Questionssss about the splash transcript of AWE1549

[caucatc]

Hello everyone
I am an approach ATC in Beijing ,China .I have read the transcript of AWE1549 ,and there are some questions about each part of ATC authority ,I will post the questions here and hope you can help me .
These are the questions about the LaGuardia Clearance:
1.ATC said :contact ground point seven ,is the ground frequency 1.7 ??
2.in the clearance ,it goes like : as filed maintain five thousand expect flight level three two zero one zero minutes after departure ,is that mean flight level 320 and expect maintain five thousand for about ten minutes ?And pilot readback that as :thirty ten ten minutes .
Thanks

[A Comfy Chair]

Contact Ground .7 is just the American way of telling you to contact ground but not giving you the whole ground frequency. Saves time and readbacks I suppose, especially when most traffic there are regulars and know the ground frequency (Especially as it is on the chart). The frequency would be xxx.7

The height requirement is just as it reads... the clearance is to maintain 5000, but expect clearance to 320 after 10 minutes. Stops the pilot sitting there wondering when he will get his climb clearance as it is a reasonably protracted delay at a low altitude.

[slatch]

Well close but no cigar.....most ground freqs in the USA are 121.something, so most towers give just the digits after 121. IE .7, .65, .9 etc For the airports with ground other than 121 they usually give the whole freq.

The altitude is lost comm information and in the past was for flight planning. Inital climb to 5000 if comms lost the aircraft could start a normal climb to cleared final altitude at the time stated in clearance to expect climb.

Back when fuel endurance was a big deal the altitude information in the clearance was to alert the pilot on a potential delay on their climb to filed altitude, or to alert them they were getting a different altitude then filed. Back when B707 and DC8 were the norm, any delay in the climb could cut endurance by 15 to 45 mininutes. The aircraft were very inifecient at lower altitude at high weights. Back then pilots would delay departure until they could expect an unrestricted climb.

[caucatc]

Thanks for the answers above ,and here are the questions about LG LC transcript.
1.What is Local Control ? It seems like tower controller.
2.ATC reported wind like 050 at 6 ,is that mean 050 degree 6 meters per second ??
3.A dialogue :
Pilot :tower winsconsin 3650 cleared to land
ATC :winsconsin 3650 31 wind 010 at 10 traffic will depart off 4
Pilot :31 cleared to land winsconsin 3650
The ATC never gave the landing clearance ,how did the pilot said cleared to land at first ?
4. ATC : cactus 2131 cleared to land 31 wind 101010 ,is that mean wind 101 at 010 ???
5.Similar question with number 4:
ATC : american 378 laguadia tower you are following an md80 on downwind of the landing clearance shortly you are number 3.
Pilot : cleared to land american 378.
In fact the ATC issued the landing clearance 2 minutes later.
6.ATC :northwest 528 reduce and square your base to final gonna to plow the interception real quick .
What does square your base mean ? Is that mean if runway is 36 ,he need to turn heading 270 for base ? If yes ,what kind of base they always made ,direct to the final ??
7.How does US ATC give sequence of the aircraft ? E.G. there are 5 aircrafts line up the final ,ATC issued the landing clearance to the first one ,is it right to say the 5th one (including the one has got the landing clearance) is number 4 to land ?

[A Comfy Chair]

I'm not surprised you are confused!

A lot of this is very confusing local jargon that is non-standard phraseology that confuses the hell out of everyone else operating there!

2. - You are close. Wind speed is in Knots, not M/S. So its 050 degrees at 6 knots.

These transcripts are a great example of how non-standard it all is, and why we should all use standard... so that its understood! I am a native English speaker having flown into the US many times, and I STILL often cannot understand what they are saying. I understand perfectly what is being said by Indonesian, Indian, Pakistani, Chinese and Filipino controllers, but not in the US. Says something really doesn't it.

The Square Base comment is just that often aircraft don't do a perfectly square base, and will come in on an angle, which reduces track miles. Squaring the base, as you say, basically means that you fly a "squarer" base (like a real base, as you say, 90 degrees off) to get the extra distance.

[caucatc]

A comfy chair
Thanks for your answers ,and it seems that reasonable I do not understand part of it ,haha .
Have you flied to China before ?

[A Comfy Chair]

I have flown over China a number of times, but Hong Kong is as close as I have got for landing.

I find Chinese controllers over the mainland very good, and easy to understand (although it is an enroute area so not too many strange things to say!)

Also big :ok: for the way the ATIS is done at Urumqi (and probably other places), having both a lady and a man doing the ATIS, each doing both the Chinese and English... That way if you can't understand the man one day, you can often understand the woman and vice versa. VERY clever.

[caucatc]

Questions following :
LG airport Cab Coordinator transcript:
1.2036:00 sequencer position said :ok b r
2036:21 cab coordinator said :mike whiskey .
what does those letters mean ?
LG airport ground control:
1.northwest337: ground northwest 337 gate 9 to push for cross bleed.
what does cross bleed mean?
2.cactus 1549 taxi F B hold short of E just got to hold you for about 3 minites for your in trail to charlotte. What does "for your in trail to charlotte " mean ?
3.cjc4656 :we channeled my first time who the heck do we call to get in there ? What does it mean ?.
4.ground control :eagle 4732 he's pushed down now taxi zulu alpha hold short of november .What does push down mean ? I only know push back.
5.AWI3838: winsconsin 3838 is cleared in . Cleared in what ?
Teterboro airport Local Control:
1.ATC:ok,thant you turn right on romeo taxi to jet direct this frequency .
Direct to this frequency ??
2.ATC:exe jet 697 teterboro tower runway 6 cleared to land goin to first .
Goin to first ??
3.ATC: exec jet 697 actually disregard that continue inbound for runway 6 runway 6 cleared to land and just let me know if you see anything .
If disregard continue inbound ,why is still cleared to land ?
4.ATC :exe jet 884 teterboro tower runway 6 cleared to land ah goin top first . Goin top first ???
5.ATC:alright i can't see you want to come upon that a little bit come up on the outside one little bit outside one yeah cool this one to (unintelligible) no that what .
What does ATC mean ??
New York TRACON
1.NY TRACON NOBBI (what is NOBBI)position :and eighty echo i will put on a 180 for wake . Is that mean he will let the aircraft reduce speed to 180 to make departure separation ?
2.NY TRACON LG Departure :we are stopped on departure runway four three sixties runway . What does runway four three sixties runway mean ?
Final question:
It seems that US always use typewriter to write a report ,why not use computer ?

[A Comfy Chair]

Some of the easier ones.

To be honest, if you are an ATC in China I wouldn't worry about learning what they are saying. You will never hear it! It is just local English being used... none of it is standard phraseology.

This is my best guess without reading the transcript.

LG Airport Ground Control
1) Crossbleed means a crossbleed start of the engines. Its where the pilots will need to increase thrust above idle thrust on one engine in order to start the other one. Some airports have requirements to be pointed away from other aircraft, or have a safety car in position.

2) He means in trail separation. IE he is being delayed on the ground slightly in order to make sure he has separation on the same route once airborne. Charlotte is a place.

4) Push Back is the correct phrase, but I think he is saying that he has pushed back along a taxiway - Pushed down the taxiway. Just a colloquialism.

5) I don't know the context but I'd say that he had been cleared to the gate, so he has said that he is "Cleared in' (to the gate). Again... just a shortening.

Teterboro,

1) He means remain this frequency.

And in the US, you can be cleared to land even as number 6 on final! It is then the pilots responsibility to make sure that the runway is clear and safe for landing. Of course if ATC see something wrong, they will say go around.

[eastern wiseguy]

:mike whiskey .
what does those letters mean ?

Most likely these refer to the gentlemans name......that is to say his initials. The airforce in the UK require you to sign off with your initials.

[caucatc]

Thanks for your answers ,I know I may never hear those local English ,but this is one good change to learn the way they control the traffic ,anyhow US is a big country in aviation ,and this is another way to learn English also .:)

[ATCNetwork]

Maybe this might answer some questions. Controller explaining his actions/thoughts

There is a link at the bottom to the full transcript of Harten's testimony.

Controller Patrick Harten talks about flight 1549 - ATC Network - News Item (http://www.atc-network.com/NewsItem-29122-Controller-Patrick-Harten-talks-about-flight-1549.aspx)

[caucatc]

Thanks for the help,I think no matter the way they speak is standard or not ,the calm and confidence of the ATC is really deserve for us to learn !!:ok:

[wlatc]

Hey CAUCATC, I'm a retired FAA (USA) controller - Terminal and Enroute - who works as a contract ATC instructor in Puerto Rico (I'll bet you know just where that is, but I'm American, so I have a little trouble placing Beijing :)) I'd love it if you'd send me an e-mail ([email protected]) and we can chat about the similarities/differences between China and USA ATC.

[caucatc]

Hey Wlatc
I have send you an email.Nice to hear from you .:)