How long it takes to go solo?

[Tiger_ Moth]

I was wondering , how long on average does it take to go solo?
How long might it take if you had say a 1 hour lesson a week?
I know that instructors can let you go whenever they think you are ready but what is average? How long would it take a really good person and how long would it take a REALLY hopeless person???

[Delta Wun-Wun]

Time to first solo is really up to the individual.Can be as little as 6hrs or as much as 30hrs.I managed it in 18hrs.You will solo when you are ready...That is when you are happy and your Instructor is happy.

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GET THE BLOODY NOSE DOWN!

[Sleeve Wing]

Basically,its "How long's a piece of string?"
As you say, your Instructor will send you when he thinks you're safe.
;) ;) ;)

[Speedbird252]

I agree with the above, dont get into trying to work out an average time to go to solo, you could be unlucky and have crosswinds during your early circuit work, making it longer, or you could be lucky and have no wind and glorious sun, making you ready in a shorter amount of lessons.

Just enjoy it and when it comes, youll wonder what the fuss was about.......

[Tiger_ Moth]

hmmmmm......yes,yes I see..
Its just that I need to get it done quickly as I`m on a budget that is exceedingly tight.
Has anyone had expierience on the Tiger Moth? if so how long did it take u to solo on it as thats what ill learn on and im told it takes longer to solo on it than on a cessna.
thanks for the replies guys

[Wrong Stuff]

I did a little in one once. Lovely airplanes for going nowhere!

If I was to guess - probably highly inaccurately - I'd say it would take between 20% and 40% longer to solo in one. Unfortunately, this doesn't help a great deal coz you still don't know how long you'd take to solo in a Cessna, but you might be able to work out some comparative costs.

The factors are...

- It's simply more difficult to handle - things like it being a taildragger, having to land it with your head out the side watching the ASI in the front cockpit, more complex startup and learning to taxy without being able to see where you're going and with no brakes.

- It's less forgiving than something like a Cessna, so your instructor's got to be more confident about you not making any c*ckups before he'll send you solo.

- IIRC its got a pretty low crosswind limit, hence more days unflyable, more lessons cancelled, bigger breaks between lessons and more time going back over stuff you've forgotten. Against that, being flown from the grass, many places can just realign the runway and circuits - depends where you're flying from.

- Many places treat their ageing Tigers very carefully, so they want a much higher competency and higher safety margin before they'll let anyone lose in one on their own.

- When it's u/s or off for servicing not many places have more than one other to spread the load, so you'd probably get more downtime there as well.

If you're on a really tight budget, the other thing to think about is whether you'll be able to afford to stay current once you've got your licence. In terms of bang per buck you might be better off doing your basic training in microlights and then going back to the Tiger Moth at a later stage. Maybe even get a microlight licence which you can build up some cheaper hours on before converting.

Unfortunately, that might be the sensible thing to do, but learning to fly in a Tiger Moth is a decision of the heart not the mind :-)

[Tricky Woo]

Tiger_Moth,

As an aside to the all good advice above, I'd like to warn you that there are a lot of pilots who get unnecessarily 'competitive' by how few (or many) hours they take to go solo. Ignore all this nonsense.

Some pilots solo in a breathtakingly short time... and then get bogged down in subsequent parts of their PPLs. Others seem to take forever to solo... and then zip through the rest of their PPL like they were born with wings. Swings 'n' roundabouts, matey.

Good luck during your hours leading to up your first solo. As for the first solo itself? Magical... truly magical.

[FNG]

First, as everyone else says, don't get fixated on time to first solo. There are too many variables, and there's lots still to do after soloing.

Second, if you learn on a Tiger you will probably end up a more proficient PPL than most. It is much more demanding than a tin can trike, but forces you to develop real skills which you can take with you to any type of aircraft.

I have a few hours on Tigers: they are very hard work. They want to go sideways at all stages of flight, and on the ground. Flying one is physically tiring as you are always on the ruddder. Great fun though and well worth it. Something equally characterful, cheap and good for your flying, although less hard work, is a Piper Cub. Pulling off a smooth three pointer in one of those is very rewarding.

The opportunity to learn on a vintage taildragger aircraft is one you should not miss. Just try not to obsess about the time taken: you are flying right from the first lesson to the last. Good luck and enjoy.

[Tiger_ Moth]

Hmmm...hmmm...yesss....quite
good advice: everyone give yourselves a pat on the back

The thing is that I had wanted to solo early so id get my license early so i could then do aerobatics. But i suppose its true: it might take long to go solo but then id be quicker in other places. I dont really feel competitive about going solo quickly but having said that I would feel a certain amount of shame announcing it took me 30hrs to go solo.
The thing about microlights is that theyre not quite the same as tigers and not THAT much cheaper as ive found a place that offers Tiger Moth and instructor for £100 an hour (!) cheaper than a lot of cessnas!

And does anybody know what happens to people who let their license go off current?
Are they sent to a type of hell or something?
Do they have to pay £400 for a re issue test or something?
And is it that you need 12 hours in 2 years so u could have 6 in each or that you need 12 hours in the second year from issue even if u put in some hours in the first?

I would like to advertise my thred in the questions forum about your favourite planes, please go and say whats your favourite and why. thanks

[Mark 1]

I agree with all thats been said, it will depend on weather, continuity etc. etc.

But I do recall a survey many years ago that concluded the average hours to solo was half the age of the pilot. Soon after reading this I noted that a 70 year old student on our field finally went solo after 35 hours.

There's obviously a lot more to it than age, but interesting anyhow.

[Tiger_ Moth]

8.5 hours YOWZA!

[DB6]

Tiger, average time to solo 10-15 hours, maybe a little more in a Tiger Moth. It doesn't matter to some people but it does to the RAF, whose pilots must solo in a certain number of hours or get the chop (on the RAF scholarship it's 11 hours) HOWEVER that is 11 hours full-time very day flying, not once a week etc. You don't have to wait to get your licence before starting aerobatics - get into it straight away, it will improve your handling skills no end but DON'T try it without getting tuition first. To keep your licence current it's 12 hours in the second year, doesn't matter how much in the first, and one of those hours has to be with an instructor. If your CofT lapses you have to do an LPC (Licence Proficiency Check) with an examiner - basically a mini skill test with no nav element - and if it lapses by more than 5 years it's a word with the CAA to see what they decree. The cheapest way to keep current, therefore, is to do an LPC every 2 years with no other flying except practice for the LPC (NB I am not advocating that course of action). Where is the Tiger for £100 anyway? Nowhere near Scotland I'll bet - I will fly one eventually.
Cheers DB6

[Saab Dastard]

Tiger M,

Do I take it from your latest post that you have done your solo in the moth in 8.5 hours?

Congratulations if so.

I can think of few things as delightful as going solo in an open cockpit biplane :)

SD



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Hoping and praying should never be confused with planning...

[FNG]

If you did go solo, well done indeed. Right now I am experiencing the frustration of trying to get solo on my own aeroplane. I've bought one third of a Cap 10, and am converting onto type with my instructor/co-owner. Today is a glorious day but I still need another hour or so of circuits to be signed off and my instructor mate is not available. Grrrr.

[Tiger_ Moth]

DB6, how can i do aerobatics before i get my ppl? wouldnt that be a sort of talk the instructor into it kinda under the table thing? what if i couldnt persuade my instructor? I wouldnt be able to do them solo before completing my ppl....would i?
However if its a case of talking round it might not be that hard because the instructors do it for free because they love tiger moths and would probably prefer aerobatics to watching a pupil struggling to keep the plane straight and level. more info on this please, so much that i couldnt possibly have a question to ask you at the end.
By the way the Tigers for £100 / hour are in Cambridge, Newmarket Rd. Its the only place in the world where you can do a ppl on a tiger moth, i think. Its so cheap because i dont think they make a profit form it, the instructors are only paid expenses or something.

Finding out you can do aerobatics before completing a ppl is the best thing ive found out since i discovered you could do ppls on Tiger Moths asmy ppl is at least more than a year away. Please tell me more!

SD thanks for your congratulations on my solo which i havent done yet. 8.5 yowza was in reference to marks replie which suggested solo time is half the age of the pupil. : 17 : 8.5. If i did it in 8.5 hours i would be pleased and would exclaim : YOWZA to one and all.
As it is i havent even started yet, ive just had the trial lesson ( ages ago), ive been saving up for the lessons for ages and hope to start this June.
If u like tigers u should pop along to Cambridge too.
O, and CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!! on your solo, am i to deduce that u did it in 9 hours??? if so thats SUPER - TASTIC!!!!!!

[Saab Dastard]

TM,

Yes, 9 hours (8 hours, 50 minutes to be precise)

I have some gliding experience (25 hours, 150 landings ;) ) accumulated over the last 10 years, so I started with a bit of an advantage, like knowing which end is the front, etc.

SD


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Hoping and praying should never be confused with planning...

[barbox]

Tiger Moth,,,,,as you have only visited 2 airfields, and one of those was Wycombe Air Park,,, suggest you get round a few more and visit a few more,, or are you just looking for 'friendly' airfields?.

?????????????????????????????????????!

[FNG]

Tiger Moth, there is nothing "under the table" about a ppl student doing dual aerobatics. A military pilot would do aeros as part of his basic training. There is no formal aerobatics rating or licence, and you can learn aeros whenever you like (but don't do them solo until you have been properly checked out by an aeros instructor). I fondly remember my instructor concluding my first lesson with a wing over and an aileron roll, and after I did the QXC we literally rolled all the way home from Duxford to our base.
I believe that the Cambridge Tigers are ex military and so are cleared for intentional spinning (ex civvie ones lack the strakes and are not), so you should do some of that during the course and doubtless the instructors will be keen that you should.

[Tiger_ Moth]

barbox , ive no reason to look for another airfield because i want to do my ppl on a Tiger Moth and this place in Cambridge is the only place in Britain,probably the world that does that, and also has the cheapest Moth hourly prices i`ve ever seen which is important for me. I wasnt looking for a friendly airfield, i thought most were until i read that thread about the out of order CFI but if i did find a scary airfield then why would i go there when i could go to a not scary airfield?

FNG , thats REALLY good news but r u sure theres no official rating? isnt there an aerobatics rating 1,2 and 3 or something? 1 allows u to practice aerobatics solo above 3000 feet, 2 solo above 2000feet and 1 allows u to do aeros solo above 1000feet and above the airfield. Or is this a not officially recognised thing that some places like to use?
What plane were u in when u did the aileron role? was it military or what? because i knew that military pilots can do whatever the military allows them, they arent controlled by the CAA and thye learn aerobatics early on. thanks for the reply FNG

[Speedbird48]

4,1/2hrs. Miles Magister, 1955. Currently 12,890.
As for the aerobatics bit, get a good instructor and do not try and teach yourself.
And finally do not run before you can walk, it makes for a longer life!!

[Tiger_ Moth]

4.5 hours huh speedbird? i guess u think that makes u some kind of god. well...i suppose it does. well done.
4.5 hours !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOWZA!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thats like WW1 time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i just cant get over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i like the magister because it reminds me of a tiger moth without the top wing.
Of course i wont try to teach myself aerobatics, they wouldnt let me and up until yesterday i thought i had to do a full ppl before i got to so dont worry about me dying that way.
12,000 hours huh? u a proffesional? what planes have u flown? have u ever flown through a barn????
did u ever see a barnstormer before they became extinct????

4.5 hours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i cant get over this guy!

[DB6]

Tiger Moth, as FNG says there's nothing at all wrong with doing aeros before you get your PPL, just ask your instructors - they'll probably jump at the chance. There is no CAA aerobatics rating although AOPA have an aerobatics course syllabus of 10 hours which is probably the nearest thing to one. There is also nothing wrong with doing solo aeros before you get your PPL BUT that will depend entirely on whether your instructors permit it. The ratings you have heard about are probably display authorisations issued by the CAA to professional display pilots, not sure but I think the lowest is about 50 feet. Yeehaa!

[wobblyprop]

Tiger,

I went solo after 10 hours during my PPL. I was doing 1 hour a week (sometimes i squeezed more in). I think the advice is, stay current ;)

Enjoy

[Captain Airclues]

My #2 son went solo in 3 hour 40 minutes on the PA-18 (Super Cub) at Clacton, when he was 17.

Airclues

[Tiger_ Moth]

10 hours huh? well done prop.what was that in?
Airclue, 3 hours 40 minutes!!!! thats outrageously amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!
its CrAZy!!!!!!!
when was that?
he should be very proud.was this in america?

Thanks to everyone else who replied and dont worry i wont start looping the plane 10 feet above the airfield on my first solo..............not without my instructors permission at least hehe

[Captain Airclues]

Tiger_Moth

It was August 1994. Clacton is in Essex, UK. I would recommend you to look into it if you want to do your PPL on a 'real' aeroplane. PPL on a PA-18 (taildragger) costs about £4000 including accommodation. Cheaper than your D.H.82A, and a lot warmer.

Airclues

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

My advice - stick with the Tiger. the skills you'll learn compared to a trike PPL will be of great value all yor flying life - and are basic flying skills which you can apply to any aeroplane. Many PPLs have poor 'stick and rudder' skills because you can fly trikes without being particularly co-ordinated or being able to land properly (fully held off - where appropriate).

Also, IMHO try to concentrate your training pre-solo. Before my first solo (10 hours, C150) I had a lesson a day for a week, whereas my usual rate was a lesson a week (weather permitting).

Most of all, Enjoy!

SSD

[rockaria]

I went solo after 8.5 hours as well Tiger in a C150 having originally started on the tomahawks and that was only flying at weekends, but i was lucky with consistent nice wx (in the UK!! dont think its happened since!).

However aside from that i think you can also do your PPL in a tiger moth at White Waltham. I remember my PPL examiner telling me, however i dont know whether this is still the case.

Good luck and when you pass i will happily be a passenger in the Tiger http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/redface.gif) (hint hint)

rocky

[Tiger_ Moth]

White Waltham huh?
hmmmm.......my guide says it has "tiger moth coaching" which i dont think is a ppl, i think it just means u can say learn aerobatics on it or just learn to fly it if u already have a ppl...i think
But at £160 per hour i think i prefer my £100 tiger moth anyway
Interesting all the same

I think they also have the largest bi plane in the world there, : AN2 antonov which is about £320 an hour

8.5 hours, well done rocky

[kabz]

Tiger, you might want to fly gliders for a bit if power flying is going to be 'financially stressing'. You can still do aerobatics !! Spins, wingovers, loops... And no engine to mess with or worry about.

It's a great way to have properly coordinated flying and good landings hammered into you. Land with a sideload and the wing is straight into the ground...

[FNG]

TM, sorry for belated reply. My training aircraft was a Beagle Pup 150, which is cleared for basic aeros as is a very nice aircraft as trikes go. Now I've moved on to things with the wheels in the right place.

You can get dual training in a Moth at Waltham, but I'm not sure that you can do the PPL on one there, and not even sure that you can solo them (insurance restrictions, probably). The Tiger Moth ppl at Cambridge sounds marvellous. I met one of the instructors from that course (he taught me how to hand swing a Gipsy Major) and formed a very good impression of the outfit.