to work and intellectual property and property without a contractual right to do so. Again, look before you leap over the Great Wall...

[KAG]

We are hiring a lot of expat pilots in my company, but most of them fail either the CAAC medical, either the CAAC simulator check.
After that a few, maybe 10 percent, fail the line training to be captain, for the other ones, well, it seems like a good job.
Good money, during some period of the year (difficult weather) the F/O cannot be PF, the ground staff ant maintenance are helpful...
Well, we are still foreigner, obviously, it has to be kept in mind.
Think one seconde what you would feel if US hired south american pilots to be captain, or if Europe hired africans pilots in their airline (without changing their nationality, without learning the language, speaking their own local language), you would feel bad right?
It has to be taken into account.
They give you a job, a nice salary, a peaceful life (you do your flight, come back home and do whatever you want), in exchange you have to pass the simulator check, fly respecting the regulation and SOPs, nothing more, nothing less, what is fair enough right?
After all, nobody is forced to come here...

[Business Class]

Here is an update:
Chinese Airlines Lure Pilots With Double the Pay of U.S. Captains - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323455104579012194041354578.html)

[donpizmeov2]

Chinese Airlines double the pay but how about the working condition ...

[fatbus]

double the work and half the time off.

[WYOMINGPILOT]

Actually much more time off than the ME carriers. Many commuting contracts are 16 days off every 6 weeks and while working it's 4 days on and 2 days off hence about 216 days off per year. The schedules are long days but quite efficient to get 900 hours per year. Long delays and flow control are quite common and 14 hour days happen many times but you do get more time off to stay with your family if you work in China. Read post 21 above for more daily details.

[captjns]

Access the airlinepilotcentral.com web site. You can add up the pilots on furlough by company. Far less than the 90,000 so stated in the US.

[Masagemarad]

I was over there interviewed with China Air they are so super cheap they promise smoke and mirrors lots of money and days off I got over there and all they give you is stby tickets sat in one airport for over 14 hours trying to get out they just do not have the infrastructure yet Boeing and AirBus are making planes left and right for them and they do not have the facilities to handle the network.
And the medical is a crapshoot they will always find a fault of some kind color blindness etc to fail you. I left to much drama.:)

[BayBong]

Your post is more than a year and a half old but always true. I read it again and found the retired Captain very very courageous. Not just because he has endured all this, but he did it with a lucid constantly critical eye. Which makes it worse !

Here is a very valuable website Middle Kingdom Life (http://middlekingdomlife.com/guide/) written by an expat who speaks Chinese and was teaching in China for more than 7 years. Wish his insight helps any expat preparation and adjustment in China a bit less traumatic.

[tcas69]

Maybe I just got lucky! My first chinese job was a 50% parttime contract with MU starting in CDG and ending in CDg after twelve days! The rest of the month belonged to me (2008/2009). Was too good to be true . Then had the chance to change to HU, frustrating five months until first flight , then full time ex PEK with ten free days in Europe. After 1 1/2 years a 70 percent parttime job with guaranteed 14 days off in Europe (excluding travel/DHC days). Was ok and would have gotten better. The two remaining chaps of my original 11 man group are on 70% respectively 50% parttime contract, but for me it was enough. Not that I was treated unfairly but the commuting was taking its toll and the grey areas that you as Cpt were held responsible got too big for my liking. Money was 30% above my old salary and the scheduling was horror pure but only because we wanted our free days en bloc.

[Teldorserious]

As far as I can tell it's the same old, poaching out of the commuters for guys with the requisite time in model and not hiring guys with serious flight time.

An Airbus type is cheaper then King Air reccurent, yet, they need 320 PIC to sit in the cockpit.

Not sure who's insuring them over there, but there are a ton of high time pilots with zip airline time that would be willing to go over there and kick some butt. At some point this airline mentality of circling the wagons toward the guys that 'got in' will have to morph to just hiring qualified guys.

[captseth]

There will most certainly be an easing of type or time in type requirements, but there is no possibility of putting a citation driver into the left seat of a transport jet. It is a different animal, and 1,000 PIC in a heavy jet (> 50,000 tons) would seem a reasonable minimum to offer a CCQ into a different type.

[Teldorserious]

Cap -

Sorry, 3000k in airlines doesn't trump 11000 PIC in corporate.

An Airbus type is one week, 300 in type is 3 months.

So do you really think 3 months in type trumps 20 years full time in aviation?

If so you have drunk the kool aid and again this is just about filling seats with marshmellows that are too scared or too unqualified to work anywhere else. This is about control and keeping the natives docile.

Sooner or later, a few more crashes, more dead bodies, the airlines will be forced to hire experience. Right now no one cares, to let the stupidity continue.

[WYOMINGPILOT]

Tel
"So do you really think 3 months in type trumps 20 years full time in aviation"?

First thing you have to realize in the contract aviation world is the current minimums are REQUIRED. It may not seem right or fair to you but to the requesting companies this is what they want. Nothing less. 500 hours in type will always trump 20 years in a corporate jet, unless of course you are applying for that particular type corporate jet. It is just the way it is. If you want to be marketable then you have to fulfill the prerequisites.