EGLL Special.

[HeathrowAirport]

Hello,

I was wondering if there is any documents providing Information on Heathrow special, what it does and what it is for and how its is operated? Anything really. I just want to read up about it.

Thanks

[goatface]

Its one of two things:
1. What HD and Mr Grubby do now they are retired and is dispensed from that catering truck in the new VCR car park.
2 Bacon, 2 sausage, mushrooms, black pudding and tomatoes - all served in a big bap - marvellous value at only 2 Lunchon Vouchers each..

or,

2. Gonzo's other job - believe me, you don't want to know.. :p

[Gonzo]

Robbie,

Heathrow Special is based at Terminal Control at Swanwick and controls the low-level helicopter and fixed wing traffic in the London Control Zone. They work alongside Thames Radar. To be honest I'm not sure what is in the public domain to provide more details.

[HeathrowAirport]

Hi Gonzo, thanks do they control Denham, White whaltam top down?

[Defruiter]

No, they have their own service.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<White whaltam top down>>

????????????

Try reading the AIP - it's all in there.

[Skipness One Echo]

You must surely know that you can buy an airband scanner and tune it to 125.625MHz and find out for yourself.

* not that you ought to as it's technically not allowed but any airshow crowd seems to have loads er....alongwith a stand selling them

[HeathrowAirport]

A few questions regarding on Operations for the Police Heli and Virgin Medivac.

What is the phraseology for UKP251 entering the zone and for example wishes to travel south of London Bridge to operate - and then when hes ready to return to Lippits? What is said by both sides? Can I have an example please.

Also If UKP251 wishes to operate Inside Class A were the ILS is, for example 3 miles out 27L (Landing obviously would be given to 27R unless already is) I've noted that F_APP gives decent clearence too 1500ft**/2000ft?? further clearence with tower? once on towers frequency what is said to the Inbound?

And whats the praseology between both parties UKP251 and Heathrow Tower when the Helicopter is operating close to the Landing ILS. Also I would like to know do they always follow H3 + H10 to get close to Heathrow to conduct there search etc?

Thanks.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Also If UKP251 wishes to operate Inside Class A were the ILS is, for example 3 miles out 27L (Landing obviously would be given to 27R unless already is) I've noted that F_APP gives decent clearence too 1500ft**/2000ft?? further clearence with tower? once on towers frequency what is said to the Inbound?>>

I do not understand what you are trying to say. The whole of the airspace around Heathrow is Class A, not just 3 miles out on the ILS.

What is "F_APP"????

[Scott Diamond]

He means FIN director I think

[Sir George Cayley]

Is this a suitable topic for discussion?

Sir George Cayley

[Dizzee Rascal]

You must surely know that you can buy an airband scanner and tune it to 125.625MHz and find out for yourself.

Do they have enough staff to open that one up these days? Haven't had to put anyone over to that one for yonks.

[Scott Diamond]

FYI it is HLE for "Helimed" and not HMD

[Skipness One Echo]

Do they have enough staff to open that one up these days? Haven't had to put anyone over to that one for yonks.

Yes it is manned but often bandboxed with Thames Radar on 132.7MHz

Heathrow Airport you MUST know that if anyone from the Police sees that question they might actually want to talk to you ! Eeeek

[Monkey Madness]

Quote:
You must surely know that you can buy an airband scanner and tune it to 125.625MHz and find out for yourself.
Do they have enough staff to open that one up these days? Haven't had to put anyone over to that one for yonks.

125.625.... on a good day I'll take from, and hand off to them at least a dozen an hour.

[Talkdownman]

Do they have enough staff to open that one up these days? Haven't had to put anyone over to that one for yonksSVFR is probably band-boxed with TR much of the time for 'staffing reasons'. Technically SVFR and TR should not be cross-coupled between 0700L and 2030L (see IAIP EGLL AD 2.18 (http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/ad/EGLL/EG_AD_2_EGLL_en.pdf)) because the functions and callsigns are different. I suspect that to minimise the necessary operation of two separate transceivers you are probably being asked for SVFR traffic to be put to (the wrong) frequency 132.7 so that all traffic is on a single freq, in which case 125.625 might be 'left on speaker'. Then along will come an ATCO not qualified to 'band-box' in which case SVFR will be 'opened up' and 125.625 will receive undivided attention......;)

[paulthornton]

Whilst on the subject of special, is there a different callsign for them - or is it simply "Heathrow Radar"?

I've used "Heathrow Special" in the past but have never been totally certain as I've heard several variations used on air - and I think the last time I spoke to you nice people I simply called you "Heathrow". Well, it was geographically descriptive if nothing else :}

Does ATC care about the station being called in that much detail (ie: even if bandboxed, the initial message will make it very clear about the type of traffic, where it is and what we want rather than the frequency being used and/or the callsign).

Paul.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

The AIP says "Heathrow Radar".

[paulthornton]

Yes indeed HD - I had waded through the AIP entry for Heathrow which is clear about this. The question I was thinking about in my mind was this:

In the bandboxed environment there might be several Heathrow Radars on the same frequency with only one of them as SVFR. Is there any ambiguity when frequencies doing a slightly different job with the same callsign are bandboxed?

From my limited experience of operating in an environment where frequencies are bandboxed, all I know from the pilot's side is that you hear everyone on both frequencies and there is one controller. I don't know from the ATC side if this is a non-issue as you can immediately see what frequency you're being called up on. Apologies if it is and I'll go away quietly and call SVFR "Heathrow Radar" in future regardless of whatever anyone else may call them on frequency!

Paul.

[Talkdownman]

In the bandboxed environment there might be several Heathrow Radars on the same frequency with only one of them as SVFR.You will see from the link (http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/ad/EGLL/EG_AD_2_EGLL_en.pdf) that there is only one 'Heathrow Radar', and that provides the Heathrow Special VFR Service. (127.525 is a spare frequency. 121.5 is, of course, the Emergency frequency.)

Is there any ambiguity when frequencies doing a slightly different job with the same callsign are bandboxed?Not really. You will see from the link (http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/ad/EGLL/EG_AD_2_EGLL_en.pdf)that at certain times Heathrow Special VFR Service is provided by 'Thames Radar' or 'Heathrow Director' when the Heathrow Special VFR Service console is not staffed.

From my limited experience of operating in an environment where frequencies are bandboxed, all I know from the pilot's side is that you hear everyone on both frequencies and there is one controller.
What you are describing here is 'cross-coupling', not necessarily 'band-boxing'.

I don't know from the ATC side if this is a non-issue as you can immediately see what frequency you're being called up on.
Not when cross-coupled.

I'll go away quietly and call SVFR "Heathrow Radar" in future regardless of whatever anyone else may call them on frequency
The link (http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/ad/EGLL/EG_AD_2_EGLL_en.pdf) tells you from what callsign (and, therefore, which agency) the Heathrow SVFR Service is available, and at which times. Suffice it to say, the callsign is 'Heathrow Radar' between 7 a.m. and 8.30 p.m., enough for most customers.....

There is no accounting for customers using the wrong callsign on the correct frequency.