Aer Lingus - Direct Entry Pilots [Archive]

Silver Tongued Cavalier

1st Mar 2006, 04:05

Firstly let me say that Half-day Henry is messing with you all and might have got a few false hopes up! ;)

Expansion Plan is awaiting Ministerial approval, and is dependant on privatisation

42 A320s
14 A330s
New LHR base

150 pilots need to be recruited by 2010
Interviews to commence in September

Not heard where the 150 figure came from???? And very much doubt interviews this Sep.

There are a lot of ifs and buts RE privatisation/expansion etc but at the moment we know for sure the only facts are that everyone at EI is working close to limits now, rostering is very tight, and there are allegedly a couple more A320's in the pipeline, not to mention 2 new A330's (29% Long Haul fleet expansion!!!) to be delivered mid 2007. To take it to 29 A320's and 9 A330's

New LHR base would probably be A330 to take advantage of an EU/US open skies deal and the decent number of slots EI has there. There are lots of crews overnighting in Kensington and Cork each night so bases in these could be a strong possibility, particularly Cork now, although at no extra cost to the company. The Shannon base idea didn't work out a few years back due to complications over relocation/house prices etc etc!!!

Before any new outside recruitment there are around 25 pilots (anyone have accurate figures?) away on unpaid leave, some of whom will not be back until 2008. And 43 cadets who were let go during training in Jerez , many of these have good jobs already, I suspect only half of these would want to rejoin EI? Anyone else have an estimate here?? High-flyer??

There are hardly any new retirements for the next 5 years as many senior guys have already gone early on the numerous exit packages offered recently. Similar to BA time to command for new joiners will be circa 12 years+ however they will be joining at the crest of a recruitment wave and most likely will be a Captain 7 years quicker than the guys at the bottom of the seniority list at present!! However if Mannions plan of 14 A330's and 42 A320's by 2010 comes to fruition then time to command will reduce significantly, that 100% expansion on long haul and 55% on short haul.

My own hunch is for outside recruitment for summer schedule 2007. Last time EI recruited DE Pilots it took anyone from fresh Oxford graduates with 150 odd hours, ex-military IAC and RAF, new frozen ATPLs from modular and self improver route, and both EI type rated and non EI type rated Airline Pilots from all over. It's a diverse and interesting bunch!!!

This was however in the good old days, 1999-2000, now the company will prefer minimal training cost, so obviously Airbus type rated and houred will have preference, then zero flight time candidates (no circuits) with 500 hrs jet??, then maybe some sort of serious self sponsored bonding scheme similar to Easyjet recruitment, for non type rated low houred candidates. Yes EI is similar to BA in that your face must fit the organisation rather than your previous jobs/qualifications. And your right, EVERYONE is in with a shot!!!!

The selection process 6 years ago used to be a multiple stage BA type affair but I predict it will be alot more "low cost" this time round!!!

As for the terms and conditions for new entrants, this will be one big fight, particularly the final salary pension issue.

IALPA is aware of the problems of B and C scales have caused at other airlines such as Cathay with regard to unity and Union effectiveness. At BA the imminent pension problems, will be compounded by their recently introduced C scale pension, and will have a profound impact in the outcome IMHO.

IALPA has agreed worse terms for new entrants before and it caused bad feeling for years amongst some. And I'd like to hope it won't happen again for all our sakes, but I feel the precedent might have already been set with the other Airlines and we'll all shaft ourselves!!!! :{

As said by st patrick, no EI pilot would be happy seeing new recruits join on a B scale for pay, and I don't think that will happen, good, but for the pension I'm not so optimistic. Just looking at the way the industry has gone the last few years, and indeed all the other pension schemes in the country/Europe!!!

Will IALPA shut down the National Airline again for days on end, to ensure a present day norm-shattering pension deal for people who haven't joined yet? I doubt it. Will be very interesting to see what Willie has in store for BA Pilots pensions though.

All in all, I predict new outside recruitment for EI in time for summer 2007 schedule, and the overall package to be slightly better than the current BA one for new joiners. :ok:

eire757

1st Mar 2006, 16:16

Great post! Thanks for taking the time to do it. All I have to do is get in now!
12 years to command :{ I hope it's worth it!

moomin

1st Mar 2006, 19:56

st patrick you must have a short memory. Do you not remember the pay deal post 911 where cadets at the bottom of the scale got 4% percent while captains much higher up the scale got as much as 22%! I remember getting 4.5%. The company spread the pot of money about so that they could get the vote through. Something like 60/40 if I recall. Divide and conquer.

PhoenixRising

1st Mar 2006, 20:50

And 43 cadets who were let go during training in Jerez , many of these have good jobs already, I suspect only half of these would want to rejoin EI?

I would say somewhere between 30-35 as an educated guess. I think you'll find that the majority will still want to return.

ryanride

1st Mar 2006, 21:19

Would only believe some of the things that EIRE 757 is saying !

eire757

2nd Mar 2006, 16:48

EIRE 757...
Did you hear this news from a reliable source. I've heard so many lies across these forums and from prospective employers its not funny anymore.
Is there any concrete to this 'rumour'?
I think the fact that I started the thread means that I am myself trying to find out if there is any truth to the rumours. I heard it from two ex- EI cadets. I have been working abroad for 5 years now and this is the first time I have heard anything even half reliable. Maybe its rubbish, maybe it's not. But it's worth asking.

eire757

2nd Mar 2006, 17:02

Would only believe some of the things that EIRE 757 is saying !

I only asked questions mate. I did't answer any of them! :hmm:

dlav

2nd Mar 2006, 19:42

Im hopefully fresh out of OAT in April '07. Does anyone know what sort of a relationship OAT has with EI? Id love to get a job back home. Any Job!

Have EI ever taken low houred pilots that weren't cadets?

Silver Tongued Cavalier

3rd Mar 2006, 03:44

eire757, thanks, I remember when I was looking to get a job, this site helped me so much, good to give a bit back! ;) And yes there's no harm in asking questions, just as long as people take the answers with a pinch of salt! Its a RUMOUR network!!!

moomin, yes that was Willie W, 60/40 divide and conquer classic! Good luck BA Pilots :sad:

PhoenixRising, thanks for you estimate, a bit higher than I thought. So that means around 25 unpaid leavers and say 35 ex-cadets to soak up before outside recruitment. Thats about 4 A320's worth of slack, give or take. 2 more A320's are due, and 2 A330's are due. Everyone working hard in EI right now, this summer will be very interesting!!!

dlav, EI has had about 50 cadets through Oxford since 1999-2001. And yes EI has during this time taken graduates of Oxford as Direct Entry Pilots ($$$'s) with minimum hours.

ElNino

3rd Mar 2006, 15:58

There are ex-cadets at Ryanair, Easyjet, Cityjet, Aer Arann, BA, Monarch, Flybe, Thomsonfly, GB, Baby, to name some off the top of my head. Obviously people will have their reasons for staying or returning, but it doesn't take a genius to work out which of these companies offer an inferior overall package to Lingus and thus, make a good guestimate as to who will or won't return. I'd say the previously mentioned figure of 30-35 would be about right. That said, if the package ain't good enough, that figure will reduce substantially. Bear in mind most of the cadets now have substantial jet time, and some have commands, so they have plenty of options and are far beyond being starry-eyed low-timers.

st patrick

5th Mar 2006, 14:13

Silver Tongued Cavalier - when did we ever recruit "in time for" ?!!!!!

Moomin - true enough but at least you can look forward to those big jumps in salary not to mention the effect they will have on that gold plated pension. Come to think of it, at worst you are starting on a series of serious increments next month. The sun will come out tomorrow !!!!

boeing 737 fan

24th Apr 2006, 15:22

Hi everyone just wondering what the hours,the roster and the pay was like at aer lingus. Thanks for your help

dlav

28th Apr 2006, 17:01

anyone?????

Bearcat

29th Apr 2006, 07:10

they'll work you like dogs.....

eire757

19th Jun 2006, 23:40

I hear some/all of the cadets have been called back, some of which have left flying and will need to get an MEP/IR courtesy of the company. True? Any more news on recruitment?

Sky_Captain

1st Jul 2006, 04:05

Hi All,

As some may know Aer Lingus have recalled their old trainees, and plenty I know of are returning back to EI within the next few coming weeks. After that all I hear is that a big enough recruitment drive is on for drivers young and old :D

Question is, whats their requirements and what are they offering???

Does anybody have any info??

Many Thanks,

S.C.

thebrother

1st Jul 2006, 14:02

A colleague in EI tells me that they are short 27 Capts and 26 FOS to fly the A330 line from April 2007. There are some yawning gaps in roster cover in Aug and Sep 06 but they hope to bend or ignore IAA on this problem. They will be looking for type rated or easy conversion guys for these positions. Airbus type rating training is very difficult to buy right now.

For the smaller Airbus - partic A321 they are looking for 24 Capts and 31 FOs to cover deliveries, retirements and ongoing shortages. They may hire more in Nov.

They called back the last of the cadets on Thursday who they had previously dumped. They mostly got letters on Thursday last and many of them are with Ryanair. They are all expected to come straight back.

A friend's son is one of the Cadets at Ryanair who is jumping back to EI. My friend pleaded with his son to stay at FR where he was due to get his command soon. But the young fella has dreams of wearing the Shamrock and swanning around JFK. I wonder who will be first to get dumped in the future when Aer Lingus hits a rocky patch!

As someone who used to work for Aer Lingus and is a happy pensioner I think the new pay deal and extra pension for me is great - but commercial suicide. While Willie took the hard decisions - it seems DM is giving away the shop to the unions ahead of an Irish election.

Regretfully I would have to back Ryanair every time to beat the bejaysus out of EI in Dublin.

INLAK

1st Jul 2006, 18:07

Boy

2nd Jul 2006, 11:08

As far as I can make out every single fact posted above by thebrother is wrong. No surprise then that all of the judgments are, at best, questionable and that some other posts he has made in the past share the same characteristics.

How can somebody come along here and confidently annonce things as "fact" - without a single word of qualification - when even a basic familiarity with the matters at hand demonstrate he is talking hogwash?

Looks like thebrother is another of those who make up for their ignorance by making emphatic and confident assertions. Trouble is, that does not make them true, nor does it make him "informed".

thebrother

2nd Jul 2006, 18:27

Boy - I think you would like to believe I am wrong but my analysis is the same as today's Sunday Times and Irish Sunday Independent. Aer Lingus has been hijacked by Irish unions who are managing to turn back many of the changes made by WW. That is the reality. Paying all your staff lots of extra money to allow you to partially float the company is not exactly wise business practice.
1. Aer Lingus does not have enough pilots to fly the line this August.
2. They are seeking type rated A330 pilots to get around the shortage of type rating training resource available. You may not like this binning of "seniority" but what you would like to happen and what is happening are entirely different matters.
3. The Aer Lingus "Seniority" means last in and first out. When the renewed waste comes back to haunt EI the first to lose their jobs will be the "Cadets" who are just returning from other airlines. That is the reality - what you imagine life to be Boy - well that I guess is just Siptu or other trade union propoganda.
It is all fine and dandy wandering around Dublin with your Shamrock badge and the funny EI Hat - but where will that get you when the next downturn hits EI in 2008 and you lose your job and you hold a worthless A330 rating.
Sure SIPTU and other unions have got EI pilots some jam today but I think most people realise that it is not sustainable.

Bad Robot

2nd Jul 2006, 19:17

Worthless A330 rating!!!:confused:

I don't think so, with the Airbus CCQ, this probably makes it the best set of ratings to have EVER.:ok:

BR.

thebrother

2nd Jul 2006, 22:41

I suspect they cannot all be wrong. Details on Aer Lingus Union deal and the suggested strike on next Thursday are from Irish newspapers here:-
http://www.sbpost.ie/breakingnews/breaking_story.asp?j=3987825&p=398784x&n=3987917&x=
http://www.unison.ie/business/stories.php3?ca=80&si=1645536
Aer Lingus flies off course with unrealistic pay claims
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2095-2252084,00.html

Boy

2nd Jul 2006, 22:49

thebrother - you have changed your message - I merely referred to the multitude of incorrect "facts" to which you made reference. You have now changed the subject to union-bashing. You even had this to say about your own pension: As someone who used to work for Aer Lingus and is a happy pensioner I think the new pay deal and extra pension for me is great .... eh... if you are an existing pensioner how does the new deal apply to you and where does the extra pension come from? Also, did you not previously claim to be a civil servant ... so, where exactly are you coming from (apart from the anti-union and "no pensions for existing employees" stance)?

Now just remind me .... what is it that is printed at the bottom of each pprune page ... As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent.

HotelGym

3rd Jul 2006, 01:34

Don't really want to get into the whole argument about the union/pension stuff. However am very interested in hearing why the A330 rating is or would ever be useless? With the shortage of pilots at the moment the 330 rating alone will get you a job on just about any Airbus type, so how is it useless? Obviously a statement from someone who spent their career behind a desk and never did more than look out the office window at a 330 on the ramp!

atse

3rd Jul 2006, 08:54

thebrother said something above that is rather intriguing but they hope to bend or ignore IAA on this problem. Apart from the issue as to whether or not thebrother's facts are correct, it is interesting to see such a comment about Aer Lingus. He not only claims to know precise pilot figures, but he can tell us in advance that the normally compliant Aer Lingus is going to "do a Ryanair" and out-manoeuvre the IAA in some way. All rather interesting from a "former Aer Lingus employee" ... who would presumably be aware that Aer Lingus was, until only a few weeks ago, claiming a substantial pilot surplus! Curious or not?

milehighdriver

3rd Jul 2006, 09:37

It's a proven fact of life, that people looking in from the outside, generally haven't a clue as to what is actually happening inside. thebrother just happens to be another one of these people. He may have have been a former employee of Aer Lingus, but he certainly hasn't a clue about the Flight Ops side of the company.

Even before the whole issue of Privatisation raised it's head again this year, the company was heading for problems due to its insistence of a supposed pilot surplus. There is a major shortage of pilots, hence the belated attempt to entice the cadets back. A few have been working for Ryanair, Cityjet and Aer Arran, but most have been working for others. Some have even resigned from BA to return home. Not surprising, when you look at the conditions elsewhere. We might be working upto the flight time limitations nowadays, but at least we have a decent salary, the best pension in the business and one base. Command at Ryanair might sound great, but as those in the industry know - this comes at a price!

I'd love to know how thebrother thinks were going to be 'binning' our seniority agreement! This is the cornerstone of our working life. It affects our pay, working conditions etc.. Flight Ops priority is to crew up the A330, taking into account the new aircraft arrivals. These will be crewed in seniority. Any new recruits cadets or otherwise will end up on the A320/1. Period!

As regards wandering around Dublin with a funny hat and a worthless A330 rating - don't make me laugh. Apart from the fact the the A330 is one of the best ratings anyway, being able to be CCQ in a short time makes it even more attractive. There are loads of jobs out there for A330 type rated guys now. Not that many EI guys would be bothered going elsewhere though - non of us could afford the drop in pay or working conditions. And don't even mention the pension side of things. Thank god we have IALPA and not BALPA looking after our pension.

Finally, I'd love to know how they are going to 'bend or ignore the IAA on this issue'. Whilst the IAA might have a less than perfect reputation. They aren't complete idiots! Unlike some people making anonymous contributions on this forum!

CIPO

3rd Jul 2006, 12:27

There will be flying pigs and blue moons before anyone walks into the Shamrocks directly onto the A330.............;)

dlav

3rd Jul 2006, 16:40

Please can anybody give me some information about the T+Cs at EI? Salary, Roster, days off, staff travel etc.

Would really love to find out a little bit more.

Many thanks
dlav

st patrick

4th Jul 2006, 00:12

EI currentl require about50 additional pilots to operate 2007 schedule. approx 36 ex cadets returning so that leaves a hole of about 14 pilots all of whom will join as 320 copilots on the bottom of the seniority list (thebrother is full of s*!:e). As to whether these will be contract(allowed by agreements) or direct entrys is anybodys guess.

Rosters are published 4 weeks in advance and copilots on the 320 are working close to 850 hours per year. Leave equates to almost 7 weeks for a new joiner. 8/9 days off every 28. Performance pay/overtime paid per hour over 520 per year - just in time for Christmas too! Not sure of starting salary - approx 50K euro I think plus company pension contributions.

With the rapid expansion planned, the first new joiners can expect the 330 (or its replacement) in about 3 years.

dlav

5th Jul 2006, 15:42

Thank you St Patrick, I have a few more questions aswell if somebody could take the time to answer.

What is the set up with the A330? ie - will you be on that fleet permenantly or is it a case of one long haul trip/month say, and the rest of the month on the 320? (a similar set up to most uk charter outfits and soon BMI)

Whats the atmosphere like at EI? Good place to be? Happy flying?

Management approachable?

Once again, thank you

dlav

milehighdriver

5th Jul 2006, 16:37

dlav,
Unlike most UK charter airlines, there is no mixed flying within Aer Lingus. I doubt this will change for the foreseable future. This also tends to suit most people - some prefer Europe and other prefer drinking state-side (& now the desert!).
The A330 is crewed purely on seniority. There is a big difference between the lifestyle on Europe and the A330. Europe is considerably busier, and hence most crews are maxing out on the hours. The A330 now is operating to Malaga and Nice in addition to the US and Dubai. It seems like A330 crews are approx 750 hrs per year give or take!
The atmosphere at EI is like most companies at the moment, in a state of transition. If the privatisation finally goes ahead this autumn, then big changes will occur over the next few years. According to the CEO, long haul will be expanded dramitically, which should make for some interesting night stops. Europe will also see some dramatic expansion.
Being a relatively small operator, you have the advantage of knowing virtually all of the crews. Unlike the likes of BA etc, your a name and not a number.
Flight Ops managment are very approachable, and training side of things is excellent. Nobody is trying to catch you out here. If your upto par with the standards and get on with your job, then life is easy. As regards the management from the HOB, then thats a different story and a thread on its own.
Its not paradise here, but as other who have left EI - it certainly isn't easier or better on the other side of the fence.

dlav

5th Jul 2006, 18:59

Thanks mate, just what I was after :ok:

st patrick

6th Jul 2006, 16:26

The jobs you saw for A320 based in Dublin are probably with Eirjet. If and it is a big if, EI use contract pilots they will probably use Parc as they used to own them and have used their services in the past, by the way EI would only be looking for contract co-pilots, they never have employed contract Captains or taken direct entry Captains. As regards being a non-national, that is not a problem as long as you have "the right to live and work in the EU". We have French, Dutch, American, Canadian, Kiwi, Finnish, Scots as well as loads from the UK ( sorrry if I left anyone out!) flying with us.

I`d suggest that you fire in an up to date CV to the personnel department, Address should be on the website. Best of luck!!

dlav

6th Jul 2006, 22:44

Just one more, honest! What is the average time for a command? :ooh: :ok:

worldwidewolly

7th Jul 2006, 08:10

thebrother,

I am going to stick my neck out here and say you are disengenuinous (forgive my spelling). Your friends son seems to be far wiser than his parent.
Thats why I think you talk bollo*.

If your friends son is an EI cadet (flying with Ryanair) he is probably in Dublin, he would be due his command, true. What would also be true is that he is being held back for the past 2 yrs. and not given his command as Dublin is frozen. He would also not have recieved a pay rise for a few years. He would have his sector pay severely cut. He would have his medical payment taken away, loss of liscence, he would have had to pay for his 737-800 type rating. He would be randomly been subjected to abusive threats from management.

All in all he would have been out of pocket by about €45k for the past 2 years. True. Add it all up, don't forget the type rating.

It seems to me like the kid has far more sense than daddy.

Getting back to my first point.
You see, I don't think this friend 'Daddy' exists at all.

You seem to me like a RYR management type spinning the usual bullsh1t.

st patrick

7th Jul 2006, 09:13

Dlav, How long is a piece of string?! hard to say. I am guessing that if the planned expansion goes ahead(and yesterdays dail vote were certainly a step in that direction), You are probably looking at 5 years if you are one of the first to join.

milehighdriver

7th Jul 2006, 09:14

As regards time to command? How long is a piece of string?
This has varied dramatically over the years, ranging from approx 5-6yrs right upto approx 17yrs. Whilst there was a period of heavy recruitment several years ago, including a mix of cadets and DEP's - there has been none since 2001. The company needs pilots yesterday, and the recalled cadets are just the start. The planned expansion of long-haul and the continued growth of routes on europe will obviously require more pilots.
All the A330's will have proper rest area's (existing ones to be retro-fiited). This in itself implies heavy crews to new long haul destinations. Heavy means more pilots. Therefore time to command will reduce.
But at the end of the day, who actually cares about time to command? As an FO, I actually earn more than captains elsewhere, including those with a harp on the tail! I have better working conditions and a pension. Unlike, the likes a Ryan, Easy etc - Aer Lingus is a career airline (if there is such a thing nowadays?) I have plenty of friends elsewhere, some who even opted to join these airlines, and have since moved on.
To some, command is the be all! Once the novelty of flying a shiny jet 900hrs per year wears off, the most important thing in life becomes lifestyle, followed by perhaps money of course. You'd be surprised at how many senior FO's on the A330 have turned down command on the A320. The increase in pay from a senior FO to a junior Captain isn't that great, whilst the difference in lifestyle is huge.
Bottom line is if your after the left-seat and four stripes within a couple of years, head elsewhere. That said though time to command within Aer Lingus will reduce significently over the next few years.

milehighdriver

7th Jul 2006, 09:16

st patrick,

Well, you beat me there!!

st patrick

7th Jul 2006, 20:10

Milehighdriver - I thought I heard an echo !!!!!!!!!!

captwannabe

9th Jul 2006, 15:23

Are Emirates thinking about buying shares in Aer Lingus? Has anyone got more information? What do the pilots think about this?

suasdaguna

10th Jul 2006, 10:35

is the rumour true that AL pilots are working harder than dogs and have split days off all the time with no sequence just lates rammed into earlies? ehh safety issues? Buddy of mine is keen to join if they recruit but from what I see it looks terrible. Surely this cant be true as if it was surely the the AL guys would be moaning on certain websites???? enlighten us..

dlav

10th Jul 2006, 16:24

Much appreciated chaps. Great minds think alike :)

Mile High Driver - Couldn't agree more, but its nice to have a rough idea :ok:

Cheers

dlav

st patrick

26th Jul 2006, 10:59

Suas, the lads and lass` are indeed working their little figers to the bone - well a lot of them anyway. i`d say they are too busy to moan on websites but it doesn`t stop them in ops!! The main problem is that the rosters are still manually written and there is a high turnover of personnel in crew scheduling which seems to result in requests being ignored in the rush to get the schedule crewed. If you put in a request you can be given split days of in order to grant that request, even if you have done 6 days before, or have 6 days after. "Its not that we are short of pilots - we just have too many flights"! (alleged to have been said by a managment type):O

flyerire

26th Jul 2006, 11:09

Eh, i don't think so, if you have too many flights to fill, that means that you ARE short of pilots, hence the impending recruitment drive!

jebus

28th Jul 2006, 06:53

Aer Lingus is one of the best airlines in the world to work for. Pay, working conditions and opportunities are first class.
The salary and allowances are excellent. The roster is stable, days off are guaranteed, and leave is relatively generous(though somewhat problematic). Travel concessions are also a major plus, with an excellent worldwide network and ease of access to them.
Those returning cadets will appreciate that. As Milehighdriver said, the seniority agreement is the cornerstone of a pilots life in Aer Lingus. It will never be allowed to be diluted. Anyone thinking they could swan in as a captain on the A330 had better look elsewhere.
Time to command quoted by all is rather generous. I think more realistic would be 8-10 years, but as was said earlier, its not a great concern for co-pilots in ei.

thebrother should be largely ignored. He knows not of which he speaks. :rolleyes:

TolTol

28th Jul 2006, 12:21

According to ppjn, the cadets that have been brought back have fulfilled AL's requirements. So looking bad for us low houred guys:(

milehighdriver

28th Jul 2006, 20:08

The cadets are just the start. Thirty odd cadets aren't going to help solve the shortage of pilots. With new aircraft arriving soon and the planned privatisation loomimg there's certainly going to be a queue forming soon. As regards low hours, who knows? You'd think they'd prefer airbus guys/gals, but in today's market, there probably aint a whole bunch out there that would fit the Aer Lingus profile. After that, I'd imagine if your face fits then your in with a chance.

Solstice

28th Jul 2006, 21:42

D'ont be too worried about the face fitting. AL genuinely has every type of face, with guys/gals from every background. Airbus rating is probably an advantage but definitely wont be a must I'd imagine. There is also a proven track record of taking pilots with very low hours. Yeah, the competition might be strong when they do advertise, but any guy/gal who is really keen and most importantly down to earth stands as good a chance as any, regardless of hrs/rating.

suasdaguna

31st Jul 2006, 08:01

jebus

1st Aug 2006, 13:00

I'm well aware. You'll see I chose my words carefully! ;)

corsair

5th Aug 2006, 22:36

i just have to pick you up here.....the current rostering is appalling...lates rammed into earlies....split days and no life style. We are running out of hours and it is creaking at the seams re continuity.

Hence the need for more pilots. I for one would love to fly for Aer Lingus. It was THE job to get for my generation in Ireland. I too want to wear the shamrock wings, buy a house in Malahide and join the yacht club. Sigh:cool:

The trouble is my name isn't Feargal, Connor, Grainne or some other Irish middle class name and I never could get my tongue round the mid atlantic Hiberno English that all EI pilots seem to use. :{

Ok I exaggerate and I know it's not all rosy in the walled garden. But I think that reputation in itself will attract applicants not least from Irish ex-pats working abroad right now. It certainly will attract my application but I feel I have more chance of winning the lotto.

Aer Lingus I think still has remnants of the old glamour that was attached to airlines like Pan Am. (Probably not a good example, I know). Aer Lingus was a great company to work for once.

dlav

6th Aug 2006, 08:45

buy a house in Malahide and join the yacht club

ive got a canoe if that will help me......:} :ok:

suasdaguna

7th Aug 2006, 16:17

corsair, this is a forum for adults not children.:=

corsair

21st Aug 2006, 19:26

Oh, :{ I couldn't be a child if I can remember when working for Aer Lingus was glamourous to the uninitiated. In fact I couldn't be a child if I can remember when working for any airline was glamourous. :hmm:

Now as it's way past my bedtime I'm off to beddie byes. If you are cruel to me again I will tell Danny was suasdaguna really means:p You wait:=

Bearcat

21st Aug 2006, 21:40

nice one corsair!

expect recruiting from Jan on i reckon. currently ex jerez cadets going thru training....when they are done it will be open season re recruiting.:ok:

S-crew'd

23rd Dec 2006, 12:56

Aer Lingus are advertising for direct entry pilots for the 320 based out of DUB.. details here (http://www.flyaerlingus.com/cgi-bin/obel01im1/Corporate/display_news.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1979833295.1166881496@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccgaddjjlihildcefecfigdffgdfkh.0&P_OID=-8057&Category=0&NEWS_OID=536886133)

Requirements start at:

IAA or JAR- FCL ATPL (or Frozen ATPL).
Current Class 1 Medical Certificate.
Permanently eligible to live and work in Ireland with an unrestricted worldwide passport.
Priority will be given to those applicants who hold a current A320 type rating and have at least 500 hours on type and 1000 hours in total.(If the above link fails go to www.aerlingus.com (http://www.aerlingus.com) > About Us > Careers & Vacanices)

pipertommy

23rd Dec 2006, 18:15

Hi what is the recruitment process ?Tried a search but no up to date info?Thanks

Cloud Chaser

23rd Dec 2006, 19:41

Essential Requirements:

To be considered for a position as Aer Lingus Direct Entry Pilot, applicants must be able to meet the following essential criteria:
IAA or JAR- FCL ATPL (or Frozen ATPL).
Current Class 1 Medical Certificate.
Collection & Drop-off of Aer Lingus Staff.
Permanently eligible to live and work in Ireland with an unrestricted worldwide passport.

Anyone clarify what the third point means?

iae2500

23rd Dec 2006, 20:08

No idea what the 3rd point means.
I wonder if there would be alot of interest in this, Dublin is an expensive place to live and times are uncertain in Aer Lingus, and considering the pay on joining ( as per PPJN ) most guys who would have the minimum requirements would be most likely flying outside of Ireland and for better money. I am guessing this will attract more locals then anything!
Am I wrong?? All recruitment is good however for any job hunters.

hawkwing

23rd Dec 2006, 21:01

cloud chaser,
was wondering that myself,
to take a guess, it may mean that you have a driving licence so as you can drive crew vans/cars to and from apron,
just a (not so educated) guess.

gblen

24th Dec 2006, 08:56

Im gonna go way out on a limb here and guess the collection and drop off of staff bit is a mistake. Probably from an ad for operations staff or something!

VFE

27th Dec 2006, 13:24

A mate of mine who's a SFO on the A320 with a UK carrier had his interview on the monday, the sim check the next morning and was offered the position that afternoon. He has over 500 hours on type and is originally a DUB resident.

VFE.

INLAK

27th Dec 2006, 17:01

The 3rd point is a typo. Just can get the staff these days....sheesh!

iae2500

27th Dec 2006, 20:43

VFE, Any chance you could ask your mate what profile was involved in the sim check and interview??

CarbHeatIn

27th Dec 2006, 21:08

Was sim check on Airbus sim?

squawkident.

27th Dec 2006, 21:47

If you check the top message of thi thread, you'll realise that the 3rd requirement wasnt actually there

Cloud Chaser

28th Dec 2006, 12:24

It was on the Aer Lingus website, but I see it has been removed, guess it was just a typo. For clarity here it is in full:
Aer Lingus Recruitment
Direct Entry Pilots - Dublin Based
As Aer Lingus continues to grow and expand we are adding additional A320 and A330 aircraft to our fleet in 2007. This will allow us to increase frequency on existing routes, expand our network to serve new routes and offer a greater choice of destinations to our customers.
As a result we now have a requirement for suitably qualified co-pilots to join our Flight Operations team based at Dublin airport.
These positions are available immediately. The successful candidates will initially operate on our short-haul routes, operated by A320 aircraft, on European flights from Dublin Airport. As these are permanent vacancies there will be ample opportunities to move onto our A330 long haul fleet and for command over time.
Applications are now being sought from rated and non-rated first officers. Priority will be given to those applicants who hold a current A320 type rating and have at least 500 hours on type and 1000 hours in total.
Essential Requirements:
To be considered for a position as Aer Lingus Direct Entry Pilot, applicants must be able to meet the following essential criteria:
IAA or JAR- FCL ATPL (or Frozen ATPL).
Current Class 1 Medical Certificate.
Permanently eligible to live and work in Ireland with an unrestricted worldwide passport.
Key Competencies:
Excellent communication and interpersonal skills.
Fluent in English, both spoken and written.
Strong leadership potential with well developed teamwork skills.
A broad awareness of our customers' expectations.
Self motivated, flexible and adaptable with a positive attitude to change as part of a low fares airline.
If you are interested in applying for this position, please send your C.V, with full details of your training, licences, flying hours, employment record and notice period, to [email protected] To ensure that your application reaches us promptly please type "Direct Entry Pilot Recruitment" in the subject line.
Due to the high volume of applications we receive, only those candidates that best meet our criteria will be progressed and receive a reply.
Thank you and good luck with your application.
Aer Lingus is an equal opportunities employer

dlav

31st Dec 2006, 20:11

Anybody been called for an interview? If so, what was your experience?

Any info greatly appreciated.

Happy New Year to everyone seeking their first job, we might just get our break :)

dlav

CarbHeatIn

2nd Jan 2007, 13:36

Thanks for the info. What's your experience? Airbus rated?
Good luck:ok:

liam murray

2nd Jan 2007, 15:19

Hi all,
Can anyone give me any more infromation on the aptitude and psychological tests at EI. I have not sat any type since school (12 years).
As a low hour ppl, I would love to continue training ,get type rated ect,
but It would be a shame to discover I have an I.Q like homer or that I am nuts(or both).
Tnks

FL800

10th Jan 2007, 20:48

Any updates for this thread, its gone very quite. Has anybody been called for interview and/or a check recently. The web site is still accepting applications.

yak-yak

11th Jan 2007, 09:55

The thread may have gone quiet but not the recruitment process..

Bad Robot

11th Jan 2007, 17:48

I sent my details off a couple of weeks ago but nothing heard so far.

I take it all the applicants are rated on the 320?
Are there any non rated Pilots getting called for interviews ?

BR.

skywaytoheaven

16th Jan 2007, 11:13

Sorry BR don't know.
Another question: Does anyone know
a) Time to Command
b) Time to transfer to the long haul fleet, and do you fly A320/330 when transferred.
Thanks.

green-dot-speed

16th Jan 2007, 13:34

For those who have been called in for interview...how much time from application to the call?

Thanx guys
G.D.S.

Dream Land

16th Jan 2007, 15:06

How many qualified applicants could there be that have a right to work in Ireland? :confused:

skywaytoheaven

16th Jan 2007, 15:27

I would think quite a few, with passports from EU member states, thats roughly 27 different countries!

Dream Land

16th Jan 2007, 15:37

Roger :ouch:

Lee Frost

16th Jan 2007, 19:25

I hear from early to mid April the non-rated applicants will begin to get assessments. This is just from one source close to recruitment so don't read into it too much.

Some recent Gecat SSTR applicants are also being screened at present.

LF

CLEAR4T/O

17th Jan 2007, 08:23

Hey Lee,

That info on the GECAT guys/gals is interesting. Is this from a good source??

Cheers

CLEAR4T/O

17th Jan 2007, 08:55

Thanks Gator,

Straight from the horses mouth then...

I'll sit tight for the time being and wait for that phone to ring!!!!

Cheers

Bearcat

17th Jan 2007, 10:02

some one mentioned time to cmd....a while says me as there is a huge raft of F/O's who have 7 plus yrs experience and these folk are in headlights for command so their vacant spots are now for grabs over time.

There'll be no quick commands....you'll do your time like everyone else.

Count von Altibar

17th Jan 2007, 11:29

People I know in EI who joined in 1991 still don't have commands. Of course, if a huge expansion is on the way then things can change rapidly.

skywaytoheaven

17th Jan 2007, 12:22

People I know in EI who joined in 1991 still don't have commands. Of course, if a huge expansion is on the way then things can change rapidly.

over 15 years to cmd, mmm thats alot of "clear right's"! and walk arounds in the rain! Good luck to all applying.

Any info on time to 330?

snaga

17th Jan 2007, 12:47

I don't know who the Count knows in EI, but it sounds like they may a bit on the slow side! Commands for people I know have reached 1996-7.

CarbHeatIn

17th Jan 2007, 17:24

FOs on the 330 have put off command cause they like the lifestyle on the 330and a command would mean a move back to the 320.

AFAIK there is no mixed fleet flying in EI.

manuelvi

27th Jan 2007, 17:10

Hi All.
Does some of you guys knows how many F/o Aer Lingus require at the moment and the salary expectations,roster and bases for new hired one?
Tks

Cheers

MV

Somos

29th Jan 2007, 17:02

Hi.
In the same way than Manuelvi, anyone knows ?
And time transfert to A330 with significant Hours on the A320 (1500H). i'll appreciate to get a roster as well to know if we can commute with UK or France ? :ok:
thks

Aussie

5th Feb 2007, 06:57

Is it realistic for a newbie Commercial pilot with 350hrs non rated to get a gig?

Bad Robot

10th Feb 2007, 11:21

What is the Sim profile then?
Is it just basic handling, ILS, G/A, any single engine work, is Auto Pilot in or out, is Auto Thrust in or out, any minor emergencys/ ECAM drills?
What engines is used CMF56 or IAE V2500s?
Many Thanks.:ok:

BR.

manuelvi

10th Feb 2007, 15:15

This is the email i used too and worked fine.
Can it be that they closed the applications?
MV

lorcandaly

11th Feb 2007, 06:21

Hi all

Just wondering what the current situation with aerlingus is? I see that they have started advertising for a DUB base on the website and are accepting applications with preference to type rated pilots-HOWEVER they have said on the website that they will acceot applications from applicants with a fATPL...My question is how likely is it that they will take low hour pilots straight out of an FTO with plus/minus 250 hours :ugh:

dlav

11th Feb 2007, 10:24

I heard they took an OAT APP grad with similar hours to yourself. Fingers crossed :ok:

lorcandaly

11th Feb 2007, 17:16

Really? Thats great to hear-is that true though do you know>Would be great to hear any more opinions on the matter or similar job offers-to a multi IR fATPL pilot with low hours (250). Cheers Lorcan.

dlav

11th Feb 2007, 17:47

Hi Lorcan,
I heard it from the staff at OAT last week, great news if its true.

Hoping they will still be looking at similar people in the next few months when I finish at OAT :)

dlav

lorcandaly

15th Feb 2007, 08:33

Do you know what the guys backround was? Irish? Hours? ANy contacts etc?

Somos

20th Feb 2007, 14:34

Hi

I´m looking for some examples of Aer lingus Airbus 320 rosters and I have some questions awell:

How many nightstops per month?
Days off per month?
How many sectors per day?
How long to upgrade to 330 ??

Thanks so much :) :)

Falling_Penguin

22nd Feb 2007, 12:42

Hello all,

Just wondering if any AL flight crew can tell me what changes, if any, are to be made to pilots' terms and conditions?

Thanks in advance....

From the Irish Times, unknown source.

=========================================
Aer Lingus to hire 300 pilots and cabin crew
17/2/2007

Aer Lingus is planning to recruit more than 300
pilots and cabin crew this year to enable it expand its long-haul
services and open its first base outside the Republic.

All of the staff are being issued with new contracts, which are
the subject of a dispute with Siptu and other trade unions involved
with the airline.

The new contracts would mean staff would have reduced holiday
entitlements, while allowances and working hours would also be
altered.

Entry-level pay for cabin crew is €22,500, rising to about
€30,000 when allowances are added. About 14 cabin crew are
graduating from training each week.

The new staff are needed for Aer Lingus to expand its long-haul
services. The carrier will take delivery of two new A330 aircraft
for use on these routes in May and June. Aer Lingus is hoping that
a new open skies bilateral agreement between the European Union and
the United States will have been agreed by then to allow it open
new transatlantic routes.

If those talks fail, the airline will expand its services on
existing routes to New York, Boston, Los Angeles and Dubai.

Aer Lingus is also expected to establish a base in the UK to
provide flights between British airports and to continental Europe
from next January. It will take delivery of two A320 aircraft in
December for these services.

The move will increase Aer Lingus' staff numbers by about 8.6
per cent from its current level of about 3,500.

It already has about 1,000 cabin crew, the majority of whom are
represented by Impact, which also acts for its pilots.

Impact, which represents about 1,400 staff at Aer Lingus, is
currently in talks with the airline over the introduction of the
new contracts under the auspices of the Labour Relations Commission
(LRC).

Siptu, which acts for 1,800 Aer Lingus workers, and craft unions
this week issued the company with notice of their intention to take
industrial action by the end of February.

Aer Lingus introduced the new contracts for staff joining from
February 1st. It plans to issue the contracts to existing employees
on March 1st. It is understood that the airline will make renewed
efforts to resume talks with Siptu next week, possibly under the
umbrella of the LRC.

Siptu has so far refused to enter talks until the company
suspends plans to introduce the contracts.

"The ball is in their court; there's no more we can do," said
Michael Halpenny, Siptu's national industrial
secretary.

NYC

22nd Feb 2007, 16:24

Hi everybody,

don't blame me, if this topic already exists...couldn't find answers to some of my questions.

I am thinking about an application as an F/O with Aer Lingus and now looking for some detailed information about the selection process, interview, sim ride... for an Airbus rated and experienced pilot.

According to their website, they are still looking for F/O's. How long does it usually take to get an acknowledgement or even an interview date?

Well, thanks for any info or link and the best to all of you guys!!

greetings

TwoDeadDogs

3rd Mar 2007, 15:50

Hi there
I've heard lately that they are interviewing Ryanair guys with experience right now, but have taken on two newbies with 250 hrs TT, fresh out of school, who have been charged E25K for the Type.
regards
TDD

dlav

5th Mar 2007, 10:12

Hi TwoDeadDogs, could you please tell me abit more about the two newbies you mentioned? Were they Integrated/modular etc and if so were they put forward by the school?

Whats the story with the type Rating?

Cheers
dlav

TwoDeadDogs

5th Mar 2007, 13:33

Hi there
As far as I know, they were Modular but I don't know what school.I don't know if they would do the rating in Toulouse or in Dublin.
regards
TDD

leadinghedges

7th Mar 2007, 01:41

They came from Oxford, type rating is in Dublin.

PhoenixRising

7th Mar 2007, 11:07

They are not being charged for the type rating. They will be bonded as per the traditional arrangement for direct entry pilots in Aer Lingus. The company were considering charging for the rating but have decided against it.

Telstar

7th Mar 2007, 11:13

leadinghedges

Are you sure about that? I believe someone also came from one of the clubs/schools at Weston Aerodrome also, who I believe was not involved with Oxford at all.

manuelvi

7th Mar 2007, 17:24

The contract pilots get more or less what you are saying so it could be.
ciao.

MV

Global Pilot

7th Mar 2007, 17:25

Yes it is true. They are taking non rated guys but expecting you to self fund at a cost of €25K for an A320 rating. Thinking they might be linking up with Parc who have been recently approved to conduct 320 ratings. Parc have a long history with Aer Lingus and in particular a certain EI A320 Captain (from somewhere around Brrrrrrrrrrrrr!) is behind Parc Training and would love a nice new supply of people willing to part with that kind of dosh.

ElNino

7th Mar 2007, 18:07

but expecting you to self fund at a cost of €25K for an A320 rating.

Incorrect.

manuelvi

7th Mar 2007, 18:12

Does some of you guys knows how many vacancies there are actually at aer lingus?
I was told that they have now ended interviewing pilots with experience and are now starting calling people with type but no experience.
Any detail abut this?
cheers

MV

lobsterbisque

7th Mar 2007, 19:24

no, still have type rated guys with time on type to interview/sim check

milehighdriver

7th Mar 2007, 20:27

The number doing the rounds over the next year or two, seems to range in the region of 150 direct entry pilots. I guess this depend on what happens with the open skies agreement, and what happens next with Ryanair and their anticipated renewed take-over bid
The management are now talking about bases outside Dublin, so that will obviously increase numbers. However, the LRC this week allowed the company the concession to pay local rates at local bases.
They have been recruiting experienced/type rated guys from the likes of Monach, Easy, Eirjet (RIP) and Ryanair. However, they have also taken on people recently with just a frozen ATPL. There is only a finite supply of type rated guys, so after that if your the right person for the job, then your in!

dlav

8th Mar 2007, 07:51

Ok lots of information here guys, thanks for that. Seems they will take low houred integrated and modular chaps which is great news all round.

Has anybody any information on the interview or apptitude tests?

Many thanks
dlav

Tooloose

8th Mar 2007, 11:03

SNAM,
Following discussions between IALPA and Aer Lingus, there is no charge for TR for any pilot joining Aer Lingus. Normal bonding arrangements will apply as has been the case heretofore.

EI-RB,
About a year ago a useful thread on recruitment in AerLingus had to be closed down because of your persistant allegations, despite plentiful evidence to the contrary from many knowledgeable sources, that employment as a pilot in Aer Lingus could be gained by having 'contacts'. You are now, again, claiming that people recently hired 'obviously have contacts'. This is both untrue and unfair. If you have evidence to substantiate your claim please produce it. If not please allow people to get on with their jobs.

garthicus

8th Mar 2007, 13:42

Have a look at www.parcaviation.aero on their job page.....

Bearcat

11th Mar 2007, 11:52

A few non rated guys getting in too but they obviously have the contacts...says RB.

Contacts is canvassing....canvassing wont get you near the place. I know.

milehighdriver

12th Mar 2007, 04:15

EI-RB,
Its not hard to get into EI if your the right person. Thats applies to any company. EI has standards, if you don't meet those standards, then I guess its tough luck.
Contrary to what you may think, having contacts doesn't help. You still have to jump through the hoops to get in. Naturally over the years there have been cases where sons/daughters have ended up flying for the company. The only advantage they have had has been a greater awareness of whats involved working for the company. Nothing else. Its sour grapes if you believe anything else!

Bearcat

12th Mar 2007, 11:15

RB...mile high said it all....

Keep trying...and best of luck.

Easy boy

14th Mar 2007, 19:46

Hi folks,
Can anyone help me, i have an interview with Aer Lingus and need all the help I can get.
I would appreciate if you would post or PM me with any details no matter how small.
Regards,
EB

250 Below 10

16th Mar 2007, 12:17

Hi guys/gals,

There must be somebody out there with some info regarding interview/sim check. Come on, share it!!

Arrowhead

18th Mar 2007, 02:38

I got called recently after hearing nothing for over a month.

Can anyone give the approx pay after tax (ie what drops in the bank) for an FO with plenty of time on type?

Also, anyone heard of a crew leasing deal with them and Vietnam Airlines?

INLAK

19th Mar 2007, 08:43

EI are not a fan of PPRUNE chats about their recruitment process and they do tend to keep an eye on what is said on here. Maybe that's why there hasn't been much response to your queries.
Basic pay is a yearly salary scale, so time on type or experience is not a factor. A new hire with 200 hours gets paid the same as one with 10,000 hours if they joined in the same year.
Some EI crews were working for VN while on unpaid leave from EI. This is just a personally arranged thing and nothing formal between companies.

Easy Ryder

2nd Apr 2007, 13:04

Hello,

How much is take home pay for a brand new FO per month/year (salary + flight/sector pay)?

How long before upgrade to the 330?

Once upgraded, do you fly both the 330/320?

How does the cost of living in Dublin compare to the UK?

Cheers

yak-yak

3rd Apr 2007, 09:38

Easy rider,
€4k :ok:
5+ yrs :suspect:
no :=
Ireland is far more expensive than UK.. :*

Easy Ryder

3rd Apr 2007, 09:53

yak-yak, thanks a lot mate! Appreciate it :ok:

manuelvi

3rd Apr 2007, 14:55

Hi Guys
Any news form the newly hired/selected pilots about the selection process?

thanks

MV

Sphinx

20th Apr 2007, 17:22

Does anyone in AL on the A320/1 fleet commute from outside Ireland? Would it be possible and practical to live in Southern England and commute for duties?

Would it be possible to use staff standby tickets to do it relatively cheaply? Thanks for any info.

curser

21st Apr 2007, 09:20

Sphinx, There is at least 1 who commutes from London on the 320. Jump seating would be a better option as staff tickets to from uk seem to attract a large tax. Right now the 320 works 5 on 2 off 5 on 3 off and the earlies are v.early and the lates, oddly enough, are v.late. This will probably mean you will require some form of accommodation at least initially over here. However, we will be getting PBS in the next few weeks and this might allow for tighter working patterns and consequently more days off. The chances are also pretty good that you wont spend more than a few years on the 320 anyway and then your commute will cease to be a problem. Hope that helps. Curser. PS. lots of talk about foreign bases also.

Cloud Chaser

22nd Apr 2007, 14:39

Just picking up something from the last post, does progression to the long-haul fleet really come within a couple of years?

curser

23rd Apr 2007, 08:31

C.C., to answer your question. It will depend on the next 3 months. If mol fails and we remain independent; then the 330 fleet (or whatever) grows from 7 a/c to 14 a/c in the next 5-7 years. Combined that with our age demographic and anyone joining now should be offered the long haul in that time frame. Curser. P.s. this is only my interpretation of the swirling clouds in my crystal ball, everything gets a little hazy beyond the next roster period.

milehighdriver

23rd Apr 2007, 11:38

Depending on whom you listen to within the company. Aer Lingus haven't yet recruited their most junior Captain for the year 2010-2011. So that pretty much gives you an idea of the planned recruitment over the next couple of years.

Stand31

25th Apr 2007, 12:00

End of May there is supposed to be some sort of announcement for 14 new LH aircraft, so the junior Captain in 2011 would be a reality alright. :)

shortfuel

25th Apr 2007, 15:42

It seems that new joiners are now offered a "new" contract, with different T & C's...(since Feb 07)
For example:
- performance related pay threshold changed from 520 to 720 block hours...about 11000 euros less per year (based on 800h/year)

- Leave days were 31, now 44...that's better, maybe a compensation for above, a very little compensation

- Bond for everybody, 10000 euros for type rated and experienced F/O, 30000 euros for non type rated, over 3 year period (pro rated)

I wonder how IALPA will cope with point nbr 1.

So long'

quarefellah

26th Apr 2007, 15:59

Hi All,
Earlier posts suggest EI have yet to hire their most junior captain for 2011. They don't seem in too much of a rush to do so of late. People are waiting for word at all stages of the recruitment process all of a sudden. Anyone care to hazard a guess as to why this is now the case?
Do they want people or don't they?
Fly Safe!

jdmackin

26th Apr 2007, 18:29

Ok, now this bond. If I'm not type-rated and EI would give me a type does that mean I must stay at EI for 3 years to fufill my bond and not pay anything? Or that means that part of my paycheck will go into my training at the end of every month and if I leave during that 3 year period I only pay what is left?

Tooloose

26th Apr 2007, 18:56

Stay 3 years, pay nothing. Leave after 2 years, pay one third of bond; after 1 year, pay two thirds. Nothing deducted from pay in the interim. Plan A was Pay-for-Rating but this was changed following intervention by IALPA. Adjustment from Plan A to Plan B is in progress.

milehighdriver

26th Apr 2007, 22:07

Why the slowdown?

Because the company hasn't the resources to train everybody up at the moment. As usual foresight and planning don't necessarily go hand in hand at Aer Lingus. We need pilots yesterday, yet the company will only do something about it tomorrow!

At the moment the training department is working flat out. New recuits are being trained up onto the A320. Whilst multiple command checks are being carried out on the A330 FO's. The A330 training dept is then having to train up new A330 FO's.

Rumour has it the pre-command courses and command checks will have to be held off for a few months until more new recuits are added to the roster. Apparently, we don't have enough pilots to operate the summer schedule.

They want people alright, especially type rated guys. But that pool is rapidly diminishing. Especially, when other operators are recruiting. I doubt there are too many companies out there, that are willing to take on newly qualified pilots without making them pay for their training!

Come on in, life is green! :ok:

Strong, silent type

5th Aug 2007, 21:27

How many pilots are there in Aer Lingus? About 500 perhaps? Can anyone be serious and tell me that they really expect that there will be command vacancies for someone who joins now or near enough to now and have the hours by then? I'd love to see some evidence! C'mon, who in Aer Lingus can tell me the rate or command upgrades at the moment? Me thinks someone is looking into the bottom of a tea cup while coming up with these BS figures!

Count von Altibar

5th Aug 2007, 22:50

I know someone who joined in 1991 and command course was 2006 so things don't move very fast at EI in terms of years to command. However with all this expansion on the cards time to command will inevitabley reduce significantly, not sure what it is at present.

Stand31

7th Aug 2007, 10:17

Guys who joined 97/98 are going thru the cmd process now. More recruitment onthe cards next year, have heard various numbers mentioned. I don't think anyone joining now will be waiting as long as that for cmd, based on forward orders. Where you will have to live though is another question. Long time to cmd is more than compensated for by salary scale and nice longhaul lifestyle! :zzz:

flyer4life

7th Aug 2007, 13:37

Regarding getting an application in now ready for future recruitment, can anyone with inside knowledge say whether a photo on the CV is a good idea or not?
Cheers,
flyer4life

stellar

8th Aug 2007, 00:19

Any truth to the rumour that EI is pulling out of DXB-DUB.V. disappointing news if so perhaps the source is confused with the Shannon/LHR cesation of operation. Please confirm. Stellar

Blinkz

8th Aug 2007, 11:30

does anyone have any idea how this is going to affect people in the hold pool? The press release says:

Over 100 new jobs will be created directly through local recruitment of pilots and cabin crew

Does that mean that they are planning on separately recruiting pilots from Northern Ireland? It seems a waste of money to put people through selection again when they have people in the hold pool ready to go! Or could it just be a little PR wording mixed in?

Also, as I understand it a lot of NI pilots are flying for Aer Lingus as it is so I guess they will be very keen to move back home!

any thoughts?

Agent Oringe

7th Sep 2007, 18:39

Food for thought....
Will the BFS Buses be EI or G registered?
In which case will there be 2 AOC's ?
I hear that a 330 is probably also going to be based in BFS.

dlav

7th Sep 2007, 22:25

I'd imagine EI on the tails...
doesnt seem to cause any problems for Ryanair, although I could be wrong?
Cheers

BaDvOcK

8th Sep 2007, 13:02

They will only be operating a single AOC. I believe they had 80 applicants for the 15 DE skippers' jobs

jonjoe

8th Sep 2007, 15:50

despite IFALPA recruitment ban....respect, lads.:D

missterrible

8th Sep 2007, 16:22

Interesting situation for applicants:

If IALPA win they could be toast.

If ALT win their contracts could quickly be toast as there would be no defence available and who would defend such 'opportunists' (nicest word I could come up with).

I wouldn't leave a good job for a situation like that, at least not until the situation gets clearer.

omoko joe

8th Sep 2007, 16:58

and who says most of them didn't apply before the IALPA recruitment ban? It wasn't exactly immediate. Sort it out guys.

jonjoe

8th Sep 2007, 18:19

worried about your application....?

omoko joe

8th Sep 2007, 18:34

er..no. Unless they are planning on taking people in at year 8. Last time I checked though NI was the domain of BALPA not IALPA.

jonjoe

8th Sep 2007, 18:55

check again my friend.
i think you'll find an agreement between ialpa and balpa.
good luck with the application......:D

missterrible

8th Sep 2007, 19:08

Will all the checks, PCs, Ground School etc be done by IALPA pilots based in Dublin?

Even after the base is up and running?

jonjoe

8th Sep 2007, 19:29

What do you think?

jonjoe

8th Sep 2007, 19:32

I think a lot of people would do the same.

omoko joe

8th Sep 2007, 20:15

Well as it's much worse than the deal I'm already on, I think i'll give it a miss. Anyways wouldn't want to deprive you of a command in the low pay unit :E

Bad Robot

8th Sep 2007, 23:19

"check again my friend.
i think you'll find an agreement between ialpa and balpa.
good luck with the application"

Any reason why there is no such ban on the BALPA website then ?

Just curious, that's all ????

BR.

Lord Lardy

9th Sep 2007, 07:01

The ban is covered on the http://www.ifalpa.org website.

Copied and pasted from the member section of ifalpa website: UK (Balpa) third from bottom. If you look at the Ialpa homepage it dosen't mention it either. It seems to be only on the Ifalpa section under Recrutiment ban on its homepage.

Algeria

Syndicat des Pilotes de Ligne Algerien (SPLA)Click Here (http://www.algerianalpa.org/)Argentina

Asociacion de Pilotos de Lineas Aereas (APLA)Click Here (http://www.apla.org.ar/)Australia

Australia Federation of Air Pilots (AFAP)Click Here (http://www.afap.org.au/)Australia

Australian & International Pilots Association (AIPA)Click Here (http://www.aipa.org.au/)Austria

Austrian Cockpit Association (ACA)Click Here (http://www.aca.or.at/)Belgium

Belgian Cockpit Association (BCA)Click Here (http://www.beca.be/)Brazil

Sindicato Nacional dos Aeronautas (SNA)Click Here (http://www.aeronautas.org.br/)Canada

Air Line Pilots' Association - Canada (ALPA-C)Click Here (http://www.alpa.org/)Caribbean

Caribbean Air Line Pilots Association (Car-ALPA)Click Here (http://www.caribbeanalpa.com/)Chile

Circulo de Pilotos de Chile (CPC)Click Here (http://www.circulodepilotos.cl/)Colombia

Asociacion Colombiana de Aviadores Civiles (ACDAC)Click Here (http://www.acdac.org.co/)Finland

Finnish Air Line Pilots Association (SLL)Click Here (http://www.sllpilots.fi/)France

Syndicat National des Pilotes de Ligne (SNPL)Click Here (http://www.snpl.com/)Germany

Vereingung Cockpit (VC)Click Here (http://www.vcockpit.de/)Hong Kong

Hong Kong Air Line Pilots Association (HKALPA)Click Here (http://www.hkalpa.net/)Iceland

Icelandic Pilots Association (FIA)Click Here (http://www.fia.is/)India

Federation of Indian Pilots (FIP)Click Here (http://www.indianpilots.org/)Ireland

Irish Air Line Pilots Association (IALPA)Click Here (http://ialpa.net/)Israel

Israel Air Line Pilots AssociationClick Here (http://www.isralpa.org.il/)Italy

Associazione Nazionale Piloti Aviazione Conmerciale (ANPAC)Click Here (http://www.anpac.it/)Jamaica

Jamaica Air Line Pilots Association (JALPA)Click Here (http://www.jalpa.org/)Leeward Islands

Leeward Isands Air Line Pilots Association (LIALPA)Click Here (http://www.caribbeanalpa.com/lialpa/)Luxemborg

Luxemborg Arline Pilots Association (ALPL)Click Here (http://www.alpl.lu/)Malaysia

Malaysian Airline Pilots AssociationClick Here (http://www.mapa.org.my/)Mauritius

Mauritius Airline Pilot Association (MALPA)Click Here (http://www.malpa.org/)Mexico

Asociacion Sindical de Pilotos Aviadores de Mexico (ASPA)Click Here (http://www.aspa.org.mx/)Morocco

Association Marocaine des Pilotes de LigneClick Here (http://www.ampl.ma/)Netherlands

Vereiniging van Nederlandse Verkeersvliegers (VNV)Click Here (http://www.vnv-dalpa.nl/)New Zealand

New Zealand Air Line Pilots Association (NZALPA)Click Here (http://www.nzalpa.org.nz/)Norway

Norsk Fkygerforbund (NF)Click Here (http://flyger.no/)Pakistan

Pakistan Air Line Pilots Association (PALPA)Click Here (http://www.palpa.org.pk/)Singapore

Air Line Pilots Association - Singapore (ALPA-S)Click Here (http://www.alpas.org/)Spain

Sindicato Espanol de Pilotos de Lineas Aereas (SEPLA)Click Here (http://www.sepla.es/)Sweden

Swedish Airline Pilots AssociationClick Here (http://www.swealpa.se/)Switzerland

SwissALPAClick Here (http://www.swissalpa.ch/)Thailand

Thai Pilots AssociationClick Here (http://thaipa.net/)Trinidad & Tobago

Trinidad & Tobago Air Line Pilots Association (TTALPA)Click Here (http://www.ttalpa.org/)Turkey

Turk Hava Yollari Pilotlari Dernegi (TALPA)Click Here (http://www.talpa.org/)UK

British Air Line Pilots Association (BALPA)Click Here (http://www.balpa.org.uk/)US

US Air Line Pilots AssciationClick Here (http://www.alpa.org/)Yugoslavia

Yugoslav Air Line Pilots Association (YALPA)Click Here (http://www.yalpa.org/)

Bad Robot

9th Sep 2007, 10:33

These are the only recruitment bans on the BALPA Web site that I can see.:confused:

Recruitment Bans
Bolivia - Lloyd Aereo Boliviano
Equatorial Guinea - Employment Alert
Kenya - Kenya Airways
India - Air India
- Air India Charters Ltd (AICL)
- Air India Express (AIX)
Italy - Pilots of Italian Helicopter Companies
Uruguay - PLUNA
(http://www.ifalpa.org/jobs/recruitmentban/)

BR.

Angus Meecoat

14th Sep 2007, 08:38

Anybody heard anything back yet from EI on the Belfast recruitment. Applications closed on the 31/8

They have an update on the website that it was oversubscribed.

Blinkz

14th Sep 2007, 11:12

Well I doubt they will be doing anything until the issue with IALPA is settled. Does anyone know what is happening with it? Last rumour I heard was that they were going to allow transfers from Dublin to Belfast?

Agent Oringe

15th Sep 2007, 11:03

The question has got to be asked then:

Is there any point in having an open recruitment for the BFS base?

I'm sure there are sufficient "applicants" from DUB to fill all the BFS posts, as has previously been mentioned.

Blinkz

15th Sep 2007, 11:25

who knows, they had to do it though as at the time they weren't going to use any Dublin people, so needed to at least have people in a shortlist for interviews. If dublin people are used then it will simplify things a lot as they will already be trained. They also have people in the hold pool already selected (so again simplifying things!) ready to fill any FO slots. Whilst you can argue its a little harsh to advertise jobs for belfast and then not use any of the applicants, I think it is EVEN MORE harsh to not give FOs who have been waiting years for their command to be passed over by people outside the company, as well as the 20 people or so in the hold pool who have been waiting for their break only to be passed by other people.......

I guess we'll just see what happens :)

Agent Oringe

15th Sep 2007, 14:52

I totally agree, perhaps they were a bit hasty down in DUB to get the "Show on the road" without really thinking it over before hand?

alisha

19th Sep 2007, 13:57

IALPA welcomes Aer Lingus recognition

http://www.rte.ie/news/images/icon_video.gif (javascript:showPlayer('aerlingus_av.html'))Wednesday, 19 September 2007 13:37
The Irish Airline Pilots Association has said the proposal by Aer Lingus management to recognise the union at its Belfast base is a welcome development.
The association said it is still considering the details of a letter to pilots from the airline.
It also described as welcome the company's willingness to facilitate transfers to Belfast without a requirement to resign, as had previously been the case.
It added, however, that many important issues remain to be resolved.

The proposals aim to break the deadlock over the company's plans to establish a new base in Belfast.
In a letter to pilots, Chief Executive Dermot Mannion said pilots from the Republic may transfer permanently or on temporary secondment, but must accept different terms and conditions while in Belfast.
He was adamant that the airline would not import existing agreements or seniority to the new base, which is due to go into operation on 10 December.
http://dynamic.rte.ie/0000fb90096.jpgPilots transferring permanently must move to the lower terms and conditions in Belfast Airport (left). They must also leave the guaranteed pension in the Republic and join a new Defined Contribution scheme in Northern Ireland.
Some pilots may be seconded for up to five years. During that time they will be on Belfast terms and conditions but will revert to Republic terms if they move back. They retain their guaranteed pension rights and service.
First officer salaries will range from £40,000 to £50,000, while captains can earn from £76,000 to £96,520. Promotions to captain positions in Belfast would be on merit not seniority.
The pilots are expected to issue counter proposals after considering this latest document.

Bad Robot

20th Sep 2007, 20:34

Anybody been called for Interview yet?
Or are there sufficient already in the Holding pool?
They are leaving it a bit tight if the start date is for December.
Most airlines require at least 3 months notice these days.

BR.

EjetSetter

21st Sep 2007, 00:59

DM might be the next MOL if he doesn't stop. I remember a time when EI was one of the most respected carriers here in the states, and Americans dreamed to fly for them.

Now a days thanks to Ryanair, this is a memory.

Is IALPA fighting to keep the bond agreements in place for the NIers so I don't have to shell out another 20,000 euros?

heidelberg

21st Sep 2007, 12:46

EjetS.
Those were the days we paid $550 (400 Euro) to fly DUB/LHR/DUB or DUB/LGW/DUB. A trip of 50mins to 1hr flight time.
To-day the cost with EI is from $95 (68 Euro) incl all taxes etc.
In days gone by it took 3 people to change a 737 flight deck bulb.
To-day it takes one person.
In times gone by everyone who flew EI, BA and other state carriers the general public were paying for overstaffed airlines.
Thanks to the likes of Ryanair this is, more or less, in the past and thanks also to Willie Walsh, EI is a much more efficient airline to-day and not too bloated with excessive staff numbers.
However, everyone knows it still has some 'fat' to get rid off and when this happens EI will be well able to compete with any LCC.

johnnyDB

22nd Sep 2007, 10:23

so does this mean we can apply again?

Bad Robot

22nd Sep 2007, 21:48

From the Aer Lingus Website.

Pilot Pay And Conditions – Information for Candidates
Pay-scales
Point
First Officer Captain
1 £40,000 £76,000
2 £41,200 £78,280
3 £42,400 £80,560
4 £43,600 £82,840
5 £44,800 £85,120
6 £46,000 £87,400
7 £47,200 £89,680
8 £48,400 £91,960
9 £49,600 £94,240
10£50,800 £96,520

Sector Pay
•Sectors divided into bands based on nautical miles
•Same rate of payment for Captains and First Officers
•Average £8,300 per annum

Pension
•Group Personal Pension Plan
•Matched contribution up to 9%

General Terms
 Recruitment may be higher up the scale depending on type-hours

 Annual Leave
o 28 days (including Public Holidays)
o Increase by 1 day after each of the first 5 years service to max of 33 days

 Paid Sick Leave entitlement increases with service to 13 Weeks after 2 years
 Medical, Life & Loss of Licence Insurance Provided
 Uniform Provided.
 Bond for Training Costs
 Competitive Promotion
 Working Time Limits as per JAR-Ops
More Detailed Terms & Conditions and Working Arrangements will be
provided as the selection process progresses.

BR.

papa2andcharlie

23rd Sep 2007, 22:34

Just sure there is NO confusion. The above terms HAVE NOT been agreed with IALPA.

(Oh yes, NO seniority in Belfast is the in the above proposal as well.....just incase you hadn't seen that part yet.)

In fact the above was just "presented" to IALPA as what management want. Another wishlist.

The ban (AFAIK) is still in place. There are NO EI pilots available to check you out.

Welcome onboard? Are you sure?

alisha

25th Sep 2007, 19:38

You blokes down in Dublin seem so concerned about what I will earn if I get hired in Belfast. From where I sit at the moment it looks it looks good - would like to know if I will get the same staff travel deal as the Dublin staff.

Blinkz

26th Sep 2007, 00:20

alisha, the fact is you would be taking jobs away from people already in the company. There are loads of FOs who have been waiting years for command to now watch Lingus hire in some random person! Plus there are more then enough people in the hold pool to fill the vacancies, however again Lingus seem to want to ignore that too....

max tanking

26th Sep 2007, 00:37

This is the craic as I see it. Am a bus driver from NI. The missus and family want back to NI. Options...commute and have a cr@p family life (no offence mean't to anyone that does commute). or wait till Easy decide to get their act sorted, or now EI.
All this union stuff is important and although I have thrown my hat in the ring by applying. It doesn't mean I will take the job if the dispute isn't resolved. However, if we hadn't applied in the first place and the union had given the thumbs up, then that would have left us nowhere. Bottom line, everyone wants the best deal. By applying, we are not giving the boys in DUB the finger. We are just expressing our interest in BFS as a base, but ideally if done with union consent.
With any luck it will all be sorted out and we could be one big happy, equally paid family!

papa2andcharlie

27th Sep 2007, 07:29

big happy, equally paid family

Shheesh. Come on guys, take your finger out of your holes. This is NOT about the money (granted some of it is).

Step back, take a look at the big picture...what is it that management are wanting to do to you Belfast boys? Think they want a happy family with the dub boys? Hell no.

They want you to be the EI whipping boys. No seniority, poor conditions, no union, less pay.....and when your sent to fly into dublin taking flights away from that base, who'll have the ability to say no?

What happens when the warsaw boys do it to you?

Stay strong and stick together, 1 seniority list, 1 type of aerlingus pilot.

Then we're family.

jonjoe

27th Sep 2007, 10:54

Well said.:D

max tanking

27th Sep 2007, 11:25

You're right, it's not all about the money.
You will find that, out of the numbers that have applied, myself included. Not many will actually accept a position if offered under the current T & C's. The only advantage EI have for me, and probably any other typed bus drivers is the base location.
Pay..Average.
Allowances.. below par.
Hours...JAR Ops ( that means maxed out)
Pension.. a disgrace!

The only guys out there that would go for the deal, are going to be flybe skippers who are being shafted harder where they are. And to be honest I can't blame them. It is fine sat here from the LHS with another bus operator, but when a carrot like that is dangled infront of those guys. It's hard to blame them. TC's way better.
Not that i think it's right to danggle that carrot to the poor guys, bet not one turbo-prop skipper gets a job. Harsh but true. just telling it as it is.

Getting back to the point. We are with you guys. The only way to get it sorted though, is for the union and its member to have some backbone and get it sorted. Hit'em where it hurts. And quick, I ain't half getting some grief from the missus who frankly doesn't give a stuff about this. She just wants home!

papa2andcharlie

27th Sep 2007, 17:11

The only way to get it sorted though, is for the union and its member to have some backbone and get it sorted. Hit'em where it hurts.
Ah yes, you must have been off the face of the planet a few weeks ago....I'd better help you out.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/aer-lingus-pilots-vote-to-strike-over-belfast-move-1058326.html
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/0814/breaking2.htm

Sound familiar? To be told that we "need to do something" when I've already put my job on the line in trying to defend pilots I don't yet know is hard to swallow.

However I'm big enough to be able to take the long term view of all this and realise that most of the guys applying for these jobs will never appreciate what was done on behalf of them until it's probably too late.

The short sightedness of pilots never ceases to amaze me. Ironic considering what we actually put into practice when we take to the air (if we are proper professionals).

As for you wife sir. If you are unable to control that small problem, it's going to get a hell of a lot tougher if you come back.

papa2andcharlie

27th Sep 2007, 17:17

alisha said:

You blokes down in Dublin seem so concerned about what I will earn if I get hired in Belfast. From where I sit at the moment it looks it looks good - would like to know if I will get the same staff travel deal as the Dublin staff.

OH BRAVO!

So at that stage you didn't know what salary you would be on.
You didn't know ANY working conditions.
There was strong rumours of NO seniority list.
There was likely to be a poor pension.
You were going to be breaking a recruitment ban.
You knew there would be no job security...

And the only f%$king thing going through your mind was, can I get some cheapo tickets to visit my mistress in Rome?

Pathetic.

alisha

27th Sep 2007, 20:28

P2C - you obviously have no regard for women, wives , families. In fact you cant even spot one. But your very concerned about protecting what you boys in dublin have - dressed up in how much your going to do for us!

R680

27th Sep 2007, 21:21

Even though I'm not remotely involved in this, I am struck at how far this profession has fallen, and why. If this is the wave of the future, it is time to bid this adieu.

max tanking

28th Sep 2007, 02:18

Ok...Papa2and charlie, to be frank I had a bit or respect for what you were doing at the start of this thread. Now I just think you're a diiick. All this talk of doing this for the guys applying for BFS, in truth its about protecting your terms, no thing else.

Oooh you poor thing, wrapping it up in an aire of martyrdom. You have just shown your true colours and it disgusts me. And the pathetic threat that things are going to get worse if we take the job. well, we will see.

Grow up. And now I why the union has no backbone, if you have anything to do with it. You guys should have gone on strike to get your point across. And NO you wouldn't have been doing it for us, you would have being doing it to preserve the status quo in EI. You know that when you have a cheaper labour in the company, it reduces your own bargaining power at pay talks. You had the management in a position where you could have made a difference, but when it counted you didn't have the balls.

Well thank you for helping me make up my mind.

Bad Robot

28th Sep 2007, 07:56

Great! another North /South divide, just what we need.:hmm:

BR.

Visual Calls

28th Sep 2007, 12:02

Max Tanking,
Come what may, the aeroplanes are going to fly anyway. The issue is whether they fly with guys on the current T&C's or on reduced T&C's. While it is of course about protecting the current jobs, it's also about protecting future jobs. That's sensible, it preserves unity and everyones prospects improve.
I assure you that your wildly inaccurate anti-IALPA comments are just that. Obviously however this is not the forum to give updates. No doubt you will learn the full story at some point.

papa2andcharlie

28th Sep 2007, 12:44

And NO you wouldn't have been doing it for us, you would have being doing it to preserve the status quo in EI. You know that when you have a cheaper labour in the company, it reduces your own bargaining power at pay talks.
Max - yet again you assume this is about pay. For goodness sake OPEN YOUR EYES.

When you get your F/o position at BFS (it certainly won't be Capt - EI will close before that happens) what will you do when the Warsaw base starts:

War - BFS - LHR - BFS - War rotations on a daily bases. Or maybe
War - BFS - BHX - BFS - War

Management claim that they are working for pittance a day and that there's now a glut of pilots in BFS - I mean they've just taken lots of flights from your base by stealth. If you WANT to resign and apply for the new Warsaw contract you'll be free to do so...but that will also mean you need to give up your (already paltry) pension and X days of leave, work under JAR ops conditions only, no seniority (oh wait you never had any) and sleep at the airport in case they need you.

Who are you going to call?
What are you going to do?
Who's going to help you?
You're all practically contractors - no-one will stick together. You'll knife each other in the back...again.

You'll be frustrated at the Warsaw guys for undercutting you, only this time comments like "And NO you wouldn't have been doing it for us, you would have being doing it to preserve the status quo in EI." will start to ring hollow. You remember an old base call Dublin that warned about these things, but you just saw money and took it. The other things didn't seem important at the time.

The Warsaw guys will claim that they're only doing it cos the missus is giving them grief about wanting to get home to the motherland....and YOU will find this frustrating. Oh and that even getting 1/10 of the working conditions that you had is better than what they had previously so why shouldn't they take it?

The solution?

If you truly think of IALPA :
"And now I why the union has no backbone, if you have anything to do with it. You guys should have gone on strike to get your point across."

You are so off the mark as to be funny. In 2-3 weeks, I shall quote these words back to you. Please be man enough to prepare to apologise, as we (IALPA) face very difficult times in the next few weeks for our members - including the BFS pilots who we wish to see join us, on our seniority list and on our working conditions.

Did you hear of the IALPA strike in 2002?
Do you believe we called of the strike in 2007 due to lack of balls?
Do you believe IALPA is a weak union?

Please take a look at history before you throw off the cuff remarks about IALPA. (google !)

I don't expect you to care, but I do expect you to get some facts straight.

As for :

"And the pathetic threat that things are going to get worse if we take the job. well, we will see. "

There was no threat intended there. That was a poorly constructed sentence on my part. It should have been something like : If the only problem you have is pestering from your wife - be prepared for management dumping a hell of a lot more on you if these working conditions get imposed on BFS pilots. You'll have no protection to prevent it.

It's time to stick together.

Then we're family.

Bearcat

28th Sep 2007, 22:38

Mannion is rumoured to have given the biggest two fingers to the pilots union today with their proposals....I think its gloves off time.

alisha

29th Sep 2007, 09:15

AIRLINE travellers may face more holiday misery as the fragile negotiations between Aer Lingus and its pilots have hit a major stumbling block, after the airline rejected the pilots' latest set of proposals.
Aer Lingus and its pilots have been involved in stilted negotiations since late August, when pilots suspended plans for a two-day strike.
That strike notice was prompted by pilots' opposition to the terms on offer for pilots at a new Aer Lingus base in Belfast, and unions have used the negotiations to push for major changes to those Belfast offers.
Resolution looked close on Tuesday, when pilots' union Ialpa sent Aer Lingus management proposals for employment at the Belfast base.
But Aer Lingus chief executive Dermot Mannion yesterday wrote to pilots and dismissed those proposals in their entirety, branding them unworkable and too costly and noting that they presented "no basis for resolution".
The development could have serious implications for the travelling public, as the pilots' strike notice remains in place, which means Aer Lingus' fleet can be grounded at just a week's notice.
Ialpa boss Evan Cullen said he could not comment on the union's next move until he had spoken to Ialpa's governing committee, many of whom are travelling this weekend. Mr Cullen added that a formal response would "probably come on Monday or Tuesday".
The difference between Aer Lingus and Ialpa centre on the terms pilots will work under.
Aer Lingus plans to employ pilots under terms and conditions that are more flexible than those in Dublin, while Ialpa's plans include giving Dublin pilots some special allowances for working in Belfast, and giving Belfast pilots similar terms and conditions to their colleagues in Dublin.
"What Ialpa proposed is an arrangement whereby not only are existing restrictive practices applied to Belfast operations but new ones are developed to supplement them," said Mr Mannion.
Unpalatable
A proposal about Aer Lingus paying some hotel expenses for Dublin pilots that travelled to Belfast is understood to have been particularly unpalatable.
Aer Lingus wants to recruit pilots on the open market, while Ialpa's proposals would see all captain slots filled from the Dublin ranks.
"The Ialpa proposals are designed to circumvent employment law in Northern Ireland, maximise Ialpa's ability to interfere with business decisions and ensure Belfast operations are restricted in terms of productivity, cost-effectiveness and flexibility," said Mr Mannion.
"Ialpa are asking us not to create a base, but a contrived and convoluted operation, whereby protection for current pilots is measured in terms of the inefficiency of the Belfast operation," he added.
Mr Mannion finished his letter by saying he would welcome a meeting with Ialpa, if there was a "genuine willingness from Ialpa to resolve these matters".

Silver Tongued Cavalier

29th Sep 2007, 10:52

Looks like DM is panicking.

He's now realised his advisors (LW) weren't all they were cracked up to be.

Just how will he get himself out the corner he foolishly put himself in???

No Sheikh or Bangladeshi baggage handlers here Derm....:}

Bearcat

29th Sep 2007, 14:54

either panicking or throwing all his cards on the table......the latter says me.

45989

29th Sep 2007, 21:55

M T this profession is being destroyed by your ilk.No principles, no standards of decency, merely self interest. Maybe with such sterling attributes you should be applying to ryr?

alisha

30th Sep 2007, 20:21

ok I've been checking this out for the last few days - you guys have put about £100k each into ei and now you want to do the company over for us guys who might be hired. Clearly you have money to burn. :ugh:

PhoenixRising

30th Sep 2007, 21:20

It's a concept generally referred to as 'seeing the bigger picture' - which it appears your myopia is preventing you from seeing.

Bad Robot

30th Sep 2007, 22:29

I see from the AL website that the deadline for applications for Pilots & Cabincrew for the BFS base was the 28th September. Previously it was August, this has been extended a month.

Perhaps the message is getting through and guys are observing the IALPA ban?

BR.

Count von Altibar

30th Sep 2007, 23:19

I think that pilots should respect the IALPA recruitment ban. This BFS base is a clear attempt to bring Aer Lingus pilots under much reduced terms and conditions and it really is the 'thin end of the wedge' as they say for the Dublin based ones. This has all been handled in a very rushed manner. Mr Mannion needs to sit down and work with IALPA or no doubt he'll be faced with a very tricky situation before long...

papa2andcharlie

1st Oct 2007, 08:03

Bad Robot

1st Oct 2007, 21:42

I see that the BFS Pilots and Cabin Crew positions are no longer advertised on the AL website. The Engineer positions still remain.

BR.

dartagnan

2nd Oct 2007, 10:31

how many pilots do they need, and how many planes will be based in belfast?
they have probably received thousand of CV.

flyer4life

2nd Oct 2007, 10:37

Has anyone who applied heard anything yet?

Angus Meecoat

2nd Oct 2007, 10:41

They have been interviewing Captains from the shortlist already. F/Os to be called shortly I understand.

Localiser Green

2nd Oct 2007, 11:41

how many pilots do they need, and how many planes will be based in belfast?

3 aircraft in total, first starts services 10/12/07, second on 14/01/08 and third on 25/02/08.

By my reckoning that's about 40-50 new pilots for the base by Feb '08?

suasdaguna

2nd Oct 2007, 11:53

direct entry captains into aer lingus interests.....from what i know the command process is a tough work out for the current guys. Humour me....are the new capts , just going to do a line check and thats it? it's a joke having parallel standards. Good old ryanair have the same yard stick for all.

alisha

2nd Oct 2007, 21:25

seems like we can get on with it while captain kremin leads the lunatics over the edge of the cliff. did I join up the dots P2C or am I just a dumb chick

papa2andcharlie

3rd Oct 2007, 00:12

alisha - I wouldn't dare comment on your mental aptitude. I'll leave the posts you have previously written in this thread for others to decide themselves.

One thing strikes me (oh excuse me, freudian slip) though, it appears you're already salivating at the thought of getting a job in BFS once Manion has had his dirty way with us. How short sighted.

Lets take away the fact I think you are an imbecile for not understanding why the pilots were/are taking this course of action - when you get your job, and Manion comes next year looking for, say, 5 days annual leave from you - what's your plan going to be?

Do you think we'll care on this forum? Do you IALPA/BALPA/Union will want to know? Do you think your colleagues will help? What if he threats not to pay you for 6 weeks, until you give up the 5 days?

What if he employs some skivvy from "insert non-racial but looked down upon pilot country" to come to Belfast and do your flights while you "consider" his new contracts?

Oh but of course - it would never happen to ME! I mean I'll just do my work, keep the head down, say nothing, maybe look for my command in a couple of years. I mean, it's more than I'm getting paid at McDonalds, screw those other losers already there, they don't know they have it made.

Stupid pension - I'll be dead of radiation before I'll need that. What with my 900 (or more) hrs a year til I'm 65 I'll be glowing brighter than the maglite in my case!

Leave days? When the hell will I have time for that, got to make sure my name doesn't appear at the bottom of any annual flight hours league and draw attention to myself. Actually maybe I'll just ring crew control and see if there's any gaps for tomorrow...can never be too sure.

Pay? Phssst! No idea what my pay freeze is at a at the moment. I'm never at home, haven't seen the outside of an airplane for 3 months. Well, until next Tuesday that is, when I have to go to the hospital for surgery.....to have an A320 professionally removed from my ass.

Where does it stop?

Would you take my grave so quick?

PS. Good luck with the interview.

Bearcat

3rd Oct 2007, 07:27

a dumb chick.

EjetSetter

4th Oct 2007, 20:27

Outside of Ireland anynight stops?

And will schdueleing be kind if I live in Bilbao?

FO JimmieJames

5th Oct 2007, 00:19

1. Is the recruitment ban still in place?
2. How long do you think it will be untill all in AL a happy and stable organistion again?
3. How long is a piece of string? (Quantum Physic answer for this this one please) :}

dontdoit

5th Oct 2007, 10:10

alisha - An honest question: have you actually worked for an airline before ?????

willby

9th Oct 2007, 16:40

Hi FO Jimmie James,
1. Is the recruitment ban still in place?
In reply just heard on RTE news today a statement from Impact Trade Union (IALPA) that Aer Lingus had suspended one pilot for refusing to train Belfast crews.
Willby

papa2andcharlie

9th Oct 2007, 17:45

F/o Jimmie James

1) CHeck out http://www.ialpa.net/main.html
2) When Mannion and co have gone and a proper management team are put in place.
3) Twice the length from the middle.

TRY2FLY

9th Oct 2007, 21:11

Aer Lingus had suspended one pilot for refusing to train Belfast crews.
RTÉ 9 O'Clock news reports 4 suspended

Lee Frost

10th Oct 2007, 07:52

======================================================
Aer Lingus has begun suspending pilots refusing to train new recruits in a dispute over pay and conditions for the airline's planned new hub at Belfast.

Members of the Aer Lingus pilots' union Impact have said they will resign en masse from training duties.

It follows the suspension of four of their colleagues for refusing to train new recruits who will be employed on lower pay and pensions.

Almost 40 senior pilots have begun resigning from training duties.

By doing so they are seeking to avoid the risk of suspension for refusal to train new recruits.

The Irish Airline Pilots' Association (Ialpa) which is part of Impact wants to negotiate over terms and conditions to apply in Belfast.

However, the airline has said negotiations are over and it wants to set up its new hub north of the border employing staff on conditions "with reference to local market conditions".

Four Ialpa members have been suspended so far for refusing to take part in the training of new recruits, in line with union policy to black co-operation with management's Belfast preparations until agreement is reached.

While there was speculation that a suspension might trigger a strike - for which the union already has virtual unanimous approval from its membership - the pilots' move to formally withdraw from training is a surprise one, seeking to outfox management.

An Impact spokesman told the BBC that training was an optional extra duty beyond pilots' core flying duties, which they elected to make themselves available for and for which they received separate pay.

Resignation threat

However, the union claims that an in-house training capability was also a regulatory requirement of Irish aviation authorities, and that loss of this through mass resignations would hit the airline hard as it gears up for its new Belfast operation, while immunising pilots from disciplinary action.

The airline, which refused to comment on Tuesday, however, is expected to be examining if the pilots' withdrawal from training duties could spark any further disciplinary sanction by management.

The union has said it wants to solve the dispute without industrial action, and to negotiate, a path also urged by Taoiseach Bertie Ahern.

"Our line remains the same - we want to discuss it, we want to negotiate, we want to resolve the problem," an Impact spokesman said.
Belfast International Airport
Aer Lingus is setting up a hub at Belfast International

Privately, union members are likely to be very reluctant to strike, conscious that staff shareholdings acquired in last year's privatisation of Ireland's former national airline will be damaged if its overall financial health is affected by a dispute which could weaken the share price.

This may be why Aer Lingus management appears to be playing tough, confronting the pilots last week and also telling other staff it will not honour a pay award supposed to be paid as part of an Irish government-brokered national pay deal, unless staff accept the airline's cost reduction proposals.

A showdown may be part of Chief Executive Dermot Mannion's plans to streamline the airline, and develop a new post-privatisation culture in the face of stiff competition from bitter rival and substantial shareholder Ryanair.

The airline also faces stiff competition from rivals including Ryanair on almost all its UK and European routes, and British Midland on its routes across the Irish Sea.

With the new Belfast hub due to open in early December, the latest surprise move by pilots places more pressure on management to resolve the increasingly bitter dispute, and meet its deadline for take-off from Belfast.

Any uncertainty or postponement of the start of services from Belfast would represent a public relations disaster for the airline, already taking bookings for its advertised services to London Heathrow and European destinations from Aldergrove.

The stakes for the pilots are high too however, fearful that staff on lower pay and pensions at a base only 110 miles just up the road from Dublin could eventually reduce their own conditions, which are considerably better than those enjoyed by staff in rival Ryanair.

FO JimmieJames

11th Oct 2007, 10:09

Thanks Papa2 and Charlie and Wilby.

No one can tell me that this will be a boring Airline to work for! :E

Viva better conditions for all Pilots. All the best to the suspended pilots . . . True honour displayed! :ok:

gareth08

10th Jan 2008, 13:48

What's the current situation in Belfast now with EI now that operations have started...........

Any gossip from the insiders?

Bad Robot

10th Jan 2008, 21:03

An ex Colleague of mine who started on 10th of December says that,

"the whole operation is a shambles and very sloppy."

Her words and not mine.

BR.

gareth08

11th Jan 2008, 13:23

They appear to be operating quite a few of the same routes as Easy - apart from the LHR, should be interesting to see what happens there:E

Bearcat

11th Jan 2008, 18:54

the load factor are are so low on the AMS sector it's a joke. LHR - SNN dropped this weekend with good loads. BFS on LHR will be interesting. I think they made a dogs arse of it...time will tell.

stardustcologne

13th Jan 2008, 14:43

Hi!
Is there still the recruitment ban? I could not find any information about it.
Or did they sort it out in the meantime? Are the fired trainers re-employed??
Would there be any RE F/O for the A330fleet?

SKY's4ME

14th Jan 2008, 18:36

It will be interesting how much money per day! EI will be loosing at the moment out of BFS? Will the shareholders allow this to continue particularily with a global slowdown to contend with?

Boy

15th Jan 2008, 10:20

Some news is creeping out now about BFS. First, all current DE pilots have signed up to a contract without having all the information about their future situation. I know that at least two pilots have declined to sign up because there was no clarity available about important questions. These two were not prepared to accept promises that things would be sorted out later (one was told that the answer to a question he asked was "confidential" and he could only be told once he checked out and after arrived in BFS to start work). Also there are strong rumours that existing EI pilots have all declined BFS contracts due to the lack of clarity about conditions. Apparently EI have announced to at least one pilot that there will be no formal working conditions at the begining.

Some of the new DE pilots also seem to have picked up the idea that they will receive the same allowances, productivity pay, etc. as existing EI pilots, only to discover afterwards that this is not correct. Others refer to things they were told at interview which are different from the agreement for the BFS base. I suspect that all of this means is that there is going to be fun and games at BFS for months to come.