Surveillance Australia - Pay/Bonuses !!!

[Shark Slayer]

Can anyone confirm this, heard it yesterday.

Pay and retention bonuses for SAPL Pilots !

C&T

Base salary - $100,000 increasing 2% per year(to 10 years) plus CPI.
Supervisory Captains 10%, C&T 25%
Retention Bonus - $100,000 per year for next 3 years.

Line Captains

Base salary as above.
Retention bonus - $50,000 for year 1 & 2, $100,000 if you stay for year 3.

FO

Base salary - $60,000 with increase as per captains
Retention bonus - $30,000 for year 1 & 2, $60,000 if you stay for year 3.

Fly in Fly Out available for all Captains and BME FO however later required to FIFO from PER. Don't know exact terms of FIFO but I think it costs you half your bonus to fund it. If you live in BME, DRW, CNS then you get the lot.

$150,000 for a line Dash Skipper,that would be worth a look!

Don't think you need to be Rated/Endorsed on Dash but it would help.

[RENURPP]

Could be. This is copied from their website http://www.bfound.net/detail.aspx?jobId=57701&CoId=267&rq=1

The Company offers an excellent remuneration package with base salary commencing at $100,000 for Captains and $60,000 for First Officers, remote area Location Allowances and an Annual Performance Bonus which is linked to Company contract performance.


Essential Selection Criteria
Be at least 18 years old.
Be an Australian, UK, Canadian, New Zealand or South African citizen.
Capable of obtaining an Australian ATPL.
2 000 hours total flying experience.
1 000 hours fixed wing command.
100 hours night flying experience, of which at least 90 hours pilot in command.
100 hours fixed wing turbine experience
A multi-engine command instrument rating with a minimum of 5 renewals.
Be physically fit.
Hold a Class 1 Aviation Medical Certificate.
Be eligible for both an Aviation Security Identity Card (ASIC) and an Australian Customs Security Clearance. An extensive security package will be issued after a successful interview and must be completed at least four weeks before course commencement.

Desirable Selection Criteria
DHC-8 or similar endorsement.
Computer literacy.
Experience relevant to Surveillance Operations.
Search and Rescue experience.
500 hours pilot in command of large turbo prop supported by simulator training

[KRUSTY 34]

Well, Well, Well.

If those numbers are correct, then the penny has finally dropped. With coastwatch at least.

I'll be putting my resume' in. Unless of course my current employer would like to match?

[Lodown]

You do that Krusty. See if your GM cares!

http://www.iksv.org/film/i/2006/f/150/monty%20python%20and%20the%20holy%20grail.jpg

[Diver Dan]

This reflects the market for experienced turborop guys who don't have jets in their eyes.

Its not before time but still, its a lot of dough.

Sim C&Ter = 25% increment as well = 100 + 25 + 100 (bonus) = 225K for the next 3 years!

The guys who have been there some years must be pushing 250K!

[KRUSTY 34]

You're right there Lodown. probably glad to be rid of me.

Shouldn't that pic be on the other thread? Great scene though. An absolute crack up.

When told of the Chairman's remark, I did offer my chainsaw!

[zed583]

Yep thats what there paying. They hve just managed to entice three captains that left for Air Nuigini about a year ago back into the fold.
And not one of them would be on less than $170,000.00 a year. So six months after I leave them they are now paying their captains more than the Jet mob I moved off too. Bloody typical!!!. Oh well I guess i could return the GM's calls, It's starting to get interesting!!.

[wrongwayaround]

Lodown... Just wanted to let you know... that was freaking hilarious.... loved it.

:ok: WWA

[Metro man]

Is there a lesson for REX in here somewhere ? Looks like some people are quite happy on turboprops if the pay and conditions are good enough HELLO ;)

[Capt Wally]

Good money indeed. Look at the end of the day what's the attraction to jets???............nothing at all really. It's just that the jet job pays more, well maybe 'till we read the above. If SA are paying such amounts then it makes no difference at all what type you fly as long as it's modern & safe. The older you get in this business (flying) you tend to look more towards quality of life, lifestyle etc. The airlines aren't given the guys/gals much of that these days. There is life after flying but why wait 'till you retire, enjoy life now & let the silly notion of jet flying go for a better lifestyle. Young ones here pay no mind to what I'm saying, you have to experience the lack luster of it for yourselves!.
No honour/glamour in flying a jet these days, all button pushing & trying to stay awake on the long haul stuff!

CW:)

[Howard Hughes]

Is there a lesson for REX in here somewhere ?
Probably a bigger lesson for Qantas Link, especially considering they can provide ready made Dash-8 drivers...;)

[Under Dog]

Well said Capt Wally

But its the Low remuneration that the company you and I work for that makes people want to look outside.

Regards The Dog

[KRUSTY 34]

Very true H.H.

Does anyone know just how many Dash drivers SA are requireing?

If it's only a half dozen or so, then the brail readers that run the big regionals will probably ignore this most significant event.

However the operators with the guys and girls who fit the bill, can longer hide behind...."No matter what we pay, they will all still leave to fly a jet".

The first large regional who steps up to plate and matches SA's initiative will capture and hold this most critical end of the pilot market. At the same time their opposition will be decimated!

Quote:

He who hesitates is lost.

[Grivation]

If Rex paid that sort of money I'd be back from overseas in a flash - and I don't think I'd be alone.

[AerocatS2A]

Can anyone confirm this, heard it yesterday.

Pay and retention bonuses for SAPL Pilots !

C&T

Base salary - $100,000 increasing 2% per year(to 10 years) plus CPI.
Supervisory Captains 10%, C&T 25%
Retention Bonus - $100,000 per year for next 3 years.

Line Captains

Base salary as above.
Retention bonus - $50,000 for year 1 & 2, $100,000 if you stay for year 3.

FO

Base salary - $60,000 with increase as per captains
Retention bonus - $30,000 for year 1 & 2, $60,000 if you stay for year 3.

Fly in Fly Out available for all Captains and BME FO however later required to FIFO from PER. Don't know exact terms of FIFO but I think it costs you half your bonus to fund it. If you live in BME, DRW, CNS then you get the lot.

$150,000 for a line Dash Skipper,that would be worth a look!

Don't think you need to be Rated/Endorsed on Dash but it would help.

Base salaries are correct, endorsements not required for FOs, don't know about your figures for the retention bonus. As far as I know the details for FIFO and bonuses haven't been released yet, and those figures sound a bit TOO good to be true ;).

[Diver Dan]

I have it from the horses mouth (the GM) that it is all true.

FIFO has not been finalised but will be something like 10 ON/10 OFF.

SAPL have a 12 year 1 Billion dollar contract that needs pilots - they are very serios.

The question is - is this enough incentive ($ and FIFO) to pull enough Rex and Q' link boys in (they need about 15 more skippers apparently).

Will Rex and Q'link match them?

[Green gorilla]

Fifo is not all what its cracked up to be very bad if your coupled with somone.

[Capt Wally]

Tnxs 'dog'............that's how I see it. I guess it's like some guys towards women............it's all in the 'chase'................once yr there............what now !:E

CW:ok:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

It would seem to me to be a good idea to "uncouple" before attempting either "fi" or "fo"!

Dr :8

[DeafStar]

If this is true then QLink is as Eddie would say - "Boned"

That money is spot on what should be paid!

[boofta]

They must have had the contract threatened to cough up this
sort of money. Makes you wonder what the management bastards
were making before these pay rises. Rex and Eastern must be
doing some serious sums right now!

[go_soaring]

I doubt it..

..but then again, we can only hope!

[aileron_69]

If a C210 Pilot can make 75K a year then I dont see why a right seater in a dash cant!!

[turbinejunkie]

Does anyone know just how many Dash drivers SA are requireing?

If it's only a half dozen or so, then the brail readers that run the big regionals will probably ignore this most significant event.

Had an interview in Melbourne for a F/O slot only a few days ago and HR chick indicated 26 pilots required with a 50/50 split.

Essential Selection Criteria
Be at least 18 years old.
Be an Australian, UK, Canadian, New Zealand or South African citizen.
Capable of obtaining an Australian ATPL.
2 000 hours total flying experience.
1 000 hours fixed wing command.
100 hours night flying experience, of which at least 90 hours pilot in command.
100 hours fixed wing turbine experience
A multi-engine command instrument rating with a minimum of 5 renewals.
Be physically fit.
Hold a Class 1 Aviation Medical Certificate.
Be eligible for both an Aviation Security Identity Card (ASIC) and an Australian Customs Security Clearance. An extensive security package will be issued after a successful interview and must be completed at least four weeks before course commencement.

Desirable Selection Criteria
DHC-8 or similar endorsement.
Computer literacy.
Experience relevant to Surveillance Operations.
Search and Rescue experience.
500 hours pilot in command of large turbo prop supported by simulator training

Was a bit unimpressed only was interviewed for F/O slot - meet all the essential and desired criteria with exception of 500 hours PIC turbo prop with sim training. Told to expect 2 years to command. Politely mentioned I have an offer for a DEC (Metro) elsewhere.

Didn't think it would be that long and wondered how many DEC interviewees were reviewed in this round of interviews - a mini-flood perhaps with the increased kanga? It looked however, like they had no-shows on the day 'cause my interview, psych and sim were all completed in half a day when it was going to be a whole day affair. Did NOT see any other candidates for interview waiting around as is usual!:eek:

Can anyone comment further?

Cheers

TJ :ok:

P.S. Their T&C's offered as F/O. Don't have Capt's. Hope it helps!;)

Employment Information for First Officer DHC-8

We appreciate your interest in employment with Surveillance Australia Pty Ltd. The following information contains details of the position you have applied for and some of the conditions associated with employment by Surveillance Australia.

Surveillance Australia provides aerial surveillance services under a long-term contract to the Australian Customs Service through their Coastwatch division. It is the largest civil maritime surveillance operation of its kind in the world. The company operates a fleet of 10 DHC-8 200 and 300 series aircraft from bases in Australia: Cairns, Darwin, Broome and Horn Island. These aircraft and their crew patrol the Australian coastline 24 hours a day, 7 days a week in search of illegal activities. The Coastwatch operation is a vital component in Australia’s national security arrangements. Surveillance Australia expects a great deal from our aircrew and we are very proud of their achievements to date.

Position: First Officer DHC-8
Category of employment: Permanent
Probation period: 6 months
Likely Base: Darwin or Broome

I. Remuneration
DHC-8 First Officer Year 1 Pay AUD 60,000.00
(effective 1st December 2007)
Base Allowances Broome AUD 10,649.60
Darwin AUD 1,024.00
Variable Allowances e.g. Callout AUD 230.77
(Subject to change, vary based on personnel circumstances) e.g. Lack of facilities AUD 66.10
e.g. Breakfast AUD 20.07
e.g. Lunch AUD 22.48
e.g. Dinner AUD 38.71
and others Superannuation / Retirement Plan Employer’s Contribution 9%

Salary
10 x Years of Service Increments at 2% per year
CPI increase at 1st July each year
Superannuation/Retirement Plans
Employer funded superannuation contributions to retirement plans will be made in accordance with the relevant federal legislation and in addition to your base salary.

The company will make contributions into a complying fund of you choice. The fund must be able to accept funds via Electronic Funds Transfer. If you do not make an election, funds will be paid into the default Cobham Group Superannuation Fund.

Salary Sacrifice
Salary Sacrifice is a mechanism used in Australia to legally minimise an employee’s total taxable income. Subject to legislated limitations and our agreement, you may elect to have some of your before tax salary (Sacrificed Amount) paid to an approved third party.

Insurance
A competitive insurance and indemnity package is part of your employment with Surveillance Australia Pty Ltd. It contains Death Cover paid to the deceased’s estate and Loss of Licence Insurance.

II. Australian Workplace Agreement
A condition of employment is that you enter into an Australian Workplace Agreement (AWA) with the Company. An AWA is an alternative form of employment agreement to the General Aviation Award, against which it is tested by the Employment Advocate, to ensure that there is no disadvantage to the employee.

III. Training
Upon joining Surveillance Australia you will be required to undertake an intensive programme of both Coastwatch and Company training. There are a number of examinations, tests and checks. Surveillance Australia holds a CASA CAR 217 approval, operates in a demanding environment and, therefore, sets a high standard.

Course Usual Venue Approximate Duration
Company Induction (incl. CRM, FRMS, Emergency Procedures etc…..) Cairns 1 week
Coastwatch Course Cairns 1 week
Aircraft Technical Training incl. SOP’s Cairns 2 weeks
Aircraft Endorsement Training Syd/Melb 2 weeks
Line Training Base of appointment 7 weeks

Training Bond
The Company bonds an employee for DHC-8 training where required. The bond amount is, for a non-endorsed First Officer DHC-8, $25,000 pro rata over 3 years and for a First Officer DHC-8 upgrading to a command, $12,000 pro rata over 12 months. :ooh:

IV. Promotion
Surveillance Australia does not have a seniority system. Promotion is on merit.
Suitability for promotion is assessed by the Promotions Board which constitutes the Chief Pilot, Manager Flight Training and Standards, your Fleet Captain and Base Manager and, therefore, includes, not only your proficiency as a line pilot, but your conduct around the base and with your peers. The Company has a policy of promoting from within but is, from time to time, compelled to recruit laterally in order to maintain levels of experience in more senior positions.

V. Hours of Work / Rosters
As aircrew, you will be rostered for duty from Monday to Sunday inclusive on a flexible roster cycle including public holidays. Your hours of work will be averaged over a 12-month period. The span of hours may be worked at any time of the day.

Our roster is driven by Coastwatch requirements and we are required to accept roster changes up to 12 hours ahead of time. Therefore, rosters sometimes change at short notice, which can be disruptive to social and family lives. Rosters are provided a minimum of 7 days in advance and will be locked in for 7 days duration. :hmm:

Annual Leave
You are entitled to 42 calendar days of paid annual leave (inclusive of Saturdays, Sundays and Public holidays) for each year of service. Annual leave will accrue and be credited on a pro-rata basis in accordance with legislative requirements.

You are entitled to 8 days off in a 28 day period standing alone. The 28 day period will be nominated by us. This will not necessarily equate to 2 days off each week.

Extra duties
You will be expected to undertake additional tasks beyond your flying duties. After every flight, you will be required to rinse the aircraft with fresh water. Admin days are occasionally rostered to provide assistance to the Base Manager and the Senior Base Pilot.

There are other opportunities within the Company including training and checking, CRM and FRMS training, acting as a base Flight Safety Representative or Workplace Consultative Group member and so on. Some of these duties attract extra pay and others provide the opportunity to get away from the base, meet other staff in a social atmosphere and contribute to the way that the Company runs.

VI. Fatigue Risk Management System
Surveillance Australia aircrew operate under an exemption to the flight and duty rules laid down in CAO 48, called a Fatigue Risk Management System (FRMS). Our system takes account of the duty that you are about to perform and checks to ensure that you have adequate opportunity for rest in the last 7 days. It is reinforced by a computer algorithm, which calculates a fatigue index based upon the length of duty, the time of day and the cumulative work done over the last seven days. It also provides for education and training and has, as its core, a mutual responsibility of both the Company and the aircrew to manage fatigue risk. :suspect:

VIII. Further Conditions of Employment
Security Clearance
Your employment will be contingent on obtaining a Customs security clearance to Protected level. This paperwork for the Customs security clearance must be forwarded to us before we will enrol you in the online learning program for the licence conversion. The process requires you to complete the full security pack and forward to us before we arrange for you to visit Australia to sit the licence exams. The Company encourages you to be full and frank in your disclosure.

Further conditions of employment:
• Current Passport
• Australian Aviation Medical Examination Class 1
• Health Status Assessment conducted in Australia at the same time you visit
Australia for your licence conversion
• Australian Aviation Security Identification Card
• Acceptance of the Australian Workplace Agreement (AWA)
• Acceptance of the Training Bond Agreement (where applicable)
• Checked to Line

IX. Period of Notice
Notice of Termination by the Employer
If we terminate your employment as a permanent employee, we will give you three (3) months notice in writing.
The period of notice shall not apply in any of the circumstances under which the employment is automatically is brought to an end by force of the employment contract. :suspect::ooh:

Payment in lieu of the notice will be made if the appropriate notice period is not required to be worked. Employment may be terminated by us requiring you to work part of the required period of notice and by us making payment in lieu for the period of notice not worked.

Notice of Termination by the Employee
The notice of termination required to be given by you is the same as that required by us. If you fail to give notice, we have the right to withhold monies payable to you on termination equal to the ordinary time rate of pay for the period of notice not given.

X. Miscellaneous
All our bases are in remote locations. These can be expensive places to live and get away from. Unfortunately we are unable to offer ID travel.
Pilots can expect to spend up to 120 nights away from home each year, which may be disruptive to family life. Darwin based pilots do very few overnights.


P.P.S.

I also heard a rumour through TWU that by February 12 no new AWA's could be signed with Labor's planned interim legislation. Crystal ball gazing but can anyone confirm this hearsay? I am thinking it might be worthwhile delaying signing of AWA for said Metro Command but don't want to leave it too long and see the offer lapse.

Cheers again

TJ :ok:

[aero979]

TJ - Can I ask what aircraft you are on at the moment?

There is a lot more involved to the flying with SAPL than A to B carrying passengers. You might find a bit of time as an FO learning all the Coastwatch procedures would be very beneficial before a command slot. I would say a command opportunity will be less than 2 years.

[exmexican]

Good to see they're not offering DEC to every Tom, Dick and Harry with turbine time and a bad attitude! You go for that Metro job mate, and when the smaller cockpit has pared down your ego have another think.
Talk about look a gift horse in the mouth.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

exmexican,

Not sure exactly which aviation industry you think you are working in, why is it so offensive to you that Turbine Junkie will not jump at the first offer ?, or has expectations that go above your personal opinion ?.

Perhaps TJ is a gun pilot, good looking chap/chappette that can walk on water. If he/she has the minimums, why not aim high ?, with those hours many many many operators offer DEC.

Also can not see how you think TJ has a bad attitude.

I would certainly see DEC Metro as considerably more rewarding than the RH seat of a Dash 8.

IMHO LH seat of Metro to RH seat of Dash 8 is a huge step down, could be perceived as idiotic move in the current industry:).

[aero979]

This thread is about the pay/ bonuses right?

All confirmed, what a great time to be working for Surveillance!

[Diver Dan]

And thats the point surely.

With SAPL an FO = 60 + 30K pa and within 18 months or so you are on 100 + 50K. You may think a command on a Metro is a better gig but what are the pay and promotion prospects?

[exmexican]

LRT
I meant no particular harm to TJ, and, as I do not know his personal expectations , can hardly form an opinion on them. It is more a comment on the general expectations of the "gilded youth" of today.
Eg QF cadets moaning about doing it hard as a 3 day a week Metro FO on $55k in a capital city.
But best of luck to them for their increased opportunities, get while the gettings good! As long as they appreciate their situations, I'm happy.
If TJ is a gun pilot, walks on water and looks dapper in the cucumber suit, they will find command within 6 months a possibility. Let's see, start as FO now, command say Sept, ummmmm, salary earned by years end about $93k exclusive of allowances for o'nights etc. Next year $150k for 17-20 days work a month.Not bad coin for someone in a t'prop with not much command time, outside the airlines. I doubt a Metro job will pay as well. Hope you can see where I'm coming from.
Cheers

[KRUSTY 34]

exmexican.

Beat me to it. Obviously people have different expectations, but chr!st! That must be one hell of a Metro gig!

[northern.flyer]

LRT,

Is it because you ARE flying a Metro now or are you just sore that SAPL wont have you back? :E

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

NF,

Some truth in what you say, I have been flying a metro, I live in a capital city and am very happy about that.

Sore, I think not :).

And yes I know who you are too, how many pseudonyms is that now, four or five ?.

By the way I met your parents recently, they were great blokes.

[northern.flyer]

Enjoy Skippers!

And the sandwiches.:E

[aileron_69]

ouch, thats gotta hurt!!

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Would not be there unless I wanted to be :).

[knight kevlar]

Does any one know the interview format and the sim ride fo Cobham/Surveillance Australia?

[m-dot]

SAPL Interview;

You would want to come across and provide examples of when you have been;

1. Adaptable to change (frequent changes in all facets of the job everyday and will be ongoing with changes with new aircraft/equipment arriving),

2. Flexible (able to work around problems - not just come to a grinding halt),

3. Operating without a large amount of dedicated support (pre-flighting and topping up oils, rinsing the aircraft after flight, organising your own fuel, doing your own pre-flights, humping your own bags etc)

4. Remotely based for days away from home (sometimes up to 14 a month),

5. Able to communicate and get along with many different types of people (being on a hot mic for 4-5 days in a row can make even the most patient person get agitated sometimes).

and probably most important at the moment...

6. Willing to stay at SAPL/not interested in airlines (if you are then you'd better try to make them believe you aren't anyway. They have recently experienced a massive turnover of experienced pilots - hence the large money offers to compensate current pilots for bypassing the opportunity at an RPT lifestyle/relatively quick commands).

Good Luck to all going for it.

[40 Below]

This job suddenly starts to look more interesting!

It looks like positions in Darwin and Broome at the moment? Could anyone familiar with Broome give a quick feedback – Is it the sort of place you could move a family to for a few years (from NZ)? It looked pretty civilised on the net but as always info from anyone familiar with the place would be great. Obviously it’s a place far far away but other than that, whats it like ?

Are they taking DEC and does the bonus scheme continue past year 3?

Currently flying Convairs in NZ and thinking about a change.

Thanks
40 Below

[AerocatS2A]

They are taking DECs provided they have sufficient experience (many DECs have struggled in the past, many have failed.)

Broome is fine for the short term, it's quite a pleasant little town really, a good holiday destination. It's main problem is that it is so remote from anywhere else. E.g., it is a two day drive to the nearest capital city (Darwin.) If you like fishing and four-wheel-driving you'll be ok here. Other than that, it is bloody hot, doesn't get a lot of rain even in the wet season, has a nice beach and not much in the way of shopping. You will get good at buying off the internet.

The bonus is exactly as posted above. Stops after three years. No doubt the company will assess where the industry is at at that stage and decide whether further retention initiatives are required. Remember also that the bonus is subject to tax.

There is also a $10,000/year living allowance for Broome which is permanent.

[KRUSTY 34]

The problem with making a bonus temporary (even for 3 years) is that it will lose some of it's effect. Most people are looking for long term stability, especially as we get older (wife,kids, schools etc..) The demographic of the "experienced " pilot has advanced over the years, and it is these people that operators need to attract/retain. Stability, I would think should be a priority for business also!

Almost without exception we have all climbed the aviation ladder, moving from one job to another, building experience and in most cases increasing our pay packet along the way. There comes a time however when we look at a company and ask, will this enable me to provide a future for my family? If the answer is yes, done deal.

If the deal that you signed up for has the possibility of a 50% pay-cut after 3 years, then what sort of deal is that?

Beware of managers bearing gifts people.

[flyitboy]

Good comments 'krusty'..............as we get older we tend to look more at what a Co. offers apart from the renunmeration.
I believe that SAPL (or Co's like it) will always be struggling to secure pilots long term no matter what the type of carrot they offer.
There's a life after flying, keep that in mind when you settle down anywhere. Look at the whole picture, even tho the situation at present is bouyant we all know how aviation is much like an aerobatic ride, it's up, it's down, plan also for the turbulent times !:bored:

CW:)

[Diver Dan]

Even if the bonus were to stop after 3 years (very unlikely), you have made 200K over that time in bonus and then are on 115K guaranteed (CPI + 2%). The problem with that is............

It still seems like a good offer to me.

[KRUSTY 34]

Human nature Dan.

I know it sounds unbelievable, but try try taking a 50% pay-cut after 3 years. No matter how much you were on, It will cause a serious adjustment to one's lifestyle.

Stress, stress, stress.......

[Double Wasp]

How are these bonuses to be paid out? Will it be a lump sum at the end of each year or will it be spread out over a few months? How big of a chunk will go missing due to taxes?

[AerocatS2A]

A lump sum each year I think. If you don't want it taxed, put it into Super.

The tax will get squared up at tax time anyway, probably get a bit back.

[turbinejunkie]

exmexican, just wanted to clarify some of your assumptions about me. I am no cadet - have done 8 years in industry so far, from one end of Oz to the other like so many other GA warriors who trapse far and wide to scrape out a living. Have done a bit more than pax from A to B too by the way.

If having had a gutful of being taken advantage of by employers and having little choice but to take what's given all along, fight for what I should be entitled to under the Award in the past and so on, then fine, I sure do have a bad attitude! :)

Perhaps I have an ego too, but I wouldn't have thought so after this long. Life has a funny old way of knocking any BS out of you quick smart if that's how you think you should operate. :}

I just would have thought that DEC was a possibility. :{

And BTW, I agree with LRT's assessment. Command is better than F/O unless you're talking jet, long, big and very, very shiny. I'd rather have a bit less dough and have better T&C's and lifestyle (place to live) personally than sell my soul out to the next manager waving a fistful of dollars that can be pulled at any time. :suspect:

Beware children.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1825/909/1600/scan.jpg

regards to all,

TJ :ok:

[KRUSTY 34]

I think turbinejunkie has hit it on the head. It took me 9 long years in GA to land my first regional job, then another 6+ before an oportunity at command. And we were all grateful!

Thank chr!st those days are gone. good for the soul maybe, but the younguns' of today wont accept that crap. If they had to, then they would probably be doing something else.

What a minute? They are doing something else! QED

Hope you find what you're looking for TJ. Just be careful you don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

[turbinejunkie]

Krusty, that's sound advice. Will do.

We live in interesting days indeed.

TJ :ok:

[gav_20022002]

average hours, 800-900 a yr

8 days in 28 off

[bumpydays]

They are about to go to a 6/3 roster, when the full compliment of crew are up and running the annual hours will be less than 800 pa

[Shark Slayer]

I heard that the policy on FIFO to be announced today ????

They must be keen, another big ad in todays Aust detailing travelling roadshows across the country !!!!

[gypsypilotwife]

Hi All,

We are a family with young school-age boys considering coming home to Oz to try for a position with Surveillance Australia.

Any info appreciated on availablility of staff accommodation for the FIFO Captains? Also, can FIFO Captains only commute from certain (local) cities? Any confirmation on rosters for FIFO Captains?

Thanks to all who respond.

[bumpydays]

Saw this advertised you can get any info you want at one of these sessions or maybe use the details and contact them direct.

Friday Aust

Few flying jobs offer hands-on low level flying as part of a close knit small crew environment.
This role of national importance offers job security, lifestyle, competitive salaries, a range of
employment and working options whilst carrying out a task that makes a real difference.
Surveillance Australia’s fleet of highly modified Dash 8 aircraft is the front line of border
protection for Australia. Using leading edge surveillance technology we detect illegal activities
and national security threats under long term contract to the Australian Customs Service.
If you seek real training and fast merit based promotion as part of a highly professional team
supporting our country’s national security, Surveillance Australia wants to talk to you.
We will be recruiting throughout 2008. To show how this career could be your next big step,
Surveillance Australia will hold information sessions for prospective pilots in:
• Perth – Monday 25th February 2008
• Melbourne – Tuesday 26th February 2008
• Sydney – Wednesday 27th February 2008
• Brisbane – Thursday 28th February 2008
• Toowoomba – Friday 29th February 2008
• Adelaide – Monday 3rd March 2008
• Townsville – Wednesday 5th March 2008
• Cairns – Thursday 6th March 2008
• Darwin – Friday 7th March 2008
Full details of session times and locations are available from
www.surveillanceaustralia.com.au/pilots
Alternatively you can contact Jaya on 08 8154 5600
or email: [email protected]

[Capt Wally]

Will be interesting to see/hear the feedback from SA's roadshow over the country.


CW

[aero979]

Captains have the option of fly in fly out from brisbane, sydney, melbourne, adelaide and perth. If you wish to live in a rural area get yourself to one of these centres and SAPL will look after the rest.

Accomodation is provided while you are working. A daily allowance is also offered if you are not flying, eg on Stand by. Normal overnight allowances if overnighting in say Weipa.

FIFO will cost some of your bonus, a figure has not been decided upon yet. To save on the tax start salary sacrificing everything, this will bring your total income into a lower tax bracket and therefore less tax! Cars, computers, jepps etc are all available on this scheme.

The bonuses will be paid annually in a lump sum on December 31st.

any other questions pm me. Surveillance is a good place to be.

[Aussie]

Out of curiosity, are ya seeing any guys from jets going back to Props to fly for SA?

[Shark Slayer]

Yes !!!!!!!!!!

[Stationair8]

With the FIFO bit, how long are the tours and which bases?

[gas-chamber]

Plenty guys seeing the light now that turboprop salaries are getting real. Much better lifestyle, generally. I know three guys just gave up jet jobs for FIFO work.

[kalavo]

Anyone mind telling me where these jet jobs are that they're leaving? :)

[phydeaux]

Can some please answer Station 8 question cause I also would like to know. How long are the "tours" how long is the "off" time etc?:confused:

[flyitboy]

I believe the FIFO tours are 15 nights away (inc travel to base) & 13 nights home, 28 days cycle, that's all I am aware of.


F

[coolchange666]

Flyitboy is right... the cost of the FIFO tho is the entire retention bonus.. according to the roadshow... I dont work for SA. oh well.. but you still get the "performance" bonus which is $10K for captains or $6K fpr FO's.
cheers
C

[KRUSTY 34]

That's $10K per year for the first 2 years, then $20K for year 3! Add to that allowances that are competative with most of the airlines, ($10-$15K P/A) and the 9% super is paid on the total gross income.

All up the FIFO package for Captains is about $30K P/A gross better than the income for the most senior line captain at REX! Add to that you will be literally working only 6 months per year! Not bad.

Now if you choose to live in Cairns, Darwin or Broome, then add $40K + $40K + $80K! for years 1,2 and 3 respectively. And also, you can salary sacrifice up to $50K P/A into super Tax free!

I think S/A have set the benchmark. If the regional airlines do not step up to the plate, they will lose the very people that S/A are looking for in their operation. S/A used to pay similar to the regionals and their attrition rate went from 20% to 60%! If this wasn't bad enough, they have rightfully identified that even if they could physically train people fast enough, the level of candidate experience required for such an operation simply does not now exist. Except of course in ever decreasing numbers in the regionals!

[2dotsright]

I reckon that'd be great if a heap of REX and QL guys left for Darwin. I'm hangin out for a DEC job here (in MEL).....Aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh, living at home, and home nearly every night....Fantastic, on ya bikes fellas, I'll have your job here anytime, THANKS...
2dots

[KRUSTY 34]

Ohh 2 dots,

you're not gonna' get us to bite that easily.

Anyway, if you have the min quals for a command on the SAAB, I suggest you apply now, you'll have your command in 6 months!

See, cake and eat it! :ok:

[volare_737]

As a matter of interest. Whats it like to live and work in Darwin anyway ?

[xxgoldxx]

I hear its terrible.... suggest everyone withdraw applications so I look better and can find a place to rent !!!:hmm:

[phydeaux]

All the hype and now for almost a month NOTHING:{

[elcap]

This was mentioned before but never really answered...

After 3 years as a Capt or Fo your expected to take a substantial pay cut as the bonus system no longer exists? What happened to really rewarding the people who stay for a bit longer say 5 or 10 years?

El:ugh:

[KTM XCW 300]

Management probably want to keep the bonus system going because then the sallary and bonus combined are an awesome package, but it is not cast in stone, as it would be were they to just raise the sallary to the combined figures. After 3 years they will probably review the crewing situation which is highly unlikely to be any better (for employers) than it is now and they will have to come up with another insentive or sallary increase to keep people interested. I therefore think it is a fairly safe bet unless we have another SEP 11th or something.

[Contains Nuts]

Went to the information night a little while ago. They will review the location bonus system in the middle of each year for the 3 years ahead. The bonus is paid 31 Dec each year in full, or pro-rata for part year service.

Also FIFO is a 28 day cycle. And with FIFO no location bonus is paid.

They are looking for 60 pilots a year.

[RENURPP]

They are looking for 60 pilots a year.

Highly unlikely. I suspect they only have around 60 Pilots. I guess they could all leave or 50% could leave twice!

I think you may have missunderstood.

[kalavo]

Correct, they said there were only 130 employees total on the Surveillance Australia. About half were employed as pilots.

[Capt Wally]

This seems to have gone all quite, am wondering whether many have had further direct contact with SA?
They did say 60 pilots per year, then again they did say they where looking for pilots too, anybody got a gig as yet?



CW

[gypsypilotwife]

My husband I heard all Captain and FO spots are filled to the end of 2008?

Any confirmation?

[Capt Wally]

'gypsy' I think you maybe right there to some degree. I know of serveral pilots who applied after the fancy Oz wide road show with qualifications that would be suitable & none heard anything at all.


CW

[RENURPP]

I believe all the jobs were filled prior to the road show. They had organised them and invited people so they held them as planned.

[phydeaux]

Heard about a week ago they were still looking (via a very dodge grape vine):ugh:

[Capt Wally]

Well somebody/s must have got jobs 'cause going from all the hipe to zip means either they have what/whom they want or the whole thing is sus !
I hear it's very 'militant' there, maybe all the 'real' pilots wouldn't fit their mould!


CW

[Shark Slayer]

Cap Wally, Real Pilots ?

What do you mean Sir ?

[Fonz121]

Its been a while since this thread has been on the main stage but I was wondering if any guys who have been with SA over the last year or so could inform me on what they're like to work for?

I understand the bonuses are not being paid anymore. Im more interested in what day to day life is like? Rosters, days off etc. Seems like it would be a great job. Just wondering if the lifestyle matches. Am I right in saying that FIFO is off the cards?

[aussie027]

Hey Fonz,
Yes I confirmed directly with SA recruitment earlier this year that there is no more FIFO.
All pilots are expected to move and live in base city.:uhoh:

[beaver_rotate]

Hey Fonz.

Great cash, but a vicious Check and Failing system...

BR

[Mr. Hat]

Rex and Qlink and other "outfits" provide a fantastic service to Virgin Blue and Jetstar. They provide good training and experience to future jet pilot recruits. They think they are being clever by paying and treating pilots like dirt.

Message for all you big fish-in-small pond "managers": You are failing miserably! Making utter fools of yourselves and helping your opponents get a leg up.

I bet SACL don't lose 6 pilots in a month!

[bushy]

But it's scary. To get good money you have to go outside the JCURVE to outbackland.
Real Australians don't go there. That's only for Aboriginals, Mulga Bill and some migrants.

[mattyj]

Hmmm Mr Hat...any company in particular you were thinking of?

[BBN RADAR]

RE the advert on AFAP; does anyone have any idea how many pilots they are looking for? And what sort of experience/hours would one need to get a look in?

Cheers

[AerocatS2A]

Great cash, but a vicious Check and Failing system...I don't know, if the last four guys made it through, anyone can :ok::};).

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

How long would it take for that extra $11,000+ to be gobbled up in Broome cost of living (rent, groceries etc)?

FRQ CB

[The Green Goblin]

IMO the 11k should be included for the Darwin base too. It's almost as expensive as Broome and in some instances more if you want to live in town in a nice apartment.

[Mr. Hat]

mattyj nah noone in particular. I just love it when the so called managers complain about losing pilots but wont give an inch when it comes to conditions. Why would someone knowingly stay in a job thats going backwards?

Sounds like SA have their finger on the pulse. Good on em.

[KRUSTY 34]

July 2008 Mr. Hat.

REX lost 23 pilots that month alone! Management didn't bat an eyelid. :confused:

[Iknowboats]

Anyone have any info on the 3 month training? What, where, how long is the bond etc?

[Mr. Hat]

I don't doubt that one bit Krusty. Most I've seen haven't been the sharpest tools in the shed. Often a lot of them don't have any qualifications for their roles they just ended up there somehow.

It takes quite a lot of foresight to see the benefit in hiring the right people and retaining them. A bit like buying a quality stock. Its a 30 to 40 year investment.

Anyway it doesn't matter as we can all up and leave when the time is right:E

[Counter-rotation]

I don't doubt that one bit Krusty. Most I've seen haven't been the sharpest tools in the shed. Often a lot of them don't have any qualifications for their roles they just ended up there somehow.

Mr Hat,
Are you talking about Management, or the pilots they lost?!! :}

Ha ha, that was just a joke people!

(Yes I'm bored.......)

[Ejector]

They do have qualifications, They have a Uni degree to say they know bloody everything. Then there is HR, they are Gods......:ugh:

[NTChicky]

So can someone clarify for me

What are they paying for new pilots now? Are there still retention bonuses?

How many pilots are they looking for this time?

What is FIFO?

Thanks.

[AerocatS2A]

You're in Darwin NTChicky, head down to the base and have a chat to the SBP.

New FOs are on the same as old FOs, sixty something plus living allowance which varies depending on the base.

New pilots don't get the retention bonus but I think they still get the performance bonus, about $6000 or so.

I don't know how many they're hiring, maybe three? But then who knows how many will resign at the end of this year.

FIFO, fit in or f*** off.

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Four, actually.

FIFIO - Fly In, Fly Out. (2 wks on, 2 wks off; not done anymore.)

[Shark Slayer]

A vicious Check and Failing system...

How so?