C402b fuel system

[Cessna 402 Argentina]

Hello people. Can anyone help me with the fuel system of the cessna mentioned? I have some knowledge about it but not too much..
Thanks in advance...

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Have you read the Pilot's Operating Handbook? Pretty much everything you need to know is in there!

Dr :8

[ciscodiscocisco]

Como estas .......well what sort of probs are you having..... just a quick question if you are having difficulties check that you have fuel first....:ugh:

[PLovett]

Ditch the B model and get a C.

Cessna always take until the last model to get the details right. Why they ever thought the system they used on the 310 and early 402 models were acceptable, I do not know.:uhoh:

The POH will give you the fine detail but essentially, do not use the auxilliary tanks until you have burnt at least an hour out of the mains. The reason is that the engines draw more fuel than required from the tanks and return the excess to the main tank only. More than one person has got to top of climb in a 310 or early 402 and switched to the auxs only to wonder some time later why they are now seriously short on fuel.:eek:

The C model did away with the tip tanks and the auxs. Just a left and right tank to worry about.:ok:

I think the earlier system was probably designed by the "B Team" at Cessna.:}

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Perhaps a different explanation of what Plovett is talking about:

The C310 and C402 A and B have a fuel system that can allow pilots to vent fuel overboard accidently if they incorrectly manage their fuel burn.

Just think about one side of the aircraft, i.e. LH engine and tanks:

The fuel supplied to the engine is drawn from the fuel tank selected on the fuel taps ( either LH Mains, LH Auxilary and in some models of the aircraft, cross flow from the RH main ), roughly about two litres per minute is drawn from the selected tank.

Only about one litre per minute is consumed by the engine.

The other litre per minute is routed back directly to that engine main tank, i.e. LH main for the LH engine and RH main for the RH engine.

Irrespective of which tank you have selected , the LH engine will alway feed roughly one litre per minute back to the LH main tank ( and like wise for the RH side ).

So if you are flying an aircraft with the 118 litre aux tanks, when you select this tank, the engine will draw roughly 2 litres per minute from the Aux, burn one of those litres and route the other litre to the respective main tank.

So, if you burn 30 litres out of the main tank then select the 118 litre aux tank, the main tank will only be able to hold an additional 30 litres of the 59 ( 118 divided by 2 ) odd litres the engine will send its way, therefore, it will vent the remaining 29 odd litres overboard.

The Cross feed position only selects the opposite sides main tank.

So, if you have an engine failure inflight, say the RH engine, you will not be able to get the fuel from the RH aux fuel tank to the LH engine ( not technically correct, with a bit of rat cunning there is a way, but thats what the flight manual tells you and i do not think it my place to tell you something other than what the flight manual dictates ).

Enjoy, Cessna 310/402, delivering engineers to broken Chieftains all over the world, daily :).

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

"do not use the auxilliary tanks until you have burnt at least an hour out of the mains"

That never seemed an issue to me! Perhaps because when I did the endorsement I was told "do not use the auxilliary tanks until you have burnt at least an hour out of the mains"!!

I do, however, seem to recall a process we went through on pre-flight to check the function of the fuel pumps, but I can't tell you the details without recourse to the POH. Does suggest an overly complex system.

Flying an executive configured C402B around outback Qld remains one of the highlights of my flying career. I just loved the thing. Two flights only in the C402C did not evoke the same feelings, and my one and only flight in the plain old C402 (ex Bushies VH-BPX) is probably best not recalled. Never flew the C402A.

For one memorable flight in from Mt Isa I was accompanied by an armed security guard and load of gold bullion - entertained myself the whole trip contemplating whacking the guard with my Maglight, turfing him out at some remote strip, and heading for the Solomons!

Dr :8

PS: "Cessna 310/402, delivering engineers to broken Chieftains all over the world, daily" - yeah, we used to deliver technicians to broken ATMs all over Qld.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

One other issue i have had with the C402/C310 is hot starting.

The Left and Right Landing lights circuit breakers also power the ticker pumps ( these are located on the bottom side of the main fuel tank pods, turn the master on and you should hear them tick tick ticking ).

When priming a hot engine, i have had more sucess by opening the cct breaker during the start and priming the fuel system with the fuel pumps in the "HI" position.

Ensure the cct breakers are closed after start.

I have had little sucess using the "prime" function switch, surely someone else here would have some solid advice on how to best use the prime function.

[Brian Abraham]

Here is a 421B fuel diagram I got from the web some time ago. I suspect its not dissimilar to the 402. Sorry for the quality but may be enough to get an idea.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/babraham227/421fuelsystem.jpg

[Defenestrator]

and my one and only flight in the plain old C402 (ex Bushies VH-BPX) is probably best not recalled. Come on Doc, she wasn't that bad.

Have many, many hours flogging around the outback in BPX and her sister ship RDZ. Wonderful old beasties. Have to agree that they were both a bit rough around the edges though.

Dare I complicate the issue further by adding that some of the earlier models had slipper tanks in the wing lockers as well (VH-RDZ....RIP)!!

The C310/402 fuel system is a little involved but by no means difficult to manage. Just requires a little FORTHOUGHT and fuel management should ALWAYS have some of that.

D:ok:

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

RDZ RIP ???

What happened, flew her in YBMA a few years ago, looks terrible, is the fastest C402 i've flown, lowest TAS I saw was 192 kts ( hot and heavy with four body bags onboard ).

Not very many have the nacelle tank/s fitted.

[Defenestrator]

Different generation of RDZ LHRT. The original RDZ (c402) was a 402 straight model. Last I saw her she was looking very sad and sorry at Charters Towers in the late 90's early 00's. Think she ran out of airframe/spar life. Tough old plane thats for sure. I was one of many that cut their multi engine teeth with RDZ strapped to the back and a truckload of mail (or a Magistrate) just behind. Most fun you can have with your pants on. :}

I sure there are many reading this that will concur.

D:ok:

Edit: You've got me thinking now. Maybe it was BPX in the long grass at Charters Towers. I know one of the call signs got a new airframe some years ago. I'm sure someone will straighten me out.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

I thought that was RDZ, there is an old C402 in some Transport/SES yard in YMBA, that i believe was once VH-RDZ ( decommisioned many years ago ), then the C402A might have gotten the RDZ rego when it changed from the P2 rego ?.

[Jamair]

Flew RDZ at Isa coupla years back....heard it still flying the other day. Ugly, ratty and past its use by.:yuk:

[Defenestrator]

LHRT/Jamair,

RDZ and BPX were sister ships (ie consecutive production numbers) I think. Both born in '67. BPX first delivered to a company in PNG. Not sure about RDZ.

Flew RDZ (and BPX) for some time and remember that it was the mail plane mostly as it was nearing it's spar life and it could carry a little more gas if necessary. Pretty sure, but not positive, that it was 'retired' towards the turn of the century (fitting really:}) and was rebranded as an A model (only a slight improvement I'm told). That may be the one you you're thinking of.

Back to the thread for old mate.
Try http://www.esscoaircraft.com/Cessna_402B_POH_p/4808.htm and buy a copy for your own reference. A must have if you intend doing any flying in the machine. Although it will (at least should) come with it's own copy, having one of your own is not a bad idea.

D:ok:

[Peter Fanelli]

Loved the C421B fuel system.
What was it, 6 tanks, 8 pumps and 12 drains.
What's hard about that? :)

[compressor stall]

Young whipersnappers. Got most of my 400 series time on 401s! :}

[Capt Wally]

what about the early C400 series avionics?.............tuneable ADF's (now that was an art!) & that A/P......if you had the C400B (& it was serviceable) you where flying high class !:bored:

Great old planes, did us Aussies well for learning the real art of flying!:)

CW

[Stationair8]

PLovett, the Cessna C402A/B Fuel system is no worse than a lot of other aircraft fuel systems. Cessna's engineers designed it that way for a reason, there is plenty of good material published over the years on the design and and the reasoning on correct use.
Always interesting to watch people who been given a quickie endorsement on Cessna 300 or Cessna 400 series aircraft.
You state C402c is the only way to go, for starters how do you know how much fuel you actually on board unless you fill up the tanks? You really going to trust fuel gauges?

[Capt Fathom]

You state C402c is the only way to go, for starters how do you know how much fuel you actually on board unless you fill up the tanks?

If that's the start, let's here the rest Stationair8.

PS.. If I recall correctly, the bottom of the Fuel Nozzle Guard = 1000lbs!

[PLovett]

Stationair8

I happpen to be flying a 402C at the moment where the gauges have been proven to be accurate to within 5 to 10 litres and I am talking about the original gauges.:D

And Capt Wally, it has a 400b autopilot where it all works including being able to do a coupled approach.:D

Incidentally, if the early fuel system was designed that way for a reason they why did they change it? Had a better idea perhaps, which was my orginal point. My gripe with it primarily has to do with flying multiple short sectors when I needed more fuel than just the mains and no sector was more than an hour. The only way was to keep a very detailed fuel log involving the number of minutes spent on mains and then auxs to ensure I didn't "overfill" the mains. A pain in the proverbial.:uhoh:

For ease of use I still think the Aero Commander has them all beat. Five cells interconnected with both engines drawing from the same source.:ok:

[Spotlight]

Goodness gracious me! Multiple sectors with the onerous task of keeping a detailed fuel log. Is that even allowed under the regs!

Still, your okay now. Capacitance systems are 100% reliable so no need for a second or God forbid a third method of determining FOB.

Defen (and other interested parties), for the record, RDZ was the first to retire. For its last flight it was stripped to the bone. Most of the floor out, lots of holes in the panel etc. It was parked at Cooloolah Stn to beat parking fees at MA and Christmas tree'd over the next twelve monthes before being bought by Honest Dennis and trucked to HUG to join the collection.

Subsequently an immaculate low time A model (long nose) was purchased from the fellow who started TAMAIR. His name escapes me at the moment but he is still a player in Aus Av with engineering and hostie training in Qld.

The A model was imported from Japan, very well tarted up at a school for engineers in TAM and reregistered VH RDZ. An incredibly accurate STEC autopilot was also fitted.

Sad to hear that it is well past its former glory.

BPX is the machine sitting in the SES yard. It spent a bit over a year in PNG at the end of its life, performing fairly honestly but not popular, (visible shaking) with the pilots.

All that stress with detailed fuel logs I think.

It was brought back for the engines. Last flight was Madang-Horn Island-Weipa-Mount Isa. 17000' past Mt Wilhelm.

On a personal note Defen, do you recall Manwell's perceptive question on which fuel to use/transfer first? The aux, or the nacelle?

[ITCZ]

Here is a 421B fuel diagram I got from the web some time ago. I suspect its not dissimilar to the 402.

Not dissimilar at all -- bloody close actually, that is from the 421B POH!

The crux of this problem is understanding the fuel-return-to-tank system.

From the 1985 C402C POH...
ENGINE DRIVEN FUEL PUMPS

Each engine is equipped with a mechanically driven fuel pump which provides fuel to the metering. Each pump also contains a bypass which returns excess fuel and vapour to the main tanks at all times (my bolding). Should these pumps fail, the main tank auxiliary pumps can provide sufficient fuel flow for all partial-power engine operations.

So, the engine driven fuel pumps always supply fuel at a rate required for full power ops. At lower power operations, fuel is returned to the mains. In a C model, the engine pump draws a lot, and returns some to the mains. In a B model, you gotta make sure there is room for that returned fuel, otherwise it will be vented overboard. And your aux tanks will be emptied at a rate equal to TO power!

I do, however, seem to recall a process we went through on pre-flight to check the function of the fuel pumps, but I can't tell you the details without recourse to the POH. Does suggest an overly complex system.

Through the mists of time.... dodgy tips and tricks with C402 fuel systems.

Not a complex system really, FTDK. How to 'imagine' the proper use of the system, just think:
L selector = selects the tank to feed the L engine
R selector = selects the tank to feed the R engine

Choices in A/B models: Same side aux, same side main, off, opposite side main via crossfeed pipe.

Choices in C model: Same side main, off, opposite side main via crossfeed pipe.

Problems: The selector, mounted on the floor between the two pilot seats, remotely turns the fuel control (selector) valve via cables. Just because a selector handle is pointing to a tank, doesn't mean the valve has selected that tank. It is possible for AUX to be selected if the pilot has not checked the detent is in MAIN. Symptoms: fuel being burned from one side of the aircraft only, other main not decreasing, or possibly even increasing as fuel is returned to that tank by the same side engine pump.

Also, water can settle in the tank that might not have been properly drained in the preflight.

The Airnorth informal 'solution' from the 1980s/1990s, not from the POH:

Preflight, electrics on, listen for the 'ticka-ticka-ticka' of the pumps during the walkaround.

Startup, taxi to runup and warmup on mains. Select both engines to AUX tanks for power and CSU checks to pull some fuel through those lines. Then individually select each engine to xfeed from the opposite MAIN tank, then push the button on the selector to momentarily select ENG OFF, observe power loss as engine driven pumps starved of fuel (momentarily, dont let it die!) then immediately return to same side MAIN feed. Repeat for opposite engine.

Feel for the detent on each selection.

In that way you have drawn fuel from each of the three sources of supply for each engine, checked the fuel off selection, and ensured that you will be feeding same side MAIN to ENGINE when you startup for departure, even if your fuel selector cables are slack.

Some C400 pilots liked to also check operation of the emergency crossfeed shutoff lever, but more than a few LAME didn't like us doing this -- the emerg xfeed was also cable operated, but was a single cable run, 'pull-to-close-push-to-open-again' sort of cable. Daily operation/testing of the emerg xfeed shutoff just led to lots of cable replacements!

Other things I remember about C400....

....Check the wires in the 'piano' hinges that attach gear doors and other hatches to the aircraft during walkaround... they had a habit of working their way out and unhinging the door!

...If you suspect a blown globe in the cockpit gear indicator lamps, DONT attempt to change the globe whilst electrical power is on... you will just blow ALL the globes when you push the lamp unit back in!

...It is possible to offload nine pax, load 25 cartons of bread containing a dozen loaves each, and manifest/load/brief 9 new pax in 9 minutes and 25 seconds, but no less ;)

(Normal caveat applies, has been more than a few years since I operated C400 series!)

[Towering Q]

When refuelling to full mains and aux....fill aux first then start on mains. By the time the main tank is full the level in the aux should have dropped. The fuel takes a little longer to flow through the pipe work and into the second aux tank.

[Spotlight]

Say What.

The rubber bladder is the reason for that.

[Spotlight]

Ahhh, caught me! Yes indeed the tubular connected cells.

Funny guy!

[Capt Wally]

"Spotlight".........Tamairs owner (well one of them years ago, but not sure if he was the original starter) was Paul B, I won't say his last name here, clever guy:)


"Plovett" the only Cessna A/P I was lucky enough to have work properly was an old C200 in an old C172, wings lvl was a luxury way back then !


CW:ok:

[Defenestrator]

Spotlight,

From memory pretty sure it was slippers then aux's as they weren't immediately available if you lost an engine.

D:ok:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

In my experience, Cessna A/Ps and "working" are generally mutually exclusive events!

Dr :8

[Spotlight]

Defen

No, not an engine failure problem. More the AC power. Electric pumps are used to move the fuel from the slippers to the mains, as distinct from the cable/valve arrangement with the aux tanks.

Even with the Field Switch to excite the AC it was thought to be prudent to move the fuel reliant on electrics first.

[RatsoreA]

I hate to add my (probably very inflammitory) comment to this, but I feel I need to!

All these C4XX series fuel system problems can be solved by simply taking the offending Cessna out the back, leaving it there and replacing it with a Chieftain. Or an Aerostar. Fuel problem solved.

Let the hate mail commence...

:}

[Stationair8]

PLovett, you wouldn't survive in the heyday of Talair and there C402A operation in PNG.
Plenty of GA aircraft with complex fuel systems:
Partenavia P68B, how many people on their endorsement were actually shown how the fuel system worked including the crossfeed, amazing how linkages etc can seize up when not used etc
Piper PA30 with nacelle and tip tanks,
Piper PA31 Pressurised Navajo VH-BSF/SGA,

[Spotlight]

Rat... Mate

Aerostar, Chiefton, what was the other one TBONE,

Sure they have had their day.

The 402 was the best though.

Untill HOA the hangar queen of cause!

[Capt Fathom]

In my experience, Cessna A/Ps and "working" are generally mutually exclusive events
As long as both armrests were serviceable, you didn't need an A/P :E

Stationair8: PLovett, you wouldn't survive in the heyday of Talair and there C402A operation in PNG. Why not? What was so special about C402's in PNG?

[Tinstaafl]

re burn slipper(s) or aux first?

I'd rather burn the aux. first (after testing to make sure the slipper transfer pump works...). Even allowing for the undocumented possibility of transferring the failed side aux fuel to its same side main using the Hi Press fuel pumps + mixture ICO + Aux selected I most definitely don't wan't to be caught on one engine with dead weight of virtually unaccessible fuel in the failed side aux.

[RatsoreA]

My apologies to the starter of this post, but the Piper line is the pilots plane...

Rugged, reliable, simple, forgiveing, well built planes.

PA-31. 2 tanks a side, and it either on mains or aux.

PA 600. 3 tanks, all on, all the time (Yes, I know I am simplifying it, but not that much!)

Apart from the Aerostar, the Piper line had excellent compatability from the lower models. Warrior, Archer, Lance/Saratoga, Seminole, Senecca, Navajo/Chieftain. They all share the same basic layout and same simplicity, and as you progess on your career, there is a degree of familiarity when upgrading! The good folks at Piper would never design into thier Aircraft a way where you could accidentally vent fuel overboard.

And to test the 'age factor' waters, who remembera VH-SAO?

[Spotlight]

There you go young fellows.

Tin an Defen use their heads even on something as simple as a 402 fuel system going back many years in their experience.

[Stationair8]

VH-SAO Piper PA-31 Sally Anne Osgood the pride of Arnhem Air's fleet.
It must have been one of the first PA-31's bought into the country.
A mate flew it in between Ossie sacking him, the aircraft had less than 5000 hours in early 1970. He got the sack one morning after flying and went home 4pm the phone rings it was Ossie you aren't sacked anymore , and your got a charter tonight Darwin-Coober Pedy for an Opal buyer.

Capt Fathom nothing special about Talair and their C402 operation, at the time they were leading operator in the world with hours flown etc

[RatsoreA]

HAHAHAHA... The fickle nature of GA...

I am not even sure SAO flys anymore. Last time I saw it, it had nearly 20,000 hrs on it, and looked in a most decrepit state. Seems everyone that ever flew a PA31 in Australia cut at least a few teeth in it!

[Stationair8]

Don't forget the Partenavia VH-ECO, how many hours did that thing have on it?

[Spotlight]

Showing my age now. I remember SAO having the Tape Deck fitted. That would go close to being the first IFE in Australia. Circa 86.

[RatsoreA]

Yeah, now thats going back a few years!

By the time it had gotten to me, it had long since lost the tape deck. I think these days its lucky if it even has seats...

[Spotlight]

Oh, my word. I even have a feeling SAO was airconditioned when Ossie first got it. Plash airplane that pella!

[Peter Fanelli]

Where did the term slipper tank come from?
Google slipper tank and all the references are about tanks mounted externally on pylons being called slipper tanks.
Cessna 300 and early 400 series aircraft have "Wing Locker Tanks".

The question of which to burn first is actually something of a dilemma and probably depends on what kind of failure you are going to have on the day, engine or electrical.

I would use the Auxiliary tanks first because in the event of an engine failure the fuel in the aux tank on the side of the dead engine becomes unmovable in 310's and 402/A/B's due to the fact there is NO FUEL PUMP associated with the Aux tanks except for the engine driven pump. In a 421B there is an electric pump for the Aux tank and I suppose it MIGHT be possible to move some but I never had reason to attempt it The following schematic is for the 310R but is identical to the tip tanked 401's and 402's.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s295/bigt57/C310R.jpg

Compare it with the schematic for the 421 in reply #8 and notice the absence of electric fuel pumps in the Aux fuel line between the tanks and the engine driven pump in this diagram.

Without an electric pump, fuel in the aux tanks on the side of a dead engine is just dead weight and located in the outer part of the wing, not exactly where you'd want it with an engine out especially if you're going to have a long way to fly and are going to end up light on fuel on the live side.
This brings up something else to beware of, obviously for the same reason you'd want to crossfeed the main tank fuel from the dead side to the live engine. Remember where the excess fuel if any is going to go, into the tip tank on the live engine side so watch you don't start pumping fuel overboard there while crossfeeding.

PLovett


I happpen to be flying a 402C at the moment where the gauges have been proven to be accurate to within 5 to 10 litres and I am talking about the original gauges.
The capacitance type fuel sensors in later Cessna twins are very accurate when they are working, but I refer you to,

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2007/AAIR/aair200706444.aspx

Ok, a question for you all.

You are somewhere in the bush in a 402C and one fuel gauge is inop.
You can't take a full fuel load but you do need to make sure you have the same amount in both tanks, how could you determine that?

You hunt around the aircraft in all the dim dark recesses and all you come up with is a pair of womens lacy underwear, a plumb bob, a fairly long length of plastic tubing and some old pieces of floor board.

[Tinstaafl]

Use the plumb bob + floorboards to get the a/c laterally level. Connect the tubing between the tanks. Gravity will cause the fuel tanks to self-level given enough time.

I suppose the ladies underwear is to wear while waiting for the above to finally finish. You did say I was alone in the bush, didn't you? :ooh:

[PLovett]

Peter Fanelli

Thank you for the link.

Whilst the gauges in the aircraft I am flying are accurate (at the moment) I do not rely on them alone. The aircraft is equipped with a Shadin Fuel Flow meter and because I normally work with a default fuel setting, I know where that level is on the mesh filter in the tanks.

In my previous job I flew 402Cs where the gauges were anything but accurate (they also had Shadin meters) but because I was often having to fly with minimum fuel it became a real art form to work out actual fuel loads. Tended in those cases to always take the lower, gauge or Shadin as the figure which probably led to an increasing fuel load over time but every so often you would get a flight where you could fill the tanks and start from a known figure again.

[NOSIGN]

My five cents worth

On the two 402B’s that I have flown, the fuel selector could freeze when operating at approx minus 16 d C. Use forethought when flying in or towards these temperatures or you may be unable to switch between auxies, mains or crossfeed until reaching a warmer altitude.

Beware that the wing locker fuel pumps have been known to not transfer fuel until really wet on descent - even if you do keep the pumps wetted with fuel on the ground.

The ball valve system in the 402B fuel selector can stick, which may cause you to be on a different tank than the tank that the fuel selector is pointing too. Cycling fuel selectors from off, main, auxie, txfr and back during a pre-flight in my opinion is a good idea.

The wing locker vent is pressure sensitive. When filling wing locker tanks (esp when the engine is hot) 1. try not to spill fuel over the turbo 2. if filling to the top, flow the last few litres at a slower rate to equalise the inner and outer tank pressures and or 3. leave the tank caps off until you finish your walkaround; then replace the caps:O! If fuel is p*%sing from the vent after you have re-fueled, switching the txfr pump on for a few seconds with the fuel cap off stops the overflow in a few seconds.

Show Airmanship and avoid running both auxie tanks dry at the same time:mad:.

Keep those landing light CB’s engaged in flight, esp on descent and landing (ref. ‘ticka’ pumps):mad:

Spotlight – “are ya feeling lucky? Well are ya?” If there was no other operational significance, I would start with transferring wing locker or auxie fuel depending on which failure I would think I’d be more likely occurring on the day. However, consider that only the mains and auxies have quantity indicators.

If it were possible, when fuelling, I would divide the fuel quantity between auxies and wing lockers so that if I had an engine failure, I would have enough remaining fuel in the main and wing locker and the opposite side to get to a destination, or if I had an electrical failure, I would have enough fuel in the mains and auxies to fly to a destination.:8

Now if only you could fill all tanks and carry useful cargo and not reach MTOW would the 402b system be anywhere as good as an AeroCommander fuel system.:ok:

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Peter,

I would use the Auxiliary tanks first because in the event of an engine failure the fuel in the aux tank

As long as you had sufficient spaces in the main tanks to hold half the capacity of the aux, otherwise you would pump it overboard.

So, fly for an hour on the mains, then use the aux's, as per the POH pretty much and you'll have no problems.

Slipper tank, AKA Nacelle tank, i have flown 15 odd different aircraft with these fuel systems, only one had the Nacelle tank.

[Cessna Master Beta]

Como esta

402 Cessna Argentina not to sure what your trying to find out about the 402B fuel system but at the end of the day you shouldn’t trust information or diagrams off a rumour network to make repairs on your fuel system. Get a copy of the Service/Parts Manual. Since a lot of aircraft crash because of fuel problems I suggest getting it done right.

Who ever did your training on the 402b should have given you a complete run down on the fuel system and I applaud you if your doing extra study into it, as I am sure it could trip up even an experienced pilot

Adios

[heated ice detector]

I remember a Darwin based 402 running a tank dry about 8 years ago, It turned out to be loose screws on the fuel selector housing, valve was not pointing where it should of, the pilot landed at Tindal I think,

[ITCZ]

I remember a Darwin based 402 running a tank dry about 8 years ago, It turned out to be loose screws on the fuel selector housing, valve was not pointing where it should of, the pilot landed at Tindal I think,

VH-NMQ, 402C, almost 8 years ago.

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2000/AAIR/aair200001827.aspx

As described in my previous post, when C400 types were the mainstay of air north, we made the fuel selections during runups, each engine drawing fuel from each available tank, then momentarily OFF, then back to mains.

Then orders came from above, do not make those non standard fuel selections in runups. The engineers are complaining that you are U/S'ing aeroplanes after they fail a test that is not in the POH :ugh:

Just before those instructions made it into flight standing orders, a pilot took a 402C out of Tindal that had a few recent issues with the fuel system. Pilot did runups to new policy. Start on mains, select crossfeed and ensure it runs ok, then return to mains.

Only problem was, the selector valve mechanism was worn. The selector handle was pointing at MAIN for both engines, but both motors were feeding off the left tank. So there was two hours fuel in the aeroplane, but only one hours available to feed the motors for a one hour TN-DN flight.

The pilot proceeded to destination. The left motor cut due fuel starvation in the landing roll, and the right motor cut due fuel exhaustion as it taxiied off the runway. The right motor lasted a bit longer due to a little more fuel available in the crossfeed plumbing!

[Peter Fanelli]

So when he discovered there was a problem why didn't he use crossfeed for both engines? That way the both tanks could be consumed.

[Cessna Master Beta]

Only problem was, the selector valve mechanism was worn.

The 402c fuel selector is mainly made up of 5 or 6 O-rings and two spring loaded ball bearings to hold a selection . Only the Orings need to be changed to overhaul but it does take about half a day (its ******* tight in there)to get it out and back in again.

Best to change the Orings on a regular basis , almost every time the selector is out ....no point being lazy:}

[Stationair8]

PLovett I wouldn't put all your faith in Shadin fuel computers either as they do have little problems including pilot finger trouble and also electrical spikes/surges don't always do them the world of good either.

[PLovett]

Stationaire8

I wouldn't put all your faith in Shadin fuel computers either

That is not what I said.:=

I use 3 separate methods and cross check between them: visual check of the tank (when filled to the default setting), the gauges and the Shadin. On arrival at a destination I have an idea of what should be in the tanks and that is what I initially look for on the gauges and the Shadin. I then confirm (or get worried :uhoh:) when I refuel.:ok:

[GW_04]

QuoteOne other issue i have had with the C402/C310 is hot starting.

"The Left and Right Landing lights circuit breakers also power the ticker pumps ( these are located on the bottom side of the main fuel tank pods, turn the master on and you should hear them tick tick ticking ).

When priming a hot engine, i have had more sucess by opening the cct breaker during the start and priming the fuel system with the fuel pumps in the "HI" position.

Ensure the cct breakers are closed after start.

I have had little sucess using the "prime" function switch, surely someone else here would have some solid advice on how to best use the prime function."

Hi LHRT,

Most of what you say about the 310/402 fuel system is spot on :ok: Very good info indeed!

However, the info on start technique you state above really does need some mention.
Forget about circuit breakers and ticker pumps etc.. what the IO520 wants is fuel. Through the system that is!
It (B58,C310,C402,C404 etc etc) requires fuel to flow through the system for at least 30 secs to cool the pump and fuel control unit to prevent the fuel boiling (vapour). Check the B58 POH, it almost says just that.

So, the best start method to use (as per the manufacturer really):

Throttle open, Mixture lean, Pumps High for 30 secs, pumps off, mixture rich, throttle 1 inch or so, start!
C402,404,310 use a tickle on the primer as you crank, you WILL get a perfect start every time.
This method is what the manufacturer recommends, and is also the SOP at Skytrans and Westwing who fly these things every day. :ok:

[Grogmonster]

just to set the record straight guys. The ticker pumps do not pump fuel into the fuel lines or pressurise the fuel sytem in any way. What they do is pump fuel from the front of the tank, when in low fuel state, back to the collector box where the main fuel feed is during descent. So don't worry about pulling circuit breakers as it will not serve any purpose. For others who are not quite sure the primer switch and the seperate Hi / Low boost switches actually use the same pump. I assume that the different fuel flow is achieved by regulating the voltage. Good thread though and pretty much spot on.

[Cessna 402 Argentina]

I´d like to thank averybody for your help!
I was on vacation!
Thanksss again!!!!:ok:

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Hi GW, India, well done !!!!.