Puma 2 to be scrapped. Surplus Puma pilots to be re-roled Typhoon

[phoenix5]

I've just been hearing via a fairly reputable source that the considered Puma 2 may be not be as sure footed as was first thought. Apparently, if it doesn't make it through the budget cuts then there will be a whole host of Puma pilots without an airframe to fly. The decision on Puma 2 will coincide with the next tranche of Typhoon. The measure being considered is to put the surplus Puma aircrews through a shortened fast jet course to enable the arrival of the new jets to go by without any stall whatsoever. Lets just see what happens.

[Door Slider]

I heard they were all off to Apache

[Bob Viking]

Oh God. Here we go!
BV:D

[AYTCH]

Like the size of the hook on that line!

[R 21]

All the surplus crewman are off to train the australian ladies beach volley ball team for the summer......FACT!!;)

[fact_attack]

Joking aside, I've heard it banded about as a possibility. There's going to be a lot of surplus pilots if Puma 2 falls through (which it will after the FLynx contract was agreed)

[Backwards PLT]

I know somewhere else that is far more short of pilots than Typhoon (depending on timing ofc) and former puma pilots have done well. Additionally they will already be acclimatised to the desert conditions and will actually use their operational experience!

[TheWizard]

So, let me see....trained helicopter pilots going off to fly fast jets when there is a shortage of...........







yes, you guessed it......trained helicopter pilots. Public Service - Helicopter crew shortages on the rise (http://www.publicservice.co.uk/news_story.asp?id=8764)

Of course with that logic it is almost guaranteed to happen!!:ugh

Edit: Not everything in that article should be believed though!!:}
With up to 28 Merlins bound for Afghanistan in the coming months, the shortage of pilots and crew may only get worse.

[extpwron]

Perhaps the surplus crews should go to Chivenor.

Chivenor, RAF ¦ This is North Devon (http://www.thisisnorthdevon.co.uk/news/RAF-assurances-helicopter-safety-cover/article-843007-detail/article.html)

[rock34]

I heard all the surplus ground branches will go Typhoon once they've finished a tour on the Reaper and realised that the flying lark is easy! :ok:

[Mr Grim]

Why would you want to go to a REMF job like Typhoon when you have been on the sharp end with Puma/Reaper (or chef etc)? :}

[chinook240]

With up to 28 Merlins bound for Afghanistan in the coming months, the shortage of pilots and crew may only get worse.

Great we can rest easy now!

[StopStart]

You're all wrong. They're coming to Lyneham to clean up after it closes. Which is tomorrow.

[exscribbler]

So are you, SS; they're being re-roled to SHAR.

http://email.royalnavy.mod.uk/imgproxy/img/805141596/FLY%20NAVY%20100.pjpeg

[StopStart]

Serve em right I suppose. Hope they enjoy Hermes.

[liedtoagain]

Going typhoon will surely mean true 1 in 4 harmony at last. 1 deployment every 4 years....... anyone......:E

[AHQHI656SQN]

Door Slider, no room on Apache, we are fully manned :rolleyes:

[Could be the last?]

656 - I heard recently, that your big wigs were worried as you had dropped to 43% manning, and it wasn't recovering. Mind you if you don't give your NCA Pilots a decent FRI, then what do you expect............:8

[NutLoose]

But the one eyed missfit is rerobbing the Treasury to buy
these to supplement the Pumas

For Sale 14 Helicopters Westaland W30 WG-30 Super Lynx Manufacturer, Buyer, Supplier, Importer, Exporter, Manufacturers, Buyers, Suppliers, Importers & Exporters - ECPlaza (http://www.ecplaza.net/tradeleads/seller/5013422/for_sale_14_helicopters.html)

I heard it on good authority from the man looking for the main gate keys to let the workers in to resurface the roads and build a new swimming pool before they close Lynham..;)

He also said these were in the the running, but this scuppered it

"We are ready to deliver in any country only for serious buyers who have money and can make the advance payment "



MI-26T Heavy-lift Transport Helicopter Manufacturer, Buyer, Supplier, Importer, Exporter, Manufacturers, Buyers, Suppliers, Importers & Exporters - ECPlaza (http://www.ecplaza.net/tradeleads/seller/3820007/mi26t_heavylift_transport.html)

[AHQHI656SQN]

Could be, 43% eh? It is difficult to get a straight answer about how many pilots we should have. The party line is, we are fully manned. The reality is very different. :ugh:

[Jackonicko]

Stoppers,

Is that Hermes with a 'p'?

[Could be the last?]

I would have thought that all the surplus crews, Ps and Cmn, would go across to the '5' CH47 Flt? I know that's what they want, they told me..........

[TheWizard]

Surely that's where everyone wants to go? That's what they would tell you! :rolleyes:

[AYTCH]

I knew someone who had a bad case of Permes once :}

[Jackonicko]

I know! It's all that Rum, Bum and Raccy.

[High_Expect]

I can't believe you muppets are even allowing this poor attempt at fishing to continue....



Faster Funnier. FUNGUS! :ok:

[Cmn2644]

I heard the pilots are going chinook and its the crewmen who are be re-roled as Typhoon pilots !
Hurrah ... Typhoon will finally get some medals !

[ProfessionalStudent]

and its the crewmen who are be re-roled as Typhoon pilots !

Oh god, I thought the NCA pilot lobby had crawled back under their rock...:ugh:

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Bit confused here, I thought the whole reason Puma pilots were streamed rotary was because they were not clever enough for FJ so how could this daft idea actually work :confused:

[Bob Viking]

Pull the pin...
BV:E
(Hack)

[ProfessionalStudent]

SFFP

It is common knowledge around the SH Force that Puma pilots were all streamed FJ, but chose instead the life of tents and sand, muck and bullets, tea and medals. The crossover to Typhoons will be a breeze for them - ACOS Manning have confirmed this morning that all re-roled Puma pilots will go direct to Cby to complete a bespoke, shortened re-role course as befits their immense talent and ability (and 90 minute bladders). After all, nobody can wear their sleeves rolled up quite like a Puma mate...:E

[chopper2004]

This reminds me of an article in Feb or Mar 98 edition of Air Forces Monthly where a USMC Major tells of his transition from AH-1W to F/A-18 jockey as with many of his colleagues as there are opportunities for rotary wing crews to re train as fast jet crews for a limited number in the Corps

[charliegolf]

It is common knowledge around the SH Force that Puma pilots were all streamed FJ, but chose instead the life of tents and sand, muck and bullets, tea and medals.

Exactly as I recall the conversations.:ok:

CG

(All except Shy Torque of course, who is a sky god)

(Shy, the billing address is the same!)

[fact_attack]

"Puma Relic's" display team?

Like the BBMF, but probably older

[lsh]

Well, as Puma crew are the pick of the bunch I dont see a problem!
I guess it will take them time to get used to the backwards step in performance.
Tiger - Tiger!
lsh

[Gnd]

I hear they are all going green on the Wildcat, then of to AW in later life?

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

;)
I attended a briefing by an air officer last week and he stated that the Puma upgrade was going ahead as planned.

[spheroid]

I hear they are all going green on the Wildcat, then of to AW in later life?

Apart from the Grey Wildcat fleet..... or are you saying that all of the Wildcats will be painted green....... Doubt it somehow

[phoenix5]

how high was your air rank? i bet mine was higher

[fact_attack]

I had a meeting with The Queen, God and Elvis just this morning. They assured me that Puma 2 would be scrapped and that all the pilots would go Typhoon. My knowledge is far superior.

[Door Slider]

I heard this morning that the government has admitted to making a mistake. The decision is to scrap Flynx in favour of Puma 2.

[ShyTorque]

CG
All except Shy Torque of course, who is a sky god


That's the sort of thing I like to hear... a totally honest, un-prompted statement. :ok:

(Shy, the billing address is the same!)

I'm not so keen on that statement... :p

CG, thanks for the compliment. Out of all the crewmen I ever flew with you were..... sorry who are you again?

P.s. Only joking; a pleasure to fly with you - twenty plus years ago? LSH too.

P.p.s. Got any more sheep? ;)

[Gnd]

Apart from the Grey Wildcat fleet..... or are you saying that all of the Wildcats will be painted green....... Doubt it somehow Mr Roids,

No but it is no fun taking the p1ss out of the Navy, they have a sense of humour so I sort of forgot about the SCMR. Thanks for your enlightening and thoughtful interjection – of course the Puma mates would probably also be very welcome on the dark blue side too.

I said they were going green (as in Army) not aircraft colour, must have been a bit subtle for you and I will try to be a little less ambiguous next time.

[The Helpful Stacker]

fact_attack - Surely the ultimate font of knowledge in the military are the station/garrison/navy place where they park their boats cleaners? Ivor the cleaner at RAF Stafford always seemed to know what teams on TSW were deploying where and when just after the OC did.

[Green Flash]

Stacker

When it comes to founts of knowledge I'll see your cleaner and raise the BCU man!

[Ian Corrigible]

"What have the Romanians ever done for us..." :hmm:


Puma upgrade in Romania is stalled 'over fears for votes'
Times (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/engineering/article6361115.ece) 26th May

A plan to award Romania a £400 million contract to upgrade Royal Air Force helicopters has been delayed amid fears of a voter backlash.

Senior military officers have told The Times that the Government is holding up the contract to overhaul the RAF Pumas for political reasons.

The work on the 33 Puma transport helicopters is expected to be done in Romania by Eurocopter, but Labour MPs are worried about the reaction of voters amid rising unemployment in Britain. The Government is said to favour switching the £250 million to £400 million contract from Eurocopter to AgustaWestland, which would upgrade the Royal Navy's Sea Kings instead of the Pumas. The work would be done in Yeovil and could create hundreds of jobs.

However, this is not an option that the Armed Forces favour because the Pumas are better suited to “hot and high” work in Afghanistan. A senior military officer said: “The Puma decision is all about politics. We need the aircraft, but it is not politically acceptable to be sending work to Romania.”

Another source said that ministers had twice rejected the request to upgrade the Pumas. An MoD spokesman confirmed that the Puma upgrade had not been approved but declined to say why.

The military has repeatedly complained that it is critically short of helicopters in Afghanistan and the Government has considered leasing old Soviet helicopters to fill the gap.

Amicus, the union, has met defence ministers to press for the helicopter work to be done in the UK. Bernie Hamilton, the union's national organiser, said: “I have made representations to ministers and our view is that it would be better to upgrade the Sea Kings because there would be more UK work content. This contract would enable Westland to take on more people and would also be a benefit to Rolls-Royce, which makes the engine.”

It is understood that Lord Mandelson, the Business Secretary, has waded into the helicopter debate on Eurocopter's side. He is said to be pushing for the Puma upgrade even if it means doing it in Romania because he hopes to guarantee future British work from Airbus, the aircraft maker owned by the same company as Eurocopter.

The Pumas were designed and built by Aerospatiale of French in the 1960s and 1970s. Eurocopter, which was formed from Aerospatiale, will upgrade the Pumas if a contract is awarded.

They entered service in 1971 and many are now nearly 40 years old. The project will enable them to continue to operate until about 2022.

“The best option is for a new fleet but no money exists for that,” a defence source said.

EADS, which owns Eurocopter, said: “The MoD has asked for the best-value-for-money solution. All options will be examined.”

I/C

[cornish-stormrider]

Only the cash strapped muppets in whitehall would think of a 40 yr old (nearly) cab with so many lifex's as to keep it just about useable to be refurbed and given some new stickers instead of buying new helicopters.

question 1, is there a suitable aircraft to be purchased/licensed built in blighty?

question 2, why have we not bought said aircraft?

question 3, who the f*** is in charge down there? If I ran my engineering dept this way my factory would be available for 8 hours a week and we would make 6 items and rerole the line again...

[mick2088]

As for an alternative, the NH-90 is probably the only new one at this moment. The proposed AW149 would be suitable. I think the Puma upgrade will keep it in service until 2022, after which it (and the Sea King) will be replaced by the "Future Medium Lift Helicopter", whatever that'll end up being. Why we haven't bought anything else? Money. We have none.

I don't know about the accuracy of that article. If it refers to modifications being undertaken in Romania, there is only the Brasov-based Eurocopter Romania, the joint venture between Eurocopter and IAR Brasov that modifies Pumas for the civvie market. A number of websites are advertising at this very moment for a logistics manager to liase between Eurocopter UK and Eurocopter at Marignane; not Brasov however.

[Tiger16]

I have a radical idea, which would:

a) give the MOD a much-needed, hot-and-high capable medium SH capability in Helmand, and

b) support AgustaWestland in Yeovil.

It is (wait for it) - buy some spangly new AW149s!
Crazy, I know...

[Yeoman_dai]

Sea King is more Merlin sized... by base statistics, anyway, while the Puma is slightly smaller.

Why not just get more Merlins to replace the Sea Kings, and get some of those lovely NH90's to replace Puma, as again they are about the same size?

Only with greater capability
And would support jobs in the UK
And finally give the Sea King/Puma fleet a chance to die, as opposed to being used until the end of all time.

I swear, the way the government's work things, the RAF and RN crews trying to deal with the apocalypse will be in several thousand year old Sea Kings.... Mod 123887438

[mick2088]

I have a radical idea, which would:

a) give the MOD a much-needed, hot-and-high capable medium SH capability in Helmand, and

b) support AgustaWestland in Yeovil.

It is (wait for it) - buy some spangly new AW149s!
Crazy, I know...

Probably makes more sense than just supporting AgustaWestland via the Lynx Wildcat.

[Ron Fenest]

It makes sense in terms of cost and time to let Eurocopter get on with it, if this means Romania then so be it.

What many people are not aware of is that EC have just finished upgrading 22 French Air Force Pumas to Mk2 standard and are offering to continue the upgrade line to us.

In financial terms this means that there will be hardly any NRE as everything has already been done before, it means better support for the fleet from EC as they have commonality within type.

Or of course there is the other option..start from scratch with a Thales cockpit and get AW to do the work adding gazillions to the bill.

[Evalu8ter]

"In financial terms this means that there will be hardly any NRE"

Some bloody hope - since when did we EVER order anything off the shelf? The fact that we will (rightly) insist on UK Comms/DAS etc will create a sufficient delta for EC to justify a nice fat wedge of NRE (and a profit margin on it..)

I have sympathy with the AW employee in the article. I would do the same if it were my job threatened and with thinly-disguised protectionism rife at the moment (VH-71 anyone?) the call for a UK spend is a very populist sentiment. The truly sad thing is that AW don't make an aircraft that we want within an acceptable Cost/Performance envelope. They must stop hawking the Merlin as their solution for every requirement - it isn't, nowhere close. AW149 doesn't seem a bad cab, but with limited numbers on order the unit cost will be eye-watering (though probably better VFM than AAC "Tame Dog").

If we really want to invest in RW, appease AW and provide some genuine capability uplift then we need AW to build us 20-30 CH47Fs (as they are for the Italian Army) and negotiate an innovative finance deal for us to afford AW149 in meaningful quantities.

So, in reality, as we're broke, we'll end up with warmed-over Sea Kings / Pumas and (yet) another iteration of the Merlin.....

[Tiger16]

Could not agree with Evalu8er more. Make this man CAS forthwith!

[flipster]

A slight aside gents,

Looking at a number of past Puma accident reports, most of them seem to keep saying

"Fit an anticipator" as it seems the ac is not best placed with low-power settings on the collective.

Does the Puma yet have such an anticipator and, if not, will Puma 2 need one?

[Evalu8ter]

Tiger 16,
Not a FJ pilot, therefore I lack the mental capacity to go higher than 2-star..

...and a distinct lack of career to get anywhere close to that!

Puma 2 will re-engine the aircraft (if it happens) with the venerable Makilas, including anticipators.

[PlasticCabDriver]

flipster,

Puma - no anticipator.
Puma 2 - yes, design fits Makila 1A1, which has an anticipator.

The Government is said to favour switching the £250 million to £400 million contract from Eurocopter to AgustaWestland, which would upgrade the Royal Navy's Sea Kings instead of the Pumas. The work would be done in Yeovil and could create hundreds of jobs.


Please, NO!!!!! The Sea King Mk6s were ruled out a long time ago for good reasons. It has been a while since I had much to do with this programme, but the Puma 2 design must be pretty mature by now. The EC upgrade-a-Puma scheme has already been done, for a number of different customers, it is as "off the shelf" as you could reasonably get. Similarly, the Thales comms/avionics fit is already in existence on at least 2 platforms, and Thales and EC have been working together since the very beginning to ensure the two halves of the project integrate together and avoid the sort of problems that beset the Chinook mk3. Qinetiq were onboard from the start so they could accurately focus their certification efforts where it was really needed, and not waste time duplicating work that has already been done by the manufacturer as part of its certification process, with the aim of saving money, and in this case more importantly, time.

As Ron Fenest put it so succintly:

It makes sense in terms of cost and time to let Eurocopter get on with it,

EC could have got on with this a couple of years ago, but the glacial progress of procurement has seen this go right, then right, then right again, with still no signs of stopping. Had the decision been made (what, someone actually make a decision?) then the RAF would by now be the proud owners of their first Puma HC2s. To cancel the lot and start over again with AW and refurbed Sea King Mk 6 is just unthinkable.

[mick2088]

According to the MoD's blog today, they are still going with a Sea King upgrade after which, along with the Puma HC2, it'll be replaced by this Future Medium Lift Helicopter thingy.

It is probably the best solution now, but there was an opportunity to help fund the AW149 when it was announced a few years back as AgustaWestland was supposed to approach the UK about contributing some money towards it. I think at that stage the MoD was going to lease some helicopters to replace the Puma and Sea King with bids already put in before they then decided instead to buy the Danish Merlins and go for the Puma upgrade.

[flipster]

Evalu8r and PCD

Thanks

So, still no anticipator at present - any idea why not? Does the ac still need it?

flip

[Evalu8ter]

Air Police,
In some respects the heads of the RAF and RN would agree with you. Afghanistan is inconvenient as it doesn't fit in with the doctrine used to justify the vanity projects (Typhoon, JSF, CVF, T45 and Astute). Afghanistan is a campaign dominated by "cinderella organisations", ie, dismounted infantry, RW and AT. Much better for the RN/RAF (and BAES) if we were to withdraw into a technologically dependant isolation allowing us to continue to procure weapons systems for the "future war" that we want to pretend we'll fight rather than "waste" money on unglamourous RW/AT/ISTAR assets for the war we actually are fighting.1/T2

As an aside, I see from Janes that the USAF is to embark on a policy of "rebalancing" away from Tactical FJs to ISTAR/UCAV/AT forces, and in doing so will retire over 250 F15/16s and A10s. With the current CAS' mindset to mimic the USAF (well, except for long range bombers, dedicated SEAD, LO tech and a shed load of strat/tac AT/AAR....) I wonder if we'll follow along? Selling 100+ T1/T2 Typhoons to "rebalance" on C17/C130J/CH47 and Reaper would appear to be a good start...we could even re-role some Typhoon pilots to Puma Mk2!!

[andyy]

I'm surprised that the US is to retire A10s - ideal for curent ops I'd have thought. Still its the US Army that actually wants them & not the USAF.

[la grua]

Possible alternative to Puma2 could be the AS332L.You get the makila benefit thrown in.Suitable airframes are still working the north sea.Now being edged out by more modern versions , but only 30000 hrs or so on each of them!.Been done before,observe the Bell 212's of the AAC in Brunei and Belize. :ok:

[GPMG]

Airpolice,
which weapons systems do we produce which are the best in the world? It would be best to buy off the shelf rather than develop our own.

How could the MOD justify a 'Dad's Army' when begging for money from the coffers?

How could we train our forces to the same standards that they recieve from real combat? And how could we develop effective tactics by poncing about on Salisbury shouting 'Bang'?

[PlasticCabDriver]

flipster,

to fit anticipators to Puma would require a re-engine. The Turmo 3C4 is not retro-fittable(?) with anticipators. This has not happened because the Puma has been "going out of service soon" for the last 20 years, so it has never been seen to be cost effective to spend the money on new engines.

However, if it is to stag on until 2022, then current airworthiness standards etc mean it is no longer acceptable to continue with no anticipators. This is the main driver behind the "upgrade". It is not an upgrade at all, it is a life extension programme, indeed anything that smacks of upgrade for upgrades sake will be, if not already has been, ruthlessly scrutinised out. It is, if you like, just a happy coincidence that the 1A1s are more powerful, have better fuel consumption etc etc.

Only that which is absolutely necessary to allow this 38 year old ac to soldier on for another 13 years will be included in the Puma 2.

If it ever goes ahead of course.

[flipster]

PCD

Thanks - very helpful.

I might be interesting to ask your IPT if such risks have been fully addressed in the Puma safety case documents and what has been said!

Flip

[GPMG]

I think it would cost an insane amount of money to put the British war manufacturing machine back into service. It would take at least 20 years to get up to a realistic and 'current' level of design and consistency. And there would also be a distinct lack of designers or 'boffins'. Our schooling system no longer creates cutting edge engineers and designers, it churns out 'I know my rights' and baby making machines.
And even then we would still need to rely on foreign powers for the raw materials etc.

Bleak.....

[NURSE]

Have to agree with airpolice to a degree this govt has not only run down our armed forces but the Industries that supported them. It does worry me how dependant we are getting on other countries to supply our kit.
I see the reason the contract for Puma 2 has to go to Romania they are the current Puma experts and refurbished the SADF ones the RAF bought a few years ago. And Puma does need updating or are we just going to repeat the wessex saga all over again?
Quinetic appear to be doing a reasonable job with Chinook HC2.5 backdate and westland work well with Seaking. The other option maybe shelve Puma 2 and start low rate ordering of next generation chinook? RAF has always made it clear it wants more chinooks so why not phase the puma out slowly?
I wonder what the US is going to do with the VH71 airframes and could westland convert them to HC4's?

[mick2088]

I think upgrades of the existing Chinook fleet are being considered. However, if the UK ordered new CH-47F models, then it is more likely they would be built in Italy given that AgustaWestland will be putting a production line in place over there for a recent order by the Italian Army. AgustaWestland (Italy) has an agreement with Boeing to sell the F model to the UK if it wants it.

[barnstormer1968]

NURSE, check your PM's please.

[Hilife]

I think you will find the ICH-47F fuselage will be built at Ridley Park in Pennsylvania.

[ProfessionalStudent]

The other option maybe shelve Puma 2 and start low rate ordering of next generation chinook? RAF has always made it clear it wants more chinooks so why not phase the puma out slowly?

Because there is still a need for a Puma-sized airframe. Those in the know will know this...

[Tiger16]

Yes indeed. 'Tis regrettably easy to fall into the "bigger is always better" trap when it comes to SH!

[mick2088]

I think you will find the ICH-47F fuselage will be built at Ridley Park in Pennsylvania. True, but they will still be assembled and integrated in Italy. The agreement that AgustaWestland has with Boeing is to offer the (I)CH-47F to UK (in addition to Europe and Mediterranean countries). AgustaWestland might not want to set up a parallel assembly line in the UK as well if we bought those.

[Valiantone]

Sorry for a tad straying off topic here..

Now that the VH-71 contract has been put on stop, what future is there for the (9?) that have,have yet to be built and flown over the pond? Are they awaiting Congress or are they going to sit in a hanger?

Just a thought but surely they could be put to some use perhaps? well maybe.

V1

[XV277]

Which nation is it that we are "Deterring" that the US would not "Deter" if we had no nukes?


France! :ok::cool::E

[Squirrel 41]

Gents,

Think we need to be careful about the cancellation of the VH-71A Kestrel - it wasn't protectionism, it was that at $400m each (IIRC), it was simply insanely expensive and not even the US could justify this. However, I'm not sure that the KESTREL airframes had a rear ramp, so think that they would be f*ck all use to us, even if they didn't have US engines and systems.

S41

[NURSE]

yes caused by changes demanded by the Secret Service after the contract was signed.

[Ian Corrigible]

Nurse - Don't blame it all on the user. If you talk to those close to the program, the prime also did a pretty lousy job at managing the project.

Back on topic, the MoD has now denied the Times report:

Plans for Puma Improvements Continue
UK Ministry of Defence May 26

The Times has reported that the Government has delayed the £400m contract to upgrade the RAF's Puma helicopters for political reasons. Under current plans, the MOD intends to extend the service life of both the Puma Mk1 and Sea King Mk4 helicopters before they are replaced by the Future Medium Lift Helicopter which is currently in its concept phase.

We have worked closely with Eurocopter, the manufacturer of Puma, to carry out the Puma Life Extension Programme (LEP) Assessment Phase and, as planned, we expect to make our main investment decision on this project this summer.

The Puma LEP will address obsolescence and safety issues and enhance capability. Upgrades will include a digital cockpit, more powerful Makila engines and an up-rated tail rotor.

These modifications will also provide significantly increased performance in the high temperatures and altitudes that characterise deployments in Afghanistan, enabling its deployment to this theatre, if necessary and desirable, from about 2013.


I/C

[jim2673]

Hmmmm and how much to upgrade SK4 fleet with twin power turbine Gnomes and drive thru a life extension programme. £600 Mill to sort the SK4 fleet and also generate a sizeable SK6C fleet of 20 plus A/C.

No need to upgrade PUMA, a 60 A/C fleet of SK4/6C would cover any capability gap. Lots of read across...Carson MRB, AW 5BTR, for increased hot and high capability.

British jobs for british workers.....PUMA upgrade's dead in the water IMHO :ok:

[mick2088]

Aviation Week claimed on Thursday that a contract for the Puma upgrade had already been awarded. £250 million was the figure they gave. Were they jumping the gun as nothing official has been announced?

Eurocopter Lands Puma Life Extension Program | AVIATION WEEK (http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=mro&id=news/puma5289.xml&headline=Eurocopter%20Lands%20Puma%20Life%20Extension%20Prog ram)

[Hilife]

Some logic in MoD procurement! Whatever next?

U.K. May Drop Helo Life Extension, Advance Medium-Lift Craft - Defense News (http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4119305&c=EUR&s=AIR)

[mick2088]

AW149 anyone?