Eurocontrol - Maastricht Conversion Courses

[The Euronator]

To all those interested . Eurocontrol Maastricht will advertise at the end of this week for Conversion Controllers. There will be at least 8 positions on offer.

It will only be advertised on their website ie. http://www.eurocontrol.int

The first course will begin in the 2nd week of March 2008.

[Radar]

Sheeze, mate !

Are things soooooo quiet for you in training you've been reduced to touting for business here? What's the world coming to at all, at all ? :}:}:}

[northernmonkey1261]

Hi
when you say conversion course, do you mean a shortened course for already qualifed controllers, IE not the full 3 years?

I couldn't find anything on the website, any chance of a more specific link.

Thanks, and sorry if I missed something obvious

[Lon More]

126 Should come up here (http://http://www.eurocontrol.int/corporate/public/standard_page/jobs_opportunities.html)
Eurocontrol Maastricht will advertise at the end of this week

[The Euronator]

Northern Monkey,

You can expect the advertisement on the website by Friday 23rd November 2007.

You are correct in that they are looking for already qualified ATC's.
So the course is abbreviated....BUT
Due to the Saftey Authority regulations the Controllers will join an Abinitio course starting in Maastricht. The length of training is a minimum of 12 months but you can expect that the total training time will be between 12-16 months.

The training is as follows
3A ( 5 weeks ) .. Transition training eg. Map exams etc.
4A ( 2 weeks ) .. Letters of agreement & Simulation
4A Cont'd ( 9 weeks ) .. OJT on the planning position
4B ( 9 weeks ) .. Simulation & 1 week exam period
5A ( OJT ) .. OJT, normally will last minimum 6 months

[biffo170]

To start in the second week of March....

I'd say most ATCO's must give at least 3 months notice and usually more depending on experience. Eurocontrol will have to pick them quickly....

[viaEGLL]

Only currently Area valid considered for this conversion???

[The Euronator]

viaEGLL

I cant comment on the selection committee but I would gather they would look at currently endorsed Area Controllers. It's worth an application though, who knows.

Radar,

Hahahahahaha. Not so quiet, just looking for people to replace me so I can come back in on that wonderful roster you guys will be getting :} 3 on 3 off looks very enticing shame it will take a while.

[Radar]

3 on, 3 orf ........ don't make me larf!!!

You'll be so busy working conversions to make that roster a reality, you'll never see a CWP again :}

[west atc]

Anyone able to let me know what the conditions experienced recruits will be employed under?

What pay scale would you start on?
What amount of rec leave is available?
What are the weekly hours?

What is it like to work at Maastrict?

I have 12 years experience in Australia, mostly in Arrivals and Enroute Radar.

Any info would be appreciated.

[Alpha-Mike]

Hi guys, here is the link for the conversion controllers application:

https://extranet.eurocontrol.int/http://yilduz.mis.eurocontrol.be:8889/accueil_ENG_LIVE.htm



Just some quick info: need to hold a European nationality, as well as a valid radar license and ICAO english level 4.

West atc, the conditions are mentioned in the job description if you follow the link.

[The Euronator]

West ATC,

Check your PM's

[Track Coastal]

Out of interest what sort of money is getting taken home now by you guys. 1EUR = $1.70AUD as of today:eek:

[The Euronator]

Track Coastal,

As of today, I take home around $A15,500 per month (AFTER TAX). This does NOT include OT/ED which is plentiful at the moment.

Lon More earns more than this sitting on his ass & drinking beer. Lets say the pension scheme is pretty good.:} ...Hi Lon

[Track Coastal]

Assuming you spend a third on the mortgage, thats probably the best deal going at the moment (ie comparing to the ME) courtesy of the booming big E currency. :D:D

PS To take home $15,500 a month ($186,000pa) in Australia one has to earn only $301,200 pa before tax.:eek:

Good work mate.:ok:

[wolf_wolf]

Dear Euronator ! Reiterating West ATC's enquiry, what salary approximately would experienced recruits expect to commence on ? Is the salary structure like a slow 13-year climb to the top, or is it qualification/rating based ? (meaning you simply are paid subject to ATC/instructor/supervisor ratings as they are achieved). I understand the training is for at least 9 months, which I assume would be on a probationary training wage of sorts ? The application mentions an appointment for an "undetermined period". Would this typically be 1 year ? 5 years ? And what exactly is "1.9% of pension rights" ? Does it mean that after say 10 years you would receive 19% of an equivalent Dutch national pension...?

How would the cost of living compare to that say in Australia ? Housing, rent, car, food etc...?

And lastly what is it like living in Maastricht ?

Thanks

[Balloon24]

Expect there will be a few controllers from the UK who'll be watching this with interest......in the past I've heard that NATS persuaded Eurocontrol that taking any of their controllers would be a bad idea....bit of a "gentlemans agreement" :=? Hope there is a level playing field for EVERYONE considering applying. Good luck if you are one of them :ok:.

[Radar]

Balloon24,

Pretty sure that the days of that 'gentleman's agreement' are long gone. Let's face it there are sod all gentlemen left in this game at the moment. Everyone's trying their utmost to fill the gaps.

Best of luck to one and all who apply.

[The Euronator]

Wolf Wolf

Not to sound too derogatory but this information is available on the Eurocontrol Website. It even mentions it in BIG RED WRITING !!! on the Vacancy section. It is located on the PDF document called our staff regulations ( General Conditions of Employment for Eurocontrol Maastricht ). The page number you are looking for is Page 58 in the document or Page 72 in the PDF file.

These figures are all NET (after tax) sums.

Echelons/Steps
Grade 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
O8 8.008,58 8.437,24 8.865,90 9.294,56 9.723,22 10.151,88
O7 6.926,48 7.297,63 7.668,78 8.039,93 8.411,08 8.782,23
O6 5.896,65 6.220,76 6.544,87 6.868,98 7.193,09 7.517,20 7.841,31 8.165,42
O5 5.102,07 5.342,54 5.583,01 5.823,48 6.063,95 6.304,42 6.544,89 6.785,36
O4 4.286,57 4.485,22 4.683,87 4.882,52 5.081,17 5.279,82 5.478,47 5.677,12
O3 3.910,19 4.098,38 4.286,57 4.474,76 4.662,95 4.851,14 5.039,33 5.227,52
O2 3.293,34 3.434,48 3.575,62 3.716,76 3.857,90 3.999,04 4.140,18 4.281,32
O1 2.948,33 3.068,56 3.188,79 3.309,02 3.429,25 3.549,48 3.669,71 3.789,94

Now where you fit in to this equation ie. O4 or O3 is up to you and HR.

In my case I came to Eurocontrol with 8 years Radar experience and slotted into Grade O4 Step 5 ie. I got 1 step for every 2 years of experience.

Now dependant on your situation is what EXTRA allowances you get on top of this.

So lets say you have 8 years experience & are Married with 1 child.

Eurocontrol pays you around 270 euro per month as a Head of Household allowance ie. For the Mrs (so she tells me)

Eurocontrol will also pay you around 260 euro per month for EACH kiddie you have.

So in your case lets say basic salary is 4,882,52 +270+260 = 5412.52

But wait there's more. If you are NOT a Dutch National you are entitled to an Expatriation allowance of 16% of the above sum = 866.00

This gives you a sum of 6278.52 per month.

You are then get an ATC allowance = roughly 600 euro per month

This gives you a sum of 6878.52 per month.

Then once you start on Shift work you will get the Composite Shift work allowance or Flat rate shift allowance which is around 1100 per month.

There are OTHER benefits as well but you can do a bit of homework with HR about the Educational , Annual Travel expenses etc that they pay.

You will get this amount ie. 6878.52 from the day you start , I am not sure when the Flat rate shift allowance kicks in. There is however a nice little allowance that compensates for this known as the Daily Substance Allowance you can ask HR about this one. This will adequately cover the FRSA you dont get immediately.

Your progression through the steps is Bi-annually. Every 5 years you go up a Grade ie 04 to 05. You cannot decrease in salary.

The pension rights work out to 1.9% of basic salary for every year of service paid for by Eurocontrol. What does this mean. Well if you serve Eurocontrol for 25 years you will get almost 50% of you END BASIC salary as a Pension.So your assumption is correct.

The Training period will be between 12-16 months. More than likely on the latter end of the spectrum.

[The Euronator]

Now with regard to the other issues.

The probation period is 9 months or until you checkout FULLY ie your 2nd Checkout within the sector group. whichever is later. Hence the reason they put this in probationary period of 9 months which could be extended pending gaining the full qualification. Once you are outside the probation period you are a Eurocontrol staff member for as long as YOU want to be ie. Permanent.

I would say the cost of living is a little more expensive here eg. the general price of food & petrol (1.45 per litre for Unleaded , 1.20 for diesel , varies country to country )

The housing prices are becoming more on par with Australia each time I return. Although you wont have the space you might be accustomed to.

The rental prices for a fairly nice place vary from country to country ie The Netherlands you will pay around 1000-1200 euro per month (maybe more) for decent accommodation but in Belgium (20 kms away) you will pay less.

Maastricht is a great little city. Equivalent in size to Launceston (maybe slightly bigger ) but very central & so many options to travel. You will be 2.5 hours by TGV to Paris Gare Nord.

That's about it....No more questions ?

[Radar]

Euronator,
Let no-one say you haven't done your bit. :}:}:}
If your medical ever goes there's a cosy chair somewhere in HR for you buddy !

[makosa]

What's the shift work like ? 4 ON 3 OFF ?

[CARD]

Any idea how much they are planning to pay during the course?

[2b2]

if Warney could be a German, I must be able to get a Euro passport somehow .... :)

[Radar]

makosa,

Currently the shift is 4 on, 2 off. Roster negotiations are on-going with a view to gradually introducing a new roster from next year.

[The Euronator]

Card,

Read my previous post. I can't give you a definitive answer unless you have worked out with HR where you fit into the grid. Based on the example I gave, the person would start on 6878.52 per month AFTER tax plus the daily allowance (800 euro per month Confirm this with HR). They would get the Shift allowance at the stage in training when they start doing shift work.

[makosa]

Thanks for the information Euronator, are people working in the control room happy with their current work conditions?

[CARD]

Thanks Euronator. I just couldn't believe that they are going to pay ATC-allowance and all other extras even though you are not working as an operational ATCO.

[andrijander]

Hey there,

makosa: we're generally happy. Everybody is different so your personal situation has a lot to do with it. I think people's main concern here may be management -does it ring a bell?- Not that they're any worse than around and we have some really good managers but others think we're overpaid monkeys that don't deserve what we have and that can't understand how we tie our shoe laces on our own-again, seen it before?-.

It's not wonderland but the working environment is pretty good and, even when things go pear shapped, people tend to behave very professionaly. So overall it's a good spot to be.

I'm only guessing here but if you'd be really interested just contact recruitment and maybe they can arrange a tour round the ops so you can get to talk to us live -don't forget to bring some peanuts and bananas ;) -.

A.

PS: no hq position for me thanks, happy enough here -though if they have anything by the sea I may reconsider!!!

[TrafficTraffic]

Your progression through the steps is Bi-annually
I think you mean...
Biennially
Bi·en·ni·al·ly
adv.
Once in two years.
...unless things have changed :ouch:
That said EDYY is a great place to live (and a little bit of me dies inside when I say this) with the changes to the training section (Euronater and others) these guys will look after you and your conversion should be good.
send me money Goose
Now I will come back if you promise me that London have improved :=
TT

[The Euronator]

TT

Doh, you got me.:\ I better brush up on my English before the ELPAC testing starts early next year. Otherwise I might be on the receiving end of a level 4.:\

Will we see a TT CV coming across the desk ?

With RE: to London , their Geographical knowledge of the rest of Europe is getting better, SLOWLY.

[levelD]

TT
You can always skip the London issue by applying for the HANN sectors:E
Hope to see your CV across the desk.
LevelD

[TrafficTraffic]

I was thinking Brussels Sectors :cool:

[millerman]

TT
You would be ok on the Brussels sectors - they do as they please and don't talk to anyone anyway!:) So you wouldn't have to deal with London:ok:
The cricket team is short next year so we need you back for the on field entertainment.

[TrafficTraffic]

Millerman,
Thought the team was finished?

TT

(not London although....)

[The Euronator]

TT

Your women's intuition is astounding..Brussels Sectors for Conversion Controllers is pretty accurate ;)

[millerman]

TT
We will see how many turn up in April as to wether we have a team or not - it might just be 2 brits and the Mullet left :eek: So any conversion controllers who con play ( a loose requirement ) cricket are more than welcome.
As for the London situation - if they have any more system failures like today you might not be able to talk to them :}:)

[Lon More]

conversion controllers who con play Sums a few up nicely.
I hear there is cause for much rejoicing at the end of the year?
Suitable leaving present? (http://edibleanus.com/)
Keep up the good work; you're paying me to enjoy myself these days.;)


Link repaired

[millerman]

Hi Lon,
Good to hear from you again - especially to point my typo out:O
Your link didn't work, but looking at the title, I think some people in ops believe that he already has one. Certain people have tried to stick their head as far up it as possible already;):(

[viaEGLL]

Chances of me getting a job without an AREA Rating ?

[garp]

Chances of me getting a job without an AREA Rating ?
Zero. Sorry for that, if you want to be 100 % sure give them a call. If I were king, I would welcome an APP controller. Some sectors look like a TMA anyhow.
REQUIRED PROFILE
Candidates must have experience as a qualified civil air traffic controller.
Experience in the control of upper airspace traffic or of airspace with a traffic complexity comparable to the one of Maastricht UAC would be beneficial.
Candidates must meet the Agency's physical and medical fitness requirements laid down for controller duties as assessed by the Agency's medical consultants.
Candidates must hold a valid area radar license (ACS RAD).
Experience in the execution of control duties using advanced ATC systems would be an avantage.
Candidates must have a good command of spoken and written English (at least ICAO level 4) to be able to follow the training courses, during which both theoretical and/or practical training will be conducted in English. Knowledge of other European languages would be an advantage

[west atc]

Application is in!

Wonder if they will wait until the applications close.

[muccapazza72]

anyone knows how many vacancies for the last Maastricht UAC announcement?

[TrafficTraffic]

Hope they DONT include a test for searching forums - for your sake!


http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=304872


Look for Euronator's post, bottom of page 1


TT

[Sobelena]

Trouble is Lon that for every one that leaves us two more join us!