Moscow Air Traffic Control Center

[REAL ATC]

Hello guys,

I'd like you to present how is ATC works in Russia.
Here is my personal self maded video from my own audio fragment on SVO Approach control and pictures taken from Airliners.net.
There is only one picture is my personal - me at work.

What do you think? ;)

YouTube - Moscow Air Trafic Control Center (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw_a7OJwH28)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw_a7OJwH28

[SINGAPURCANAC]

Equipment-I expected better,but than I remembered that it was Russia.
Meters instead of feet,nothing strange:E
It seems that it is allowed to speak Russian and English on frequency.It might not be safe.But if your authorities allows it than OK.
anyhow I am happy to see someone with quite different background and hope you will enjoy those pages.
i would like to ask you few questions:
-how complicated is to become APP APS ATCO in Moscow area
-if it is not secret what is the salary for qualified APP APS ATCO working on major Russian airport
-Have you faced staff shortage,like others
-how do you survive thousands of Russians crew each day? Please give me advice
welcome to pprune,brother :ok:

[Waterfall]

how do you survive thousands of Russians crew each day? Please give me advice
welcome to pprune,brother:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

[ron83]

welcome,
and one of the crew even told him that it was the best ATC in moscow area they experienced, well done :D
Привет от соседей:ok:

as for salary I think it shouldn't be a secret.since they even post it on their web-site in roubles hovewer:}

[REAL ATC]

Hello everybody,

nice to be here!
I'll go step-by-step with the answers.

1) Equipment. MATCC is one of the worst ATC equipped center in Russia i think. We still use TERCAS system build in 1980.
2) We using both language - Russian and English for communication. Depends on pilot - if it's Russian he probably try to speak Russian. We just comply. No problem.
3) How to become an ATC in Moscow. 4 years in Flying Academy, then testing on the exact position for the 7 - 8 month.
4) Staff shortage. We have extremely shortage of stuff :( No young blood.
5) How to Survive. No survive. It's just a job. ;)
5) Salary. It is around $3000 a month.

@ron83:
Привет соседям!
Откуда ты, коллега?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<4 years in Flying Academy, then testing on the exact position for the 7 - 8 month.>>

Shades of the old and most excellent UK system. Now they whack the kids through in a few weeks.. or it seems that way.

[REAL ATC]

It seems to me that Russian CAA going same way. It's f****g cheeper for the System to involve a new ATC into this profession.

[ron83]

Shades of the old and most excellent UK system. Now they whack the kids through in a few weeks.. or it seems that way. Being from that new system just can't leave it like that:}
But what's wrong with new system? A lot of atco's passed it successfully and still safely doing their job, so why spend 4-5 years listening a lot of rubbish which is not directly connected to the job if direct training could be done in 2 years:ok:
Actually the longer it takes, the more shortage you can experience,since it will take heck of a time till you get new atco:rolleyes:

П.с. я тебе приват смс написал

[doc_exe]

a ne malovato 3000$ dlea Podhoda Moskvy?

Privet s Moldovy ;)

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Please next provide a VNO, arrival from Gagarin to the terminal.

It is a big difference, as VNO is even more overloaded.

Spent many years in Moscow, SVO,initially. Great place to work, but for a western pilot, in western equipment very hard.

I loved it.

Many thanks for the reminder.

I made a AV presentation for our guys using photos, and the very precise ATC levels, RP, heights, and frequencies. Always welcomed by the new boys.


What are the chance of a visit to the ATCC, when next in Moscow. PM if you wish to avoid the rush..........



Glf

[Dumbledor]

From a pilot's viewpoint when flying in Russia with imperial altimeters, I think the main issue is the workload issue in climb and descent. It seems that the sectors are not very deep, so you cross them very often in the climb or descent. As you hear in the video, a climb or desc clearance is given with often a freq change at the same time. The metric level has to be converted and confirmed by both crew before checking in with the next sector.

Reporting a passing level is tricky!

To get a continuous climb or descent it is useful to call approaching the level around 1000ft before. Then you will probably get transferred to another freq, check in and get further climb/descent. I got that tip from an Aeroflot Escort Navigator (Alexander) but it's useful to keep a modest rate of climb/descent.

Moscow App seem to be very helpful with weather avoidance. They have advised us of the position of CB's in the past and asked if we would like a heading change. This is before we had time to ask ourselves. :ok:

In the UK, if I am not very much mistaken, ATCO's generally filter out the weather from their displays. The info about CB's is sometimes passed to us but this is 'secondhand' based on pilot reports and/or their requests for Wx avoidance.

Good Video! :)

[Navigator33]

Ah excellent you're the guy I first thought was an American (or British) until you switched to fluent Russian. Good times flying in and out of SVO.

Have to agree with the previous poster though. Would be nice if Moscow atc could rearrange the sectors with a bit more vertical spacing. The westbound SID's from SVO rwy 25 can be a bitch with all the turning, talking and switching (especially if you're not allowed to fly them in LNAV)

[Sideshow_90]

Dumbledor
Do you have to convert every time!? Do modern planes not come equipped to convert it? I never really thought about having to convert what the altimeter said.

[airman13]

maybe the only one person in russian approach, speaking such a nice english......

[Navigator33]

Sideshow 90 Yes you do. e.g. the 737 NG has a function to display the metric flightlevel but you till have to set feet in the MCP. The 737 EFIS and classic however do not have this function and you're still in for a whole lot of table checking. So do the MDs, DCs and so on.

[BizJetJockey]

Hey Real ATC...Vnukovo approach...any chance when being vectored, that the intercept angle onto finals isn't so big and left so late? It can get a bit tricky trying to stabilise when you are vectored through the localiser.

They also have a habit of changing the SID departure after takeoff. SID confirmed on the ground and then as soon as you switch frequencies they tell you to maintain runway heading instead...sometimes you are already following the SID when you get told this. Probably wiser to liaise with departure and confirm this info with the a/c before takeoff.

Just my thoughts!:ok:

[Itswindyout]

Always a surprise on departure......

As to the 110degree intercept.
No comment !!!! do not cross the ring road.

As to vertical sectors, use a reduced vertical speed, and reduce forward speed, it helps with the turns on departure too... pax not happy with the G loading.

[Dumbledor]

'Do you have to convert every time!? Do modern planes not come equipped to convert it? I never really thought about having to convert what the altimeter said.'

Some modern a/c may have the conversion function, but I believe most don't.

At vector of 90deg to the loc and then cleared ILS used to be standard and maybe still is. You then had to turn onto an intercept hdg on your own. Maybe the 'directors' (VKO or SVO Krug) are seeing too many a/c sail through the loc and reducing the intercept angle before clearing the a/c for approach.

With our kit we have to land QNH, which is our std SOP anyway. With apt elev over 300' (VKO 680ft?) if you land QFE you get a terrain warning from the EGPWS. We get QNH from QFE + TDZE/27. You can also ask for it from approach.

We convert metric Height to imperial Alt using the conversion on the Jepp approach plate, as most operators do I expect. We always need to be carefull with this!

D

[L337]

Do you have to convert every time!? Do modern planes not come equipped to convert it? I never really thought about having to convert what the altimeter said

We (744) have a metric button on the altimeter read out, but the altitude selector window is still in imperial. So even with this we have to keep a conversion table out and constantly cross-check.

[global707]

Real ATC

Any chance you can work Domo approach? Best English I have heard in the area. Been flying into MOW area for years and it still seems to be a hassle every time. Can anyone offer a lead on how the airpsace structure works. I hate having to nudge the controller that I am approaching a level but you seem to have to in order to get a continuous climb. Like other posts have said, on our craft, we are unable to fess up a passing altitude unless you have worked it out before hand!

Welcome to PPRUNE Real

Cheers
:D

[caucatc]

Question about your salary ,$3,000 a month , you mean 3,000 US dollars a month ????

[Dumbledor]

The passing level question, as G707 says is a problem. The passing 'height' call to VKO Krug (director?) for example after take off can be planned. I seem to remember that you switch over automatically after T/O to Krug, so you can call when passing the pre-planned height in meters corresponding to your altitude in feet! :ok:

The continuous climb solution is to call approaching the level 1000' to go, as demonstrated to us by our Russian navigator (en-route to Siberia!). It's best to keep the climb rate down to accommodate this, by climbing at a higher IAS.

A shallower descent than normal helps for the reasons above by keeping the ROD down. You may have to level off when you can't get a call in and then end up high. It happens a lot. :ugh:

[REAL ATC]

Hello there :)

Thanks for the warm words. Endeed.

Well. I don't work in VNO sectors. SVO only.

The structure of airspace is (approx.):
0-1500m - "Sheremet'yevo Krug".
1800-3600m - "Moscow-Approach" Lower airspace.
3900-12100m - "Moscow Approach" Upper airspace.
SeeJepp for details. Could have some changes now.

Other details could be seen here: Ìîñêîâñêèé öåíòð àâòîìàòèçèðîâàííîãî óïðàâëåíèÿ âîçäóøíûì äâèæåíèåì (http://www.atcm.ru) Try it.

[REAL ATC]

Yep.
3000$ a month

[BelArgUSA]

Privet - REAL ATC -
Nice salary there -
xxx
Compares favorably to an acquaintance, a captain of Mi-8 helicopter...
He works based near Murmansk. Salary is US$1000/mo with 20 yrs seniority.
His copilots gets about US$600, his flght engineers US$750...
And he considers that good pay.
His wife, a school teacher gets a salary of US$250/mo...
xxx
Is there a regional disparity in Russia...?
xxx
:)
Happy contrails

[REAL ATC]

USD 3000 is that ATC normally gets "to the hands". With all taxes it's around 4000 i think.

[caucatc]

Wow ,3,000 US dollars !!! Good pay ,you are a rich man !!!!
How many runway do you have in the airport and how many flights do you have one day in all ?

[REAL ATC]

Moscow ATC Center is placed close to VNO airport but we absolutely separated. We handle ACFT after departure (when passing 600 f) and till the 12100 meters for about 500 km away from Moscow and also arriving ACFT from 500 -700 km away from Moscow till the final approach fix. Then we give'em to the Towers of the airports they proceed. In the vicinity of Moscow there are 4 main civil airport: SVO, VNO, DMO and Bukovo. You may check any Jepp for details.
Each APT has normally 2 RW.

[REAL ATC]

Ok. I'll try to reply to all asking the questions.

First of all. The principals of the Russian airspace organisation ( :) ) Airspace is based on the main problem: all airspace in Russia is classified as the ICAO "A". But the problem is that 90% of it belongs to Military guys :( With all the sequences...

Second: We can't change anything untill the Government is ready to do that. All is in the hands of mr.Nerad'ko and his Co. All we can do is to wait for the better times...

[SINGAPURCANAC]

mr.Nerad'ko and his Co
Interesting ,interesting. The same guy and his company also works in my enviroment. :E

[tow-bar]

But I think Russian ATC has a lot of problems with English. I met a lot of your colleagues, nobody of them was very keen on language. How do you solve this problem?

Привет коллегам:O