ALAEA 2006

[The Mr Fixit]

The battle has been fought and the dust has settled, the Members First Team have strode forth victorious in a landslide victory.:ok:

Big Issues in front of them, how do think the handover went ? :mad: :ouch:

Outsourcing / Lameless Tarmac / Job Security / Aggregate wage / CASA

Sh*t where do they start ? :{ All the best guys hope the members get behind you like they did in the election no use pushing the train along only to let it go off the rails.:ugh:

[Torqueman]

Well they won't have to do much to do more than the last mob.
They made some pretty poor decisions in their time. One that comes to mind is their overturning of the members vote down at Avalon in favour of the Company. := If your members vote on a matter (we are in a democracy after all) you should back them to the hilt. I think they lost sight of the fact that they are suppose to represent those people and the decisions they make.

I guess they lost their credibility after that in my books. Lets hope the new executive listens to their members instead of playing politician.

Torqueman

[SeldomFixit]

Too many "elected" executive members going back to the founding father himself, DC, have ultimately, either covertly or overtly, used the ALAEA to promote self interest and career paths beyond a 7/16th UNF locknut. THAT, has never changed. Brian was a true campaigner and the ALAEA is so much the worse for his having retired. Whilst you have a financial stake in what is essentially a labour hire organisation you can hardly be perceived as having the interests of your membership uppermost in your mind as opposed those of your major source of income. Good riddance to the last lot who should hang their collective heads in shame.

[masterstroke]

SeldomFixit,
Obviously you have been out of the loop for some time now.:rolleyes:

The ALAEA stop receiving any consultancy fees from Forstaff some years ago.;)

[Torqueman]

SeldomFixit,
Obviously you have been out of the loop for some time now.:rolleyes:

The ALAEA stop receiving any consultancy fees from Forstaff some years ago.;)


I don't think he's been as out of the loop as the last executive.

Either way the people running the show have feathered their own nests and weaseled their way into cushy jobs with the employers of the people they last represented. := Funny how the're now pulling the strings and on the other end of the negotiating table. :ugh:

Quote from Darren Hinch, "SHAME". :D

[sydney s/h]

did the alaea get rid of that fat prick from cabin interiors who walks around with a police belt on with his mini maglite and leatherman attached?

that would be a start.

[rudderless1]

Who started the thread over here, should tell people in d&g.

Ps
Brian's back in the office at the moment.
The ALAEA no longer receives payment from the Forstaff, yes that was quite wrong!
I think you will find the new exec operates distinctly different from the old.
The lovely chap from Cabo's has left the building!

[rudderless1]

Time to put up or shut up. You want action well volunteer and be nominated as a Rep
The ALAEA wants you! There is now more OPPORTUNITY for you than whinging and complaining on PPRUNE! Take up the offer and do your part to help the reform of the ALAEA.
Remember, the association is there for all of us, and it will be what all of us help make it!

[sonhouse]

How many SydHM people have not been able to find a satisfactory outcome from the recent closure in Syd?
If you read the Australian Aviation section July7 20.
All the redeployments and redundancies are possibly not satisfactory but no doubt some have found early retirement reduncancy packages or transfere not adverse to their envisaged best/worst case scenario.
The angry will make most noise but the not so angry must also be heard.
With credit to the Previous Executive they spend a great deal of energy in the best interest of the Syd Heavy LAMEs to ensure some form of member satisfaction after a corporate decision to close a formative institution within the Qf group.
Many posters on this site and in other circles appear to apportion the blame for Syd HM closure to the Asn Executive.
The Exec of the Asn have only a limited amount of leverage to sway decisions when to comes to 21st century corporate edits.
The Liberal Federal Government NSW Labor government Qf shareholders and the 30000 plus Qf workers did little or no action to prevent this flawed decision.
What under such onerous circumstances could a Work Choices IR Act Unioin(s) do?
The new Exec faces similar circumstances with Mel heavy but with a longer time frame.
The ACTU are wading in with a Website campaign appealing to the flying public will this work only time will tell.
Decisions are based ultimately by the corporate dollar and in aviation sadly it is lso in the hands of Oil barrons that jack up the cost of travel when a despot in North Korea decides to piss off the West with a poorly engineered missile the presents a threat to gobal stability.
Blame , blame the World we live in.
Maybe Syd heavy was decided in a meeting room at OPEC?

[Turbo 5B]

How many from SHM found satisfactory outcomes? The minority. A handful that wanted to uproot their lives and move and a handful that were gagging to do 12hr shifts. The majority were happy to remain doing a great job on qf aircraft.'The ALAEA exec were not to lame for the decision to close SHM, that was all dixon,cox and Seabury consultants, however they must take some responsibility for sitting on their hands after the desicion was made and not taking it to the company boots and all from the minute the KeithC larke told us we were no longer wanted.
The tool we had to protect us was the enterprise agreement and it was so poorly understood and used by the industrial think tank at bexely it only fired blanks.
No retrenchments or movements should have taken place until the ebas conditions had been met.
As for Melbourne Heavy they have teh same eba conditions and this time qf isn't going to be allowed to ride roughshod over them.

[Hardworker]

Either way, a change in the ALAEA will face a big challenge, by a management team that chases the Bean counters profit, and as per usual they take no responsibility for anything, instead put everything back onto the remaining staff...It makes you wonder why we bother to have management....one Variable goes up and suddenly we have to compromise quality, safety and standards....That is one thing i still havent been able to grasp and management havent answered and the previous team of ALAEA pushed, why do we in australia want to lower our professional aviation standards to the same level of some of the most crappy american airlines in the world?
There safety standards are terrible, the product rubbish and they want to model airlines in Australia on them?
Might be time ALAEA and CASA teamed up to prevent the further erosion of the standards in australia, before there is a major incident and airline management pass the buck as usual...

[sonhouse]

The Asn is a 3million plus service business, serving 4000 members with assests in real estate and no doubt accountable investments let us hope the new people are up to the task.
People have been phoning the head office of late about day to day ongoing issues only to receive vague replies.
Granted the Members First team are new to their service post but members will become short tempered with this new team as time rolls by.
The issues of their daily life continue and most have no time whist the newly appointed are shagging during the honeymoon period.
The business rolls on, day today issues need addressing.
No doubt the Airlines have their plan to approach the new Asn executive are we ready?

[Turbo 5B]

Anything specific that you know about sonhouse? or are you trying to smear the new mob before they can make their mark?
ps They dont bring in 3 million a year . 4000 members times 570 is arond the 2.3 million mark.
And as to the service business... it hasn't been. But It might become one.

[sonhouse]

Who owns the Bexley building Turbo and how much is it worth?
The incoming and outgoing values of the ALAEA Federal Executive are Available for all members.
I'm sure if you request the report that is forwarded to the accountants you willl be accomodated.
The new Exec judging by the Member First committment will be happy to accommodate.
Open and accountable.

[Turbo 5B]

I presume that the building is owned by the members and it wouldnt suprise me if there is investment of funds somewhere, but what that has to do with airline management screwing down the quality of maintenance in Australia I cant quite see.
Have you got some "special" interest in how the new mob compare with the old, Sonhouse?

[sport]

Sonhouse, you and your mates wouldn't be making numerous calls perday to the office to to ask for assistance in areas that should be addressed by local reps? This is not an attempt to tie up resources, where the new Exec. then don't have time to do the more important things? This is not still sour grapes is it, can you really continue this attack for another 4 years? The New Exec. is not blind to your actions they have also read the same book, "The Art of War", But from their position obviously got more out of it.

There is a respect for the new team that you obviously lost, and whose fault was that? Look in a mirror to see the real reason for the ALAEA being where it is now, my vote was for change and none too soon.

[rudderless1]

I heard a petition was circulating the SIT questioning the arrogance of SP improving lines of comunication and being the focal point for that area. Sadly the lad leading this must want more of the same, him and Humphry B Bear anyway.:yuk:

What do you need answered Sonny, I will see if I can seek a good answer for you.

PS according to the AEC there are little more than 3000 active members, far from what has been alledged by the dodgy accounting and reporting of the past.

What exactly would you like access to in the Financials, 19% super I am told is the tip of the iceberg. Just how embarrassed do you want to be?:=

[Turbo 5B]

sonhouse old pal, I would quit whilst I was ahead if I was you.

[sonhouse]

Interesting to note that posters in this forum do not enjoy balanced debate.
I suppose the new guys will for some remain inscrutible for the length of their term.
Wasn't the War cry of the Members first against the old guys that no one is without scrutiny?

[rudderless1]

Your right, there's nothing balanced about this debate. Get someone's help will you, your going down in flames!
Is the only reason its one sided is no one agrees with you unsubstantiated and baseless remarks?
Common Sonny, you can do better?:bored:

[sonhouse]

Rudderless FYI debates are not always balanced by numbers but speakers for and against.
The majority is no always right and the minority is not always wrong.
If you are indicative of the debators the Asn will present for the next 4 years I'm afraid the Companies will eat you up, and any reforms or progress that may happen will die with your baseless and emotional arguments.

[rudderless1]

Well when you work it out, use it and repond to questions and points raised rather than just carrying on in your ignorance and defiance of reality. I believe we have answered with valid responses which you fail to flaw, you on the other hand continue with drivel. The majority may not always be right, but with nothing else to go by..........
:confused:

[sonhouse]

Gee Rudderless I'd suggest you input a bit of Aileron and Elevator lest you lose directional control.
The collective WE is interesting suggesting you are part of the WE.
Pres, V.P. Sec, Trustee I'd hope none of these roles judging by your ability to articulate

[RELEASED]

sonhouse it's a shame you and your mates weren't showing the same interest when Dixon and his mates were shuting Syd H.M down,it seems you only now have an interest when it is effecting YOU(changing of the old guard has limited your carrer advancement),if the same interest was shown by you and those d!ckheads over in Bexley i would not now have to be looking for another carrer

[rudderless1]

:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:
:{ :{ :{ :{ :{ :{ :{ :
Relatively speaking the collective we is those on this thread.
Sonny I tried but I can't trim you out!
:zzz:
Lets see who agrees with you and their reasons?

[sport]

Sonhouse, interesting you mention the merits of a balanced debate, why then when you were moderating the ALAEA forum you banned those that would oppose your view and then once you had banned everyone you shut it down. Now comon now ! !

[Turbo 5B]

Sonny I think you need the help of skippy.
That Kangaroo (wallaby) had more brains than that pack of morons assisting you to destroy the integrity of the association.

[Hardworker]

Well the new team are in, lets see what happens, as they say, time will be the deciding factor enough of the past, can we atleast look forward and discuss what the next phase is?
No more EBA's?
New Industrail Relation Laws?

[sonhouse]

I agreee with hardworker the past is past but the newbies will always remain scrutinised and accountable by others than themselves.
Will there be EBAs?
Only if the majority workforce backs them.
The WC laws for those that have bothered to read them attempts to divide the collective and coerce individuals into AWAs.
If individuals decide that they can get a better deal for themselves from individual AWAs they are saddly mistaken.
AWAs are designed by the current Government to remove Collective workplace leverage to negotiate pay and conditions to meet contempory requirements.
From 1996 onward this incumbent Government has always tried to divide the collect Workforce and with both Houses in the current Parliament they have designed a mechanism to do so.
As to Work Choices....conditions you currently enjoy are targeted by the Legislation/Act and can only be retained by stalwart and unrelenting unified opposition.
Everything becomes a test and any weakness will be exploited.
Hanging on to what you have will be a task enhancement...Well??

[Turbo 5B]

Sh!t eh?
Is that what work choices is all about?
Splitting the work Force. Who needs the federal government to do that when your own union executive was happy to do that for them.
I sincerely hope that the new regime doesn't follow the old regimes back door tactics of shafting sections of the workforce, while telling every one that thats what they really wanted.
Know anything about that sonhouse?
You wouldn't have told sections of the workers that Heavy Maintenance were happy to take o/t banking and reductions in tail payment conditions would you?

[sonhouse]

Turbo I do believe HW was attempting to move away from the blame culture you seem to be entrenched in.
The current Federal government will win when divisive malcontentents like yourself survive and have no positive strategy for the future.
Get over it Turbo you won, I certainly am.
Rather then whinge of the past how about you become the voice of the progressive future or is that to difficult.
Bitch about the past government is a doctrine of the Liberal Party and if you profess to be a person of the people why are you dwelling in the Liberal Party Magma?

[Turbo 5B]

Say What.........?Divisive you siily tw@. The executive you controlled successfully divided QF Lames like never before.

[RELEASED]

how about we start rebuilding the Alaea with the paper trail the old exec left the membership,that's right we can't because the whole lot went through the shreader,it's very hard to get on with it when you have no records of what went on for the last 30 yrs

[sonhouse]

Released Why are you distressed as to what has transpired since 1976 when the Members 1st have had executive sitting members that should be current with the executive issues with the Airlines and the Regulatory Authority.
The Members First were voted in to office by the faith of the majority vote of members given their campained ability to pick up and run with all the issues of LAMEs when they take office.
Are you suggesting the legacy of NEW office is too onerous and are already making excuses for lack of future acheivement?
I'd suggest this new broom that has been formed should be able to establish fresh and useful foundations with the company and regulartory contacts that will supercede all that went before them.
If not be carefull what you wish for.
By the way Tubo stop whining about your victory it is unbecoming.

[Turbo 5B]

You know what sonhouse? I may have misjudged you. I originally thought that you may have had some useful comment, but more and more you are starting to sound like the great toolbelted idiot.
So having said that ....why don't you just crawl back into the hole that you came from and lick your wounds in silence.

[sonhouse]

It may disturb you Tubo that I was never apart of the Federal Executive but a by-stander observing the new and former operations.
The new operation has spent a great deal of the past year castigating the then current Executive.
Critical comment is usefull but it comes at a cost.
Once you take over you must come up with new term usefull solutions.
Dont criticise the previous people unless you have a new and usfull solution.
Tubo and alot of posters on this site only like to castigate the previous without coming up with the new solution.

[The Mr Fixit]

At present I don't see too many managers smiling from where i'm standing ? :sad:

The President's Transit notice stopped a certain manager having wholesale transits in his port. :=

I think these pr!cks walk the walk, I.O even told others he's 'Impressed' by the new president's direct questioning and the secretary's forthright style.

QF mightn't have things their own way now, maybe that's what the big Pow Wow is this week. :eek:

See how strong the backbone is. :ok:

[Turbo 5B]

It may disturb you Tubo that I was never apart of the Federal Executive .

Shouldn't that be APART FROM the Fed Ex.

[Bolty McBolt]

Perhaps we should call "sonhouse" neil ?:}

[sonhouse]

Tubo was the previous federal executive so corrupt as to favour to the detriment of the members?
If so dont make half handed electronic comments...if they were say so...

[Turbo 5B]

I dont recall mentioning corruption. Do you know something about corruption? I think "inept" would be closer to the mark.
Actually i dont think any one has mentioned corruption except yourself.
There was a hint from Released that he/she thyought that the previous exec lied to sections of the members in regards to the views and wishes of the members from heavy maint. What their motives were are unclear. Perhaps it's things like that that gave the last exec a dirty reputation.

[RELEASED]

i think they are still a little caught up in trying to save peoples jobs from H.M.

[Bolty McBolt]

Tropical Trashie

What 12 hour shift? What state? What dept? What are you changing from??
Your post is slightly cryptic

[The Mr Fixit]

As 2500 years of Licenced Engineer get escorted off Qantas property for the last time today may i reminisce of what was the world's safest airline. :*

Somewhere in the night a lone bugler sounds the last post.

WHAT A DISGRACEFUL ACT AND NOW SOMEONE, MAYBE MANY SOMEONES MAY DIE BECAUSE OF IT. :mad:

Not immediately of course but in five years when that 747 is flying around after being serviced and fixed for a PRICE in some far flung country and before the opportunity to spot the cracks arise during detailed checks, the tail will fall off. :=

AND WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A KANGAROO LOSES THEIR TAIL ?

[Hardworker]

Well Geoff "Fuel Cost" Dickson has started the mentioning AWA's and I guess Engineering is in the primary firing line, no more shift penalties, leave loading etc...
Be interesting to know what the New ALAEA Team plans to combat this?
Might be time to jump ship as the RED RAT looks like going from bad to worse....a shame as it has many great engineers that are skilled, professional and dedicated...unfortunately the Management isnt....just in for a quick gain of Status....

[Bumpfoh]

Why don't you ask the question yourself of your local rep?:ok:

After all the new exec is promoting itself on open and regular communications.

Having said that it would come as no suprise that the latest GD announcement regarding AWA's would be news to the unions as it would be to the employees even if we suspected it was coming.:mad:

[Hardworker]

No local reps as yet as they havent completed the nominations. The old reps have been alienated and are so far out of it now, they dont know.....
I suppose it will be a testing time and it is interesting to note that Dickson and the senior managers have announced a 12.2Million wage rise for themselves but want to introduce AWA's to the majority of departments from Check-in, Cabin Crew, Ramp to Engineering...
It must be close to a revolt.....I think everyone is sick of hearing the same old story of "The Cost of Fuel"
Maybe a wage cut to the management would be a smarter move considering the share price has plumetted and doesnt look like recovering...I cant see how they keep saying what a great job they are doing if the share price is dropping and the profit is in a downward spiral....so you sack your staff, pay them less but expect 100% loyality and effort....Its strange, Qantas use to be a company built on pride, now its built on which manager can earn the most money!
Comments?

[sonhouse]

I agreee with hardworker the past is past but the newbies will always remain scrutinised and accountable by others than themselves.
Will there be EBAs?
Only if the majority workforce backs them.
The WC laws for those that have bothered to read them attempts to divide the collective and coerce individuals into AWAs.
If individuals decide that they can get a better deal for themselves from individual AWAs they are saddly mistaken.
AWAs are designed by the current Government to remove Collective workplace leverage to negotiate pay and conditions to meet contempory requirements.
From 1996 onward this incumbent Government has always tried to divide the collect Workforce and with both Houses in the current Parliament they have designed a mechanism to do so.
As to Work Choices....conditions you currently enjoy are targeted by the Legislation/Act and can only be retained by stalwart and unrelenting unified opposition.
Everything becomes a test and any weakness will be exploited.
Hanging on to what you have will be a task enhancement...Well??

Didnt see this one coming?

[The Mr Fixit]

Get out your F@#kin hankies, Sonhouse is back and the water works will flow. :{

Cmon guys lets wallow in self pity and capitulate :eek:

After all thats what they expect :yuk:

I mean EBA 5......EBA6.........EBA7........EBA8 ? :confused:

Pi$$weak people deserve pi$$ weak representation :ouch:

If you're a man stand on YOUR OWN two feet :D

[Hardworker]

Nothing like positive feedback from Mr Fixit....So Geoff Dickson is hell bent on AWA's....it seems almost like a repeat of history....The apprentice training school has been closed down in Alexandria, the training school is at a standstill, eventhough there is probably 6-12months of required CAR214 training to be completed, but Lighthouse said that would cost money...But the icing on the cake is managers meeting with Select LAME's to ask then to undertake A380 for no payment...forget whats written in the EBA's, they want to undermine individuals against each other!
So if history is to repeat, it wont be long before people leave in droves, the remaining people suffer from lack to experience, poor rushed training, unrealistic goals, but management will of course take their bonuses....Why do we have a bonus system in place for management? Surely a fixed contract for the right person for the particular position should be enough...
It interesting on another point, Dickson & Gregg taking a 12.2Million bonus each yet keep contanstly crying about the price of fuel and the down grade of the "Profit", the introduction of AWA's to each department and yet the 30-40 Million loss on Jetstar Asia isnt mentioned, the wasted money on repainting & reconfiguring the Australian Airlines aircraft back into the Qantas fleet...
Any criticism of any management decision is seen as a "Below the line comment"and will not be tolerated....
:ugh: Sad to be happening to a company that has so many good hard working talented people.....

[Torqueman]

Quite frankly I'm getting a little tired of the petty arguments that are festering in this forum.

Sonhouse and rudderless, why don't you two both start a new thread and have it out with each other.............:mad:

I have patiently waited and read the memos coming out of the ALAEA. I am becoming more convinced that the tide is turning. Their stance and the changes they have made so far are promising. What is now required is that the people they represent (who voted and put them in their relative positions) get behind them.

This Assosiation needs to consolidate in order to survive!

If you're not interested in being a part of the future.........well piss off......
If you're happy to watch or be a part of the demolition and disection of the remaining proud Australian Aircraft Engineers......piss off......

Find some other industry to demoralise with your pathetic lives. :{

For those who want to see the industry continue into the future (and prosper) well stand up and be counted. This doesn't just include LAME's, I mean AME's as well. We're all in that same canoe paddeling up SH!T creek together!

It is my intention to become involved in my future. What's yours? :suspect:

[RELEASED]

f@ck it i've left the game and i now own a bottle shop,so if people are interested in good priced grog for people that are left in the game,send me a private msg and i will look after you(for you poor bastards that are left in a skining ship),i'm in the Northern Sydney area of North Ryde.Take care and good ridence to this F@cked up industry.

[A Voice]

Quite frankly I'm getting a little tired of the petty arguments that are festering in this forum.

Their stance and the changes they have made so far are promising. What is now required is that the people they represent (who voted and put them in their relative positions) get behind them.

This Assosiation needs to consolidate in order to survive!

If you're not interested in being a part of the future.........well piss off......
If you're happy to watch or be a part of the demolition and disection of the remaining proud Australian Aircraft Engineers......piss off......

Find some other industry to demoralise with your pathetic lives. :{

For those who want to see the industry continue into the future (and prosper) well stand up and be counted. This doesn't just include LAME's, I mean AME's as well. We're all in that same canoe paddeling up SH!T creek together!

It is my intention to become involved in my future. What's yours? :suspect:

Looking promising? What are the facts you base this opinion on?

Needs to consolidate? In what way? Does this mean joining up with a union that has no idea of LAME issues, for example, the AWU? All fingers have pointed in this direction with the onset of the new ALAEA administration. (Which has been in the works since some have been on the former executive and worked so hard against the membership to turn attention inward instead of towards the membership. ) Funny game they play!

Between the BS they've told the membership over the last 3 yrs, the lies they have told during their election campaign, and the misinformation in notices of late (which goes against the constitution of the ALAEA) simply shows the current federal secretary is nothing more than a power monger and a spin doctor. (i.e. numbers of reps in a work place)

It will be interesting when payback time is due to the AWU how SP and said exec introduce it to the ALAEA membership.....time will tell and the truth will be exposed.

[RELEASED]

the last exec did a great job, heavy syd shut down ( re set up of Avalon) and Tulla nexted,they did a great job ah

[The Mr Fixit]

mmmmmm ......A Voice.........
from where ?.........the toilet !!!!!!

Geeeezzzz what dribble !

Must have been hard crying in front of the office girls when the bad news came through eh ? :{

Were you one of the ones who COULDN'T drive his car home ? :eek:

No wonder the exec went out the back door theyre a bunch of nancy boys

If its too hot get out of the kitchen, ;)

oh thats right you already have, bye bye :D

well thats my spleen vented, back to discussion

Stay true to yourselves and don't sell yourselves short, a team of champions will never beat a champion team

The road will be tough and long, support each other and we will support you.

The longest journey is begun with small steps

PS Company men need not apply for Reps positions thats how I read it.

[Torqueman]

mmmmmm ......A Voice.........
from where ?.........the toilet !!!!!!


The road will be tough and long, support each other and we will support you.

The longest journey is begun with small steps



Ditto. You have to start somewhere.

Good luck to those at Avalon. I hope they can make it work. The guys down there didn't set out to put Sydney out of business. I think people forget it was GD and the Qantas board who shut them down. You want someone to blame, blame them.