43 Air School (threads merged)

[Dirk]

I am considering going to 43 Air School in Port Alfred for a full-time CPL/IR course. My eventual goal is to come back to Europe and fly for an airline here; however I would like to spend a year or two in Africa to build up my hours first.

I would like to hear from anybody who went to 43 Air School and wants to share their experience. Also any opinions, positive of negative, from other people would be much appreciated.

Does 43 Air School have the same problems as for example Oxford Air Training School in the UK ? I am referring to the recent criticism, directed at OATS, about the perceived difference in the treatment of airline-sponsored cadets versus self-sponsored students.



[This message has been edited by Dirk (edited 15 October 1999).]

[Vuurpyl]

Hallo Dirk,

If you will go to the following website, you get some info on all the schools in SA: http://www.aeropages.co.za

Good Luck en geniet die vlieg: Dis Moers!!

------------------
Regards

Save flying, Low & Slow and throttle back round the corners!!

[Kabullet]

I would appreciate any info on this school, My wife would like to do her PPL-CPL. Any info on Weather(jan-Oct), accomodation, and any other experiences would be helpful.

[smallfry]

They have a website at www.imaginet.co.za/43airschool/welcome.htm. (http://www.imaginet.co.za/43airschool/welcome.htm.)
Your mate PUTCO is based there. Why don't you ask him?

[This message has been edited by smallfry (edited 13 August 2000).]

[Kabullet]

Thanks, I have checked the site. Was looking more for info from someone that has been there, and maybe even done one of the courses. Putco trained at another school.Thanks anyway.

[smallfry]

I was there in 93. I did my South African CPL ME/IR (before all the licence scandals!)
I had a great time, as everyone there was great, and the school was fun. I believe that they are much more serious now, as they do a lot of 'airline' training. I think that a PPL would still be fun there though.
The licence is based on the UK sylabus, and is of a similar standard. Port Alfred is a small backwater, but is a lot of fun if you try, and if you know somebody who owns one of the houses on the Marina, then even better. (water skiing at 3 am, jumping of the Cowie river bridge, and especially Barnacles, the nightclub!)

[putco]

I can go and get some info next time home Kabullet, but I don't think it's the kind you want.

Smallfry - sarcasm, I recognize that....

[smallfry]

Touchy or what? I merely read your details on your posting putco. Whats your problem?
You obviously know kabullet so whats so strange about suggesting that he asks you?

[This message has been edited by smallfry (edited 14 August 2000).]

[Kabullet]

Ok neutral corners lads. SF thanks, that gen is better. Will still look around though. Putco, turning a new forrest? Pharmesist maybe??

[putco]

Bwana - Forrest slowly changing and the Pharmacist always was!! Muddy is ready - sarcasm, didn't mention it wasn't the truest form of wit. Kinda like it. SF, post your e-mail, let's exchange some banter....?

[Kabullet]

Great Putty. The domestic seagull and I are looking at going down to PA in dec to check things out, what are your plans?

[IRISHWINGS]

HEARD A RUMOUR OVER HERE THAT 43 HAD BEEN SOLD TO NAC. ANY TRUTH IN THAT.

[Hot Shots]

Yes, NAC did buy 43 Air School. I think it is a good thing.;)

[Skaz]

Correct, the deal is done....methinks. Got the gen right from the instructor's mouth, NAC is also planning to move their helicopter training ops down there.

NAC has a reputation as a solid, safe company, 43's reputation and esteem can only be added to with this deal.

Heard 43 is giving ATP groundschool too nowadays, ecxellent groundschool instructor there. ex-saaf F1 fighter jock, good bloke, legendary stories

[IRISHWINGS]

SO WILL THERE BE A CHANGE IN MANAGEMENT DOWN THERE? SPENT A YEAR TRAINING IN 43, A LOT OF GOOD GUYS IN CHARGE THERE.

[The Claw]

Whats Jim Davis up to these day's? Is he still in the picture?

[IRISHWINGS]

I WAS THERE 99/00. BACK THEN HE HAD A HANDS OFF ROLE, MUST BE STILL A SHARE HOLDER. STEVE GOODRICK TOOK OVER AS CFI AND THE LAST I HEARD THERE WAS TALKS ABOUT A NEW CFI AT 43.

[Rebekah]

Hi,

It sounds like you all have good things to say about 43 Air School.
I am very eager to learn to fly in SA, however I am currently training in the UK but wow is it expensive.
I have looked into FTC of SA in connection with Federal Air, but anybody that could give me some helpful advice would be very much appreciated.
Regards,
Rebekah
[email protected]

[The Claw]

Thanks Irishwings , I did my PPL with him when he still had Cape Flying Services in George. Top bloke and I have some good memories..... :D

[IRISHWINGS]

REBEKAH,

DEPENING ON WHAT STAGE OF TRAINING YOU ARE AT, YOU HAVE A FEW OPTIONS.

HAVE YOU COMPLETED YOUR ATPL SUBJECTS YET. IF SO AND YOU ARE WORKING TOWARDS YOUR CPL/IR, I WOULD CONSIDER GOING TO THE STATES TO SAVE. CHECK OUT I.F.T.A IN STUART FLORIDA. YOU CAN GET YOUR CPL THERE FOR A GOOD PRICE WITH EXCELLENT INSTRUCTION, YOUR IR FLIGHT TEST MUST BE DONE IN JAA AIRSPACE WHICH MEENS RETURNING TO BRISTOL TO FINISH THE IR TRAINING, YOU WILL CARRY OUT 50 OF THE 55HRS IN THE STATES.

THIS CAN ALSO BE DONE IN FTC SOUTH AFRICA, BUT I THICK THEY ARE FAR TO EXPENSIVE FOR A SOUTH AFRICAN BASED SCHOOL, THEY EVEN CHARGE YOU IN STERLING, NOT ON WHEN YOU SEE THE RATES CHARGED BY THE LOCAL SCHOOLS.
WHEN I WAS IN 43 AIR SCHOOL IN 2000 I WAS PAYING 998RANDS AN HOUR FOR MULTI IR TRAINING , THATS ABOUT 95EUROS AN HOUR, COMPARE THAT TO THE UK NOW, BIG DIFFERENCE. OF COURSE43 ARE NOT YET JAA APPROVED.

[Radar Identified]

Anybody who was there in 99/00 got contact details for louis from namibia. please PM me if you do.

Thanks
R.I

[Jetstream_lover]

Hi
Im also looking for a mate from 43, a guy by the name of Richard Younge, a canadian, any help would be appreciated
Cheers

[Shrike200]

Louis...You talking about that huge guy who wasn't scared to buy someone a drink?

[Radar Identified]

Sounds like the fella I am trying to get in contact with. Any idea where he is now or what he is up to.

R.I

[frogone]

Radar I. Check PM

[Shrike200]

Sorry, thought I could scrounge up some contact info, but no joy.

[Radar Identified]

Irishrover check your PM. R.I:O

[Radar Identified]

Still no contact details as yet.
Name: Louis Ludik
Home: Johannesburg/Namibia somewhere

Any help would be appreciated, would love to catch up!

Thanks
R.I:confused:

[Radar Identified]

Anyone any info.

Would really like to catch up before christmas.

Regards

R.I

[leonsniff]

Hi there
Im heading down to start in 43 on the 16th of march coming! i was wondering if u had any tips etc or could tell me about the place! Any info is usefull!

[Mama Mangrove]

Aero Contractors in Nigeria send their sponsored helicopter students there and I believe that they're pretty satisfied with those who have returned after completing the course.:ok:

[leonsniff]

Do you know where there would be any links to reviews on the school where there mite be past or present students etc etc! As i said im from Ireland and heading down in a month so any tips would be useful before i leave! I cant find any info except for the 43 official website...i just dont know where to look

[Zoltan]

Kabullet / leonsniff

I finished up at 43 about 4 years ago, when I was there it was awesome. The A/C were in reasonable to very good nic and in the year I spent there we had 14 days of non-flyable weather, if that much, between April and December.

You might want to look at renting a house in town, a 2/3 bedroom house if you can share with some mates work out much cheaper than staying on the campus itself, truth be told the money they charge for a small room, and 1 bathroom between 4 guys and not to mention the food...not worth it !

Last I heard Barnacles closed, Spur opened instead, but sure there are some other places to go out to.

The local folk are mostly ok, the fishermen get boozed quite often and look for trouble with the soon-to-be-pilots, jealousy perhaps ? dont know but a friend of mine there got wacked with a pool que once so be weary !!

The training you receive there is of the highest standerd and most companys will give preferance to guys from 43.

Good luck and enjoy !

Bubblewrap

[leonsniff]

Thanks for the reply. Any things in particular i should bring down there? Any more oppinions would be greatly appreciated!

[porridge]

Being wacked with a pool cue - wow that's dangerous; makes Gauteng seem like a lekker plek by comparison!

[Jelly Doughnut]

Kabullet / Leonsniff

The school website www.43airschool.com has a page with details of old students.. worth getting in touch with a few of them for some first-hand information.

You can't go wrong with 43.. I was there in 1999/2000 and the place was great then. I have a few mates there at the moment and from what they say, it still is :ok:

Good luck

[onehotflyer]

43 is the best. I was there 1996/97 and have been back for renewals etc.

[Bucket]

Stay off site, it's cheaper. I know of a good house to rent, three beds two baths, all bills (ex telephone) included for R4500 per month.

:)

[99Luftballons]

Can anybody tell me what the ex-trainees that did their Commercial are up to now? Are you guys flying in SA, Europe, etc? Would greatly appreciate any insight as I am trying to find out what prospects there are after you spent all that money....

[Jelly Doughnut]

99 Lufty - refer to same school website for details of ex-students incl present careers!

I fly for an airline in Europe.. I know of at least a couple of ex-43 guys who do the same. Some are flying airlines or contracts around Africa, others further afield, Seychelles, Mauritius, Australia!

[PROPFLYER43]

43 is one of the best flying schools around.

I was a student and then an instrustor there - now flying commercially in Europe along with a few others after doing my JAR licence - excellent training

[birdlady]

I've heard a rumour that 43 has got JAA approval from the Irish Aviation Authority. Can anyone verify this cause it sounds to good to be true.
:ok: :ok:
Shot!!!!

[Vamps]

The rumours aren't rumours, they're true!

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Only for certain selected Irish students.

[leonsniff]

Im writing to verify that the school HAS got JAA approval fromm the IAA but unfortunatly it is for selected cadets only! Sigmar Aviation in conjunction with City Jet are running a new course down there as a new form of recruitment. There are 5 of us flying down there on the 16th of March.

[reptile]

Flown with a couple of cadets who graduated from 43 in 2005. Not impressed. Low time instructors are trying teach advance skills - and failing miserably. I just call it the way i see it. The airline not too happy with 43 either!

[Flyer14]

Everyone has their own opinion. I didn't train at 43 but I work with someone who did. He was there in 2001 and just started flying Barons. He reckons 43 used to be great but now aren't the best. If you're a private student maybe look elsewhere as they give preference to airline cadets, with regards to aircraft bookings, etc, unfortunate but true. Don't think that 43 is the only school in S.A. there are plenty of other schools in the country that are as good or better than 43 and preferance is certainly not given to 43 guys when it comes to jobs, certainly not at the companies I've worked at. Also heard rumours that SAA aren't entirely satishfied with the training and a couple of cadets were washed during their intership with SAX. I say again I didn't train there but this is what I heard from guys who have. Hope this helps. :)

[99Luftballons]

What about Algoa in PE or FTC in George in comparison? I heard nothing but good things about Algoa on this forum. I personally know someone who flew with FTC and liked the school. However, I believe that the aircraft availability at FTC (on the twin in specific) is rather unreliable.

[UAU242]

hi there
how much is piper rental at 43?
thanks

[DanNissa]

:ooh: Looks that are you are getting ready for the MK joyride...Hmmm...wanna be a step ahead....GOOD PLANNING:ok:

[strong medicine]

reptile i might have my head totally up my own :mad: here but it seems to me that anywhere you go instructors will generally be low time guys looking to build hours... obviously thats a generalisation but i would say fairly accurate.
the good thing about 43 is that the programme is structured in such a way that even low time instructors cant fail miserably- heres a thought.... maybe the problems not the organisation but the pilot that trained there!

it does look like they favour contracts with airline cadetts now, but private people still go through at a fair pace despite the sometime bad weather- anyone notice the great weather we've been having in jhb lately;)

[reptile]

Absolutely right! I'm just an observer from the airlines point of view. 43 was selected to provide training for airline cadets. When you want to provide a service like that, you need to deliver a product that meets the clients expectation. It is in that respect that I believe 43 failed. The cadets thet were trained in Oz were by no means Yeagers', but they were noteably superior to the 43 product.

Low time instructors is a symptom of the industry. Whe can burn that bridge on another thread at another time. :ok:

[JetWSH]

I have been in aviation for approximately 15 years. I have flown with many pilots over the years and 43 graduates do not rate in my top 10. One thing I will give them is 10 out of 10 for their arrogance/confidence. However arrogance when they are wrong is a dangerous thing. They believe that they know all and no one can teach them anything!

I have been in many situations with these "gods gift to aviation" pilots and they are in a word SHOCKING. When they come out of the promised land of flying they really lack basic skills! I am fortunately in an airline now and only on occasion have to fly with these Chuck Yeager's of SA aviation.

The truth be told the idea of 43 is great but the attitude that comes with that licence is not worth the money! I have sent my kids some where else to learn the skills required to be a good and competent pilot.

I have flown with many competent pilots and alot of 43 products but initial they should realise they are small fishs in a big pond.

I have had the misfortune of meeting a pilot from 43 lately who is after a few months is a training Captain on a reasonable sized aircraft and son you have alot to learn.

This is not a personal attack but this is the truth!

In all honesty and I would recommend many other schools. But you make up your own mind.

[SIC]

43 Airschool caters for kids that need discipline and a wake up call in the morning. They spoonfeed. So if your wife is older than 20 ( if not ..lucky you ) I suggest you send her off to a smaller school that gives a more personal deal. It 's guaranteed to be cheaper too - 43 is well known for being the most expensive. Also must agree with the statement someone made about experience of instructors. Many other schools will have a better mix of instructors eg. some will actually have some aviation experience - as opposed to the ones at 43 who has mainly never been further than the PE tma. Not saying there is anything wrong with low time instructors - they are good at teaching basics but a few hours with someone that has actually flown a commercial aircraft is worth a lot - especially towards the end of the COM training.

[birdlady]

Leon,
I read flyinginireland occasionally and happened to pop in there for a read this evening. For some reason the site wont take any replies on your topic :rolleyes: :rolleyes: and I remebered that you had posted on here about this cadetship.
This probably should not be posted on a public forum but Im in a daring mood and I am seriously pi:mad: off for lack of a better phrase. Also thought it might get a good debate going :E :E You do realise that the scheme that leon is talking of is costing 6 irish students 95 000 euro's to do ALL training at 43 apart from the IR test which ofcourse being JAA has to be done in JAA airspace. Once the course has been completed (frozen ATPL - 300 hours max) cityjet may or may not offer you employment. From my understanding ,and Leon by all means correct me on this, a substantial deposit is required.
Im not going to say anymore as its just going to get my blood pressure rising and its just not worth it but by all means feel free to comment. :E :E :ok: :ok:

[Truthteller]

I whent to 43 did the hole twin com if thing.
and its been 3 years and 5 months since i left.
I really enjoyed my time there and the training was very good, but thats not the problem!

When you leave there you are marked for life. As a nother 43 guy.
There are pilots out there on conracts at some companys that imediatly treat you like s:mad: t because you just hapen to do your training.

So be-awear of the mark:ugh:

[Truthteller]

JETwash

Please don’t generalize I know there are some arrogant numb nuts from 43,
But don’t treat them all like idiots give them a fear chance firs.
I when’t to 43, and did my eye’s go open when I left. I learned more about flying in the firs six months after I left than I did in the entire year there.

But unfortunately 4 years later and I still get the stigma from time to time.
Its is utter non-sens .


My opinion spoiled brats make arrogant pilots and there are a lot of those at the most expensive school in the country.

[Shrike200]

Bottom line, it's up to the individual to have the right attitude - you get good pilots from 43, as well as bad, just like any other flight school - although the syllabus at 43 is supposed to be fairly comprehensive, so they should have at least covered all the bases. To assume that somebody is rubbish because they trained at a certain flight school is just plain silly and premature - you at least have to get an idea of that particular persons approach to aviation, before you start getting all overexcited. Likewise, anybody with an attitude of 'I did my training at XXX flight school, so you can all lick my boots now' deserves a good kick in the pants. Again, it's down to their attitude.

My 2c.

[HappyFlyer]

Why does it always turn into a scrap on PPrune?

I have no special affiliation to any school. Although harsh I think jetwash has told alot of truths in his posting! I have also been exposed to alot of 43 products and honestly they do have an attitude.

Saying that I am also in the contract world and I dont agree that the old contract guys treat the 43's like crap! If anything the guys I have worked with have been absolute gentleman. I have learnt so much from these guys. Maybe the 43's could be more open to the idea that you can't learn everything in the circuit and on the way to PE!

Does it really matter what school you come from. When you leave the flying school, how much do you really know anyway? You have to realise that your training has only just begun. Trust me it, it never stops.

Good luck to all.

[Jlo]

After reading all the posts i have a few questions:
1. How many hours do you need to be regarded as a 'low-time' instructor? As far as i know none of the SAA Cadets are instructed by instructors with any less than 500 hours of instruction. And that is the MINIMUM requirement.They also have to be at least Grade II and are therefore mostly senior instructors.
"Flown with a couple of cadets who graduated from 43 in 2005. Not impressed. Low time instructors are trying teach advance skills - and failing miserably. I just call it the way i see it. The airline not too happy with 43 either!"3rd March 2006 22:36 REPTILE
Unlike many other flying schools, a new instructor at 43 has to work himself up in the system. he only teaches PPL's and after completing 4 of those, he can continue with the next phase, and so it continues. They are constantly being monitored by a quality control manager who has over 40 years of instruction experience. Failing miserably? I think they are doing very well considering some of the material they are given to work with. I don't know of any other school with such a good, structured system. Every hour flown has a specific exercise which has to be completed satisfactorily. No low-level flying with your mates to build your hours...

2. "Also heard rumours that SAA aren't entirely satisfied with the training and a couple of cadets were washed during their intership with SAX. " Flyer 14
The Cadets are trained up to Comm standard and they are passed by External DE's who are not involved with the air school. So they definitely meet Comm standard. That is 43's job done. Going onto a Dash 8 is a lot to ask of someone with a brand new comm. They will obviously require extra training. Any person would in that situation. How much did you guys know after 200 hours? You cannot teach someone to be an airline pilot in 200 hours. Experience is something that comes with time
3. As far as the attitude issue is concerned... I have had the unfortunate experience of having an arrogant student from another school swear at me and my students and making racist remarks while taxying behind us, on frequency at Lanseria... His PTT got stuck and didn't realise it. This continued for about 5 minutes. I'm not going to mention the school, because- guess what- it's not a very well-known school anyway. So nobody cares. But when it comes to 43... What i'm trying to say is that you will find arrogant people everywhere. It is not the instructor's job to teach a person something his parents should have done. We can try but in the end it is up to the individual.I completely agree with STRONG MEDICINE
"maybe the problems not the organisation but the pilot that trained there!"
STRONG MEDICINE
In conclusion i would like to say that no flying school is perfect and there is always room for improvement. We know that there is a world outside 43. But you have to start somewhere, and in my opinion 43 is the best place to have your basic flying foundation laid down.
:ok:

[reptile]

in my opinion 43 is the best place to have your basic flying foundation laid down.

Just a stab in the dark here - but are you employed by 43?

[Shrike200]

Guy!...Guy!.....(said with appropriate accent)

I suppose you had to have been there.

[pineteam]

Hi everybody :)

I am new member on this forum. I am a student in a business school . After reflexion, I am more and more interested to become a airline pilot:p .

I heard about 43 air school and read some positive comments:ok: . It seems to be a great school... But really expensive:ooh: lol.

I would like to ask you some questions :

-How can we integrate this school? By exams? Because my main problem is that my level in math is low...Will it be a problem?:sad:

-What is exactly the price for all the training period and how long is it?

- When the lessons start? In january?

That's all for the moment:E

You will notice that my english is not so good lol But I will do a training period of 6 months for my last year in my business school in an English country to improve it :O

Thanks in advance for your answers ;)

[pineteam]

UP please:ouch:

[Clarence Over]

There have been MANY posts on this forum with a wide variety of views on this subject. Read through some of the old posts and decide for yourself.

Air Mauritius is starting their cadet scheme there shortly- maybe you should find out more info from them in this regard and see what comes of it.

[GULF69]

out of interest....

43 Air School PA is the 2nd busiest flight school IN THE WORLD!!

69

[pineteam]

There have been MANY posts on this forum with a wide variety of views on this subject. Read through some of the old posts and decide for yourself.

Air Mauritius is starting their cadet scheme there shortly- maybe you should find out more info from them in this regard and see what comes of it.

Thanks for your answer. I just found one subject and there is no answer for my questions...:{ . Except one about the price 93 000 euros:p

[DawnTreader]

Hi everybody :)
My name is Greg, I was born im Mauritius Island, and I am new member on this forum. I am 22 years old and I am a student in a french business school in Paris. after reflexion, I am more and more interested to become a airline pilot:p .
Welcome to the forum Greg.

I heard about 43 air school and read some positive comments:ok: . It seems to be a great school... But really expensive:ooh: lol.
It is expensive. They are the biggest in the country and in Africa. Their approach to training is quite formal. They try to impose more than a shade of discipline. Think of it as a type of boarding school. Whether you would enjoy it there depends on you. If you learn quickly and don't mind a bit of discipline then it is the place for you.

I would like to ask you some questions :
-How can we integrate this school? By exams? Because my main problem is that my level in math is low...Will it be a problem?:sad:
They will ask to see your school results to get an idea of whether you will cope. I wouldn't say the academic level is as high as University, but there is a HUGE amount of information that you have to take in in a SHORT space of time. There are 8 separate commercial exams to write in only 1 week of exams. The school prepares you well for these, and standards are set HIGH in the regular tests so as to ensure you do your best in the finals. The PPL exams are written on computers at the base. If you don't pass these first time you can write again. If you mess up too many times they might ask you to leave. It only gets more difficult...
You do need maths. One of the books you get for the course is called "Maths for Comm" and it refers to a Standard 9 requirement- {from the old SA school system - which ended with Std. 10}. The ASA CX-2 flight computer is standard (but only post PPL level), as is the Casio Fx82 calculator. Chapters in the book are:- Simple Arithmetic; Simple Algebra & Simple Formulae; Cross Multiplication; Percentages; Vectors; Averages; Trig; One in 60 Rule {a rule of thumb based on trig} and finally, Interpolation {working out what the next or missing number should be in a column of figures}. Most of this is either for Flight Planning & Performance or Navigation. Speed is quite important. You don't want to end up 10 Km off course while you try and work out some calculations! If you feel Maths will be a problem, ask the school to send you the Maths notes and do some practise examples before you get there. Get the contact details from their website and send them a letter. Don't leave it too late because there is probably a long waiting list already.
A great asset is having Geography as a school subject!

-What is exactly the price for all the training period and how long is it?
Last time I looked it was roughly R1000 per hour of flying training (incl. fuel). Also more than R150 a day for accomodation (incl. food). They work on a system where you pay an initial deposit of around R15000 before you arrive. You then pay money in to your account to keep it in credit, and it will get deducted whenever you 'purchase' something - like all the notes, some shirts, exam fees etc. The school will give you an idea of estimated final cost via a an initial quote. Remember they will not know whether you need 3 hours to learn something new or just 2. The weather will also play a factor and keep you at the base a bit longer. Expect to be at 43 for a year at least to get your Comm.
- When the lessons start? In january?
They have several intakes during the year. I don't recall exactly, but the intakes are arranged something like January/April/July/October. This is so they can fill the class - and they expect each person in the class to progress at much the same rate throughout the course. It's about allocating time and resources.

That's all for the moment:E
You will notice that my english is not so good lol But I will do a training period of 6 months for my last year in my business school in an English country to improve it :O

Make sure your English is polished. The exam questions are difficult enough for native English speakers to understand as it is. Maybe they were written by a Greek person??

Thanks in advance for your answers ;)

[Jetstream_lover]

Gday
You could go to sie Luftwaffen 43 Cadetten Flughschule. Or you could save cash and go somewhere cool like Progress, FEDAIR etc and get the same Licence and have more fun same time.

Auf Wiedersehen

Dont be a party pooper!

Arnie

[DawnTreader]

Gday
You could go to sie Luftwaffen 43 Cadetten Flughschule. Or you could save cash and go somewhere cool like Progress, FEDAIR etc and get the same Licence and have more fun same time.
Auf Wiedersehen
Dont be a party pooper!
Arnie
German is not on the syllabus or I would recommend you go there for a refresher course :E

The school is not perfect, it's not Stalag Luft V(:= ), but is does have a reputation in the aviation world that will help you get employment when you leave.

Ex-inmates have a vested interest in encouraging the school to maintain high standards.

Flying is not a game and the students do not go there to have a ball. Like any other college, students socialise, play sport, swim and enjoy themselves in the pub. They also spend time moaning about facilities, staff attitude etc., but when they look back, it was all part of the '43 experience'. It made them a better pilot.

[Shrike200]

...but is does have a reputation in the aviation world that will help you get employment when you leave.

Thats debatable. I've also heard of rabid 43 haters (heard that from an excellent source, it's still baffling to me though) in the pilot community, but never met any personally. I went there, but you still need to be just as lucky as the next guy to get work - merely having gone to 43 won't get you a job. I don't know how it's viewed now though, perhaps things have changed. As for discipline - well, I'd just come from the military, so for me it bordered on a hippy commune in that regard! It's all relative.

But I had fun. I don't know if I'd do it again though, at the end of the day you can save a lot of money by not going there while still getting great results, as long as you remember that more is placed on your shoulders in terms of actively seeking knowledge and study material, and being disciplined and focused in each flying lesson you take.

[pineteam]

Thank you very much for all these information DawnTreader (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=143700) :ok: .

I will follow your advises;)

[Jetstream_lover]

Just to set record straight. I am in no means saying that 43 is good or bad, but implying that there are indeed many pilots in the South African aviation industry who have done very well who have not attended 43!

It is not always the institution that provides the result, more so the individual concerned.

[fluffyfan]

They will ask to see your school results to get an idea of whether you will cope. I wouldn't say the academic level is as high as University

I have heard this a few times, guys comparing Comm to University, having done both I can assure you a Comm is no where near university level (Engineering or any Maths related field)..........all you need to get a Comm is basic maths and lots of learning....thats it, no magic talent needed.

Why not try Progress flight Academy, Airline Pilots Training Academy (APTRAC)......both in Port Elizabeth, they are both full time live in training institutions and in my opinion will give you what you need at half the price, in fact, I think 43 is overated and overpriced..........shop around, there are also schools in Johannesburg and Cape Town which may interest you, 43 relies on there name alot but unless you are rolling in cash I would not bother with 43. For your information APTRAC is run by a SAA training captain with very nice equipment and standards, if you are interested in an Airline career I would go there.

[Shrike200]

I have heard this a few times, guys comparing Comm to University, having done both I can assure you a Comm is no where near university level (Engineering or any Maths related field)

Yeah, I wanted to comment on this too - there's no way a Comm is even vaguely in the academic league of an Engineering degree for example. Those who complain of sweating for a few CPL/ATP exams should try something serious at University. One test week later and you'll think the CAA exams are a joke.

And Fluffyfan's advice is good - it's tough to justify the (much) larger outlay at 43 when frankly Progress etc do a fine job too.

[Tokunbo]

Hi pineteam,
If it's of any relevance to what you're asking, CHC/Aero Contractors, which is probably the largest helicopter operator in Africa now send all their Nigerian sponsored ab-initio helicopter students to School 43, so I guess they rate it as a good school. I'm told that they're happy with the standard of the new pilots when they arrive back in Nigeria to go on to their conversions to the SA365 or S76.

[Woof etc]

Those who complain of sweating for a few CPL/ATP exams should try something serious at University. One test week later and you'll think the CAA exams are a joke.

I reccommend Partial Differential Equations 101 as a starter. :rolleyes:

[Shrike200]

I reccommend Partial Differential Equations 101 as a starter. :rolleyes:

My nemesis was Engineering maths (204 I think?), and Strength of Materials, also second year. Ugh, cold shivers again! I still consider the subjects to be impossible, and that everybody else bribed the lecturer behind my back to pass!

[DawnTreader]

Yeah, I wanted to comment on this too - there's no way a Comm is even vaguely in the academic league of an Engineering degree for example. Those who complain of sweating for a few CPL/ATP exams should try something serious at University. One test week later and you'll think the CAA exams are a joke.

And Fluffyfan's advice is good - it's tough to justify the (much) larger outlay at 43 when frankly Progress etc do a fine job too.

I didn't want to get to0 deep in the Uni - Comm comparison in my original reply.

I've also done University and Comm. I can only say it takes quite a different mindset to answer multiple choice questions. In an academic exam you can justify or even prove your answer is correct but with comm it is right or wrong. (In fact you can also be wrong even if you are 100% right.)

Also, I can assure you that at University you DO NOT get such a vast quantity of such diverse information to absorb in such a SHORT time. You also have longer than 7 days to complete 8 exams. The two require a completely different approach & preparation.:ugh:

[wheels up]

Seems the topic has changed???

Anyway having done both as well, no comparison. Studied for com in 1 1/2 month of evenings and weekends. ATP in about 3 weeks. Mech Eng took 4 years of hard graft. Com is a lot of material but its mostly memorising facts, not much analysis or interpretation and no deriving new results from understanding of the underlying principles.

Multiple guess is easy. In many cases you can work out the answer by a process of elimination. And you don´t have to write all the exams in a week.

That said it does take a lot of work to pass the com and ATPL exams, and is an achievement to pass them - but its not rocket science. Just perserverance.

[DawnTreader]

... And you don´t have to write all the exams in a week.
...
43 Airschool 'encourages' you to.:{
(That was on-topic:) )

[james ozzie]

I reccommend Partial Differential Equations 101 as a starter. :rolleyes:
Yep Woof, a PDEs course puts hair on your chest! Though seldom as a 101 - usually a 3rd year course. Puts one up in the circles of those who know how to correctly pronounce "Euler".

I recall a PDEs terminology "the Complete Primitive" - well I have long forgotten what this means but nowadays find it a handy term of abuse. Who says these courses have no practical application??

[Flyer14]

Here's my take on it. I've been to varsity and done the whole ATP thing.My view is that the Comm exams as well as the ATP exams itself alone are not equivalent to a degree. But the Com LICENSE as a whole IS equivalent to a 3 year degree and an ATP license can compare to an honours. Certainly if you consider the amount of time that universities are closed, removing those holidays, one could fit a 3 year degree in 2 - roughly the time to do a Com License and an Instructor Rating.

As for the 43 thing well anyone who tells you that training at 43 improves your job chances is trying to fool themselves and you. Companies want experience and hours. In the end it's the person, not the place that gets you the job. As to were you should go, well I would recommend Progress, Fedair, APTRAC, as well as some of the schools in Johannesburg. 43 has unfortunately become a bit of a sausage factory. Also in my view if you need someone else to keep you disciplined enough to complete your flying training then perhaps you shouldn't be flying in the 1st place.

Don't get me wrong 43 do get results but they can in no way compare to the likes of Adelaide Avaiation College, Oxford, Delta Connection, etc. My suggestion is you actually come down here and visit the schools you think have potential, don't just visit the website or rely on word of mouth. Just my opinion.

[philby737]

43 Airschool 'encourages' you to.:{
(That was on-topic:) )

:D couldnt agree more. 43 is over-rated and over-priced, unless you have a bottemless pit of cash you can get the same training elsewhere. I do not think that a 43 qualification gives you an additional advantage in the job market these days :ugh:

[DawnTreader]

You're right! :D

Have been hearing some horror stories about airline cadets getting preferential treatment over paying customers. :yuk: Airline training contracts tend to give flying schools some kind of arrogance. I'm sure no one would want to deal with that.

They aren't stories. The school definitely gives SAA priority. Their syllabus is different, they get the top instructors, the better (not the best :p ) accommodation block, an SAA rep visits regularly to check up and listen to complaints, priority when getting transport into town etc.. Also other privileges such as being allowed to organise the sports day. BUT There wasn't much noticeable favouritism when it came to flying slots.
Don't forget SAA PAYS MORE - and students have to pay it back.:ooh:

93 000 euros just doesnt' fall out of the sky! If you are spending that amount of money then how about Oxford Aviation training (http://www.oxfordaviation.net/ ) or Adelaide AC?

43 is too expensive I know. How did you get that figure?
Oxford doesn't guarantee a job either, despite all the blurb on their website. Much of your outlay would be accomodation in Oxford.


Don't believe anyone telling you that you will have a better chance of finding a job if you do your training at 43 than at any other flying school. It's plain :mad:

Disagree. 43 has a reputation. Would you take a pilot from XYZ Club (reputation unknown) or from 43 (reputation known). It's as fundamental as that.


My advice : If it's possible, go and visit the other schools mentioned above, some of them are also great. Some use Cessna 172 aircraft, the most popular single in the world, and the preferred training and rental choice of most pilots. Just because one doesn't train at 43 does not mean that they will be trailing behind their 43 counterparts. It's hours that counts whether/not you land a job.

It's possible to have have a million hours of nothing. All the hours at 43 are accounted for. There is no simple 'hour building'.

I suggest you try Air Mauritius' cadet training. Even though they train at 43 (:yuk), at least you are not paying for it!

Good luck hunting.
:ok:
LOL - I don't think they have many places. Can anyone give us an idea of numbers?

[birdlady]

I think someone has got the wrong end of the stick here. :\ Cityjet through the Irish Aviation Authority has approved 43 for a JAA course for their cadets at a price of 93 000 euros. :yuk: This is for essentially what is a frozen ATPL without type rating. :* :* 43 is expensive but not that expensive. This course is only available to irish nationals and ofcourse those with the dosh. :( :(

Im also of the school of thought that 43 is a waste of money so Im not going to go into that again. Greg, the fact that you speak french and if you work on your english, you will have a huge advantage when you finally come into the job market:ok: :ok: :ok:

Whatever you decide goodluck :ok: :ok:

[Smells like...]

Dawn Treader wise up. I think what Kobus meant was that it's the hours you get once you have finished your comm that count toward eventual jobs!!!
I did Comm at 43, and while doing "the long walk" at Lansaria nobody seemed to care what airschool i did my liscence at, just how many hors i had, and on what aircraft.
I mean seriously XYZ flight school may have an instructor who's been doing the job for 20 years, and can teach you a lot more, i'm sure, than the 21 year old instructor, who's biggest problem is squeezing his zits, that 43 may give you.
I also have a lot of friends who did their training at smaller less known schools who are very proffesional pilots flying some well respected companies.
The point is that an airschool is an airschool. The biggest differance is the price!!

[wheels up]

Tend to agree. Once you have got more than a couple of hundred hours no-one cares what school you went to. Then again, I think from a personal point of view it certainly makes your own life easeir to have a well structured training programme. But you don't have to pay a gazillion bucks for this.

[dingduck2]

Yeah ! join the AirForce instead :cool: :cool: :cool:
Get to fly cool airplanes , Discipline fairer than 43 school probably & the State pays for it.
I can't agree more, if you're paying for it you should enjoy it :)
no school is a guarantee to a job THERE ARE NO HARVARDS ,STELLENBOSCH OR CAMBRIDGE IN AVIATION. Trust us, we know...

[LinkLowy]

I have heard this a few times, guys comparing Comm to University, having done both I can assure you a Comm is no where near university level (Engineering or any Maths related field)..........all you need to get a Comm is basic maths and lots of learning....thats it, no magic talent needed.
Why not try Progress flight Academy, Airline Pilots Training Academy (APTRAC)......both in Port Elizabeth, they are both full time live in training institutions and in my opinion will give you what you need at half the price, in fact, I think 43 is overated and overpriced..........shop around, there are also schools in Johannesburg and Cape Town which may interest you, 43 relies on there name alot but unless you are rolling in cash I would not bother with 43. For your information APTRAC is run by a SAA training captain with very nice equipment and standards, if you are interested in an Airline career I would go there.
The only problem with this "captain" is that he won't hesitate to have you put in jail if you piss him off, effectively ending your career in SA before you even started it.
Just so you know

[kobus]

The only problem with this "captain" is that he won't hesitate to have you put in jail if you piss him off, effectively ending your career in SA before you even started it.
Just so you know

I don't mean for this thread to go off-topic, but, can you explain further, please?

[dalsurfer99]

hey pineteam

im actually also from mauritius and studied at 43 air school.... dont like chatting on the forums it causes too much "tension" sometimes so contact me at [email protected] if u want more details.... je parle le francais aussi si tu prefere....
dalsurfer

[dalsurfer99]

sorry pine forgot that email addresses dont come up.... so its
d a l s u r f e r 9 9 @ h o t m a i l. c o m......
cheers

[Spydee]

A friend sent me this from a current KQ internal newsletter :

"Kenya Airways has been training their cadet pilots at 43rd Air School for a number of years. It was clear from the outset that the Kenyan cadets were prepared to work very hard at achieving their goals and it therefore came as no surprise when they obtained very good academic results. This has, without exception, been the case with all the Kenya Airways cadets thus far at the school.

When 17 Kenyan cadets recently wrote their Commercial Pilot Licence (CPL) exams at the CAA Headquarters in Midrand, Johannesburg, they managed to pass 134 of the 136 papers written, at first attempt.

What made this even more remarkable was the fact that their average for the 136 papers was 91.6% - a full 4% better than the previous best result for a CPL group at 43rd Air School! Twenty-two of the exam results were an amazing 100%. When the two candidates that missed one subject each re-wrote a day or two later they got 96 and 100% respectively!

A senior official at the CAA noted that the group’s results was ‘truly remarkable’ and commented that as far as could be established, this was the highest average ever to be achieved by a group of students writing their CPL exams.

Our congratulations to the Kenya Airways students on this achievement. Also to Paddy Carolan, Kiewit Maré and LT Minnaar whose thorough lectures over a number of weeks, clearly paid dividends!"

[I.R.PIRATE]

but what makes me insane is when I am trying to book exams in my home country and I cant get a slot because the rest of the continent is filling the exam hall. Getting re-writes within a day or two...I have to wait a month or two. CAA needs to sort things out a little better for its own first. Maybe have a seperate exam hall for large foreign groups, cause trust me, when there is a group like this trying to write, you can just forget about being "awarded" a booking. They are not even going to use the priviliges of that licence here in SA, so CAA needs to prioritise, or at least ensure that residents of SA are afforded the same opportunities to book and re-write if necessary.:ugh: I know of folks who have had subjects lapse due to this bullsh1t. :=

[Gilksy]

Oh boy, alot of mixed feelings here.
I was at 43.

Was it expensive? Hell Yes.

Do SAA get preferential treatment? Maybe a bit, but not as much as is made out. (they don't get the best instructors since there aren't specialised SAAup to you who you want to instruct you.)

Do I think I got my Moneys worth? Yes I do.

Did I enjoy it? You bet.

Sure going to 43 won't guarantee you a job, but I do think it holds you in good stead with other past 43 students.

On a more personal note, the year I spent living, and studying at 43 was one of the best of my life.:)

[EtAF]

The only school in Africa, IMHO, that is worth going is Ethiopian Airlines flight school at Bole IAP in Addis Ababa. They are not a commercial operation and won't compromise their standards for money. It is a 22-month total imersion program and attrition rate is extremely high. It is taught by highly experienced pilots with thousands of hours behind them. Don't want to name nationalities but there are many from African countries who didn't make it at ETs flight school and ended up finishing up at 43rd.

[reptile]

Kiewit Maré and LT Minnaar whose thorough lectures over a number of weeks, clearly paid dividends!"

With LT and Kiewiet giving lectures, you can't go wrong. Worked with these gents in the SAAF - they know what they are talking about! (Sorry Paddy, never had the honour of working with you)

[reptile]

43 won't guarantee you a job, but I do think it holds you in good stead ....

Interesting point.........At my airline your initial training (up to CPL) is definately taken into account. And yes, 43 (for that matter Progress, etc.) will most certianly give you a higher score than uncle Billy with his Cherokee on the farm.

[Spydee]

ETaf,

The ET training school is good no doubt about it but to say it's the best is pushing it a little too far. KQ stopped sending their abinitios to the ET school because it's fairly inefficient i.e. they train at their own pace, very expensive and most of the abinitios who came back had problems online with KQ instructors when it came to landings until it turned out that during their twin training the instructor always landed the plane for fear of letting the student damage the prized twin.

[cornell]

until it turned out that during their twin training the instructor always landed the plane for fear of letting the student damage the prized twin.

Now that's the biggest nonsense I've heard in a long time.

[bond7]

Does anyone have any idea whether kQ is still recruitin students? :sad: n' if so whts their contact email?

[joyrider]

Is there any truth in the rumour that 43 are moving from Port Alfred to Bhisho airport? Have heard that the ILS there is going to be fixed too. Anybody know more?

[EtAF]

KQ stopped sending their abinitios to the ET school because it's fairly inefficient i.e. they train at their own pace, very expensiveWhen did KQ stop sending their cadets? I know couple of years ago they were still sending. With many ET pilots being pouched by the middle eastern airlines (esp. Emirates), they are now doing recruiting more than once a year and the AF has agreed to supply more intructors. They are not accepting foreign cadets that much anymore. Currently, the only foreign cadets are from an African country through intergovernmental cooperation.

inefficient?

depends on your own interpretation of the word "inefficient".

they are not profit minded commercial operation. Unlike other schools, their only goal is to produce competent pilots. If efficiency is measured by how many pilots you churn out, they are definitely inefficient compared with other schools.

and most of the abinitios who came back had problems online with KQ instructors when it came to landings until it turned out that during their twin training the instructor always landed the plane for fear of letting the student damage the prized twin.Whether you are referring to Single engine landing or only ME is not clear. I will adress them separately.

Single engine
After 22 month of training and 250 hours of flying (of which 110 hours of solo flying!!!!!!!), claiming someone can't land a plane is ridiculous. I know they give a leeway to foreign cadets but not much. If someone can't solo within 20 hours (MAX), they are thrown out of the school. Proper landing is required prior to going solo and the check out pilot is not going to sign-off unless the student knows how to land. The attrition rate is extremely high. That has gotten the ET's corporate management and the flying schools management at loggerheads many times.

Mulit-Engine
They only have two twins for training. I don't know much about the training on the twins but the hours given are small compared with single engine. I will make sure to check it out and will get back to you.

[pineteam]

Hi everyone :)

I am looking for a book to help me to prepare the courses and exams that we have at 43 Air School. DawnTreader (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=143700) speak about " maths for comm" but I didn't find it on Internet:{ .

Could someone give me the edition of this book? Or advise me another book to buy to practise the 8 separate commercial exams we need to pass when we integrate 43 Air School. I am not so good in maths.:p

Thanks :)

[Swift_Eagle_Jason]

Does anyone have any idea whether kQ is still recruitin students? :sad: n' if so whts their contact email?

Yes bond7, kq still are recruiting students. Your application has to be by ground mail. You need to be a Kenyan and you should have sat the Kenya Certificate of Secondary Examination and attained a B grade. Similarly you should be below 28 years of age and above 18 years of age.

Good Luck!

[Twinbo]

Hi there

I will be starting the PPL-course early next year.
I was wondering if anyone can tell me a bit about the enviroment and routines they follow.

Thanks guys :)

[JetJack]

Hello ,

i need a piece of information about 43 air school gradutes !
Is it easy for a 43 graduate to find a job ?

And one more additional thing regarding the ground school , does 43 offer a good training for the ground school ? heard that they have a distance learning program for the ground school with bristol , and the distance learing is a bit scary !

[oscaR22]

Hello all,
Finally going ahead and finishing my pilots licence. After full-time ppl training and hour building a few years ago I'm opting for a full-time ATPL ground school as opposed to Bristol and looking for any news/ stories from helicopter students who have attended the 43 Air School?

Other option at the moment is Northern Helicopters in Sweden, but price and weather conditions are a real attraction to 43.

Cheers

[Arik]

There's always Starlite Home (http://www.starliteaviation.co.za) in SA for chopper training which is definitely worth checking out!

[Bob3213]

"Is it easy for a 43 graduate to find a job ? " No.
Apparently, it counts against you if training has been done at 43.... Namibia and Botswana.... Most of the accidents that happened were pilot error - 43 graduates. Coincidence? :bored:

[PA-23_pilot]

Hi Bob

Very interesting statement regarding accidents by 43 graduates. I have done my PPL over there in 2001, and some advanced flying in 2002 and 2003.
43 became over the years very busy, I think they grew too fast.

Nevertheless, I earned many hours and experience at different schools: Maluti Air (2004 and 2005), Bevrick Air (2005), Pretoria Flying School (2006) and in the last two years I have been to a fantastic small flying school, Eagle Flight Academy, between Hartswater and Christiana. They have a private airfield, 2.5km long gravel strip, exellent accomodations and services. On top, the rates are more than competitive.

If someone is looking for a more personal and familiar atmosphere, then he should try this one...

Happy landings!
Thomas