Brand new Packard Merlin ?

[alvin-sfc]

I have a hyperthetical question for you experts,out there. If somebody discovered a brand new, zero-houred, Packard built Merlin, complete with custom built toolkit out there, how much do you think an enthusiast might pay for it? Also, is it true that these engines were only leased and not sold to the RAF/ So if one was discovered, who would be the owner?

[stepwilk]

I doubt very much that North American leased their Merlins from Rolls...

[deltayankee]

Stick an ad on ebay and see how much people offer. And if RR wants to claim ownership they will take legal action, though I doubt that it would work.

Perhaps, though, you will get more from an aircraft owner or museum than an enthusiast. For someone who just wants to show the engine in their living room any old battered Merlin will do.

[ZeBedie]

If you put it on ebay, better call it N.O.S. rather than 'brand new'.

[Agaricus bisporus]

NOS ????????????

[spekesoftly]

New Old Stock

[Agaricus bisporus]

What? Why????

[spekesoftly]

See New old stock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_old_stock)

[Bus429]

Over 25 years ago, I was part of a team rebuilding a famous British bomber. The team received all sorts of bits and pieces over the years and one, found by a museum, was a brand new, boxed, engine. Unfortunately, it had not escaped the ravages of time and it had to be completely stripped and salvaged of the bits that could be restored.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Yeah, right. Brand new, then...

[Bus429]

Yep, new means nothing in this context...

[ZeBedie]

Anyway, I'll give you a monkey for it!

[david parry]

Reminds me about the Time. that VW bought the RR factory at Crewe. We had a pristine Merlin engine on display , for customers to see. When the German owners moved in, it was hidden away:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[dixi188]

If we are talking about a Packard built engine then perhaps the owners would be American.

My Father worked on many Merlins during the war and after. He said you could always tell a Packard Merlin without opening the cowlings. They always leaked a lot of oil!

I have a few Merlin tools that have proved useful on later RR engines. ie. Dart.

[Cornish Jack]

You could check with Barrington Hares - he built one a few years back, from scratch, no castings ... at 1/5th scale, complete with WORKING VP prop!!! Engineering artistry of a genius.:D:D:D

[mr fish]

speaking of "outside the box" mechanics, i remember an article in BIKE
magazine about 20 years ago concerning a aussie guy who (for all intents and purposes) cut the last two cylinders from a merlin to make a
v2 style engine for his homemade custom cruiser!!

and i used to think Harleys on open pipes were loud:eek:

[Bus429]

I read somewhere that the build standard of Packard Merlins was better than that of British-built examples. I think the Aussies also produced them under licence.

[aviate1138]

Although Packard built the Merlin in the USA [58,000 of them] it was Ford who told Rolls Royce how to mass produce engines.

"The notion that while Packard could only mass produce some sort of inferior clone of the Merlin engineering masterpieces coming out of the RR factories is risible. RR factories at Derby, Crewe, and Glasgow as well as Ford’s factory at Manchester were all mass production, using similar naïve work forces as Packard. It was in fact Ford that showed RR how to mass produce the Merlin, and they were built to Ford standards, with much of the machinery to do it designed, built, and supplied by Ford."
"Building began in March 1940. Smith was appointed as Controller and part of the former Ford factory at Trafford Park was used for preparatory work by draughtsmen and tool-makers. It was during this period that RR received a shock. The events were described by Sir Stanley Hooker. (3)

“A number of Ford engineers arrived at Derby and spent some months examining the drawings and manufacturing methods. One day, their chief engineer said ‘You know, we can’t build the Merlin to these measurements’.
“I replied loftily ‘I suppose that is because the drawing tolerances are too difficult for you, and you can’t achieve the accuracy’.

“On the contrary, the tolerances are far too wide for us. We make motor cars far more accurately than this. Every part on our car engines has to be interchangeable with the same part on any other engine, and hence, all parts have to be made with extreme accuracy, far closer than you use. That is the only way we can achieve mass production’.”

"In the following silence, one of Hooker’s colleagues asked what Ford proposed. He was told complete new drawings were required, to Ford standards. It took about a year to produce the 20,000 drawings. Hooker went on to say that this led to an enormous success with Merlins coming out “like shelling peas, and very good engines they were too”.

"Ford’s investment in machinery and management paid off handsomely. The 10,000 man-hours needed to produce a Merlin dropped to 2,727 in three years. The unit cost fell from £6,540 in June 1941 to £1,180 by the war’s end. The percentage of engines rejected by the Air Ministry was zero. Not one engine of the 30,400 produced was rejected."

Ford declined the chance to build Merlins in the USA as Henry Ford thought Britain would lose the war, so Packard got the contract.

[alvin-sfc]

If the engine had been stored in the correct environment, would it have fared better, do you think? Would mothballing preserve perfectly?

[Croqueteer]

:)Packard-Merlins I think were part of the lease-lend agreement and as such belong to the USA. Together with aircraft and such like they had to be destroyed at the end of the war. It is well documented that Corairs were flown off carriers pilotless, mostly in the Indian Ocean. There is a hole in the groung less than two miles from where I live, full of fully inhibited PMs. From aerial surveys, I have a possible site. My source of info is the father of one of my work collegues who was the local RAF station warrant officer (Remember the SWO-man?) and he supervised the work party.