Cl-44-o and swingtail merged

[Nineiron]

The preliminary page for Swingtail, the Canadair CL-44 Association, can be found on www.cl44.org
Bookmark and watch this space.

[HZ123]

As Mr Plod at STN 72-73 I remember these a/c very well. Apart from the resident ones we also had the Conrot Super Guppy which if I recall was N reg. There was a regular CL44 sporting the Swiss flag and HB reg. I also recall one that used to come from S America with blood stock.

Finally there was a derelict 44 parked up from TMAC's hangars and one day a wooden rig was built and the a/c lifted on to this craddle by crane . Over the next six months it was rebuilt and took flight again. Happy days.

[JW411]

HZ123:

I saw the old girl (ex-N447T) at BOH this morning. Sadly it still seems to be Conrotting.

I wonder if KH is actually getting paid?

[JJflyer]

There's one sitting in Brazzaville FCBB on the military side of the field.

Looks pretty good from distance, but I am sure that a closer inspection would tell a different story.

If I recall correctly it is bare metal with a blue line from nose to tail at window hight.

Cheers

JJ

[Nineiron]

How long ago was it that you saw the derelict aircraft at Brazza? As far as we are aware only one Yukon and the Guppy are all that remain unbroken. The Association secretary at [email protected] would be interested to hear of the whereabouts and condition of any remaining airframes.

[Hogg]

Yo Nineiron my friend, sticking this one at the top for you for a while, miss not working with you! and will be up ure direction soon, any chance of a bed? beer supplied. cya.

the 360 knot guy.

Hoggy.:ok:


Distincly remember our weekend in Ostend.

Beer Soon.

[JJflyer]

Yip this was about 8 months or so ago... It is a standard body (Not a fatty conversion:p ) I am trying to see if I have any pics of it.

I'll also ask a few questions around.

Cheers

JJ

[Nineiron]

JJflyer

I think that one is s/n 37 that was sold by MS to the Brazza military to cover some debts. It's the ex Bluebell Wrangler N106BB and ex TMAC G-AZKJ . Many miles in my logbook on this one. Negotiations at diplomatic level to recover this machine, but its the old problem of hard currency. If anybody goes down that way a condition report would be welcome, although hearing its still basically in one piece 8 months ago is encouraging.

Hogg
Yr welcome, will email.

[Varipitch]

Despite the apparent (in) activity at BOH, Aviation Leasing Group, owners of the Conroy Guppy have not abandoned the notion of operating it again-you just have to be patient!

[acmi48]

my first experience in my new home 26+ years ago was a walk around the deck of a cl 44 -and i must say it looked ok..until the engines started.. and then the smoke and oil just decorated the place..lament for old lady. sure.. and we had at least three of them that i remembered..

all sadly gone now..but the front enders remain..

[Waldo.P]

I posted a thread a while ago asking "what has happened to the Guppy"but nobody took it seriously.
It's nice to hear the Conroy Guppy may grace the skies once more.There is nothing like the sound of four Tynes!

[Nineiron]

Surprised at the attention this post has attracted, I am sure there are many who have only heard of the CL44 spoken of in hushed tones by elderly aircrew. Here are some of the reasons why:

The CL44 was a large aircraft for its day, just a few inches smaller than the B707 that followed it. The CL44 had a maximum takeoff weight of just over 95 tons, could carry 29 tons of freight and its four Rolls Royce twin spool turboprop engines could take it a 1000 miles on 5 tons of fuel. The stretched version was for many years the largest passenger carrier on the north Atlantic. The ’Hi-Loader’ we see on every major airport today owes its design origins to the CL44 freighter. The CL44 held the world long range flying record of almost 24hrs continuously airborne, (right up to the introduction of the B747SP).

During one of the most remarkable times in the development of global airfreight, you can imagine that life on board a CL44 freighter was quite unique.

[HZ123]

I remember that the cattle truck CL44 that used to bring bloodstock to STN was River Plate Airlines or Airways. If my memory serves it may have been blue with some orange lettering.

[Nineiron]

http://www.cl44.com/cl44/images/LVJZBx1.jpg

Maybe this one, pictured here at STN. Not strictly speaking a CL44 but a Yukon ie no swingtail but two freight doors, Britannia windshields etc.

[JW411]

I read somewhere recently that Yukon HC-AZH (c/n 13) has been bought by the RCAF museum in Trenton and that they are now looking for donations to get the old girl back from Guayaquil.

[RampTramp]

The 'cattle truck CL44 was, if memory serves, a true 44 with swing tail & was operated by Aerolineas Rio Platte or something like that (River Platte Airlines). Can't remember for the life of me where it was registered (Argentina??) but used to come in with cattle & leave with general freight. Transmeridian used to look after it at STN. I'm sure somebody will correct my failing memory where neccessary.

Ah, happy days!

[JJflyer]

Any news on the CL44 in Brazzaville??? Just read an interesting article in the Airliners magazine about the bird and it's development.

Cheers

JJ

[Thunderbird 3]

Ramp Tramp

Well done 9 out of 10
Transporte Aereo Rioplatense,registered in BUE.
I remember standing on the ramp at STN and watching the crew get off followed by 6 attendants for the cattle all wearing sombrero's looked like a scence from the Cisco Kid movie.
Or a holiday flight from Spain.
TAR had 2 x CL44D and 1 x CC106 Yukon.

Thunderbird 3

[HZ123]

So now you have started this what apart from front and back was the main difference between said CL44 and the Yukon, Who made the Yukon as well. Thanks

[JJflyer]

Yukon was a military version of the CL44. It had the same cockpit windows as Britannia had.
Apparently US authorities felt that this set up did not provide enough visibility outside. As a result "Convair" windows where used.

Cheers

JJ

[Varipitch]

Those with keen hearing would have heard the sound of Rolls Royce Tyne engines at Bournemouth last week!
The CL44 Association has news on the aircraft, the arrival of the complete history of the 44 to be published by Air Britain in late Sept and a new video due by Xmas.
Also-News of the next re-union to be graced by the attendance of veterans from Flying Tigers, Transmeridian Transglobe, Tradewinds Wrangler, Transvalair, UAA, Vic Air Cargo and many other 44 equipped airlines.
Want more info?
email [email protected]

[GAZIN]

The news that the Brazzaville 44 may still be complete is the first bit of positive CL44 news I have heard for some time, at least there is still hope that a standard swing tail aircraft might yet be saved. (a long shot I know).
I too remember the TAR & Transvalair aircraft that visited stn in the 70's & all those TMAC 44's, what a wonderfull sight they were.
Look forward to the next edition of Swingtail, I hope there's good news about the Guppy & the Yukon.

GAZIN

[Basil]

. . and there I was thinking this topic was about the Argosy :}

[RampTramp]

Thuderbird 3, as I said, the memory starts failing, either through age or alcohol, not sure which!

Thanks for the correction (and the marks, guess that means I've passed!). I seem to remember the TAR crews wearing a pretty 'normal' uniform but agree that the 'grooms' looked like they'd just stepped off the pampas.

On the same subject, but off the good ol' 44, there was another bunch that also came into STN in those days called, again if memory serves, Maveric Air Cargo who were operating an ex PanAm B707. The first clue to the way this lot saw themselves was the insciption 'The Biggest Bull Shippers in the World' over the crew entry door and then the crew appeared! Unform was light blue with a stetson. First time I saw them, laugh! I nearly bought a round! Only saw them a few times so I guess they didn't quite make their promises.

Nostalgia 'aint what it used to be!!

Cheers all,

RT.

[GAZIN]

Maverick Air Cargo apparently had two 707, although I only saw one of them at STN, sometime later the same plane returned in the colours of BMA Cargo. Maverick only lasted from Oct 77 until Feb 79.
Further O/T, are there any STN old timers who remember a 707 with a flower painted on the fin. It was parked for sometime on the mufflers near Hangar 4 earlier on in the 70's, I've been wondering which airline it was.

GAZIN

[HZ123]

As a plod I recall being on static guard as one of Donaldson 707s had been painted up for EL-AL but as was often the case at STN Donaldson went broke so the a/c sat for sometime on the mufflers but I cannot recall how long it sat there or who eventually took it.

As we are extending this trip down memory lane I can also recall an Indian Air Force Conney that underwent a major in 72. Recollect the regular Saturn Airways stretch DC8's and the Carvairs that were repainted by TMAC I assume they must have been operated from SEN 72/73. Can someone confirm the latter.

Sadly no recollection of a flower painted 707.

[DCDriver]

....unless, of course, one is referring to the "Flower of Scotland" on the fin of the Donaldson 7-oh !

[Varipitch]

Many small-and often unsuccessful operators used 44's-mostly forgotten now but Guy Romero used a 44 to set up Air Calypso-used British crews on an N regd machine-changed its name to Cairgo. I recently met a guy who had a St Kitts CL44 licence-not many of those issued!
Or how about Canhellas-3 flights and it was all over!
Want to know more of these small fry operators-read 'Swingtail-The CL44 Story"-published by Air Britain

[Nineiron]

I remember seeing a Yukon at Heathrow in the early '60s working with British Eagle on the Woomera flights. It was always referred to as the 'Canadian Brit'. It wasn't part of the Eagle fleet. Anybody know who's it was?

[Bigt]

Is the `sky monster` still intact - last heard of at Hurn as 9G-LCA?

[Cee of Gee]

Still there - hasn't moved in quite a while.

[Jamie-Southend]

Shame thats a great plane, i remember it well at Southend in recent years, and nearly 30 years ago as N447T

[HZ123]

I remember it at STN as N reg and a single standard CL-44 with Swiss reg and a visitor CL-44 called River Plate airlines. They were all grand a/c as I recall one that appeared derelict close to TMAC engineering which rebuilt it and it took off some months later, a carpenter having built a craddle for it to be craned onto. Some very nice girls worked in the TMAC offices both sides of STN airport.

[oligoe]

Actually I think 9G-LCA has been given by Mr Azhima to the CL44 association.
I visited the aircraft inside and outside a month ago as I was attending the Cl44 association yearly convention in Bournemouth.
Unfortunatly, even if it still looks very nice from outside, you realise as you get closer that it is getting quite heavely corroded. Same inside the cockpit.
And there are no engine, pitot/static covers.
The thing witch might be possible, would be to restore it to a conditon were they could ask for a special permission of the CAA to ferry fly it to any of the great aircraft museum places. But they shouldn't wait to much as corrosion is progressing daily, and it will soon be to late.

og

[BSD]

Oligoe,

I believe you are right on both counts. 1. The Cl44 association own it, and 2. It should be preserved, and that would be best served by getting it airworthy for a ferry to somewhere with a less harsh environment. Better still, a hangar.

It was the last "Canadian Edsel" I ever flew, and that was 27 years ago! I was last on it about 16 years ago, when we parked next to it in Djakarta. The Kiwi F/O on that occassion was mesmerised by the sight of it, and even more surprised when I was able to reply to his startled "J***s C****t, what the f**k is that" with the right answer!

It was corroded then, and I fear that getting it airworthy, even to a one-off ferry condition would be a monstrous effort.

I last saw it about 10 years ago, when it drifted over my house here in deepest Essex at reasonably low level, with the no. 2 engine feathered. Happy days!

I'd love to see it receive the TLC it deserves.

BSD.

[GuppyEng.com]

Indeed a mammouth task even for a ferry, and then you've got the problem of registering it somewhere.
I think it will leave Bournemouth in a skip!

[hay diddle diddle]

Please, please leave some room in the skip for that loadmaster, thanks awfully old chap !!!!:ok:

[Jamie-Southend]

Oh dear,

Looks like she`s up for scrapping. See statement on the home page.

http://www.cl44.org/

Jamie

[GuppyEng.com]

From what I hear some of the more expensive items have been removed and fingers are being pointed by the association chairman.

[1970s Spotter]

Statement from the CL44 Association regarding the Guppy at BOH

Since accepting the aircraft from LCA Partners of Kansas City, every effort has been made to secure a permanent resting place for the aircraft. Several major museums declared a keen interest but the cost of a ferry flight dampened the most ardent of them! There is no current accurate estimate as to the likely cost of a ferry flight out of Bournemouth-the last licenced engineers estimate to achieve 'signing off for flight' was in excess of US$60,000 and this is now likely to have doubled.
Many of the parts needed to achieve such an undertaking ARE available and are currently held by vendors in the UK. Alas, monies owed prevent those parts from being returned to the aircraft.
We have focused our attention to transferring the aircraft to the Bournemouth Museum but they are unable to handle such a large aircraft although we had high hopes they would find room on the current picnic area.
Meanwhile BASCO, whose ramp the aircraft continues to be parked, is insistent that it is removed forthwith and more recent efforts have turned to the ramp area adjacent to Solent Helicopters (airside of the Museum) or to a landside site near to European Airlines ramp (near the Burger Bar).

But time has almost run out and a team of former 44 flight engineers is due to begin clearing the surplus parts such as u/s avionics and spare prop blades. We are inviting offers for the prop blades right now.
(Offers over £100 as is where is)
We have sufficient fuel in tanks and engine oil to run the Tynes one more time-if anyone can sponsor us an ASU and GPU!

No matter what the outcome, we are hopeful that the flight deck of the Guppy will be preserved-the Association contains several Conroy employees who put the thing together!

If anyone out there wishes to have a specific 'bit' off the Guppy, they should email [email protected]

[Nineiron]

Some blades from the worlds largest commercial propellers (16') are now available to genuine collectors. A three figure contribution towards the preservation of the Guppy would be expected. Contact [email protected]

[Kitoro Kid]

There were some CL44 spares in the cargo shed in Lilongwe, Malawi , wheels/cowlings/1 engine/props etc... but they have been there at least 10 years , I would not like to think what the strorage charges will be.... Best to contact Air Malawi Cargo direct

[Nineiron]

Thanks kk, we'll be in touch. Please check your messages.

[Nineiron]

Talk of a possible sale of The Guppy, currently at BOH, to an active airline.
Apparently, members of the CL44 Association are to be told that their lease on the aircraft is to be given up.

[oligoe]

The guppy was sold last week and apparently it is hoped that they will fly it out of BOH !

[Nineiron]

Certainly is something afoot in the world of Tynes these days. Belfast had two turning and now jungle drums alive with the sound of 515's being flexed soon.
CL44 crew members being asked to submit CV's-but to whom?
Wot next? The Vanguard at Brooklands???

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Who does the maintenance on the Tynes in the Atlantic ASW and Transall C-160 transports?
Be lucky
David

[J31 MAN]

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:GOFOGA9x4sEJ:www.aviationindustrygroup.com/index.cfm%3Fformat%3D1048+rolls+royce+tyne+overhaul&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=26

SNECMA in France looks like the only one?


Cheers.

[Bigt]

Not sure if the contact is still running but I thought Rolls Royce were looking after the RN marine Tynes so poss they have a capacity for flying ones as well.
Seem to recall when the belfasts were withdrawn RR brought a number of them purely for the engines...

[m5dnd]

"Wot next? The Vanguard at Brooklands???"

We still run the Vanguard's Tynes, last time a 3-4 weeks ago ...

Fantastic sight...

Cheer's

M5DND

Brooklands Volunteer.

[Nineiron]

The various militaries using Tynes (marine and aero) seem to want to run them for at least another 9 years. They get 9000hp out of the marine Tynes ( Type 42 Destroyers and Type 22 Frigates). That would help the Belfast overcome a bit of drag. Not sure about the Guppy, could uprate the MTOW!

[GuppyEng.com]

Do you really think 9000hp would help the Belfast overcome its drag?
Add a couple more 0's.

[Nineiron]

Todays rumour is that the sound of Tynes may be heard at Bournemouth next week. Lots of activity around the aircraft.

[Jamie-Southend]

Tynes turning at Southend and Bournmouth - our ears will be spoilt for choice !

[Nineiron]

Don't forget Weybridge, they have their days 'in steam' as well.
Fond memories of EP on the BFS-CVT-BRU run. A gentleman's aeroplane, always chocolate digestives with the tea.

[Stratofreighter]

Todays rumour is that the sound of Tynes may be heard at Bournemouth next week. Lots of activity around the aircraft.

My first post on this forum, and a vague rumour no less! The mods are going to love this...

Is there anyone on this forum who can confirm that CL-44-0 Guppy 9Q-LCA has been sold to Heavylift Cargo Services in Australia for five-thousand-dollars and that it is the intention that she leaves Bournemouth-Hurn flying?

Or is a German museum after her? See
http://www.cl44.org/newsletter45332/sept_2006.pdf .

at http://www.cl44.org/ the following is stated since a few days:

"Notice to all paid up members of the association
A SPECIAL EDITION OF THE NEWSLETTER, TOGETHER WITH THE 2007 RE-UNION BOOKING FORM WILL BE MAILED TO ALL MEMBERS WITHIN THE NEXT FEW DAYS. THIS EDITION CARRIES THE LATEST, UP TO DATE INFORMATION ON THE CL44-O AT BOURNEMOUTH AND ITS PROJECTED FUTURE".

[Nineiron]

The only thing I can confirm is that the cl44-0 Guppy is no longer 9Q-LCA, having been taken off that register some months ago.

[Chille Con Carnie]

Jungle drum,s say she,s off to aust along with No.2 Bellslow which look,s like it may have 4 engines on board now.

[Stratofreighter]

Jungle drum,s say she,s off to aust along with No.2 Bellslow which look,s like it may have 4 engines on board now.

I heard that as well. Would be nice if this actually materialises...

But there is another, more darker scenario: is the Rolls-Royce Tyne subvariant as fitted to "Guppy" interchangeable with the one that propels the Shorts Belfast?
If so, then it may be that the Canadair was only bought for her Tynes...

After the RAF retired the Belfast, Rolls-Royce apparently acquired XR364 "Pallas", XR366 "Atlas" and XR370 "Ajax" for engine recovery...

[The AvgasDinosaur]

I think I recall being told by TMAC crews that the CL44 and Belfast tynes were not interchangeable:ok: If they were why fly the Guppy out there to strip her engines why not remove them at BOH road them to SND and load in the Belfast?
I think its either hydraulics or electrics that aren't compatable.
Perhaps one of our learned colleagues can cast light upon this.
Be lucky
David

[Nineiron]

Front page of www.cl44.org website:
FIRST OFFICER REQUIRED FOR CL44 OPERATION, MUST HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH LARGE TURBOPROP AIRCRAFT
contact [email protected]

[BSD]

As an ex TMAC F/O, I also firmly believe the Belfast Tyne was different from the CL44 Tyne.

I didn't fly the Belfast, but I believe it's starter motor was electrical, DC I'd imagine. The Edsel's was air powered and needed an air start cart to turn it's Tynes on start-up.

I also believe the Belfast had water-methanol injection which the Edsel did not

I do remember through the mist of the sands of time, that th Edsel had the RR 515 mk.12. Don't think the Belfast had as much power, and may have had one section less in the turbine department.

Props were the same though, as when TMAC acquired the Belfast spares holding, I believe it included a treasure trove of something like 40-odd ship sets of proppelers. I do now that suddenly we got new very shiny props all of a sudden!

Good luck to all involved in getting her airborne again. The old lady will be happy to leave her damp and dreary parking bay at BOH for the warmth and splendour of " the sunlit plains extended "

BSD.

[JW411]

Stratofreighter:

XR369 "Spartacus" was also purchased for engine recovery. After all engines had been removed the bulldozers moved in and the four airframes were reduced to produce at Hucknall.

[Stratofreighter]

Thanks for the info JW411!

[m5dnd]

Great Day at Brooklands on Saturday (14th Oct), Our Vanguard running all four Tynes, fantastic as always.. The Team sorted out airlocks in the fuel lines in two of the engines after the first attempt to run all four ended with just two running.
Sorry not to let anyone know about this but I only found out when I arrived there in the morning. They hope to run them once a month so if anyone is intersested I will post the date of the next run when I know it.

At Hurn (Bournemouth) tomorrow should will hopefully see the CL44 before it goes werever it is going.

Cheer's
M5DND

[JW411]

Stratofreighter:

Since you are obviously interested, it went like this:

The first 3 Belfasts to be sold by MOD were XR362 "Samson"/G-BEPE, XR368 "Theseus"/G-BEPS and XR369 "Spartacus"/G-BEPL. They were delivered by the RAF from Kemble to Manston for Eurolatin Aviation Ltd which originally intended to buy all 10 aircraft but then the money ran out.

XR364 "Pallas", XR366 "Atlas" and XR370 "Ajax" were flown to Hucknall for Rolls Royce and XR367 "Heracles" was supposed to follow but, by then, Heavylift had been formed and had taken over the first three aircraft. They realised that XR369/G-BEPL was not in good condition at Manston so she was swapped for XR367 which became G-BFYU. XR369/G-BEPL made just one ferry flight from Manston to Hucknall.

Heavylift also purchased XR363 "Goliath"/G-OHCA and XR365 "Hector"/G-HLFT and they were flown to Southend which, by then, was Heavylift's engineering base.

XR363 never flew again and was used for spares recovery. She sat beside the railway line for many years before being broken up. XR362/G-BEPE was the prototype and she was quite a bit heavier since she still had a lot of the test wiring etc in the airframe and was therefore less economic to operate than the rest. She was therefore replaced by XR365/G-HLFT and she joined XR363 alongside the railway line.

Interestingly, XR365 was about the most cantankerous of the fleet and was known as "Silly Old Hector" (after a well-known cartoon character on UK childrens' television). It is quite ironic that she is the one now flying in Australia as 9L-LDQ.

The 10th aircraft, XR371 "Enceladus" was flown from Kemble to Cosford for the RAF Museum and I believe she is now under cover (thank God) in the newly-opened Cold War hangar.

[Stratofreighter]

Many thanks to all who answered my queries and provided detailed background information!

Cheers from the other side of the North Sea,
Stratofreighter

[mmelli]

Dear Ramp Tramp:

Browsing on Internet I found this forum specially about CL 44 freight. Many Friends of mine was pilots who flew CL 44 at TAR registred in Argentina such as LV-JTN. ( I flew as F.E B-747 Aerolineas Argentinas )

They told me a lot of flights (adventure) in cattle transport !! remembering the real problem of cattle urinate !! ( and strong odors ).

The first operation was to protect all fuselage floor with a special nylon
to avoid dangerous corrosion. etc, etc.

Many pilots of TAR now are Jumbo 400 series Captains and Airbus 340 series Captains.

At this moments we are trying to do a special TV program in Argentina about CL 44 and CL 44 Yukon cargo history.

If you like I could send few photos of previous and laboruous cabin conditioning and cattle load on the great plane named " CL44 YUKON "

Best regards

mmelli :)


The 'cattle truck CL44 was, if memory serves, a true 44 with swing tail & was operated by Aerolineas Rio Platte or something like that (River Platte Airlines). Can't remember for the life of me where it was registered (Argentina??) but used to come in with cattle & leave with general freight. Transmeridian used to look after it at STN. I'm sure somebody will correct my failing memory where neccessary.

Ah, happy days!

[The AvgasDinosaur]

One of the Aer Entre Rios fleet was lost in very murky circumstances
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19810718-0&lang=en
Hope it helps
Be lucky
David

[Nineiron]

To end the recent speculation regarding the Guppy at Bournemouth, the CL44 Association can now confirm that it has indeed relinquished its Lease on the aircraft in favour of an Australian Airline.
There are no immediate plans to utilise the Tynes for any other purpose than to power the aircraft to its return to service.
A crew has been recruited from members of the CL44 Association.
the Guppy's future can of course, be tracked in the Association's regular Newsletter 'Swingtail' which is mailed to members three or four times per year.
Membership costs £10.00 in the UK Euros15 within Europe and $25 in the USA and Canada
enquiries to [email protected]

[Stratofreighter]

Nineiron, thanks for the update! But I can't find it at http://www.cl44.org/
Was this taken from the "SPECIAL EDITION OF THE NEWSLETTER"?

I can confirm that the Guppy will go to the Australian aviation company (since when is it an Airline operating scheduled services??) which has been named several times before...

As of this Thursday afternoon no engine tests have been performed on her so far according to local correspondents...

[Nineiron]

Latest report I had today was that the old girl was about to be moved into the hangar.
Hopefully, it is not going to suffer the miseries of yet another BOH winter and will get a chance to dry out.

[GBALU53]

Lets hope it will be good news and going to fly again in the not to distant future. so many of these aircraft have fallen by the way side.

A lot of us are interested in this outcome.:ok: :ok:

[Stratofreighter]

Latest report I had today was that the old girl was about to be moved into the hangar.
Hopefully, it is not going to suffer the miseries of yet another BOH winter and will get a chance to dry out.

According to local reports this morning Guppy has now indeed been towed into the BASCO hangar.

[Stratofreighter]

Another update on "Guppy".

According to local reports the Swingtail extender is (still) missing, and a small puncture just above the crew door has not been repaired. This was on Friday the 27th of October.

Somewhat more hopeful is the fact that on Friday the 3rd of November all engines were spooled-up!! People who have witnessed these tests say that the engines weren't fully "powered up". But all propblades have definitely turned!!
Afterwards the Canadair was pulled back into a hangar of BASCO.

It seems that the BASCO facilities will close on the 22nd of December, with staff around this time having "job-leaving interviews"...

[GBALU53]

Is it being made airworthy to go and join the Belfast down in Australia??

[Stratofreighter]

Is it being made airworthy to go and join the Belfast down in Australia??

Yes she is! On Monday the 6th of November engine runs were performed, but they had to be broken off as problems occured.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

If you cut and paste 4 14 58.01 s 15 14 57.92 e into the flyto box on Google Earth it should put you overhead 7Q-YMS at Brazzaville. Then zoom into eye level at approx 1,500ft.
Hope it helps
Be lucky
David
P.S. Does anyone know how to date google earth images

[Nineiron]

One thing is for sure, its not in the hangar just to keep it out of the rain.

Meanwhile, the website www.cl44.org has been updated. Many new pictures added to the Gallery today (which is now on Fotopic software), also the Links list is worth a look. Every link is described, you may find something of interest here. CL44 Photos, models, videos, simulation etc.

[GBALU53]

With Atlantic Airlines being very shory on capicity due a number of reasons they have five Fokker Friendships and two Airbus 300 leased in from MNG Cargo Turkey.

Could the CL44 be going up to Coventry to operate for Atlantic Airlines???:ok: :ok:

The market seems to be quite a wide of weights required at the moment and the CL44 might fit in to there line of work with the Electra Fleet numbers dwindleing and trying to source the size of aircraft takes time and contracts could be lost??

The Atlantic Airlines fleet from what i understand does over one hundered sectors per night during the week so the contracts must be out there could the be a long term contract for the CL44 with them???:ok: :ok:

[The AvgasDinosaur]

What a nice thought, however sorry to p*** on your party but registration could be somewhat problematic. The Guppy is a one off and getting her certified anywhere acceptable to UK authorities would be very difficult unless the Irish will have her back. I think her future lies on a flag of convienience registration.
Though anything can happen after refusing for years to register CV-580, Hercules and Electras apparently because of their engine fire extinguishing arrangements the did a swift 180 degree and back track.
Now if Lockheed hadn't forced the RB211s to be carried 3 at a time on Herks and used Conroy Guppies 5 a time for Tristar production the other 4 Guppies would have been built....................................................... ..............................................
Hello Nurse medication time is it?
Be lucky
David

[Nineiron]

The standard 44 was very practical for night freight. The French post office used one for ages out of Orly. Could take up to 20 Friendship containers, achieving quick turnrounds by using two hi-loaders back to back at the swingtail.
...and 4 Tynes make much less noise than 2 Darts.

[Midland 331]

The standard 44 was very practical for night freight. The French post office used one for ages out of Orly. Could take up to 20 Friendship containers, achieving quick turnrounds by using two hi-loaders back to back at the swingtail.
...and 4 Tynes make much less noise than 2 Darts.


Hmm... I'm not sure about the last bit, having lived near EMA for a few years...controllers used to give Merchantmen their own noise abatement tracks if working on easterly departures.

Avgas Dinosaur - did three RB211s on an Albert bring it somewhere near to MTOW for a sector like EMA-REK? I seem to recall some very long rolls at EMA, even in sub-zero temperatures.

r

[Bigt]

Tis abit sad that the Guppy has `roosted` in the UK for such a long time, US reg, Irish reg, etc, etc and yet the chances of it earning its keep in the UK now seem to be all gone. Hope we all get some notice of its departure from Hurn - would be nice to see her once more in the air.....

[Nineiron]

The four Tynes on a Merchantman seemed to have a higher frequency sound than those on the 44. The Merch props are smaller and probably operated at a higher RPM than the 16' props on the Canadair, which has a much deeper rumble from the more powerful prop/engine combination.
As for carrying RB211 engines, the problem surely is one of bulk, not weight. The heaviest RB211, (the 524-d4) weighs 4480kgs.
I am sure the Guppy can take 25tons out of EMA on an isa day.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Hmm... I'm not sure about the last bit, having lived near EMA for a few years...controllers used to give Merchantmen their own noise abatement tracks if working on easterly departures.
Avgas Dinosaur - did three RB211s on an Albert bring it somewhere near to MTOW for a sector like EMA-REK? I seem to recall some very long rolls at EMA, even in sub-zero temperatures.
r
I can't really answer that one I have no idea what an RB-211 on its trolly weighed. I am however quite prepared to believe that Saturn got a very serious discount on their Herks, the basic maths never added up as the fuel burn on a Herk is greater than the Guppy and you got three RB-211s on each Herk flight whereas 5 per flight was planned for the CL-44O. 5 Herks to get 15 engines to Palmdale or 3 CL-44 Os to do the same:uhoh: You figure it out. Except of course look who the RB-211s were for Lockheed Corporation Tristarsand who makes Hercules?Lockheed Corporation I dont think Jack Conroy ever saw a level playing field much less got to play on one.
Be lucky
David
Perhaps one of our Derby based contributors can throw some light on the weight angle ?

[Bigt]

Depending on the model the RB211 engine weighed between 7000 and nearly 10000 lbs. Not sure the weight of a transit frame, etc.
Would they be moved dry or with fluids....?

[Nineiron]

Some weights here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_RB211#Leading_Particulars

Trolley or frame not included of course.
No indication as to whether this is just the engine, or a fully built powerplant.

[thetexpat]

Gentlemen,
Being one of the former 'Limey' Members of the Transamerica (TV) Ops Control group during those 'wonderful' years, I can confirm that TV operated the L-100-300 Herks EGNX-BIKF-CYFB/CYVP-CYWG-KPMD carrying 3 RB211s per trip.
These 3 engines brought the Herk up to MXZFWT to the extent that TV had to pre-position spare wheels, radios, etc. at each en-route airport as they couldn't be carried on the aircraft (wonder if those spares are still there?)!
Anyway, the worst sector for flight planning was BIKF-CYFB/CYVP(?) as the nearest alternate was CYYR! Had the occasional divert to BGSF due prevailing winds!
Ah, what fun! Adding to the fun was caring for a bunch of B747s, DC-10-30s, DC-8-73s and L-188s! Wonderful:ok: !
Bring back 'The Good Old Days'!
Cheers
thetexpat

[Nineiron]

I don't know the sector lengths, but your RZFWT must have been around 110,000lbs on the l100-30 with 3 rb1211s. Could get over 20 tons of fuel on with that load.
What was the limiting and regulating factor, the MLWT or a RTOW?

I am trying to understand more, as to why the Guppy was such a viable project.

[thetexpat]

As you're aware, it was many years (decades:eek: !) ago that we performed these flights!
Based upon the following information from the SAFAIR website
(http://www.safair.co.za/)
Weight
Maximum certified take-off weight 70 307kg (155 000lbs)
Maximum certified landing weight 61 235kg (135 000lbs)
Maximum certified zero fuel weight 57 727kg (127 000lbs)
Basic empty weight 34 545kg ( 76 000lbs)
Average APS weight 35 000kg ( 77 000lbs)
I'd say it was the MXLWT!
That would leave you with approx 4tons of fuel at destination. Not too much if you have to divert to CYYR, a distance of 779mls!:uhoh: !
G/C distance is 1373 per http://gc.kls2.com/
Cheers
thetexpat

[Nineiron]

Just had a look at my old TMAC loading manual (yes, I'm one of those sad people that has a full attic!)
Heres some figures for comparison
MTOWT 210,000
MLWT 165,000
MZFW 160,000
Guppy basic weight 98,500
APS Fr/Lr config. 102,000
Therefore maxload 58,000
So with 3x 10,000lb RB 211 engines on board it could land with about 15 tons of fuel. The cargo bay is 84' long (with another 14' in the swingtail) . It would have been able to manage 5 engines and land with about the same amount of fuel as the L100.
Politics and the loss of the aircraft in Anchorage put a stop on the second Guppy being built.

[Midland 331]

Those Hercs. used to roll and roll. I also seem to recall that the RB211s were a very tight fit..

To correct the thread drift, and by contrast, an Aer Turas CL44 out of Castle Donington, with a lone racehorse on board, rotated way before the first intersection on 28 (as it was then).

Amazing. Wind straight down the runway, but not too strong. It almost like watching a very large motor glider, with about the same nose level. What a graceful aeroplane!

Why do politics and commercial shenanigans kill off the best machines?

r

[Nineiron]

The J model really was a beautiful looking aeroplane. A racehorse indeed.
Those extra few feet made a big difference to the cockpit noise level which added to the 'grace and pace' feeling. Had to remember the extra length when taxying though!

[HotDog]

Do any of you remember Tony Ahmad (RIP) or Paul Horsting (very ill) ? Have many hours in my logbook flying with them.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

I think I've found a CL-44J survivor at Tripoli International
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0642391/L/
Google earth 32 39 35.37 N 13 09 44.74 E a quick cut and paste in the flyto box and decend to 250' agl.
Does anyone know if she is still there
Be lucky
David

[GAZIN]

The CL44 in Libya is a 'D4' model not a 'J'. It was ex Transvalair/Tradewinds I believe.
Last I heard the dump was due to be cleared for airport development. Interestingly the Brazzaville aircraft is also ex UAA/Transvalair.

[noflybywire]

I remember seeing one of the T-A-R 44's at LGW and have some photos of it taken with my then brand new Olympus OM1. I once flew with BAF from Southend to Ostend and on that Saturday they had Carvair G-ASDC a leased in Alidair Viscount G-AVIW and a CL44 flying the route. We got the Carvair and the Viscount so sadly I never got to fly in a 44,

[sled dog]

The CL44-D4 at Tripoli last flew in 1981. Upon arrival the only snag was a u/s oil pressure gauge. Somehow the a/c became a source of spares for the other two. By 1983 ( the last time i saw her, parked by the GA area ) she was just a bare shell. Nice to see the old girl still survives, together with a couple of 707`s, also possibly ex United African Airlines. Happy memories of a sometimes difficult time in North Africa, and regions further south........:cool:

[woptb]

wasn't the Canuck Argus MPA some sort of Britannia derivative?

[Bigt]

The Argus MPA was an `adapted` brit fitted with wright turbo-compound engines - one held the recorded for un refuelled flight - 31 hours till one of those plastic planes took the record.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

I have it on good authority that the Guppy is to be registered RP-C-8023
For service with Heavylift in Australia.
Be lucky
David

[GBALU53]

All I can say is very interesting, on an earlier thred I did suggest the aircraft going to Heavylift in Australia to join the Belfast.

To remind some of us this is where the second Belfast which is being prepared for flight at the moment at Southend is destined for so, if the information is correct there must be a lot of oversized work going on down under.

Good to see there is life in the old dogs yet as the saying goes.:ok: :ok:

[Nineiron]

How many aircraft built today will be still able to earn money in 2051?
The Guppy has ventured out of the hangar after an engine change and inspection, and has been seen (and heard) doing a high speed run on the BOH runway. The airframe first took to the sky 45 years ago (as a D4-2) and it looks like it will be back in its natural element before the new year.

[Jamie-Southend]

Is it coming to SEN ?

Which is now of course, famous for its new routes to Aussieland.

:E :E :E :E

[GBALU53]

Sounds good to hear how well things are going with the aircraft before we know it will be airborne with a new certificate to fly going to pastures new.

If the aircraft is on the way to Aurstralia there must be the work out tfor this type of aircraft as well as the Belfast at Southend which is due to go there when it is fit for flight.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Learned contributors,
Heavylift Cargo 727-51C RP-C8017, which was previously registered 9L-LFJ, has been based at the former Clarke AFB cargo hub since recent reregistration. Could this be why RP-C was chosen for the guppy. Their other B727 remains 9L registered as does the first Belfast.
Hope it helps
Be lucky
David

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Please excuse ignorance on this but when was her last flight as 9G-LCA
Much appreciated
Be lucky
David

[Bigt]

Thought to have last taken to the air August 2003

[Freeman Lowell]

Can't confirm August, but can say it did a glorious low level airtest across Dorset on the afternoon of Good Friday (18.4) that year.
Freeman

[Bigt]

What is the status of the Guppy now. I was under the impression that BASCO where working on it. I seem to recall BASCO were intending to cease trading on 22 December.............

[Freeman Lowell]

Although I can't confirm the August flight, 9G-LCA carried an airtest over Dorset on the afternoon of Good Friday (18.4) that year, which included a glorious pass over Blandford Forum.

On 22nd of this month RP-C8023 was sat outside BASCos.

Freeman.

[Lupus-Zorro]

Have the fuel leaks been fixed?

[GuppyEng.com]

I understand from the Engineer involved with the mx at BOH that a team was bought in to do the fuel leaks and after lots of work the fuel leaks were fixed!
Good luck guys. I am sure the old girl could go skywards again:ok:

[Nineiron]

The only alternative was to include the fuel leaks in the performance graphs.

[Lupus-Zorro]

As I understand it the guppy has no type certificate not even a BS one like the Belfast. How will it be operated?

[Nineiron]

The certification would be the responsibility of the country of registration. As far as the CAA is concerned a Type (ie one of a series) certificate was issued 13th June 1969 (ARB ref FA3) The variant D4 was added as this was the only variant on the UK register. The -0 and the -J models were never added. There is only one CL44-0 variant, it is unique, so it could hardly be regarded as a supplemental 'Type' anyway, whereas the Belfast is a Series Type in its own right, a military aircraft that was 'civilized'.
I would think that CAP733 Permit to Fly, para 1.3, would cover the Guppy's present situation.

[swingtail]

This was posted on the Flying Tiger Website last night: As some of you know, she was within a week of being scrapped when a white knight came along and rescued her. The white kight came in the form of a heavy lift Australian airline that plans to use her in Australia and for inter island carriage in the Southwest Pacific. She has been sitting on the ramp at a Bournemoth, England maintenance facility for about 5-6 years. The facility finally ordered her removed or be scrapped so the reprieve came just in time. The engines have been run several times and she's been taxi tested. The avionics are all working now but that was a problem. Sitting on the ramp at a costal city took it's toll. Some canon plugs had to be completely re-pinned. An engine was found in Africa so the #1 engine was replaced. Another engine will be picked up enroute to Cairns, Australia. The Planned routing will be through Middle East with a few stops. The center tank, tank 6, will not be used so range will be reduced. The -44 is a very long range airplane so this shouldn't be a problem and should still provide a range of 3-4 thousand miles. The Captain has over 10,000 hours in the plane. The FO has little -44 experience but the engineer has thousands of hours. The crew's average age is 67. Malcolm will accompany the flight as Loadmaster. He has over 15,000 hours in the -44. In a brief email today, he told me that she's ready to fly and his bags are packed. Perhaps they're a bit ahead of schedule; the departure from Bournemouth had been set for the 15th. They plan to takeoff and remain in the area long enough to determine that all systems are up to the task and, if so, they plan to head for Australia. She now has Philippine registry RP-C 8023. She was N447T when we flew her prior to being converted into a guppy.

Full text: http://www.flyingtigerline.org/_06/00000617.htm

Any comments and confirmations welcome...

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Swingtail,
Thanks for a very informative first post. Welcome to PPRuNe.
Be lucky
David

[GuppyEng.com]

Well Done Guys.
Where about's in the Middle East you planning to stop?
You know where I am operating from at the moment and perhaps we could all meet up for a beer:ok:

[Stratofreighter]

I hope I am not raining on someone's parade, but according to several local correspondents "Guppy" has NOT moved under her own power since 2003...
Several engine tests were performed last autumn prior to the closure of BASCO, but it seems no work at all was done on her after Friday the 22nd of December 2006, the day BASCO went out of business...

After this date she was parked outside in full view of any passer-by. A mechanic working on her would surely be noticed...

[GAZIN]

My information is that the aircraft performed a lengthy ground run & taxi check in December & was found to be mechanically fit.
The very best of luck to all concerned.

[swingtail]

Still no-one comes with a source that the Guppy is denied to leave BOH on Monday.
I hope they will, nothing's better than to hear a CL44 Take-off.
And after Monay the weather will go really bad Snow Freezing etc..
Good luck Guys, go to where the summer is !

[swingtail]

Is there any news or movement in the plans for the departure of RP-C-8023 ?
Please advice if you hear see know anything...
Peter van Leeuwen [email protected] Mobile +31 62121 3856
Many Thanks !

[Black Box Barney]

In a phone call this evening to two of my friends from FRA at Bournemouth, they both confirmed that they have seen the old girl very recently doing EGR's and high speed taxi runs, read into that what you will.

:)

[swingtail]

Really surprised to hear these sightings, they must have performed that in the dark since in daylight, the machine has not moved under its own power, since its storage in 2003.
Engines ran separately few times at the BASCO apron at low speed and once for 20 minutes full speed at the northern runway bay.
All "taxi" movements were done by a towing vehicle.

Wish she had...

Peter

[Newforest]

Really surprised to hear these sightings, they must have performed that in the dark since in daylight, the machine has not moved under its own power, since its storage in 2003.
Peter

Also interesting is that the original post from the Flying Tiger website has disappeared. It was a good job that you copied most of it in your post!

[swingtail]

Also interesting is that the original post from the Flying Tiger website has disappeared. It was a good job that you copied most of it in your post!


Yes indeed, I think one of the CL44 insiders mentioned in the article made a mistake by telling the FTL guy these plans, I was never to be meant to appear.
He has now brought the whole operation in trouble maybe.
And why ?
If the new owners would have been more open, no-one would have posted this many rumors...

P.

[GuppyEng.com]

If the New and previous owners had got there heads together perhaps we would have heard the sound of tynes over Hampshire. I am sure there is some polotics involved somewhere!
Nineiron. You can give us the gen? What is the latest?
I can't kepp the beer cold in the sanpit for too long!

[Black Box Barney]

Hey GuppyEng, do I know you ? I'm ex Brussels, and if you're who I think you are, so are you.

Hotel Orion, Blonde breakfasts, drove me to Calais when I left ???

[Nineiron]

....no its not off the Guppy, it last flew on a J model. Another complete propeller has become available. If anybody would like to own one of these magnificent props ( 16 feet accross) check for details on the Swingtail Forum on www.cl44.org A wind turbine perhaps?

[moku]

Not been to the airport since Christmas is the Guppy still there or did she finally manage to get airbourne?

M.

[Stratofreighter]

After BASCO went out of business on the 21st of December not a lot has happened. It seems that all (repair) work on Guppy has stopped. It's been almost a month now since the last time a mechanic was spotted near her...

Local correspondents still keep an eye on her, but unfortunately there is no action to report...

[GAZIN]

As noted on several forums the Guppy has moved away from the BASCO hangar, this photographer on Airliners.Net,http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1178909/L/ states that the aircraft has been grounded by the airport authority & the CAA. Does anyone know whether or not this is actually the case?

[BOHEuropean]

She has been grounded, however there is a rumour floating around that she is awaiting a CAA Check prior to becoming airborn.
With all rumours, don't believe everything you hear! And dont shoot the messenger!

[swingtail]

There is a persistant rumor the Guppy will be scrapped at BOH soon..
Do not forget that all people working on the Guppy are 'under a info-ban' issued by the new owner.
If you see the enormous work undertaken in the last months, this is the replacement of all skin under the engine and gear cowlings and the purchase of no less then 8 spare Tyne 515 engines and refitting some of those...
It would be a real waste of money and time for the new owner.
Or all must have been a set-up to acquire the Guppy for nothing form its former owner - ALG - and now let it be scrapped as an result of CAA policy.
We'll see..I will be over in mid March if she's still around.
Please let all rumors and FACTS out on this page.

[merlinxx]

Fahard Azema ain't gonna let anyone have it for free or cheap

[Nineiron]

Recent postings ('Swingtail') bear no resemblance to anything approaching the real situation at Bournemouth and such offerings only tend to annoy those who will recognise that the process of such an undertaking is complex and involved.
Members of the CL44 Association will be getting the latest update by mail in due course but nothing will be posted on the website.
Membership is open to anyone of course - but it should be noted that 'Swingtail' is not a member.
This is of course a rumour network, not a news forum. What folk don't know they tend to make up.

[Nineiron]

mm....your (now edited) posting proved my point. Sorry, its not my CL44 Group, I just spent many hours with a CL44 strapped to my back and appreciate an organisation that keeps me in touch with the old days.
As for free speech, another assumption "Do not forget that all people working on the Guppy are 'under a info-ban' issued by the new owner." Where did that come from? The owner is quite entitled to do what he likes with his own aeroplane. The Guppy was in very great danger of being lost, he bought it, you didn't.

[GuppyEng.com]

Well said Nineiron.
Please keep us to date with the facts and not all this fiction.

[Stratofreighter]

Hello all,

If you click at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9HeqsQS93E you will see a clip of a marvellous toy: a Flying Tiger CL-44 model with turning propellers doing a run around someones kitchen!
The wingspan is at least two feet, if not more...
And yes, the tail can be swung open and shut by remote control!
Unfortunately no footage of "real" CL-44s or derivatives are currently available at Youtube...

[Ada Quonsett]

'HeavyLift Cargo changed the registration of its Short Belfast from 9L-LDQ to RP-C8020 at Cairns on January 19. On January 22 the Belfast, which was operating as ‘Heavylift 201', departed for Johor Bahru where it picked up a load destined for Port Moresby and Mount Hagen. On January 28 the Belfast returned to its Cairns base from Lae.
727-51C RP-C8017 was test flown at Cairns on January 17 before the same day ferrying to Brisbane using the callsign ‘Romeo Papa Charlie'. On January 18 it departed Brisbane for Honiara, but instead of using a HeavyLift flight number it used the TransGlobal Airways flight number TCU925 and the callsign ‘Transglobal 925'.
(RP-C8017 was based in the Philippines at the former Clark AFB from June 17 to December 17 and while there it operated on lease to TransGlobal Airways.)
After over-nighting in Honiara the 727 continued to Auckland with the aircraft again using the callsign ‘RPC'. The final leg of the charter was operated from Auckland to Brisbane on January 20 and this time the 727 operated as flight TCU504 and used the callsign ‘Transglobal 504'.
727-51C 9L-LEK, which had been operating out of Brisbane, was ferried to Cairns as flight HVY100 on December 30. By the time this is read it is expected that the 727 will have changed its registration to RP-C8018.
HeavyLift Cargo was planning to take delivery of 727-227F RP-C8019 in Brisbane during March with the aircraft ferrying in from Roswell, New Mexico, where it had been in storage.'
http://www.ausaviation.com.au/Online/traffic/traffic.htm

[discus177]

Thanks for the info Ada; do any of you know what serial number the latest 727 will have? And will that too be on charters?



discus :ok:

[Engineer]

With the registering on the Philippines register, does this mean that the EU ban on Heavylift will be lifted?

[Stratofreighter]

The text below consists of two messages by two different reporters...

Apparently CL-44-0 Guppy RP-C-8023 had another test today. Not sure whether she was towed from her present spot or not for these checks. Anyone got more details/updates?

"I can provide a positive up-date on the Guppy here at Bournemouth this
morning.
Currently, having just left the airport she is rigged up to a GPU, all doors
are open. Engineers are testing all nav lights as well as all wing control
surfaces and wing flaps being extended to full downwards position. Much
cleaning and attention is being paid to the undercarriage.
Another Ruomour is that she is bound for a museum in the States."

And

"Just been out to the airport and there is alot of work going on around the
Guppy. They were testing the navagation lights and alot of checks around the wheels. Also had all the doors open."

[Porrohman]

On the subject of Heavylift, does anyone know how the overhaul of long-time Southend resident, Shorts Belfast G-BEPS, is progressing? A lot of work appears to have been carried out if you compare this photo from April 06; http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1044434 ...with this photo from December 06; http://www.flugzeugbilder.de/show.php?id=569028

Porrohman.

[HZ123]

There seems to have been no work on the a/c since last year and they have been awaiting the forth prop since last summer. Rumour was that in the strong winds of last October it was damaged when it swung around on its stands. I am at SEN tomorrow I will enquire.

[discus177]

Well one would assume the ban would be lifted now that the majority of the aircraft are on the RC-P [Phillipine] register, maybe this is a sign of bigger & better things for Heavylift.

I appreciate you enquiring about G-BEPS, hopefully she will be airborne fairly soon.


Discus

[Stratofreighter]

As this thread has become rather quiet over the past few weeks...

On the 14th of March a ground power unit was put beside her. Several checks were done around the wheels. Also the flaps and navigation lights were tested. It may have been the "monthly clean up" but at least there was some activity. I have no further updates.
Haven't found any recent news about the Belfast at Southend. Anyone?

[Porrohman]

Regarding the Belfast at Southend, I found this photo on Airliners.net, dated 15th March '07; http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1192370

Porrohman

[CR2]

I've been asking myself this question for a while...

Would you prefer this thread in Freight Dogs or in the Nostalgia forum?

Let me know. A CL44 is not exactly a current freighter, but nevertheless a freighter. Up to you. We'll see in a week.

:ok:

[Newforest]

Both subjects are freighters and hopefully will remain so, so fingers crossed for good news and air under the wheels! Keep the posts here!:D

[Nineiron]

To classify this forum as 'nostalgia' would be to finally state that the Guppy is dead. Of course there is plenty of nostalgia, over 40 years of a type of flight operation rarely seen today inevitably produces a lot of war stories. The Guppy status is commercially operational.
Credit must be given to the guys with their faces pressed up against the chainlink perimeter fence. The perseverance of the Bournemouth Guppy Watchers have done their bit through PPRuNe, however small, in preventing the loss of this aircraft. Every movement is reported and understandably there is a lot of guesswork. It is being maintained in an airworthy condition so routine engineering activity will be seen from time to time.
I understand that a crew is on standby, but as anybody who knows about flight dynamics will appreciate, the weight of the airframe has to be equalled by the weight of the paperwork before it is capable of flight.
No Flight Plan filed for Australia it would seem.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

I've been asking myself this question for a while...
Would you prefer this thread in Freight Dogs or in the Nostalgia forum?
Let me know. A CL44 is not exactly a current freighter, but nevertheless a freighter. Up to you. We'll see in a week.
Please don't sentence the old girl to nostalgia just yet. She still has a chance of more gainful employment. "Reports of her demise are greatly exagerated"
Be lucky
David

[GuppyEng.com]

Keep it in this forum!
I am sure when there is a proper report about the status it will be posted here.
Then you would have to move the thread back to Freightdogs.:ok:

[CR2]

ok ok, it stays here then...:)

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Thank you kind sir,
Be lucky
David:ok: :D

[Stratofreighter]

Thanks CR2!

Only just checked again, so far no updates on the local lists about either "Guppy" at Bournemouth or the Belfast at Southend unfortunately...
Anyone?

[GSH1]

Not much action around the CL-44 at Bournemouth I manged to get a photo of her the other day http://abpic.co.uk/photo/1049572/


Graham

[HZ123]

There has been no activity around the Belfast so far this year according to the SEN spotters who can be relied on. There is a problem obtaining a fourth propeller, however, it has been minus the fourth for a least a year. I am sure these things do not take that long.

[JW411]

"I am sure these things do not take that long".

Since you obviously know where to find Belfast propeller assemblies quickly, send me a PM and I will happily pass the information on.

[Porrohman]

A bit of a long shot, but would any of the props from the Cosford Belfast XR371 be able to be overhauled to airworthy standard or are they time expired / beyond economic repair?

Porrohman

[The AvgasDinosaur]

I have a feeling most of the airworthy or potentially so parts were swapped around at the time of the Ascencion airlift.
I'm sure more learned contibutors will correct me P.D.Q. if i'm in error on this.:uhoh:
Be lucky
David

[1970s Spotter]

Seems to be a general winding-up of activity around the CL44-0 at Bournemouth and an 'Insider' has ascertained that more activity will take place this coming Friday.

[hay diddle diddle]

Swing tails of the Scupperd Gupper

My bags are packed, I'm on my way if it wasan't for the bloody CAA!! so back to my galley, that I call home, making my favorite tea for the Captain and me.

Then into the cockpit to sit on my own throne, but how the crew love to hear me moan and grown as I wipe my arse on my un used load sheets.

Then hopping into the upper bunk to suck on my home made sweets before supper, as I write more tails aboard the Scuppered Gupper.

So come a board the Scupped Gupper, while I make you a lovely cupper and tell you tails of long gone by missions, and of my many wrong decisions , but never mind, I say, because I can handle it, as they try to stab me in my back, right through my brand new anarak !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now there's a tail of the missing props, who did I sell them to, please please own up otherwise we are grounded and will be selling the rest of her in the shops!!!!!


More tails to follow of loadie one kono beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!

[Stratofreighter]

HDD....

And your point is ?

Guess you're not a friend of the loadie, but you don't have to advertise it as much...

[merlinxx]

May it rest in bits, I came to hate that thing after being forced to D/H back to the UK, by far the worst trip ever. Dirty, unpressurised, crew getting dirty money to fly it etc, etc. Sure Conroy did a great job on it, but that was then, send it back to the US and to ALG in Overland Park KS.

[GuppyEng.com]

Unpressurised:confused:Dirty money:=
It got you home did'nt it?
You wer'nt one of the BA crew we had on board were you?

[Varipitch]

Hey Guppy Eng-still in the warm zone then?
Let me have an email when the desert storm subsides, you can get me via the old Division.

[Varipitch]

I have been reading the various opinions on the situation regarding the Conroy Guppy which continues to be interned at Bournemouth.
I understand that the REAL situation is far removed from the speculation and that the new operators of the aircraft are now gearing up for departure.
What IS known is that the CL44 Association, whose webpages are freely available, actually name the operating crew. Surely they would not go that far if it were fiction?
As far as a loadmaster is concerned, I read that Heavylift Cargo Airlines employ no-one as loadmaster, preferring to utilise the operating crew to load etc.
If that's good enough for the Belfast, it is surely the same for the Guppy.
Hope to see some old 44-ites in Piccadilly later this year.

[Nineiron]

Exactly how far did the last three crews fly?

[merlinxx]

At your rqst, neg I was not furloughed BA crew, just company personnel.

[Varipitch]

Something of a pregnant silence around the CL44-O these days, reflected in the lack of activity in these columns.
However[, this does not mean that the aircraft has been abandoned, indeed, much IS going on in the background and this WILL result in the aircraft's departure in the near future.
All members of the CL44 Association have been mailed with the up-to-date news and Tom-Toms report engineering activity around the Guppy this very day.

[discus177]

So would the aircraft continue it's planned entry into the HeavyLift fleet, or would she be sent to a museum of sorts? And any news on G-BEPS as of late? Would be great to see her downunder rather soon. :ok:

[Varipitch]

Hi Discus,

The intention has not changed in that the aircraft is to join the said fleet. No talk of museums please-puts the frighteners on us!
Watch this (air) space

[Ada Quonsett]

HeavyLift Cargo Short Belfast RP-C8020, which had been inactive for a period, was noted operating circuits at Cairns on April 9 before departing on April 11 for Darwin as HVY811. The following day the Belfast operated to Dili and return as HVY811/812 before continuing to Brisbane as HVY812 and to Cairns as HVY813 on April 13.
Heavylift Cargo planned to take delivery of 727-227F RP-C8019 at its Cairns base on May 2.
http://www.ausaviation.com.au/Online/traffic/traffic.htm

[Stratofreighter]

On the topic of Belfasts...

Any news from Southend to report? The local list is rather silent...

[HZ123]

Little if any work at all has taken place on the SEN model this year, though it to is rumoured to have been alloted an RS registration. Still awaiting one prop.

[Varipitch]

As the weather warms up,the Belfast Crew ( a rare breed but seen in Essex in Spring months) will return to the nest. Hibernation is over, so 'twitchers' should get ready.
As for the equally- rare Guppy breed, the nest is at least finished and the parents will be spotted fussing around the brood. Trouble is that once the chick finds its wings, it leaves the nest for warmer climes without warning.

[swingtail]

A new rumor is on the cl44 site, the Guppy will dep. end of May, heading West (USA) for respray - Full Heavylift cs -
Recalling the maint. items trying to get it out of Smyrna,TN in 2002, I hardly would consider it logical to fly via the US. But we'll see.
Hope she will do some testing first, good luck to the mission, may the phoenix spread her wings....

[Varipitch]

Swingtail-As far as I am aware, the CL44 Association does not issue 'rumours'-it deals in specifics.

[Stratofreighter]

Seeing is believing...
I for one will rely on daily reports by sources living locally as well... It's been some time (January?) since the engines were last observed being run up. Unless RRTyne can be more specific...

[Varipitch]

Hi Strato-
Are you by any chance an ex 44 crew member?

[Stratofreighter]

Nope.........

[Varipitch]

Strato-okay. It is simply that members of the 44 Club DO get some inside info-especially if they ask on a personal level. But if you have a local 'eye' it should be good enough to keep you posted on action around the aircraft
Be lucky

[Stratofreighter]

Last Saturday morning the 16th of June the following happened with "Guppy":

"Flaps were deployed, lights switched on, all doors opened, props pushed around, but never started - and an APU connected."

According to another local source this was "the monthly systems check that seems to be a regular occurance..."

No further updates are available at present unless someone one this messageboard knows more...

[Nineiron]

'Props pushed around' = ADLS check, normal pre-flight item.
APU? GPU surely? I seem to remember that there was a CL44 with an APU fitted in the fwd belly. I wonder what happened to the equipment?
One of the 44's commercial problems was it's ability to fly to places that didn't have GPU & Airstarter. Fat Albert made a big difference.

[BSD]

For all 44 followers:

Many of you will be saddened by the TCP thread started on the " where are they now" and the Fragrant Harbour.

Sad news.

BSD.

[Putt]

Wow. I flew back from Japan on a Flying Tiger CL-44 in '65. Tachikawa to Fairfield, CA via Anchorage. Great ride, thought about the swing tail all the way home. I was young and immortal in those days. The type was gone by the time I went to work for Tiger in '73. Thanks for the picture.

[GK430]

Walked around the corner, and there it was.
Had not seen it close up since we nearly misjudged the wingspan when colleagues were marshalling it into a cramped apron on a dark night.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/Guppy-1.jpg

[Varipitch]

We are making an appeal to ALL former Transmeridan Air Cargo personnel to attend the CL44 re union this coming Friday (29th June)
The occasion will be used to pay tribute to DAVID PRIEST who died earlier this week. Dave was a veteren of TMAC in the 70's and a flight engineer whose knowledge of the Forty Four has never been exceeded.
Should you wish to attend, please do so via this link or via the Association contact email which is [email protected]
Thank you

[Stratofreighter]

After several months of inactivity (apart from the monthly systems check that is...) at long last things seem to happen around "Guppy"...

On Monday the flaps were down and the lights had been switched on. People were working inside the aircraft.
This Tuesday ladders had been placed up front and at the back and people were again working inside her.

I hope the reunion next Friday will yield some reliable information on her future...

The locals are now certainly keeping an eye on her!

[Stratofreighter]

For the third day in a row activity around Guppy. This Wednesday the engines were given some attention but no-one observed any engine runs if they were actually performed today...
Let's see what tomorrow brings or even next week!

[tinpis]

Anyone associated with the CL-44 flew out of Aldergrove about '79ish carting meat to Libya?

[Varipitch]

The Association's 2007 re union brought together 70 members-and despite London's current level of 'awareness', the event was a huge success. Guests of honour included Captain Elgen Long (Flying Tiger Line), Captain Marvin Beier( Wrangler Blue Bell Aviation) Mr G Leach (Heavylift Cargo Airlines), Flight Engineer D.D.MacDonald (412VIPSquadron RCAF) and Captain Roy Day (BOAC).
Nigel Holden (Transglobe / Tradewinds) brought the sad news that 'Jimphy Harry (F/Eng-formerly with The Lancashire Aircraft Co) had passed away whilst Bryan Grace (F/E BOAC) held the audience spellbound with his recollections of the Avro Lincoln that was used by RR as a flying test bed for the Tyne Engine: His recollection of putting his thumb up from the cockpit and shouting "Start Five" must truly be a one-off (The Lincoln had four Merlins plus a Tyne in the nose.)
Elgin Longs recently published book is a MUST for all aviation enthusiasts-don't fail to buy a copy before it is sold out!

Lastly- here are the details of Dave Priest's funeral:-

WED 4TH JULY 14.15 AT St Peters Church Titchfield Hants
NO FLOWERS

The Association will be represented by a dozen or so members.

[Stratofreighter]

As again this thread has become quiet...

CL-44 Yukon sister HC-AZH c/n 13 at Guayaquil in Ecuador is pictured in the "Feedback section" on page 91 of the current issue of Airlinerworld ( http://www.airlinerworld.com/ ) . This "August issue" will be replaced in the UK by the "September issue" on August the 8th.
There aren't that many recent photos of -AZH about!

In the beginning of July (i.e. this month) work was again started on Belfast G-BEPS at Southend. Anyone got any updates?

[HZ123]

BEPS-That is what we thought but regretably no one has been seen any where near it so far this month. Perhaps next month, having looked around the exterior some years ago at SEN, whatever happens would it not at least require a few weeks hangared?

[Stratofreighter]

A local Southend list stated that a "crew from Oz" was in attendance on the 3rd of July, but indeed I haven't read any reports since, let alone that engine runs were made as these would definitely be noticed...

[Nineiron]

Hi Tinpis, just seen your post. Yes, flew lots of them. Shannon was better. Were you there?

[Varipitch]

Nineiron,

First officers had a habit (!) of climbing over the meat in order to feed their habit-wonder if the smell lingers in the hulk at TIP.
Maybe the Libyans discovered smoked meat that way
Stay in limits
French Emigree to be

[moku]

Was the Guppy responsible for the noisy engine runs last weekend at 5 am in Bournemouth? Sounded like the beast.

Woke me up in Charminster.

[Nineiron]

Tynes don't make 'noise'. The word is 'sound' dear boy.

[GBALU53]

Well chaps if you have not noticed since the 1st of January this year an Atlantic Airlines Electra night stops at Bournemouth each night.
Monday to Friday morning this aircraft departs at approx 0450 local time down to Jersey with there mail and papers.
On Saturday and Sundays I think it is both days the aircraft goes to Guernsey a little bit later so was this the aircraft that was making the said noise on the day inquestion?

[Nineiron]

How sad to think that any correspondent to this forum could confuse the sound of a RR Tyne, with its chordant twin spools, the matching descant of its two wheelcases, the purr of the centrifugal breather, the hiss from the long elegant prop blades and the base sounds from the jet pipe - with that stinking little Alison 501, belching smoke, bleeding air and beating the air into submission with those fat little chopped off props.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Perhaps it is lack of practice, any one got any good sound clips?
Be lucky
David
Mr Nineiron so elegantly put, just like the old girl herself.:D:ok::D:ok:
If prune gave literary awards I would nominate you.

[Nineiron]

I say, steady on. There are some quite good Tyne sounds on some of the video recordings made for the CL44 Association. Not sure if any still available though.The CL44 loadmasters needed to play a recording of four Tynes in order to get to sleep on the rare occasions they made it to a hotel.

[Varipitch]

Ah-so its knock the loadmaster day is it Nineiron?

I always thought that 'Loadmaster in Bunk' was in the After Take off check list old chap.

We certainly did NOT run the Tynes-may have wanted to but too many other important jobs to do.

Yes there ARE some copies of the video for sale
Will I be killed in the rush for 'em?
Nineiron-drop me an email asap-TA

2008 re union dates announced on our website message board

Our webmaster will have splendid picture of the Guardsvan landing at Brooklands soon-ah-more Tynes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[moku]

nineiron,
I too love the sound of a REAL engine. However at that time of day I classed it as noise (i.e. it woke me up :( ) and lasted about 35 mins!

But glad to hear that the Guppy was not responsible. Though it would be nice to finally hear the sound of her engines.
Sorry......
M.

[ABUKABOY]

Come on guys, there's more people, professional and non-professional, out there who are genuinely interested and deeply caring about the two oldies than you probably realise.
Why the secrecy? It's coming up a month since anything was posted here, so why not an update, even if it's not upbeat?! You should be encouraged by the vicarious interest of those who scan here, there's probably more that do than you realise.
So, how about an informed update? Please?

[Yorky Towers]

CL44/Nineiron

Whats the latest?

regards

Yorky (fire bottle) Towers:E

[Varipitch]

Sorry-Been absent but nice to see Nineiron carrying the mantle!

Difficult circumstances Yorky I'm afraid-it would be nice to report good news and certainly, there is no 'doom n gloom' around.
What I can say is that the Tynes were NOT run.
Best thing to do is to send me a pm-are you working Yorkie?

[Varipitch]

Now the good news.....................

Soundtrack of Tynes-YES-there are some copies of the Video still available
Includes a REAL start-up at SEN and an approach to Cairo.
And now-even better News.
We have the ORIGINAL CVR of the near-fatal FAA Vne test flight over Claifornia when N447T was in mid flight test program.
The MLG door became detached and embedded itself in the Horiz stab.
The CVR is uncut and 100% genuine. Captain Jim Seymour and the rest of the crew are heard together with the FAA Chase plane and Edwards AFB discussing the enforced landing on the dry river bed.
Want to know how you can hear this?
The CL44 Association has all the answers-AND one of the original crew members will be on hand to talk about the 'happening' at the next Re Union.
Too good to miss!
Hopefully-you all know where the Website is.

[Porrohman]

Is there any news yet regarding the CL44-O or the Belfast? If they still can't find a prop for the Belfast, maybe they could put a TP400-D6 on instead?

b.t.w. there's a new thread in the Military Aircrew forum on PPRuNe for anyone who flew the Belfast.

[HZ123]

The Belfast viewed from Southend terminal appears to have remained untouched so far this year, infomation also confirmred by the spotters.

[Porrohman]

My comment about the TP400 was, of course, tongue-in-cheek. I did wonder, for a while, whether the Belfast might be used as a flight trials platform for the TP400, but apparently Airbus have contracted Marshalls to do the flight trials using a C-130; http://www.marshallaerospace.com/newmenu/mediaroom/defaultdetail.asp?ID=23
So it's obviously just a coincidence that the TP400 project is slipping to the right and the Belfast is still minus one prop and hasn't been attended to lately.

[Ada Quonsett]

RP-C8020 Short SC5 Belfast C1 - HeavyLift Cargo Airlines
http://www.superwombat.com/Cairns2007.htm

[old-timer]

Is it ex G-BEPS per chance ?
saw it at San Jose in 1992 & last at EGMC,
happy days

[Jamie-Southend]

Yep G-BEPS.

Remember her well, clambering out of the cockpit hatch and walking along the top of a wet fuselage, as an 18 year old apprentice.

Long time ago now :}

[Shannon volmet]

Gentlemen, in case you have forgotten, this is the CL-44 / Swingtail thread. How about you starting your own Belfast / Rolls Royce Tyne ( 512 ) thread and leave us old farts in peace? :)

[Newforest]

Well said, but in the absence of positive CL-44 news, the thread is bound to drift!:ooh:

[ABUKABOY]

Well, Shannon volmet, there is hardly enough activity to warrant two threads, so why not a combined thread for two long-time grounded aircraft ,which, thanks to the diligence of their supporters and owners, could be on the brink of becoming airborne for all we know.
The thing is we don't know, and only have the grapevine here to go on. A hint of progress on either would be of immense interest to this venerable old freighter fart, and probably quite a few other old freighter farts, as well as all others who scan here.
We can but vicariously prod and ask, and more often than not, "answer came there none".
Which is a great pity really.

[old-timer]

How sad am I , just remembered the Heavy guppy reg' - had to do a repair scheme for the No 3 firewall in titanium sheet, very dirty task, oil & carbon mix from the snubber blocks, happy days (at Britavia then)

[Varipitch]

The CL44 Association (170 members-mostly ex 44 air/ground crew and-yes-enthusiasts too) is well aware of the continuing interest in the future of the Guppy. As everyone knows, in 2005 the Association leased the aircraft from its owners, Aviation Leasing Group in an effort to preserve the aircraft at Bournemouth (Hurn). The resident museum however, declined the offer and as a result the sole alternative was to agree to the requests of a German Museum to acquire the beast, dismantle it and barge it from Poole across The Channel.
In the nick of time, the aircraft was bought and as is common knowledge, efforts continue to restore the Guppy to flying condition. As the Association is involved in this work, it is obliged to maintain a 'low profile' with regard the nature of that restoration work. It is a difficult balance and we do realise the frustration this causes.
However, whilst we do continue to honour the owners wishes, we CAN say that definite progress IS being made and the minute that progress materialises, the 'fence watchers' will no doubt be letting everyone know.
We will NOT however, add to any speculation or rumour.
In the meantime-the Association always welcomes new members!!! A Tenner is all that it costs.
There ARE some copies of the video left-£12.50 to members and YES-it includes an engine start-up. The book 'Swingtail, The CL44 Story' is also available to members at a discount. Lastly, the 08 re-union will be a 2 day affair at the Royal Air Force Club with talks and seminars. Amongst the speakers will be Captain Jeff Seideman (Flying Tiger Line & Conroy Aircraft) who will include the original CVR of the flight test incident involving N447T when a piece of the MLG door embedded itself in the horizontal stab.
Others speakers will include Captain Marvin Beier (WranglerBlue Bell) and Mike Newman (Transmeridian Air Cargo).
If you would like to join us-simply send me a private message.

[old-timer]

thumbs up for the RAF club do, nice place, last went there for the guinea pigs recption, I tried the private mail link RRTYNE but no joy ? I'll try again on box 2

[ABUKABOY]

Thanks, rrtyne, for that explanation. Guess we'll keep schtum and await whatever. Just wanted to show there is a hidden as well as the more visible following for these threads.

[Porrohman]

Is there any news that can be reported yet?

As an aside, did anyone ever consider using the CL44-O as a testbed for the A400M engines? Assuming they could be fitted, I'd have thought that the CL44-O could provide a more realistic loading for the new engine than the C130 that's currently scheduled to undertake the flight tests.

[Nineiron]

At twice the SHP of the Tyne, with an 8 blade prop 18" larger in diameter, I assume you envisage a twin installation? The Guppy inboard prop ground clearance (loaded) is only abot 15"
It would certainly shift more than the envisaged 9 pallets/120 troops planned for the A400m, but it would look like a bloody great Budgie.

[Yorky Towers]

Nineiron,
Whens the brush-up course then? ;)
regards
Yorky:ok:

[Waldo.P]

A friend of mine told me it was turning and burning last week?
If it was, this must be good news!:D

[m5dnd]

She was turning and Burning in late november, looked good!!..

A couple of weeks later, the Vanguard at Brooklands did it as well!!

Oh.. The sound of the Tynes...

Cheers
M5DND

[Nineiron]

Its about time somebody made a quality recording! There were days when I heard them for 12 maybe 13 hours or more nonstop and found the silence of a hotel uncanny, not that there were many silent hotels on the '44 route networks.

(73 de GI8AFS)

[Bert Stiles]

After 13 hrs the reduction in noise at top of drop was even better.

[Nineiron]

...and even that didn't always get the skipper out of the bunk.

[Waldo.P]

I have seen the CL-44 website has been updated and very good it looks:D
My question is, as a person who is interested in the old props why is it so secret squirrel? I spoke to GE.com and he would'nt say anything?
Is there plans for the aircraft? I do hope so!
I even called the owner of heavylift to ask but no luck there?
Seems to be very secretive?

[HZ123]

Just an aside had a close up look at the SEN Belfast last week and that is looking in a worst condition than this time last year with only 2 engines /2 props. Anyone know what the future holds for the a/c.

[Stratofreighter]

Perhaps RRTyne can give us some updates? :}

[Newforest2]

Don't hold your breath as he hasn't logged on for almost three months!

[Porrohman]

The latest newsletter on the Swingtail web site (cl44.org) states that "a succession of problems prevented the aircraft from flying out of Bournmouth...." "...in 2006 the CAA imposed gounding order on the aircraft due to lack of clarity in the '44s maintenance programme..." "...it happened when the aircraft had amassed 40,000 hours and how many years ago was that? So we sit and wait."

[Stratofreighter]

I was very reliably informed that Heavylift of Australia has abandoned the Guppy...
This newsletter should have stated as such... :=

[Porrohman]

Have they also abandond any hopes of returning the Belfast at Southend into service?

[Stratofreighter]

I don't know for sure about the Belfast but it doesn't look good... :(
Unless someone else can give some gen!

[sled dog]

I passed through Cairns last month, and there was a nice shiny Belfast on the cargo ramp. What is happening there ?

[Porrohman]

Heavylift Cargo Airlines (Australia) operates the last airworthy Belfast although it's registered in the Philipines. It started life in the RAF Serial XR365 (Hector), was sold to Heavylift (UK) as G-HLFT, then after refurbishment at Prestwick a few years ago joined Heavylift Australia as 9L-LDQ. It was subsequently re-registered RP-C8020, still with Heavylift Australia. It operates ad-hoc outsize cargo charters mainly in Asia and Australasia.

If you Google "Heavylift", search Airliners.net and check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorts_Belfast you'll find more photo's and info.

There's another Belfast at Southend (G-BEPS) which was being prepared for a return to airworthiness but it's status is currently not known. There's a thread in the History and Nostalgia forum elsewhere on PPRuNe concerning this aircraft.

[Porrohman]

I believe that Heavylift will be surveying the CL-44-o and Belfast G-BEPS before the end of March after which a decision will be made about their respective futures. I hope there's a positive outcome.

[Stratofreighter]

Concerning the CL-44: I unfortunately cannot name my sources, but I got rather strong and reliable signals by "those in the know" that Heavylift will not continue the effort to get "Guppy" back to "ferry-worthiness".

It has transpired that some vital technical/maintenance papers are missing. If these papers cannot be traced, found and shown to the full satisfaction of the CAA that same CAA will not allow Guppy to leave Bournemouth under her own steam... :{

[Stratofreighter]

Sorry to be the messenger of bad news Phil,


but if Dave was also known as flight engineer "TCP" working on TriStars apart from Tyne engines then I will have to inform you that Dave died last year... :(

See
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=280849
and
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=280848 .

Perhaps his quotes at
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3892374&postcount=35 will be some sort of consolation...

[Heavy Cargo]

The CL44 Logbooks were taken by Malcolm Porter and Geoff Leach of the CL44 Association. The CL44 is going no where.
The Southend Belfast maybe a different story.

[Varipitch]

I am led to believe (reliably) that the Chairman of the CL44 Association-(who is named in previous messages) is NOT in possession of the aircraft log books.
Similar to all other 44 'veterans'-I do hope for a successful conclusion to the apparent current inactivity.

[GuppyEng.com]

It is a shame that by the actions of some individuals the Guppy's fate has been sealed. I have no doubt that without the interference of some people the aircraft would have left BOH under it's own power a long time ago. Now it will be leaving in a skip. Very sad indeed!

[Porrohman]

Are the "vital technical/maintenance papers" and the "Logbooks" the same thing or are they two separate issues?