B747-400 drivers

[I'mbatman]

I'm pretty new here but had a quick question......I've noticed on some, not all, flights, after 4-5 hours it gets a bit difficult to take a large breath without getting a funny feeling(almost borderline wheez/winded) in my chest....if I take a real deep breath, I cough.....I've heard it may be due to the lack of moisture in the air but am not positive.

Has anyone else experienced this and if so, what countermeasures, if any are there?

Thanks
IB

PS...this has nothing to do with HK's air so no joking from this side.

[The Messiah]

Yes I do find that so as a countermeasure I..........don't take deep breaths.

[geh065]

Are you sitting in your seat properly and standing up often to stretch your legs? I can get this if I find myself slouching for a few hours, especially when I get lower and lower in the seat my knees are almost up against the screens!

[apparent wanderer]

I'm getting the same cough. My last two flights I've noticed it, but I get it as soon as I step on the plane, and the last one was from Anchorage, so nothing to do with Hong Kong pollution. I got to Hong Kong, and it went away within a few hours on the ground. Others have said the same thing, too.
There's something in the ducts...:yuk:

[Baywatcher]

Me too, will email

[crewsunite]

All CX aircraft have loads of human & other dust in Cockpit.
They are very badly cleaned.
Move effort should be made to employ the correct vaccumm. (powerfull) & cleaner at these tasks on a regular basis
:rolleyes:

[cyrex]

Just take a torch and shine it thru the cracks, especially the area where the thrust levers are... i swear theres ATLEAST an inch of dust collection in there... as well its not just in the cockit, i actually find myself sneezing and itchy-eyeing as well after sleeping in the crew bunk... must be the fact that they haven't washed those 'mattress' for....err...since the aircraft started revenue service?!?!?:yuk:

[GlueBall]

In any pressurized airplane, cabin air exchange rates are affected by the efficiency and by the number of operating packs [ACMs - Air Cycle Machines].

There is some fuel burn savings by operating less than 3 packs, but obviously at the expense of reduced fresh air volume. If the pax load is high, it's more comfortable to run all packs. :{

[Fr8t M8te]

as well its not just in the cockit, i actually find myself sneezing and itchy-eyeing as well after sleeping in the crew bunk.

There was a time when fresh sealed blankets were available every time out of HKG. Not anymore - the ones we pick up have probably been in use for days on end.

Is the level of sickness tied up with cleanliness levels on the jet? Those 'pre-pneumatic' toilets are a bit of a health risk too.

:yuk:

[4 driver]

Someone asked in a letter to Crew News (when those were allowed), how often the bunks were cleaned.
ENG replied that they had never been given a "deep cleaning" and would now do one.
That is probably a good sign of how often thorough cleaning is accomplished.
Put it in the tech log and it will have to get done!

[The Wraith]

I have also developed a persistent irritating cough which is exacerbated during and after a 400 flight... Also during the flight I find that during the latter hours I start to sneeze a lot and also get itchy eyes and nasal passage...
Cathay should perhaps spend some of their hard earned cash on properly cleaning their aircraft. In today's increasingly litigious environment it is only a matter of time before the health related lawsuits start to appear.
IMHO of course...
:*

[missingblade]

I commonly have allergic symptoms on the airbus after 8 or so hours on board. Its is definately dust and other particles in combination with dry air. If you've ever spend time in a plane with cockpit humidification ( yes it is a Boeing and Bus manufacturer option ) you would immediately notice the difference.

My solution is to carry anti histamines and have one when starting to feel iffy. Engineering should clean more often - I often wonder if the air filter systems on these jets get cleaned as they should......

[404 Titan]

missingblade

Just a word of caution regarding anti-histamines. Most cause drowsiness and would render you medically unfit to fly. I too suffer allergic reactions from the dirty cockpits and dry air and got my doctor to prescribe an anti-histamine that doesn’t cause drowsiness and is approved for pilots by the aviation medical department.

[spannersatcx]

Engineering should clean more often
Maybe because it's not an Engineering function:eek:
That's not a get out, but a fact, in this day and age of budgets and costs it was deemed a few (or more) years back when we had to save 5% a year for 3 years, the question was raised why is cleaning being billed to Engineering? Just like plastic waste bags were! So it was removed as an Engineering function/cost. Who is now resonsible for it not sure, airports maybe.

Most outports that have cleaning contracts have fairly low paid people operating a vacuum cleaner, on average from what I have seen they may spend upto a minute in the flt deck. Not all of that will be actually cleaning, people in the way (tight turnaround times) etc.

if the air filter systems on these jets get cleaned as they should...... All filters will be replaced at specified intervals, maybe every A check or x amount of hrs/days or when there's a failure whichever comes first.

Put it in the tech log and it will have to get done! Or ADD'd most likely.:(

[SAD]

Take recirc fans off for 10 mor 15 minutes every hour forcing packs to HI FLOW that helps. New fresh air!!!!!!!!! United used to fly around like that all the time but costs fuel.............

[missingblade]

404 - I am generally drowsy when I fly anyway :}:} - of course I am aware of the approved anti histamines.

Spanners - It seems then that nobody cleans it if its not an engineering function - I certainly have never seen any cleaners in the air con ducting or recirc fan housings.......I figure it will take more than just an occasional filter change.

[Harbour Dweller]

spannersatcx,

Maybe because it's not an Engineering function


Most outports that have cleaning contracts have fairly low paid people operating a vacuum cleaner, on average from what I have seen they may spend upto a minute in the flt deck.

This is exactly why it should be an engineering function.

How can you give the flightdeck a full deep clean when these vacuum operators are probably instructed not to touch anything.

[VR-HFX]

Perhaps it should be allocated to the staff budget.

I know 4-5 mates who are currently off flying with the dreaded cough. I would add they are not all on the 400 so it is systemic to the whole fleet.

Penny-wise pound-foolish again.

[NWT]

Next thing the flight crew will want the engineers to clear up their old crisp packets, water bottles, newspapers etc....

[VR-HFX]

NWT

While you're at it...don't forget the snakes and ladders sets:E

[SeldomFixit]

I do know some of the ground staff carry paintbrushes and clean the pedestals and instruments as much as possible. I agree that the cleaners have probably been warned off the use of a vacuum in the flight deck however.

[perthtrained]

'one pound per person per minute'. Its all changed!!!. The 400 goes low flow all packs in cruise. Those experiencing problems should see if 'Hi Flow' helps!!

[perthtrained]

Nwt
Another intelligent response!!! Provide a vacuum for our pre-flight like the one provided years ago.

[junior_man]

It is not dirt or dust but Ozone. Higher latitudes in winter you will be in it. Pax planes normally have ozone scrubbers or something that deals with it.I doubt the freighter does.
In previous life we used to have to fly lower altitudes transcon in US with 737 because it didn't have any system to remove Ozone.

From one of the manufacturers of the scrubbers:

http://www.catalysts.basf.com/Main/environmental/stationary_sources/indoor_air_quality/ozone_catalysts

[HeavyWrenchFlyer]

The air at high altitude contains significant levels of ozone. If left unchecked, atmospheric ozone enters aircraft through air conditioning ducts. Ozone exposure is known to cause adverse health effects: Some symptoms attributed to "jet lag" or "air sickness" may actually be caused by ozone. Persons exposed to ozone can experience headaches, fatigue, shortness of breath, chest pains, coughing, and irritation of the eyes, nose or throat.

Now we need to find a cheap way of measuring the Ozone level in flight and if it's higher than safe levels you have likely found the cause for the symptoms.

The ducts and fan impellers' immediate areas do get a large amount of dust buildup which are only cleanable by mx after removing ducts and fans. It seems like a perfect place for bacteria and virus to collect and I've personally had presistent cough and allergy like sysmptoms after replacing these ducts and fans, until I started wearing full face respirator masks. I can guarantee you 100% that there's no maintenace interval program to clean these areas unless they happen to be removed at heavy check for some other reason. These areas are not easy to keep clean requiring disassembly of systems and so it's a design flaw and you have to remember this aircraft was designed in the 80's and there's all kinds of design areas in which it lags way behind when you compare it to today's designs for the same.