Qantas; the thread. [Archive]

jb_flyer

23rd Jan 2005, 13:07

Yeah Rolls and Jesski, Im pretty relaxed by it all. Cart_tart (font of knowlege that she is) has explained how to answer the questions perfectly, much better then my rambings to others trying to explain it has been.

I was not asked any questions at these interviews relating to general Qantas information, but I guess it wouldnt hurt to know a little about the company you want to go and work for. The only exception to this was for a (unrelated) MAM panel where I was asked if I understood what a casual was.

And yeah jesski, It took me about 4 months to hear from the last interview, so im not really thinking much about it at all! Im adopting the see what happens approach, Im sure it will happen when it is meant to, when QF are good and ready!

Hell, they may contact us soon and say we are on a Long Haul shortlist, then never get a job, just like all those it happened to before! And MAM may not need staff for a while... who knows? So MAM may not contact me for a job, QF might place me on a Long Haul shortlist for 18 months then say "thanks but no thanks". But you know what? Such is life... there is always another opening, Jet* may come to Perth, I may move to the eastern states, or Dubai, or anywhere! Life life as it comes, Semper Fi!!

JB

Cart_tart

24th Jan 2005, 00:29

Have you thought of applying to NJS JB?
We have a PER base & we operate the QFlink contract for QF - although we're STILL waiting on the decision on who has the contract! Hopefully it will happen this week.
If we get it, there will be some pretty heavy recruitment going on soon so perhaps that would be an option for you!
I'd send in your application just in case. You can always say no if you're invited to an interview!
CT
x

amongthestars

24th Jan 2005, 02:57

I was successful in the panel interview. I guess the people that are having panel interviews over the next few months will be on the same short-list as us?? What does everyone else think? Does anyone know if this is because they need more people because they have a lot of jobs coming up this year or because after the last culling they didn't end up with that many people?????

SkySista

24th Jan 2005, 06:18

Cart Tart,

I know just what you mean, I'm dying to find out if NJS has the contract.... fingers crossed!!!

I sent in my application just before Xmas... got the usual letter... I'm just having a leeeeeetle freak-out because I made a typo at the last second before I sent it away (nightmareish post-office experince on a Friday arvo.... arghhhh :mad: ) Just hoping they won't hold it against me.....!

How long after "the announcement" is made (if in NJS favour) do you think they will contact those who they want to interview? A week? A month????

Hmmm I'm not cut out for this waiting thing!:\

Sky

jesski

24th Jan 2005, 07:39

I just got home from my panel interview... and i'm still shaking!!!
I think i did pretty well.... i certainly wasn't sitting there in silence and was smiling and laughing etc, just being myself. And i had a scenario for every situation. Cept at one moment i realised just how fast i was talking hehehe. Thanks for all your help guys couldn't have done it without ya!
They said that everyone would find out before the second week of feb or so. Amd that i would be contacted by email.
They said its undecided whether they were interviewing for long haul or short haul or what yet. Really nice people they were!

Anyway... now i can relax...... :}
jesski xxx

SkySista

24th Jan 2005, 09:32

Well done Jesski.....

I'm sure you weren't talking as fast as you think... anyway, i'm sure the interviewers have been in your position and know you are nervous so they would totally understand. :)

Were there many others being interviewed, or was it more a "come in at XX time to see us" type thing?

Good luck!!!

Sky

jb_flyer

24th Jan 2005, 10:56

Hey jesski great news on the panel! Its easy now, you can anytime now!

Cart_tart yeah NJS is a very viable option for me, and if the announcement is made I will most definatley put the application in. There is a personal reason why I wont now, the only reason I am persisting with the QF one is becuae I have been waiting over 12 months now (I know- not long comparativley) but I dont want to throw it away none the less. But yes, you sound like a great set of crew and a great company!

SkySista, another pertie! Time will come, and when it does its almost a surprise!

Good luck to all! And thanks for all you guys/gals support!!

JB

SkySista

25th Jan 2005, 01:44

SkySista, another pertie! Time will come, and when it does its almost a surprise!

I think a "Perth Wannabes" bash is in order...! :}

Sky

jesski

25th Jan 2005, 09:51

Sky-
i dunno how many others, they just told me be here at 4.30 etc etc and i didnt see anyone else except for the guy after me, but i finished early. I think they were actually conducting 2 interviews at a time, and overlapping them if u know what i mean.

Well i used to be in perth... but im a goldy girl now. Moved here from perth 2 yrs ago due to dads job when ansett went under... but i was still in school then and hadn't even thought of being cabin crew then!

Paris_flyer

25th Jan 2005, 15:29

I can't believe that Qantas is now interviewing again for more shortlists!!
I was one of the strike breaker crew, I went to my panel interview and got a letter saying it was successful and I was now on a shortlist for another 6 months. More waiting around - is it just me or does Qantas seem to think they can just call you up and have you drop everything at the drop of hat for them then you end up sitting around for months not hearing anything.
What makes them think they are so important that they can just put everyone on a shelf and just pick them up when THEY are ready???? You almost have to put your life on hold for them on the hope you get a phone call!
I am so sick of Qantas and it is a company I will never have anything to do with ever again! I was happy at first with all the outcomes but now it's just more waiting and waiting and waiting and I'm fed up with the way they treat potential employees.
And, the pay in LHR is 10 grand less then what you get in Aus.
Only £11, 000 a year!!! And they expect you to survive in London on that joke of a wage!
PF

OZcabincrew

25th Jan 2005, 16:02

Paris Flyer!

When we interviewed two years ago, we went through the whole Qantas recruitment process, not the Adecco process like recently. We were on the shortlist for a year before we got a call and offered casual. Qantas do expect you to drop everything at the drop of a hat, some people given only a couple of days notice, this happens on more than one occassion. The way of thinking is that if you're not willing to drop everything then the next person on the list probably will. They will always have people willing to do the job no matter how long it takes or how little notice they give, so you're not the first to be kept waiting. You're actually lucky that you were offered ANYTHING, thousands of people would've loved the opportunity to have gone to London to work for QF pay or no pay, plenty of people that were on the shortlist for over a year and then sent the unsuccesfull email!

It's obviously your choice not to have anything more to do with QF, but waiting is the name of the game unfortunately (& trust me, i know about the whole waiting thing) and as said, if you're not willing to do it then there are thousands of people which are.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do!

Oz

cabin secure

26th Jan 2005, 00:10

I had an interview recently and saw at least 5 other people coming or going while I waited. I had friends interviewed early last week and know people with interviews in February as well as a friend with an interview date in April.
In other words, I think every man and his dog got a panel interview.
So who knows?
The A380 comes online next year so there is a logical possibility with movement within the Qantas cabin crew ranks, that there will be positions available through most areas.
It makes sense that transfer lists are attended to initially and then the company can review where F/A's are needed.
ie. Regional, longhaul or casual.
Then no doubt those on the short list will get calls after Qantas have worked out how many crew are actually needed, and where.
My guess is that most of what will be on offer will be casual. With the ability of Jetstar and Qantaslink being able to migrate to mainline I'm sure most slots within mainline will be filled.
However that is only my opinion. We have all seen how highly unpredictable our industry has been in recent years.
And I don't profess to being to being clairvoyant!

GalleyHag

26th Jan 2005, 03:07

cabin secure

It doesnt quite work like that. In regard to Jet* and Qantaslink they are only guaranteed a certain number of positions within a 6 month period BUT QF have to recruit externally for permanent positions and this applies only to short haul.

You are right though, Im sure there will be positions available in the coming year, with the LHR base opening and crew leaving to join that base, new aircraft etc etc. However, the type of positions offered will be anyone's guess be it fixed term, casual or permanent.

Paris_flyer

Im surprised at how quickly your attitude changes, maybe you are not quite ready for QF just yet, if you cant handle a bit of a wait on the shortlist.

You should bear in mind though that people waited 18 months on a short list only to be given the thanks but no thanks letter and within weeks QF recruited again. It's a sad fact, but thats how QF does business, you either get use to it or move on.

miami1

26th Jan 2005, 07:24

Dear Paris_flyer.
while i am completely apposed to "strike breakers" ill not pass judgement on somebody i dont know. Maybe now however because Qantas have stuffed you around, and countless others for that matter, you might now realise one of the reasons we wanted to strike. It was to protect our current job conditions and give security to our future employment. Qantas has an arrogant management structure, they dont give a damn about potential or current employees because they know they will always have the applicants to fill the postions. Its in all our interestes to have our conditions kept as best they can be, believe me, its in your interest as well if you do ever get in. But if your desparate to fly for them then apply for London. That base is a shining example of just how they want all flight attendant to be paid. My friend just few to London yesterday all the way from sydney,and attended an interview and was told by the "panel" a postion for her looked promising, then today, they called to say she was rejected. while a " strike breaker' wearing fish nets and knee high white boots got through to the second interview stage next monday, I really dont understand their logic !! . The just screw people all the time without consideration.

Grove

27th Jan 2005, 10:14

They treat you badly before you start working with them and unfortunetly it doesnt get much better once you do start..I hate to say it but Qantas isnt such a great place to work.I was so excited when I started now I cant begin to tell you how dissapointed I am. Sorry!!

amongthestars

1st Feb 2005, 03:26

Just heard a rumour that the people that are having panel interviews at the moment are going to be on a different short-list to the people that did the training. Don't know if that is a bad thing for the people that did the training or bad for the people that didn't.

Crop Dust

1st Feb 2005, 03:44

amongstheothers,

How did you hear this? I bet they are going to put the new shortlisters on before because nobody wants to work with an ex-strikebreaker.

amongthestars

1st Feb 2005, 04:09

Can't say, but I hope they don't get put on before us.

Cart_tart

1st Feb 2005, 05:53

Perhaps they should go back to the ORIGINAL shortlist that they treated soooo well, before they chucked us all out so they could employ a bunch of strikebreakers?!
Maybe if the rumour is true, you will all know how we feel?!

jesski

1st Feb 2005, 10:22

why should either group get to 'go first' if they were all originally interviewed in the same recruitment lot?

SkySista

1st Feb 2005, 12:00

Jesski,

I think Cart Tart is referring to those who were on a shortlist, left dangling for 12-18months (or more!) then told "sorry, we don't need you", only to see Qantas turning around before that shortlist was in the bin a couple of seconds (you know what i mean!) and hiring a new lot - who turned out to be 'strikebreakers'.

It's crap that they had all the criteria and waited around on a shortlist and then were dumped- and others who applied AFTER them were employed first. That's what CT means.... right???

Anyway if you search for it, the thread is quite long and you'll see what they're talking about.

Sky

Cart_tart

1st Feb 2005, 12:10

indeed you are right skysista

jb_flyer

1st Feb 2005, 12:23

Cart_tart, my feelings remain with you and all the other dumped shortlisters. It is with great pleasure I notice your discontent directed toward the company and not the individuals who are interviewing this time round, many who were not in the system at the time of your (phoney) recruitment drive!

My wish is that QF had not have wasted all that expense stringing you all along for so long, only to cast you out, then have another period of recruitment! I can only imagine the feelings you all feel.

Keep it up all! Keep smiling, the cabin crew job god will smile on us all I am sure!

JB

yt13

2nd Feb 2005, 01:00

Had my panel interview 3 weeks ago, went quite well I thought, then got a call from QF HR saying that they were having trouble getting in contact with some of my referees (one was only in a meeting!) and seemed in a hurry to do so.

Then received an e-mail last weeks letting me know that my application had progressed and I would expect to find a result in around 4 weeks.

Hope this helps anyone waiting, I'm not in a hurry at all and what happens happens as far as I'm concerned.

Good luck to all!

YT

jesski

2nd Feb 2005, 09:57

YT-
I just got the same email today. Does this mean we got through the panel interview?

CT
ooops sorry.. i was misunderstood. My bad. Of COURSE the shortlist people should get to go first, no doubt about that. I agree entirely.
However i was replying to the posts by amongthestars and cropdust... i realise now i was probably wrong but at the time i thought they were referring to the people who were hired at the end of last year as 'strikebreakers'. I see no reason why the people who were interviewed then an got through, accepted and then trained for those positions should go before the people who interviewed at the same time for the SAME positions yet didnt hear anything until recently should go first. get me? Im confusing myself..... sorry if i am wrong and totally misunderstood everything.

waiting_game

3rd Feb 2005, 09:38

Just thought i'd share a story I heard from a friend today.

She received a call from QF today asking her why she was late for her panel interview, her response to the lady was "what are you talking about?? She explained to the lady that she had been for an assesment centre for a long haul position but didn't know anything about a panel interview. Obviously QF stuffed up suprise suprise.

Anyway she asked the lady why should she give up a days pay to go for an interview to be put on a list that will most likely lead to nothing after being kept hanging for the next 12 months. Her exact words " wake up to yourself lady, i'd rather wipe arse for the rest of my life (she is a nurse)then work for a company as screwed up as Qantas"

Pretty funny i thought.

cheers
wg

yt13

5th Feb 2005, 15:27

who knows jesski?

They seemed pretty keen to get things done tho! Where are you based?
YT

amongthestars

8th Feb 2005, 01:29

Does anyone know whether we will be contacted during the 6 months on the shortlist, to give us a bit of an update on what is going on or do we just sit back and wait???

amongthestars

8th Feb 2005, 04:12

Hey there, hope you are having fun at training! Why havn't they called me yet for Eastern???? I'll do anything. Let me know if you hear anything else. Take care.
Among the Stars.

easternboy

8th Feb 2005, 06:44

The crew at Eastern dont want you anyway, chewed up strike breakers are the last thing we need. Therefore keep hanging out for the LH position.

Cart_tart

8th Feb 2005, 07:18

Does anyone know whether we will be contacted during the 6 months on the shortlist, to give us a bit of an update on what is going on or do we just sit back and wait???

hahahahahaha

sorry. had to laugh!

Don't hold your breath. I was on the shortlist for 15 months (not 18 like QF would like to think) and we didn't hear much at all apart from when the list expired and they'd keep us on for another week or so. then at the end of it all they told us all to F off so they could go employ strikebreakers! They're such a wonderful company. I love them. I can't wait to work for them!

Eastern boy - I Luv you! *MWAH*

waiting_game

8th Feb 2005, 07:36

easternboy,

Grow up. I have alot of friends who work for Eastern and am happy to say they don't have your opinion.

amongthestars,

I don't think we are high on QF's list of priorities, they got what they wanted out of us so now i'm sure we have been put at the bottom of their list of things to do.

If what midnight is saying is correct maybe you might get a call soon, you never know whats around the corner......

cheers,
wg

jettlager

8th Feb 2005, 08:00

Good call Easternboy.

Those of us at Longhaul dont want the lowlife either.

"Sent to Coventry" is the best that they could hope for.

Jettlager

amongthestars

9th Feb 2005, 13:53

Fingers crossed for everyone on the shortlist, good luck.

Crop Dust

12th Feb 2005, 08:43

This is what I am hearing.... Latest news when it comes to the short term contract people. They are being offered interviews at Eastern.... (most probably most know this). What are the trips like on Eastern??

AND they are going to do the short term contracts at AO now.... I don't think Dixon really is great when it comes to motivating the troops..

OZcabincrew

12th Feb 2005, 11:24

Do we know what's happening with the 11 month long haul contractors? where are they going at the end of their contracts if they didn't take London????

Oz
:confused:

waiting_game

12th Feb 2005, 11:37

Yeh and relocate to cairns to be a casual for just 3 weeks. HA!!!! The thing that gets me is they actually have the balls to ask people to do this.

Please tell me nobody has actually taken up this offer after all we have been thru?? Because if you have you must have rocks in your head and I don't care what your reasons are you are bloody mad and trust me you will regret it I can assure you.

I hope AO cabin crew do strike and stick it right up QF arse!

And before anyone gets all "oh you were a strikebreaker" on me let me just say I went through all the proper interviews, assesment, panel etc interviewd by QF flight attendants not Adecco being told all they way along it would be for an 11mth contract. Then I get offered the 3 mth positon which I take not really knowing what I was getting myself into (naive I know but S##t happens). After training finished I joined the FAAA and I can assure you there was no way in hell I would have worked if you guys had striked.

So please try to hold back on the abuse.

Oz,

A friend of mine took the 11 month contract position and after it ends she gets to go back to her old job at QF if she doesn't choose to go to London. I think alot of the 11 mth contractors are already QF staff. Also I believe a number of MAM casuals took up the 11 mth contract aswell so I would imagine they woud go back to working for MAM but i may be wrong.

Cheers,
WG

sandow1

13th Feb 2005, 11:56

Hi,

I went to a Perth Panel Interview and then received an email two weeks ago saying they were pleased to advise that my application would be continuing. Is there anyone in Perth that has received this and have you heard anything else.

Thanks
:confused:

jb_flyer

13th Feb 2005, 13:39

Here I was thinking that the Perth had not been contacted... now it appears to be just me (again!)

Oh well, one had to laugh... purgatory (or limbo) is a interesting place to be at least.

Good Luck all!

JB

amongthestars

13th Feb 2005, 23:57

I thought I got told 3 weeks training and then 3 weeks in Cairns???

waiting_game

14th Feb 2005, 00:28

amongthestars,

Either way its a joke and we are just being used again.

wg

OZcabincrew

14th Feb 2005, 01:24

hi

so you guys which were originally employed to cover the strike action have been offered AO?

Oz

waiting_game

14th Feb 2005, 02:09

Oz,

We have been offered just 3 weeks casual employment which I would imagine would be to cover any strike action taken by AO crew.

Also I have heard of a few more people being offered Eastern, not sure of the details though.

Cheers,
WG

604chic

14th Feb 2005, 02:15

As at a cuppla weeks ago when I contacted the Union, Naomi Hodby, the outgoing Resources & Planning Manager, had stated (in negotions for permanent work for the very few Long Haul casuals), that there are no plans to make permanent the 11 month contractors.

FAAA encouraged 11 month contractors to be pro-active and ensure QF are aware of our desire to be made permanent, should that be their wish.

Have not heard of ANY contractor being offered 3 day training for AO, etc.

Also, just confirmed that PER Long Haul base to downsized to about 90 from about 300 ( can anyone confirm these numbers?).

sandow1

17th Feb 2005, 04:40

For the information of the Perth people that seem to be sitting in the dark!!!

From the Panel interview held recently;
My references were called today and interestingly enough they were told that I was applying for a permanent fixed term contract with QF. Maybe they could tell us that!!!!
So it will be interesting to actually be told anything like what it is we may be offered.

At the interview I was told that they were compiling a short list for the comming months. They could not say if it was for contract, casual, permanent, domestic, LH or Short Haul, and would I also be interested in MAMs as a casual!!!!!! Basically would I take anything they were going to dish out my way!!!

WoW, what a feeling to walk out of an interview without exactly knowing what it was I applied for...... I love this industry and everyone in it, but as time goes on, it seems the strong arm of most avaiation companies is killing the one great thing about Flying, " The Happy, Fun, Professional" Cabin Crew that are the face of these Multi Billion $$$$ companies,,, I am sad that we are all feeling so let down by the procedures that have been put in place of recent times in hiring Cabin Crew.

I just wish the Best for everyone caught in this messy process right now, who knows where we will end up, or if at all!!!!
Good Luck to all!

jesski

18th Feb 2005, 00:33

Just updating...
I heard from one of my references this morning letting me know they were contacted.
Then i got a phone call from good ol Claire at Qantas saying the birth certificate extract copy i provided wasn't acceptable, it had to be the full certificate. So i then faxed that through.
Had to wonder why that wasn't picked up earlier... oh well.
Jesski

flytheplanemay

19th Feb 2005, 07:32

My references haven't been contacted yet, but they contacted them last year when they offered me the strike breaker position. Do you think they will call them again?

waiting_game

21st Feb 2005, 06:39

Hi,

Got a call to start training for MAM.

I hope this is not QF's attempt to recruit more strikebreakers. What does everyone think???

I'll go along for the ride but if I see anything suss i'm outta there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not going thru that Bulls##t again!!

wg

Iguanahead

21st Feb 2005, 10:17

waiting_game,

Congratulations that's fantastic news, I'm so happy for you!

We knew you'd get there in the end, all that patience has paid off, and it couldn't have happened to a nicer person. I'll be having a bevvy or two to celebrate for you. :}

So when do you start?

RollzRoyce

21st Feb 2005, 10:35

WG!

Congratualtions!!!

I'am on the shortlist with MAM and I'am dying to recieve a call to start training.

Will you be based in Sydney?? I wonder if they would call me?
Seems liek things are on the move!

When do you start training?

Rollz
:ok:

jb_flyer

22nd Feb 2005, 03:45

Hmmm... interesting...

Lets see if those who make the choices have determined that I have spent enough time in limbo land yet...

Good luck to all who are waiting!

And while on the waiting topic.... Congrats to waiting_game!!!! Go have a great time!

Fingers crossed to all :ok:

JB

RollzRoyce

22nd Feb 2005, 05:04

OK!

Some news...

There will be 2 training sessions held. One starts this Friday and it is currently full.

The next one will be earlier in March. Not sure about the status of that one. Was told to give it a few days and might get a call.

Fingers Crossed

Rollz

:ok:

waiting_game

22nd Feb 2005, 05:40

Hi all,

Thanks guys for all your best wishes.

Iguana, you and I have to catch up for a drink some time and have a good chat. Thank you also for all the advice you have given me, its been a great help.

Rollz, i'll have my fingers crossed for you!!! hopefully you will hear something in March.

JB, I can understand about you feeling frustrated that you are in limbo, but at least you haven't been told no so you never know whats around the corner!!!!! my fingers are crossed for you too.

I'll be starting training on Friday so i'll keep you all posted as to how i'm going.

cheers,
wg

SkySista

22nd Feb 2005, 06:26

JB,

you weren't at the EK interviews this past weekend, were you? Could have sworn I saw someone who looked just like ya there - you may have a twin you don't know about! :D

Sky

PS Congrats Waiting_Game, great news!!!

surfside6

22nd Feb 2005, 07:55

You people never learn.In your blind rush to become Cabin Crew you have not learnt anything from the "strikebreaking"episode at Christmas.YOU ARE BEING USED.Once an agreement has been reached between Qantas and the FAAA you become yesterday's toast....old and stale and only good for the rubbish tip.

jesski

22nd Feb 2005, 09:53

thats a bit harsh dont u think surfside?
This is a dream of so many people on here, why cut them down like that? So qantas screwed a few (lot) of people but we are all well aware of that.

and from me as well... CONGRATS wg!

surfside6

22nd Feb 2005, 10:05

There are other airlines apart from QF.They place greater value on you as an employee than Qantas ever will.
As has been said elsewhere be careful what you wish for.

waiting_game

22nd Feb 2005, 11:11

Thanks Jesski.

surfside6 you are entitled to voice your opinion and you very well might be right. Im not counting all my chickens before their hatched i'll just go along and see what happens.

Cheers,
wg

amongthestars

22nd Feb 2005, 11:35

Just a little bit of advice to everyone. Ignore Surfside. Afer the past couple of days I have received many abusive PM'S from him/her. According to Surfside, I need my 'BRAIN WASHED OUT WITH HYDROCHLORIC ACID'!!!! Don't worry, to all the QF shortlisters we will get there, I heard that there maybe a NZ training school coming up in the next few months aswell, and then another MAM group. We just have to stay positive and remember we have already come along way.

OZcabincrew

22nd Feb 2005, 14:05

Surfside, are you a current Qantas employee?

if not, then stop telling everyone how you think Qantas treat us, its employees. Yes, they stuffed a lot of people around in regards to recruitment and continue to do so, myself being stuffed around as we speak, but all i can say is get over it or just simply deal with it. It's the whole industry not just Qantas as a company, you ask people who are waiting for an answer from Emirates after being on the shortlist, the waiting period seems to get longer and longer and no one can get an answer except, "we're still processing it, about another two weeks", if you can't hack how you get stuffed around (presuming you've been burnt by Qantas or another airline before) by an airline, maybe you need to try another industry.

Not an attack, just some advice.

Oz

ikey

22nd Feb 2005, 17:16

QF
Feel the need to keep their HR departments busy thats all it is most of the time..... SORRY ! I was accepted buy QF long haul two years ago ,put on one of their their mystery lists for 18 months then offered MAM work by them ( no thanks ) , Later a strike contract(no thanks) then told I had to reapply haha can you believe that . Life is to short to waste .
I mean your paying all that money to a department you may as well get them to do something :ok:
PS more overseas jobs though give it time :hmm:

surfside6

22nd Feb 2005, 22:10

Private Messages are just that..Private Messages.
I have sent 2 to you and one was a response to your message.So lets not exaggerate.I also notice you have been threadbanned.
Further I write these posts because I am concerned about the treatment you will most likely receive from Qantas.I know what Qf is like ...I work there.
Ozcabincrew.You need to make up your mind how you feel about Qantas.In another forum( New Australian Australian Airlines EBA) you totally contradict yourself.

easternboy

22nd Feb 2005, 23:19

Correct me if I am wrong Ozcabincrew, but you are NOT an employee of Qantas yet. You are employed by MAM as a casual, through this contract crewing company. If you are going to have a go at someone at least represent yourself honestly.

Surfside6

I dont really understand your comments, how are the MAM casuals being used? They only operate within short haul and the short haul EBA does not even expire until later in the year, therefore there is no agreement to be reached with the FAAA.
I believe Qantas need more short haul crew and as per their policy they employ more casuals.

I personally would be quite interested to see the ratio of permanent/casual within short haul, considering the last time permanent crew were employed was back in 2003.

OZcabincrew

23rd Feb 2005, 00:31

easternboy, check ur pm's

Alotta

24th Feb 2005, 02:32

PM for yo IKEY:)

jesski

26th Feb 2005, 22:12

any news of anyone being invited to the apparent march training group?

Suelle

27th Feb 2005, 02:11

Hi,

I also have done the Perth recruitment group assessment in September and then the Panel Interview in December. They did ask if I would be interested in doing MAM casual and of course I said yes. I received a phone call in January asking me to fax thru my RSA certificate, I did ask the question with the lady and she said everything was looking good. I then received an email notifying me that Qantas would contact me in around 4 weeks. The letter I received on the 28th January.

Someone advised me that there may be training commencing in March ?

I have heard nothing since......does anyone know what the go is ? Or any indication when we will find out what is happening ?
Is it a wise move to contact them and ask ?

yt13

27th Feb 2005, 05:24

I'm in exactly the same position as you Suelle, I asked and was told my application would be presented to an Executive Team and I would hear after that, however I have not yet been asked to complete a medical.

YT

jesski

28th Feb 2005, 04:47

Suelle
Yeah i am the same as you except i went for group asses in brisbane.
My references have been contacted about 2 week after i received the email sayin they would be, but that was about 3 weeks ago now.
I spose its just another waiting game......

RollzRoyce

1st Mar 2005, 02:19

Hi Folks!

Just curious to find out if any one has been called up to start the training session this month? I'am on the edge at the moment!!! How long does it take to receive a call??? :{ :hmm: :confused: :sad:

Rollz

jesski

1st Mar 2005, 09:28

looks like we are all in the same boat at the moment then doesn't it... dammit i just want to know!!!! :*

OZcabincrew

1st Mar 2005, 09:51

"How long does it take to receive the call?"

i waited one year exactly on the shortlist to get the call, i know two girls who waited on the shortlist for three years before they got the call. You have to realise this is QF and there are a lot of things happening around the place, but just a bit of info for you cos i know what it's like to be in your position. I was talking to a CSM last Sunday and he said that his partner received "the call" and is due to start training today in MEL for the next group of casuals to come into Perth. When we were having interviews for permanency at the end of Jan, 30 or so people were interviewed, i don't know if this group were offered casual of if this CSM's partner went through with you guys?

just thought i'd let you know.

amongthestars

1st Mar 2005, 11:28

Another MAM group starts training in Melbourne tomorrow for Sydney base.

AIRBUST

1st Mar 2005, 22:26

But WHY?? is Qantas recruiting when it looks as if the last lot of fixed termers will be let go. GOOD hard working dedicated people. Flying is being shipped off shore to cheaper alternatives!! What are these interviews for MAM casuals?

GalleyHag

1st Mar 2005, 22:58

AIRBUST

This is standard Qantas procedure, they cannot retain the fixed term crew as this would require them to be converted to permanent. There is currently a "recruitment freeze" on (which doesnt effect the employment of MAM Casuals, Thai, NZ or UK Crew OF COURSE) and as we all know permanent employees cost far more then ditching the current fixed termers and starting over again. From memory it has been some years since Qantas has employed (or converted) people into permanent positions in long haul and in short haul the last crew employed into permanent positions was way back in March of 2003.

This is not fair, but thats Qantas. The only people that have any certainty of their future and careers are those crew based in Auckland, Bangkok and London.

You have to understand Qantas is a struggling company that needs to ensure it makes a $1billion profit this year, so that senior executives achieve their bonus' at your expense.

Just out of interest, this is from www.faaa.net

1 March 2005

Attention All Victorian Long haul Flight Attendants

VIC BRANCH NEWS

Loss of Flying to Auckland Based Flight Attendants

The Victorian Branch is both appalled and disillusioned at the latest Company decision to remove 4 positions for Melbourne based Flight attendants from the LA trips. When advised of this action through the Planning and Scheduling Committee, we strenuously objected to this decision, highlighting the severe negative impact it would have on the base, in particular the escalation in reserve line rotation, the financial loss to members through the removal of tradition flying and the overall loss of stability in lifestyle.

We were told that these negatives would be negligible, as the situation would be managed through the directed leave program and base transfers. This is simply not the case. Given Melbourne was, on the Company's own admission one of the most profitable bases, providing above average customer satisfaction in all areas, it is difficult to comprehend the motivation behind this demoralising action, which at best will deliver minimal cost savings to Qantas. It would appear the reward for excellence is another backhand.

Whilst we are incensed at this decision, we are bound by legislative requirements and EBA Agreements, consequently there is little action we can take. In fact, Management, advised me at the last Planning and Scheduling Meeting that we did not own the flying and it would be allocated by the Company at their discretion.

Over the last 6 months we have seen several decisions which continue to marginalise the contribution of Melbourne Longhaul Flight Attendants, and we fail to see how these short term cost cutting exercises and flawed resource management can benefit the Company's Sustainable Futures program in the long term.

I urge ALL Flight Attendants to write to senior Mamgement from the CEO down, emphasising your individual concerns. We all want Qantas to be the most profitable and best Airline in the world, but to do this, you must make management realise that they must have incentives for employees, not regression.

RollzRoyce

2nd Mar 2005, 04:31

I was told by MAM that Qantas did not conduct a recruitment recently for the current/upcoming training sessions.

They are just training all the people from the shortlist and having them ready for utilisation.

I was also told that the current training sessions may be the last training sessions to be conducted this year. :hmm:

Rollz:ok:

jesski

8th Mar 2005, 08:51

anyone heard anything yet????

cabin secure

8th Mar 2005, 09:34

I was told at my panel interview that there were presently no positions available, and we were being interviewed for a short list.
So I guess there is no hurry.
I have heard some people have had a "no thankyou" email.
And I know people with interviews at the end of April so I guess we just have to be patient.
The 11 month contracts in Sydney and Melbourne will be up shortly, so who knows where that will lead. Given the London base opening and so much South East Asian flying going to shorthaul, one can only speculate what movement to expect.
A girlfriend working as cabin crew in longhaul tells me they are overstaffed. (One individuals opinion).
Not the greatest of news.
My apologies.
But we have to be realistic to avoid disappointment.

Captain.Q

8th Mar 2005, 10:41

CABIN SECURE
Your friend is right :Longhaul have excess crew but only in some categories.in other categories..CSM and CSS they are short.Forward planning of manpower at QF has always been abysmal

jesski

8th Mar 2005, 21:14

Thanks guys... i think thats what i wanted to hear!
I was just hoping i wouldnt get 'no news is bad news...'
Im in no rush. I mean itd be great if it happened now, but if it doesnt, thats ok too. I thought we'd be in for a long wait, but i really wish that they hadnt said 'yeah, you'll hear in 4 weeks!'. I wish theyd stop telling us stuff like that when realisitically they probably knew they werent gonna meet that.
I spose we can keep wishing all we want but it aint gonna make anything happen!
anywho.... im off to my boring boring job.... hahahaha
jesski

OZcabincrew

9th Mar 2005, 02:13

Hi!!!

You'll learn not to believe QF when they say things like you'll hear in 4 weeks", believe it when you see it.

Don't forget that they already have training school's for the next lot of casuals already in training. The last group of casuals going to Perth started training a week or so ago. There are also a lot of other things happening at the moment like the downsizing of the Perth long haul base, so they have to work out what's happening with all of those crew?

just be patient, good things come to those who wait.

Oz

RollzRoyce

9th Mar 2005, 05:02

Well....The Waiting Game is FINALLY over for me!!!!

I got the call today to commence training on April 11! I am lost for words. Really excited!! I hope that those of you who are still waiting get the CALL soon! :ok: :D :p :O :E

RollzRoyce :ok:

yt13

9th Mar 2005, 05:40

Well done Rolls!

Hopefully I'm up soon too, anyone based in Melbourne heard anything????

amongthestars

9th Mar 2005, 06:51

rolls royce is the training for MAM? And what base is it for?

RollzRoyce

9th Mar 2005, 09:52

amongthestars,

Yes the training is for MAM and its in Sydney.

Rollz :ok:

Iguanahead

11th Mar 2005, 11:36

Hey Rollz!

Woooohoooo! Whose doing their happy dance now? :}

Congratulations, fantastic news and well deserved too.

Happy flying to you. :ok:

Iguana

RollzRoyce

11th Mar 2005, 11:41

Hey Iguana and yt!

Thanks for your kind words!

Yes it was definately worth the wait and I am really looking forward to flying!!! :E :}

Cheers,

Rollz :ok:

TSSOV

12th Mar 2005, 21:07

Congratulations RollzRoyce!

Thats fantastic news:D Now you have a bit of a wait til it all starts. I was busting to start from the moment I got the call till the first day at training... and I only had to wait 3 days! Enough about me. Do you have a uniform fitting a couple of days before too?

Anywhoo... good luck. Tell us all about it!

TSSOV:D :D

RollzRoyce

12th Mar 2005, 21:51

Hey there TSSOV!!!!!

I know the waiting is going to drag :hmm: :ugh: :rolleyes: but I am more than happy to wait. I can make alternative arrangements for other commitments this way....so I guess its kind of worked out for me!

It's really funny, because at nights I can't go to sleep from my excitement! You probably know what I am going through! :D

I have to go to QCCD for my uniform fitting and Security photos the week before my training. Really excited!!!!

Thanks for your support!

Take Care

Rollz :ok:

OZcabincrew

13th Mar 2005, 15:05

Hey Rollz!

I don't know if you get a choice like we did in regards to the wheelie bag, but just a tip, if you do get the choice, choose the international size as i was the only stupid one in the group who chose the domestic size bag because we were domestic crew, not a stupid way of thinking right? (this is without seeing the actual bags). However, when we got them, the domestic size wheelie bag was way to small and the handle not long enough. Now i'm 6ft and i could barely fit a pair of shoes, t-shirt and shorts in there, so i have recently been able to swap it over and it is a lot better! so make sure you get the international size if you get the choice. I know the groundschool that came through after us automatically all got given the domestic size.

SkySista

14th Mar 2005, 01:31

Congrats Rollz! Have fun! :ok:

RollzRoyce

14th Mar 2005, 09:59

Thanks SkySista!

Oz! Thanks for your advice. I've seen those domestic wheelie bags. I dont think I could fit a thing in that! I will definately go for the International one. From what I remember the casuals here got to choose the one they want! But iut may have changed! (I hope not)

Rollz :ok:

Suelle

21st Mar 2005, 01:17

Hi all.

Has anyone any news of whats going on at the moment since their panel interview in Perth ?

I havent heard from Qantas for over a month.

It is a painfully slow process.........

jesski

21st Mar 2005, 05:00

Hi Suelle
Well i had my panel interview in jan in brissie, and then i got an email saying i was through that and they would be contacting my references. that was on the 2nd of feb. However they did say it could be at least 4 weeks, so i am hoping to hear something soon!
Have they contacted your references yet? They only took about 2 or 3 weeks to do that for me.
Jesski

OZcabincrew

9th Apr 2005, 03:27

Hi!!!

As i am aware, like probably everyone, casual and full time (if it happens) won't happen until the next financial year, but have any casuals at all received any notification as to the outcome of their interviews completed a couple of months ago, ie shortlist etc? Had heard some casuals from SYD had received "no thanks" letters?

Oz

RollzRoyce

9th Apr 2005, 04:02

Oz!

I think Anygivensunday99 (I think that’s his/her nick) was given a start date this month. Not sure if it is the class on the 18th though. I think he/she was re-interviewed in January.

But hold on... Just reading over you post ....I think you are actually referring to the casuals already employed by MAM...who have applied for the permanent position...Sorry :)

Can't comment on that topic.

I received my Qantas uniform yesterday...Its SO HOT!! :cool: Did a fashion parade to my whole family. I really like the Men’s uniform. They gave me so many items of clothing that I had to clear out a lot of clothes from my wardrobe. The luggage is cool too. Go the crock leather!!

Oz, they automatically gave me the International size wheelie bag without me even having to ask for it...So I was lucky!...luvn it!

Not sure if I should turn up to day one of training with my uniform though, as we were told to wear business attire.

What do you all think? Uniform or just business attire on day one?

Thanks,

Rollz :ok:

Iguanahead

10th Apr 2005, 00:15

Hi Rollz,

Just wear the busines attire. Most training schools get given a date to start wearing the uniform once everyone has one.

Good luck with everything, you'll have a great time. Always remember it is what you make of it. So stay positive, enjoy, and never forget how and why you got there. :ok:

Iguana

Nihao

10th Apr 2005, 04:30

Congratulations to you RollzRoyce! Have fun! It's good to read from others that the hours for MAM casuals are quite good and consistent.

Does anyone know if MAM are going to be recruiting again? I just registered yesterday.

Any news would be appreciated even if it's for a language speaker recruitment drive.

Thanks:}

SkySista

10th Apr 2005, 05:38

Congrats Rollz! About time ;)

Have a blast, won't you! :ok:

Sky

RollzRoyce

10th Apr 2005, 09:25

Hi Guys!!!

Thanks for your advice and kind wishes!!!

There is 13 hours and 15 minutes left for my training to commence!!! I can’t wait. I just want to thank everyone here for there support during my waiting period!!...and for all the advice I have received!

I will definitely wear Business Attire tomorrow! I went shopping today and bought a nice folder to put all my notes in etc..

I also gave my car a well deserved WASH... It’s sparkling! I think I am going to have an early one tonight....Not sure if I would be able to sleep though.

I am looking forward to meeting some fantastic people (hopefully) in this training class. I will keep you all updated throughout my training on what’s happening.

Just like to wish everyone all the best!!

Rollz :ok:

k-lo

11th Apr 2005, 08:17

congratulations rollz, its been so exciting following your progress! i always have abig smile on my face when i read your posts...

someone:
do you *really* need a drivers license to apply for a MAM spot?

RollzRoyce

11th Apr 2005, 11:06

DAY 1

Well what a day it has been!!!! I am exhausted already and this is only day one INTRODUCTION!

Rocked up at 8:30 at the Qantas building and mingled with the other trainees, until we were called to go up to our class.

We have two great trainers. One lady one male! Absolutely fantastic people.

Went through the class introduced ourselves. Again a great bunch of people. About 16 of us and half of them a female and the other half male. So it worked out well. Its a young group so that also makes it fun! The class consists of many people who were on the fixed term contract for the December period. So lots of previous EP's experience in the class.

New destinations that we will be flying to will include Mumbai, Tokyo and Manila in the near future. Although I think flights to Manila have already commenced with Short Haul.

Had a coffee break!

Then a session where we did a group quiz based on Qantas and its history. Our group and another came equal FIRST!!! Viewed a few presentations on Qantas and its products...Very interesting!

Then we went to get issued our ASIC (I.D) Cards! Felt so proud (I wish that each and everyone of you can experience that feeling one day...for those who are still waiting HANG IN THERE!!!...Your day will also come)

Then went over grooming and presentation and did another activity based on this.

And that concludes day 1. Tomorrow we go over the lifestyle of a flight attendant etc.. We start EP's on Wednesday...We are going to get slaughtered...but I am looking forward to it.

Catch you all soon!

Rollz :ok:

P.S. k-lo glad that I can make you smile!!! :D

jesski

11th Apr 2005, 22:26

*insert squealing noise here*
omg rollz thats so cool!!!! i can only imagine the permanant smile plastered all over your face! Congrats congrats congrats! :D

hands up..... whos just a little bit jealous??? :O

jettlager

12th Apr 2005, 02:30

rollsroyce,

congratulations on your new job.

As an international FA I find it interesting to hear from your report that the domestics will be taking more of our flying by operating to Mumbai and Narita.

Given that the 743 currently operates SYD-BOM and SYD-NRT I'd be very interested to hear how that will be achieved.

I'd appreciate any advice on the above.

Cheers,

Jettlager

H_Girl

12th Apr 2005, 05:21

hi rollzRoyce,

congrats!

just make sure you eat properly and don't drink too much during EP's. I dont want to sound like your mum but you will handle it alot better if you have all your wits about you. Just remember that the instructors are your friends and don't want you to fail so if you need help just ask them.

enjoy it as it does get easier!

Jettlager,

the Perth s/h crew will be doing Narita, HongKong and Singapore out of Perth next roster on the airbus. i don't know whether they could do the same out of Sydney.

cheers,
H

gigs

12th Apr 2005, 06:04

j/lagger etc dont know if this helps but,have been told by union rep that next sh eba is not 3 hrs of eastern standard time but proposed to be 5 hrs to allow more ports..cheers gigs

jettlager

12th Apr 2005, 07:11

gigs,

thanks for the info.

I'm interested in hearing how your and your other shorthaul collegues feel about the fact that at each EBA you FAAA representatives undercut and undermine the longhaul division's traditional INTERNATIONAL flying.

Our conditions are under attack from management and yet it could be argued that the MOST damage done to us is done by the shorthaul division.

We don't understand the ethics of it. Is self interest at the expense of others the norm and considered without shame at shorthaul?

Jettlager

P.S. What was that band payment thing all about?

RollzRoyce

12th Apr 2005, 07:20

Hi Jesski, jettlager, Biscuit Chucker and H_Girl!

Thanks for your wishes and kind words!!!

Well its been another long day! But I am really enjoying myself at the moment.

Not sure how BOM will be achieved but they may launch the A330 on that route in the future. I think, as gigs has mentioned, the Short Haul EBA is due to expire so they may amend that on to it etc???

I know that the 767's operate on the Narita route (I think the QF 21, 22 etc) so we can actually do those trips.

Thanks for the advice MUM (H_girl)...just kidding :) No seriously thanks, I will definitely keep what you said in my mind when we start going out with the Crew!!

Im too tired to talk about what today’s training involved, but just some usual familiarisations with the duties of a flight attendant etc... Was fun!

Tomorrow is EP's :\ Not sure how I feel about it at the moment! I think I will enjoy the drills and all, but not the exams!

Take care all!

Rollz :ok:

gigs

12th Apr 2005, 13:47

mr jet lagger thanx for your response,how do i feel, ive been mam for 3 yrs short of 3 mths.i love flying i love my job.rights eba union/mam(same office) future etc are, all a big nothing to me.i and my assocs.get a great income for the job but,thats it. we are as said many times on many posts on the out side looking in.do i believe in seniority job security and doing your time etc yes, i do and had survived like this at ansett for many yrs. do i think that the way divisions and my type of employment denudes working conditions of your folk,yes i do.do i like it,no i dont.could i say more......................oh yeh!!!!!!! cheers gigs

jb_flyer

12th Apr 2005, 14:19

Jettlager;

I see (as an outsider) like this. Qantas obviously has some verry skilled Industrial Relations officers on board, because they seem to have out manuvered you all. Like a Military Strategy, instead of attacking one of their larger slices of the workforce in one frontal assualt, they have split you guys up totally.

Here is how I have seen it. The Howard Govt has reforms in place that prohibit protected Industrial Action by a group unless specific actions have taken place (eg: negotiation of a EBA, negotiations breaking down, proper notice given etc). So, lets divide the Long and Short haul up, so one cant strike on behalf of the others. Also put them on seperate EBA, and make sure they dont expire at the same time. Now, we will write an ambigious "regional flying agreement". Now anyone we feel like can fly new aircraft (A330), anyone can fly into Asia. Now just train up some "eergency crew needed for the peak period" (strikebreakers/ fixed term crew) to crew the only Long Haul exclusive aircraft (B747), crew the rest of the capacity with overseas bases (NZ and BKK, now also London), and shift all regional flying to SH. There, LH outfoxed, EBA signed, has taken a few years in the making, but it worked hey?

Now the SH debate. SH must be feeling pretty good, getting all this flying, new aircraft etc. OK, start up a offshoot Jetstar, begin replacing domestic routes with Jetstar. LH can still operate A330 and 767 domestically and regionally, and hang on, so can these casuals from MAM (hmm... same office as the FAAA??) Now MAM are on a DIFFERENT EBA, no striking remember, so crew anything you like with them. Now tell SH crews that the number of places they can fly east/west of Australia will change, permanancy will become a thing of the past, and oh, negotiate? Nah, better of just telling you. If you dont like it, tough! Not like planes will stop flying...

Australian Airlines routes can be taken off them, and reinstated as a Qantas flight pretty easy, 767 can be flown by Long or Short haul, and even by MAM casuals.

So we have 5 individual groups that they can focus on one at a time (as EBAs get renewed) to whittle down conditions etc. And each group is in a corner, with (seemingly) no option but to say "OK" and sign away their lifes.

I hope and wish I am wrong. Lets hope the FAAA have an effective strategy to combat this. But the old "look after your own" thing seems paramount.

So in (a much needed) summary and conclusion, your short haul colleuges appear to have little choice about "stealing" the Long Haul routes. Just like the London Base seemed a forgone conclusion.

JB

Not that im saying that I agree with the above version of events, its just the way I see it. Can we get back on topic now perhaps?

jettlager

12th Apr 2005, 22:20

Thanks for the replies guys.
No more fulltime positions for shorthaul?

The continued push towards casualisation of the workforce is nothing short of disgusting.

Sorry for hijacking the thread but I've one more question.

Rollsroyce,

are there any language speakers in your class?

Thanks Jettlager

P.S. The funny [tragic] thing is that at Longhaul we have more to fear from the outcome of the shorthaul EBA than our own.

gigs

12th Apr 2005, 22:40

couldnt help but add/// correct as above/ i like to call it jeffs 5 prong attack with every division covered. gigs

OZcabincrew

13th Apr 2005, 06:56

jb_flyer

"767 can be flown by Long or Short haul, and even by MAM casuals."

jb_flyer, MAM casuals are short haul, we're not a completely separate crew who only fly certain sectors on certain aircraft with a big hat on our heads stating MAM! The only thing different is the contract etc. We do all the same flying as permanent crew, casual's crew 767 and A330 aircraft every single day!

This month PER S/H are flying to SIN, as of next month PER S/H are also flying to HKG and NRT as per the bid package.

jb_flyer, another correction, as said before, casuals crew exactly the same aircraft as any short haul permanent crew member, obviously excluding 747. So QF can't "crew anything" with casuals as you said.

Not having a go at you, just giving you the correct info.

Oz

:D

gigs

13th Apr 2005, 07:50

oz, i to am mam and didnt find the post offensive its just stating the obvious of what an employer can do with a casual work force and,as in the 747 has a little before your time.these guys are on our side and would like great condts/full time etc for all.

jb_flyer

13th Apr 2005, 10:33

OK I think some of my comments have been mis-interpreted.

The point of my post was to show that Qantas has insulated itsefl from any threat of industrial action by making the tactic less effective. By divinding its operations into 5 cabin crew groups, and basing increasing amounts of crew overseas, and having so many "subsiduary companies" they basically can hold almost any amount of flying with minimal disruption to the flying public.

Oz, I know that you guys are doing a great job, in one of my recent trips over the Nullabor I could not pick the casual from the permanant, and thats a credit to all of you! My point was although you may not see yourselves as any different to the permanants, and the passengers may not, and indeed your jobs are no different, but the Industrial Relations Commission does. As you are covered by a seperate agreement between the FAAA and MAM, and not under the SH EBA (FAAA and Qantas) this means you guys cannot participate in any protected industrial action if the SH crew want to. Now I dont think strike action is something all (any?) crew want, but lets face it, there are not too many other aces held in the workers hands! Aside from agreeing to lesser conditions of course.

And the beauty is that when its time for MAM EBA renewal, who knows what could happen? MAM hold the QF contract, but Im sure that could easily be given to any other company (JB Pty Ltd for instance) if that company could demonstrate a cheaper option. So instead of staying at the same hotels, why not the Airport Inn, or less pay, less conditions etc. Never know, the current QF management is not known for kindness latley.

I agree with Jettlagger. It is nothing short of appaling. Will this stop me wanting to do it? No. It still is the only way to fly for Qantas right here right now for a new entrant (unless i lived in the UK, Bangkok or NZ of course). I just hope that the 5 divisions realise where the opposition is coming from (HINT: Its not each other....) and that any new agreements will aparantly with conditions that QF sets.

JB

Oh and PS: My sentance about MAM crew being able to "crew anything", perhaps I could have reworded that paragraph a little better and for that I apologise. The correct meaning was that MAM crew can crew any aircraft that a Short Haul crewmember can, as the paragraph was about the SH crew checkmate. Was illustrating the depth of options QF have to crew those "SH routes" routes, with LH crew on 747 (domestically flown) A330 (domestic and regional) or 767 (domestic and regional) or MAM crew on 737, 767, A330. I guess a CSM would have to be found from somewhere but, is this a CASA requirement?

RollzRoyce

13th Apr 2005, 11:11

JL!

No Language speakers that I know of.

JB,

Doesn't the FAAA decide which hotels we stay at and the conditons of the rooms etc. as oppposed to MAM?

Rollz :ok:

jettlager

13th Apr 2005, 11:19

RollzRoyce,

thanks for the info.

Enjoy your training.

Cheers Jettlager

GalleyHag

13th Apr 2005, 12:24

jettlager

Unfortunately short haul have no control anymore over our conditions or the type of flying we are required to undertake and we are the only ones to blame.

When casuals were introduced into short haul the FAAA assured all crew that the use of casuals would be "strictly" controlled and casual would not disadvantage permananet crew.

Now we have a situation where for the last 3 years the only new entrants have been casuals. No one knows the actual figures but it wouldnt surprise me to learn the figure would be as high as 700-900.

Therefore even if we wanted to take industrial action over any offer we were not happy with, it would be pointless as Qantas have an entire workforce capable of crewing flights for some time. This disadvantages our position when it comes to negotiating our EBA and Qantas know it.

Casuals enhance our working life through Flexiable Work Arrangements etc but also diminish our ability to reject things like the increase to 5 hours from the current 3 for regional flying. Like long haul with the removal of the overseas base restriction short haul crew cant blame anyone except ourselves as we agreed to the use of casuals.

Its not just long haul that should be concerned about the short haul EBA it will also effect MAM casuals, regional progression and wannabe cabin crew as Qantas wants to insert into the EBA a clause stating "no requirement for permanent employment". At present there is an agreement where the ratio is strictly controlled (yeah right). Therefore a MAM casual will be a MAM casual for ever in a day with no opportunity for job security or senority as mentioned gigs would like to see. Furthmore crew at the bottom of senority will always be disadvantaged (which the faaa assured crew will not occur when casuals where introduced) as no permanent crew will be employed and regional progression will not be activated which in itself is appalling.

When we were first introduced to the idea of regional flying it was explained to short haul that it would be a shared arrangement on the airbus. No one expected that it would result in the near closure of the Perth long haul base and take a lof of the traditional short regional flying away from long haul we always thought it would be shared. Now with the new divisional flying agreement and the possible introduction of new long range aircraft like the 777 which is not covered by any agreement short haul are getting more and more regional flying.

But what can we do absolutely nothing, if Qantas only offered 1% and told us to fly to the moon we would have to just accept it. The funny thing is if any industrial action was ever considered the FAAA would be on one hand supporting us and on the other directing MAM casuals to work as thats what the law dictates.

jb_flyer

13th Apr 2005, 13:38

Wow... I should change my original 2 posts to read "What GalleyHag said"

Talk about succinct! (sp?)

JB

OZcabincrew

14th Apr 2005, 02:42

gigs

didn't say i was offended, but as jb_flyer said, some things could've been worded better.

Oz

amongthestars

14th Apr 2005, 06:04

Alot of MAM shorthaulers are qualified to operate the 747's aswell.

OZcabincrew

14th Apr 2005, 16:27

I know of one person who was casual (now permanent since the PER S/H base opened) if he would be willing to be trained on the 747 to cover strike action from long haulers at the time and if he and his friends/colleagues did, QF and MAM would look at it favourably. He said no he wouldn't do it and majority of his colleagues said yes, he got permanency and they didnt!

Oz

gigs

14th Apr 2005, 22:13

sorry oz but that is not as such correct,could be that person is telling you thoses stats and they were not endorsed?as it stands this was all in the past with very different situations.and yes strike breakers or what ever you want to call them is like galley hag said/ backed into a corner/we started at mam got lots of work then near stop work meeting with l/haul got zero work=zero income means zero mortgage repayments.to help us out being new guys on probation with new employer after just loosing our prev flying job at an. qf. offered to help us out!/buy endorsing many on 747.my personal options were to go straight back on the dole/still doing mam and being a union member/and get a fill in full time job,when i could,to then look for a proper new job outside of flying forever.option b was to be the bad guy which when i was employed expected.this situation will not happen like this again the precedent being set for future events.now before im shot down in flames would any knockers turn their back on qf. go on the dole get a job a k.mart until they could,asap get a car selling job to pay the 300 to 400 a week your loosing to credit cards to save your flat for me???little like chalk n cheese.hassell has told a friend that no full time employment will be offered while he is in power/not a gossip factual info/ .i must say also the stealth and measures qf.went to for the above gave me an interesting insight into the culture of the company to say the least. mam said yeh go qf.said thanks union called us scabes?????????think about it....sorry for bad typing i hate typing.

QFRegional

15th Apr 2005, 04:02

Ozcabincrew

When was your friend made permanent and which division? I think they may be pulling your leg.

OZcabincrew

15th Apr 2005, 06:40

This person isn't a friend, but someone who i flew with a few times and this is what they told myself and the other person i was with. They were made permanent when the PER S/H base opened and are now based in SYD. True or not, i don't know, just what we were told.

Oz

QFRegional

15th Apr 2005, 06:54

Well this person you flew with was pulling your leg as the Perth short haul base was opened well before the MAM's were trained on the 747 to cover strike action. So he/she was already a permanent short hauler.

OZcabincrew

15th Apr 2005, 07:01

thats really interesting as he/she was definately casual when he/she came to PER. The PER base isn't exactly huge and there are a lot of ex casuals there and they all knew/know each other, so i don't know what he/she was talking about then as he/she was definately casual! strange?

gigs

15th Apr 2005, 07:06

the person would appear to be telling the correct info.long haul stop work meeting then mam 747 training /think feb 03/ then a few months latter per opened s/haul...these are the exact facts..all this was well before 3mth stuff......cheers gigs

604chic

15th Apr 2005, 07:54

Also know of MAM Casuals previously SYD-base relocating to PER in order to take up a permanent SH position within the last two years.

Does this help?

RollzRoyce

15th Apr 2005, 11:35

MAM has never trained casuals for the 747!

You probably mean the ex-Strikebreakers trained on the 747 who are now employed by MAM because of Qantas' moral obligation after no longer requiring them...I think we need to make that clear.

Rollz :ok:

jb_flyer

15th Apr 2005, 13:55

I was just having a read through the MAM EBA, talks nothing about restrictions on aircraft types, just says that you will be trained to the same standard that the client airline mandates.

So as I see it, QF just has to contract MAM to provide support to Long Haul, and bingo. And the Long Haul EBA 7 does allow casuals, with many of the same clauses that the short haul EBA has, and appears to be breaking.

JB

Suelle

16th Apr 2005, 04:13

Well its been almost 8 weeks since any contact. But Qantas Recruitment in Melbourne phoned me on Tuesday. They told me they were sorry it was taking so long, but my file was in execuitve review, that my references had been contacted, and the next call I would receive would be in May, to do a medical.........has anyone else heard about their progression since their CC interviews ??:confused:

jesski

16th Apr 2005, 08:27

thats a step forward suelle..... well kinda. at least they contacted you. i have been waiting about the same time.... i can only hope for a similar phone call.

yt13

16th Apr 2005, 08:33

Been waiting too, hope I hear soon!

flytheplanemay

18th Apr 2005, 05:58

I received a letter in the mail today asking me to go for medical and fill out the security check form.

After QF get this info, it will take around 4 weeks to be contacted.

Anyone else get this?

yt13

19th Apr 2005, 05:20

Can someone please help me out with the telephone number in Sydney for recruitment?

I'm away from home at the moment and recieved an e-mail saying that my application is being held up because they are still waiting for documentation? Sure that they should have everything!

Maybe someone could send it by Private Message to me?

Thanks in advance!

Flying_Sarah747

19th Apr 2005, 11:27

I'm just wondering, these positions with Qantas that you're interviewing for, are they permanant positions, or for MAM casual/Adecco?? Which bases are they looking to fill?

yt13

20th Apr 2005, 10:56

Anybody out there to help with the number?

Grove

20th Apr 2005, 12:52

check your p.m yt13

yt13

20th Apr 2005, 13:17

Thanks Grove!

Called HO today, left a message for a call back, receptionist said that heaps of e-mails and letters had gone out so they were flat out - didnt get a call back so the number will come in handy!

k-lo

21st Apr 2005, 23:30

Rollz:

Hows it going?! You've gone all quiet - must be busy!

:)

RollzRoyce

22nd Apr 2005, 00:19

Hi k-lo!!!

Its going really well. A bit full on, but I am able to absorb most of the infomration that is being thrown at us!!!

I dont think I have ever laughed so much in my entire life, than I have in my traning sessions!!! So many funny things have happened and thats what I look forward to everyday. The impact drills are fun and funny! (especially when we stuff up and have no idea what we are doing...we look like the biggest lost cases :confused: :} :rolleyes: )

Will keep you updated at a later date hopefully! But right now I have to go and study for todays class!

Rollz :ok:

jakejet

22nd Apr 2005, 00:45

rollz royce

impact drills are fun and funny, are you serious, and its funny when you stuff up, what in the hell have we employed.
EP's are serious, that is what we are there for!
I know that EP instructors look at this site, I wonder what they think of your comments.
I hope you are never on a flight that I'm on.
How in the hell did you get in, just shows how flawed the screening process is

SkySista

22nd Apr 2005, 04:28

Aww, come on jake, don't tell me you've never got the giggles in a class before! :)

I think what Rollz meant is that he's having fun learning all this new stuff. To someone who loves the industry, anything you learn is 'fun'. Doesn't mean you take it any less seriously though.

It can be hard to concentrate when one menber of the class laughs, it's contagious. Then everyone laughs.

And give them a break, it's new stuff for them. Of course some things they are unfamiliar with will be funny at first. I think people need to have a sense of humour in this industry, or they'll wither up in no time! :p

Not to sound harsh, but you weren't at Rollz' interview, you didn't see the group activities, so you have no idea what qualities prompted them to choose Rollz. Therefore I don't really think you're in a position to say they shouldn't have hired a particular person. ;)

I'm sure this class once they have finished training will be just as professional as anyone else - while still being able to laugh at the amusing aspects of the job! :ok:

Sky

OZcabincrew

22nd Apr 2005, 07:06

Thank God Adecco no longer do the interviews, there were some absolute shockers that came online!!! No offence, but any man and their dog was getting in for a while there!!!!!!

Oz

jakejet

22nd Apr 2005, 08:05

Yes your'e right in a way Skysista, I wasnt there! but I have been there when we there are new classes and its a bit of a worry.
I have as much laugh and as much fun as I possibly can, and some of the things the airline industry does it a joke, However not EP's.
The public does not look at our profession seriously because of the trolley dolleys that we have, and looks like we have employed another one,.
Its the whole MAM scenario that annoys me, if only we could employ people on a permanent basis then people might look at the job differently.
I shouldnt be so hard on Rollz. but I hope you and he/she understands my position.

SkySista

22nd Apr 2005, 08:08

Jake,

I understand where you are coming from. Having fun is one thing. Being unprofessional is another. However as I said, everyone deserves their chance, maybe Rollz could have worded the enthusiasm differently!

I agree, some airline processes & procedures are a joke, and I do see your side of the story - there ARE some shockers out there! :)

RollzRoyce

22nd Apr 2005, 15:04

I'm going to run out of "chill pills" soon!

jakejet,

I dont want this post to turn into a heated arguement. You do have some valid points in your posts. I totally agree with you. From day one the first thing our instructor wrote on the board was 2 words, "INTENSE and FUN" ---> that is what EPs is all about! And they were absolutely correct!

Now lets come to the FUNNY side of things.

I am sure you also had your funny moments (if you are a flight attendant and if you did EPs training) so ease off a little. We only started last week and we are being bombarded with new information everyday. Its a learning process and its not like we were all "issued with an EPs certificate at birth"!! It takes time...hence why it is called TRAINING.

I think people need to be a little even tempered when it comes to reading posts because it really S#ITS ME when you have people telling you off, when all you are trying to do is radiate the good vibes you get from doing something you absolutely love across to others!

Having funny experiences is a part of the EPs process. Especially the first week. Obviously people are going to stuff up and we are all going to laugh at it together and LEARN from our mistakes...and make sure we do not do it again. AND let me tell you that I will be more than happy to welcome you on one of my flights Just to prove you wrong!

If I was as bad as you thought I was, I dont think Qantas would have missed it and I am sure I would have been issued with a warning...but my results from exams and practicals indicate otherwise! So no further comment.

Rollz :ok:

OZcabincrew

23rd Apr 2005, 06:26

I don't think it is a MAM thing, please don't blanket all casuals as all having the same view as a lot of casuals are a damn lot better than some permanent crew! In regards to safety etc, have you ever really watched/listened to some permanent crew do the safety demo or the overwing briefing? A lot of them are terrible and obviously take safety seriously enough to warrant them doing it correctly! As i said, when Adecco were doing the interview some absolutely shocking people came online and unfortunately it is a little hard to get rid of them! I honestly can't believe some of the people i've worked with casual and permanent. I also believe saftey should be taken extremely seriously, ie i was on a Virgin Blue flight once when one of the Flight Attendants got a passenger up to do her safety demo, this is totally unacceptable for so many reasons. Yes, EP's are a serious time all the time, moreso when you're new and you have never heard the info before in your life, therefore you should be concentrating even more, however you do need a laugh every now and then to break up the stress etc of the day.

jb_flyer

28th Apr 2005, 15:15

Anyone get a shortlist email?

I read (elsewhere) that an email had gone to an applicant saying they would be on an (infamous) shortlist for 6 months.

At least they have some closure. I think a call to check my email has been recorded properly is in order, as I have not even got the "progress reports" that others on here have got.

JB

Fingers crossed

GalleyHag

5th May 2005, 02:30

I support jakejet 110%, over the past couple of months the standard of new crew is getting worse and worse and their attitude to serious aspects of the role including EP's never ceases to amaze me.

I recently flew with 2 girls who had never been on an aircraft before joining MAM, needless to say there were a few tears on arrival after passing through a thunderstorm on decent into Sydney. I use to admire my fellow crew for their ability to cope with any situation but when the tears and screams start flowing from crew during turbulence you have to wonder what the hell's going on.

Long term MAM casuals are a totally different breed with more life and work experience and usually a joy to work with Im talking new recruits from the past 10-12 months (and not all by the way just a large majority). I could care less about age but the majority that I have flown with aged 22 and under have no life experience and cant even cope with being away on a 3 day trip. There are mature young adults and immature young adults and sadly QF/MAM has taken quite a few of the latter in recent times.

Another problem is a lot of good people will not accept casual anymore, it does appear we are getting some people who would normally be rejected at the assessment centre purely because they are prepared to accept casual. 2-3 years ago this wasnt the case as Im sure any MAM casual employed 3 years ago would have expected to at least been given the opportunity for permanent employment. NOW people on the outside know there is zero chance of this happening therefore instead of the old attitude of I will take casual as it may lead to permanent has been replaced with bugger that Im not going to be a casual for ever so we get whatever is left and thats people like the above who have never flown in their life.

Furthermore as longer terms casuals are now realising its not impossible but VERY VERY difficult to borrow money for a car or house. The flexabilities of being a casual are gone and replaced with more of a part-time style of work without the benefits and yearly the old tease comes out that maybe just maybe we will employ some of you into permanent jobs and never do. The last MAM casuals converted to permanent was in 2003, over 2 years ago now.

Sadly this is byproduct of the Qantas strategy of no permanent employment and something we just have to accept.

RaverFlaver

5th May 2005, 06:34

In repsonse to GalleyHag - I have flown with older mature/immature crew who have never flown before and been like you have described the younger ones with less life experiecnce to be like. Just because people are older doesn't mean they have more life experience....there are some seriolusly boring people out there who I think have sat around just watching life go by without any experiences.....

Your post is only one side of the coin really. Both sides are exactly the same.

In terms of safety/eps/demos, like oz mentioned, I have seen some shockers from young crew and some shockers from older experienced crew - being that from my last recurrent eps session.

Just wanted to highlight it's not all young crew who have never flown before that are like what you describe, it's across the board.

Have a great night

RaverFlaver :)

GalleyHag

5th May 2005, 07:11

How depressing is the following information from the FAAA Victorian branch www.faaa.net. This is just 2 parts of the newsletter I thought would be relevant to this thread:

5 May 2005

Attention All Victorian Based Long Haul Cabin Crew

Sadly the end of Bid Period 237 will see several of our colleagues on fixed term contracts and secondment leave our ranks. Priority of employment will be offered to these individuals over the next 6 months. However, the Company has categorically stated that there will be no additional employment within Australian Long Haul in the near future. I therefore urge all affected members to submit applications to all areas of flying within the Qantas Group as soon as possible.

Having worked with many of these crew, I can only commend them on their commitment and the contributions they have made during their employment.

The Future of Flying?

The Association is aware of the angst of members regarding the continuing reduction of traditional flying out of Victoria . Qantas CEO Mr Geoff Dixon has made it abundantly clear that the Company, through its Sustainable Futures Program, will seek to achieve maximum cost efficiencies. In doing this, the Qantas Group will restructure its workforce as required, and Long Haul Flight Attendants are not exempt. Management have stated that there will be an alignment of flying to achieve the greatest degree of productivity within the terms of the EBA.

The Association will actively campaign to avoid marginalisation of the Long Haul Division and while many of the changes may be unpalatable, they will be inevitable. We will continue to look to the future with our primary objective being to maintain employment for ALL Australian Based Long Haul Flight Attendants.

chinup

5th May 2005, 09:30

Too funny!

Have not posted for about 6 months. Relocated o/s, done my training, travelling the world, live in a gorgeous villa ( not that I have time to enjoy it ) just LOVE IT. Interesting to see the same rubish printed here ages ago by the samer losers, STILL saying the same old crap. Get a life!

GalleyHag

5th May 2005, 09:57

My old mate Chinup - translation of your post - still living in a caravan out the back of mum and dad's house, took the afternoon off from the fast food restaurant to catch the skybus to tullamarine to watch the planes.

Glad to see not much has changed with you either, I will keep my own life thanks im pretty happy unlike you.

jb_flyer

5th May 2005, 11:10

Thanks but no thanks!

Oh well, the day arrived where I finally got some closure and feedback after 9 long months of waithing after the interviews... the dreaded email...

Fortunatley since the time of the interview I have realised that this is not the be all and end all. Actually with my life leading me out of WA in the near future to the eastern states of Aus and beyond it is fortunate really that I wont be in a MAM role for 6 months then have to resign when I move east.

There are plenty more oppurtunites in the eastern states I know, so I will give it another shot in 6 months when im over there!

Good luck to everyone else!

JB

RollzRoyce

5th May 2005, 11:55

JB

You have waited so long...only to hear this? Dont worry...you deserve alot better anyway. I am sure there will be some permanent positions coming up after 6 months time.

Keep your chin up!

Rollz :ok:

QFRegional

6th May 2005, 00:01

I see you have now been through the QF Brainwash, permanent positions, yeah right, keep dreaming!

Iguanahead

6th May 2005, 00:58

jb_flyer, so sorry to hear that things didn't work out at this time. I'm glad to see you are looking ahead to other opportunities, when one door closes another one opens. There's so many of us on here that are testament to that!

Stay positive and focussed and jump right in to what life throws your way. I know you'll get there in the end. :ok:

Suelle

6th May 2005, 07:26

well everyone i finally have received an inviation for a medical for the fixed term cabin crew position ex Perth. It has been a long wait almost 9 months !!! Everytime I push it out of my mind WHAM they call me......

Let you know how it goes,

Suelle x

jb_flyer

6th May 2005, 13:53

Well done Suelle! Its heartening to know that someone else who went through the same things as me got a good response!

I hope they can offer something more concrete then a shortlist position, lets face it permanancy is a pipe dream, but even casual is better then a shortlisted position followed by a thanks but no thanks at the end!

The only thing (and honestly its the only thing) is that I had a MAM application progressing at the same time as the QF one, and they considered them to be the one and the same. If that had of been the case, I wouldnt have bothered struggling to take the 2 extra days off work for the second interview and second panel interview when they were simply disregarded. Oh well, for first attempt all the practice is needed!

Thanks for your well wishes, hey if I got in first time I would consider myself VERY lucky! Especially after reading all the troubles people on this board have had and the hoops they have jumped through to get the positions!

See you all in the sky! I have some flights coming up... so I will be watching enviously from the departure lounge and in the seats!

JB

OZcabincrew

6th May 2005, 19:04

Suelle!!!

Well done, hopefully will see you online soon! so what is this fixed term position they're talking about? How long is it for? and what will happen at the end of the contract? your guess is probably as good as ours!

Oz

SkySista

7th May 2005, 05:21

Sorry to hear it wasn't your lucky day, jb. Know you've been wanting this for ages.

I had the opportunity to meet up with Craic at the EK Open Day today, she's in a similar position, tried with EK so many times, can't get an interview with DJ (wish I could give her my place!)

It'll be your day soon JB. I hear NJS are looking/will be looking again soon.

Congrats Suelle, how long is your contract?

Sky

Suelle

11th May 2005, 09:00

hi,

well I went and did the medical yesterday, gosh its really in depth !! I was in their for almost 2 hours...... the position is a fixed term 11 month contract. Originally when I was first interviewed they said it was a long haul position, but with all the restructuring Qantas has done, I guess it may be short haul. They are letting me know within two weeks - three weeks of the outcome.
I think I will keep my current job if I get the cabin crew position and do both. My position where I am at now will allow me to do casual hours.

suelle

xox

OZcabincrew

11th May 2005, 10:51

It will be interesting.

Especially how that will affect the current PER casuals. PER already has SYD/MEL casuals doing PER flying which has seen a drop in PER casuals' hours, if they employ a group of people in PER short haul on full time rosters for 11 months, i wonder how that will affect casuals' hours? Time will tell.

Oz

QFRegional

11th May 2005, 10:58

Ozcabincrew

If the shoe was on the other foot and you were being offered fixed term or full-time flying out of Sydney/Melbourne like MAM's are currently getting (for a limited time) out of Perth from the east I highly doubt you would care less how this would effect other MAM casuals.

I know there is another thread in regard to this very topic but a casual is a casual you shouldnt expect anything more or anything less.

OZcabincrew

11th May 2005, 11:13

QFRegional

i'm not having a go at the people who have come over because of course, if something is going to benefit you, you are going to do it. I am however having a go at QF for stuffing PER casuals and casuals in other bases for that matter around. There are casuals in Perth more than willing to take a roster for the month, but instead QF decide to bring people over from interstate and accommodate them for the month and give them the roster aswell. Because of this situation, PER casuals HAVE been disadvantaged, something that supposedly wasn't supposed to have happened in the first place. It was even brought up to management who agreed it was a big stuff up from the start.

I understand completely what the meaning of casual is, as i am sure every other casual is aswell, but thanks anyway :suspect: . I understand no guaranteed hours etc blah blah blah, but there is no point ruining a system that was working and making it harder for people when there was no need.

Oz

QFRegional

12th May 2005, 00:44

QF can and does whatever it likes, you are employed by MAM and if MAM via QF choose to give other casual employees opportunities like a temp basing in Perth that is their choice. The system that you speak of is clearly defined you are a casual on-call to be used when and if the company choose to use you no more no less.

Suelle

12th May 2005, 04:51

Well it is all very political isnt it. When i first applied for the position it said it was as a fixed term 11month contract long haul cabin crew. Then when i had my panel interview, it was said that there were no positions avaiable for long haul but a short list was being made and in the mean time they did pose the question would i be interested in doing MAM casual short haul. of course I said yes.

Since then all of my phone calls, letters and emails have referred to the position as fixed term 11 month contract with no stipulation short or long haul, so whether they are intorducing more long haul or short haul im not in the know but it is so confusing for a newcomer like me.

jesski

13th May 2005, 00:07

Well i got an email today inviting me to attend a medical. It then went on to say that after the medical i'd be contacted again within 4 weeks, i'm sure ive heard that once or twice in the last 18 months!? hahaha looks like im in for more waiting, but im not complaining, im just glad to get some contact from them!!!

:) jess

jesski

14th May 2005, 00:22

suelle-
what did u wear to your medical? i guess just everyday clothes hey? dont have to sorta 'dress up?'

Suelle

14th May 2005, 08:42

The medical is done at a doctors surgery, so i wore casual clothes. They do a through check of you, so comfy clothes is best i guess. well it was me anyway.

suelle

EAAFA

16th May 2005, 03:17

I hope this note will help any applicants for cabin crew positions.

The interviews in which I excelled (and got the job), were the ones in which I was level headed, friendly and calm. My failed attempts were the ones in which I tried too hard (and probably came across as desperate).

Oh, and ignore anyone who tells you to smile a lot during the interview. Smiling for no apparent reason makes people look silly at best and deranged at worst. You're supposed to create the impression that you will be able to take care of people's safety, comfort, etc.

:ok:

jesski

17th May 2005, 22:59

Thanks for the encouraging words Marsha. glad to hear u loved it, and sorry to hear u weren't made permanent!
Best of luck for the future!
Jesski xo

TightSlot

24th May 2005, 08:28

This thread exists to enable responsible discussion of the various IR issues currently affecting Qantas, including the establishment of the LHR base. New threads started elsewhere and relating to these issues will be merged into this one.

Comments posted here must be relevant and factual. Abuse of others will result in a threadban initially, and then a forum ban. Private individuals must not be named.

Over to you...

jettlager

24th May 2005, 09:01

Rumour has it that CC will be moving with the Techies back to the Millenium Gloucester Hotel.

Jettlager

qfcsm

24th May 2005, 09:55

Not a rumour any more... now fact!
Not that too many Aussie based crew will ever see it.

.

captainrats

24th May 2005, 10:30

Background
This relates to Longhaul Cabin Crew and can viewed by looking at two distinct periods:Before October 1988 and after October 1988.
Before October 1988.
Rosters were 56 days in length and were allocated.After 3 years of service you were entitled to a "request trip"which you were guaranteed of receiving.Onboard there was a Flight Service Director.A Chief (who ran P/C)He was assisted by a P/C FA and the food was prepared by a dedicated "Air Chef".Air Craft were generally configured 16/16/401(P/J/C). J/C and Y/C were run by Senior flight Attendants.They were responsible for Selling Duty Free and completing bar orders and any Customs Documentation.
Everyone was paid the same ,irrespective of the hours worked.Supervisory crew were paid a higher duties component and the Air Chef received a skills loading
If you were married you could request to be on the so called"married roster"ie. fly with your partner.If you needed to be home fairly regularly(not do long trips)you could apply for short division flying:nothing longer than four days.
Allowances weren`t worth much as the $A was managed not floating.Most of us spent most of our wages before we got home through a cheque encashment facility QF had arranged with slip port hotels.Allowances were not adequate to live on while in slips.Most of us had second jobs where we earnt more than we were paid at QF.Standown time was 75% of the lenght of the trip just completed.ie a 12 day trip had 9 days of standown.
Whatever happened on an aircraft or while you were away stayed there.No bringing it back into the office.
Since the sixties QF had developed a reputation for having friendly efficient service with a touch of Australian larrikinism thrown in.Lots of fun was had on board and the pax benefitted from seeing happy smiling crew faces.
There were two unions:a so called "boys union" and a "girls union".Prior to around `85 there was generally one girl onboard.She worked in P/C and handed out landing documents.
Things began to change around 1985.More females were employed and the Australian dollar was floated.Allowances became worth something.
After 1988.
Through a deal done with the Girls Union a bid system and a new set of work rules were introduced.Suddenly you could fly where you wanted to if you had the seniority,allowances were worth something and you were paid an hourly rate.For this you relinquished 25% of your standown time.Small subgroups began to develop.There were those who only went to the states.The "yen men" began.The downside was that new crew generally flew with new crew.The experience and knowledge was not passed on.Inconsistencies in service began to creep in.Resentment between senior and junior crew started.
Next step was QF merging with TAA(Rebadged Australian Airlines)New problems of differing crew cultures and merging of seniority occurred.It was not a generally happy marriage..Further resentment.
Next was the horseshoe..a crew member was removed in Y/C.Qantas was now privatised..costs and profit were now important.Next was a restructure of crew complements.Chiefs were removed.Next senior Flight Attendants were renamed supervisors and then eventually two were removed.The FSD became the Customer Service Manager.Another crew member was removed and the Air Chef position was abolished.
From an Association point of view you had QF longhaul,Ansett Shorthaul and Australian Shorthaul thrown in together.Not a happy mix.Both shorthauls had the numbers and pushed their own agendas.Ansett flight attendants were making decisions that were affecting QF longhaul crew.
Unfortunately Ansett failed and in steps Virgin to fill the void.Competition breaks out.The cosy domestic duopoly is finished.Low Cost Carriers were in abundance in Europe and the States.The time was ripe for further change.
It was about this time that things began to turn nasty between QF management and its employees(particularly Longhaul Crew).Consultation disappeared.Threats were made.Sars and the Gulf War intruded.The Company asked for some leeway.It was given in the form of a wage freeze and a shortened EBA.A couple of clauses regarding off shore bases were inserted.Promises of consultation were issued by QF management.
No consultation.Employees find out about the LHR bases through tthe media.Betrayal.
In order to further reduce costs the quality and quantity of food is reduced.Qantas begins outsourcing.Aircraft stores are distributed around the world by DANZAS using ocean going transport.Shortages become chronic.The IFE(in flight entertainment System) is introduced..A disaster.Maintenace and engineering have their cost base reduced.Aircraft breakdown more often or leave with toilets not working,ovens not working,coffee makers INOP,lights and sound systems malfunction regularly.Apology Airlines is born.Crew are now apologizing more than ever to now irate passengers.Crew write reports..these are largley ignored.Frustration becomes endemic.Crew can no longer do their job well and must apologize for shortcomings caused by others.Frustration and Anger=disengagement.
This is a brief history of the current circumstances.The chronology may be a little off but the rest is fairly accurate.
I hope this gives a clearer understandoing of why QF CC are so upset.Too much change poorly managed through a lack of communication and consultation.
Crew who want to do their job well and being denied the resources and the avenue to remedy the shortcomings.
This is why I left..I was prevented from doing my job well.Prevented by my employer who insisted I do my job better with less or no resources.As the frustration increased retirement beckoned.
I understand the anger ,the frustration and venom that circulates in these threads.
Qantas is no longer a happy place and no one seems to care but the employees.It is no longer a good airline.There are those who will argue that it is no longer even a good business.

jettlager

24th May 2005, 10:45

By gee I think you nailed it captainrats.

flugenluft

24th May 2005, 10:54

Another user asked the following question in another forum but as usual the unionists played the man and not the ball so no response was forthcoming. I too would be interested to hear the answer.

The use of airport hotels by crews on mimimum slip is a common practise world wide. Why is this an issue at QF? Can someone explain?

Any takers?

jettlager

24th May 2005, 10:58

Ah...................

The CC and tech crew will BOTH be moving into the Millenium Gloucester.
Sorry.

Jettlager

lowerlobe

24th May 2005, 11:02

You could not have hit the nail on the head any closer..

argusmoon

24th May 2005, 11:04

If you are SYD Based Crew you are a long way from home in LHR.Airports generally have nothing around them.No retail shops(except duty free) no supermarkets,no gyms or bookstores.Nothing to do.Boredom even for 38 hrs.London is not Heathrow Airport.A tragedy in Architecture and design if ever there was one.
The issue is fairly self explanatory.
As jettlager says..it aint happening anyway.

Jet_Black_Monaro

24th May 2005, 11:23

The QF specific history certainly gives some balance and further understanding to the issue but it is only representative of how business operates generally in the modern world. Do you honestly think we would have tolerated queueing in a bank for 20 minutes only to be charged for the pleasure in the early 80's. Hell No.

Things change, things move on, nothing stays the same. What is at the heart of my position is that as much as we want things to stay the same, they never do. You can either move with it or be swamped by it, or leave.... not that many would actually do that.

But stop it? You haven't got a chance.

qfcsm

24th May 2005, 11:29

flugenluft:
And another reason is to do with suitable rest.
Airport hotels generally have lots of aircraft noise.

captainrats:
I think your post should appear as the starter for every QF post so outsiders can have an understanding of the demise and why some of us are so passionately opposed to what's happening.

I think most crew would accept some degree of change and rationalisation to keep our beloved QF profitable and safe.
But this is down right cannibalism for the sake of an executive bonus...... :)

And for the unsure: the use of cannibalism in this context refers to the eating of the flesh of the bones while it is still moving... :eek:

.

I decree a black ban on Jet_Black_Moron.
Do not answer the posts.
Clearly the intent is to inflame and the best remedy is silence.

Jet_Black_Monaro

24th May 2005, 11:37

What exactly is the issue with my post?

Your issue is that I diagree with you, wholeheartedly!

surfside6

24th May 2005, 11:39

No one denies that change needs to occur.It is how it is managed and communicated.In Qantas it is poorly on both counts.Hence the anger and frustration.Throw in the hypocrisy regarding management wage increases while asking the troops to tighten their belts.Illustrates a total lack of both principles and morality and absolutely nothing to do with change.

lowerlobe

24th May 2005, 22:55

The part of the London slip that annoys me is that during last years EBA talks ,QF said that they were prepared to allocate one LHR trip per calender day to Syd based crews.

This was ostensibly to visit family/friends and/or enjoy the UK.Now the reduced slip in LHR to one night makes a mockery of this and any other statement that management makes!

I can understand QF wanting to save money if they were in financial trouble but the current situation is the exact opposite.

I would also like to hear what conditions the managers are having to put up with while we are expected to endur cut after cut.

Thye last point is that these cuts have nothing to do with return to shareholder but mainly for bonuses for certain people

QFboi_MEL

24th May 2005, 23:02

JBM - As F/A for Virgin what would you know about conditions etc. at Qantas. As many people have said previously, Qantas is a great company to work for, however due to the current QF Mismanagement our conditions are going down the loo. I'm pretty sure if you spent a day online a QF you wouldn't be saying what you say.

Personally I think these one day slips in LHR is the absoloute stinks. I am on airport standby 2moro, is there anyone else on s'by 2moro? as i am absoloutly sure that i will be stuck at the airport for 6 hours and not getting assigned to a flight or nothing at all till at least my 5th hour, what does everyone do on the airport s'by's?

Jet_Black_Monaro

25th May 2005, 01:34

I know all about your pay scales and conditions of employment because EBA's are a public document available for all to see (wagenet.gov.au).

I also am quite confident that it is mostly a highly vocal left wing minority that post here who are not representative of the majority view. The EBA being voted up last year is the majority view, that's why it was overwhelmingly voted up. One assumes that you are being rostered as per the EBA, therefore you need to convince this majority that the EBA needs to change if you are not happy with your rosters/ slips / slip times etc.

My previous post about how things have changed nationwide is an acknowledgement of how things are changing for you guys, perhaps more than other employee groups. It could be said though that your group has the most change to be had therefore are experiencing the most change! Compare your pay and conditions with that of other crew doing exactly the same job as other LH crew around the world, even dare I say, AO crew.

As for black banning my posts, go right ahead. There is rarely a sensible counter argument from that rabble so they always just attack the writer. Makes me feel confident that what I write is close to the truth.

surfside6

25th May 2005, 04:35

These assertions and assumptions add nothing to the debate and are merely meant to enflame.
JBM is a Virgin flight attendant with way too much time on his hands.The face paint has obviously run out.
Regarding change I suggest you read Captainrats post.The changes have been going on for nearly 20 years.The conditions have been steadily eroded over that time.

flugenluft

25th May 2005, 06:59

Thanks for the link to wagenet. I did some comparison of my own between the various cc eba's in Oz. If others here did the same they might see why their management is giving them a hard time. The productivity & wage differential between QF longhaul and all the others is huge. Sounds like they are fighting a losing battle to me.
Try ignoring them JBM, playing the man and not the ball when they are losing is an old union tactic, and all footballers know you will never win the game that way.

jettlager

25th May 2005, 10:21

flugenluft,

how many of the Australian FA groups who's pay you are comparing with longhaul crew routinely operate 13+ hour tours of duty?

How many operate through multiple time zones?

How many operate a 3 class full service product?

How many operate multiple A/C types?

How many spend 7+ months of the year away from home/family fullfilling their employment obligations?

How many spend most if not all of the time they do have at home battling with the effects of jetlag and sleep deprivation?

Oh by the way. I'm not complaining about ANY of the above . Just wishing to point out the UNIQUE circumstances relating to my employment.

I wonder if the fact that we DO earn more than other FA groups in Australia may have something to do with some/all of the above?

We await your learned and "balanced" views.

Jettlager :ok:

Pro Golfer 69

25th May 2005, 11:52

I'm not at the least worried about AO. QF has a dozen A380's on the way and AO certainly won't be flying them. If anyone should be worried about AO it's Virgin, as they team up with Jetstar and put the squeeze on Big Dick's cost base. Soon you'll be loading the bags and scrubbing those dunnies for you're 30k a year. I hear you're a great toilet scrubber too JBM. Keep up the good work:ok:

lowerlobe

25th May 2005, 11:52

JBM,
Well,it seems as though you are not honest enough to tell us which airline you work for and what base!

If you are with Virgin Blue ,I think you'll find out soon enough what it is like to have your conditions cut as your new boss looks at ways to lower his operating costs.

Let's see if you think it's fun to be more efficient as they try to match Jet Star and then you will finally find out what we have been talking about all this time

GalleyHag

25th May 2005, 12:01

Oh is that a 2 year old that needs his face painted, oh it is, JBM that call bell is for you, its not included in any Qantas EBA just yet, so best you run along and do what you do best and up-sell and paint to your hearts content!

west coast girl

25th May 2005, 14:37

captain rats says
"A couple of clauses regarding off shore bases were inserted...."
what the hell were the union thinking? -who exactly was running the show when these were allowed to get up and who was overseeing the FAAA when the BKK & AKL bases were announced ???????-this is when the strike action should have taken place - this is when the media should have been alerted -where were all the cabin crew warriors then?
senior crew tell me that they believed Aust based crew would go onto these bases - as is the case with the new LHR base.
the horse had well & truly bolted by the time the LHR base was announced by dixon.
those that are bleating & whingeing most about the LHR base now - where exactly were you when the first Thais were employed? now they have taken your FRA flying -are any of you going in to see your team mangaers and saying , "Hey this is immoral, this in unAustralian?"
with no cap on the AO EBA its all over anyway.
its not all management duplicity.
we signed our own death warrant in our last few EBAs -the devil was always in the small print and we all missed it.

eyeonthesky

25th May 2005, 15:01

Well obviously everything at QANTAS is OK ...

I posted here on 19 May asking for GENUINE input for an ABC radio program I am producing, looking at the airline, staff concerns, issues, problems... etc...etc (read post "media request")

No replies of note - even after I gave my name, contact details etc...

QANTAS management is willing to give me its side of the story ... so what's wrong with you guys ... ???

Are you just here for a bitch/whinge session for the sake of it ? or are you really interested in changing the problems you say exist ???

eye

west coast girl

25th May 2005, 20:26

the faaa needs to start a long term campaign highlighting to the Australian public the loss of Australian jobs overseas by the employment of foreign nationals.
It will need to engage a professional PR company & ad agency. Its going to cost a lot of money -(sell the mascot office?)-but with the signing of the AO EBA with unlimited bases - this is a fight to the death. a good use of members money. they can't wait till the next EBA discussions start. it needs to happen now. the only way to make geoff and the board take notice is to de- base the Qantas brand by continually drawing attention to the fact that Qantas /Australian Airlines can no longer be regarded as an Australian company because...25% -50% of its cabin crew are now employed overseas this will make the Australian public very angry.
this message was not conveyed effectively with the set up of the LHR base because nearly 200 Australian crew were just being relocated -this is a normal occurance in any big company and the media could not find an "angle" so dropped the story.
but the BBK & AKL bases are a direct attack on Australian jobs and Joe Public will quickly see this.
geoff dixon's background is marketing - he bought the copyright to "I still Call Austalia Home" and is sensitive to the issue of losing the balance where Qantas can no longer trade on its nationalistic image.
this has to be a couple of years sustained highlighting of the off shoring of Australian jobs - billboards at Mascot -"play spot the Aussie F/A on a Qantas flight today"....newspaper ads - "spot the Aussie..." talk back radio....
the way management used the AKL crew as blackmail to get the JFK dispensation will happen again & again .
this campaign can be done perfectly legally without defaming Qantas -just state the facts
185? jobs gone to BKK
150? to the kiwis
now
170 to the Poms
where next?
as I said this will cost money & take time - but just watch the board sit up, take notice and start asking marg & geoff some very uncomfortable questions.
what do you reckon??

lowerlobe

25th May 2005, 21:11

WCG,
I couldn't agree more!
Last year I flew with a faaa csm and suggested that we embark on a publicity campaign about the loss of Australian jobs and the hidden clauses in the LHR base .
He told me that the faaa was more than capable of beating QF on this issue.
Again I suggested the same tactic regarding the threat of being replaced by AKL crew if we did not give dispensation for operating LAX/JFK/LAX but was told that I did not know how it works!
I am now beginning to wonder who's side the faaa is really on!
The real threat might not just be QF management but the faaa as well

eyeonethesky,

If you really are a journalist why did you not approach the faaa(I have my doubts about them but that is another story) or crew as they come out of customs.I\'m sure you would not have any trouble finding a story.

cartexchange

25th May 2005, 22:55

WCG
for once I agree 100% with you, you're right in what you state.
The Billboard idea is a good one.
We should also let the Australian public know that if you are a young Australian you must relocate to AKL to get a job with an Aussie airline. I know this really stuns people when they are told.
I must admit that the FAAA have been a huge disappointment, but then I don't know what really goes on in there, they do have an uphill battle to remove or revoke the failings of the previous decisions made by those 3 JB,GB,TW.
If we want to get upset, those 3 are the ones to vent our anger on!

I still cannot fathom why the FAAA gave dispensation to the JFK shuttle, and look at how QF management rewarded us. they removed 2 days from the LHR pattern,they took one day off from the FRA slip,they placed all Y/C crew on the AKL/LAX flights, they placed AKL crew on the SYD/LAX directs, they then placed them on HNL and PVG and BOM (they can have that one). AND WE GAVE THEM DISPENSATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:confused:

lowerlobe

25th May 2005, 23:00

How about a story of the current management MO in Australia of sending jobs offshore.Where does it stop,we will have checkout girls at supermarkets on 11 month contracts from Asia and bank tellers from somwehere else and Taxi drivers and doctors from the sub continent... journalists from who knows..Everyone in Australia will be on the dole..except for those lucky enough to be on a board of some company

lowerlobe

26th May 2005, 00:37

You have to ask why the faaa is rolling over very nicely for the company,the management have certaainly trained the faaa very well.
1: Why on earth did the faaa give dispensation for the JFK issue

2:Why did they not retract that dispensation when the slip in LHR was reduced and SIN at the end of a FRA trip.

3: Why is the faaa so unwilling to have a media campaign about the loss of Australian jobs.

4:Why did the faaa give a story on page 3 of a sunday paper about stockings and shirts...let's focus on the real issue

5:Why did the faaa recommend to AO crew that they accept a limitless cap after seeing what is happening to QF Longhaul

6: Why did someone on the current faaa leadership sign off on the BKK and AKL bases when they were first announced.

7: Why are we paying union fees when apparently we can do nothing..

tow-truck

26th May 2005, 01:52

the FAAA have just released a news letter.
Here we go again, long on words etc, but what does it say.
I read it as "we had to do it, more to come, stay tunned"

Intersted to see what you think WCG as you seem to have a real passion about our beloved FAAA. heh heh eh

OCCR

26th May 2005, 07:29

Here is a slap in the face for all those Kiwi crew.
Just had a look at the FRA trips and as you all know the BKK crew now operate them, but what is different is that the BKK crew have 64 hours in FRA and stay with the crew, the AKL crew always had 40 hours, not only that but all the BKK crew patterns start in SYD with 55 hour slip,, I thought they were employed as a cost saving measure!

lowerlobe

26th May 2005, 07:41

QF is probably getting ready to use the Kiwi's on the JFK run if we withdraw our dispensation!

Does anyone know how many AKLand BKK crew there are?

lowerlobe

26th May 2005, 09:09

WCG,
A great idea,then the tv and papers would pick up on it and we would have the company reacting to us instead of the opposite..

The only trouble is getting the faaa to listen to us...

Nihao

26th May 2005, 09:48

Hi

Just had a look at the FRA trips and as you all know the BKK crew now operate them

Sorry to side-track a bit here but does this mean Qantas German language speakers no longer fly to Germany? Are these flights without language speakers? I thought having a language speaker on these sort of flights was considered very important by Qantas.:uhoh:

Cheers

jettlager

26th May 2005, 10:03

Ah..................

Language requirements are NOT requirements when management performance bonuses are at stake.

This is clearly illustrated by qf's decision to have shorthaul operate to Hong Kong, Shanghai, Manila.

No language skills on those flights much to the consternation of local airport managers.

Jettlager

RaverFlaver

26th May 2005, 11:35

I don't think the below are the thought's you would want to be promoting to the public.....your campaign seems a little misguided and racially aggrivated.

"If I had wanted to be served by a kiwi - I would have flown Air New Zealand!"

"If I'm going to be served by a Thai cabin crew I may as well save the money and fly Thai Airways . They're cheaper and at least I know what I'm paying for!"

Maybe your campaign should be more directed to QF managment. The above sound slightly intolerable.

Look onboard any other airline and you will find multi cultural crew. It's not as though the entire crews on QF are foreingers.

RaverFlaver :)

OZcabincrew

26th May 2005, 11:38

I met a girl the other day who flies for JAL based out of London and doesn't even speak Japanese!!!!!!

Oz

cartexchange

26th May 2005, 12:14

I think what OCCR meant was that the 4 AKL crew have been replaced by 4 BKK crew, the rest are all SYD based.

Im posting this info for those NON QF people.

However he/she makes a good point though, how come the difference in the pattern make up, the AKL crew really got screwed on that one.

Both are cheap labour,so why the difference! hmmmm makes you wonder.

west coast girl

26th May 2005, 19:06

I'm not trying to play the race card here ala John Howard. just trying to alert the Australian public as to what is actually going on inside one of its greatest ICON companies.
Manangement is extremely sensitive to anything that may detract from the Qantas brand. in their public affairs dept. they employ 10 full time journalists & public relations specialists to cover all contingencies.
the use of AKL based crew to blackmail the faaa to do the arduous LAX-JFK -LAX sector and the 'pre-condition' clause in the AO EBA clearly signal the ruthless business direction they are going to take in the future.
How can you have a 'pre--condition' in an EBA -where B stands for bargaining???...what is a pre-condition??
this is the angle that the faaa -or somebody who cares - has to take to the media.
how can you call a company" Australian Airlines "when you have indicated witha pre -condition allowing you to have no limit /cap on the number of crew engaged overseas that you intend to have minimal Australians on those flights( including perhaps tech crew....) any suburban lawyer will tell you that borders on false advertising and marketing and Joe Public needs to be alerted to this fact.
Australian shareholders do have morals even if senior management doesn't and they may just vote with their share options and what company they put their money into.
but they have to know and the union has to effectively use the media to convey this message for the next few years leading up to the next EBA negotiations.
The aim: to close the BKK & AJKL bases on moral & ethical grounds.ie they 're stealing Australian jobs. a simple fact and a simple message.

the campaign can be humorous without be racist.
"Why spend all those hard earned dollars flying to Thailand when you can have it all from a Qanats cabin Crew?"
Qantas are using New Zealand cabin crew on their flights, so make sure you only pay the fare in New Zealand dollars. That's what the company is paying the salariesi n!"
it has to be a sustainable campaign over time
the media angle is there with no cap to the AO EBA.
faaa should send out SOS to members who have media contacts and maybe secure long term mate rates.
its do able - and the only way to go,
management will notice and become very concerned about its public perception & possible damage to the brand.
all very legal - but more so - all very ethical...even Qantas management know they are selling jobs off shore forever, and just sometimes, even they have to sleep straight at night too.

lowerlobe

26th May 2005, 20:56

About the Kiwi's being replaced by the Thai's,I suggested that the company is getting ready for any problem with the JFK dispensation.
I don't know how accurate this is but at the very least QF would need over 100 AKL based crew just for the JFK run.

Do they have that many crew in AKL spare from their other flights?

Also where would they get the CSM's and CSS's from?

What is the maximum hours an AKL based crew can do?

as far as the overseas crew campaign is concerned,QF spends a lot of money(I have heard that the latest ads cost around 8 million in a 12 month period)
To do this telling everyone that we are the spirit of Australia and then give jobs to overseas workers instead of Australian and then play I still call Austarlia home is a bit hypocritical don\'t you think.That is part of the message I think we could portray

again sorry about my typing,I\'m like those immigration people you see,one finger typing ..sorry

OZ Cabin Crew

I think someone was having a lend of you.
Having done years of flights to Japan I know how the Japanese mentality is with their language and culture.
I find it hard to believe that JAL would hire anyone that does not speak Japanese.

keeperboy

26th May 2005, 22:30

JAL has bases in LHR and FRA. The LHR based crews also position all over europe to operate from european cities to Tokyo and Osaka. There are typically two to four LHR based crew on each flight.

I guess the difference between the LHR JL crews and QF crews is that JAL does not have the base as a cost saving measure. The LHR based crews are on-board for their (english/french/german) language skills as the japanese crews speak very basic english. They are also there to interact with the european passengers on JAL flights. The same as BA with our NRT based crew. Not to save money but just for the language/culture issue.

jettlager

26th May 2005, 22:49

Ah....................

Airlines making decisions based on criteria other than cost saving??????????

What a novel approach.

Jettlager

Mr Seatback 2

27th May 2005, 00:40

It's the same with ANA in Japan too. Nothing to do with cost savings, everything to do with 'service' for their European clients.

Part of the training for JAL and ANA for LHR/FRA based crews includes Japanese language training. Overseas based crews are required to be able to speak English and another European language (French or German usually) as part of the entry requirements. The company takes care of the Japanese language training requirements.

For the record, United Airlines and American Airlines also have (or maybe HAD now) overseas bases in LHR. Whilst these are cost saving measures also, the cost savings are derived from reduced hotel and allowance requirements in London only. Their employment contract, as I understand, mirrors that of their US counterparts (so there isn't as much of a gulf between the crew on board). In short, everyone works and gets paid to the same standard.

United (despite all of its' problems of late) had overseas bases all around the world (predominantly in foreign countries where English isn't the primary language). It has historically offered its' crew the ability to transfer to these new bases as part of a lifestyle benefit - with no detriment to the FA.

Perhaps QF could learn from this? ROFL! :}

Jet_Black_Monaro

27th May 2005, 05:54

Everybody is on about cheap labour.

What about considering the suggestion that the Australian crew have priced themselves out of a job.

No one here seems prepared to acknowledge that reality. You just don't and never will get it until you are all out on your arses trying to find a job in the real world.

:*

GalleyHag

27th May 2005, 06:05

Well why dont you tell us what you think is the market value of a flight attendant employed with Qantas?

AO crew are 30% cheaper than QF long haul but that now appears to be to expensive with AO planning to source off-shore crew.

Jet* are cheaper than QF short haul but that now appears to be to expensive with Jet* planning to source labour from NZ for their Tasman services.

Jet_Black_Monaro

27th May 2005, 06:19

The market decides what any job is worth. There are LARGE amounts of people out there who are prepared to do it for considerably less money than the incumbents are prepared to, so that is what the job is worth. That is why they are doing all the flying and the incumbents are being stood aside.

I know it sucks, but that is free market economics at work.

GalleyHag

27th May 2005, 06:31

Oh please if it were up to the hundreds of wannbe's like yourself JBM Qantas would be crewed by 18 year olds on $19K salary packages.

Be more specific, what is the current market rate for a Qantas flight attendant?

If you want to make a constructive contribution to this thread, tell us, if you were being offered a position with Qantas what price would you put on your head knowing all the facts about the aircraft types, flying involved, product offering etc. I am really interested to know what you think the market value is.

Mr Seatback 2

27th May 2005, 06:49

Using your analogy then JBM, why doesn't Virgin Blue replace your flying with Pacific Blue crew?

They're cheaper - and less of them onboard. Or am I forecasting the future with Corrigan at the helm?

Jet_Black_Monaro

27th May 2005, 06:58

I say again, there are LARGE amounts of people prepared to do your job now for less. They are even prepared to relocate to another country to do it. They are prepared to leave their friends and country to do exactly the same job as you for less because to them it is a good deal. Doesn't that ring a bell in anybody's head? Hmmm, is that coffee I smell?

Compare that with the attitude of some incumbent QF LH crew that post on here.

lowerlobe

27th May 2005, 07:46

Thankyou Professor of economics at VirginBlue University JBM for your valuable insight into economics and description of market forces!

So using your definition you are being over paid at VirginBlue(as your new boss will undoubtedly be telling you shortly)

there is unfortunately one basic flaw in your argument,QF has made last financial year a record profit and by all accounts will do so even more this year

So what is the urgency for continually dropping employees conditions.Of course the answer is for continueing bonuses for the board,except for VirginBlue which has had a dramatic drop in profit over the last 12 months

If QF was in trouble then I would agree with cost cutting but these are not to compete with VirginBlue or anyone else really it is just give Darth Dixon and his mates bonuses not return to the shareholder

So instead of your incredible definition of market forces it is more about corporate greed .With Gordon Gecko leading us ,it will be the tech crew next to be hammered,then basically everone else except of course the board.

gigs

27th May 2005, 11:13

if anyone reads my poor typing youll recall im a mam casual who knows nz long haul/for qf/ virgin csm and fas also has been offered fa posit. with virgin. jbm mam, jet connect all earn more than virgin and by sense of comparison to the few virgin crew i work with are happier. you could debate that our existance denudes working conditions for main line but,thats in the long term a debate. this casual bs hasnt worked in other countries/us/ .but a debate of this nature seems out of your league. to sum up a girl told me months ago after joining mam from virgin that high hours at mam are a walk in the park compared to virgin fa position. so what is your motive what are you trying to say???????and pls dont expect me to respond to nonsense...

Jet_Black_Monaro

27th May 2005, 11:32

The last EBA vote from your colleagues was YES!

Overwhelmingly, YES, I agree!

:{

lowerlobe

27th May 2005, 23:01

Qantas spares no expense to remind the world that it still calls Australia home

Qantas is in the final stages of shooting Australia's most expensive television commercial, with a production budget of more than $10 million topping the entire cost of making hit Australian feature-length films such as The Castle, Lantana and The Dish.

The airline has already flown dozens of members of the Australian Girls Choir and the National Boys Choir to exotic and iconic locations in Greece, Japan, France, New Zealand and the United States in what the film industry says is an all-singing cinematic blockbuster. Every Australian state will also feature in the commercial.

The production is so big the airline's chief executive, Geoff Dixon, is "a bit nervous", while John Singleton, whose agency is making the ad, says he is "terrified". "It's the biggest production I've been involved in," Mr Singleton said. "It's absolutely terrifying. It's costing about the same as two or three feature-length movies. It better be good or we're sacked."

Qantas would not comment on the campaign details, production budget or when it would be seen on Australian TV screens but claimed it would be "one of the world's greatest commercials".

"It's a very ambitious shoot," a Qantas spokesperson said. "I can't comment on what the budget will be but clearly it will be a significant investment. We believe it will be one of the world's greatest commercials."

There are suggestions Australians may have to wait for a peek at the new campaign until August, when the airline could launch it during the Athens Olympic Games.

Peter Allen's I Still Call Australia Home will remain as the jingle, along with the two children's choirs, an idea hatched by Qantas chief Mr Dixon after a phone call to his advertising mate, Mr Singleton.

Qantas has been taking only 20 children at a time on overseas shoots and rostering their involvement - aside from a couple of "hero children" - to ensure minimal disruption to schooling.

"It's a logistical bloody nightmare," Mr Singleton said. "The kids have got tutors and minders and all the other things that go with it. It's also bloody exciting."

Apparently it is ok to appeal to Australians loyalty to part with their savings to fly QF but employing Australians is going too far

str

28th May 2005, 07:17

Sounds like the ideal time for the FAAA to run a counter offensive billboard campaign as someone else mentioned on pprune.

west coast girl

28th May 2005, 10:40

you are so on the money xchange & str
NOW is the time to do something. not wait for the few months /weeks leading up to the next EBA negotiations.
now the faaa must move and it has to be sustained.
they have to whack their agenda on the table early and the company is put on the defensive.
the goal: the phased in closure of the BKK & AKL bases over the next 2 EBAs-and no more employment of foreign nationals onto the LHR base. THIS IS AN FAAA "PRE CONDITION "CLAUSE!!
NOT NEGOTIABLE NOT FOR BARGAINING.

with no disrespect to the senior management of Qantas cabin sevices -we have a new zealand lady and an english gentleman running the show- part of our Aussie cultural cringe in believing our own aren't good enough
with all honesty these two people may have no affinity or empathy with the issue of keeping Australian jobs in Australian hands. They have targets to reach, bottom lines to achieve, bonuses to be had.
AS the Sustainable Futures targets become more unrealistic and UNACHIEVABLE, management is looking to the very unimaginative area of salaries and wages to reduce costs. Instead of growing the business and generating profits , they cannabilise the workforce.
On their retirement they may look back with a wry smile and say they helped a lot of their fellow kiwis and poms get work - but at the expense of young Australians. Australia will be an employment waste land if our big companies -namely Qantas -keep exporting jobs to "New Dehli"
The only course of action for the union IS TO SHAME QANTAS INTO STOPPING THIS UNAUSTRALIAN WORK PRACTICE.
Joe Public has to be made aware what is happening inside one of the great Aussie ICON COMPANIES.
Yes, its jingoistic -but you got to play geoff & Singo at their own game.
With the limitless cap pre-condition in the AO EBA the company has clearly signalled that offshoring f/a jobs is a busines strategy of the future. This is perhaps the "angle" the media needs to be fed now. Any increas in base sizes must then be heavily reported to the public.
The mum & dad shareholders need to be made aware of this.
When you call your comany "Australian Airlines", when you buy the copyright to "I Still CAll Australia Home", then you systematically employ all foreign cabin crew at third world salaries - this hypocisy is enough for any Aussie to vomit into their TV Dinner as the ad runs.
The public aren't stupid and they may just get angry enough to act with their share purchases and choice of airline ticket.
Its our only chance for L/H survival as we know it.
This is why the FAAA must employ a serious PR company to implement a public information campaign.
It should be humorous to keep the publics' interest and as we know, Qantas Manangement have no affinity with humour & will not know how to combat it.
Shame Singo is geoff's drinking partner - his company may have got behind a campaign like this...maybe Dick Smith? Maybe we could get some high profile actors to donate their time? (their industry has gone offshore to the States)
Its not about racism - ITS ABOUT NATIONALISTIC FERVOUR.
We can feel for the world's poor, but Qantas does not have to provide a f/a job for them al!!
Somebody get into Dick Smith's ear.
Maybe get some of the writers from th cabin crew review onto this project. Get the public laughing at Qantas' pathetic attempt ot offshore employment.
If you can make Marg and the board a PUBLIC LAUGHING STOCK -YOU WILL SHAME THEM INTO A CHANGE OF BUSINESS COURSE.
"Can you guess where I'm calling from?...The New Dehli Hilton....."
voice over-"Qantas Airlines .....outsourcing Australian jobs to India since 2005".
SHAME THE BRAND AND JUST WATCH THINGS MOVE BACK IN OUR DIRECTION!
iTS LEGAL AND WE HAVE RIGHT ON OUR SIDE!

cabinfever

28th May 2005, 14:39

West coast girl...I love you!!!!

If I were straight I would marry you!!!...anyway...

Finally, we are starting to look at some solutions...instead of fighting between ourselves...i like your ideas..sure they need some professional input, but they are the direction I believe we should go in...The public may not care about our woes but lets see how they react about the ICON they love 2 call AUSTRALIAN

I will be at the union meetings that are supposed to be coming up and I will be making this suggestion

Keep the fires burning...

Cart_tart

28th May 2005, 17:58

WCG - Check your PM's
CT
xx

lowerlobe

28th May 2005, 22:47

Does anyone know if the tech crew have moved back to their old hotel in LHR or is it just a rumour?

If they have moved back , does anyone know what the trade off was between the company and their union was?

Maybe then the faaa could get the idea to negotiate a deal with the company instead of rolling over everytime!

A publicity camapign similar to wcg's could be the answer,make the company answer some questions from the press and let the public , especially those looking for jobs or those parents with kids that one day will be looking for a job understand what QF is doing .

We have to be pro active instead of submissive .

qcc2

29th May 2005, 04:22

one could be sarcastic and suggesdt the techies signed off the LAX hotel in exchange for being back at the millenium in lhr and nyc. techies doing deals behind cabin crew. wouldn,t be the first time.

26 May 2005

Attention All Qantas Long Haul Cabin Crew Members
DIVISIONAL SECRETARY\'S REPORT - STATE OF THE UNION-
It is appropriate that I take this opportunity on the first anniversary of my and my fellow Divisional Officers\' election to comment on the challenges that lay ahead.

The membership resoundingly decided in Branch elections in late 2003, and the Divisional Officers\' election in early 2004 to put the FAAA on a new course. The mandate that you endorsed was for the senior leadership to run the FAAA in a professional and competent manner and to restore the industrial credibility of the FAAA International Division.

We promised to run the union efficiently, to inform you about issues in a comprehensive and factual manner, and above all, to focus on the job security of members . I also indicated to you on behalf of all elected officials that we would always be direct with you and that decisions would be made on the basis of what is best for the long term interests of our membership.

Difficult decisions have been, and will continue to be made, to protect job security irrespective of whether they are popular or not . These decisions will be made after appropriate analysis of issues and on the basis of relevant industrial and legal advice. Naturally, we will communicate such decisions to you with an explanation for their rationale. We will of course, also seek your input on major issues where possible and appropriate.

It needs to be stated that your elected officials are not masochists. We do not make difficult or controversial decisions to anger, upset or annoy our members or because we like to be criticized. We do so for one reason only - because we believe such decisions are in the strategic interests of our members and their long term job security.

The vast majority of you would understand that we are in a very challenging environment. Qantas is pursuing massive cost savings to ensure, from its perspective, ongoing viability and to maintain and increase profit levels. Qantas is initiating policies such as the directed long service leave program, the reduction in slips, the allocation of international flying to other Qantas Group cabin crew, not because it necessarily dislikes long haul flight attendants. They do it because it reduces their costs and because the Board and senior executives are pursuing policies that maximize profits.

The Australian voters have re-elected the Howard Government that is about to implement further “industrial reform” that will not be union friendly. Added to this environment is the fact that other Qantas Group cabin crew, whether they be Australian Airlines, Short Haul or Jetstar, are significantly less costly than Qantas Long Haul crew.

All of this may sound daunting and depressing. Should we all be crying doom and gloom and be resigned to a bleak future? The answer is no! However, there are no easy or magical solutions. What is required is focused, consistent and competent leadership by the FAAA, and a courageous approach to these challenges that will not only ensure that no one from this Division faces redundancy, but also that we collectively confront these challenges in a creative manner that may actually provide the environment for growth in this Division.

I urge you all to participate in thinking about these issues. I also urge you to dismiss the uninformed gossip and rumour that is circulated by individuals who have no idea about the myriad of complex issues that the FAAA has to deal with. These ill informed individuals only manage to mislead and confuse crew and quite often these individuals choose the cowardly option of spreading anonymous information.

It needs to be stated that decisions taken by the senior leadership of the FAAA are done in a systematic and comprehensive manner with the advice of our legally qualified Industrial Officers. It is not done in some unprofessional or haphazard manner. It also needs to be said that it is not possible on every occasion to disclose all information, which the FAAA uses to arrive at decisions, because at times this is sensitive and confidential.

Most Cabin Crew realize that FAAA officials have been elected by the membership to ensure that agreements entered into with Qantas are in the best interests of cabin crew. We too are cabin crew, and we do not, and will not, act in a manner to intentionally damage our collective interests - quite the opposite.

To use the example of the New York dispensation; fundamentally that decision was made to protect our flying. If the dispensation was not given, Qantas would have used NZ based crew. This would mean more LA flying would be withdrawn from Australian based crew and allocated to NZ crew. More importantly, it would also signal to Qantas that the FAAA and Long Haul cabin crew are not serious in protecting our flying. In those circumstances, there are other Qantas Group cabin crew who are considerably cheaper than us who could be utilized to do that flying. The damaging implications to our members\' job security that would result should be obvious to all .

Finally, as the head of the FAAA I will continue to pursue and recommend to my colleagues policies that will enhance job security, not destroy it. I do not apologise for this stance and I believe the majority of crew would support this direction.

I intend on issuing further newsletters shortly addressing key issues. I ask you to take the time to read each of these carefully and to discuss these important issues with your colleagues. The time has arrived to initiate serious and considered debate amongst the membership on complex matters.

Difficult issues must be confronted and addressed by our membership if this Division is going to continue to be relevant and secure.

Written by Michael Mijatov – Secretary International Division

mijatov,s comment:
are significantly less costly than Qantas Long Haul crew.
wasen,t he on the excecutive when they negotiated the AO award. didn.t he know it is going to come back and bite longhaul.
and as for the kiwis, they now take my y/c slots on hnl nrt akl lax runs. so what,s the difference?
really a pathetic excuse for continuing rolling over.

jesski

30th May 2005, 07:09

suelle-
would have been about 4 weeks now? make sure u let us know when u hear anything!!
i still havent done the drug test... $$$ running low haha but ill do that tomorrow and then ive got a wait ahead of me.
jess

"F" module

30th May 2005, 11:54

I think the Sandgropper sheila is onto something.
reading other posts here it looks like Jet Connect NZ is to be used as another off shore base by stealth.
we really have to do something about this.
A suburban lawyer will tell you that if you continue to flog a company called Australian Airlines yet fill it full of foreign cheap Asian labour -sorry but kiwis are our poor relatives that
s why Bondi is full of them - this practice must border on criminal false advertising & marketing .
the public need to be told this .dixon will cringe and maybe stop offshoring the f/a position.
impact the brand -and you'll impact the board and its decisions.
the no cap issue in the AO EBA needs to be broadcast far and wide - the implications for Australian jobs is obvious.
the reason the One Nation phenomena was so strong was because the Australian people feared job losses through unrestricted arrrival of boat people.
Dixon is literally putting f/a jobs onto a boat for them and shipping them off shore to the third world.
Australians will get angry.
Use radio talk back
write letters to the major papers (use your sister's marrried name as its against our employment contract to bag the company in public)
get the billboards leading onto the Harbour Bridge up and running
get finance from the ACTU. This could be a litmus test for corporate Australia -if Qantas gets away with it -all will follow.
eye in the sky -you've got your story sitting right in front of you.
Are you impartial enough to air it?