EK A380's...

[yankee22]

Does anyone have any insight on the delivery status of EK's A380's???

Rumour has it the company is trying to delay the other 3 deliveries for 2009. Apparently managemant has even gone to Airbus requesting the delays. Sighting light load factors.

Any truth to it or is all BS?? Anyone know if the deliveries are still on schedule?

[Payscale]

Well if EK it retraining A380 crews back to the A330, then it a clear indication that no further aircraft are coming for a long time...:{

[MrMachfivepointfive]

Nope. Delta Echo is due this month and the November/December deliveries (wave two aircraft) are on track.

[SOPS]

what are "wave 2" aircraft?

[my salami]

.....the more reliable version of tha A 180 that are supposed to go tech once every 2 flights instead of every flight.. :}

[yankee22]

Any ideas as to how many are coming in Oct/Nov/Dec? Is that information out there or is it top secret like everything else around here?

[three eighty]

Originally planned 2 in November and 2 in December but Airbus can't meet this delivery schedule so revised to 1 in November and 1 in December. The other 2 will follow early 2010 ie: ???January and February???

[TwinJock]

EK002 dropped a load of baggage on the runway in DXB after landing - baggage door opened during landing!!!!!!

Apologies to those stuck in the hold, those that had to divert, and last but not least, passengers with road rash baggage.

With the amount of problems experienced with these "beauties", I won't be surprised if EK is more than happy to defer further deliveries!

[my hands are tied]

Tomato flavoured condiment ? :uhoh:

Any other info?

[Dropp the Pilot]

Even before any of the debacles of the last few months had occurred I suggested starting a pool to see who could guess how many of the ludicrous devices we would end up with. I'll hazard it is something in single digits.

The entire project 'twas never more than the latest excrescence of Gallic hubris.

If you think this thing could ever make money, please select a Gabi flight plan and let me know what you propose. It is a pointless device.

[Marooned]

I guess they will all be grounded pending checks?

Thankfully it opened on the ground...

[MrMachfivepointfive]

Oh come on... An A380 does not carry baggage as bulk. And even if the cargo door WOULD open, containers don't just take a hike.
It was an ECAM warning and as EK2 arrives at night, someone had to inspect the runway.

By the way: There is no such thing as a GABI flight plan (at least not at EK). Back to transition training, don't pass START, don't collect AED 4000.--

[yada.yada.yada]

Just jealous 777 dudes :p. They will take all 58. Not to worry, they will make money, lots of it. :ok:

[Tower Ranger]

The result of the EK02 hold door indication problem was four go-arounds, all departures stopped for 15 mins and one Ek diversion afaik. The funniest thing was Emirates bods phoning to demand the reason for the delay on their outbounds, are these people robots?

[yankee22]

Just recieved word that the A380 deliveries scheduled for fall of 2009 have been postponed till sometime in mid 2010. Very reliable source.

Looks like the guys going back will be there for a while. Prob will stay and do their command there. Wouldnt make much sense to retrain them back on the A380 again. Would be a waste of time and money.

[fatbus]

Does that mean EK will pay back some of the compensation ?

[pool]

Drop the pilot- 135 more 3 class seats on a 380- fill them and you get far more YIELD than a 777

I have a hard time believing this.....

Last 2 Flts ( 777 / 380 ):
Pax load factors both ~ 58%, payload factor ~ 70% (both similar mix F/J/Y)
kg fuel vs. kg transported 777: 2.58 380: 3.73

hypothetically filled to max payload: (777 restr. by ~ 5t)
burn vs. (max) pax 777: 0.31 380: 0.37
burn vs. (max) kg transport. 777: 2.06 380: 2.75


These values show more than 20% more specific burn on the actually configured A380. The yield must be astronomical on the additional J and F class passengers to cover that!
I guess wishfull thinking.

[Bus429]

What or when is the "fall of 2009"??
Is it a "stateside" thing? I notice Ed uses the term sometimes. The start of the year? The end of the year? A season?? Do we even have seasons in the UAE? (other than hot and not-hot)......
Autumn - don't you know nuffink?:hmm:

[mensaboy]

None of us can determine which aircraft is more economical because we are not provided with enough information. Your logic seems reasonable but there are other costs, such as maintenance, dispatch reliability, initial procurement costs, extra crew costs, just to give a few examples.

Based simply on fuel vs load, the A380 might be more economical provided the load factors are high. I suspect a B777 is more cost effective at 80% load factor than an A380 at 80% load factor. Isn't fuel about 30% of an airlines cost, with employee costs running a close second? The cost of fuel varies wildly too, such as in the past year.

My whole point, is that only a few of the bean-counters and the bosses really know which aircraft types are performing the best. I would bet though, the B777 surpasses any Airbus type when it comes to economics.

As an aside, can anyone give a reasonable explanation why statistics show that Airbus pilots generally take more 'additional' fuel than their Boeing counterparts? It might be something as simple as the differences in route structure, but I have often wondered about the discrepancy.

[Jet II]

then you have 135000 vs the 60000 = more profit.

Am I missing something here or am I oversimplifying?

But you havn't factored in the 777 flying behind carrying all the bags, freight and spares that you cant get on the Whale.. :ouch:

[atiuta]

If the 380 leaves F28 and arrives at F28, how economic is that?

[pool]

Am I missing something here or am I oversimplifying?

No, but we are talking different values. It is hard to tell how yield impacts either performance, prices are so volatile and the company will not reveal it anyway. You can claim victory on yield as long as you want, it's your business anyway!
I am pointing at the claimed economical and environemental performance of the A380. If you look at the values it delivers, kg fuel vs. kg payload, both are behind the 777. Maybe NOx is better, but the burn is way too high. Explanation is simple: The bird weighs too much, not only due to the pathetic EK implants, but just as much coming out of Toulouse. It should be sent back Toulouse some weight!

A brand new aircraft design should basically not rely on yield to beat its rivals, as yield shows too many outside influences, not well controlable by the operator. It should outperform on burn vs. load and distance in the first place.

Second thing that is noteworthy: The 777 was the first all new aircraft designed from schratch, entirely by CAD, as almost all new designs after it. That was a huge risk, I remember all the predictions about entry in service. Now looking back, it made this very smoothly, good dispatch reliablity right from the start and kept it up to today. I just say that because this argument is now streched to excuse the not so shiny reliability of the A380, also a new plane designed by CAD (oh, yeah ...) and with basically the same technology.

I would have loved the bird to succeed, but it is quite a flop up to today and needs some serious revamping. EADS and EK might succeed in doing just that, but they will not, if they continue to cover-up the deficiencies, just for PR and face saving issues. Admit the flaw, like Ferrari at the F1 today, and stick your ears between your legs and start working on improvement.

[White Knight]

Well pool - the 777 might have had a smooth entry in to EK service, but I do remember it being called the 'Cripple 7' by the Nigels..... Lots of 180 activity back then with it:}

[A300Man]

Recession? What recession?

Has the A380 started on the daily morning service to BKK yet and - if so - what are the loads like on this popular route?

I am planning a trip in Summer and thought I would take advantage of the Whale's presence on the route to break my 380 duck. However, can't get a seat on it in F or J for love nor money in the combination of inbound and outbound dates that I am compelled to take. Y is widely available though.

[Skylion]

EK were the second operator of the A380 and , especially with the very slow delivery rate, will pay a price for that in terms of reliability. The 777 was well proven and bugs removed before arriving in the fleet. The early 380s bugs will be sorted even if it is a slow process because of the relatively small and slow growing fleets.
The A 380 has its niche- and one which will grow. It is heavy for its size primarily because it is actually too small, the heavy wing and central structure being capable of supporting a much bigger/longer aircraft. The initial version is much as a 747SP to a 747. The recession will be tailing off in a year or two,- three at the most,- and the need for the bigger aircraft (which both Emirates and Cathay have said they want) will re-emerge and with the stretch its seat/mile costs will improve enormously. Even now it is the cheapest way in terms of aircraft mile cost to carry the difference between its capacity and that of a 777-300LR.
Many of the previous posts under this heading seem to be based on the long running Boeing good, Airbus bad battle and vice versa of course. The 777 is good and it will remain the very useful and versatile aircraft it is for a long time. The 787 on the other hand in its present form, apart from its production difficulties ,may well turn out to be too small at its midlife point as it offers much the same capacity as the 767-300 which was already suffering this problem with many carriers. The midlife point, not the date of introduction, is the oneto keep your eye on in figuring out the revenue/profit contribution of any aircraft over its life with a company. Emirates and others have for some time been urging a stretch , but Boeing, flush with orders and suffering 24/27 month delivery delays want to maximise return on the existing models and also delay a stretched 787 eating into 777 orders as naturally they want to maximise the return on that project. In doing so they risk losing the early market to the A 350 but at the moment they seem willing to take that risk in the interests of shorter term profitability. Presumably their financial people will have worked out exactly when they have to bite the bullet or do something else for the 350 seat market.