Qantas; the thread.

[qcc2]

jet connect is going to fly some shark patrols on the airbus. under nz rules they can operate 1f/a to 50 pax. also techies and cabin crew are cheaper then virgin and jetstar. its all the way down hill. bastardisation of the qf brand. also refer to the jetstars eba thread

[Butterfield8]

Have a look at Standing Bids,New Route Codes in the CIS screen.There are 30 new codes, all of them for offshore bases.Everything from HNL ,NRT to FRA go to offshore bases.
The New Longhaul...Akl day trips.

[Pro Golfer 69]

It actually looks better then 238. At least there's no Perth, Cairns or Christchurch returns. Those offshore route codes are just replacing old ones which are now N/A but yea it's nothing to write home about!

[qcc2]

airbus told gd in tikyo that the A380 is a minimum of month delayed. now we can look forward flying the old 767/747-300 a little longer. :{

[friendly fokker]

FAAAs state of the union address - what a joke!

"They dont make decisions in an unprofessional or haphazzard manner! "Yeah right!

I have been informed by a senior official that two of the biggest decisions were conducted by a ring around of the FAAA executive. Yep, no sit down lengthy discussion with all the executive present. No opportunity to take a day or two to consider the facts and the implications. No time available to discuss these decisions with some of the membership they are supposed to represent. Because QF needed a decision ASAP the FAAA jumped.

The issues were 1) the EBA that we found out had been agreed to one morning when we woke up. Overnight those officials who werent in the office on the days prior were phone contacted for their supoort then and there - while they were on the phone. The other great phone around I believe was 2) the dispensation for the JFK shuttle.

I have no reason not to believe this very senior official.
Perhaps when some meetings of the membership are convened then you can ask the question is this how a concensus was arrived at on these two very important issues?

[cartexchange]

Just had a look at the new bid book 239, the JFK/LAX patterns have been sweetened up, the slips in lax have been greatly extended, they all have 46 hours on the way up and then 46, 72 or even 83 hours on the way back.
Where is the supposed huge cost saving on accommodation? pattern WC05 there is a total of 6 days slip in lax(both ways)
Ohhhh QANTAS what are you up to!

[OCCR]

It will only be for the 2 bid periods whilst the "trial" is going.
you watch after that things will change, the cost cutters will get their hands on it.
In the meantime, people will bid for them as the 6 days slip will be great, and the FAAA will say "see nothing to worry about"

[White Pointer]

Especially since everyone is jumping over each other to spend as much time in Misadventure (sorry, Downtown) as possible.

[qcc2]

i agree with occr its a sweetner for the time being. once again the faaa doesn,t see the greater picture behind it.
the only money they save is on the hotel in lax.
and friendly fokker is right the last eba was not done with ALL excecutive,s agreement. as a matter of fact one wasn,t even there, was only told afterwards.

[lowerlobe]

Just a thought.......

QF asks if faaa gives them a permanent dispensation for the JFK slip,they will give us back the 2nd night in LHR.

As usual the faaa will say yes to anything the company asks!!!!

Then QF reduces the slip in SIN on the way home from LHR to one night as they have with the FRA trips and we still have lost JFK....

Vote NO to giving the dispensation for the JFK slip..

["F" module]

hey cabinfever
I too will be at that SYD union meeting and I will forcefully be directing the membership to get the FAAA executive to engage a PR company to fight the issue of off shoring Australian jobs.
It really is now only a ONE ISSUE event on these cabin crew threads.
The AO EBA will be the death of Qantas L/H
the Australian public must be made aware of the marketing hypocisy that Qantas is engaging in.
Make the board squirm about the morals & ethics of their business strategies and they'll jump on senior managent from a great height.
SHAME THE BRAND & YOU MAY JUST SAVE THE JOBS.
Don't let this idea disappear . its the only constructive one we've got.

[qcc2]

reality is the ever increasing sickleave does not come from aus based crew but now its akl guys, turn over there is ever increasing. also london does not provide the savings what the id**ts in the office thought it will do. internal discontend with the style of management also doesn't sit well. lets build it a bit further until the big broomstick comes through again.
and the usual but very reliable quote:
"pay peanuts get monkeys" and we sure have enough now in the office and some online.
:ok:

["F" module]

"Excuse me mister......the sign on the side of the aeroplane says
Queensland
And
Northern
Territory
Air
Services

so why are all the cabin crew from Bangkok and Auckland?

"Qantas Airways -About as Australian as a Doner Kebab."

Board: Change your employment strategy or change your name!
You are becoming a national disgrace!

["F" module]

"From the heart of my bottom, welcome aboard Australian Airlines, master."
"G'day, I'll have a VB thanks."
"Sorry, we only have Singha or Steinlager"
"But you're calling yourself Australian Airlines and you got no Australian product?"
"Singha and Steinlager are a much cheaper beer, they may taste crap but take it or leave it"
"I'll leave it - and I want my money back for false advertising! Change your brand name and logo you mongrels!"

[qfcsm]

Hey I know what to say to JBM when he says "if you hate is so much leave".

Well let me tell you JBM, why the heck would I leave.
I work (sic) around 26 hours a week;
I work (sic) a day then have at least a day off;
I get paid $100,000 plus per annum;
I stay in lovely hotels;
I get paid cash allowances;
I can go sick whenever I feel like it;
I can do bugger all on the plane;
I will get J/C staff travel for life in a couple of years;
And I can bitch about it all day long!

That's why I won't leave - cause I got it damn good and I won't leave.

So there, na na na na na....!

[Jet_Black_Monaro]

Thanks for highlighting what I have been trying to say all along ie, lacking productivity, overpaid, abuses sick leave, lazy and a bad attitude.

Hey, lets also include that post in the "sustained media blitz" to win the hearts and minds of Australians.

And you all wonder why you are being squeezed out of a job.

[str]

$100,000!!! wow when did you join.? I'm lucky to make $50,000 (minimum wage in Sydney according to SMH) and that includes my allowances!!!

[Suelle]

hi everyone,

received notfication on Monday of CONGRATULATIONS you have made it through the recruitment process successfully for the shortlist, and you will be kept on it for 6 months.

has anyone heard what Qantas is doing?

just a big waiting game i guess

Sx

[jesski]

same response here.. just received the email a few minutes ago.
awwwwww i was so excited when i saw the congrats bit and then so disappointed when i read short list. if they are anything like they have been in the whole recruitment process i wont even hear from them at all...... ive heard of too many occasions where people on shortlists have been overlooked.

[flugenluft]

LL, I have read a lot of vindictive posts from you however I don't understand what the above has to do with Qantas IR issues. Perhaps JBM's posts are a bit close to the truth for you? Try and keep it on subject because you only weaken your own argument with that crap. There are a lot of anti-JBM posts yet no-one seems to be able to mount a sensible counter argument to the points he/she raises. I am therefore left with no option but to form the opinion that JBM must be very close to the truth. Take qfcsm's post for example. What a disgraceful attitude. JBM's reply is spot on!

fl :*

[tow-truck]

jesski

Welcome to the world of QF double speak, if you ever get in your will get used to it.
you learn to read between the lines.
Good luck to you, wishing you all the best, you will get there,,,,, eventually....

[flugenluft]

Calling JBM a clown still does not counter his/her argument. I think JBM's posts are clear and concise but also think he/she is getting all the brownie points because no-one seems to be able to post a valid counter argument. I really want to hear the other side but ain't hearing it. I have no reply to you Tow Truck

fl :cool:

[TightSlot]

lowerlobe - As on the AO thread, you seem to be posting raw abuse in preference to actually addressing the issues raised: Take a 24hr threadban on this, and the AO thread cool down and then try again.

flugenluft could be on to something? Instead of mocking him/her - why not address the issue raised? Just a thought...

["F" module]

the faaa has to take the fight to the Australian public.
management cannot be allowed to quietly gut the company internally while still trading on a peachy Aussie image.

[str]

So guys what are we going to do?

Everyone is bitching on this forum about the mis-managers at Qantas, including myself.

We all know they are running the company into the ground and sending thousands of Australian jobs overseas.

What are we going to do about it?

You can start by getting on the phone to the union, we all know they are a waste of time but at least let them know how we feel.

How about writing/emailing/phoning the papers, TV channels etc...over and over...until they take note of the fact that over 100 Australian contractors just lost their jobs because of their positions went to English crew.

We've been complaining on this forum for almost a year now about jobs being outsourced but no one is prepared to do anything, apart from complain on an anonymous rumour board.

How about contacting Dick Smith, he always make himself out to be an Aussie battler supporter, maybe a letters to him from several hundred crew would make him say something on TV and get the ball rolling.

We have do something NOW.....so let start.

["F" module]

I agree str
but as has been constructively discussed on these posts before, the faaa needs to employ a reputable PR company to co -ordinate this broadcasting to the media.
Qantas has a public affairs dept with 10 full time journos & spin doctors on stand -bye 24/7 to deflect any attempt to de value the brand.
It has to be co-ordinated and sustained not an ad -hoc letter or newspaper piece.
THE ACTU PROBABLY HAS TO GET INVOLVED. We are not the only Australian industry losing jobs overseas e.g Banks & supermarket chains using New Dehli telephone centres. Its a trend that has to be stopped.
Arguments used by JBM about the global economy and the price of labour in free market are ultimately not morally sustainable and will take the world back to the bad old days of the industrial revolution. Child labour and canaries in the coal mine are the end result of this type of thinking.
A PRE CONDITION OF OUR NEXT EBA THAT IS NOT NEGOTIABLE - IS THE CLOSURE OF THE BKK BASE. PURE & SIMPLE.
CLOSE THE BASE AND WE'LL STOP TALKING TO THE MEDIA.
L/H WILL have to put something on the table in return - like maybe 200 hrs per roster (THE G.O.D'S HAVE GONE.....I'd still like to come back though as a Qantas lower lobe sink...) - but its better than losing these jobs offshore FOREVER!

[peanut pusher]

AIRLINE OF THE YEAR 2005

1
Cathay Pacific

2
Qantas Airways

3
Emirates

4
Singapore Airlines

5
British Airways

6
Malaysia Airlines

7
Thai Airways

Well done Qantas another climb in the airline of the year awards.
Year in year out your always a top 5 performer.
A credit to the staff and well done BA, the second non asian airline to make the list.
Not once has any American airlines featured in the top 10, wonder why.

PS over 3.5 million pax surveyed

[str]

Mmm...wonder if QF will treat us any better now they know what a fantastic job, the majority, of us are doing?

Nah...even more pay decreases on the way!

[str]

I agree but not sure about closing the BKK base. The LHR base should definately go, several of my mates where on the fixed term contracts and now have no job at all due to the opening of the LHR base (BTW everyone all is happy there, but ERIC seems to think all is hunky dory)

I also wouldn't mind increasing working hours and even reducing some conditions in order for jobs to stay in Australia. But at the moment the company is reducing conditions AND moving jobs overseas.

They can talk about market conditions blah..blah... all they want. At the end of the day my group certificate reported around $50k last year. I'm very junior so have no control over my roster, am on a crappy base pay and super plan. There are very few crew earning $100k per year (as someone else mentioned they earn). Good on them for making that much but I know I will never earn that much doing this job but I don't expect to earn less than minimum wage when I am always working overnight, weekends, public holidays etc. I don't mind doing the shift work if I am making over $50k and can afford to pay the mortgage, anything less than that and I might as well go and work in an office.

Come on guys get writting letters and send them everyday to every publication until someone listens!

[tow-truck]

Lowering our conditions, I don't think so!.
Altering them......maybe.....
If QF decide to close any base it should be the AKL base, most of the "crew" employed there are not very productive.
AT least the Thais work, look at the difference on the FRA trips, having the 4 BKK crew down the back makes the biggest difference, they work and they have an interest in their job, I could not believe the difference between the 2 bases.
The AKL crew whinge all the time about their conditions etc...... the sooner they go the better.......
so if we have to compromise, lets keep the Thais and shut down the AKL base, and far as LHR goes...... it wont last .........I spoke to the Thais and they have confirmed all that I have read on this forum.......

[peanut pusher]

There is a need for 25 crew more to cover holidays and a greater reserve coverage.
Guess what? only one person has left out of almost 400 (death of parent in Aus). Flying is unreal, 4 day slips in most ports except Bangkok where it's a 2 day slip and some 3 day.
I'am actualy making more money than I did back home and the tax system is very kind to cabin crew.
Hows your continual negative shallow life going, not so good I gather.
So in responce to your cheap shot of a question, I coudn't keep up the individual responces as it was taking to much time to respond and I only planned to let it stand for 24hrs.
Back on the Topic, we'll done crew, you should see the latest customer satifaction survey info base V base.

[str]

PP, you forgot to mention the 4 people who have been dismissed....all Aussies I hear?

[peanut pusher]

1 person got sacked for going sick and then using staff travel to go away for a weekend in Spain.
1 person not 4 and a couple of people got a rap across the knuckles for stupid things that you would put down to common sence.

Jetslagger, no silver for me just reality and get with the program because you'll never change it. Leave if it's so bad, should get a job in the real world, if you can.

For me after my 2 years I'll be leaving to another career so I don't go back and turn into a bitter twisted person like you.

OK OK Ok back to the original survey before the hate mongers takeover another thread from airline of the year to why I hate everything everyday.

PS. The Thai crew were crap for the first 12 months themselves and would cut your throat for more money at the blink of an eye.
Do I have to revisit all the funny Thai crew stories we use to have to prove a point.
The Thai base has done more damage than any other thing in L/H flying history, why don't you give them a serve because they stab you in the back to the LHR base continually.

[OCCR]

Peanut puller,

Who gives a toss what the Thais think!

I generally read your posts and wonder what planet youre on, however, you do make a valid point......

PS. The Thai crew were crap for the first 12 months themselves and would cut your throat for more money at the blink of an eye.

Be aware all crew, the thais are having a field day playing us against each other

by the way, have a look at this ppruneners comments about ALL cabin crew flying ninja here is a link

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1932665#post1932665

this person is a problem, not the other bases

[GalleyHag]

Tighslot is on the right track a web site dedicated to the demise of the Qantas brand through the outsourcing of crew to off-shore bases at the expense of Australian jobs plus the casualisation of the Australian short haul workforce may just make people sit up and listen. Factual information about the number of fixed term crew recently ditched in favour of UK nationals, the unlimited use of offshore crew in AO and the list goes on.

For those of us that remember the "exceptional" course the one thing Qantas doesnt want in any shape or form is negative reports about the company and brand out in the public, through the media including internet websites. Rumour has it Qantas threatened to take action against Crikey at one stage, but didnt do any good.

If this website gets up and it becomes known, maybe, just maybe the media may pick up stories and run with them, as all they have at the moment is forums like this which contain quite a bit of friction amoungst each division.

[Argus]

Pleased to see that in the 2005 Skytrax Awards (http://www.airlinequality.com/2005/airline-05-ent.htm) , QF managed a respectable second place.

Yet in the same World Awards, QF Cabin Staff (http://www.airlinequality.com/2005/staff-05.htm) didn't make the top seven.

Before the usual suspects rush to abuse me and accuse me of being a QF management plant (which I’m not) for raising this issue, may I respectfully suggest that people take a moment to reflect on the Survey’s methodology and what it purports to represent.

According to the small print, the survey attracted almost 3.5 million (3,461,902) eligible nominations from at least 93 different nationalities over a 10 month period, there were detailed back-up interviews of a representative sample of respondents and, finally, data weighting was applied to provide nomination equity when evaluating airlines of different size and network. Unless that’s all a pack of lies, it’s a well run survey and the results should be reliable.

Survey respondents nominated airlines in the 2005 Best Cabin Staff Awards, based upon the Quality attributes for the different airline's cabin staff, listed below:

*Assistance during boarding
*Welcoming passengers
*Applying safety procedures
*Food & Beverage service efficiency
*Answering call bell
*Staff language skills
*Problem solving ability
*Discipline among staff
*Enthusiasm of staff
*Sincerity of Staff service
*Friendliness of staff
*Courtesy of Staff service
*Consistency of Quality among staff
*Total service efficiency
*Total cabin presence
*Staff grooming & Presentation

IMHO, that’s a comprehensive list from which to have one’s performance assessed.

And to preempt any criticism of failure to take on board safety into account, why is it suggested that Cabin Crew can either provide superb service or good safety skills if required - but not both?

The ‘safety’ argument is a red herring. Of course Cabin Crew ability to cope with an emergency is of paramount importance, but the percentage of flights where skills are required is very small. In contrast, good service and a good approach to passengers is important on every flight.

I don't accept that being well-trained to cope with emergencies and providing the sort of in-flight service which such a large number of passengers appreciate is inconsistent or mutually exclusive.

Is it suggested that Asiana Airlines (the winning CC) isn't safe just because they train their Cabin Crew to provide the service and attitude to customers which their customers appreciate?

Or that Asiana's Cabin Crew aren't trained/able to cope with emergencies just because they deliver only service and a customer focused attiitude to their passengers?

I’m no supporter of Australian jobs being lost to overseas interests. But before you all spend a motza on an advertising campaign, I respectfully suggest that QF Cabin Crew reflect on the quality of the service they offer before seeking public support for their cause.

[jettlager]

Argus,

interesting to see that your anti qf CC post of a couple of days ago on the D&G forum re the above was completely ignored.

I hope that my post makes you feel a little better.

Are you aware that the three airlines that compare with qf in size and product namely Thai, Singapore Airlines and Malaysian all operate the 744 [as an example] with 5-8 more cabin crew than do qf ?

Is it in you, to acknowledge that CC at qf MAY be responsible in "some way" for the favourable skytrax review?

Is it in you, to acknowledge that higher aircraft crewing levels in the order of 25-30% MAY have something to do with passenger perception and satisfaction?

May I respectfully suggest that an individual able to hold a balanced and unbiased position would do so.

Jettlager

[argusmoon]

Cabin Crew are the face of any airline.They spend more time with the pax than any other airline employee.Cabin crew apologize for the shortcomings of management,engineers,aircraft designers and caterers to name but a few.Cabin crew require resources to do their job.As has been said over and over again CC at Qantas are told they are a necessary evil.Reviled by management and denied the resources to do their job well.CC at Qantas are the scapegoats for chronic service failures.
We want to do our job well( very well) and are hamstrung by lip service paying management.Any airline requires X amount of expenditure on product to be competitive.At present at QF it is about X(-2) and heading toward X(-3).Considering how little QF CC have to work with I am surprised the airline rates in the top 20 and its crew in the top 50.For godsake give the crewbashing a break and understand that there are 28,000 other employees who may also contribute to the problems the airline faces with its product.
Cabin Crew :the public face of the airline and the bloody scapegoats for management incompetence and indifference.
Get rid of performance bonuses and you will see a huge improvement

[Argus]

Ah, jettlager up to your usual trick, I see, of attempting to personalise the argument, and then playing the person rather than the ball.

Rather than accusing me of bias, you (and argusmoon) should focus on the fact that, however unpalatable it must be, almost 3.5 million Skytrax survey respondents in the last ten months have concluded that the generality of QF cabin (as opposed to flight deck, ground and engineering) staff, have failed to perform to a level that ranks QF cabin staff in the world's top seven. If that's hard to take, then that's unfortunate. Nevertheless, it's fact.

Sorry old son, from the passengers' point of view, value for hard earned spondulaks looms large in the choice of carrier. Tell me why I should chance my hard earned money on a fare with QF when there's a possibility that some of your fellow posters (and maybe even yourself) will be more concerned in spruking bile against Geoff Dickson, rather than doing the job you're currently paid to do.

[argusmoon]

Skytrax doesnt provide a category for management or engineers,but they do for CC.Why?Because CC are the product and as I said before there is little investment or encouragement to do well .This is particularly so as far resources are concerned.
ARGUS you are living in Disneyland.Your criticism is generally a value judgement with scant detail to support any of your assertions.In fact you are starting to sound like a broken 78.Instead of being critical(which is easy)offer some constructive ideas for improvement.
Interesting to note that Sing Air is down to number four.
The food we have to serve is crap.We rate 10th in P/C,7th in J/C and 5th in Y/C.ARGUS CC do not produce the catering.Less than 1% of aircraft delays are down to crew with some 32% down to engineering and ATC.While you are busy having a go at crew(soft targets)have alook at some of the other areas that have an impact on the perception of the product.
The QF IFE doesn`t even rate.The CC are not responsible for that either.
Crew are being made to deliver a third rate product.The perception is that crew are responsible for that product.Let me say if we were it would be a hell of alot better than it is.Serving a third rate product is downright embarrassing.There is no pride in that.
ARGUS you are in danger of becoming irrelevant to this discussion(if you haven`t already)

[firepussy]

You require 2 different hats when relating to safety and service.One.. Service requires a somewhat different approach to Two... safety.Safety requires assertiveness and strong forceful direction...Service does not.Sexism dictates that chauvinists like you will always prefer to be served(serviced)by a compliant submissive asian girl.Will she save your arse?Depends on how cute it is.
How about some clever constuctive ideas?(echo)

[jetjockey7]

Three criteria for best cabin crew....
1.Female
2.Asian
3.Plenty of them.
As an aussie bloke with a face like a dropped pie,how can I possibly compete?These girls would make a s**t sandwich taste like veal cordon bleu.
Old Argus must have a lump in his duds when he flies these Asian Carriers.You naughty boy you`ll go blind

[Argus]

Your points about attractiveness/youth v ability/experience are correct. However, the survey wasn't about the most attractive Cabin Crew. And attractiveness and ability aren't inconsistent.

This was a survey of customer opinion, not people in the business. My comments were made from a customer's point of view about a customer satisfaction survey.

Why are you all so surprised that people take this kind of survey seriously? There are various tourist and hotel guides which sell millions of copies every year. Some use their own researchers, others rely upon customer comments. The guides take into account not only the quality of the food/comfort of the bedroom, but the quality of service given by the staff, e.g. efficiency, attentiveness, friendliness, courtesy, enthusiasm, attitude to customers etc etc. They don't deal with the safety of the establishment, the ability of the staff to evacuate the building in the event of a fire, compliance with food hygiene regulations etc, but they're still useful guides.

Don’t shoot the messenger; act on the message!

[argusmoon]

The broken 78.You have added nothing to the discussion,answered none of the questions presented.You have provided no constructive solutions just rhetorical criticism. You are irrelevant.

[captainrats]

Lousy food
Lousy IFE
Aircraft Breakdowns
Crumby Lounges
Poor Check In facilities.
The impression is created before CC can open their mouths.The CC begin every sentence with ...I`m sorry.Apologizing for somebody elses incompetence is never easy.CC are the deliverers(messengers)of crap DON`T SHOOT THEM!!Then you are threatened and intimidated at sign on.I have seen CC in tears before going to work due to a "conversation"with a PDM/team leader.The only individuals accountable for anything in QF are the crew.The rest of the cockroaches hide in the shadows with their clipboards.Most of QF employees have never even met a bloody customer let alone understand their wants and needs .The CC do but their feedback is totally ignored.In the end to save your sanity you become indifferent knowing you can`t make a difference.

[mach2male]

Solutions...anybody?Solutions....... pleeeze!

[Argus]

Some thoughts and a suggestion.

Industrial psychologists and employee relations people would blanch at the current level of conflict in what must be, on any view, a dysfunctional work group within QF.

What management wants is change. Many of the employees are totally opposed to change. The union seems to accept the management’s reasons for change but doesn’t seem to have finalized its negotiating position on trade offs.

Change in large organizations is usually achieved by a combination of employee participation, negotiation, agreement, manipulation and coercion. Some employees actively embrace change; some actively resist it. One possible option that’s usually on the table is voluntary redundancy. Redundancy isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but when coupled with some form of job retraining/tertiary studies assistance package, the pill can be less bitter and actually lead to new career opportunities.

An example of such a package was negotiated in 1993 with unions representing employees of the now defunct Commonwealth Department of Administrative Services. Those who volunteered for redundancy received full pay for 12 months if they undertook an “approved” tertiary or TAFE course, thence award redundancy benefits thereafter. The Commonwealth also picked up the tab for HECS, textbooks and other institutional fees during the 12 month period.

A major ‘head hunting’ firm was contracted to assist individuals in finding employment.

If memory serves me correctly, the whole package was negotiated under the stewardship of the ACTU.

Might be worth considering. Surely it's better than the vitriol and personal abuse!

[mach2male]

QF has been down that road.They are not prepared to do it again as the people who go are not the targetted group.
Next suggestion please...anyone?

[qcc2]

captainrats said it all. its pretty hard to work every time with substandard equipment, faulty ife etc. in the new ife category qf doen't get a mention. i wonder why. because it has problems on average of more then 50% of flights or because the customers think they are on an retro 70's nostalgic trip when they see the screens on the 767. :{

lets bring on voluntary redundancies. there are enough crew out there who cant wait to get it. i would think a stampede is coming the day they announce a package. on would hope that a compulsary package is also available for managers in the office.
at least 80% should go because of sheer incompetance.

just the let yous know that in the ongoing surveys qf management does with customers, cabin crew does have a CONSISTANT HIGH APPROVAL RATING.
THATS THE FEEDEBACK FROM QANTAS PUNTERS .
the definition of todays qf punter is a person, particulary frequent flyers, who can have a punt on what does not work on this coming sector.
1)ife breaks down (csm fixes it, another part breaks down, more resets, you get my drift)
2)no meal choice (first meal)
3)no meal choice 9second meal)
4) seats has a fault
5) his ff points upgrade is lost in the system
6) the requested seat in his profile has gone to someone else
7) check in staff would not be helpfull
8)lounge full as standing room only
9) aircraft delayed
10) aircraft late
11) duty free n/a
and many other issues

[Nihao]

I thought MAM casuals only did short haul. Do they do long haul also?:confused:

[jettlager]

There are no longhaul MAM casuals.

[str]

.....and sometimes no meal at all because our wonderful leaders decided to UNDERCATER flights in order to save more money.

Argus - The said at a recent forum they will not be offering volantary redundancies as they haven't budgeted for it. There are hundreds of crew who can't wait for a package to be offered so they can get out before things get any worse.

Offering a package would cost money and therefore affect the 'managers' bonuses. So what they have done is forced hundreds of crew to go on leave etc. as there is no flying for anyone in Australia because the Kiwis, Thai's and POMS are doing it all.

What will happen in a few months when everyone has exhausted all their leave and the company has hundreds of crew sitting at home on reserve/low line (being paid) with no flying for them?

It really is time a change of 'morons' at QCC.

PS. How many concerned crew here have bothered to write to the press / MP's about the exportation of our jobs?

I send email to them everyday, so far the press haven't printed a thing. Its amazing what the ad buying power of a corporation can do!

[lowerlobe]

str,

Could not agree more!

Have you seen the latest from the faaa? any thoughts?

Which media have you tried to contact? I was thinking of the telegraph as they are keen or seem to be keen to criticise QF.

[jettlager]

Given that the "idiot son" has been strategically placed on the qf board I wouldnt bother with any of the packer owned press.

[lowerlobe]

I think your right with us getting no sympathy from the Packer owned media.

How about Tightslot's idea of a web page ,initially I thought it would not work but maybe it might just get some publicity,look at crikey.com

[Iguanahead]

There are crew coming to the end of their contract in the next month or so. From what I have been told they have not been offered renewal for the contract or permanent work for the future. They have been asked to hand back their uniforms and Asics. :( They are not Mam contractors.

Currently long haul are overstaffed and are trying to use up the annual leave bank to help alleviate the situation.

I wish all the contract crew good luck and hope they find themselves employment soon. :ok:

[mach2male]

QF management start at point A.Employees start at point ZED and then compromise to point A...QF management happy!!!

[Argus]

Surely there’s scope for some creative negotiation here.

Each side has something that the other side wants.

With the common ground thus established, you need a negotiation strategy to get what you want, without conceding too much from the other side.

Start with trying to establish some reasoned communication with the other side.

Look at longer term cost savings - a subject dear to any manager's heart.

And the serious talking is done behind closed doors, not through the media.

[lowerlobe]

the problem with negotiations is to have someone to negotiate for you,is anyone else unhappy with the current direction the faaa is taking?

[jettlager]

Ah............qf are overstaffed with longhaul Australian based FA because much of our traditional flying has been leached to shorthaul.

This situation has been exacerbated by recent increases in overseas based employment.

Australian based crew are being forced to take long service leave by management in an effort to make the books looks better as unused LSL sits as a liability on the ledger.

Executive performance bonuses are at stake.

Jettlager

[jettlager]

Marsha,

I'm sorry to see so many good Australian based FAs let go in favour of overseas based crew.

The disease that afflicts qf is the, "management performance bonus."

It stifles investment in planes and equipment and guarantees that a short term approach to decision making is taken at all levels of [mis]management.

I seriously doubt that qf will ever hire permanent FAs ever again. Certainly not given the direction of the PRESENT federal government.

Why hire Australians, who you have to pay a living wage when you can hire offshore and do otherwise???

Jettlager

[str]

I'm very unhappy with the current FAAA reps. They seem to be more interested in AO's conditions than long haul.

I cancelled my membership with them last year after the farce EBA was agreed to without any consultation with the crew. I suggest if you are not happy with them you do the same, they are running a business (in some respects) and without funds coming in from members they will struggle. If they see members cancelling maybe they will take action and change direction.

Just call and tell them you want to cancel - 1800 267 952 - if they ask why tell them exactly how you are feeling.

I've contacted the Australian and the SMH mainly because they recently ran stories that QF have threatened to send 3000 jobs overseas unless they get their own way. I've also written to members of parliment on both sides, on Labour seem interested as they are the only ones who reply. The Libs obviously have anything with the word QANTAS in it set to go to SPAM folder automatically!!

A website would be easy to set up, I used to be a web site designer in a previous life! However, I was thinking maybe a chain email would be a start.

Not sure how to word it but basically we could voice our concerns that QF are sending jobs offshore and over 100 crew just lost their jobs to English people. Pass it onto everyone at Qantas.com.au email domains and get as many names as possible. Once it gets to several thousand (which I think we could manage) pass it onto Dixon and his cronies

[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

Whats your thoughts on starting something like that off?

[cart_elevator]

I hope this post is as balanced as I can make it. Just my reflections on the london base. A bit of history,I was an 11 month contractor,who's only choice to get full time employment with qantas was to move to london for two years. It was a hard choice,but as others have mentioned I would be unemployed as the guys I trained with are now if I hadn't taken the two year contract. Some would say blackmail,and it feels like it at times.

I think peanut pusher is being a bit over the top about how great london is. He or she may be having the time of his/her life,but it isnt all roses. Already I am very homesick,and a lot of the crew are tired and sick.

The crew are mostly great,some of the new ones are taking a long time just to get tha basics happening and it gets a bit tiring having to carry several people on every sector. The flying is ok,not much different to working out of Australia. It is funny watching all the younger ones from both Australia and the UK making fools of themselves at slip ports! The clothes the girls wear and the the amount of drinking they do! Some of them are going to get into a bit of trouble down line I think!

Its kind of a strange base,depends on who your csm& css is on the trips. Its clearly divided,the short haul csms are all very strict,they wont even let us have a glass of wine on the bus! There are rumours of crew having discipline action taken against them for doing it! I know I was only long haul for a year out of australia, but I always had a drink with the crew on the bus on every trip! It kind of takes away a lot of the fun,a lot of the fun isnt here in the new base. You just learn to ignore those csms and keep out of their way. Haven't seen one room party since I have been here! The british crew are all very clicky and dont seem to mix with us from australia that much. I think maybe cos they only hired girls out of here there are only about 5 local british boys hired out of all of them that I know of. From experience the boys are always the ones driving the social stuff in slip ports!

The long slips are great though,just got back from 4 days in Hong Kong, the new hotel is great! The 31 and 32 are even worse than they used to be,as sometimes there is only you who knows what they are doing! The 32 is a long flight home! We also have 4 day slips in singapore, they are great as a lot of the crew go out there and I get to see friends from sydney. The 32 hour slips in bangkok are a bit hard, but there is only so much you can do there!

Meeting the Sydney crew at the aircraft is kind of strange, even people I knew before I left have been rude to me. Sometimes I cannot believe how rude these crew are to fellow crew,and it makes me sad. Do they not realise some of our choices were to come here or get sacked? There doesnt seem to be a lot of compassion from sydney crews,it all seems to be about them! But a lot of them just get on and say hi and go about their business. The thai crew are a mixed bunch,some bag sydney crew to us,others argue constantly with the css,and some are nice.

Living in london isnt as expensive as everyone said. The rent is hideous but the day to day living is ok. I dont know how the local hired crew do it without the relocation allowance though. The food here is terrible,and I have put on so much weight! Yes there was one girl who got fired for going on holiday on sick leave. A lot of crew seem to be in trouble up here,everyone talks about people who have been in trouble. The office people here are all nice to your face,but everyone knows they are very quick to pull you up on the smallest things. I just try to avoid them by coming in to the office as close to sign on as I can.

Overall I am content for the time being,but cannot wait to get back home. The two years cannot go quick enough for me!

This is only my view on my base. It isnt all good, and it isnt all bad. The people who say it's all bad obviously aren't here,and the people who say it's all good are just trying to defend it.

It's just another base.

[lowerlobe]

As I have mentioned before,we live in a free world and can make decisions that we feel are best for us.

Unfortunately that is also our achilles heel.

the company does a superb job of divide and conquer ,using jobs and other enticements to further their goals.these continual cuts in emplyees conditions is not about returns to the share holder,the share price has not gone up one cent,it is about bonuses for those on the board

I understand the frustration of people looking for a job and I think it is disgraceful the way QF treats employees and also people they are hiring.

A number of people went to LHR and AKL because that is the only way they could get a job with QF and were told that by QF and I bet most are hoping that they will get a job when they return and for their sake ,I hope they are correct .I believe that if there is a vacancy then people should be hired full time not to be used as QF thinks fit on a contract and not to be used as a pawn in their game when it suits them.

For Longhaul crew to be told that if they did not accept an increase in working hours and a decrease in conditions with the flying to JFK then QF would replace them with foreign crew is nothing short of immoral and the faaa went along with that under the guise that they are protecting our jobs!!!!! What the ****

You can't blame those locals that apply for a job in one of the bases ,they are only looking for as job and do not know the politics being played at home.

I think there should be a concerted publicity camapign to show the public the problems that will happen if this MO of Australian companies is allowed to continue.

What will happen next,checkout girls at supermarkets brought to Australia on 11 month contracts,doctors from the sub continent..the list could go on until the only people employed in Australia are the ones on boards of companies.

the faaa has recommended that AO crew accept the pre-conditions set out by AO and vote when everone in the industry can see what QF is doing to both Longhaul and short haul by playing them of against each other and opening up bases all over the place.

Can you imagine what will happen to the flying lines and reserve of existing AO crew when they get unlimited bases with NO cap.

And all we get from the faaa is a newsletter that sounds like it was written by GD himself.

A friend talked to AS at the faaa the other day and AS laughed at the suggestion of a media campaign.So can we call for an extra-ordinary meeting of the faaa and put up a vote of NO confidence,perhaps we should pay a little more and hire a legal team with experience not ACTU apprentices who seem to be out manouvered at every step..?

[Pro Golfer 69]

Cart Elevator

Thanks for the update on London, that was very interesting. Interesting about the ex short haul CSM's not letting you drink on the bus. I know what I’d be saying if they told me I couldn't have a beer on the bus after an 18-hour tour of duty (go forth and multiply!) They must be ex Melbourne CSM's (the most anal morons on the planet) Unfortunately the flying is only going to get harder in the coming months. The long slip in HKG will go when they start the 4th weekly service in November and the QF 15/16 will increase shortly too cutting out any decent slip time in SIN. Qantas was smart in starting the base in the summer months over there. Wait until the 6 month winter sets in and the sick leave starts spiraling! Hopefully the whole thing will collapse and you can come and start flying out of Oz again!

[Mr Seatback 2]

Pro Golfer 69,

I read this part of your post with interest:

"Interesting about the ex short haul CSM's not letting you drink on the bus. I know what I’d be saying if they told me I couldn't have a beer on the bus after an 18-hour tour of duty (go forth and multiply!) They must be ex Melbourne CSM's (the most anal morons on the planet)"

Without wanting to sound 'anal', here are the following problems associated with drinking the bus (and no, I'm not a short haul CSM):
1) You are in uniform. Doesn't matter if you're at work, on duty, or otherwise, you are 'seen' by the public to be at work. Just like a police officer would be naturally deemed to be 'at work' if they wore their uniform.

What - you don't get seen by the public? No windows on your bus then? What about when you have to walk through the hotel lobby? Think QF wants a set of boozy crew tumbling through the lobby?

Whilst I have no doubt that after a long duty you all DESERVE a drink (as we all do), couldn't you at least wait till you got into the room? Or better still, wait for other crew to join you in any room for a good old fashioned room party? In the privacy of your hotel room, no one knows what you get up to (unless, of course, you invite the general public IN :E )

2) Drinking in uniform - in ANY airline - is verboten (except maybe Aeroflot, but that's another story...) Even going so far as to be seen PURCHASING booze in a liquor store is enough, in most airlines, to be given a reprimand.

Apparently - airline crew don't drink (that's the image airlines want to portray) - this, despite the fact, that most of management's actions these days DRIVE US TO DRINK! :}

Back to the topic at hand (hic)...

Fact is, if any CSM pulled you up on this, they WOULD BE IN THE RIGHT TO DO SO! And don't think they wouldn't report you for it - for it is this reason why they enforce this requirement - to save their own skin!

How do I know this?

Well...let me tell you a story...

I used to work for Air NZ as ground staff (years ago - but not much has changed). With time, I got to know many of the Long Haul characters that made up the Intl flights - both 'anal' and otherwise.

One day, I met an arriving flt in and once all passengers had disembarked, the ISD (Air NZ's version of CSM) asked me over. She explained that a passenger was not upgraded ex AKL with his u/g certificate, even though a seat was available.

I said "Why didn't you upgrade him onboard?"

She said, "Oh I'm not allowed to - anyway, my job is worth more to me than that!"

"What do you mean?"
"Well, I'd risk getting dobbed in for it"
"Huh?"
"That's right. The opportunities for promotion are so limited here (this was pre-2001) that other crew will dob you in for the slightest infraction so that it releases a new ISD position on board"

This story was relayed to me a number of times (citing various stories) by both ISD's and ISC's (CSS) over the years. Both from those who were cautious, and those who weren't and got demoted/punished.

SO - at the risk of sounding like a nagging mother - look over your shoulder Pro Golfer 69. Be careful. The good old days of flying are gone, as cart elevator indicates here:

"A lot of crew seem to be in trouble up here,everyone talks about people who have been in trouble. The office people here are all nice to your face,but everyone knows they are very quick to pull you up on the smallest things. I just try to avoid them by coming in to the office as close to sign on as I can."

Do we have to like it? No - of course not. But why risk putting ourselves in a position where we risk being attacked - if not by management, then by our 'colleagues'?

[jettlager]

So we can't have a beer on the bus [that we have paid for] after a long day at the office for fear of being dobbed in by one of our own "brown nosing ladder climbers".

How completely and utterly pathetic.

It begs the question. How do the ex shortlaul CSMs cope with the actions of our thirsty tech crew given that we share transport on occasions?

Jettlager

[Mr Seatback 2]

Jettlager

I don't agree with it, but sadly - that's the way of life now. In the drive to climb the ladder (so to speak), people will do whatever it takes to get ahead.

I was only lamenting this the other day to my colleagues about how selfish and nasty society in general has become - not least of which in the workplace. Funnily enough, this attitude has existed at management level (in all industries) for many years - perhaps, only now, it's starting to filter down to those of us doing the hard work as we all duck for cover to protect our jobs?

Re: the Tech Crew...they're next on the block. New QF Second Officers have already been told that they'll be based in Singapore - the thin end of the wedge perhaps? Who would have thought all those years ago that the AKL and BKK bases would have swelled offshore labour to the extent that Cabin Crew have now?

It's all in D&G Reporting Points. How true this is, I don't know...but their terms and conditions, much like ours, are very much threatened. Because there's more Cabin Crew than Tech Crew (naturally), we have a bigger impact on the numbers in terms of hotels, allowances, leave accruals, etc. because there are more of us. That, and we have a greater proportion of Cabin Crew Managers chasing performance bonuses left right and centre than compared with pilot counterparts.

One thing I don't understand though - what did you mean re:
"So we can't have a beer on the bus [that we have paid for] after a long day at the office..."

We have paid for?? Maybe it's the Sav Blanc, but I don't understand?!

As I've said before - I don't agree with it either. That doesn't, however, negate the possible threat to my employment.

Pathetic? God yes!
A Real Risk? Absolutely!
Can I do anything about it? Not a chance.

The times have changed - and not for the better either.

[Captain.Q]

Qf Crew are able to purchase alcohol from onboard stores.Another way of QF generating revenue

[jettlager]

Mr Seatback 2,

what I meant was that crew drinking beer on the bus to the hotel will have paid for the beer and hold a reciept from the duty free seller.

I've NEVER heard of a longhaul SYD based CSM having a problem with the, "one can sector".
What happens under the direction of "power trippers" at other bases I can only guess.

Having said that I would suggest that in Brisbane a beer on the bus would be compulsary.

Attacks on our conditions/culture and lifestyle I can expect to come from management.

Why after all would qantas want happy, cheerful and relaxed staff............?

Its a sad day however, when we live and work in fear of our own.

Jettlager

[Mr Seatback 2]

Jettlager

For a moment there I thought you meant you paid FOR THE BUS! FOR GODS SAKE, DON'T TELL THAT ONE TO QANTAS! :}

Regarding the rest of your post, so true my friend, so true...

[Pro Golfer 69]

Anyway Mr Seatback

Who said anything about being in uniform? I may have changed out of my uniform and as company time finishes 15 minutes after the plane hits the blocks, I'm free to do as I please. Therefore THEY WOULD NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO. As for ‘boozy crew tumbling through the hotel lobby’. I'm not sure about you, maybe you don't drink, maybe you sit at home every night reading the annual report and books on being a brown nosing ladder climber with our pommy mate Kylie, but I’ll let you in on a little secret. 99% of adult males and females can consume 1 or even 2 standard drinks and still conduct themselves in a respectable manner, even drive a motor vehicle (which would be legal). Finally as for looking over my shoulder, I always do and I can smell people like you a mile off!

Enjoy your evening.

[Jet_Black_Monaro]

I seriously doubt that qf will ever hire permanent FAs ever again

With attitudes like yours is that in any way surprising?

The OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of your colleagues agreed to the increase in offshore based crew only last year. That puts your radical view in the minority. Had everyone followed you at the last EBA they would all be unemployed now.

:D

[labia vortex]

...all unemployed now(?)and the airline would be closed now.

[Mr Seatback 2]

Hold it Pro Golfer 69...

In my many years in both the airport and flying environment, I've yet to see crews find the time in the rush to clear customs, quarantine, etc. to change from their uniform into civvies. Not to say that it doesn't happen, of course, and you're right - if you're in civvies, different story.

But you failed to make this distinction didn't you. How on earth am I meant to determine whether or not you're in uniform from your most recent post?

"'Im not sure about you, maybe you don't drink, maybe you sit at home every night reading the annual report and books on being a brown nosing ladder climber with our pommy mate Kylie"

I see - resorting to personal attacks because I'm stating a fact. Clever. :hmm:

"99% of adult males and females can consume 1 or even 2 standard drinks and still conduct themselves in a respectable manner, even drive a motor vehicle (which would be legal). Finally as for looking over my shoulder, I always do and I can smell people like you a mile off!"

Can they? I've met many crew in my career who are what you might call 'two pot screamers'. Perhaps mine can't hold their booze as well as you?

You don't have to worry about looking over your shoulder for me luvvy, there are plenty of others who YOU'VE got to watch out for.

Play the ball, not the player.

[gigs]

would it not be fantastic if pacific blue were able to fly domestic runs in oz there by lowering virgins cost base and increasing profit.this in turn would make better bonus for their managers.it may however affect australians wanting to work for virgin as crew or even make some existing redundant!!!!!

[tow-truck]

ooohhhhhhhh JBM........ you're back!
Here we go again folks, JBM has crawled out from under his rock, the doom and gloom starts once again..... is it a full moon?
...let the fun begin......

[cartexchange]

ok, another brawl in lax
This time it was in the crew room and I heard it was 2 Cabin crew and one Tech.
I know for a fact that they were paxed home, I know the names, one is a CSM, an Bfirst and an F/O, but what I dont know are the full details, anyone out there know the details.
Sorry cant state the names, but they are well known!

[Pro Golfer 69]

Precious, who said anything about rushing through quarantine/customs blah blah. It’s not hard to whip your tie off and throw a jumper on! But hey, not being anal or anything, your right. There maybe a member of the public flying in a low level aircraft with a pair of binoculars who may see the Qantas logo on my belt buckle or maybe the CSM on the bus will come down to my seat and lift my top up to see if I’d taken my belt off, damm forgot about that! But then there’s my pants, but I’ve got a number of pairs of pants which are virtually identical in colour to the uniform, which in actual fact I use to fly in a lot of the time. Maybe the CSM on the bus is then going to ask me to undress so he can check the Qantas label on the inside of my pants. But hey we’re not being anal here are we? How about we use just a little bit of common sense here! Also one would assume that these people who you fly with who have this zero tolerance to alcohol probably would have the common sense not to have a drink on the bus. As for the so called personal attack I did say ‘maybe.’
Relax there big fella!
:ok:

[QFRegional]

I was totally unaware crew had drinks on the bus at Long Haul, over here at regional gezz you would be lined up in front of a firing squad if you even thought about doing that or even pulling a packet of smokes out of your bag in public so I can see where the different views on this matter arise.

Not having a go at anyone and if I could I would be the first one having a beer on the bus/taxi etc, however doesnt it state somewhere you cant consume alcohol in uniform (which you have explained you are not), on duty and on company property. Wouldnt the bus still be regarded as company property? They are afterall paying for it.

Not taking any sides here just interested, because if cabin crew management wanted a reason to take action against crew this would be handed to them on a plate.

[Pro Golfer 69]

QfRegional you make a good point. Even though the company pays for the bus, they don’t own it, not in international slip ports anyway. Qantas may use their own buses domestically to transport crew, if this is the case you are correct. However if the bus driver of the transport company says no drinking on the bus, then there’s no drinking on the bus period! This often happens in LAX. Another point is that international crew are permitted to purchase alcohol off the duty free seller on board, obviously this does not occur on domestic sectors. Smoking is obviously not permitted at anytime on any crew bus.

[Mr Seatback 2]

What, another one??

[tow-truck]

Cart elevator,
Thanks for your insight on the LHR base, you have basically confirmed all that I have heard.
The Thai crew have been quite informative about you guys, but I take what they say with a grain of salt, as they are quite sneaky and they like to play all of us off against each other.
I have seen the LHR crews during handovers and I have never been rude to the "obvious" new recruits, but I see the ones that have transferred from AUS as traitors and I simply cannot bring myself to acknowledge them, especially the Short haul pursers.
Its true that the aircraft is in an appalling state when we board, so far everytime nothing is ordered and there are always meals left over in the ovens, and yes as much as you hate hearing this the PAX do have a good whinge to us!, what we found the other week is even worse, I cant state it here as a report has been sent in, but boy was there a F###k up and a half.( otherwise I can be identified.)
Anyway I understand why someone like yourself had to go over there and there are no hard feelings, what a shame we could not employ you here in Australia, Good luck to you in the future.

[tow-truck]

you watch them bury this one like the NRT one....
did they sack the captain on the NRT punch-up! I bet you they didn't.
Its doing the rounds at work, apparently it was a beauty!, don't know the details yet!

[QFboi_MEL]

Bugger, I ain't working till Saturday, but knowing the gossip mills in the galley :8 I'm sure i'll find out something

[QF skywalker]

3somes rarely work out....when will these qf crew learn ?

[frangatang]

Whats a CSM, a chief sandwich maker?

[jettlager]

They manage everything that happens on board except the driving.

[surfside6]

Three of us were watching the dynamic in the crew room a couple of weeks ago.The niggling over music,wine ,beer were evident .We thought then it would be only be a matter of time before things got out of hand.
These altercations are symptomatic of the pressure people are under.Instead of being able to beat the crap out of Dixon they are taking their frustrations out on each other.There are now so many subcultures amongst crew all with different opinions clashes are bound to occur.Since 911 the contact between pilots and CC is almost non existent.LAX is the only place in the world where we share a crewroom.Sadly this may be a promise of things to come.
Maybe if we put Dixon`s face on a punching bag.......

[Ultralights]

so morale IS improving at QF then?

[411A]

Sharing crew rooms with tech and trolly dolly boys and girls is never a good idea.
Throw in a few too many beers, the trouble usually starts...aplenty.

Then, perhaps in the aeroplane, one or two CC decide they are 'in charge'....a bad combination, generally.
Some never learn, it appears.:p

[jettlager]

Good points well made Surfside6.

[GalleyHag]

Now that the government has decided that Qantas can maintain the pacific route without competition from Sinagpore Airlines for the time being, lets hope the FAAA lobbies Canberra to secure Austalian jobs.

With the government also likely to lift the current foreign ownership restrictions there should be a trade-off to maintain and RETURN jobs to Australia.

This presents an ideal opportunity for the FAAA to get involved and secure the future of current long haul crew and also create further employment within Australia.

[Pro Golfer 69]

Fight path grounds Qantas cabin crew

Author: Darren Goodsir
Publication: Sydney Morning Herald (3,Thu 16 Jun 2005)
Edition: First
Section: News and Features
Keywords: Qantas (5)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Qantas staff must often feel like throttling the odd angry passenger, but instead it seems they are taking their frustrations out on each other.

In the the third reported incident of staff-on-staff violence in as many months, a pilot and two flight attendants were called home from Los Angeles on Tuesday, after being stood down in the wake of a fight at the group's motel in which police are believed to have been called.

The incident has sparked concerns that tight rostering schedules, bigger work pressures and alcohol are leading to an increase in aggressive behaviour.

Yesterday Qantas confirmed a pilot - who was suspended three months ago after a wild fight in a Tokyo nightclub that left a cabin attendant in hospital - had recently been dismissed.

It is believed another cabin worker is now also under investigation, and has been stood down from work, after an alleged assault in Singapore, unrelated to the other incidents.

The Los Angeles altercation, in which kicks and punches were apparently exchanged, happened in a private lounge area at the Bonaventure Hotel.

Qantas's head of customer service, Lesley Grant, said management had "returned the people involved" to Sydney and they had been suspended from duty.

"We are conducting a formal investigation," she said. "Qantas takes a firm line on any allegation of misconduct and a full inquiry will be conducted."

The head of the international division of the Flight Attendants Association of Australia, Michael Mijatov, declined to comment on the matter.

However, the union's website reveals continuing staff grievances over recent changes in accommodation in a number of overseas ports, including the Bonaventure Hotel, which some workers say is in an unseemly part of town with high crime.

The Tokyo brawl happened over the Easter weekend in March. The incident resulted in a flight being cancelled, while another service was delayed by 90 minutes.

Caption :CARTOON: by CATHY WILCOX



Headline: Fight path grounds Qantas cabin crew
Author: Darren Goodsir
Edition: First
Section: News and Features

[qfcsm]

For everyone's information and I realise this is a little off topic:

The Captain at the centre of the Narita punch-up incident has been dismissed!

Guess a lot will be eating humble pie now....!

[surfside6]

So why is his name still in the CIS e-mail contact list?

[peanut pusher]

Why mention it if you can't say what happened in this great reportable incident ?
Was it the Thai crew member who has the SYD CSS on sexual harrasment in the conversation or just the same old bag the crap out of LHR base because you can.
Maybe it was the detour around Manchester story another fool made up? How about the 4 Aus crew who were sacked in LHR? No, please facts only no more BS tow truck, still can't see what all the fuss is about.
Contractors have a 11 month contract, contract finishes and the deal in completed as per the contract. Was the contract cut short = no, were they told it was a contract for 11 months = yes, were they told it was a full time job = no. Most returned to the airport jobs and MAM casual.
Funny did you know most of the mam casuals who did the 11 month contract were the casuals trained to work in our industrial dispute 3 years ago and would of scabbed on L/H at the drop of a hat back then.
Why is it most Aus based crew think crew came to LHR for the company, I came here for myself, I couldn't give a crap about the company.
I have a small export business in Thailand and have family in England.
I weighed it up like this, 2 years going to the places I want to or fighting a loosing battle at home flying to nowhere.
The company would of opened the base with 100% UK nationals, so it suited me for 2 years to go to LHR,
Fact, of the 180 UK hired crew, 70% are aussies with Uk passports or family history enabling a work visa.
Nothing against my home port just have to play the game with the cards your delt and not the ones you wish or I'd be back home in a flash.
Just my thoughts on a few things.

[surfside6]

I hope the company knows about your extra curricula activities.Company policy requires that you inform them.If you haven`t you will be in trouble you naughty boy

[peanut pusher]

Put it in writing and submitted it!!!
Didn't hear a thing for months and finally I followed it up and they couldn't of cared less. I surpose if I was working part time for another airline it would be differant.

[Pro Golfer 69]

Anyone heard whether this extra crew member in economy on the 747-400's is a possiblity?

[surfside6]

But not probable.Fuel cost blowouts mean that QF is looking for more cost cuts.An extra crew member is an added cost they can currently do without.

[firepussy]

Bit Late Bizzi Boi.This was done about 6 posts ago

["F" module]

hey str
if you are as pro active as you say you are with the media -why not ring this journo from the SYD morning herald -direct him to this website (and the AO EBA thread) and this particular post. there are probably at least 3 stories sitting here waiting with the copy already written!
he doesn't appear to be a Qantas "cash for comment " lacky yet.


towtruck...you're starting to sound like part of the problem....

galleyhag is right -the theme we have to develop is THE RETURN of jobs to Australian shores - to achieve this we have to be prepared to trade off. L/H crew have to become more competitive in the market place. This can be achieved without giving away our jobs to third world competitors. We'll cancel New Zealand's global debt -but don't give them our Y/C positions!!

I heard 14 kiwis quit en mass this week - what have we got to do to convince the others to fly with Air New Zealand??

[str]

F Mod - Do you have a name of the journo? Will definately contact them..AGAIN! I have already been mailing them daily, as I said before, QF have a big advertising budget and the papers don't want to risk losing advertising $$$

Its not just me who should be doing this though, everyone who is not happy with the exportation of our jobs needs to write also.

Agree with Galleyhag too, we have to agree to trade off conditions to keep jobs onshore.

[Bizzi_Boi]

Firepussy,

Just thought I would make it clear.

The posting I put up was actually an extract from the Sydney Morning Herald Newspaper website dated June 16th.

We are ALL aware of the incident and aware info was posted 6 posts ago as you stated Firepussy. But I was bringing to ppl's attention the fact it has hit the newspapers and interesting to hear the media perspective.

Hope that makes things a little clearer that I wasn't thinking I had fresh info *yawn*

Anyone who wants to know the name of the journo from SMH, his name is Darren Goodsir.

Bizzi_Boi

[Pro Golfer 69]

Bizzi_Boi

I think you may have a reading disability the previous post is the one from the Hearld and it clearly states the author.

[qcc2]

before you make comments that LH crew are not competetive in ther international market, pls do your home work. i can assure after doing my home work qf lh crew are extremely competetive.
even after all the cuts the US carriers had qf lh crew are still cheaper then their lowest no frills carrier. i dont want to even think about all the european carriers, which most have much higher wages and a fully funded government pension plan. asian carriers (sq, cp) are not much different, they may have a slightly smaller wage scale but get a lower tax rate, more crew, full health benefits and many other subsidies and pensions. other carriers like malaysian, garuda, southern china are part of developing countries and get heaviliy subsidised by their respective governments. we will never ever be able to compete with those carriers. air new zealand cabin crew earns less then qf lh crew but significantly more then qf akl based crew (thats why every time there is an opening now in air nz akl based qf lh jump)and it took one mr. norris (new head of COM bank) to bring back the airline from a total disaster (guess who had a major input in that disaster, yes one lesley grant, shadowed as always by a certain julie lampert-whatever). and most of you would have noticed qf has been the dumping ground of all those managers from ba and an/air nz which got retrenched, fired because of their incomptence. aren,t we lucky in qf. :E

[gigs]

do any mamers out there have a view on the new av status.ie if you elect to work an a day when qf forcast they dont need you and you then decide say the night before or on the day that since its not happening you want to change to a day off qantas now asks for 48 hrs notice. i just cant help that think that qantas are now by combining paid reserve span with lots of new casuals so,thin work therefore many will elect av status/unpaid standby,justifyed before by an offer of work being made/ to achieve work cause with 12 day compulsary mthly staggered its more difficult to get a 2nd job to generalise so,are qantas getting reserve for free????that is min 48 hrs on a percentile of staff in casuals for free? may be bizzi boy what i was refering to on a prev.post. any views would be valued..thanx cheers gigs typist try hard.

[gigs]

yow midnight youll be right just try reading real hard

[Bizzi_Boi]

Gigs,

Check your private msg's.

Cheers,

Bizzi_Boi

[johnny utar]

Howdy fellow flighty's,

just seeing if anyone knows whether the Perth SH base is full now after the conversion of MAM casuals to fulltime??? or will they need more FA's after activating the internal transfers????

any info would be greash...:D :D

[GalleyHag]

Not really sure, but as a side note Perth SH is turning into quite a good little base from a flying prespective (clearly due to the reduction of the Perth LH base).

It has gone from a base where next to no trips were available to basically all trips for the month of July, mainly Japan and Singapore. Looking at the July bid book there are days where all their inter WA flights (which is all they use to do) are gone for Perth based crew and these have now been incorporated into longer trips for the eastern state bases.

Clearly this will not be financially viable long term as thats why the Perth base was opened in the first place but who knows the 29 LH crew start training on 1 July so they may see a return of their traditional flying in August.

Also no word yet on where regional progression will go, but if they were that short in Perth you would think they would be given start date's and Perth ASAP and they havent.

[disegaged]

And the latest development straight from the horses mouth:

"The current round of restructuring will indeed mean some rationalisation in Customer Services. While the new cabin crew direct report model is working well, by streamlining or eliminating tasks of low significance the opportunity to reduce Cabin Crew Managers and Cabin Crew Team Managers by around 50% is clearly evident. This reduction will begin as early as July 2005”

So round and round we go - does this mean the Line Managers are coming back...???

[Butterfield8]

Very interesting..where did that info come from?Sounds like managementspeak.

[qfcsm]

Hey I just got back and heard the same thing.
What's going on?
Feel sorry for all those new recruits to the QF slaughterhouse.
Guess the job at the bank wasn't so bad after all!!!

[jettlager]

mmm................visitors..............

[GalleyHag]

Whats the bet CSM's get loaded up with even more work.

[disegaged]

BF8 - yep you are right!

Little bits of paper left conveniently for the curious....

Suspect some of those affected may be moving to the "dark side".

As I said, round we go. Time for the re-engagers to become disengaged!

[handgun fellashio]

When Dixon goes..the new broom will sweep a whole level of mismanagement out the door.It will be about the sixth lot I have seen off.The best part is seeing them in a shopping centre or restaurant after they have left.Contrite little swines with no more authority.You can imagine how the conversation goes.
Borghetti eats at a restaurant near me.When I am there I only drink water just in case ,with a few reds under my belt,I let loose.Doesn`t pay to be alcoholically stupid.

[disegaged]

You know it kind of reminds me of an ad on tele.
Goes like this:

Dixon and Borgetti are sitting in a truck eating a stale pie.

They are looking through the window of a lovely restaurant at several crew sitting at a table sipping exquisite wine and eating a la carte.

Dixon says "Do ya rekon they know what they are eating and drinking?"

Borgetti replies "Na, they wouldn't have a clue".

Then Dixon pipes up and say "Cripes Johnie, that bottle they are pouring has a QF logo on it".

Borgetti says "Yeah but don't worry, it's the same cheap crap we serve our customers".

"Phew" Diko exclaims, "Thought it might be a label reserved for the executive few".

"Nah mate. And the oily stuff they are eating is leftover from the pony tail's restaurant. Again the same no cost garbage we feed our pissengers".

"Ok Jon Jon. You are the best. Take another million a year and screw some more employees and customers. By the way, why the hell are we sitting in this truck eating pie...????"

[easternboy]

Please to see management turnover not only effects us. Im on my 6th cabin crew manager since joining some 5 years ago. The current manager re-writes the EBA whenever she feels like it or needs to address a resource issue which is happeing every day lately.

[qcc2]

the rumor of the 3000 vr are getting stronger. watch whatever john borghetti has to say on june 29th in his briefing.
:E

[andie74]

gigs,
yeah i have to agree. and recently i have heard a few others also saying the same thing. i guess this month bcos its been particularly quiet it has really high-lighted itself as a valid issue. it seems a bit unfair/unjust that we are expected to give 48 hrs notice to go non-AV on an AV day (ie. no AV span allocated as you were talking about), when we arent getting paid a cent to sit around at home for 24 hrs just incase we get a call....and this month there were a lot of those days. basically id say youre right -with so many causals now, many casuals are electing to stay available without the AV span and so therefore there must be an fair amount of 'free home reserve' going on??

my question though is at wot point is a 'casual' job is no longer truly a casual job??? .....particularly when the rules keep changing as the months pass. I like being casual, and have chosen in my previous work to also be a casual employee bcos thats what suits me best lifestyle wise- however.... it seems that the more that these little things keep coming up we are becoming less and less 'casual' - at what point are we no longer truly considered casual anymore? when there are so many conditions applied to the days/hours that we can/cant work, where does it stop i wonder???

[gigs]

at what point is a job a job. i thought you got paid for a job. originaly av status meant qantas offered you work so you could ring at any time to reverse av to non av.that was because we are casual. how bizarre would it be to on day 2 of a 48 hr period go sick and supply a certificate! cant help but feal a little like kunta kintae.my fear is all months may be now a little like this. cheers gigs.

[jesski]

i was just sorting through my uni emails, which usually get forwarded on to my regular email. Next to the old invitation for a medical was one that didnt get forwarded to my email (and therefore remained undiscovered until now) was an invitation for a security check! I therefore havent done this, yet i have still received an email saying congrats ur now on a shortlist. should i wait until i get contacted again re: job prospects to do the security check or should i just do it now? or if anyone could help me with the number of claire (or anyone) at recruitment so i can ask them?
im getting really sick of forking out all this money....... my credit card is maxed out thanks to qantas, and not from going places!

[NZKID]

I am a MAM causal based in BNE, hope to be made permanent one day
If we keep making ourself AV, when QF have made us NRQD or we are NON AV QF will stop giving up PAID AV spans. after all QF are running a business and this would be a huge cost saving exercise for them
The only other complaint that I have is that we as MAM causals are unable to NOW apply for permanent employment via any other site. I had completed stage 1 and 2 of interview process when I was offered the position with MAM. Then QF asked me to go for a medical and I explained had already completed one for MAM, still they required me to provide another medical, as no cost to myself thought WHY not.
About 2-3 weeks latter I got a letter advising that I was now unable to be coincided for employment via CV.COM or any other forum as QF have their own internal process for MAM.
ONLY 35 MAM employed in the last how long ?.
I like many other have been on the short list for QF twice, once for 6 month and once for 18 months.
My question is
As MAM are we going to be coincided WITH, BEFORE or AFTER the short listers?
:sad:normal

[Cart_tart]

jesski,
i'd wait to do your security check until they actually want to employ you. I have forked out $$ a number of times for a check and never got a job with them. The security check is for your asic card, and if you don't get a job, you don't get an asic therefore you should get your money back. I've never seen a dime! They owe me nearly $200, which i'm sure i'll never see!
so yeah - wait!

[andie74]

i think its probably true that with so many more casuals on board now that there is going to be alot of unpaid home reserve- i dont want this to sound harsh or nasty bcos thats not my intention at all.... but unfortunately too many people have the opinion that 'they are just so happy/thankful' to be in this business of flying that they are prepared to do anything- and that includes making themselves AV even when there is no AV span allocated for days on end. doing this occasionally i guess isnt such a bad thing (if your happy to be on call for the whole 24 hrs) but if it happens too much then i fear it will be taken advantage of.

the attitude of 'im just happy to be a F/A bcos i've wanted to do this job since i was a kid....so therefore i'll break the rules, do anything that crewing asks me to do etc, etc' only undermines the rights and working conditions of everyone else involved- not only other casuals but also full-timers too. i can never understand why people dont see that??? having a 'i'll do anything' attitude only puts industrial relations back 100 yrs-yeah in the short term it might mean that an individual gets a few more hours than others, but in the long run it doesnt benefit anyone (except maybe the company you work for of course). ive had brief conversations with a few casuals about this sort of thing and they dont seem to get it?

i too am grateful to be in a job such as this, its a great job most of the time, there are much harder and worse paid jobs around (ive had some of them previously!) and in general i really like the people i work with day to day- BUT im not prepared to 'DO ANYTHING' for any job, or just for the 'money' either. i wont do things that im not supposed to just to benefit my own purposes- in the end it all comes back to bite you on the 'proverbial'!

[jettlager]

andie74,

you have made some very good points re the "bigger picture".

The casualisation of the workforce is part of john howard's long term political agenda and will see the average worker's conditions and living standards decline in Australia as we have never seen before.

Minimum wages, no loadings or penalty payments etc, etc.

It is an out and out attack on the middle class the results of which will leave us with a US style social structure.

We will end up with the society we deserve unless those with so much to lose wake up and smell the coffee...........................

Jettlager

[gigs]

mr jettlager id be interested in your opinion regards the unpaid reserve. it is in a nut shell to cut a long story short./48 hrs be close to home 2 hours from airport max.bag ready to go anywhere in the network 24hrs a day in that 48hrs. at the end of that 48hrs you have provided this service for free unless you have a call out. that is you are a trained unpaid casual employee at the complete direction/control of qantas 24 hours a day for,,wait for it .nics........andie 74 i totally agree with what you wrote,i believe many casuals just dont get it. cheers gigs

[Gomam]

yes there are certainly a lot of casuals who work much more than they should. making themselves available when non req, but also sucking up to crewing.

unfortunately there are always gng to be people who will break the rules ie- working more than 6 days straight, doing duties that are just not legal!!!!!

people know who they are, and these people must remember that casuals are exactly the same as permanents, so stick to the rules!!!

you are just ruining it for yourselves, and other casuals for permanent employment

final note, i wouldnt hold your breathe re full time employment qf have a trick up their sleeve for casuals closer to the end of the year. if i was u i would be lookin for a 2nd job!

[gigs]

you goman what is the trick,,,id love it if you could tell us.for me i shall have financial probs if qantas start mucking us around. thanx gigs

[andie74]

Gomam,

me too re the financial problems!
you able to give us some more details? it would certainly be appreciated. i do have another job but its bcoming increasingly difficult to keep my other bosses happy bcos of the 12 days thing- so i have been considering just giving it away (my other job that is) its not the best job in the world (bit boring) so no great loss to leave, but its close to home and the pay is not bad....now im wondering wot Qantas has hidden up there sleeve???? if you know about something in the works can you share it with us?
i really cant understand this morally corrupt/secretive/hidden agenda, attitude that some companies have in dealing with honest, hard working employees?

andie74

[Bizzi_Boi]

Hmmm,

Well I think we would all like to know. It is not like we work for MAM coz we are rich and bored and need a job to stimulate our minds. We work coz this is the job we want and we do it for the money.

So if there is something that Q A N T A S and MAM have planned, well it's better we all know now, so we can prepare for it.

Don't be shy in coming forward with info.

Bizzi

[amongthestars]

I have no problem making myself AV when I am put down NREQ. I have to make a living and have bills and rent to pay. Majority of the time I get called up anyway. I also have no problem ringing up crewing and asking them for work, I want them to know my name and know that I am ready to work at the drop of a hat. The EBA is coming up soon anyway so maybe that will bring a few answers about, along with the FAAA MAM meetings next month. Since it has been so quiet lately, you really have to do what you have to do to get work, people should stop making others feel guilty about doing it. This month has been very slow, and I know a heap of single mothers with 2 or more kids that are suffering as a result of it.
Just a thought.
amongthestars

[GalleyHag]

Maybe Goman is referring to a new clause QF want in the next EBA, which is being discussed at present. No new permanent recruitment into Short Haul. This clause will clearly effect MAM casuals as there will NEVER be an opportunity for permanent employment (which of course you were all made fully aware of when you applied), furthermore this will effect junior crew in terms of bidding. But if this clause gets in it will be voted up, just like the dropping of the time zone restriction and any other amendments QF wish to make to the short haul EBA.

["F" module]

"Ex Qantas chairman Gary Pemberton was today asked about his spectacular success with the Billabong surfwear company.
"Look, James Strong and I initiated the business strategy of ripping the guts out of a once great Australian company. Our philosophy was basically - sell off the farm ,the family silver and all the employees. Taking costs out of the business rather than growing it was our philosophy.
This unimaginative business philosophy still holds true today. Australian senior mannagement are too stupid to generate profits so we generate our bonuses from cannabilising past successes. These days, senior manangement would much prefer to sit around drinking red wine and humming Peter Allen tunes.
Under the present Qantas management team , the plan is still to remove all 39,000 employee jobs offshore.
Now that ultimately translates into 39,000 UNEMPLOYED AUSTRALIANS. And what do you do when you're unemployed in this great country?? YOU GO TO THE BEACH!!
To do that you need good quality swimwear.
Enter Billabong . A win / win for the shrewd businessman!"
Another example of great Australian business practices at work......

[gigs]

galley hag sometimes your contributions are interesting to read and other times you just cant help but show a catty side. qantas has ,depending on when you apply always told casuals that this will lead to full time employment. in the case of some new casuals only an indication has been entered into and then followed by an application form in the mail to invite you to apply for full time employment.........qantas appear to like to play staff off each other so i guess your exactly what they want. m8 not everyone can do the join eastern thing,although i do think everyone loves flying and what they do and to that end being a casual flight attendant does not mean your instantly a scab looser or of inferior intelligence....try droping your attitude. happy landings gigs

[nickmelb]

hey gigs

i think that galleyhag is on the mark. sorry there. But GH is always full of great information, and she is a great help as well. i dont think she referred that casuals are scab labour at all!:ok:

most new people circa 2003/04 where told its only casual it will never lead to full time. yes there are some who were told it may lead to full time, but was never put into the contract!

anyways just my 2 cents, if they make u non req keep it that way i say. they will ring if they need u

otherwise u could always go to another airline which offers permanent employment. QF aint the be all and end all, im sorry to say, and people need to start realising this!

[gigs]

that contribution has really helped enlighten me thanx so much nic from mel..................what is it your actually trying to say?......are forget it but..i can say that we all have a different percepion of reality and your opinion is yours.regretfuly we all have to live in reality.written word and verbal word all have a say in contract etc etc. incidentaly in so far as your saying almost like it or leave it well thats great isnt it...good luck to you im sure your post was meant in a positive manner and you do whatever, whatever! your employer instructs you to. cheers gigs

[Bizzi_Boi]

This topic has finally been given the attention it has always deserved.

Just to point out, that even though yes many of us from the 2003/2004 intake where told that our position was casual and would not lead to full time employment. One has to be realistic and understand that in the bigger scheme of things, the following has occured despite what Q A N T A S has previously said :

* 32 MAM casuals commence full time employment July 1 2005

* New MAM casuals in 2005, where told that after 12 months with MAM, that they are invited to submit an expression of interest / apply for full time employment.

* Current MAM casuals have been sent letters of expression of interest for full time, for the new financial year.

Yes, now before you all start freaking and getting ready for the POST REPLY button.

The point I'm intending to make is that this is proof that Q A N T A S has said one thing and yet doing another. And we know this is the theme of the Giant Roo, and I'm not for one minute suggesting that more full time positions will come about, but to ease the negativity that people keep posting re: MAM.

Yes, crew are worried about the amount of hours available and they have ever right to, let them post their concern here after all we should be using this as support forum to provide information and to share experience of the situation.

Now on the topic of changing status from NREQ to AV. After talking to crewing, I was told that NREQ status means that you will not considered if work is available, it's not like when we first started when they where understaffed. There is a lot of crew on the books, and making yourself AV is the only way to pick up work when you need it. I have tended to pick up work on AV days and you need to have a business perspective understanding to the whole equation.

Yes QF makes you NREQ 7 days out as they forecast not requiring crew, but we all know the nature of the business. They can not then turn around 2 days out and change your status once things change, because what system could they use, who would they choose to change status??.

Afterall the crew member they may pick to change to AV SPAN may have decided to pick up work at their 2nd job because they are NREQ (if they have one) and therefore create more work for crewing to have to find a suitable available crew member. So look at it realistically, they need surplus of crew and keep their budget in check, so they can only work with what they know and that is the pool of crew who have chosen AV status. Forecasting is one of the most difficult things to do especially when dealing with people, as there is many factors at play, schedules, sick leave, delayed flights, aircraft upgrades etc. They can only factor so much in 7 days out on your availability.

So to further expand on that point above. To keep your job casual and to allow you to have flexibility to work another job, then we want to keep the NREQ status and the freedom to change to AV. If we loose that, that will further restrict us. We have to work with the way the business operates.

I wish people would keep this forum as a positive way to express concern rather than a negative bashing of Q A N T A S and MAM.



Bizzi

[OZcabincrew]

Hi!

"i'd wait to do your security check until they actually want to employ you."

Jesski, if you haven't done your security check, they won't want to employ you, you won't get to that stage, they'll just choose people that have already done all of that stuff and are just waiting for the call. I would get it done.

Unfortunately the $$$ side of it is just a part of the whole process. It's just annoying that some groups that have gone through haven't had to pay a cent for medicals and security clearances while the next group has, but its just luck of the draw i guess.

Good luck!
Oz

[GalleyHag]

gigs

I apologise if you took offence to my post it certainly was not intended to offend.

However the reality and facts are that you are employed by an external labour hire company as a casual flight attendant. Qantas at no stage would ever guarantee that you would be offered permanent employment. If you wanted a position as a permanent flight attendant maybe you should have applied to an airline that offers such opportunities I dont think you are in a position to complain you would have clearly known when you joined MAM what the position involved and the MAM website states:

"Flexibility is the key to becoming a Casual Flight Attendant.You are required to be on-call 24 hours a day, 7 days per week. This will obviously include weekends and public holidays (Christmas and Easter). There is no guarantee of hours, as these will be determined by flight demand and existing staffing levels. This will often occur at short notice."

(amongthestars, maybe those single mothers should have paid careful attention to the section that stated no guarantee of hours before they signed the contract.)

As I have stated before the last time permanent positions were made available in short haul was early 2003. Now two and half years later they are making available a further 32 positions. So the chances of ever obtaining a permanent position are slim, more so once the governement takes control of the senate and industrial relation reform occurs.

Just for your reference I started with Eastern as I refused to take a casual or fixed term position and remained on the Qantas short list. After the collapse of Ansett I was offered a permanent position with Qantas. That was my choice as I wanted a career as a flight attendant, which is not possible when you are a casual.

[gigs]

great post bizzi but i guess as nic from mel puts it we should look for a full time job with another airline then when a problem of federal award level proportions happens we should then look for a full time job at another airline then if a problem with our conditions cramp our style we should look for a job at another airline. but we shouldnt even be here because as galley hag says "never stict his head out for a mam casual".good one, so positive.......if only thier powers were to be used for good then maybe things would be better and casual employment would not continue to denude the conditions of full time employees.

[Bizzi_Boi]

Gigs,

I understand your point, BUT I refuse to look at working for another airline. I enjoy the product of Q A N T A S. I like our destinations, I enjoy delivering the service, I like the flexibility of being able to working J or Y class. Varied aircraft. In one day you can easily work on 3 different aircraft types. And may I add, overall being casual works for me. I refuse to let ppl make MAM out to be negative.

Both MAM and Q A N T A S are running a business, the business of staffing flights and they need casual crew for flexibility. This is a testing time we are in. And it annoys me when full timers bag out our situation. Some compassion would be appreciated, WE knew what causal meant, WE understand our contract, WE know what the MAM websites states. People who post on this forum to degrade our intelligence about our choice to work for MAM, your comments are of no assistance and I urge you to refrain from negativitity.

We are just using this forum as a way to express concern and to hear how others are dealing with the situation.

Remember that MAM casuals tend to be the most appreciative crew, given we accept what duties we get, what ever destinations they give us. I could open up a whole bag of worms about how much full timers complain about their roster, how many overnights, how many regionals etc. The nature of crew is so negative, spare a thought for those who are willing to work. That is what we are, willing and able when it is available.

It is quite amazing to hear so many CSM's praise casuals for their efforts at work, and their positive attitudes. I don't think I need to expand on that one at all.

Bizzi

[gigs]

g/hag subject of discussion is 48hrs av means you should be able to change it when ever you want//this is backed so far from my reaserch by law...........for your info g/hag ive twice declined a selection process for full time as i dont want to relocate..........im not,therefore, complaining about my type of employment only my conditions that is all this thread is about............in initial interview m.alex...this for many of my staff has lead to full time......qantas in training school......youll be full time in 6 mths..........interview for fultime a little while latter....sorry took over southern......letter follows mam casuals shall always be the feeder for full time.....interviews for per then as you say latter in a few yrs interviews for per .this year letter to invite you to apply for full time....now not withstanding anything to the contray i think there is a message here......this for your info and,as stated im happy with casual pls try to be articulate and see the big picture its conditions here and we affect yours big time. cheers gigs oh and no offence at all taken.

[GalleyHag]

OK I can see where this discussion is headed, the poor hard done by casual crew and the whinging permanent crew.

I have very few problems with MAM casuals on board but it never ceases to amaze me on prune that the only people that think they do a good job are MAM casuals, Auckland, Bangkok and London based crew a bit of a pattern developing here in your own minds I think. I never see any real difference in the level of service or committment between permanent and casual crew.

Your conditions are not my problem as I choose not to go that road, therefore I will leave it at that.

[gigs]

even as a csm as your posts indicate our working conditions could well still at some time be a problem for you galley hag i dont whinge either my posts are to invite positive feed back from other folk to assist me in my situation you still appear to show attitude and a divide and well leave it at that..cheers gigs

[jesski]

hmmmmmmm
thanks guys
does anyone have a number i can contact recruitment on?
thanks
jess

[nickmelb]

gigs

it wasnt a stab at u or anyone ok so if i offended im sorry. I know of a few people who decided not to whinge and instead have been proactive and interviewed with other airlines, and now are working as permanent employees.

Thing is its just not virgin blue that is here in australia, there are many overseas as well u know.

i wish u all the best with the application for "possible future employment with the qantas group"

:sad: :ooh: :8

[gigs]

nicky you dont offend the only thing you are telling me i dont know is what your "whingeing" friends have done.........again this is like eps ie. read the question! this thread is about a situation that exists for casual employees which requires them to provide a service to their employer( who they are very happy working for) in a unique situation for no valuable consideration.ie a legal term meaning in this case nothing.an airline who can achieve free reserve will affect all even the great galley hag!............so all i can see here is that you and others are imparting their views on casual airline employment while that airline sneaks in more bad stuff......something many permanent staff complain about but,is obvious here how it happens....ie..you and many like you are out of their depth......... where did you read or assume that i had applied or,ever appied for full time gainfull employment with qantas to wish me luck with that application???? the only other major issue really discussed here has been the fair and equal distribution of work.something that perm.staff have a process for we,dont and with all due respect to all 3 parties can be at times counter productive for each involved for a variety of reasons....i hope this places something into your head that this is not about your opinion of what casual employment is or what casuals want need or expect from that employment ... as stated to g/hag try to be articulate and read the posts your assumptions are showing you to look foolish. cheers gig

[qcc2]

must say f module a rather good sense of humor badly needed in todays qf environment. management has rather been quit lately so lets see who is left standing after july:E

[tow-truck]

QANTAS had reportedly started axing jobs ahead of a possible profit downgrade this week.

Fairfax newspapers reported 14 QantasLink check-in staff at Newcastle Airport were told they would be out of jobs in two weeks on Monday after Jetstar outsourced its passenger service contract to baggage handler Skystar.
Talk has mounted that Australia's biggest airline has plans to cut thousands of jobs and expand its overseas staff base in a bid to cut costs.

The Australian Services Union says the Newcastle job losses could be the start of a large job culling program.

And the talk of a profit downgrade has increased with Qantas chief financial officer Peter Gregg arranging an analysts briefing on Friday on International Financial Reporting Standards

########### AO HAVENT EVEN SIGNED THEIR EBA AND THEY ARE PLANNING THE OVERSEAS BASES, THE ARROGANCE IS INCREDIBLE.........#########

[peanut pusher]

Downgrade, lay-offs ahead at Qantas
By Scott Rochfort
June 22, 2000

Qantas has already started laying off permanent staff as speculation mounts the airline could issue a profit downgrade as early as Friday.

As talk mounts that the airline has plans to slash thousands of jobs and expand its overseas labour base in order to cut costs, unions have already accused Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon of breaking his pledge that the expansion of Jetstar would not result in job losses at Qantas.

On Monday, 14 QantasLink check-in staff in Newcastle were told they could be out of a job within two weeks after Jetstar outsourced its passenger service contract to its baggage handler at the airport, Skystar.

"All 14 of those have been met with and advised that we will work with them as to who's redundant and whether any of them have an interest of redeployment within the group," said Qantas's general manager of people, Kevin Brown.

Mr Brown denied Qantas had broken its pledge that no jobs would be lost as a result of Jetstar.

"What we said to the unions nearly 14 months ago was that Jetstar during start-up would not result in the loss of jobs in Qantas.

"Now here we are 14 months on from that commitment and you know it is a mature business. It's flying, it's growing, and naturally, in some locations, as parts grow and shrink and grow elsewhere, you're going to have those transition points.

"We're transitioning, the result of that is that not everything fits as neatly as it might," he said.

Mr Brown said Qantas "never said jobs would not be lost over time" after Jetstar's introduction.

But Australian Services Union assistant national secretary Linda White said Qantas had broken its word. "All the promises made about nobody in Qantas being made redundant is a farce," she said.

Ms White also warned the loss of 14 QantasLink staff in Newcastle could be the start of a larging culling process.

"It's the thin end of the wedge. First it's Newcastle and then it's everywhere else. The promises we had have basically gone out the window."

Labor's federal member for Newcastle, Sharon Grierson, said the outsourcing of check-in staff by Jetstar could represent a major risk to security.

"If these people [Skystar staff] are going to get paid such lousy money, what confidence can we have that these people are really going to deliver."

Chances of a potential profit downgrade by Qantas have been heightened by the airline's chief financial officer Peter Gregg pencilling in a briefing with analysts on Friday on International Financial Reporting Standards.

Macquarie Equities issued a note two weeks ago warning that the airline could face a $700 million write-down from changes in how it treated its frequent flyer scheme on its books. It also said it "would not be overly surprising" if the airline was hit with a $100 million-$150 million redundancy bill.

Qantas is also expected to score a major breakthrough in its bid to hire more lower-paid Asian staff through its Australian Airlines subsidiary next week. The airline's 310 cabin crew are expected to vote for a deal next Wednesday which will allow the airline to access foreign crews.

When asked about Qantas's plans to source Asian labour, Qantas's Kevin Brown said: "We shouldn't be constrained given our network of where we fly, and given what our competitors have available to them …

Calling Qantas's approach to unions as "firm but fair and definitely tough", Mr Brown said: "We have to create a competitive business that'll create job security."


Check before you fly

- Fears of Qantas profit downgrade as soon as Friday

- QantasLink loses Jetstar check-in contract in Newcastle; 14 face redundancy

- Airline unions' nationwide day of action on Monday

- Qantas says line on unions "firm but fair and definitely tough"

- Australian Airlines flight attendants expected to vote for agreement next week to allow airline to access foreign crews freely

[beachwave40]

there is alot more involved in that ,then what you think.

[nickmelb]

hey gigs

yes i understand your frustration re the allocation of work, it is easy for this to be organised with full timers.

unfortunately with the casuals its not so easy, and im sure in the faaa meeting next month this issue should be brought up. IT doesnt make sense that some people are still doing 120+hours per month, and others are doing only 40 hours.

it could be that some people are making themselves more available then others, but i dont think that matters this month, as most people are being made non req.

i hope i am making senseeeeee!

[easternboy]

I totally agree NO bonus payments should be made when people are loosing their jobs.

I also feel this is a sign of things to come. If QF announce a profit downgrade this will be their excuse to lay-off even more staff which has always been on their wish list anyway.

Im not surprised the Qantaslink staff at Newcastle have been let go, between eastern and sunstate we have very few flights through this port now and Jet* have always had their own ground staff therefore this announcement shouldnt come as a shock.

[QF skywalker]

Easternboy - The staff at NTL airport actually wear both the QF and JQ uniform. They check-in both airlines and just change uniforms depending on what they are allocated that day.

The new ground contract for NTL is with Skystar who will provide their own staff.

This will leave only a couple of the 14 staff employed by QF/JQ left to despatch and checkin the QFLINK services.

[easternboy]

Oh ok wasnt aware of that.

Still with the reduced number of QFLink services Im not surprised they are sourcing a cheaper option for ground handling out of this port, just like they did in Sydney, Melbourne etc

[andie74]

yeah i wholeheartedly agree- the allocation of hours really does need to be addressed by the FAAA. i dont see how its a fair & equitable system when particularly this month you dont even get work on your mandatory days? i was made NREQ for 2 of the 3 mandatory days, and i know that others have been given work on those days when its not their mandatory days?? - not their problem of course, but doesnt make sense why crewing would do this?

also anyone able to clarify this? i thought the trade off for Casuals being required to give 12 days min, with 3 of those being mandatory, was that we were supposed to be given AV spans for at least those 12 days?? i cant remember where or why ive got this into my head??? others have said no thats not the case- and so i guess i must've got it wrong?? ive checked the contract etc and it doesnt state it in there either- anyone know for certain?

gigs im like you -also happy with casual employment as i mentioned in a previous post, and definitely not beating down anyones door desparate for full time work! i choose in my last job to move from perm to casual bcos it suits me better.

this job and the people are great! am 100% happy to be casual and pick my own days off, being able to work a 4 day week when i want to and know that i can spend time with my partner/friends/family suits me just fine. for me work is not the be-all and end all!

however wots becoming increasingly frustrating is the inconsistancy and the inequality that appears to be going on- and id feel exactly the same no matter wot job i was doing with any other company if i was being treated the same way. its an awfully simplified way to look at things to simply say to people "well you knew you were agreeing to a casual job so if you dont like it - go look elsewhere".

Being casual is one thing..... being taken advantage of is another. isnt this what industrial relations is based on?? not allowing employers to just do what they like when they like. its is NOT ok for ANY company to tell you one thing then do another. i dont understand why anyone would be happy to see a fellow worker be it casual/full-time/part-time be taken advantage of- standing up for yourself isnt whinging. looking at the bigger picture- surely if they can do wot they like with casuals, eventually it has to have a follow on effect and will somehow affect everyones working conditions?

its too easy for people to say "stop whinging" to others in this thread- since when is expecting your employer to treat you with a little respect and fairness whinging?

andie74

[flyingelvis]

andie74: re question of 12 day obligation
i had the same query as you. During my initial training i was told by 'MAM' that QF would prefer our casual job with them to be our main source of income as your main job is the one u r more loyal to. In turn, they realised they needed to provide us with something in return ie. 12 days with min 4 hrs duty
not sooo apparently!!! After querying with crewing and then with MAM, we must provide 12 days however on those 12 days we could be assigned a duty, AV span or not req. However we must have a duty on our mandatory 3 days...which that doesnt seem to be happening either! lets hope next month with school hols and new financial year that hours increase yet again, otherwise time to start scouring mycareer.com

[andie74]

thanks flying elvis.

glad to hear im not going crazy! i was pretty certain i had heard it said about supposedly getting a min 4hrs pay on the 12 min days.....and so much for getting work on your mandatory days eh!

andie74

[Pimp Daddy]

Still with the reduced number of QFLink services Im not surprised they are sourcing a cheaper option for ground handling out of this port, just like they did in Sydney, Melbourne etc

Actually, Melbourne has become more expensive since they had they bright idea of getting rid of Southern.

Since Eastern started in Melbourne they have:

- Contracted Aerocare to despatch aircraft (QF CSOs did it before) - although this may now be cheaper with the QF segmentation.

- contracted Aerocare to clean aircraft on turnaround (Southern crew did them selves)

- contracted Aerocare to marshall aircraft as apparently everybody forgot where the gates were when eastern took over.


Real cheap mate.

[gigs]

youve really got to ask,what is the difinition of casual???i thought it meant some type of flexability,i feel i have zippow. cheers gigs

[Letsfly]

Hi,

I'm a MAM casual in sydney and I have heard that we have to give Qantas 12 days AV a month. However if it is a quiet month Qantas doesn't have to give us any work for the whole month if they want to. They can make us NON AV the whole month!! Don't think it would come to that though.

I think there isn't that much work this month because the 40% of regional flying has gone to Long Haul this month. They are doing most of our Perth returns and Cairns overnights.

Apparently Maurice has been asking Qantas for the last year to give the casuals notice when it is a quiet month so that we can plan holidays or other jobs etc around this time. I guess Qantas doesn't want to say this incase its busy and then they have no casuas!

Did notice the sneaky A4 piece of paper they put up near our mailboxes last week telling us to stop calling crewing about NON AV days and that this month as well as Dec/Jan is always a quiet period!


Letsfly

[GalleyHag]

Sky News are reporting tonight Anderson has one final concern about the Aviation industry and that is the future of Qantas. He is concerned because Qantas does not have enough access to European ports. This surprises me considering Qantas has withdrawn from Rome and Paris in the last couple of years and increased capacity to London.

It bothers me a little though that the current transport minister is concerned for the future of the airline I work for, if he is worried should we be?

Who knows we could all be working for Singapore Air in 5 years.

[Bizzi_Boi]

Yes "Letsfly", I saw the sneaky piece of A4 paper with that message next to our mailboxes.

When I read it, it annoyed me I tell you. I thought it was an insult. I understood the msg, but thought it was not called for in the manner it was written.

Some casuals complained to John Mills and if you have noticed it is not longer on the wall near our mailboxes.

Hmm.

Hours starting to pick up, hang in there kids.

Happy landing.

Bizzi

[lowerlobe]

The problem is that the faaa is not intersted in any media action .

So the question is "what are we prepared to do about it"

With no financial or other support from the faaa ,how about a website?

Instead of responding to antagonistic posts let's come up with ideas! otherwise the company has won.

[Nihao]

Qantas has announced extra flights to Johannesburg and Shanghai - will this assist with bringing down the over staffing in long haul that has been mentioned previously?

Wasn't sure where to put this question so just popped it here - hope you don't mind :O

[gigs]

sorry guys never say the message,what did it say?

[Betsy_1983]

Hi! After reading all this, and other negative threads about Qantas, I just wanted to ask the thousand-dollar question: Should I apply? I was brought up in an aviation family, so I'm not naive about airline politics, but I do want to be international CC, and Qantas seems my only choice.
I know that the interview/recruitment process can be long and frustrating, but if I ever made it into the company would I hate it? Seems like QF are chasing the bottom line, so does that make it an unhappy copmany to work for? Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

[lowerlobe]

Betsy_1983,

Have you thought of emirates?

[gigs]

yow galley hag cant qualify the source or where from but,have heard that anderson has a financial interest in qantas through his other half so i would think another motive is at play in andersons comments.

[str]

Betsy_1983 - even if you did apply to Qantas its highely unlikely you would get in unless you have a Thai, Kiwi or English passport.

Unfortunately the bean counters are outsourcing as many jobs as possible to overseas bases leaving no change of Australians getting a job with the national carrier.

The brand 'Qantas Spirit of Australia' is fast going down the dunny. Mate apply to Emirates or any other international carrier, get some experience. Hopefully when the current management (terms used very loosely) go, the new bosses will realise what a mess has been left and start hiring Australian's again.

About 150 fixed term flight attendants have been let go recently due to the opening of the London base (to be replaced by POMS).

[Pro Golfer 69]

Well it’s all but official. The London cabin crew base will close at the end of 2 years once the Australian based cabin crew contracts expire. A spiraling of costs in the running of the base primarily due to the inability, due to British duty time limitations for cabin crew to roster staff more then 200 hours per bid period has resulted in a major cost blow out. Major continuing inconsistencies in service and administrative costs are also believed to be a factor The cost of running the base is believed to be currently nearly 3 times more then if the patterns were built and flown out of Australia. It is also known that some management would like to see the base closed earlier but the cost to pay out contracts, reallocate crew etc, etc would be too great.

[jettlager]

So QANTAS will be closing the base because EU law prevents it from treating it's LHR based crew like dogs..........?

What a shame.

[cartexchange]

Don't tease me!
I must admit I have heard the rumuors as well.
I don't think they will worry about the Australians that have gone over there if they wanted to close it down they wouldn't even give the Australians contractors a second thought.
If it does happen the Aussies over there wil truly be up sh1t creek, with the surplus crew in LH and SH there is no way they will be able to come back early.
Intersesting times are on their way.......

[Butterfield8]

Friends in the know are acknowledging that the cost savings hoped for from the LHR base have evaporated and that cost blowouts are impacting on the base`s longevity.
Some number crunchers are going to be out of a job after this monumental stuff up.All this angst and drama for nothing.Kingrat will not be happy...no incentive bonus.Does this mean that "they" owe the company money?

[onQ]

From what I understand, the 200 hour figure is correct. However the CAA regulation is that a cabin crew member will not exceed 200 duty hours in a contiuous 28 day period. I think someone must have misinterpreted this as 200 hours per roster - a huge difference....
Back to the drawing board for this rumour!!

[lowerlobe]

I agree as well,GD and the board would have to answer questions from shareholders at the next AGM which I think he would be reluctant to do

[jesski]

can anyone help me out with a number i can contact recruitment on? i was sent an invitation for a medical and one for a security check, yet the security check one didnt come through right... and i cant send off the 'attatched form'.
thanks
jess

[wan2fly]

Hi

If QF are making job cuts why are they recruiting in the UK ?

I have applied and they called me yesterday - then emailed me with a questionnaire and emailed me again today to say they will be in touch within 10 days.... Not sure what to think really !.........

Also are Hudson not doing the recruitment anymore??.

Cheers and I hope UK base will be Ok there are some fantastic crew there..

[handgun fellashio]

How can 86hr slips in Sin be cost effective?Give me a break..someone hasn`t done their homework and has cocked up big time!!!
The reason QF(UK) is recruiting is because of the current attrition rate being higher than anticipated.

[lowerlobe]

There is no way GD will be happy with the slips LHR based crew are getting.We all know how much GD likes cabin Crew

I imagine they are a very temporary thing or the base will be!!

[GalleyHag]

Qantas to Fly to Beijing Latest News

Sydney, 29 June 2005

Qantas today announced it would begin flying between Sydney and Beijing from 9 January 2006.

Qantas Executive General Manager John Borghetti said Qantas would initially operate three weekly services to Beijing and expected to offer daily flights to both Beijing and Shanghai within two years.

"We are delighted to return to Beijing, one of the world's great cities and host to the 2008 Olympic Games," Mr Borghetti said.

"Beijing will be an important destination for the Qantas network and these three weekly services, coupled with the start of a fourth Sydney-Shanghai service in November, will provide our customers with daily non-stop flights to China," he said.

"Travel between China and Australia has increased more than 40 per cent in the past three years and is expected to grow a further 20 per cent in the next 12 months.

"Within two years we expect to offer daily Qantas flights to both Beijing and Shanghai in response to the growing trade relationship between Australia and China and increasing demand for leisure travel in both directions.

"In addition, the Qantas Group currently operates 31 flights each week to Hong Kong," Mr Borghetti said. "This means Qantas passengers can access the rest of China via Beijing, Shanghai and Hong Kong and make connections with local carriers."

Qantas will continue to codeshare on China Eastern services between Sydney and Shanghai to provide a daily link for Qantas customers.

Mr Borghetti said Qantas' new two-class Airbus A330-300 aircraft would operate on all flights to China, allowing Business Class customers to experience the award-winning Skybed.

The new Beijing services are timed to suit customers connecting to and from Australian cities and New Zealand.


Issued by Qantas Corporate Communication (3289)
Email: [email protected]

[Z Force]

So you're employed by MAM and get an application form from Qantas for full time employment. How often does Qantas put MAM flight attendants on and assuming that you have a good work record what are your chances? Do they also take into account how often you make yourself available?

[GalleyHag]

50 MAM casuals converted to permanent in early 2003 and 32 MAM casuals converted to permanent in July, 2005 that has been the total converted in the past 2.5 years.

Sorry cant help you with the other questions.

[andie74]

Z Force

it seems that Qantas sends out these forms every year, it doesnt mean there will ever be an opportunity for full time work- i guess its just so they have a record of how many may be interested should they need to fill spots like the ones that were avail in Perth?? and im assuming your work record would definitely have some kind of bearing if it actually came to the point of offering F/T.

i dont personally think your amount of availability each month should have any bearing at all on your chances of being offered F/T should it come up. This is just my opinion, but i feel that if we have been employed as casuals, then we are casual-meaning we have the flexibility to work the days we choose- and after all thats wot we applied for. should the company decide that they have F/T positions to offer, then each person should be considered based on merit- not simply bcos they were happy to work every day god sends. i usually work 4/5 days a week, but i dont feel that it should give me any advantage over someone who works less, or disadvantage over someone who works 6 on 1 off.

a person may well be working only 3 days a week now, but speaking hypothetically, in a years time that same person may decide that if full time work was offered that they would be interested. in just the same way someone outside of Qantas may only be working part time or casually a few days each week, but may then decide that they want to work full time hours. situtations change. people have different reasons for applying for casual work, some are able to work alot, and others for various reasons (ie kids, other businesses, other commitments, lifestyle) work less. Should that stop them from being considered for full time work if they choose to apply- definitely not. but again...just my opinion! :O

[RaverFlaver]

AO is getting in touch with some people that were on the 11 month contract, as we are recruiting a small number of people.

Cheers

RaverFlaver :)

[RollzRoyce]

Found this on another forum.

The 3 x a week QF15/16 PER-SIN-LHR-SIN-LHR will be dropped effective 25MAR to free up an aircraft to allow daily ops SYD-HKG-LHR-HKG-SYD.

The extra 3 x B744 flights on the SYD-HKG-SYD route will also see the 3 x a week A333 QF187/188 MEL-SYD-HKG-SYD-MEL cancelled from 25MAR as well.

Have heard that the B743 SYD-BOM-SYD flights will become A333 ops with a tech stop at DRW on the outbound sector, possibly as early as JAN06.

Interesting....

Rollz :ok:

[speedbirdhouse]

"Have heard that the B743 SYD-BOM-SYD flights will become A333 ops with a tech stop at DRW on the outbound sector, possibly as early as JAN06."


More international flying leached to the domestics??

[Bad Adventures]

That all makes sense Rollz

QF is losing buckets on the Mumbai run using these weight restricted 747-300 rust buckets. By a tech stop in DRW I gather you mean a refueling stop as the A330-300 does not have the range either. It will be interesting to see, whichever crew does the run whether they will be slipping in DRW, otherwise it's a huge tour of duty. With the QF15/QF16 going and the QF29/QF30 going up to daily, those nice long slips the LHR base crew has been getting in SIN & HKG will be history, what a lovely base that will be to fly out of then! The cancellation of those A330 SYD-MEL-HKG flights will free up aircraft for the additional Shanghai service and the new 3 times weekly Beijing services. The additional JNB service which starts in DEC and is going through Perth for the 1st 3 months is going to be done by 747-300 aircraft. Once that goes to a direct service in FEB 2006 I wonder what's going to happen with the 747-300's then? Over to Australian Airlines maybe or should I say Jetstar international as they will soon be known. Anyway definitely interesting times and thanks for the update.

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

I heard they may be looking at setting a base up in Mumbai.

[Captain.Q]

....everywhere else on the planet.

[qfcsm]

And that will be for cultural reasons.... of course!
QF management must think the world is full of dummies!

Hey it's cool when I get those sales calls from India and they say "I am calling from India. Would you like to buy..." and that's where I cut them off and say "NO THANKS. I only buy from companies that don't sell off their jobs to cheap overseas markets. Take me off your database immediately. GOODBYE." Works a treat!

Wish we could do the same onbaord.... :D

[Jet_Black_Monaro]

NO THANKS. I only buy from companies that don't sell off their jobs to cheap overseas markets. Take me off your database immediately. GOODBYE.

Whilst you may not be prepared to buy from a company with overseas employees, it's clear you are quite prepared to work for one.

You should try and stand by your convictions. Why don't you go into QF and asked them to remove YOU from their database?

From the posts you make, I am sure they would be more than happy to oblige you.

[Don Esson]

Why do so many whinge and whine when we see some of the conditions enjoyed by certain cabin crew?

The following is copied from a web-site that sets out certain of the conditions enjoyed by Qantas Long-Haul flight attendants.

"Qantas Long Haul cabin crew enjoy the following conditions to just name a few: -

* Salaries substantially above the community average for working 22.85 hours per week.
* 6 weeks annual leave per year.
* A preferential bid system.
* A Pay Equalisation Agreement that protects salaries whilst on Reserve.
* A Slipping Formula that guarantees rest provisions whilst upline.
* First Class hotel accommodation whilst on duty.
* A Meal Allowance system that is amongst the best in the world.
* Redundancy arrangements that are far beyond legislated requirements.
* Maternity Leave provisions and Part Time employment access beyond what most employees in Australia enjoy."

That they should be so fortunate, yet they dare to constantly complain. Oh to work for an average of just 22.85 hours a week , or a bit over 4 hours a day based on a five day week, and get six weeks annual leave, not to mention quite long breaks at various cities around the world at their employers expense!

Time to get a grip of yourselves before the world realises just how fortunate and molly-coddled you really are.


:( :(

[jettlager]

Hiya Don,

you might be interested to hear that QF longhaul pilots do the same [averaged out] number of hours work a week and in many cases even less.

Do you know why? I'll tell you.

Its because of the unique circumstances pertaining to our LONGHAUL FLYING occupations.

Would you be happy to see aircrew paying for and finding their own accomodation when overseas.

You my dear friend ought to be the one to, "get a grip".

[Don Esson]

Jetlagger -neither a need nor requirement to get personal but I will say that you appear to not understand.

What I posted had nothing at all to do with pilots. It's not relevant to them in any way. Furthermore, pilots are not vocally critical about their conditions as, if they were, I and many others would say the same about them as I have said about carping flight attendants. Who said any crew has to pay for his or her accommodation? Most workers would settle for a three star hotel let alone a five star! But.....are you a worker?

Here we have proof that the FAAA implies that life is pretty good as a Longhaul flight attendant. From what the union has said, I'd have to agree. If it's not that good, get out and see how things are in the 'real world' - no one is asking you or any of your colleagues to work in your sheltered workshop under conditions that you find unacceptable. Most workers I know would find Qantas's flight attendant conditions and lifestyles something they could only dream about much less achieve. Get real.

[Qwannas]

Most workers would settle for a three star hotel let alone a five star! But.....are you a worker?

What are you TALKING about?

Don, have you ever tried to get some decent sleep on min rest in a three star hotel? I have! It’s difficult to pin point exactly what it was that made it almost impossible to sleep - perhaps it was the noise coming from the band at the pub next door, the fact that the air conditioner sounded like a metroliner taxiing in, or that it just didn’t work properly and the room wouldn’t cool below 30 degrees, could have even been the stench of cigarettes coming from my pillows/blankets .

You’re foolish to come on here and make comments like this.

Being a FA is a difficult job and asking for a nice place to rest while you are away from your home (making profit for your company) isn’t a big ask.

[Captain.Q]

20 years of Intercontinental flying reduces life expectancy on an average of about 10 years.Exposure to cosmic radiation causes chromosomal damage and increases markedly the likelihood of certain cancers developing..particularly in women.Female Flight Attendants find it more difficult to fall pregnant and have a higher rate of miscarriage than the general population.
Qantas pays on average $US35/night across the network for its crew accommodation
Very few crew complain about wages and conditions.What they do complain about is management,particularly at Qantas.Indifferent intimidating threatening and generally incompetent.Talk to your average frequent flyer about QF management.
When was the last time you worked 23 hours straight?Missed christmas,your childs birthday,wedding anniversary.The burden this places on CC partners is enormous.
CC wages reflect this unusual life.
After years of travel so called five star hotel accomodation becomes just another room...a place to shower and sleep.
Mr.Esson walk a mile in someone elses moccassins before you are critical of them

[qcc2]

mr. esson take note of captain q remarks. there are many other issues not mentioned. its unfortunate the faaa has gone to this lentgh to peddle their pathetic lines. crew upline do not appriciate it as discussed at this mornings brekky.
bring on the next election:cool:

[qcc2]

remember the pilots have their own little chatroom via the pilots union website where they can discuss all aspects of their current eba negotiations (as usual they wait until everbody elses eba are done) and other ongoing issues. this chatroom was proposed to the faaa, but they are not interested.
wonder why?:cool:

[gigs]

don im not even long haul and i think you, as old sir joh would say is,wrong wrong wrong. maybe you should try working 4 or what ever hours a day it is at from say 0100 am to 0500 am then stay in a 3 star hotel and then get some room service oh! sorry not available to bad you didnt have time to eat on your duty.get some sleep oh! bit noisey is it. go for a walk,no! the streets are not safe outside in this city.cool just have a drink at 12 noon when the bar is open sorry you dont like to wait or like the bar with the young girls your working with but,would they their folks and or partners like them to stay in these unsafe conditions?

[jesski]

I'm not totally agreeing, because alot of you say, yes i cannot judge your job until i have worked it myself.
But seriously? You make it sound like the worst job in the world! Yeah some of the conditions certainly aren't favourable, but no job is ever going to be perfect. Yes u do have the rights to fight for better conditions but reading these threads just makes some of you seem downright ungrateful. Think back to your old jobs... surely its better than working 40hrs a week behind a checkout....
If its not, go do that then.

[VH-Cheer Up]

With apologies to Greg (Coudabeen) Champion:

Guru Bob says "Walk a mile in someone's shoes before you criticise them".

"That way, when you do criticise them, you're one mile away. And you've got their shoes".

[qfcsm]

For the record:

Yep, generally speaking it's a good well paid job!
That's why we want to keep it – GET IT!
If QF management gets its way it will be a checkout job (no disrespect to the checkout guys who do a great job).

So please stop all the crap about “if you don’t like it, leave” because we do like it. And we will fight to keep it and the conditions that go with it.

Finale:
QF management are terrorists who have set about trying to destroy our way of work. We will never give in to the QF management terrorists.
I will stay here and do just enough to keep my job - no more no less.
Above and beyond is well and truly over and out!

[speedbirdhouse]

Hear, hear on all accounts QFCSM.

I am another who will not succumb or deliver above the absolute minimum required to keep my job.

Qantas management are greedy corporate thugs of the worst kind.

The "visitors" bully, theaten and intimidate in their dealings with cabin crew and as a long time employee I have never seen our work environment so poisonous.

The company and it's employees deserve so much better.

[RaverFlaver]

With regards to hotel accommodation,

At AO we stay in 3*, 4* and a 5* hotel. Have never had any troubles with regard to noise, unsafe areas or the above mentioned....Funnily enough the 5* hotel has the worst beds I have ever come across, and the 3* hotel has the best! Go figure!Not too sure what hotels they have been putting you guys in previously, but I'm guessing they are the same ones we stay in now!

Over paid. No.

Underpaid. No.

Easy work. Yes.

Compared to the standard office job with 8 hour days......I'll take the flying anyday. A 7 hour flight with a 2 hour break on a night flight. Hardly greulling work for the money we get.

Just my perspective.

Have a great day.

RaverFlaver :)

[speedbirdhouse]

AO crew fly single economy class, North-South for 7 hours at a stretch.

QF crew fly 3 class, East-West for 14+ hours at a stretch.

AO crew experience little in the way of time zone differences.

QF crew experience time zone differences of up to 12 hours.

The ONLY hotel QF crew have an issue with is the one in downtown LA [ crackville ]

The hotel is great however the area is unsafe.

[GalleyHag]

Brisbane, 11 July 2005

Qantas today announced it would operate a series of seasonal services between Australia and Korea from 28 December 2005 to 5 February 2006.

Qantas Executive General Manager John Borghetti said the services were being introduced to meet demand during the traditional New Year peak period from Korea.

"The market between Korea and Australia is growing. The number of Korean visitors travelling to Australia has increased by 10 per cent in the last 12 months and by 24 per cent over the past five months," Mr Borghetti said.

"These services will assist in further stimulating traffic between the two countries," he said.

The 18 return services between Brisbane and Seoul will operate on Wednesday, Friday and Sunday using two-class Boeing 767-300 aircraft. The services are timed to suit customers connecting to and from other Australian cities.

Qantas last operated services to Seoul in 1998.

Qantas will continue its codeshare arrangement on Asiana Airlines' daily services from Sydney to Seoul.


Issued by Qantas Corporate Communication (3294)

[capt.cynical]

Korea in jan. & feb. would have to be the coldest most miserable place on earth.
Enjoy the slips bicky tosser ;)

[Galley Guru]

I believe the thai crew are there to boost numbers as the base is slightly short of F/A's. I understand QF recently completed interviews in the UK for a small amount additional crew that are about to go through initial training.

[Bad Adventures]

With all the Frankfurts in open time i'd say that's pretty close to the mark.

[Suelle]

Hi Everyone,

Just wondering if the people who have passed the medical and made it to the shortlist has heard any more from Qantas recruitment about the shortlist/ training start dates ?

suelle

[disegaged]

Hi everyone,

Just applied for a position with the FAAA in their hosiery department.
Anyone else applied or heard any news?

:uhoh:

[jettlager]

Cut and paste from the International FAAA.

4 July 2005 ID 29-05

Attention All Qantas Long HaulFlight Attendants

Crew Accommodation in Los Angeles

We have written to crew on several occasions providing an update on the issue of the Bonaventure Hotel in Los Angeles. The preparation for our listing in theAustralian Industrial Relations Commission is now complete. It has been a painstaking, complex and lengthy process and it has been submitted to the AIRC today.

Crew should continue to exercise extreme care and caution in the downtown area of Los Angeles and in the environs of the Hotel until this matter has been resolved by the Commission. We are confident that when all of the facts are known and assessed by the independent umpire that a solution will be found.
To give you some idea of the process, we have received in excess of 200 copies of individual ICANs outlining serious concerns about the downtown area and the company's selected hotel in Los Angeles. In addition we have also received approximately 100 emails and other reports direct to the FAAA. These reports have required investigation and various submissions being prepared for an internal appeal within Qantas, leading to a dispute in the AIRC.

Some of the more serious reports have included:

a. Several crew have been physically assaulted near to the hotel;

b. Several female crew have been threatened with serious sexual assault and subjected to vicious sexual harassment, both within the hotel itselfand nearto the

hotel;

c. Several crew have been threatened with knives and guns near to the hotel;

d. Several crew have been harassed within the hotel itself;

e. Several crew have been witness to murder scenes near to the hotel;

f. Numerous crew have reported witnessing drug dealing, drug taking and other criminalbehaviour;

g. Numerous crew members have been subject to abuse, harassment and intimidating behaviour by vagrants and gang members, both within the hotel itself andnear

to the hotel

h. Hotel staff have been advising crew not to venture outside of the hotel alone, especially after dark.

Crew have also recognized the apparent contradiction between Qantas Security warnings to staff to"avoid prominent buildings and monuments that could be potential terrorist targets and care should be taken in business districts and popular touristareas", and Qantas management's decision to place crew in this hotel.

Other airlines, including Air New Zealand and United Airlines have removed flight attendants from the Westin Bonaventure due to safety and security concerns.

Noise

In addition we have received numerous reports from crew members detailing noise issues preventing adequate rest in hotel rooms. Traffic noise and noise from adjoining rooms being the most commonly cited issues.

Some of the other issues that have been raised include:

Some hotel rooms do not offer sufficient privacy for flight attendants. Persons riding in outside elevators can see directly into many rooms unless the black out curtain are fully drawn.

There is a lack of adequate food, service and recreational facilities near to the hotel. This is particularly a problem after normal business hours and on weekends, due to the nature of the area being a business district.

Consequently, by accommodating flight attendants at the Westin Bonaventure Hotel, Qantas is in breach of EBA IV by failing to provide"first class accommodation" as required by cl.17.1.1. The accommodation is not of a"high security standard" (cl.17.1.2(a)) and the rooms are not "free of extraneousnoise" (cl.17.1.2(b)).

Qantas has also failed to have due regard to"the locality, environment inside and outside of the hotel, noise, transport, availability of acceptable standards of meals andservices" as required by cl.17.1.3.

In terms of process, the FAAA has made strong representations to Qantas about the problems faced by crew at this hotel, there have been numerous meetings and correspondence where we attempted to achieve a negotiated outcome with the Company. Unfortunately, the Company does not consider the above issues serious enough to warrant moving crew to other hotels. Consequently we have listed before the AIRC.

[lowerlobe]

Marsha,
Think twice before applying for the base in LHR.

The rumours about the problem with crew hour restrictions appear to be true and if this is the case then the long term viability of the base is in doubt!

Also the start up cost is said to be 3 times the estimated cost,so I would be surprised if the base is extended beyond the contracted 2 or 3 years

This is not a reflection on the crew based in LHR but of the mess up the company made in their crew figures of nearly 17% based on an anticipated 240 hour roster.

This must be driving GD nuts with him wondering how he will explain this screw up to the board,especially after the screw up with Jet Star Asia!!!

[wan2fly]

Where do you get this info from ? have you access to GD filofax etc ? or is this rumour re QF - just the usual "Galley FM" broadcasting once again......

I attended an assessment centre last week with QF in London and OMG - we started at 8am and didnt finish until 4pm !!! I have to say that the Aussie CSM's and CSS's are so friendly and seem to love the base - I also have to say that the Base Manager is a great bloke - he stopped the morning session as the terrible bombs went off in london and asked us all to turn our phones on and make contact with family and friends etc - he then left and made contact with ALL the QF LHR crew that were in the UK...

I was very impressed with the whole day it was so well organised and ran like clock work so well done QF LHR and long may you live !!........

[GalleyHag]

I think even if the LHR was to close (which is a long shot) QF will just open up another base somehwere else like Singapore or expand the Bangkok base, there is no way they wont take advantage of the number of overseas base crew they can employ to reduce costs.

[lowerlobe]

GalleyHag,

Too true,
but at least it is one less place for them to base crew and it forces GD to explain to the shareholders and the board how he messed up and that means one less chance he has before they ask him to look for a job elsewhere.

Wan2Fly,

The story actually came from inside QCC in Sydney,and if you look at some facts they all seem to add up.
1:LHR crew with huge slips,QF does not want to give crew 3 and 4 day holidays for nothing,they only do that because they have to
2: The QF 1 the other day arriving in LHR with 8 Thai based crew..Why??Are there that many LHR based crew going sick upline?
3:recruiting for LHR as well,if it so efficient why more crew

LHR base was set up to reduce costs and if it does not achieve that,then it will not survive.

This as I said has nothing to do with the crew or managers,I know of some good people up there ,the reality is financial ,it is just a dollar (or pound) issue

[jettlager]

A friend of mine flew out of LHR the other day full fare to Sydney.

She claims that the whole crew in economy were Thai except for one.

They spoke nothing but their native tongue to each other and when seated on the jumpseat for takeoff and landing, totally ignoring the passengers in front of them.

My UK based friend wasn't happy about what the "Spirit of Australia" has become. [in order to ensure that our executives get their bonuses.]

How many other passengers feel the same I wonder?

[str]

Had someone from accounts dept onboard who told me the base is costing way more than projected. GD definately won't be happy.

Sick leave is so high that they are slipping Bangkok crew in
London for up to 9 days on standby to replace LHR crew going sick. So much for saving money on hotel bills and allowances.

Spoke with some of the LHR crew in Hong Kong, majority aren't happy with rosters as there is little stability. The base is currently recruiting and training more people but at drinks at the bar, several of the LHR crew admitted they were waiting to hear from other airlines.

[FatEric]

Flew 744 recently hkg-syd with what I safely assume is a senior CC.

All grumpy, some very rude. Gossiped in front of pax. Nearly bowled me over after shutdown trying to exit the aircraft before all pax off. Offered absolutely no help at all during loading and unloading, just stared vacantly into space. Rudely told a sleeping pax to get feet off the seat. No magazines to read. No eyeshades, earplugs or toothbrush on offer. No vego meal for the wife, no attempt to assist and no sorry.

Normally its SQ or CX but QF when no alternative. Staff are just proving that QF is a dinosaur of an airline as far as customer service is concerned.

[lowerlobe]

FatEric

I can honestly say that in 30 years I have never seen a longhaul crew exit aircraft before pax have.Maybe in the old days one crew would take the Gen Dec and crew customs forms off first so Immigration could process them but your description of crew bowling you over makes me wonder about the accuracy of your claims.

[lowerlobe]

Marsha,

As I have suggested before ,have you considered Emirates or Gulf Air?

[wan2fly]

mmmm I think a lot of the more negative posts are all Galley FM once again - I dont know what is comming from Down Under..

What I do know is that I have an x-colleague who work at LHR - thats why I have applied and she loves it really does - she has great fun and feels everyone is helpful - all this crap about "us and them" with the Aussie crew is not true............

I think though that SOME of the points raised ( especially about recruiting) could be true as this is a new base and I guess things will change maybe stopovers will become less or something I dont know - you have got to expect a new airline or a new base to go through change to ensure it gets on track..

One thing I will say is WOW that crew room is simply gorgeous - wish ours was like that ...

There were 30-40 people at my interview and around 15 got through to next stage - i was surprised that there were 5 Aussies there too - two from SYD and 3 that already lived in the UK...they were really nice too - the 2 from Sydney were a bit errrrrrrr not that friendly but i guess they thought they already had the job... anyway we will see - if i get a job and then get on line i will make up my own mind....

[wan2fly]

Marsha,

As I have suggested before ,have you considered Emirates or Gulf Air?

OUCH !!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you not know that EK and GF have THE worst working conditions ever - not the accommodation or flying ...It seems to me that most Aussie crew are MAJOR pro union and stand up and shout when things are not right or you guys dont like someting ( This is not a dig - i wish us Brits were more like it ) However EK and GF do not have any rights unions - So I believe etc and you work under Arabic law not European nor Australian so things are very different here.....

If im incorrect then please someone set the record straight ....

Cheers....

[peanut pusher]

I refrain from posting anymore because of the lack of facts used in any debate by some posters, but must give you the real picture.
The facts are on the wall in the LHR base (room 2),
Start up = 4% under budget
Cost saving = well on target to save over 18.3 million first year.
This came through the bases first audit in SYD last month when all the rumours were flying around about a closure ha ha ha.
More recruiting required because of the light coverage of sick leave from start up. 8 crew pulled the pin at the last minute so 2 new classes were required to cover the crew who didn't come up and greater reserve pool.
Thai crew are covering reserve while 8 crew come to the ground for service and ep training.
The facts will be printed in black and white in the 04/05 Fin.report for all to see.
Please lets open this again when the audited figures are there for all to see.
Happy to debate this again later, trust me it's doing just fine except sick leave which has improved greatly over the last month.


This is a non BS or spin doctored posting

[lowerlobe]

Peanut Pusher


The facts are on the wall in LHR base room 2

Of course I believe you and the company !!

QF management has always been known to tell the truth and never(God Forbid) to put a self motivated spin on anything they consider in their own interest...It would never enter their minds to do such a thing.

Hold on , I think I see a formation of pigs flying past

Marsha,

I wish you the best of luck finding a job!

I have not been to Mainz for a long time but I remember it being great , especially in summer

[GalleyHag]

Marsha

I certainly feel for you but you should know better than to think Qantas would give a dam. It is disappointing that long serving employees are not given the opportunities to move into permanent position as cabin crew but that is just the nature of the company at present.

I suppose the same could be said about MAM casuals. They are endorsed on all aircraft except 747 and fly everyday representing the airline however they must also attend interviews or even open days if thats what QF wanted them to do to obtain a position within the airline. So you are not alone.

This is not a new thing and dont take it personally although after many years of service and getting a somewhat brief taste of flying it is a bitter pill to take.

HOWEVER, there are options. AirNZ are recruiting for Long Haul crew. Short Haul crew operate those tasman services you are referring to and the possible changes that go along with that. You need to get your application in for Long Haul, wait for your staff travel to kick in (or hop onto a friends at QF) and start commuting. NZ is an easier commute than Perth afterall. I know you dont want to hear it but Jetconnect flying QF long Haul is another option. As you know the salary and conditions are appalling BUT you can start your flying career and see how things pan out and look at what options are available to you in a couple of years. AKL crew are being interviewed for BFirst positions at present so there is another opportnity to progress your career.

Things tend to go in circles but im not holding my breath for permanent recruitment to open up with Qantas in Australia anytime soon, but you never know. So if you have your foot in the door at least you can sort of guarantee yourself an interview should it arise.

Try to stay positive and 37.5 is not old in my initial ground school there were 2 people 50+ so dont sweat the small stuff.

lowerlobe

30 years flying with QF? If so good on you for positing information that directly effects so many crew. After 30 years I would have thought most people would be over all this industrial crap, but yourself and other senior cabin crew that post on this thread prove me wrong. Good on you for being supportive and taking the time, its not only appreciated by me but a lot of valuable information is gained for current crew and wannabe's.

Peanut Pusher also makes a valid contribution so I would be disappointed if you refrained from posting to much.

[Bad Adventures]

With the QF15/QF16 terminating as of 25 March 06 and the QF29/QF30 going up to daily, those nice long slips the LHR base crew has been getting in SIN & HKG will be history, what a lovely base that will be to fly out of then! It will be minimum slips for every pattern. Lets watch the sick leave spiral then!

[qcc2]

this was my second trip where i took over from lhr based crew and i must say the feedback from customers and duty travel staff was on both times similar. p/c very basic service , little idea what they were doing and the same goes for j/c. i thought once was just an exception but it appears there is a pattern of it. i understand some pc punters forwarded emails to gd and jb:E

[peanut pusher]

qcc2 next time your at work ask to see the customer satisfaction surveys base by base.
I've seen them and then you can say what you want after getting more than two hand overs.
Gee in my time as a csm I reackon I got about 100 complaints a year when based in SYD about everything from product to crew.
Some flights are excellent and some are not just like any base.

Bad adventures
Some long slips will be lost and most will be 48hrs to 56hrs. This was in the briefing pack last year when offered to Aus crew. Keep trying to talk it down but be factual as March 06 will already a year from opening.

[Bad Adventures]

Of course we always believe the briefing pack!

Here's some facts for you straight from scheduling. As from 25 March 2006.

QF1/QF2 slip time 31.20 hours. Min requirement 12 hours.

QF29/QF30 slip time 24 hours. Min requirement 17 hours.

QF31/QF32 slip time 44 hours. Min requirement 17 hours.

Remember we must keep the base on budget!

Enjoy.

:ok:

[wan2fly]

What A nasty thing to write !!!!!!!!

I cant believe that your working for the same company !! I am left speachless by your post....

And to put a :E at the end of your post !!...

Correct me if im wrong but you have had a kick from writing this ?

Do you not believe in teamwork, which ever country your from ? YOU work for the SAME company as your UK colleagues....
--------------------------
this was my second trip where i took over from lhr based crew and i must say the feedback from customers and duty travel staff was on both times similar. p/c very basic service , little idea what they were doing and the same goes for j/c. i thought once was just an exception but it appears there is a pattern of it. i understand some pc punters forwarded emails to gd and jb

[speedbirdhouse]

Want2fly,

QCC2 has done nothing more than report concerns with the service as communicated by the passengers who recieved it.

Quote-

"which ever country your from ? YOU work for the SAME company as your UK colleagues...."

Well actually, he/she doesn't.

He works for QANTAS and you work for some other company based in some other country.

[qcc2]

just mentioned a little feedback is like putting out a fishing line.
you guys just took it hook, line and sinker. very touchy about the london base. peanut pusher,i agree there are many complaints regarding the product (or lack of it) and its inconsitencies regardless of base.
have another trip in a couple of weeks, shall look forward to the feedback
as for want2fly you should change it to noonewantsmefly based on your comments
constructive critisism is the key to improve service levels.
as speedbird pointed out i work for qf in australia, the london base are contractors by some subsidery.

[cart_elevator]

VJet boy
can confrirm a QF crew member was arrested in BKK,sketchy details, she is still there, but apparently at the crew hotel,not in jail. She has been released,but apparently awaiting a court appearance so wont be home for a while.It sounds really sad.

[qcc2]

just spoke to on of our techies and he tells me that qf plans to use the a330-300 on the bombay run. needs a fuel stop in darwin on the way up, direct back. there will be another destination in india by years end. also more US services are coming. this, plus the added beijing trips (initially 3X), one extra shanghai and the charter flights to korea.:E

[lowerlobe]

peanut pusher,

Will you deny or confirm that there is a EU/UK crew hour limitation that is less than QF's original planning hours of 240?

Has anyone else heard anymore of the AO EBA vote and what the split was?

The silence from the faaa is almost deafening!

[Trollywally]

AO EBA

235 PEOPLE VOTED

144 YES
90 NO
1 INFORMAL

[lowerlobe]

TrollyWally,

How many AO cabin crew are there?

Why is the faaa so reluctant to say anything about this vote??

It has been nearly a month now and there is still not a thing on the faaa website,what are we paying membership fees for?

[Bolty McBolt]

Some more scuttlebutt

QF plans to use the A330-300 to Bangalore (silicon valley of India) Transiting in Singapore.
Singapore-- Bangalore round trip about 8.5 hours duty time return to Singapore
Starts next year.. Will this play havoc with your slip time?
:ouch:

[qcc2]

i dont think it will affect the slip times in singapore. however if it is the same night shuttle we used to do out of sin to bom, i cant see many takers, regardless of sliptime.

would find it amazing to once again compete with indian carriers and sing air on (if it is going to happen) the bangalore run. we couldn\'t make any money with the 767 on the bom shuttle why should jb expect to make some on the new run unless it goes direct to oz?

[Bolty McBolt]

The Bangalore run is out of Sin to utilise an A330 that sits on the ground for 10 hours a day.
When you say
" i cant see many takers, regardless of sliptime" are you reffering to cabin crewor pax. Pax have a choice..Cabin crew ??

[qcc2]

it refers to cabin crew as the tour of duty used to be pretty hard.

also those of yyou interested in the uk crew rosters and how they come about log on to teh uk civil aviation website and read teh follwing link
www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP371.PDF

this site refers to duty limitations and fatigue management

Bolty McBolt do you know where the a330 is coming from and then stands 10 hours on the ground to go to?

[wine o babe]

Has anyone heard if, AO , now that the EBA is signed, are looking at putting on anymore crew?
Would have thought that there would be some movement in this area surely.

[lowerlobe]

Wine O babe,

If the EBA vote return was indeed yes,then you probably will not see too many adverts in Australia for CC.

With the precondition of unlimited bases with no cap ,then any adverts will be in overseas newspapers.AO would not need to employ Aus crew as overseas crew would be a fraction of the cost as our Thai based crew are.

[str]

Bad Adventures

Wouldn't the flight times of QF29/30 HKG-LHR need to be changed in order for a 24hr slip to be achieved. Looking at the flights now they arrive in HKG in the morning and leave in the evening so a slip of around 40hr would be required.