SAS/Norwegian 737NG NADP

[MrGren]

Hi. This thread might better be put in the tech log, so I apologize in advance if that is the case. But as I am mostly interested in hearing scandinavian drivers answers I thought it would be best to ask it here.

I've tried to get info on what type of NADP (1 or 2) scandinavian airports uses, but have come up short. Is there any way of finding this information?

Or is it like on some airports/countries where its up to the company? I.e specifying an acceleration height, if so what are these procedures?

Hopefully my question makes sense, and thanks in advance :)

[Diper]

Standard er 1000` start clean up, 1500`climb thrust. Visse flyplasser nedover i Europa har clean up 3000`. Hvilken som er NAPD I eller II husker jeg ikke.

[frogone]

Look for the respective country's AIP and in the 'AD' section you should find the information you are looking for in each airport section. That said however some times NADP 1 or 2 insn't specified. So we use NADP 2 in my airline.

AIP can be found online.

[Griffin]

OSL for example has climb thrust at 1000 and clean up att 3000=NADP1

[MrGren]

Thanks. I have actually been checking AIP/AD documents for different airports but I have rarely seen any mentioning of climb thrust/acceleration heights, or NADP1/2. For example, when looking at ESSA AD 2.21 Noise Abatement Procedures, it only mentions preferential runway systems and times when AC over a certain weight are allowed to take off/land. There is more of course but nothing pertaining to NADP's.

When searching for OSL, "AD 2 ENGM 4" always came up but I couldn't find it, I did find though that NADP2 is in use for RWY 01L, 19L/R but NADP1 is used for RWY 01R. As this contradicts your information Griffin I'm guessing that the source of my info there (google lol) was outdated/faulty.

But just to confirm, if an AD doesn't have a published NADP you go by company rules?

[sellect]

You can always see it in the jeppesen airport briefs. Though they do not call it NADP 1 and 2, but they do specify flap retraction altitude etc.

[MrGren]

Select: Thanks, how would I go about getting one of those?
Any free alternatives btw?

[dusk2dawn]

Register - basic version is free: EAD Basic - Login Page (http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/publicuser/public/pu/logout.do)

[MrGren]

Dusk2Dawn, Thanks but actually this is the source I've been using :) Problem is, I can't find the NADP on that site, unless it is very obvious like with EHAM: AIP AD 2.21 where everything is written.

With for example Gardemoen, which I know has a NADP, I can't for the life of me find it. In the NAP section in the AD 2 ENGM 1 (AIP-AD-ENGM) there is reference to the documents AD 2 ENGM 4, which is the SID charts.
Looking at the SID charts I find no reference to NADP's or acceleration/climb thrust heights.

What am I missing?

[Goldenbawls]

The ERM/SAS charts have it on page "10-9 General", and the like. The info you have seems to be current still.

OSL: NOISE ABATEMENT PROC
RWY 01L/19R, 19L: ICAO standard NADP 2 applies. RWY 01R: ICAO standard NADP 1 applies.

GOT: NOISE ABATEMENT PROC
ICAO standard NAP (NADP 2) applies

CPH/ARN has nothing listed, so follow company SOP :ok:

[MrGren]

Thanks a lot for the information guys. I am obviously not in SAS ;) so just to confirm: Standard company OP is 1000 AGL: clean up flaps, 1500: CLB Thrust? Or was that another companys SOP?

And SAS/ERM charts are not available to the public?

[Goldenbawls]

No, the ERM charts are not public I´m afraid..

A typical climb profile for most carriers (following plain Boeing proc) looks something like this:

- V2 plus 10-20 (depends on type) to 1000’ AGL
- At 1000’ Set Climb Power
- Continue constant speed climb to 1500’ AGL
- At 1500’, accelerate and retract flaps on schedule
- Constant speed climb to 3,000’ AGL (or go straight for 250)
- At 3000’, accelerate to 250 kts
- 250 knots to 10,000’

In Norway AIP, looking at OSL, you will not find NADP1 or 2 explicitly, but you will find this on the textpages: (Along with a bunch of useless crap)
After take-off all aircraft exceeding 5700 kg MTOM shall climb to at least 3700 FT AMSL using the speeds, engine power and flaps settings which are accepted as standard in noise sensitive areas. (ICAO Procedures for Air Navigation Services - Aircraft Operations (PANS-OPS Doc 8168), Vol I - Flight Procedures, refers.)
Sounds a lot like NADP1 as field elevation is about 700 feet. Dunno, it´s a mess. What else is new?
Btw, the reference to the SID-charts are there just to confirm you have to file/fly a published SID.. AFAIK.

[Starsurfer]

There Are infact 4 defined NADP 1 and 2 and the older A and B. All these prosedures end at 3000 AGL. NADP 1 and 2 states selection of climb thrust at 800feet AGL. NADP 1 says to keep v2 +10-20 kts to 3000 accelerate and retract flap. NADP 2 says to start accelerating and retract flap at 800feet climb with vcleen to 3000AGL. NADP A is the same as 1 except select climb thrust at 1500 feet AGL. NADP B states start flap retraction at 1000 feet when at Vzf select climb pwr and climb to 3000 AGL at Vzf.

Norwegian uses NADP 2 as SOP

[K21]

Be aware that rwy 01R at ENGM has NADP 1, the rest of the rwy´s uses NADP 2.