RAF Uniform - What do you think?

[Lima Juliet]

Here is a picture taken of the DCINC STC recently...
http://www.raf.mod.uk/stc/images/news_06_handover_03.jpg
"Harrier" flaps on boots, brevet on CS 95 and forage cap...

What do you think? I personally think "great", someone who is not bothered with the trivia of "Oh, I shouldn't be wearing that"! :ok:

He also wears a RAF pattern leather jacket with his blues :ok:

Comments?

LJ

[Hot Charlie]

I think by the time you're his rank, unless protocol dictates otherwise, you can pretty much whatever you like...

[rudekid]

He looks like an absolute pillock!

And the boot thing, tell me he's having a laugh...:rolleyes:

[goatmanni]

Good lad. See that CAS also has his flying badge on CS95.:}

[serf]

Also looks like he's waving at his mum.

[movadinkampa747]

It is good to see three RAF peeps and not one of them is dressed the same. Good to see traditions of the RAF being kept up, even by those at the top echelons of the service.

[Navaleye]

Hmnn... No comment. here's a Sunday night trivia question for you. Why are RAF uniforms blue (in colour)?

[Wayitup]

This explains everything...the RAF run by Mr Beans brother:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :D :D

[Climebear]

Here is a picture taken of the DCINC STC recently...

Not too recent - it was recently on this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2372371#post2372371) last February. You can tell the vintage because none of the 3 are wearing those new natty Tactical Recognition Flashes. The ones that identify us as being in the RAF - unless of course you don't know that the colours are the RAF colours in which case it just looks like any other Army TRF that you don't recognise. Given that every army corps/regt seems to have their own one (PARA has at least 4) there are many it's highly likely that most soldiers will not be able to identify the RAF one :ugh:

[vecvechookattack]

Ahhhh....Now I understand why the RAF are utterly, utterly useless.

[Jackonicko]

He should take a leaf from Patton's book and wear pearl handled revolvers on each hip.

And how about a Monty-type beret with badges all over it?

And Rommel-style sand goggles.



Where did they put the coats? I need to find mine.....

[Washington_Irving]

1. Who was the photographer if an Air Marshal felt the need to chuck one up?

2. What happens to the share price of Ginsters every time the chubby horror on the right deploys overseas? Furthermore, why is he looking so glum? Has the NAAFI wagon just driven off before he could get there?

3. Couldn't that Sgt on the left find any CS95 kit that fitted him? He looks like he's been playing dress-up in Daddy's wardrobe. Why can't he straighten his arms?

[Two's in]

I particularly like his approach to shirt sleeve order - not so far up that it is obviously shirt sleeve (1' above the elbow and 4' wide, if memory serves me), but likewise, not too far down that you can't get a nice Farmer's tan going. At least if this bloke was inspecting you, you know you would be bombproof. I wonder how many SWO's were rushed into intensive care after seeing this photo... Prepare for bombardment by the uniform police (Badges and Accoutrements Sub-group).

[ZH875]

Thunderbirds are go.......

[maxburner]

I suspect Clive wears his flying badge on his pyjamas. The boots, however, are another thing.....

[mutleyfour]

More importantly whats with the white on the blerk behind?

[mutleyfour]

Oh and whilst were on the subject of RAF Uniform why do you chaps insist on having a TRF (Tactical Recognition Flash) on your CS95 as well as the rather obvious statement above the right hand pocket?

[Molesworth Hold]

He should take a leaf from Patton's book and wear pearl handled revolvers on each hip.


Pearl handled? "Only a New Orleans pimp would carry a pearl handled revolver." I think they were Patton's words to a journalist who got it wrong. Patton had a pair of ivory handled, Colt Single Action Army .45 revolvers.

[Climebear]

Oh and whilst were on the subject of RAF Uniform why do you chaps insist on having a TRF (Tactical Recognition Flash) on your CS95 as well as the rather obvious statement above the right hand pocket?

Not to mention the distinctive beret badges and - for officers, NCA, chf techs, SACs (tech and non tech) and LACs - some fairly distinctive rank insignia.

[L J R]

But really chaps, who really gives a shi.t! Fly planes, drop bombs, go home, get paid, love wife. If they are worried about how I look, I would have joined the local butterfly collectors club.

[Comp Charlie]

I just wondered why an Army Sergeant is wearing a CS95 shirt with a 'Royal Air Force' name plate thing on them.

Unless of course he is ashamed of his RAF Blue Rank Slide and is a wannabe pongo...

CC

[Ken Scott]

Naval eye - why does the RAF wear blue, your trivia question?

As I recall, the Tsar (of Russia) had ordered some new cloth for his Imperial Guard's uniform, unfortunately there was a revolution & he didn't need the cloth any more. Shortly afterwards the RAF formed, the cloth was going begging, & the RAF's tradition of doing everything on ther cheap was started when it snapped it up - that it was roughly the colour of the sky was only fortuitous.

[BEagle]

At least Clive is wearing proper aircrew apparel....

Not the bona-mate piss-flap boots, but his Breitling Aerospace!!

Does he really wear the Aircrew Leather Jacket with blunty-blues? Sound fellow!

[mayorofgander]

Gentlemen;

Those will be the new slip-on boots....:\

Or Sir...can't do his shoelaces yet....!!!:p

MOG

[BeefyBoy]

Hmnn... No comment. here's a Sunday night trivia question for you. Why are RAF uniforms blue (in colour)?


I believe that when they were looking for a cloth for the soon to be formed RAF in 1918 they discover a huge stack of the stuff that had been ordered by the Tsar of Russia. It was and still is blue/grey as per the order. Obviously, he had at that point been deposed and the cloth was going nowhere! :D


Sorry Ken Scott, been sitting with the website open never saw your post until I came out of site and it updated as I went back in! At least we knew the answer!

[movadinkampa747]

Isnt that what Ken just said two posts up..................:rolleyes:

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Behold jointery in all its glory! If one wants to look like a bag of ****e tied up with string; CS95 DPM, it's there on a plate.

[shawshank]

I for one believe that the RAF should ditch it's No 2 blue uniform and replace it with CS95 (and growbags for the stick monkeys). It would shock a few people into remembering that we are a fighting and deployable force. It would also save a bob or two on the old supply (sorry 'stores') chain and logistics (especially if the Navy adopted it aswell). We would still have our corporate identity through our No 1s and No 5s and the 'TRF'. Anyone who comes up with a good reason for wearing blues to work should have the x-factor payment removed from their pay packet.

[Maple 01]

Tell my you're not in the RAF shawshank, if I'd wanted to be a pongo I'd have joined them!

corporate identity:yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

we've got one, it's blue, and there's a matching rucksack - move on

[Two's in]

CS 95 is a clever ploy by the Medical Branch - If it fits, you are in dire need of the services of a dietician or an orthopedic surgeon, thus removing the need to screen for these conditions.

[QFIhawkman]

(especially if the Navy adopted it aswell)

Yeah I can just see the need for DPM on a ship. I think fire retardant properties are at the top of Naval warfare clothing. Not looking like a bush in the middle of the Arabian Gulf. :hmm:

[ikea monster]

Always love crabs trying to dress up as soldiers. Famous Quote " The RAF does not have traditions - for they have only been established for less than 100 years, therefore they only have bad habits".

[althenick]

Just to add to Beefy and Ken's reply's

... Also the name "Crab Fat" came from the colour of the uniform as it was the same colour as the cream (AKA Crab-Fat)that the trench-Soldiers used to use to de-louse themselves.

Where's my Anorak?

[O2thief]

Once a single seat stick monkey always a single seat stick monkey. Saw him when he was OC Laarbruch in the early/mid 90's. Absolutley typical Harrier mate! I'll leave you to make your own minds up on that one. Notwithstanding that however, watch out for his immenent replacement; ex Bucc and GR1 SM what I used to fly behind, back in the middle 80's!! Wonder who that might be then?

Foldingwings might know though.

[Confucius]

At least Clive is wearing proper aircrew apparel....
Not the bona-mate piss-flap boots, but his Breitling Aerospace!!
Does he really wear the Aircrew Leather Jacket with blunty-blues? Sound fellow!

Isn't the Breitling Aerospace just a might banal these days?

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Althenick, Beefy and Ken.

At my mandatory Service history session at PEMBROKE, many, many years ago, we were told it was to do with the drums of crab fat that followed the RNAS around. The story was that it was used as a preservative on early flying machines. Accordingly, in the age-old tradition of banter, aviators and their riggers/mechanics/fitters were "Crab Fats". When the RNAS was subsumed within the RAF, the nickname went with it. That would predate any blue grey uniform, though.


Anorak dried and aired.

[djmarkmclachlan]

...The dude on the right avoided a slagging? He's a baboon. His heels are not together. His head is not high. His eyes are not forward. Don't let him near your kids - they'll be scarred for life. :)

[Wayitup]

Isn't the Breitling Aerospace just a might banal these days?
Looks like a KL/Bangkok copy to me so that's alright then ;) ;)

[ORAC]

Air of Authority - A History of RAF Organisation (http://http://www.rafweb.org/Menu.htm) In particular..... RFC, RNAS & RAF Ranks and Insignia (http://www.rafweb.org/ranksInd.htm). See the interim, Initial and Final Uniform Designs.

The original proposal (by Lt-Gen Sir David Henderson) was to use a combination of Naval and Army ranks for the new service. However, the War Office felt that the new service should have its own rank titles and also that the original list gave senior officers naval ranks and junior officers military ones. On the other hand, the Admiralty objected to the use of naval ranks, even with the addition of the word 'Air', and also suggested that the RAF adopt its own titles.

The final choice of titles are those still in use today and shown below. However prior to arriving at these an initial list of titles was suggested:-

Ensign, Lieutenant, Flight-Leader, Squadron-Leader, Reeve, Banneret, Fourth-Ardian, Third-Ardian, Second-Ardian, Ardian, Air Marshal.

Ardian was derived from the Gaelic 'Ard' meaning Chief and 'Ian' or 'Eun' meaning Bird............... :}

[Mr C Hinecap]

I remember the 1st request from OOA for a set of brevets so the det cdr could have them on his combats - 96-97 IIRC - we laughed our bits off - how sad. Shame it has perpetuated.
Boots are either for flying in or walking in - and I doubt he is going to fly in that uniform. Sleeves are either up or down, not jauntily in between. Chip bags are for blues or flying suits, berets are for combats. :ugh:

[Rigga]

I knew I recognised him.
I gave him one of those "Anannuvverfing" finger-jabbing conversations when I left the RAF at Laarbruch.
Nice to see his standards are still confused, and that he has learned to wear only one face at a time. (...or is he just better at hiding all the others now?)
He is also very vindictive and good at stitching up people he doesn't like - to the very greatest degree - for the slightest hiccup. (and No, He didn't do it to me!)

[stickmonkeytamer]

He also has a "Star Plate" on his Harley, but we can't talk about that here...:=
SMT

[WebPilot]

Be nice if he could wear his hat properly as well! Looks like a burger flipper worn like that!!!

[BEagle]

"....berets are for combats"

How appallingly working class.

[Maple 01]

I agree with BEags, no self respecting officer should be seen in that abomination for French cross-dressers that is the beret.

Equally we working class and grammar school erks should be required to sport 'chip bags' at the appropriate jaunty angle with a Woodbine tucked behind one ear

Start the campaign for Real Air Force now!
Say NO to rucksacks!
Au revoir to grunt like DPMs.
Revel in the random nature of blues

NO TWO DRESSED THE SAME is mandatory; we are individuals, not numbers!

[allan907]

You would have loved it as a flt/sqn cdr at IOT Maple. We almost used to have competitions to see how "different but normal" we could be!

[Maple 01]

One of my bosses, who was a top bloke, but the scruffiest b******r I ever knew (and that's by my low standards) became a sqn cdr at IOT. It was a good job for him that we were about the same size or he'd have pitched up looking like a scarecrow - why do Flt Lts never have any money?

[detgnome]

Beags and Maple - I think you'll find berets de-rigeuer in the RW world - it separates us from those who cannot use their hands and feet at the same time!

[Roland Pulfrew]

Beags and Maple - I think you'll find berets de-rigeuer in the RW world - it separates us from those who cannot use their hands and feet at the same time!
When I went through IOT my flt cdr taught us all that "berets were for airmen and Regt officers". Any self respecting officer would of course wear an SD hat with DPM....................................................usual ly with green wellies:ok:
I hope the future CinC STC continues to wear leather jacket and blues. :D Provides rather good top cover from the uniform nazis, anyone got a picture?

[Mr C Hinecap]

Beags - we all have roots and I am rather proud of mine. Anyhoo - it is a good job that I prefer to set high standards rather than follow bad ones. You'd think the men at the top would change the rules if they're so daft rather than be so random and contrary.

[BEagle]

"berets were for airmen and Regt officers"

There's a difference?

Aircrew Leather Jacket, wedgewood blue shirt, black tie, No 2 trousers with USAF belt...and flying boots with the BX uniform store zip jobbers. With or without the 'bona mate' piss-flaps.

Oh - and SD hat, of course.

That would be almost as good as the old (pre-1972 pattern Thunderbird jacket) V-force and Lightning pilot zip-pocket barathea No 2 battledress of the mid-60s.

So much smarter than clockwork squaddie 95! Particularly with common oik beret!

[pigsinspace]

1. Who was the photographer if an Air Marshal felt the need to chuck one up?
2. What happens to the share price of Ginsters every time the chubby horror on the right deploys overseas? Furthermore, why is he looking so glum? Has the NAAFI wagon just driven off before he could get there?
3. Couldn't that Sgt on the left find any CS95 kit that fitted him? He looks like he's been playing dress-up in Daddy's wardrobe. Why can't he straighten his arms?


Care to post a photo of yourself in standard issue uniform, so we can see how good you look? I guess you will not be a Tom Cruise or Patrick Swazie lookalike,

Photo where your mouth is please..

[BEagle]

Actually, I suppose Clockwork Squaddie 95 is at least smarter than that awful blue pullover thing. Particularly with giant white moth on port tit...

Are they still issuing that thing?

Only at prep-school did one have a uniform which included a V-neck pullover and tie....

[Monty77]

Well, at least he restricted himself to just the one cap badge and no donkey jacket.

[Mr C Hinecap]

Aircrew Leather Jacket, wedgewood blue shirt, black tie, No 2 trousers with USAF belt...and flying boots with the BX uniform store zip jobbers. With or without the 'bona mate' piss-flaps.
Oh - and SD hat, of course.
That would be almost as good as the old (pre-1972 pattern Thunderbird jacket) V-force and Lightning pilot zip-pocket barathea No 2 battledress of the mid-60s.
So much smarter than clockwork squaddie 95! Particularly with common oik beret!

Probably fine for the Cold War Warrior Aircrew of yore, but we've moved on a little - perhaps not progress in many eyes, but different. We can now get kit that is more suited to the operational environment rather than looking dapper between the HAS and the Mess.

[Phil_R]

Hi,

Shouldn't have started reading this while drinking coffee as most of it has been explosively snorted out of my nose while engaging in loud, involuntary laughter.

Personally I have no opinion on uniform although one actress I once spoke to about playing an RAF role squealed "Do I have to wear those shoes?"

"No," quoth I drolly, "Most of the time you get to wear a... well, a boiler suit."

Phil

[BEagle]

Most actors and actresses 'playing an RAF role' are in Main Building, aren't they?

Sitting on such nice, expensive computer chairs when not admiring the £100K + oil paintings or plasma screen TVs.

[Cumbrian Fell]

And what is wrong with a good bespoke suit, a fine shirt and a natty tie, Mr C Hinecap....after all, that is what a number of RAF Officers in Whitehall wear (although, I admit, a number are rather Chavvy in their dress - insisting, for instance, naming their coat a 'jacket'. Jackets are worn by potatoes, IIRC...)

[mutleyfour]

I agree with BEags, no self respecting officer should be seen in that abomination for French cross-dressers that is the beret.
Equally we working class and grammar school erks should be required to sport 'chip bags' at the appropriate jaunty angle with a Woodbine tucked behind one ear
Start the campaign for Real Air Force now!
Say NO to rucksacks!
Au revoir to grunt like DPMs.
Revel in the random nature of blues
NO TWO DRESSED THE SAME is mandatory; we are individuals, not numbers!

Since when have you lot been individual? Great herds of folk a wandering around the Station in green babygro's (even in non flying posts) is hardly being individual now is it?

[Mr C Hinecap]

And what is wrong with a good bespoke suit, a fine shirt and a natty tie, Mr C Hinecap....after all, that is what a number of RAF Officers in Whitehall wear (although, I admit, a number are rather Chavvy in their dress - insisting, for instance, naming their coat a 'jacket'. Jackets are worn by potatoes, IIRC...)

I shall read this post to you, verbatim, when you visit my office in your next guise Mr Fell. You shall cease and desist about your exotic recent past and fall into line with the rest of your sort and I shall delight in your suffering.

[greycoat]

Navaleye, are you referring to the No 5 Dress Uniform(Officers)? If so it was because there was a surplus of material going very cheap since it no longer had a customer following the overthrow of the Russian czars etc

[Flt Lt Spry]

Since when have you lot been individual? Great herds of folk a wandering around the Station in green babygro's (even in non flying posts) is hardly being individual now is it?

Are you the stroker who's just told the Lo$$iemouth Stn Cdr that you've seen too many aircrew in Elgin wearing flying suits whilst doing their shopping? Is that you? Are you the one who thinks it would be a good idea to start an agreement with Kinlo$$ to police the issue more carefully?

If you look closely, each flying suit (normally) has the wearer's name written on it. It doesn't really get more individual than that does it?

[mutleyfour]

"STROKER"!!

Hmm touched a nerve there then.

[ORAC]

If you look closely, each flying suit (normally) has the wearer's name written on it. It doesn't really get more individual than that does it?

I think we've had a couple of threads about name tags (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=208348&highlight=badge)....... :hmm:

[DON T]

The British Army used to wear red tunics so that it didn't show the blood in battle.

I wonder why they wear brown trousers now?

[Avtur]

Please guys, stop all this slagging... Yes the RAF are no winners in the Military uniform stakes, but we get given what we are given. Yes we look like a bag of wan4 . we may not provide the ideal air asset at the ideal time ( but give our lives to try), or provide a club-class lounge at evry FOB: We do try to do the best we can given what we have to work with.

Want support; try you MP...

[Comp Charlie]

I've never understood the need or requirement to flounce around in a flying suit when not actually flying.

Why do people feel the need to do this?

And why oh why turn up for CCS in a flying suit? You're just asking for a gassing of massive proportions!!

Don't bother with the 'its my working dress' rubbish. Techies work in grimy oil soaked coveralls, yet if they were to turn up in the mess/ admin HQ/ CCS wearing them then their feet wouldn't touch the floor.

In short, if you are not briefing to fly, actually flying, or debriefing then stop dressing like a pillock.

CC

ps This is not a uniform jealousy thing either. I have badged up flying suits. I just wouldn't be seen dead wearing one if not in an aircraft.

[QFIhawkman]

I've never understood the need or requirement to flounce around in a flying suit when not actually flying.

Why do people feel the need to do this?

And why oh why turn up for CCS in a flying suit? You're just asking for a gassing of massive proportions!!

Don't bother with the 'its my working dress' rubbish. Techies work in grimy oil soaked coveralls, yet if they were to turn up in the mess/ admin HQ/ CCS wearing them then their feet wouldn't touch the floor.

In short, if you are not briefing to fly, actually flying, or debriefing then stop dressing like a pillock.

CC

ps This is not a uniform jealousy thing either. I have badged up flying suits. I just wouldn't be seen dead wearing one if not in an aircraft.

There's a first time in your life for everything, and agreeing with CC has just hit my list. (Sorry to buck the trend CC!)

I know that there is a Wg Cdr Ops at a secret London airbase who wears a growbag, although he doesn't fly. AT ALL. (He's not even Q'd on the aircraft types at that station).

There is another who is in charge of Ops at an AT base who wears a growbag.

The question has to be asked. WHY??? Coppers don't wear their flourescent jacket, movers don't wear their yellow vests, and Educ Sect Sgts don't wear blues at CCS (Citing "working dress"!)

I've seen officers turn up for CCS in a growbag and an SD hat FFS. And they wonder why they get gassed?

I must admit, I groan when I see the likes of DCINC STC wearing a rubbish jumble of uniform he seems to have authorised on the day.

Attack all you like fellow aircrew. It gives everybody the wrong impression, no matter what rank you are. Harrier boots, forage cap, brevet on S95, etc.

The man at the top sets the example.

Can we really wonder why people are now wandering around their stations with a pic of said man in their back pocket? Any charge from the SWO of being improperly dressed is now impotent thanks to our new rash of "no win no fee" solicitiors.

Cheers Clive.

And roll your sleeves up!

[arismount]

In the Big One (WW2), George Patton carried a variety of handguns. The two he most commonly carried were a Colt Peacemaker in .45 Long Colt, and a Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum. He also carried (most often as a hideout) the Colt .32 ACP automatic that at one time was issued to General officers in the U.S. Army.

[Mad_Mark]

Techies work in grimy oil soaked coveralls, yet if they were to turn up in the mess/ admin HQ/ CCS wearing them then their feet wouldn't touch the floor.

The difference is that 'coveralls' are just that, they cover all the standard uniform that is worn underneath. They are designed to be worn over the working blue uniform. A flying suit, on the other hand, is designed to be worn over issued thermal underware and roll-neck shirt.

A techy can simply take his/her 'coveralls' off and still be correctly dressed in order to go to the mess. If aircrew simply took their flying suit off they would be walking around in their underware - probably be frowned on in the mess even more than the flying suit :rolleyes:

However, there is no excuse for those that need to get changed into emersion suits, g-pants, etc to go flying. If you need to get changed to fly then you may as well wear blues at all other times :ouch:

MadMark!!! :mad:

[Blacksheep]

Whenever the talk gets round to uniform matters, as it inevitably does, I always think that uniform should be practical and equip the wearer for the proper performance of their duties.

One is reminded of Chief Technician Frank Parson's comment, when challenged on the 'flyaway' style (as preferred by most 1950/60's Chiefies) of his headgear, that "berets is fer keepin' the oil outta yer 'air." Frank of course generally sported black wellington boots, a brown dustcoat with custom built aluminium C/T arm badges rivetted to the sleeves and tied round the middle with a sisal string 'belt.' A paragon of practicality that would have confounded any enemy sniper.

I think the Air Marshal looks quite dapper - with that natty hat he'd certainly never be mistaken for either a civilian or a common or garden Lieutenant General. The return of spats is only to be welcomed as they keep the water out of the brogues when out shooting. I do also like the way he has his sleeves rolled up as a gentleman. I squirm when ever I see officers with their sleeves rolled up workman fashion above the elbow. Its just so common.

[allan907]

A flying unit (probably clocking up far more hours than anyone in today's RAF).
2 x working No 1s
2 x old style barrathea battledresses
1 x old style "hairy blue" battledress

.......and not a grow bag in sight! oh, and drinking during working hours - now that wouldn't be allowed now - would it?

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c92/allan907/IMG-2.jpg

[BEagle]

An interesting period photo! Also, those V-bomber types would have had the benefit of a huge changing room/safety equipment store and their own clothing lockers - so easy enought to change before flight from uniform into immersion suit etc. Also to have a hot shower and put uniform back on after flying - then down to the OM bar for 5 pints!

Each....

Probably only flew twice per week, plus some admin or other work on maybe one or two days. Overseas trips? 1 or 2 Goose Rangers and an Offutt Ranger each per year.

An altogether far more agreeable lifestyle.

[Pontius Navigator]

Sorry, the two on the right are wearing flying suits. A suit is a two-piece garment. The growbag is a coverall. The winter two-piece is a flying suit.

These flying suits were issued to Mark 2 V-bomber crews and Lightning crews. The clue is to sewn down epaulettes. The later lookalike battle dress had proper epaulettes.

Sometime we would simply remove the jacket and pull a flying coverall over the top. We invariably flew with all our flying suits in a diversion bag so that we would be nattily dressed in case of diversion.

At Prestwich once, as our crew was correctly dressed but the bosses crew only had grow bags I was despatched to the airport terminal to buy diversion kit. For the bosses crew it was one of everything. Our crew settled for one razor with 5 blades, one tube of tooth paste and 5 toothbrushes. We had lots of spare drinking tickets.

[spectre150]

You could extend the 'why wear a flying suit when you are not actually flying' argument to CS95 (which is where this thread started). RAF Regt aside, you could ask why are so many RAF folks wear CS95 as their normal 'working' dress. Maybe they too should wear blues then change into CS95 when they are actually doing something that requires then to wear disruptive pattern pyjamas. There is a lot of CS95 at the secret combined HQ in the Chilterns - maybe because it is free from stores.

Can Royal explain why some Booties wear desert DPM for a couple of weeks prior to deployment?

:ugh:

[Roland Pulfrew]

And roll your sleeves up!


I am with Blacksheep on this one. A gentleman would never roll his shirt sleeves up beyond the elbow. Far too working class!!;)

And CC. We wear flying kit because it is our war dress (unless you are SH). The groundcrews war dress is CS95. Spot the difference?:E

[Pontius Navigator]

Can Royal explain why some Booties wear desert DPM for a couple of weeks prior to deployment?
:ugh:

Probably to make sure the buttons stay on, seams don't open, and they fit properly. No aircrew would take a new flying suit out of the box and go fly. Gotta get the creases out first.

[Maple 01]

Actually Roland my war dress at one point was a nice two piece suit, iffy tie and umbrella (obviously not bespoke, M&S special suit, polyester tie) there may have been some other accoutrements, I forget. CS95? Baaaaahhh humbug! We lower-orders have standards too...

[DON T]

In my early days in the RAF I worked in close proximity to many aircrew (dentist) and I must say many of them niffed a bit when they attended in their growbags. The best were the aircrew that obviously had special growbags for walking out. They didn't niff and they all had extra badges on them. Passed the time reading the badges whilst the anaesthetic worked.:bored:

[Roland Pulfrew]

Actually Roland my war dress at one point was a nice two piece suit, iffy tie and umbrella (obviously not bespoke, M&S special suit, polyester tie) there may have been some other accoutrements, I forget. CS95? Baaaaahhh humbug! We lower-orders have standards too...

M01. Likewise. Nothing wrong with M & S Finest 2 piece as a working suit, but surely it would have to be a silk tie. Polyester? :yuk: ;)

[Maple 01]

I could only afford silk ties after demob! Almost a gentleman now.....

[allan907]

Beagle & Pontious - recognise any of them? (Yours truly in hairy blue and hairy lip - long since gone!)

[teeteringhead]

Worst RAF uniform selection I saw was in Las Malvinas one time I was there (86 or 87-ish?) when the RAF Staff College visited.

Their prescribed uniform was as follows - and I'm not making it up!

Combat jacket and trousers, DMS boots and puttees (remember them!). "Elastics" on the puttees were apparently forbidden, so trousers were totally inside puttees for added elegance.

Wedgewood blue shirts, ties and blue vee-neck jumpers (then the latest thing, which many had to buy to conform!) .... and SD hats!

I may just have a picture somewhere .....

Brought tears to the eyes of this beret-wearing (working-class, grammar-school educated, non-graduate etc etc) SH bloke and took some explaining to the Army mates I was working with at the time........

... but I do not own any polyester - whatever that may be.....

[tonkatechie]

A flying unit (probably clocking up far more hours than anyone in today's RAF).
2 x working No 1s
2 x old style barrathea battledresses
1 x old style "hairy blue" battledress
.......and not a grow bag in sight! oh, and drinking during working hours - now that wouldn't be allowed now - would it?
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c92/allan907/IMG-2.jpg
Aah, some fine gentlemen showing the way no less. However, perhaps Sirs would like to get their hands out their pockets, maybe visit the hairdresser, and most of all get off the f:mad: ing grass!!
A techy can simply take his/her 'coveralls' off and still be correctly dressed in order to go to the mess. If aircrew simply took their flying suit off they would be walking around in their underware - probably be frowned on in the mess even more than the flying suit :rolleyes:

Any techie who actually works would sweat their :mad: off with blues on under coveralls - trust me, you don't wanna see me out of mine:uhoh: :yuk:

[allan907]

Tonka They were celebrating the placement of the new unit signboard in 1972 or 1973. Where did you want them to stand - a mile away on the concrete? :ugh:

[tonkatechie]

Tonka They were celebrating the placement of the new unit signboard in 1972 or 1973. Where did you want them to stand - a mile away on the concrete? :ugh:
Erm, I hope you're not a navigator, beacause the path behind them isn't a mile away.....but never mind that, can I have my hook back please?:}

[QFIhawkman]

Tonka They were celebrating the placement of the new unit signboard in 1972 or 1973. Where did you want them to stand - a mile away on the concrete? :ugh:

And their excuse for having hands in pockets, and the enormous bouffant in the centre?
(And the fact that those working No.1s haven't seen an iron in about 5 years!)

Standards gentlemen.

[Cumbrian Fell]

The worthy characters in the photo are notable by the absence of medal ribbons, compared with todays' average (sic) junior officer. However, bring back No 1s as an alternative to a suit, I say...

Now domociled in an Army Mess - turned up late from the office the other night and put a No 1 coat over my No 2s in order to enter the Dining Room after normal working hours. The expression amongst the Donkey Wallopers was one of incredulity...Why wasn't I wearing russet cords with my No 1s?

[BEagle]

He's just standing in front of a tree, surely?

And what is wrong with standing on the grass? If cows can eat it, dogs can crap on it, aircrew can walk on it!

As for sartorial standards, these are mad GSU boffins. They probably have slide rules in their pockets, odd socks and curled up collars - so it's amazing that they are even wearing RAF uniform of a recognisable pattern at all!

By the way, one has one's No. 1 pressed by one's batman. Or by a dry cleaner. One most certainly does not 'iron' it!

[The Gorilla]

Those were the days when being the RAAAAF meant having fun, kudos, a good time, time to enjoy with your mates and family and above all a laugh.
Happy days long gone!:ugh:

[Maple 01]

And their excuse for having hands in pockets, and the enormous bouffant in the centre?
SOPs in the Real Air Force old boy, are you some kind of undercover pongo or SWO? ;)

[allan907]

....and yer didn't iron the hairy blues - yer hammered them! And to get the creases to stay in one put soap on the insides to glue them together! 'Twas a bugger in the rain. :ok: CS 95??? Fit for woozes only

[Blacksheep]

...notable by the absence of medal ribbons, They never gave out campaign medals for the Cold War. Even though we won it. :hmm:

As for desert rig, this is what a proper Bomber Squadron looked like when "in theatre" in 1970. http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/vulcan_people/35sqn_masirah.jpg

and this is a proper V Bomber crew haircut...
http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/vulcan_people/jg.jpg

[QFIhawkman]

Spot the tit!

:}

[allan907]

Aaahh....the mighty ration box!

[BluntedAtBirth]

and this is a proper V Bomber crew haircut...
http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/vulcan_people/jg.jpg

If you have a picture of the lady in the magazine as she is today - please keep it to yourself!

[spectre150]

2 Nav bags and 5 holdalls, that's a lot of porn G*ggy.:=

[pigsinspace]

"Are you the stroker who's just told the Lo$$iemouth Stn Cdr that you've seen too many aircrew in Elgin wearing flying suits whilst doing their shopping? "

Why would you want to go to the supermarket or general shopping in any uniform? It makes you an obvious tarket for all kinds of nutters. Al Quieda, IRA,
etc etc

[Wader2]

(And the fact that those working No.1s haven't seen an iron in about 5 years!)

Blame the batman. My batman was the last person to press my No 1s.

Sorry Beagle, saw your post too late.

The GSU weren't the real boffins. Thems was the BCDU guys, later CTTO.

[BEagle]

Just don't let J** McD***s near that ration box......:ooh:

Not known as 'Logger' or 'wee Jock poo-pong McPlop' for nothing!

[Pontius Navigator]

Allan,

I think 2nd right is B*b T*****s not long after winning the SAC Navigation Trophy for night celestial navigation. Extreme left could be F***k L** but not sure. I recognise, but cannot name, the extreme right, AEO I think.

[allan907]

Pontious 2nd right correct, extreme left I think correct, extreme right was a nav - I think Nav Radar - but unfortunately don't have the names on the back of the photo.

[Dan Winterroll]

The boots are a bit much but at least he is wearing his wings and the chipbag is the only bit of RFC uniform we have left. We need to stop being scared of being seen as different and pretending we are in the Army. One thing they don't do is dress the same! As for GDT in flying suits I guess for that training for war one should wear what you would go to war in....not what keeps the Regt happy!

[c17age]

That surely isn't Mr Gegg at work and not on the golf course is it!

Full flap please eng!!!:O

[Maple 01]

The brown gloves for officers are the last vestiges of the RFC I think, the RNAS gave us eagle/albatross badges. Pop over to Cosford if you get a chance, they have a display of uniforms from 1914 to date and you can trace fashions through the years
(OK, anorak on, go)

[225Turbo]

Clive has done well though to be fair, i remember him as 'arry staish of Laarbruch up until it closed.

[brit bus driver]

I know that there is a Wg Cdr Ops at a secret London airbase who wears a growbag, although he doesn't fly. AT ALL. (He's not even Q'd on the aircraft types at that station).

I beg to differ....you obviously don't know as much as you'd like to think you do...:hmm:

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

Uniforms? Those aren't uniforms.




THESE are uniforms. . .

http://members.aol.com/geobat66/galland/galland3.jpg

[Roland Pulfrew]

http://members.aol.com/geobat66/galland/galland3.jpg

I particularly like the 1000 mission hat, tall of peak, flat of sides. Reminds me of an early SD hat of mine - a "Bates" IIRC, can you still get them? So much smarter than the frying pan version often sold nowadays.

And didn't the Luftwaffe often fly in a very smart leather jacket, or was that just in the film The Battle of Britain?:E

[Skunkerama]

Yeah but the bad guys always get the coolest uniforms, just look at Star Wars.

[spectre150]

I particularly like the cap at the required jaunty angle (some might even say rakish), the gay roll neck sweater, and the 'wurst' around the waist (presumably in-flight rations for a quick snack between bouncing schpitfeur). Donner und blitzen, those were the days.

[Skunkerama]

How about this for pilots


http://images.entertainmentearth.com/%5CAUTOIMAGES%5CAC143lg.jpg


And this for the police manning the gate

http://www.wiseguyspromo.com/StarWars_Imperial_Guard_1.jpg


And for the Air chief marshall

http://www.erikssonstunnbrod.se/max/flash4.jpg

[doubledolphins]

Why do all Air Force officers wear flying suits in ops rooms (some times deep underground) for NATO exercises.Even if they are not, and never have been, aircrew? I mean, if I wore my submariners roll neck you would think I was mad.
Ps. Our gloves are also ,brown so you got them from the RNAS too. There was a whole thread about that. Other bits of RNAS include the rank of Flight Lieutenant and the rank stripe system. You used to have gold stripes on your day No 1s as well as mess kit (Recently re introduced by your Band Masters.)
Your officers Cap Badge is very much like the RNAS one. Eagle replacing the RN fouled anchor. I believe your officers buttons are like RNAS ones.Your sword just replaces our lions head with an eagle's. Of course your black tie came from the RNAS. The style of uniform came from the army as did your shoes and boots. Ours do not have toe caps. lastly, going back to the original pic, your salute came from the army because unlike sailors, airmen never get their hands dirty! (As did the outrageous custom of sitting down wearing a cap behind a desk to deliver an interview with or with out coffee.)

[Wader2]

But the Russians always wear No 1s, or whatever they call them, with peaked dress caps in doors. Its in all the films.:)

[ORAC]

Why do all Air Force officers wear flying suits in ops rooms (some times deep underground) for NATO exercises.Even if they are not, and never have been, aircrew? Well I have worked in bunkers up and down the east coast, the bunker at HQ11Gp and the bunker at the CAOC at HW for over 20 years, I never wore a flying suit in my life. In fact, I never had a flying suit. :confused:

Though if I had one, and had the option of wearing it instead of a full set of DPMs, wooly-pully, boots etc in a bl**dy hot ops room, I might have tried to get away with it......

ps1. If attached "type/role SMEs" had a Sqn or aircraft badge on, it made find the right person to ask a question a bit easier.

ps2. If anti-flash was so vital, how come the NLOs never brought their´s along with them? :}

[forget]

KD uniforms (Khaki Drill) were always open to personal taste. Note the Flight Sergeant far right, Blacksheep will remember his name. Taken at Luqa, I think, 67. His particular Khaki was, I’ll guarantee, bought at Charlie’s in Tengah Village.

Charlie, “Ah, wot correr Fright Sergeant like his KD?” “A pale cream perhaps, with just a hint of puce”. “No probrem, ready 1 hour”.

My own kit was enhanced by an Aussie bush hat liberated from Darwin, back row second from left.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/cumpas/KD.jpg

[doubledolphins]

ORAC, "On NATO exercises" I supose I should have said "In Maritime Ops on NATO exercises". I only sleep (and drink) at Bently Priory now and again, not work there. Sorry.
Also this never happens at Faslane where the only people in Ops wearing "you can't see me suits" are pongos and booties. Freshly laundered light blue shirts much in evidence. (Unlike PJHQ, were we are all guilty!)
ps1. Anti flash is a loan item, not personal issue. (It is very useful on 5 Nov if you can scrounge some!)
ps2. Was always a little bit sceptical about the Imperial Russian thing but have just seen todays Telegraph (on line as well). I am now convinced. Look at the pics of the guard with the old Tsarina's coffin.

[ricardian]

....and yer didn't iron the hairy blues - yer hammered them! And to get the creases to stay in one put soap on the insides to glue them together! 'Twas a bugger in the rain. :ok: CS 95??? Fit for woozes only

Hairy blue battledress was never going to look smart - especially when tall (6 ft 4 ins) and thin (12 stone) like me. Wearing best blue was a suitable alternative although frowned upon by the hierarchy because it created "excessive wear". When I left the RAF in 1973 there were rumours of a revolutionary development - in future we were to be issued with collar-attached shirts, no more collar studs.
As for working with the army - I spent about 3 years attached to 24 Brigade as part of an FAC team. The RAF issued me with 1939 pattern webbing - the army told me to keep it in the back of my locker and gave me 1959 pattern webbing. The RAF issued me with a pair of CWW (cold, wet weather) boots that weighed a ton - the army told me to keep them in my locker too and gave me proper DMS boots. My finest hour during my time with 24 Bde was during a winter exercise in Northern Germany - cold, wet, muddy and living in 2-man bivouacs. The AOC decided to visit but it appears someone did not give him or his ADC a proper briefing because he turned up in his very best number 1 Home Dress complete with greatcoat and shoes (no sword though) - watching him tippy-toeing around the duckboards trying not to slip flat on his back was a delight! The army thought it hilarious and just another of the RAF's eccentric customs.

[foldingwings]

Why do all Air Force officers wear flying suits in ops rooms

I guess because we can! And probably like Gen Moseley,

http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_awst_story.jsp?id=news/aw092506p2.xml

after a full career, I'm running out of shirts that I have to buy but the Government provide me with a flying suit free!

Foldy

[Wader2]

like Gen Moseley,

What looks better and gets the message across? Smart BDU and chest of medals that people try and count or a flight suit with operational patches that everyone recognises as operational air force?

Whitehall warrior in a TV studio in what looks like an overseas tropical uniform or one in CS95 in somewhere that looks hot and dusty?

Don't know if the pic will take but is of the CAS.

http://defenceintranet.diiweb.r.mil.uk/NR/rdonlyres/82F810B8-0F62-4AEF-B42C-757789E1BF24/0/RAFRegt.JPG

[Skunkerama]

Simple....just grow a huge and outrageous handlebar moustache. Then we would know exactly who you are, and start saying spiffing, what ho chaps and tally ho.

Matloet admiralson TV should all grow big white beards and go "arrgghhh jim lad, that she be" etc and talk about fishfingers a lot.

Pongo occifers should appear on TV with riding crops, no chin and a monacle with names like major General Wupert Chumnly-Carstairs.

[O2thief]

2 Nav bags and 5 holdalls, that's a lot of porn G*ggy.:=
Bugger that's my cover blown completley! Guilty as charged, read some porn in my time guvenor. A**y L****h took the piccie, some dank V-bomber airfield in the late 70's. (I think it might have been Wyton). A lot less hair these day's. I blame the station barbers who kept on triming the hairs in my ears, after a while it all migrated down there!

[DON T]

Just goes to show that a chip bag hat can change anything! It doesn't look like G****y G**G but I've only seen him on the golf course. Mind he was interviewed on the telly once and muttered a rude word after a trip to Bagdahd in 1991.

[tabloz]

Hmnn... No comment. here's a Sunday night trivia question for you. Why are RAF uniforms blue (in colour)?

Something to do with a large order of cloth redirected from Czarist Russia 100 odd years ago. Same colour as a grease that was used to cure crabs (hence Crab Air/Crab Fat...etc)

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

Isn't there a F/L QFI at Cranditz who still sports a spiffingly huge handlebar 'tache? Flies a Spitfire.

[Maple 01]

Now that's true style! Perchance he smokes a pipe and drinks pints?
No nanby-pamby CS95 for that chap I'd suggest- more a hairy-Mary sort

[SirToppamHat]

I tried to buy a Chip Bag last year at Snaiths Cranwell, but at £46 for one that was not padded I decided to give it a miss - especially as the assistant declared that only Air Rank Officers' side hats were padded.

They've obviously had a few more enquiries along the same lines, because the latest ones are padded - apparently. Anyway, I popped in there today and the very latest batch they have received from the manufacturer have been made to the older spec - red lining, not padded. Also, the badge is fastened inside the hat (backing plate and pins not hidden within the lining). When I suggested to the nice lady that this was surely a good thing so that the badge could more easily be removed for washing, she went a funny colour and insisted the hats should only ever be dry-cleaned! Have you ever heard of such a thing?

Now for the imprtant bit: They are selling them off for £20 a piece. Needless to say, at less than half-price I had one and told the chaps back at the secret Hawk base on the A15 to get their orders in quick. They had about 40 left - mainly 58 and 59 that I saw, but there may have been others.

Mods - sorry about the advertising, I am nothing to do with the company; just thought I'd share the info before the VR(T) guys get them all. Won't be the least bit offended if you bin the post.

STH

PS. I am sure that WOs in the late 80s were wearing forage caps with crowns and eagles on them (ie same as officers). However, they now seem to wear them with WO beret badges (or something very similar). Is my memory going or can anyone else out there recall similar??

[dragon166]

SirTophamHat

You are correct in that, throughout the history of wearing the FS cap Warrant Officers wore the Officers cap Badge, eagle and crown. However AP1358 (6th edition), of 2004, quotes the wearing of a WO Beret badge on the hat in lieu of the Officers version. Similarly, I had never seen a Gp Capt wearing a FS cap and had assumed it would be of normal Officer pattern if so worn. However, the same AP now quotes them as wearing the same pattern as an Air Officer albeit with the standard Officer beret badge attached.

dragon166

[Pontius Navigator]

The forage cap was often a sore point with gp capts, especially stn cdrs. They didn't like wearing the same headgear as the junior officers.

At Akrotiri early 70s, OC Bomber, M*** B, always wore an SD hat until there was a big security exercise. To avoid being kidnapped be borrowed a forage cap.

At least with an air officer's cap they are ready to join the airship club.

[O2thief]

Isn't there a F/L QFI at Cranditz who still sports a spiffingly huge handlebar 'tache? Flies a Spitfire.


C*****e B***n; ex GR1 stick monkey and member of 17 (Fighter) Sqn.: ok:
O2T

[forget]

[QUOTE=Blacksheep;2872816]One is reminded of Chief Technician Frank Parson's comment, when challenged on the 'flyaway' style (as preferred by most 1950/60's Chiefies) of his headgear, that "berets is fer keepin' the oil outta yer 'air." Frank of course generally sported black wellington boots, a brown dustcoat with custom built aluminium C/T arm badges rivetted to the sleeves and tied round the middle with a sisal string 'belt.' QUOTE]

That amused me; I remember Frank Parsons well. A guy you just had to like and admire. I was a JT at the time and I couldn’t, at first, figure out how he got away with his own interpretation of RAF uniform; and I can confirm the sisal string 'belt and home made riveted Chief Tech badge. It wasn’t just the uniform. His whole appearance made him look like he should be two fields over fixing Massey Fergusons rather than Vulcans. After a few months it dawned on me how he got away with it. The bosses, Group Captain down it seems, knew something I hadn’t twigged. He had the energy of ten men, and did the work of ten men. Why mess with an asset like that!

[blodwyn]

Great advert for the Royal Air Farce !:ok:

[Washington_Irving]

Care to post a photo of yourself in standard issue uniform, so we can see how good you look? I guess you will not be a Tom Cruise or Patrick Swazie lookalike,
Photo where your mouth is please..

Would I be correct in assuming that you are either the Cookie Monster on the right of the original picture or his boyfriend?

[Navaleye]

BeefyBoy and Ken Scott. Correct answers! Redundant Russian cavalry uniform material that just happened to be the right colour. The cheque is in the post.

[Windbag]

I have heard from a pongo that they are thinking of bringing back barrack dress due to CS95 wearing out too quickly in the orofice environment, now there's an invitation to a fancy dress competition, just how many different combinations of trouser/shirt/tie/jumper/socks.shoes/hat/sundry acoutrements does the army have?? I remember working with a chap from the Kings at Cranditz, he wore green trousers and a royal blue shirt (very similar to techy blue shirt)!! Then another chap from RTR used to wander around with a bit of twig, no doubt for bashing the front of tanks to make them work!!
I think the term uniform leaves much to be desired, especially with the new shiny blue shellsuit trousers that are being issued. Why can't we get kit issued that:
a. Lasts more than 6 months (cf CS95 & shiny blue trousers, 6 months before your tackle starts to poke thro the material!!:\
b. Looks 'professional'.:ugh:
c. Is comfortable to wear.

Obviously the brains down at DCTA IPT have their fingers well and truly on the pulse, at least we've now got ops pants that you can wear for weeks without being found by Jerry going sausage-side!!:suspect:

Windy

[Pontius Navigator]

Can you wear the old green shirt with the CS95 bottoms?

If you can't up your brevet on your CS95, like DCINC, can you not put one on your green woolly pully?

I rather fancy my brown boots and blue woolly pully too.

[skua]

From this week's (not April 1) edition of Drapers - the clothing industry magazine.

“Supplier JOI has landed a deal to create a lifestyle fashion collection for the Royal Air Force.

Due to launch for Spring 07, the 50-piece range will mostly consist of smart casual tops, trousers and bomber jackets for men, each sporting a small RAF insignia. There will also be a few womenswear pieces such as polo tops and a bikini, and kidswear is set to debut for Spring 08.

The RAF range, made under license from 4Kids Entertainment, will be pitched in the casual lifestyle sector against the likes of White Stuff. Retail prices range from £25 for a polo shirt to £160 for a leather jacket…..
The RAF will also sell the merchandise through its website and a mail-order catalogue.”

I wonder whether the royalties will find their way to the RAFBF?