Ryanair and a Pilots thoughts

[Irish_Roll]

I'll keep this short and sweet.
.
Love the flying
Crews are great
Roster is good ... in theory

Ryanair PAY IS CRAP
Flight times sometimes exceed block time! reduces sector pay
Pay is manipulated. 5-7 hours = £130 and 7hours+ is £185.... sheduled block then is sometimes 6:55...
Phones in crew control, personnel, Eastmidlands Training are NEVER answered!! If you have a question.... forget an answer that day... wait a week or more for one out of the computer...
Annual Leave is denied denied denied..... Third attempt might get granted.

At the mo... very short of Captains. I'm a FO and very frustrated with AerJet flying some of our sectors. Will stand to lose substantial pay if the standbys continue. Another Airline is working for this bunch of jerks who fail to treat us crews with the slightest bit of respect.

DO NOT JOIN THIS COMPANY UNTIL: Pay is negotiated and sector pay is on a per block or pay per mile basis. otherwise they will screw you for ever min you fly and then screw you again and again.

On a positive note... I have to say Ryanair pilots are very capable, training is excellent, the aircraft are superb to fly and I do look forward to work.... but .... (as above) !!!


forgive the typos... and best wishes and luck to all those starting out their careers!:mad:

[WTB]

So if I've got this right you get paid for rostered block hours not block hours you actually complete? How much do your Captains in the UK take home after tax?:confused:

[HundredPercentPlease]

Irish,

How much do you take home a month (typ)?
How long have you been there (roughly)?
Where are you based (roughly, again, to remain anon)?

[scroggs]

Might be worth a look at this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=208754) in Wannabes for anyone thinking of joining via the TR scheme.

[aerobat]

As you say the flying is good, the other crews are good and the roster must be one of the best in the industry - five on, three off, you can work out your off days months in advance, how many pilots of other airlines can do that ?
Pay depends on base and seat. As a Stansted skipper my take home pay is just over 3000pm, sector pay another 2000 + pm taxfree. No other benefits but not a bad wage.
Spoke to crewcontrol this morning, had a chat with a pleasant girl who gave me the information I asked for.
Lots of standbys at the moment but not losing out on pay as worked hard earlier in the year and now almost out of hours until April.
Agree that the 6:55 days are frustrating but we do get days that are just over the 5:00.
F/O's definately have the worst job but at least thay have the opportunity of a quick command as opposed to 8+ years at some companies.
Ryanair may not be the best company to work for but it is far from being the worst ! :)

[atse]

Anyone reading aerobat's "its really not too bad here post" might care to check out the thread provided just before by scroggs. Gives a different perspective (to put it mildly). aerobat might even find it interesting. (just loved the "quick command" Ryanair-type propaganda - no mention of the many scams perpetuated in that area ....).

[aerobat]

Well I can only speak from my own perspective. I joined a couple of years ago as a direct entry captain, I have been flying 25 years, have worked for several other companies and find Ryanair suits me fine.
I get well paid, home to my own bed every night and fly new aeroplanes with first class, well trained F/O's - in short I enjoy my job. As I said in the previous post it may not be the best job but having worked for other companies large and small at least I have something to compare it with and know it certainly is not the worst !

[Irish_Roll]

Been here 2 years. UK based and worked previously turbo prop.... not wanting to give too much of my identity away!!

I take home £1150 basic, which is going up in March!... and another... £1750 averaged out in sector pay per month. No pension and no medicals etc. type rating cost which I have no problem paying were £20000 including accom and grub etc. We do work hard but see our sector pay eroded as it is based on scheduled block hours. These are chipped away at leaving you sometimes £55 short!!! .. ie.. instead of being paid the £185 due for a 7hour or more block day... we get... wait for it.... £130 for a 6 hour 55 minute day where the flight time exceeds the sheduled block!! At least most pilots here have a great sense of humour!!! :{ :}

If you are a family man,... with mortage paid and looking for a place to earn some pocket money then may be this is the place for you. I hope to see an improvement other wise.............................. I'm OFF!!! along with quite a few other guys who have had enough of the bullshine.

;)

[HundredPercentPlease]

Wanted to compare with easy SFO..

Previously TP, UK based, been here 3 years, £23,000 to join and now £2200 - £2450 a month + £420 loan repayment.

So not much difference.

[mr lancaster]

Irish_Roll
At the mo... very short of Captains. I'm a FO and very frustrated with AerJet flying some of our sectors. Will stand to lose substantial pay if the standbys continue. Another Airline is working for this bunch of jerks who fail to treat us crews with the slightest bit of respect.

DO NOT JOIN THIS COMPANY UNTIL: Pay is negotiated and sector pay is on a per block or pay per mile basis. otherwise they will screw you for ever min you fly and then screw you again and again. .

Excellant. As your so unhappy leave !!!!!!!. You will not be missed

[Macrohard]

Aerobat

5000 take home per month seems a little short of the advertised 100,000 per year, as per the Ryanair website? You guys must pay more tax in the UK than we do here in Aus? And I thought that was near impossible - our tax rates are really high (though slowly improving). Do you not get pension fund paid by employer? What about loss of licence? If you go on holidays do you only get min salary?

Just curious....

[vfenext]

Mr. Lancaster said very frustrated with AerJet flying some of our sectors. Will stand to lose substantial pay if the standbys continue. Would this have anything to do with your post on the agony aunt forum which said Can any one tell me how acceptable it is to have more than one girlfriend at a time[or not] if you are married.and what are the financial penalities?
Many thanks in advance
Ron Can't keep up with the maintainance costs eh! At least Irish Roll can afford to leave while you are caught by the short and curlies!!!:O

[captaink]

Why the f..k complain. Hundreds of postings on this and other forums have warned everybody about this bloody outfit. Still pilots are joining, knowing that salaries are peanuts as well. Why ??:confused:

[HundredPercentPlease]

1. The salaries are not crap. As this thread shows they are somewhat better than a "proper" airline such as easy (for both FO and CPT).

2. I understand the complaint was about sneaky tricks that have been employed since "Irish Roll" started in order to reduce the overall pay. This is a valid complaint in my eyes certainly, and I'm sure that if your airline did it to you, you'd also complain.

[Aloue]

sneaky tricks that have been employed since "Irish Roll" started Where have you been? Sneaky tricks have been going on for quite some time. Throughout that period a small number of FR pilots who had no knowledge (and frequently no interest) in what was happening to their colleagues have posted on PPRUNE saying that pay was great (for them) and that the posts were just from a small minority of trouble-makers.

What those posters never say is exactly what deal THEY are on. There is a world of difference from being a contractor in STN and a newly promoted skipper who has been sent to a continental base on a new contract. I think it is about time that the substantial salary differences in Ryanair were acknowedged by those who declare themselves happy with their lot.

[Wizofoz]

Mr Lancaster,

As your airline currently has several nice, shiny 737-800 (some with nice winglet thingies!!) sitting around decorating various UK airports due to a lack of people to drive them, do you really think a "If you don't like it, leave" attitude is helping the situation?

Would not addressing peoples valid concerns and encouraging people to stay and drive your nice aeroplanes not be a better solution?

[757manipulator]

Wiz...
Would not addressing peoples valid concerns and encouraging people to stay and drive your nice aeroplanes not be a better solution?
This goes against the MOL school of employee best practise, and although mate you and I would agree that getting things sorted in an adult and professional fashion is the best course of action..can you really see pikey air doing this?
If a few more voted with their feet MOL will need to revisit certain dubious actions.
Just my thoughts:ok:

[THE POINTY END]

Been with FR for about 4 years now and I can say that it is a fantastic outfit to gain experience and accumulate hours, but that's about as far as it goes. The reality of working there may suit many Pilots lifestyles, but others will be quite unsatisfied. This is a taste of Ryanair practices:-
1.Called off stdby to d/h out, then operated 2 sectors landing at around 23.30. Assured by crewing twice that hotel is booked to overnite. Get to hotel at 00.15 to find no booking. Can't get booked until Ryanair fax hotel (No answer from crewing on phone). Get to bed at 0200hrs. Up at 0600 to catch flight back to UK. Get home at 1015 with crewing ringing to say I have to drive to another UK base to fly despite not even on stdby yet.
2. Called continuously on A/L whilst on holiday by Training and Crewing.
3. Rostered for simulator on rostered days off (no pay)
4. After diversion landing at 0115hrs, given taxi voucher from Ryanair. Taxi company won't accept as bills haven't been paid. £80 paid from own pocket to take the whole crew back to base. Get into office at 0330hrs, however, officially off duty at 0145 as commuting doesn't count as duty time.
5. 28 days A/L, but they impose up to 6 days A/L on rostered days off so in reality have 22 days incusive of bank holidays.
6. Arrive at work 4 times in 2 months to find someone else rostered to fly instead. Excuse given as "You should have been called by someone, sorry." No claim for travel expences permitted, just half your day wasted.
This is just a typical example of day to day flying in FR. Took a new guy back to the UK the other day. He started sim training in June and still hasn't flown the plane, earned no money and has to take a part time bar job to pay for his accommodation. On the plus side though, the crews are fantastic, the training (when it works) is first rate and people work their a*ses off. You just get kicked in the bo**cks doing your best. Get in, get hours and get out.

[Config]

The Pointy End

Minor correction only... commuting does count towards duty time, but not fight duty.

Irish_Roll

'DO NOT JOIN THIS COMPANY UNTIL: Pay is negotiated and sector pay is on a per block or pay per mile basis'

The pay and sector pay you are on at the moment was negotiated by the pilots. (Although, a review is now over due.) There are plenty of other airlines that would pay you per block, if that's the sort of deal you are looking for, although I don't know of any that would pay per mile. Maybe someone else could help you out there. :ok:

[Wizofoz]

The pay and sector pay you are on at the moment was negotiated by the pilots.


EERRRR..... And who EXACTLEY were the pilots represented by at these "negotiations"?????:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Config]

Themselves... They could have rejected the pay deal that was offered, but accepted. I for one, rejected it because (in aggreement with above) I thought it was a bad deal.
(Maybe I'm playing devil's advocate here!)

The deal is simple - You either work for Ryanair or you don't. If you don't, then none of this should bother you. If you do, remember you don't have to. (Something like that!) It's just all getting very boring now...

[Pilot Pete]

You either work for Ryanair or you don't. If you don't, then none of this should bother you. If you do, remember you don't have to.

If you cannot understand that this affects every pilot in Irish and UK employment then you are very narrow minded. Many choose not to work for Ryanair because of such practices, but the sensible ones support their colleagues in Ryanair and every other airline in their attempts to preserve/ better their terms and conditions. What happens in Ryanair has a knock on effect in their competitors as management try to compete on a cost basis. It is in everyone's interest (as pilots) that Ryanair and Easy and all the other airlines' pilots manage to better their Ts & Cs and that bad practices such as messing with duty hours, disturbing pilots' rest, not giving them the leave they are entitled to, screwing them out of duty pay and the list could go on, should all stop.

I have always been of the opinion that those who join an airline like Ryanair to get some experience to then leave and join a 'decent airline' are slowly but surely dragging the terms and conditions in said 'decent airline' down towards the lowest common denominator. For instance look at paying for type ratings. My company (one of the supposed 'decent airlines') started charging new joiners £10k towards the cost of type training last year. This is a direct result of the lo-cos having such a practice and my employer just could not compete. So do yourselves (and all the rest of us) a favour and join REPA, negotiate proper terms and conditions and don't allow your employer to treat you like dirt.

PP

[I LUV DUFF]

While it was never going to be an Aer Lingus or BA etc,people forget that Ryanair used to be a pretty OK place to work back in the 90`s. The working days were reasonable, the money was pretty good and the relationship between pilots and management was at its peak. MOL one day decides that one of the few ways left to earn a few more bob is to squeez it out of the staff. He recruits the FAT BOYS (ye know who ye are, join a gym!)to run the show and fast forward to today where you have a situation where the days are rediculously long,people are earning the same money as they were 10 years ago(or less if you consider inflation),you have to pay for EVERYTHING yourself,the pension is ****e,the chief pilot won t stand up for his pilots (and is only interested in lumping more work on the pilotbody so he ll get a bigger bonus at the end of the year. What a disgrace!At least M O C and J D stood up to M O L) and the relationship with management is at an all time low.
It used to be a company where you could plan to have a career and look forward to getting your command and the respect that the position carried.(Remember the company mobile phone,the capts company credit card and the frequent nights out at the cost of the company).Then it became a company where you put up with the crap to get your command and then consider your options.Now its not even worth getting a command because the minute you get your fourth stripe you have a target on your back, management having their finger firmly on the trigger.You re going to leave anyway so minimise your time here as you ll only delay you re progression elsewhere.
In short,this company used to be OK,now it SUCKS!

[Boeing 7E7]

I think it's worth reiterating what Pilot Pete has said in his post. I work for another of the larger charter airlines and they too have reduced the entry level package for new joiners. Not really becasue they need to in order to compete commercially, but because they can, and pilots will still join as it is still better than Ryanair. So this mind set that a pilot will join Ryanair, get a type rating, some experience and a command and then leave is increasingly flawed.

All pilots in the industry need FR to sort it's problems out when it comes to the overall package. The real, long term and viable solution is to join REPA and solve the issue. It will help everyone. There can be little doubt that Ryanair and Easyjet are the future for short haul scheduled flying, so it is vital that you in these airlines sort it out - for everyone!

[Pilot Pete]

I work for another of the larger charter airlines and they too have reduced the entry level package for new joiners. Not really becasue they need to in order to compete commercially......

I don't know which charter airline you work for, but the 3 that I have experience with ALL had around 50% of their market flying to mainland Spain and the Balaeric Islands. This market has taken the biggest hit from the lo-cost carriers as it is right in their territory. So you may be right in saying that it is not to compete commercially directly, but I would argue that it is, at least partly.

PP

[396.8T]

Mr Lancester who are Aerjet!!!!!!

[the grim repa]

http://www.flightinternational.com/Articles/2006/01/31/Navigation/189/204346/Pilots+wanted+.html

show me the money,show me the money!

[Boeing 7E7]

Pilot Pete
I'm afraid that you have missed the main thrust of my point. It wasn't aboutwhy terms and conditions are now supressed, but confirming your premise that it is happening and, will continue to do so untill the pilots in Ryanair do something about it. Leaving and joining another airline in search of better conditions is steadily turning to fools gold. I like many pilots, support their uphill struggle to gain lost ground that has occured in recent times.