Training, hours building and first job prospects in America

[FIXED N' ROTOR]

Can anyone recommend a good place to do some training and self-fly in R22's in Los Angeles?


Thanks




See also -

Training & Flying in America: Visa Information (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=178223)


Heliport

[nonegov]

I used to work for a School in LA where you will get the best value for money anywhere!!
Group 3 Aviation- 1(818) 994 9376- the web site is www.group3aviation.com (http://www.group3aviation.com)
The owner is from the UK and will make sure you get good treatment
It is a fun area to fly in as you can be out of LA in 5 minutes and they have a great practice area in a dried up river bed nearby.
Get in touch if I can help with anything

[floppyjock]

I can recommend Group3 I did my commercial
there last november in 6 days. Peter is the man to talk too.

[kbf1]

I will second that. A close friend of mine was involved with Group 3 up until his erturn to the UK last year. As my wife is from LA I flew out of G3 a few times. Peter Lowry is a decent guy who will look after you, as he does all his students. Van Nuys isn't the best place in the world, but the airfield is good and well serviced for the corporate jets that use it.

[FIXED N' ROTOR]

Thanks guys. I'll pass the information on to a PPL friend who needs it.

[TidelWave]

Does anyone have advise on a good heli school here in the Tampa area?

Also, I am still torn between helicopters a flying with wings? My heart says helicopters but my financial needs (would like to get paid doing this) are swaying me toward planes. Any advise would be welcome.

Thanks,
Steve

[stikker]

My advise would be to ask yourself the question do I live to fly or fly to live, fixed wing offers the prospect of a more lucrative career, rotary wing probably more excitement. Its worth spending the money and getting the best training available, helicopters HAI in CA are good prospect or someone like CSE at oxford for fixed wing. Also aim to get a licence for the area you hope to work in i.e. UK CAA Licence, US FAA and so on . Lots of people get caught have to spent more time and money doing conversations FAA to CAA etc.

[TidelWave]

stikker,

Thanks for the reply. I am sure that I want to stay in the states. Hopefully that will not come into play later. My main setback is funds due to a recent divorce. I need to keep working and my job is here in Tampa. I do not mind putting in another part time job to get my hours up but it seems it will be a slow process unless I can get a loan.

My heart definitly says Helicopters but my brain is telling me to go fixed wing first and later add on Commercial Helicopter.

Either way..it seems I am looking at about 40k and a lot of hours for the two.

[VeeAny]

Try Ten 7 Aviation who operate 2 R22s.

The guy who runs it is called Neil Stannanought his phone number is 727 410 0981.

They are based at St. Petersburg Clearwater Intl. Airport.

I've been over from the UK and done SFAR73 and some SFH with them twice now.

Neil also has accomodation in Clearwater if you need it.

Tell him Gary sent you.

[SLee]

Try SkyOps in St Pete - otherwise you'll have to travel to Crystal River/Brooksville (John Jerkins) or Kissimee Flight School. There are a few more alittle farther out (Ft. Laud, etc...) but these are the closest.

One mans opinion.....
You'll probably find it cheaper to get your PPL in fixed wing first... then chase your rotor ticket. Rotor lessons (300c, R22, etc...) per hour are about twice that of fixed - so to learn the basics of general aviation theory and practices, it's best to do it at the cheaper rate.

[TidelWave]

Gary/SLee,

Thanks, I talked to Neil and he shed some light on some things. I also took a Discovery flight for fixed wing and loved it. However, my first love is still Helicopters. Going the rout of fixed wing to Commercial Pilot looks like about 20K and then I'll need to get some more time to build the hours (hopefully teaching).
I'm looking way down the road but I like to think ahead :).

[daay41126]

flyer magazine in the uk there was a letter from a pilot regarding self fly hire of a r22 in the usa. He quotes part 61 in far-certification re: special training & experience requirements which stated among other things he needed 200hrs. Can anybody cast any light upon this. I hold a jar ppl(h) with approximately 80hrs total flight time.I am off to florida near sarasota and was hoping to do some flying

cheers

[Rotorbike]

This is a full copy of SFAR 73. Firstly Awareness Training. Then if you have 10 hours of dual and receive a sign off from an instructor then you can log PIC. Your UK instructor time should count towards this but it would be to the discretion of the CFI or flight school.

SFAR NO. 73--ROBINSON R-22/R-44 SPECIAL TRAINING AND EXPERIENCE REQUIREMENTS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sections
1. Applicability.
2. Required training, aeronautical experience, endorsements, and flight
review.
3. Expiration date.
1. Applicability. Under the procedures prescribed herein, this SFAR applies to all persons who seek to manipulate the controls or act as pilot in command of a Robinson model R-22 or R-44 helicopter. The requirements stated in this SFAR are in addition to the current requirements of part 61.
2. Required training, aeronautical experience, endorsements, and flight
review.
(a) Awareness Training:
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(2) of this section, no person may manipulate the controls of a Robinson model R-22 or R-44 helicopter after March 27, 1995, for the purpose of flight unless the awareness training specified in paragraph (a)(3) of this section is completed and the person's
logbook has been endorsed by a certified flight instructor authorized under paragraph (b)(5) of this section.
(2) A person who holds a rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating on that person's pilot certificate and meets the experience requirements of paragraph (b)(1) or paragraph (b)(2) of this section may not manipulate the controls of a Robinson model R-22 or R-44 helicopter for the purpose of
flight after April 26, 1995, unless the awareness training specified in paragraph (a)(3) of this section is completed and the person's logbook has been endorsed by a certified flight instructor authorized under paragraph (b)(5) of this section.
(3) Awareness training must be conducted by a certified flight instructor who has been endorsed under paragraph (b)(5) of this section and consists of instruction in the following general subject areas:
(i) Energy management;
(ii) Mast bumping;
(iii) Low rotor RPM (blade stall);
(iv) Low G hazards; and
(v) Rotor RPM decay.
(4) A person who can show satisfactory completion of the manufacturer's safety course after January 1, 1994, may obtain an endorsement from an FAA aviation safety inspector in lieu of completing the awareness training required in paragraphs (a)(1) and (a)(2) of this section.
(b) Aeronautical Experience:
(1) No person may act as pilot in command of a Robinson model R-22 unless that person:
(i) Has had at least 200 flight hours in helicopters, at least 50 flight hours of which were in the Robinson R-22; or
(ii) Has had at least 10 hours dual instruction in the Robinson R-22 and has received an endorsement from a certified flight instructor authorized under paragraph (b)(5) of this section that the individual has been given the training required by this paragraph and is proficient to act as pilot in command of an R-22. Beginning 12 calendar months after the date of the endorsement, the individual may not act as pilot in command unless the individual has completed a flight review in an R-22 within the preceding 12 calendar months and obtained an endorsement for that flight review. The dual
instruction must include at least the following abnormal and emergency procedures flight training:
(A) Enhanced training in autorotation procedures,
(B) Engine rotor RPM control without the use of the governor,
(C) Low rotor RPM recognition and recovery, and
(D) Effects of low G maneuvers and proper recovery procedures.
(2) No person may act as pilot in command of a Robinson model R-44 unless that person:
(i) Has had at least 200 flight hours in helicopters, at least 50 flight hours of which were in the Robinson R-44; or
(ii) Has had at least 10 hours dual instruction in the Robinson R-44, and has received an endorsement from a certified flight instructor authorized under paragraph
(b)(5) of this section that the individual has been given the training required by this paragraph and is proficient to act as pilot in command of an R-44. Beginning 12 calendar months after the date of the endorsement, the individual may not act as pilot in command unless the individual has completed a flight review in an R-44 within the preceding 12 calendar months and obtained an endorsement for that flight review. The dual instruction must include at least the following abnormal and emergency procedures flight training:
(A) Enhanced training in autorotation procedures,
(B) Engine rotor RPM control without the use of the governor,
(C) Low rotor RPM recognition and recovery, and
(D) Effects of low G maneuvers and proper recovery procedures.
(3) A person who does not hold a rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating must have had at least 20 hours of dual instruction in a Robinson R-22 helicopter prior to operating it in solo flight. In addition, the person must obtain an endorsement from a certified flight instructor authorized under paragraph (b)(5) of this section that instruction has been given in those maneuvers and procedures, and the instructor has found the applicant proficient to solo a Robinson R-22. This endorsement is valid for a period of 90 days. The dual instruction must include at least the following abnormal and emergency procedures flight training:
(i) Enhanced training in autorotation procedures,
(ii) Engine rotor RPM control without the use of the governor,
(iii) Low rotor RPM recognition and recovery, and
(iv) Effects of low G maneuvers and proper recovery procedures.
(4) A person who does not hold a rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating must have had at least 20 hours of dual instruction in a Robinson R-44 helicopter prior to operating it in solo flight. In addition, the person must obtain an endorsement from a certified flight instructor authorized under paragraph (b)(5) of this section that instruction has been given in those maneuvers and procedures, and the instructor has found the applicant proficient to solo a Robinson R-44. This endorsement is valid for a period of 90 days. The dual instruction must include at least the following abnormal and emergency procedures flight training:
(i) Enhanced training in autorotation procedures,
(ii) Engine rotor RPM control without the use of the governor,
(iii) Low rotor RPM recognition and recovery, and
(iv) Effects of low G maneuvers and proper recovery procedures.
(5) No certified flight instructor may provide instruction or conduct a
flight review in a Robinson model R-22 or R-44 unless that instructor:
(i) Completes the awareness training in paragraph (2)(a) of this SFAR;
(ii) Meets the experience requirements of paragraph 2(b)(1)(i) of this SFAR
for the R-22, or paragraph 2(b)(2)(i) of this SFAR for the R-44;
(iii) Has completed flight training in an R-22, R-44, or both, on the
following abnormal and emergency procedures:
(A) Enhanced training in autorotation procedures,
(B) Engine rotor RPM control without the use of the governor,
(C) Low rotor RPM recognition and recovery, and
(D) Effects of low G maneuvers and proper recovery procedures.
(iv) Been authorized by endorsement from an FAA aviation safety inspector or authorized designated examiner that the instructor has completed the appropriate training, meets the experience requirements, and has
satisfactorily demonstrated an ability to provide instruction on the general subject areas of paragraph 2(a)(3) of this SFAR, and the flight training identified in paragraph 2(b)(5)(iii) of this SFAR.
(c) Flight Review:
(1) No flight review completed to satisfy Sec. 61.56 by an individual after becoming eligible to function as pilot in command in a Robinson R-22 helicopter shall be valid for the operation of R-22 helicopter unless that flight review was taken in an R-22.
(2) No flight review completed to satisfy Sec. 61.56 by individual after becoming eligible to function as pilot in command in a Robinson R-44 helicopter shall be valid for the operation of R-44 helicopter unless that flight review was taken in the R-44.
(3) The flight review will include a review of the awareness training subject areas of paragraph 2(a)(3) of this SFAR and the flight training identified in paragraph 2(b) of this SFAR.
(d) Currency Requirements: No person may act as pilot in command of a Robinson model R-22 or R-44 helicopter carrying passengers unless the pilot in command has met the recency of flight experience requirements of Sec. 61.57 in an R-22 or R-44, as appropriate.
3. Expiration date. This SFAR expires December 31, 1997, unless sooner
superseded or rescinded.

Any Questions????

[ 02 August 2001: Message edited by: Rotorbike ]

[The Nr Fairy]

From the SFAR, as above :

The dual instruction must include at least the following abnormal and emergency procedures flight training:
(i) Enhanced training in autorotation procedures,
(ii) Engine rotor RPM control without the use of the governor,
(iii) Low rotor RPM recognition and recovery, and
(iv) Effects of low G maneuvers and proper recovery procedures.

Question - when it says "dual instruction" then lists the manouevres, does that mean you have to demonstrate low G and low RPM in the aircraft ? If so, WHY ?

[Rotorbike]

Low RPM recovery should be shown/demonstrated and the student (PPL holder) demonstrate his understanding by performing it. The reason is so that if the governor fails the pilot can recognize and fly the aircraft afterwards. These are done in flight and hover conditions.

Meaning point 2 and 3 are much the same....

Low G maneuvers should not be shown, the effects and feeling are discussed and a recovery procedure shown.

[ 02 August 2001: Message edited by: Rotorbike ]

[RW-1]

rotorbike is spot on, governor off flight is ok for demonstration of low rpm recovery, and even for just showing you can fly a pattern without it.

But NO ONE demo's actual low G conditions on a teetering head :D

[Lu Zuckerman]

To: RW-1

I beg to differ with you as it is demonstrated to flight students at the safety course obviously conducted at the factory.. The following is a post that appeared in the 18-degree thread:

In November 1994 with about 100 hours I had the pleasure of attending the Robinson Safely Course. It was during the changeover from doing, to not doing Low G condition examples.
Obviously the following is clouded with everything that has happened since but should fit in nicely with nothing you are trying to prove.
So we flew along the beach at some lovely altitude. Approx. 1500. Instructor on the controls student dumb and watching.
Pull back on the stick; push forward and low G. The same instant you are staring out the front of the cockpit at about 90 degrees to the horizon over to your right. It isn't some slow flight condition it is instant. Bang you are there. Maybe this was pronounced as the tail rotor had been slung into completely clean air.
Now Lu, you know that if you have the pleasure of putting in left cyclic to correct the attitude, game over. A tad of left is OK as Tim Tucker has mentioned but by far the most important thing is the aft pull. By tad we aren't talking inches we are talking fractions.
This was done twice to me and I can assure you it is the most serious 20 minutes of training I have ever received during both examples I watched. I can assure you that I learnt from watching the horizon, the aircraft and the cyclic movements.
As a side note after entry to a low G condition and subsequent recovery we weren't facing in the same direction. We were now facing the opposite direction.
So here is the valuable lesson for the day. Should you ever have the misfortune to enter a low G situation in a Robinson helicopter the aft cyclic is the most important to regain control of the rotor disc the subsequent left cyclic will correct for roll and everything else just doesn't matter.
I can't see where 18 degrees makes a whole heap of a difference here. If you ever learnt to fly and then subsequently had the misfortune to witness then you won't ever forget. To those that haven't you sure haven't missed anything.

[Kyrilian]

Lu,
Note the date. Actual low-g maneuvers haven't been a part of training for some time, though they were in the past.

[Rotorbike]

SFAR 73 was brought in during March 95 and you were given one month grace to comply with the 200 hours/50 hours in type instructor requirement. All the rest of SFAR 73 was brought in with immediate effect.

Nothing illegal about Low G inflight manoevers before that date.

If my memory serves me correct.

:eek:

[chips_with_everything]

Does anyone have any statistics to show how effective these measures have been??

In particular LOC and non-LOC fatals per 100,000 hours, so that they might be compared to the stats given in the NTSB's 1996 Special Investigation Report.

I have a suspicion that the Robinson figures might be comparable with other models these days.

Please no words or opinions from Lu, I only want numbers. True ones.

Thank you.

[NigD]

I'm thinking of taking 6 months off work to go and train at Helicopter Adventures in the U.S. to do the JAA/FAA modular CPL(H) course. This will, once passed, give me a JAA and FAA CPL(H)with an FAA FI rating. The plan is to then instruct and possibly gain the CFII rating over the next 18 months and return to the U.K. with approx 800-1000 hours and a valid UK JAA CPL(H). The course is to ATP standards on the written exams. Just wondering if anyone had done something similar or heard of anyone doing this and what are the F.I. job prospects in the U.S. after the initial 6 months and the prospects in the U.K. if I attained the 800-1000 hours.

Another one in need of guidance!!!

:eek:

[smitty747]

Are they still offering CPL(H) in USA?

[NigD]

Yep
Apparently, the only school in the U.S. licensed to offer UK JAA CPL(H). They have faxed me a copy of their CAA accreditation and I've spoken to PLH who have confirmed that they do have the authority to train to JAA standard (though France is refusing to recognise JAA flight training by schools outside of JAA, should you wish to work there!!!!).

HAI train to ATP standard as there is as yet no JAA CPL(H) standard.

I have heard they train Bristows cadets, though I haven't had this confirmed. :confused:

[magbreak]

I think Heli Adventures is run by George Bedford who used to be the Principle of the Bristow flying school when it was at Redhill. They were over at Helitech pushing the school recently, and I think you are correct and they are training Bristow cadets.

[The Nr Fairy]

All :

I'm going to be in LA first week of December. Now that you've got a chance to plan some time away from LA, anyone know of places in the vicinity of El Segundo where I can do some flying - R22 or other, cheaper the better but SAFE !!

I'd like, if poss, to do more than just fly with an instructor but I've absolutely NO idea on current airspace restrictions, insurance restrictions and all that stuff.

Anyone willing to help - email or post most welcome.

[Rotorbike]

LA would have to be www.rainbowair.com (http://www.rainbowair.com) Dave Parson is the man to talk to.

:D :D

[rotorfan]

Nr - by coincidence, I travelled to southern California the first week of December last year, also planning to fly. I wanted to attend the Robinson factory safety course, but it was to be held later in the month. I called the factory asking if I could simply hire one of their instructors for a couple of hours. That wasn't possible, but they referred me to a helicopter business whose owner served as one of the factory pilots once a month. I talked to him and told him what I wanted, and he set me up with his chief pilot. The outfit is HeliStream, based at John Wayne airport. I flew with Andreas Moser, an Austrian, and had a great time. Andreas says he has over 5000 hrs in Robbies. Could be. He was very good with the machine.

When you exit the elevator to get to their office, three stories up, the sign welcomes you to the world's largest private heliport. There are three landing pads outside the long hangar. They had a half-dozen R22s, including an IFR trainer, an R44, a 206, and an AStar, maybe a 350.

We took off and went over the main runway, with a 727 rolling out 400 feet below. Nice view! Just a few minutes away are some good sized hills (I'm not sure they are large enough to classify them as mountains). We went down in the valleys and did some confined-area work, and max-perf TOs. Back up higher, I wanted a demo of vortex-ring state. Yikes! The bottom dropped out. It brought back memories of my first spin in a FW. We had planned some touchdown autos, but ran out of time. What a kick coming back for an approach to the pad on the roof. I know the old-timers on this board have done it in their sleep, but it my first try. All in all, well worth going.

As I recall, the rate was $160/hr, dual. I do distinctly remember that it was about $40/hr less than I had been paying in my one-R22 town. You can check their site at:

http://www.helistream.com

Next month, let us know where you ended up, and how it went. Have fun!

(Edited to take out the animated faces that didn't show up in the post, only their URL. Haven't figured out how to make them display yet........)

[ 15 November 2001: Message edited by: rotorfan ]

[pilotwolf]

And try getting in or out of there when its busy! Go fly from Long Beach - its quieter and more accessable from LA. Try LA Helicopters or Rotaviation. If you want to go as far south as San Diego try Corporate Helicopters.

[rotorfan]

helidrvr -
Regarding the "world's largest private heliport", I didn't ask what might make them so qualified. Maybe "private", rather than a corporation-owned skyscraper. In any event, I'm not making the claim, only relating my experience there. Although I've been a pilot 21 years, I'm a rotor rookie. It doesn't take as much to impress me as it does you. That's why my comment "I know the old-timers on this board have done it in their sleep, but it was my first try." Regardless of the accuracy of the claim, it was still a valuable experience for me.

pilotwolf-
"Go fly from Long Beach - its quieter and more accessable from LA." I wouldn't argue your point. I took the airlines into the LA area and landed at Long Beach. I was impressed (and surprised!) by how quiet the airport was. Except, of course, I noticed in a split second the R22 overhead doing circuits. Flying with HeliStream (at John Wayne), I was amazed that it wasn't a big problem for us to get back to the base, even though we arrived right at 5 P.M.
Your suggestions to Nr Fairy certainly might be better than mine. I chose HeliStream because Robinson gave me their name. I simply offered a recommendation on the only flying I've done in the LA basin. I think it's marvelous that there are so many companies to choose from. That competition helps keep the cost down for the customers!

[ 16 November 2001: Message edited by: rotorfan ]

[pilotwolf]

... I dropped in to John Wayne once for fuel then burnt a large proportion of it waiting to depart! Spoke to locals as thought it was my quietly spoken English accent that may have been causing the lack of RT response but was advised to avoid it for the reason I mentioned. Maybe if you're based there its easier? LGB used to be busier - similar traffic volumes to Stanstead on a quiet day when I did my PPL! But seemed to be much quieter there this year. The Prop Room resturant comes recommended too!!

Have flown with Rotoraviation, not flown with LA Helicopters but they come recommended from a mechanic friend - who incidently does their maintance - so I know they are safe! Both have ex-US Helicopters staff which was where I originally trained. Like wise Corporate has USH ex chief pilot and ex chief instructor working there - again both excellent pilots and instructors.

[Flying Lawyer]

Nr Fairy

If I remember corrctly, El Segundo is near LAX.
Things I'd highly recommend which are not too far away from where you'll be staying are:
(1) A visit to the Robinson factory at Torrance. Best to book in advance if possible.

(2) Flying over LA with one of the radio station helicopters.
'Commander' Chuck Street is based at Fullerton, about an hour's drive from you. He charges about 100$ per hour, and there's a choice of the morning flight (3 hrs, 6-9am) or afternoon flight (2 hrs, 3-5pm). Fullerton airfield is not far from Disneyland and Nott's Berry Farm if you're taking children! Chuck is a qualified pilot and will let you fly (supervised) even if you don't have a JetRanger rating.
Click Commander Chuck's website (http://www.commanderchuck.com)
He gets very heavily booked, but worth a try. If he can't take you, there's another place at Van Nuys which does the same thing.

Because insurance costs are very high, SFH in the States is not as readily available as here, but not impossible if you establish/prove yourself with a school.

If you fly with an instructor, make sure you get to the rooftop Helipad at LAX.
It's an interesting approach, and even more interesting departure - very low level to the ocean before climbing!

Also make sure you get to fly down the coast low level. Fantastic fun - and Americans (unlike the Brits) don't complain when they see low-flying helicopters.
If you've got a few hours to spare, it's well worth flying all the way down to San Diego - one of the most beautiful ocean fronts in the world.
Route out to Point Loma (you'll need to speak to the military - be prepared to wait) and then across the bay (speak to San Diego International)

Have fun!

PS
We'll get that Gazelle trip arranged one of these days! :)

[ 16 November 2001: Message edited by: Flying Lawyer ]

[Rotorbike]

Was informed a few weeks ago that due to Sept 11th and the Class B restrictions that the VFR transitions had been closed, Heli Shoreline included.

I believe Bravo Helicopters are still operating out of LAX Heliport so there might still be an option in and out.

Orange County is truly a busy airport and alot depends on what you want to do. Airport hop or punch circuits/patterns. If it is the second then you don't want Orange County. It is a small hub of United Airlines and so is a little busy. Waiting for 15 minutes to leave isn't unusual especially if you are a little hesitant.

Helistream is owned and run by Rod Anderson who is an FAA examiner and has been operating Robinsons since the beginning, he also sells them and gets much business through factory recommendations. One of his students went on to be a test pilot for many years in Torrance.

If you choose Orange County you will find yourself flying to Long Beach for pattern training. A 10-15 minute flight each way. Plus on return to Orange County you will find the majority of times that you won't go straight to the helipad......there isn't fuel there!!! So you will land on ground level fuel and then return to the helipad.

But if it is off airport work you want then Torrance and Long Beach hasn't got any within 20 minutes flight time (you fly past Orange to get to it). Torrance too has only one pad.

Long Beach has three heli pads operating between two runways. Unless the wind is from the North/South then only two. Rainbow has been offering Helicopters since Everything Flying became defunct. Dave Parsons was originally at US Helicopters, then EFI and finally set up on his own within Rainbow.

Burbank schools don't do on airport stuff either. It used to be 20 minutes to their practice area. Lots depends on if you are buiding time or want something out of it.

Insurance you used to have to purchase insurance for self fly hire which made it too over the top unless you were doing huge amounts. 30-40 hours.

Really any of them will be perfect. But I say Long Beach.

Hope that helps.

[Autorotate]

Heli Adventures, now in FL is actually owned by an Irishman in Patrick Corr. Great person to deal with and they try as hard as anybody to get their students placed. They have a mixed fleet and very new compared to many schools.

[Blade88]

Does Heli Adventures have a web site?

[GEORDIEPILOT]

Their website is www.heli.com (http://www.heli.com)
I did my JAA CPL(H) there earlier this year and have no hesitation in recommending them.
Training for the JAA licence is done on the S300 and George Bedford will probably be the examiner (you wont train with him).
If anybody wants any further info - please Email me and Ill give you further details.

[FL245]

Hi,

Would like to obtain my ppl(h) and really thinking oabout the states. Can anyone recommend anywhere?

Also would like to do it in something larger than an R22 ! Jetranger perhaps?

I have an ATPL (A) and fly with an airline.

Thanks!

[RW-1]

Lu will slam me for this, but why not do it in an R-22?

1. Cheaper thant the 206, you can get more hours in for your buck.

2. Harder to fly than the 206, so when you are ready to do aturbine transition, you will not have any issues there.

If you are just going for your Pvt, I say do it in the recip, then transition. you will end up in the 206, but spend less $$$ getting there.

Heck, ok you could do it in a hughes 300 too, now Lu can't slam me. :)

Florida is a great location, Heli Adventures up the coast, and I fly down in Ft. Lauderdale at Volar.

[ 18 December 2001: Message edited by: RW-1 ]

[HelosRfun]

Try Tomlinson Aviation in Ormond Beach, Florida. I did my ATP(H) with them in the SA-269/300C. They also have CB models, + a real nice BIII they use for 135 opns, but they do rent it out for instruction/hour building. Very professional CFI/II's. The junior has over 1,000 (all in type I believe), and the senior has several thousand in both the SA's and the Jetranger. Both know their stuff! (386) 676-0312 phone or FAX at (386) 676-9598. www.tomlinsonaviation.com (http://www.tomlinsonaviation.com)
OR, try Jim or Milton at Helicopter Associates, Inc. in N. Carolina. They operate OH-6/A's which have been recertified as HU-369/500/C's. Can't find much more fun than those. They are a handful, especially to start out on, but they offer a decent price for turbine. (704) 695-1300. www.helicopterassociates.com (http://www.helicopterassociates.com)
Hope this helps.

[FL245]

many thanks

Fl245

[Rigsby]

Can anyone reccomend a friendly School that self fly hires R44s close to Los Angeles?? and what are there requiremnts for a low time PPL with a UK License??

Kind Regards,

[B Sousa]

If you dont get an answer here,try going to (www.justhelicopters.com) go into the forum and ask the same question. You will no doubt get an answer or ten. Be prepared for some idiotic answers as there are a lot of wannabes in there.
Good Luck...

[ 27 December 2001: Message edited by: B Sousa ]</p>

[Kevin Eastman]

give me a call or e:mail me at 310.567.0056, in the U.S. we have a 44 and may be getting a new one.

[Whirlybird]

I recently got my CPL(H), but there's no work for 200 hour R22 pilots, and I need another 100 hours before I can do an instructors rating. I have too many commitments to go abroad long term, but decided a short flying "holiday" in the US or Oz might get me at least half of those hours at less than the exorbitant cost it would be in the UK. On JustHelicopters website I found the following:

<a href="http://www.stellarhelicopters.com." target="_blank">www.stellarhelicopters.com.</a> Based in Florida, offers R22 hour building at $125/hour.

<a href="http://www.heliclass.com." target="_blank">www.heliclass.com.</a> Los Angeles area. Offers B206 conversion course in a week, then B206 at $120/hour, flying sightseeing tours of LA. Not sure if you could do this on a visitors visa - does it count as work?

Does anyone know anything about either of these operations? I've had my fingers burned in the past in aviation; I'm not crossing the pond and spending lots of money without finding out all I can first. E-mail me privately if you prefer - address is in my profile.

All other hour building ideas gratefully received!

[B Sousa]

I saw the L.A. job where YOU pay to fly..Now thats some smart outfit.....I dont think they consider that work, because for some reason your not being paid...Call the folks.......Do the stuff and after a couple hundred hours if someone squawks and says, you can do like most helicopter pilots........."Ok, I wont do it anymore, nobody told me." At least you have the hours in the book.

[Kevin Eastman]

haven't heard anything about stellar. heliclass is a guy named phillipe. his 206 sign off consists of 2 hours flying and 10 hours of fround school which includes all the books etc. you might want to ask furthur about the rates because i heard he had an increase to $160 hr.

[Kevin Eastman]

forgot to say that it is not considered work because you are building hours. the uk though will only accept so many of these hours as time towards your commercial, so check with them as to how many they would accept. if you have your conversion you should be able to count all of it. the caa wants you to have P1 time which they consider tobe solo only.

[Helinut]

A number of UK pilots have gone and done the "cheap B206" flying around LA. I went a few years ago to Group 3 Aviation at Van Nuys. Basically, after a check out flight, you fly with a CPL who is doing some useful work - usually flying a traffic patrol for a radio station. You do all the stick time, and it is a good way of building experience on the JetRanger. If he is keen you will even get a chance to do some mountain flying practice. I was doing about 5 hrs per day, covering morning and evening rush "hours". My only reservation is that the good old CAA probably would not consider it to be PIC time for you, if they were to look at it closely. In the past, they have taken the view that the "other guy" is the PIC and (as far as the CAA are concerned) there can only be 1 PIC. I believe that other regulators take a different view. However, you could always do it and see if they noticed, but you should be aware of the risk?!

[Michael Jupp]

similar idea "traffic watch" in LA <a href="http://[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a> $135.00 an hour
I'm in the same situation low time cpl looking for 300 hrs, have you thought about South africa at 15 rand to the pound must be looking cheap.
Good news at the end though signs of a shortage in UK instructor's ????????

[Flying Lawyer]

I spent a week hours-building in the States, flying a JetRanger for an LA radio station with Chuck Street. Chuck's based at Fullerton which is not far from Disneyland. We flew all over the LA area, North as far as Malibu and South to Orange County. I'd highly recommend him.

http://www.commanderchuck.com/_borders/519chk2.jpg
(The photo is of Chuck Street, not me!)

I don't know whether the CAA would allow the hours for a CPL. I'm only a PPL and did it for the experience not hours building, so I didn't bother to check.

Chuck's site at Commander Chuck (http://www.commanderchuck.com)

[RW-1]

Brought this to the top, as I spoke to Jody over at stellar.

He trained where I am, at Volar, and has an operation goiign out of Stewart (SUA).

He decided that it would be great if someone who wanted to build time and want to fly around could do so at a reduced rate, and at $125/hr he isn't making any profit on it. That's basically it, no evil put you to work and making you pay for it, etc. deals ... he won't do auto's, but you can do just about anything else, and fly, not a straight rental, sorry.

You can call him on his cell at 954-292-4938 and schedule to fly, even you guys coming from the expo, Orlando isn't that far from Stewart ...

Seemed like a nice guy, might even drive up (an hour) if I'm inclined to do some flying in that area, by driving up there, I could do another 30 min further north in the 22, maybe even see the Cape, etc.

[The Nr Fairy]

I'm off to California on Friday to spend three weeks poling a Robbie around, in an attempt to get the 50 hours I need to get to the hours requirement for the JAR CPL(H).

I'll be flying from Long Beach, but intend taking a machine away for days at a time. I have a few ideas for itineraries but I'm up for suggestions and also want an idea of whether they're practical.

Itinerary 1. LA, San Joaquin Valley to San Francisco, back down the coast.

Itinerary 2. LA, Las Vegas, Death Valley (Furnace Creek) because I want a minus MSL airfield in the logbook, then back to LA.

Other thoughts. LA, Las Vegas, east of the Sierra Nevadas to Reno, over to Tahoe then SF ( rather than the San Joaquin Valley ).

Any suggestions for best / safest routings, hotels, sights to see, things to do, things not to do ? My wife says she'll castrate me if I go to the Grand Canyon without her, so I suppose I'll have to go to dinner with my tall, blonde, American boss who's on sick leave in SF !!

[rock_steady_hover]

I was out there in Nov and went flying with rainbowair at long beach. Did a couple of days training before a 4 day xcountry to grand canyon, vegas and back - about 900miles. Due to the high density all our landings and takeoffs where of the running kind. I then combined the trip with going to the saftey course in torrence. best $350 you'll spend in your R22 career!!!

Have fun in california and remember your sunglasses.

[tgrendl]

Nr, The valley route has more chance of delaying you because of weather but is nice if it's clear.

The other item to watch for is winds from the north if you're heading towards Las Vegas. As you approach the mountains that encircle LA to the north (and especially in the Cajon pass)the turbulence can be severe. I fly a 7500lb twin and have been tossed around like a rag doll in those winds. The notam-pilot reports many times have no mention of the turbulence in the pass at all. If even ten knots is coming out of the north I would be very dubious in a light, teetering head machine. If you do happen upon it you may be able to climb above 9-11,000 feet to reduce the turbulence.

Lots of traffic, watch out for that too !!

Enjoy the trip !!

T.

[On the skids]

It goes without saying that you'd have to drop in at Torrance. I suppose it'll be too late now to get onto the Safety Course, even if they're running one to co-incide with your visit, but I'm sure they'll give you the Cooks Tour. Only 10 mins from Long Beach.

[B Sousa]

Since you apparently have no fear while driving a Robbie. Add Big Bear Lake on your list. If your going to Death Valley, look at doin a RON in Bishop California, that will take you up the Owens Valley. Very Beautiful in places.. .Then if you really want to hang it out, go over the Sierras via the Yosemite Valley and in to Fresno. Then North To Stockton, Sacramento (be sure and see Cameron Park, Ca, the homes there have taxiways to the airport) and over the Sierras again via South Lake Tahoe.. .Having flown that area for over thirty years, I can give you a bunch of fun sites if your just burning fuel. My email is good.

[vaqueroaero]

Fly down the coast to Carlsbad and visit us at Civic Helicopters. It's a beautiful flight and takes about an hour from LGB. Phone number is 760 438 8424. Look forward to seeing you. (maybe).

[Arkroyal]

Whilst in the Death Valley area, pop over to Beatty, Nev. Just on the edge of the weapons range and a good night stop. Cheap motels and a great pub, The Sourdough Saloon. Airfield with hangarage, loonie 'nam vet. called John who will talk at you for as long as you've got to listen

<a href="http://www.onroute.com/destinations/nevada/beatty.html" target="_blank">Beatty</a>

[ZAZOO]

I need help with information for reputable Helicopter Training Schools in the United States.

I would like to convert my FAA Fixed wing commercial license to a Helicopter commercial with Instruments. (ADD-ON)

Basically I am looking for a good school with decent prices and reliable machines as I may even go on to get my CFI(H) and CFII(H)

After my training I am looking at taking up a job with a company that operates Bells and Eurocopters and would like to make sure I get to the right school for the training.

Any information or advice would be highly appreciated from this forum.

Regards. .Zazoo

[Nodak Garth]

Try Vortex Helicopters in Long Beach Mississippi

[B Sousa]

<a href="http://www.heli.com" target="_blank">www.heli.com</a> Its a start and they respond to your inquires...

[vaqueroaero]

Civic Helicopters in Carlsbad California.. .Have a look at <a href="http://www.civichelicopters.com" target="_blank">www.civichelicopters.com</a>. .I did most of my training there, great place and good machines.

[The Nr Fairy]

Some of you will know I recently spent three weeks in the US, hour building towards the total I need to go on the UK/JAA CPL(H) modular course. Some of you may have an interest in knowing what I did and how I found things. This is for you. For those who've done more / been further, maybe the "I learnt this" bit at the end might prove useful. Most of the sight-seeing bits around the flying have been omitted in the interests of reducing boredom.

Monday 4th Feb. Go to Long Beach FSDO. Get told I can't get a new FAA licence based on my UK PPL(H) as I already have one from my last trip to the US. I need to ask the FAA to send a confirmatory fax - did that, go back tomorrow. Did 2.5 groundschool and the went and did 1.2 with Eduardo getting checked out solo - standard stuff like general flying, autos, emergencies, and the like.

Tuesday 5th. Go back to the FSDO, with all the paperwork, and the gent says "I don't think you can do that" when I ask to add my UK PPL(H) onto the existing US licence. Turns out I can, as I've not taken a US checkride. Panic over, go flying to French Valley for lunch, back via Fallbrook, overhead Oceanside, then the coast to Long Beach. All on my own, and I don't think I pissed many people off.

Wednesday 6th. Accompanied by Stuart, roomie of instructor at Rainbow. He's a qualified PPL(H), but sits changing freqs, map folding, and ( most important ) passing on much-needed nuggets of advice about the way flying happens round here. Go to Banning, Thermal ( as it's below sea level ), then Palm Springs for lunch. Back to LGB via the 10 ( into Ontario's airspace ) then the 605 - navigation has never been so simple !

Thursday 7th. Off to Rialto for fuel ( with Stuart on board, total to keep in CoG and MAUW is 14 USG ). Then via the Cajon Pass to Apple Valley - stop for late lunch. go to Victorville, get fuel after a long wait, then blat back to LGB just before official sunset. Take off sunnies to discover that it's not quite as dark as it seems with them on !

Friday 8th. Weathered off in the morning. Go to Camarillo via Downtown LA, Burbank and Van Nuys airspace. Return to Long Beach via Point Mugu, and follow the shoreline transition along the coast via LAX airspace at 150' or below !

Sunday 10th. Santa Ana winds blowing, so off to Torrance via Palos Verdes. Light turbulence, occasionally moderate. Quickstops at Torrance, then back to LGB to give up for the day as the wind is making it TOO sporty.

Monday 11th. Taking 139RJ away for the week. Have to go to Thermal ( stopping at Banning to scoff a banana while still running at 75% as I've got the blahs ) to pick up my credit card - only the one with the GBP10,000 credit limit - which I left there last week. Then via Yucca Valley to Hi Desert, ask a nice gent about best routes to Apple Valley and Bakersfield. Get to Bakersfield about 5pm. Long day.

Tuesday 12th. Weather to the north of Merced isn't looking to hot at the moment, so launch for Merced. Manage to track on height, on speed AND on heading ( mostly ), get to Merced and fuel up. Ask a nice US Cavalry pilot about negotiating San Francisco airspace. Then off to Cameron Air Park, which I don't hit first time - go a few miles past and on the left. Get there, meet Gary - a pilot working at the field - get chatting, and have lunch together. Then off to Nut Tree ( Vacaville ) and then San Jose via Buchanan and Livermore airspace. Approach to the Victor helipad is interesting - straight over the 3 runways, visual with a 737 on finals and the bizjet just taxiing clear of the helipad. Another long day.

Wednesday 13th. Slept crap. One and a half hours sleep, in a $100-a-night room next to some plant which switches on and off every five minutes. End up with toilet paper ear plugs, and my headset on, in an attempt to block the noise. Didn't fly - would have been criminal, plus wx is crap anyway.

Thursday 14th. Needed to get out of San Jose. Flew to San Carlos, reasonable weather in the Bay, did some circuits and landed to get an update. Off then to Monterey, following the 101. Cloudbase lowish - 800' to 900' AGL, so wires a concern. Navigating by roads ( and at one point, got low enough to read a confirmatory road sign ). Miss the next road junction, so end up coming at Monterey from the opposite direction, but as I was speaking to the Monterey controller, no real harm done. Discover I've left my wife's camera somewhere over the last few days. Not good.

Friday 15th. Off down the Salinas Valley. manage to get advice from a Marine King air pilot with 3000 hours in helis while at Monterey - plan to go, and have options if it gets nasty out there. Weather at Paso Robles unobtainable, and forecast to be crap so stop at Mesa Del Rey ( King City ) for fuel. Lowest c/base 800' - 900' AGL, but vis was ok. Some kind soul at the airport deigns to speak to me, tells me he's just come from Paso Robles and it's fine, so launch again. Cloud bases raise, then disappear, so straight through to Santa Barbara. Cleared to land on 15L from 5 miles out. Transitioning to the hover just over the numbers, controller says "I thought I cleared you to land on 15L." My plaintive and confused response - "I think that's where I am." Quick lunch, fill with fuel, then off with a decent tailwind via Point Mugu, shoreline transition ( AGAIN. This is getting commonplace ! ). End up back at LGB, glad to get out of the aircraft.

Sunday 17th. Down the coast to Palomar. Lunch. Pop into Civic Helicopters - closed, more or less. Launch back to LGB, wx over the coast crap, so circuits at Palomar. Wx seems to improve, so then off to the north. Over San Onofre restricted area ( up to 2000' ) finishing uip at the north end at 2100'. Phew. Off towards John Wayne airspace, speaking to SoCal approach, end up at 500' with rain and vis down to 3/4 mile. Quick 180 lefdt ( to avoid the land ), back to 900' and 3 miles. Waste 10 minutes by stooging up and down the coast, looks better, so north again. 500' but 3 miles - I'm ok with that, especially since we're over water. End up back at LGB after 2.7 hours for the day.

Monday 18th. Wx in LA basin not nice, if you're looking to go over the Cajon Pass. Discuss with Dave Parsons, decide to have a look and if it's crap, turn round and stop at Rialto. End up crossing the Cajon pass at the top end with 500' terrain clearance, and spotting the opposite direction Bell 222 well in time. Apple Valley ( haven't I been here before ? ) then Las Vegas. Bumpy, uncomfortable, but nav is easy - just follow the 15. Over the top of Mccarran International at 3500' ( about 1300 AGL ) then to North Las Vegas. Overnight at the MGM Grand, and pass a pleasant few ohurs with Bert Sousa talking about flying and drugs - the two are unconnected !!

Tuesday 19th. Off to Death Valley today. 1.5 hours later, there it is, spot on the nose. Land, and the guy from the gas station asks "Where in England are you from ?" I tell him and he says "It's nice there isn't it ?" Turns out he was ex-USAF, stationed at Fairford. Damn, what a small world. Postcards sent to prove my visit, then off again south out of the valley, pick up the 15, and back to Vegas. Get asked if I want to go 3500' or 500' AGL - microsecond's decision, then follow the 15 at 500' AGL past the strip !! Lunch at North Las Vegas, then off to Bullhead City.

Wednesday 20th. Flies swarming me while pre-flighting are told to **** off, but take no notice, which means the checks take longer. Off following the Colorado River southbound, stop at Blythe for fuel. Fueller doesn't seem to want me to ground the aircraft - I'm a tad unhappy with that. Then off towards Thermal, where vis goes from almost unlimited down to 6 or 7 miles. Fuel at Million Air then off to Palm Springs for lunch. Just climbing away from the transition ( i.e. busy ) having been cleared for a left downwind departure and controller asks if I can accept a right downwind departure. "I can, if you're ok with me crossing over the runway centrelines." That's ok with him and still ok with me, so off towards LGB. Ontario controller must recognise me - "Are you going to Long Beach" is asked unprompted ! End up at LGB, don't want to get back in a helicopter, missing home, say "That's it".

So, what did I learn ? My personal limits are 500' AGL and 3 miles - anything less and it's a 180 to better or find a field. Increase the limits if terrain is hilly. Learnt it IS possible to fly a Robbie for more than 10 seconds in a straight line at the same speed and same height. Learnt that my decision making process is very conservative, but I'm happy with that. Learnt that flying in the US is a) cheap and b) is you ask nicely anything's possible. Leanr I need to slow down with my actions - fly the aircraft, and sneak a glance at the map, don';t pick it up and stare at it like it's the lasty naked woman you're ever going to see, because then the speed / height / heading goes out of the window. Don't rush and make big control movements, take your time and make small ones because they're more easily contained. Learn that 50 minute phone call to wife costs $100. EEEEEk. Learnt that Bert Sousa is a nice guy, and enjoyed a good yak and got some good advice off him. Learnt you can get $30 off the Island Express trip to Catalina in a Squirrel if you mention you're a helicopter pilot. Totalled 48.2 hours in 4 pages of log book and under 3 weeks, compared to 85 hours in the last 3 years.

Next stop, modular course !! Only problem, my shares have dived to 30% of their value before I left, so if anyone's got some spare money, it would be most welcome !!!

Postscript. Monday 25th Feb. My birthday. Wifey's not wrapped any presents, got to go back to work ( still jetlagged ), and I can't believe I was actually in the US just 4 days ago !

[Heliport]

What a great post!. .Thanks for taking the trouble to write it. You obviouly had a fantastic time.

When you've got some spare time, could you expand on a couple of points:

(1) R22 SFH costs in California? Any significant additional costs to be allowed for, apart from travel/accommodation obviously?

(2) What exactly do you have to do to get an FAA PPL if you've got a CAA PPL. (ie a full stand-alone PPL which would still be valid even if your CAA licence lapsed.)

[Whirlybird]

That's brilliant Nr Fairy, thanks a lot. As you know, I'm off to LA to do some flying in six weeks, so I'm printing out that little lot so that I can read it at leisure.

[Rotorbike]

Glad Rainbow Air looked after you!!

:)

[The Nr Fairy]

"Obviously had a fantastic time" doesn't even begin to cover it. Pity I was on my own - rather took a little bit of fun away.

R22 SFH costs - I went with a school which, for an upfront $1500, charged $142 wet. If you bought fuel while away, you were reimbursed at the school's fuel rate of just under $2 per gallon, and I got lots of practice in refuelling the little beastie. Other school's rates were in the same ball park. Other costs, assuming you have a valid UK medical and PPL(H), are minimal. Charts are about $8 apiece - I got two of most of the areas I went to. Have you ever tried to refold a paper map one-handed in a small cockpit ?

If you're in LA or somewhere else with poor public transport, figure on hiring a car - $160 for a week's hire from Avis.

Accomodation - check with the school. Rainbow has a deal with a local hotel, as do most of the others, and a clean and tidy room will set you back the grand total of $40 / day. While travelling, most places you stop can recommend hotels at the $50 - $80 mark. Most I paid was $149, and that was in San Jose, but I was knackered, bored, pissed off and in no mood to haggle.

As for getting a US PPL, if you've never gone to the US, then it's straighforward. Go to an FAA FSDO, give them your UK licence and medical and a completed application form, and while you wait they'll provide a temporary US Airman's certificate so you can fly solo. This is the same as a US PPL, and is valid as long as the UK licence is valid. If you already have such a licence, then you can add other UK or foreign ratings to the licence very simply.

As for Rainbow, Rotorbike, the machines worked fine - no mechanical problems at all since they're well looked after. More than can be said for their premises, hope they look after the new ones a bit better !

[B Sousa]

Glad to see you made it back. By the way, Im spending this week in Cameron Park, while a friend of mine is at his sales meeting in the Bahamas. (Dassault/Falcon Jet)

For those who might not understand, I need to clarify your statement on Flying and Drugs. It comes from my 27 Years in Law Enforcement. As ackowledged in "The Tin Man" by Dale Brown and "Death Dealers" by Yves Lavigne.. For sale at <a href="http://www.amazon.com" target="_blank">www.amazon.com</a>

If your flying through Vegas again, Beer is on me.

[Rotorbike]

It's 6 years since I was in LA and I'm willing to put money that I was the last to paint that old building..... AND I wasn't paid!!!

It needed knocking down then!!! <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[Heliport]

Nr Fairy. .Sorry my question was unclear. What I meant was ...

If you already have a CAA PPL and would like to get a full FAA PPL (not just a Temporary Airman's Certificate dependent upon your CAA PPL being current), what do you have to do?. .What do you mean by "if you've never gone to the US, then it's straighforward.". .If you have been to the US before, and held a Temporary Airman's Certificate years ago, is the procedure different?

(Apologies for pursuing this point, but I was asked this by a PPL recently, and didn't know the answer.)

[r22dave]

Great post!

I thought i recently read somewhere about a FAR AIM that stopped people who convert their license from flying R22's if they have less than 200hrs.

If you were hour building I must have it around my neck.

[B Sousa]

OK, Temp vs. Full... .This should be very simple. Based on FAR 61.75 you go into the FAA FSDO provide your current Foreign License either Fixed Wing or Helicopter or whatever, and are issued a US FAA License based on your Foreign License. The highest level will be a U.S. Private License. NO COST&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt; For anything other than that, ie. Commercial, ATP, you must comply with the FARs; meaning writtens, check rides etc. The private License will be a temporary as all the information goes to FAA Headquarters where a permanent License will follow to the address listed. Therin lies one problem. Our U.S. License is like a bus ticket, just a simple postcard. When mailed to a foreign address they sometimes get lost. IF your temp expires, contact FAA HQ and verify it was issued and mailed. You can apply for a new one if it was lost. Here are a couple of sites for you to check on U.S. license holders. <a href="http://www.landings.com" target="_blank">www.landings.com</a> scroll down to Search databases and go from there. <a href="http://www.avweb.com/toc/database.html" target="_blank">http://www.avweb.com/toc/database.html</a> also works for Licenses. Remember these are NOT necessarily current but are a good tool.. .So if one had a temp. license some time ago, there may be a permanent issued but lost. Most of these databases are current ONLY because the Airman Medical is current. Another difference here in the states. Our Licenses are issued forever. They are current based on the FARs and logged time. We also are only allowed to fly if the Airman Medical for the class used is current.......its all in the FARs....

As to the Robbie Warriors and Limitations its in the FARs as SFAR 73 to Part 61. Its a bunch of words and numbers which translates to, they must be scary little things. Basically states NO PIC unless you have 200 hours helicopters of which 50 are in the R-22 or R-44... . Good Luck

[ 02 March 2002: Message edited by: B Sousa ]</p>

[The Nr Fairy]

Bert :

No offence intended, my apologies if I gave the wrong impression.

[rotorfan]

Nr,. .. .Great diary! I did some R22 flying from John Wayne while in the L.A. area on business. It wasn't nearly as extensive as your trip, but loads of fun, even though stomach was churning from bad lunch earlier in Phoenix airport. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> (Perhaps "bad lunch" and "airport" in the same sentence is redundant.) The best part was confined area work and zooming around down in the canyons nearby. Hadn't had that opportunity before, since the nearest canyons to my home are hundreads of miles away. Thanks for bringing back good memories. Glad you had a good time.. . . . <small>[ 03 March 2002, 05:24: Message edited by: rotorfan ]</small>

[George Semel]

Well sounds like you had a good time. I did the SFAR 73 thing for the R-22 some years ago to see what they were all about. Like anything they have there good and bad points. Now as for Bert, well he is just a legend. Oh and dam good pilot too. . .. .Now as for me I'm looking at converting my FAA Certificates to UK/JAA. My guess it will not be easy or cheap.

[Heliport]

George. .You're right.. .Nothing in aviation which includes any one or more of the following is either cheap or easy ..... . .UK . .CAA . .JAA . .JAR . . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />

[B Sousa]

George, I was right, you are a rich Cranberry farmer from the Northeast. Why dont you buy a Helicopter and I will fly for you.....Providing its in the SW...... .If you go to the UK, dont do it to change your license, do it to drink Beer...besides who wants to fly a robbie anyway....You want a JAA, go to (www.heli.com) either way it will cost you good Beer money.

[Check 6]

Bert is a good helo pilot, even for a "former Marine." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[B Sousa]

Thanks Stu......blush..... Hey Roberto is on his way to Italy, did he email you?? Two weeks vacation..

[72jetjok]

Hi,. .. .hope this is the right forum for this question: l'm a fixed wing commercial pilot but have always wanted to try some rotary flying. I'm spending 2 weeks in Florida in June and wondered if anyone could recommend somewhere to take 2 or 3 lessons, and also which helicopter might be best for the purpose?

[B Sousa]

Try <a href="http://www.heli.com" target="_blank">www.heli.com</a>

[cyclic flare]

In Orlando area at Kissimmee airfield try Orlando flight training. They one r22.

I found at Ford Lauderdale there are two operaters.

Volar Helicopters 8 R22's 1 R44 B206 etc

Heliflight as above

Reccommend Volar it was the only school that would EOL's to the ground.

[RW-1]

I certainly enjoy flying at Volar ....

Com Checkride: T- 3 days ...... :rolleyes:

[Hi Flyer]

I did my PPL studies with Helicopter Adventures Inc. based at Space Coast Airport in Titusville, FLORIDA (approx half an hours drive from Orlando)

Very professional with a good reputation. They operate approx 17 Schweizers and 3/4 R22's.

Well worth contacting them.

[Whirlybird]

Hi friends. I've now been in the LA area just over a week, and thought I'd post this for anyone else from Europe who's thinking of doing the same thing, or for anyone who's just interested. I'll do it in stages, when I have time, and if anyone wants to ask me anything, I'll answer it when I have time and Internet access.

Since I had a JAR CPL(H) and 200 hours, and wanted another 100 in order to do an instructors' course, my plan was to get the hours and as much different flying experience as possible on a couple of different trips overseas, as and when I could afford it. Having had my fingers burned instruction-wise in the UK, I try not to go anywhere now without at least one recommendation. In December I started asking around, and several people recommended Kevin Eastman of Rotor Aviation, based at Long Beach, CA. After several phone calls and e-mails, I'd arranged to do the R44 transition (conversion in UK-speak), the B206 transition and some cheap hour building with one of the traffic watch guys, and some R22 fun flying. I may want a job, but I fly helis mainly for FUN. the problem is, it's expensive fun, and long term I'll need to be paid to continue. OK, here's the story so far:

Wed 10th April.
Flew to LAX. Kevin had offered to pick me up, and was an hour late due to traffic in LA. We eventually found each other, and he drove me to Irene's house in Orange County, about 6 miles from LGB. I was staying there for $11 a night (it's gone up to $15 now). Kevin had given me a choice of accommodation, but I prefer to spend my money on flying.

Thur 11th April
Kevin picked me up and took me to LGB for a tour of Airflite, where he has an office - huge fancy building with lots of facilities. I'm impressed, but daunted by the sheer size of everything - I'm used to little grass airfields, help!!! He arranges a hire car and I manage to negotiate the LA traffic (this is my first time here) to the FSDO office to get a US temporary licence. I've brought my PPL(A) too, and get one to cover me for both - really straightforward. I drive back to Irene's, getting lost (first time of many).

Fri 12th April
I'd arranged to start off with the R44 transition, hoping to learn about US airspace, radio use etc, as we go along. I realise early on it's more complicated than that - very very different over here. But we manage two hours flying and a couple of hours groundschool. It goes OK, but jet lag is beginning to hit, LGB circuits, approaches etc, look horrendous, and I wonder if I'll ever dare fly solo here - I feel like a complete beginner!!!

Sat 13th April
Finish R44 transition, which is nice. Since I intend to fly in the UK, the only real reason to do it was to learn to fly the R44; I don't need the paperwork. But why not do it properly. In the UK, with a CPL, you only need whatever it takes to get it added to your licence, so hopefully just an hour or so when I get back. I'm even more tired and scared, so ask if I can do some dual on Sunday, learning how to get in and out of this terrifying huge airport.

Sun 14th April
Weather is crap, but we can fly locally if I'm with an instructor - they call it Special VFR here. For the US people, in the UK SVFR is somewhat different. Anyway, no point in leaving the airfield into the fog, so I get used to LGB circuits - tight turns round buildings and finding tiny helispots between two active runways - it begins to be fun. Then we do 180 autos from 500 ft and other fun things you rarely do in the UK. Maybe I like it here after all. Jet lag beginning to go. In the afternoon I drive 50 miles on the freeway (help!!) to Van Nuys, in the San Fernando Valley, where I'll be staying with a friend of Philippe, the B206 traffic watch guy. He's also an instructor, which is why I'm flying with him and not Commander Chuck, as that way the CAA can hardly query the hours, I hope. I meet Philippe, and get introduced to Carlos, where I'm staying (and this is his computer).

Right, next instalment later; I have groundschool and flying.

[RW-1]

Don't you love the 180's from 500? :p

Hey,

I remember your "circle to land at my doorstep" when you visited hehehe .... so LA is larger, don't worry about it.

Sounds like you are enjoying yourself!

[Whirlybird]

Yes RW-1, the 180 autos were great fun, especially as the instructor kept telling me how good I was - well, you always like that don't you. Anyway, where was I...

Mon 15th April
Up at 4.30 am (groan). Unfortunately I get over jet lag fast, so this feels like the middle of the night. Carlos is already up; he starts work early. He's also made a pot of coffee - this lookks like a good place to stay. At 5.30 I drive the six miles to Van Nuys airport to meet Philippe, as traffic watch starts at 6 am. It's pouring with rain and cold - what happened to sunny southern California. But we fly around at about 500 ft below the clouds, with me trying to get used to the B206 and following freeways - but LA looks like a massive sea of concrete in all directions and I can't distinguish anything. The rain after lots of dry wx has made the roads slippery and there are heaps of accidents on the freeways - mildly exciting if you like that sort of thing. Then we go to a rather good French bakery for a second breakfast, then two hours ground school. Back again at 4pm for more flying; this time the wx is better, but LA still looks like a sea of buildings for 60 miles in all directions.

Tues 16th April
Same as Monday, but wx better, and I'm getting used to the B206. In between looking for traffic snarl-ups, we go to a couple of practice areas and i get to do circuits and hovering. I find it hard; the B206 doesn't like being treated like a R22, or even a R44; it's very different. Philippe is a good instructor, but at $120 an hour I wouldn't complain if he wasn't, and I'm having a lot of fun. In the afternoon we fly along the coast, including the shoreline transition at 150 ft. We also fly right between the buildings downtown, wow! I like being in a country with no 500 ft rule.

Wed 17th April
Same as Tuesday, but light dawns!!!. I've been studying the helicopter route chart all week, but suddenly - I can recognise freeways! :) :) :) Eureka!!! LA doesn't look like a sea of concrete - it has areas, and mountains, and downtown to help you orientate yourself. We've been flying some routes everyday, and now I can say: is it south down the 405 and east on the 10 again, and similar, and know where to go. We've also done fun things like fly over Beverley Hills and famous people's homes - Philippe, you have control, I wanna photo. And more circuits, hovering, etc when time, and I really like this helicopter - I want one!!! Any millionaires out there want to marry me and buy me a helicopter? In the few hours I have off I even manage to go sightseeing - drive through Topanga Canyon to the coast, look at the beach, go shopping in Santa Monica. This was a Bad Idea, with 5 hours flying a day plus groundschool, as I end up completely exhausted and go to bed about 8 pm.

Thur 18th April
More of same, but that's not a complaint; this is fun. In the afternoon we manage to fly over the mountiains to the north of LA and do some interesting flying there. And having been through the whole B206 book, I get to do the A check, which takes ages. Tomorrow should be the last day, then it's back to Long Beach on Saturday.

Right, that's up to date so far. More when I've time.

[tigerpic]

here's a tip on how to learn the freeways/highways in la area. get a copy of the terminal chart. look on the back side where there is a vfr planning route chart for airplanes. it has all the roads you need for flying traffic/news. highlight them with colours and write down the freeway numbers (405, 5, etc). there is plenty of room to also note the reporting points you need. took me some time to prepare, but great assistance when flying. you can also put down frequencies, etc. worked for me when i flew for abc 7.

btw, tell 'tv 7' hi from finn if you get the chance to hear them in the sky. =)

[Draco]

Keep the info coming, I'm enjoying it. sounds like you are too.

R

[B Sousa]

Cut the Cord Lady......there are better places to see than the LA Basin......Come on over to Vegas, We have been having 40-70 Knot winds, makes you work a bit harder........In fact as I look out the window this morning, its severe clear and windy.......

[pilotwolf]

Hi!

Glad to hear you having a good time. Learnt to fly out of LGB. Have to say can't beat it - never matched it in the UK.

Give Kevin my regards if you see him again.

Don't forget the low level LAX transistion if you get the chance.

S.

[i2gofly]

I am enjoying this topic also....please keep it coming Whirlybird! :cool:

[Whirlybird]

Ok, comments/answers first...

tigerpic, just looked at the LA terminal area chart as you suggested. Good idea, a much more manageable size than the heli route chart. I won't need the colour coding, as I pretty much know the freeways now, but that'll help make sure I don't bust any airspace. Thanks a lot.

Bert, I will cut the cord, in my own time. What's the rush? I know how to fly cross country, this other stuff is more fun. But unless plans change, I have an R22 booked for next Friday and Saturday, to fly to Vegas. I'll give you a call and let you know definitely later in the week. That'll probably be the only long cross country I do, as I don't really get off on long cross countries in the R22, and I've done loads back home. I'd rather do shorter trips and mountain flying and pinnacles and stuff. There's a limit to what you can learn flying across the desert following a freeway. But I hope to see you soon.

pilotwolf, I'm driving back to Long Beach tomorrow, and will drop in and see Kevin when I get there, or on Sunday to fly if I do too much sightseeing on the way down. I'll tell him hi, but from whom? I'm based at LGB for the rest of the trip.

Right, to continue...

Fri 19th April
I'm totally, utterly, and completely knackered! I've done about 7 hours flying today, and I'm glad I didn't plan to drive back to Long Beach tonight, as I could barely drive to where I'm staying. Three hours this morning, doing the grand tour, all of LA county North to South and East to West, following the coast for miles including the shoreline transition past LAX for the second time, looking at seals and dolphins barely 100 ft below us, great fun. Then into ground school and the start up and how not to do hot starts. Then nearly three hours flying for the transition, doing just about every sort of auto there is, all to the area we were using north of LA, landing on a small area between trees by a river. Then hydraulic failure, and the ****** made me hover it, wouldn't let me do a run on landing! Closest I've ever come to bursting into tears while flying a helicopter, and my shoulders still ache. Can't remember what we did next, but there was more. When we got back to Van Nuys we had to hover for ages while two f/w aircraft sorted out how to leave. Finally landed, got my log book signed etc for the week, and staggered out, with the world rocking like I'd been on a boat for a week. It's been a good week, and I thoroughly recommend Philippe for anyone wanting to do the same thing - see his ad in JustHelicopters for details (Heliclass). And no, I didn't check what the CAA think of the hours.

I'm having a day off tomorrow, driving back to Long Beach, sightseeing as I go. Sunday I'm hopefully flying with an instructor to get LGB procedures etc sorted out, Monday doing some local stuff alone, Tuesday flying to Santa Barbara to visit some old friends, Wednesday maybe Catalina, or Big Bear, or Palm Springs, not sure, Thursday the Robinson factory tour, Friday and Saturday Las Vegas. After that I'll see. If I can get on Kevin's PC I'll post more when I can.

[Flying Lawyer]

Great posts Whirlybird. Keep them coming.

Catalina is a good trip, although more challenging in a f/w than a heli - when you see the approach, you'll know what I mean! The buffalo-burgers in the airport cafe are worth trying.
Palm Springs is not a bad trip but mostly over the desert and you'll do that en route to Vegas.
Consider flying down the coast to San Diego. It's a fabulous trip (<100 miles from memory) and San Diego has the most beautiful harbour in the world. Stunning!
Assuming it's still possible post 9/11, you get a wonderful view by flying out to Point Loma (under Mil control) and then crossing the bay near the Coronado Bridge (under SD International control.)

I agree about the low level transition at LAX. Great fun. Do they still allow you to use the rooftop helipad post 9/11?

Another tip you might find useful ..... Robinson test fly all helicopters before release. Officially they don't allow visitors to go up with the test pilots, but it's not impossible. If you manage to persuade them, you'll see the complete flight envelope demonstrated by a factory specialist. Very interesting!

(Enviously)
Tudor Owen:)

Hope ithe wx improves enough for you to fly the R22 with the door off. A little strange at first, but great fun when you get used to it. Real "Whirlybird" flying!!

[muffin]

You sound like you are enjoying yourself. The only rotary flying I did in the US last year was an R44 trip low level from Montgomery Field in San Diego, down the coast and over the aircraft carriers at Coronado. Absolutely terrific. Try it if you get the chance.

See you when you get back

Cheers

[The Nr Fairy]

Whirly :

Thermal is only 15 minutes further on from Palm Springs, worth a stop for fuel, but go back to PS, stop off at Millionaire and eat at the restaurant just outside there. Worth the extra hour or so if you want a below MSL airfield in the logbook.

My turn to be jealous of you !

[Whirlybird]

Sat 20th April
No flying today. I woke up at 7.30 am, feeling better for over 10 hours sleep! Drove back to Long Beach via Topanga Canyon, then spent several hours in Venice, shopping, having a Chinese massage to get the hydraulic failure kinks out of my shoulders, people watching on the boardwalk, and envying the owners of the houses on the canals. Drove round Culver City in circles trying to find my way on to the freeway, arggg...maybe finding my way in the air is easier. Just got back to Rotor Aviation, and decided to post anyway, even if it's not aviation orientated really.

Nr Fairy, Thanks; I may do that, but I now have this long list of places to go to, and only 10 days left! How can you be jealous of me? You did loads, and went loads of places I'm not going, having spent a week flying the freeways. But that was my decision, so I'm happy with it.

Flying Lawyer, I was definitely planning to visit Catalina, hopefully in the next few days. San Diego's on the list if time. I don't know about the rooftop helipad, and thanks for the hint about test flying R22s; I fancy that if I can wangle it.

Muffin, I'll hopefully fly into your field and tell you all the news sometime when I get back.

BTW, I want to do one hour f/w flying, just to get a US airfield in my log book; anyone know who at LGB I should go to?

[B Sousa]

I almost forgot to mention. Since your in Long Beach, make sure you have a meal at "The Claimjumper". Ultimate in Pilot food. Also if you want to visit any of the Law Enforcement Air Wings, give me a shout, I have a few friends over there who would show you around.

[Whirlybird]

Sun 21st April

I have two sessions booked with an instructor; gotta crack this LA airspace and radio and so on. First one I tell Tim I want to do every departure and approach there is, and he's to MAKE me do the radio. He takes me at my word; we go out up to downtown, across Santa Monica's airspace, shoreline transition at 150 ft talking to LAX, through Torrance, across LGB again, then turn east, then...can't remember; I was probably on serious overload by then. I come back and he tells me all I need is to relax!!!! Argggggghhh!!!! Nr Fairy, you have my total respect, and amazement, at being able to cope after just a day or two. I console myself by remembering that you'd flown in the US before, and this is my first time. However, for anyone else thinking of doing this, do remember I was a writer and storyteller long before I became a heli pilot, so I'm a little prone to exaggeration. But only a little; this is tough for someone who learned to fly at a little one runway airfield in the UK and thinks twice before going through Liverpool's zone. Good experience though. Anyway, after lunch Tim says I'm doing it ALL myself this time; we go out to the coast and head south to Dana Point, buzz the pier and wave at the people, and do a pinnacle approach - apparently fun is allowed sometimes. Then through John Wayne airspace which is military and they speak even faster - do they really speak English over here? Sometimes I wonder as I can't understand them. We come back via the freeways; my choice ; Tim said go back the same route if I want, but I decide to make life difficult, and get so tired I can hardly land it in the strong crosswind that's suddenly appeared - didn't know they had wind over here. But I cope with the radio and feel like I can finally do this alone. I'm a slow learner - but I get there in the end.

So tomorrow is the Big Day. I'm finally going out on my own; gonna fly to French Valley, maybe meet Tim there and play in the mountains, maybe just have lunch and fly back. Oh ****, now I've told everyone I can't back out can I? Nr Fairy, not deliberately copying you, but seemed like a good place to go, and not many control towers for me to annoy.

I'm having second thoughts about Vegas as there's so much I want to do, and I'm now running out of time. Two whole days of mainly crossing desert may have to go, if I want to go to Catalina, Big Bear, Palm Springs, Santa Barbara, and San Diego, and I do. And I don't want to turn this into a marathon which I don't enjoy; I've flown nearly 35 hours already,and should get the 50 I was aiming for easily. So Bert, I'm really sorry I won't get to meet you, and I'd love to visit any Law Enforcement Air Wings over here if you can arrange it. I can be contacted through Kevin Eastman at Rotor Aviation on 562.595.6867.

[Whirlybird]

Mon 22nd April
Flew myself to French Valley, lovely trip of an hour or so. Met Tim, the instructor who lives near there, and did a bit of mountain flying with him - pinnacle approaches, flying low down a canyon etc. Great fun. Flew back in strong wind over the mountains - climbing with 17 inches!!!!!! But I'm a little person and it was a R22BII, and a strong wind. All went well till I couldn't get an answer from Los Alimitos, didn't want to bust their airspace, so headed for the coast and an arrival I hadn't planned. No real problem, and got told Los Al was probably closed; oh well. Tomorrow I'm off to Santa Barbara.

[RW-1]

I've got to find the $$$ Tree Whirly is drawing from, or start drawing my own $$$ to pass about hehe ....

You go girl, having fun like that ! :D

[Tom the Tenor]

Fabulous account you are giving of your trip to California, Whirly! Unputdownable, so to speak. Enjoy the remainder of your adventure.

[Whirlybird]

Tues 23rd April
Flew to Santa Barbara today. Nick, who's here from the UK doing a PPL and about a week off his check ride (Skills Test in UK-speak), decided to come with me, to navigate and generally get experience, and I like having someone to fly with and chat to. We got slightly lost on the freeways, but basically got from Long Beach to the coast via downtown LA, which meant we didn't have to go through anyone's airspace. Then a fantastic trip along the coastline, till we got to Mugu, some military something or other; they weren't allowing anyone in their airspace at all due to an accident over the weekend. Low cloudbase and haze, so couldn't go inland over the hills and didn't fancy 5 miles out to sea, so retraced our steps to better wx, over the mountains at nearly 3000 ft to hit the freeway, followed that, then back by the coast. Got to Santa Barbara, where I was meeting an old friend I've known since I was nine years old, who lives there; last saw her about five years ago. Lunch, long chat, took her husband up for a quick spin; she didn't want to go. Lazed in the sun, then managed to get all the way back along the coast as the Mugu restriction had been lifted. About 300 ft all the way, and the LAX shoreline transition at below 150 ft. Absolutely fantastic, and I can now cope with the radio. 4.2 hours flying, and I'm knackered, but it was a wonderful day.

RW-1, the money tree was an inheritance, which is running out fast, but may just get me to an instructors course, if I work and save a little bit too. After that it's get paid to fly, or maybe do the odd half hour once a month or so. But I don't care; I'm having such fun.

Catalina Island tomorrow, wx permitting. Watch this space.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Thats the spirit Whirly, do it now when you can.

Tomorrow may never come.

Fly safe:

Cat Driver

................
:D The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.:D

[RotorHorn]

You'll have to do a top ten list of places to visit when you get chance....

And you've given me an idea for this years summer holiday - not that Mrs. Horn will want to go , but my twin brother is an FE/ATPL(H) and I'm sure he like to go two-up to the US!!

Any photos yet? (not that it sounds like you have a hand free or anything!).

Still jealous.

This serialisation is better than Eastenders...

:D

[stevechowles]

Reading this is reminding me of my trip to Long Beach last November. It was mainly a mountain flying course. I did a trip from Long Beach to Palm Springs, Grand Canyon, Las Vegas, Big Bear and back to Long Beach. Did it in 12 hours in an R22, taught me a heck of allot.

Grand Canyon was a running landing at night and it was great to fly into Las Vegas airport with the controller talking me in. This would never happen at Heathrow.

Big Bear was high altitude training so more running landings and takeoffs.

Catalina is great fun, just make sure you do it 50 foot above the waves. Did it also in a 44 and have some great video footage.

If you get a chance to fly with a Robinson safety pilot, get him to show you some engine failures on takeoff. This was something never taught to me.

By the way, have you got use to flying over Long Beach at 500ft, still scares the hell out of me.

Have fun

[RW-1]

Ok, someone here close to death and rich please add me to their will, I have some serious time to build hehe .... :D

I promise the $$$ will be well spent, and I'll make sure the finest casket is used for you at the site of your choice if burial is preferred.

Good going whirly. I have $$$ too, just using it for the training though, wouldn't mind getting some turbine later on, seems a person up in Lantana is doing something to the tune of $100 an hour, possible traffic flights, have to check it out .... :)


Tell us more when you can, if you are not sleeping it all off.

[Whirlybird]

Wed 24th April
Didn't sleep well, too excited after wonderful flight (I'm like a little kid at times), and also had a mild stomach upset (too much lunch in Santa Barbara?). Didn't feel that great in the morning today, but flying to Catalina with Sergio, a CPL with about the same number of hours as me; met him a few days ago here, and he too likes to fly with someone else and chat, so planned to go together. So I figured I'd be safe to fly with someone else along. Had the instrument R22, which I'd never flown, so Sergio flew us out. Nearly didn't go as it was raining!!!!!! Not allowed; this is sunny southern California, not the UK. Having discovered you can phone and get a wx brief and talk to a Real Person, not like in the UK, I now make the most of it. I phoned and said although all TAFS and METARs looked fine, it was raining hard, and did he know anything. He gave me latest reports, of a low to the west, with details of cloubase etc, and it sounded OK - Catalina's only about 30 miles anyway. So Sergio flew us over the ocean to this beautiful island, with a runway on a hill at 1600 ft - slopes at both ends and must be hairy for f/w, as Flying Lawyer pointed out. By the time we got there the sun was shining, and we had lunch looking out over this absolutely beautiful island. Then I flew us back; by now I was feeling better, or I did as soon as I started flying anyway. Managed to get all the radio calls right and land without scaring either myself or Sergio. A good day.

I'm doing an hour's night flying over the city with an instructor tonight, just to see what it's like. Tomorrow I'm going on the Robinson factory tour; I may fly the 0.3 hr to Torrance to save a long drive, other than that I'm having a day off flying; I've done about 42 hours since I've been here and I'm really really tired. But less than a week to go, and so much I still want to do!

[i2gofly]

Hey Whirlybird,

May I ask what your cost have been to achieve the 42 hours of flight time? I am more interested in the average cost per flight hour.

Thanks,

Ruben

[Whirlybird]

Right, I'll try and answer questions etc first...

i2, I haven't worked out the average cost yet; I intend to, at the end. I think I'll find that with the cost of coming over here etc, it'll be about the same as the cost back in the UK. But out of that I've got a free holiday (if an exhausting and stressful one), learned to fly two new helis, got a lot of instruction, learned loads, and had a fantastic time. But I'll give you details later.

Steve, I just LOVE this low level flying - LGB at 500, and the LAX transition at 150. I can't get enough of it! I'm gonna have to be real careful when I get home, where they won't let me do it. :(

Rotorhorn, I have pics, but not that I can post; don't have a digital camera, sorry. I keep giving my camera to co-pilots, who waste lots of film for me. Top ten places? Nr Fairy may be better for that; he went more places. But I'll do my best, and mine will be different from his I guess.

Wed 24th April (continued)
Did an hour's flying with Kevin, who runs Rotor Aviation (who I highly recommend - better say that; he might read this and it's his PC ;) But I do recommend him, seriously) A tour over LA, across LAX at 1500 ft, shoreline transition past Santa Monica Pier all lighted up, Hollywood, downtown, back to LGB. The city looks beautiful at night. I could have done it alone, but I'd probably have got lost. But these guys have it easy, compared to the night flying I've done - trying not to fly into clouds and hills back home.

Off to Robinson factory tour soon. Avoiding the traffic by flying to Torrance. Tell you all more later.

[Whirlybird]

Thursday 25th April
Just back from Robinson Factory Tour. I thoroughly recommend it. Nice to fly in; you can just park at the back. I rather like this commuting by heli. Torrance is quiet and not at all like LGB; I just told the ATCO I was unfamiliar with the airport and asked him to direct me, and he did. When I came to leave he asked me to hover taxi to taxiway Alpha, and when I asked where it was, an amused voice answered: "Just go back the way you came". Anyway, the factory tour is really interesting; I recommend it. I also managed to buy a special cushion that fits R22 and R44 seats; I've wanted one for ages. I would have got the cushion cheaper if I'd been buying a helicopter; well I was tempted, but...
Got lost on the ten miles or so of concrete jungle back to LGB, but arrived with no major mishaps; just 0.4 hr instead of 0.3.

Spending the rest of the afternoon on PPRuNe, as there's a talk here tonight on helicopter flying by Don Shaffer, who I haven't heard of, but most other people seem to have. So no point in driving back to where I'm staying. A free afternoon on PPRuNe; just like home really.

[Heliport]

Thanks for the updates Whirlybird.
So did you try the buffalo burgers at Catalina Airport?
What did you think of the setup at Robinson? Impressive isn't it.
You understandably love the greater freedom the FAA way of doing things gives you. I think it places more responsibility on the pilot to use judgement properly, but at least they treat qualified pilots like qualified pilots capable of making judgements.

Perhaps you could give us your views on the American style of aviating when you get back. Simpler and more sensible low flying rules, perhaps?

Hope you get to San Diego. Low level right down the coast, but watch out for the US Army Apaches on the way!

[Whirlybird]

Heliport,

I'm a vegetarian! However, if it hadn't been for a mild stomach upset I might have tried the buffalo burgers anyway, but I didn't dare.

I was impressed with the Robinson factory, very much so. The woman doing the tours really knows a lot too, especially for someone who doesn't fly. Unfortunately you're not allowed to take pics.

Our low flying rules are really over the top. And the Americans seem to use helicopters as helicopters, whereas the Brits almost use them as substitute aeroplanes.

I'm looking forward to San Diego; any problems with getting through that Restricted area on the coast on the way?

[The Nr Fairy]

Heliport - I was just about to say something about the San Onofre restricted area when Whirlybird mentioned it !

It's because ( partially ) of the nuclear power station at San Onofre, but the restriction stops at about ( from memory, Whirly has my charts ) 200' MSL, so as long as the cloud base is OK there's not a problem. Or - and this wouldn't be my option without a lifejacket and contact with some sort of controller - you can avoide it at any height by detouring over the sea about a mile offshore.

[Flying Lawyer]

Whirlybird
I had no difficulties.
The only minor problems were holding for quite a long time before the Mil controllers answered VHF calls, and understanding them when they did!
There's a Marine Corps base on the coast at Camp Pendleton. No problems being cleared through when I was there, but they are America’s "9-1-1 Force In Readiness" so you'll need to make sure things haven't changed. Lots of interesting helicopters to see, if you like mil helicopters!
The restricted area is a nuclear power station on the coast line not far from Camp Pendleton. I can't remember the name (San Something!), and I haven't got US charts to hand, but it was no problem at all.

When you speak to the Mil as you approach San Diego, get clearance to fly out to Point Loma (easily identified).
When you get to Point Loma, tell the controller you want to route to Downtown, crossing at the Coronado Bridge. (Enormous bridge you can't miss as a nav point.) The Mil controller obtained clearance for me from San Diego International and then handed me over. SD Int are more helpful than many small UK airfields.) Don't be afraid to explain you're sightseeing, say you want to follow the coastline north and they'll help if they can. The only slight problem is you'll probably have to stay low level. (Don't you just hate that!!! ;) )
You'll see the US Navy mothball fleet at Coronado and the Coronado Hotel, a very distinctive old red rooofed building used by Edward and Mrs Simpson.
As you cross the harbour towards downtown San Diego, the view is stunning and, as you fly back up the coast, you'll fly over a series of beautiful bays.

Some instructors in the LA/Long Beach area will tell you the coastline route to San Diego is too difficult because "like you have to speak to the military and all that". Don't listen to them. It can be done and it's worth it. Southern Cailifornia is one of the most beautiful places in the world, and San Diego is the jewel in the crown.

If you have time to visit San Diego (recommended), then Montgomery Field is the obvious choice but, if you just need fuel, then Palomar a smaller friendly airport on the coast near Carlsbad is much easier than going over to Montgomery which is off route, a major GA airfield and can be very busy.

Woops! Just seen the time. Off to Court.
'Enjoy' as some of our American friends say! :)

Tudor

[pilotwolf]

Hi Whirly,

Never had any problems or delays through Long Rifle area. First time I went down to San Diego I flew to San Diego International and was routed between the comerical traffic, at one point we were number 3 to a 757 and asked to expedite our approach due to following traffic - a 737!

Only thing I will say is return up the coast in day light! The cliff and mountains are hard t see in the dark - I done it - slowly with landing light on and cliff edge in view all the way to Dana Point! NOT recommended!

Fly safe.

[Whirlybird]

Thanks, Flying Lawyer and pilotwolf.

I was supposed to go to Big Bear today with an instructor, but we have low cloud, rain, and risk of thunderstorms. So the mountains are out, but local stuff is OK. So I'm hoping to persuade another instructor to fly into LAX with me. I'll keep you posted.

[i2gofly]

Whirlybird,

Just a quick note...

Ever since that "idiot" in Florida commited suicide by smashing his Cessna on a high rise building, the San Diego Bay "tour" into the bay has been banned. The bay goes in to downtown where all of our high rises are so they do not allow GA to fly into the bay now.

Hopefully one of these days they will lift this ban because it is an awesome flight!

Good luck with your flight to San Diego! I was born and raised here so "mi casa es su casa"! :D

Ruben

[Flying Lawyer]

Now that's the word I was looking for when trying to describe the stunning views of your beautiful bay area: Awesome!
I assume you can get close enough to see the bay area and the downtown skyline? Is overhead Coronado permitted?

If you've got any ideas which will help Whirlybird's planning, please post them. Even if she takes an instructor from Long Beach, he may not know the San Diego area well enough to make the best of the new restrictions.

[Whirlybird]

i2, thanks for the info on San Diego. One of the instructors here said you couldn't do it, so I was wondering.

Flying Lawyer, thanks for asking people to help me out!

OK, today's report....

Fri 26th April
Tim, the instructor, said we could try and fly to LAX (Los Angeles International) if I wanted to, but they might not let us in if we didn't have a good reason. I said I wanted to give it a try. So we left, headed out to the coast, and I made this hopefully professional sounding radio call to LAX. They cleared us to their midfield helipad between the two runways! But they did it by a route Tim had never taken, out to the coast, down to 150 feet, then in to the helipad. That was OK, except you can't see the airport from 150 feet, so we had to climb a bit to see when we were between the runways. Then over the central section with airliners on both sides, and round the tower to land into wind on this rooftop helipad, wow!!!! We made it, but the tower asked us to phone them. Oh ****, what had we done, or not done? :eek: We found a phone and I called them. Apparently, we'd been a little bit too close to a taxiway. I said we hadn't, but he had us on radar, so I gave up arguing, apologised and thanked him and said we'd do better next time. Actually, considering it's one of the busiest airports in the world, he was pretty nice about it. Anyway, I've landed a heli at LAX, ! :) :) :)

Came back via the shoreline transition at 150 ft; this is becoming normal. Then the coastline right to the Queen Mary at around 200 feet, having fun zooming in and out of little bays and avoiding the birds and kites. I could do this for ever. Maybe I'll go the whole way to San Diego at 200 ft.

Keeping my fingers crossed for Big Bear tomorrow.

[i2gofly]

Yes, you can get close enough to see the bay but you just can't fly into the bay...

If you are coming from the north along the coast, which Whirlybird will, once you get to La Jolla, just south of Torry Pines Golf course, you'll want to contact Lindbergh Field (SAN) and request to fly down to Point Loma. They will normally tell you to report at Crystal Pier and fly at or below 400ft or 500ft and report again when over the Ocean Beach Pier. You'll then be clear of Class Bravo and you'll need to contact North Island (Naval Air base). Before you would have requested to fly around Point Loma point and fly into the bay, over the Coronado Bridge, to the Blue Crane etc. but, now you'll can only request to fly around the point (Point Loma) and directly to the Coronado Hotel. Then you'll have the choice to either fly along the coast south to Silver Strand Beach or fly to the south bay.

Although you can't fly into the bay like before, you'll definitely still enjoy the flight!

Good luck and please tells us all about when you get a chance! :D

[Whirlybird]

Sat 27th April
Big Bear was out, cloud base too low. I was asking Tim some questions about going to San Diego, and it turned out he'd never flown there. I invited him to come along for the ride and to navigate, change frequencies etc, if I didn't have to pay dual rates. So we went to San Diego today. Fantastic flight, and I agree, San Diego Bay is awesome. 200-300 ft all along the shoreline, to 2000 ft for the nuclear power whatever (gives me vertigo now), no problems with Camp Pendleton, talked to Lindburgh (San Diego Int'l) and got clearance to Loma Point. Then asked the mil guys if we could go round the bay - don't ask don't get, I always think. They said no, but said we could go to the Blue Crane and directly back! The Blue Crane is directly across the bay, so we got to cross the bay, with Tim taking photos for me (his main function on this trip). Ruben, your home town is beautiful. If I had more time I would have stopped off to see it for longer. As it was, we'd planned to re-fuel at Oceanside, but realised we had enough to get back, so retraced our steps, 200 ft most of the way - this is becoming normal and I like it. My longest flight without stopping in an R22 - 2.9 hours. I've now done 49 hours total since I've been in the US. I'm taking tomorrow off and going to the beach. Then Monday, hopefully Big Bear, or some mountain flying. Tuesday I'm doing an hour's f/w flying, for a change. Wednesday I fly back to the UK. :( But it's been a fantastic trip, and it's not quite over yet.

[Flying Lawyer]

So pleased you went, and very relieved you enjoyed it.
Recommendations are sometimes risky, but that particular flight is a very safe bet - nobody's been disappointed yet! :)

[i2gofly]

AWESOME! You did make it down here! :cool: That is really cool you made the flight!

I'm glad you liked it...yes, you should definitely stay a little longer next time and visit the various sites here. You will not be disappointed. :D

Ruben

[B Sousa]

WOW, Its April Two Eight and I didnt get back to you.....Sorry...... Been real busy with 135 ride and tours......
Weather is still good here in Vegas and wind is real fun in the (Big Ditch) Grand Canyon, only to get better when the summer hits.
Have fun for the remainder of your time, maybe next time for the Law Enforcement tour.
Should you decide on flying in South Africa, let me know, that is easy to arrange......

Bert
Silverado One Six
www.heliusa.com

[Whirlybird]

Bert, no problem; I haven't had time for all I've wanted to do anyway. I HAVE to come back - do the Robinson safety course, see more of San Diego area, maybe actually make it to Vegas.

Sun 28th April
Much needed day off. I got up late and drove down to Laguna Beach. I'm now used to driving here, so had fun following the Pacific Coast Highway, looking from the ground at what I'd seen from the air the day before. Shopping, eating lunch in a restaurant overlooking the ocean, sunbathing on the beach - doing what "normal" women do when they go on holiday to Southern California. Feel much better ( I was tired!) and have enough of a tan to prove to people in the UK that I've been away.

Lovely wx, so hopefully to Big Bear today.

[Whirlybird]

Mon 29th April
Wow, what a flight! I'm just back, after 3.6 hours of mountain flying with Tim, and it was awesome, wonderful, amazing, and more...words fail me. (Tim is laughing at my getting on the PC the moment I'm back, and he says hi :D )

Anyway, it was a beautiful day, as we left Long Beach to the East, and started the long climb up the mountains. Up to nearly 9000 ft, then fantastic views of the lake and the mountains, with Big Bear Airport beyond, sitting in a bowl at 6700+ft. We had worked out that we should be able to do an IGE hover, but not OGE. I didn't really understand what that meant in practice. We managed to bring it to a very low hover, then as we were trying to hover taxi very very low to somewhere to park, the horn came on, and as we turned and lost forward airspeed the rotor RPM just started falling away. When we sort of hopped it to a halt it was about 70%, or below. With the heat and the altitude there was no way of getting any lift - raise the collective you stall, lower it you go into the ground. Now I understand the problems of high altitude flying when it's hot; it was all theoretical before. Anyway, Tim thought taking off would be a problem, but there was a reasonable wind so it was easier than he expected, though we still had to be careful. So we went flying through deserted canyons, and down to Hemet-Ryan for fuel and lunch. Then up an 8000 ft mountain, to auto-rotate down, great fun, and very interesting as you have to be so careful to keep your rotor RPM steady. I learned a lot about autos doing that. The wind was interesting too - 7 kt gusting 18 at Big Bear. Then back to Long Beach.

I've learned an amazing amount today - just sitting here having a discussion about mountain flying, power requirements etc with everyone here. In fact, I've learned an incredible amount in the last three weeks, and had a wonderful time. I've flown 52.6 hours, and some time I'll let everyone know what it's cost me etc. Whatever it's cost, it was worth it.

Tomorrow I'm doing an hour's f/w flying, then going home on Wednesday. I'll post again when I've time.

[widgeon]

Great series of posts , is it too late to start at 50 ?.

Neil

[Whirlybird]

widgeon,

Nope. You may have noticed I keep exceedingly quiet about my age. ;)

[RotorHorn]

Always wondered about that high altitude stuff. Makes sense now!!

Well done WB! This all sounds like the basis of a cracking book to me.....get writing....!!

(Don't forget your PPRuNe chums in the dedications ;) )

p.s. its chucking it down in the North West....

[simonknightuk]

Hi Whirley,

I'm going to come on over to do the B206 stuff. Can you keep the info and i'll get it off you when you return. Is the one that advertises in Pilot (Rotoraviation)?

What was the transition course cost on top of the $125p/h

All the best and enjoy.
Simonknightuk

[Whirlybird]

Rotorhorn,

Concerning high altitude stuff, I felt exactly the same way. It doesn't mean much when you learn to fly in the UK - power requirements are all a bit theoretical. Here it's all too real, and when I saw that rotor RPM just dropping and dropping, and the poor little heli just not able to fly, with the collective really high up, it really brought it home to me. Good stuff.

Simon,

Rotor Aviation do indeed advertise in Pilot. But there's often a problem with e-mailing Kevin; phoning him on his mobile was the best way for me. They don't do the B206 stuff, but will arrange it for you. It's $120 an hour, and the transition is $1320 for ten hours ground school, two hours flying, and the B206 book. But you don't do any start-ups for real, only simulated. It seemed really good, and good value, but it may be better to do the B206 conversion back home. I wouldn't feel confident about the start-up on my own. But Phillippe said I'd be fine, and my problem was lack of confidence, which is possible. When I've seen what I have to do to get it on my UK licence, I'll let you know.

Tuesday 30th April
Last day. :( Packed my stuff, and said goodbye to Irene, the lady I've been staying with, who's become almost a substitute mum! Went to Long Beach Flying School, and did 0.9 hrs in a C152 - landings not great, otherwise my 8 month layoff doesn't mean I've forgotten how to fly. Instructor commented how light I was on the controls - of course I am; I'm an R22 pilot. :eek: Anyway, it was fun, and the 3 takeoffs and landings means I'm legal to take passengers in the UK.

Now back at Rotor Aviation, staying near LAX tonight, then home.

And I wanna do it all again; it's been absolutely fantastic!!!!

[Whirlybird]

I arrived home this morning. It's freezing cold, and I wish I'd stayed there. :(

Right, someone wanted to know about costs etc...

I did a total of 52.6 hours flying:
25 hours @ $120, hour building (traffic watch) in B206 - $3000
2 hours plus 10 hrs groundschool for B206 transition - $1320
4.1 hours dual R44 @ $350 - $1435
10.4 hours dual R22 @ $185 - $1924
11.1 hours solo R22 @ $150 - $1665
TOTAL - $9344 = £6770 approx
This works out at £128.70/hour overall.

Fare to LA - £266
Accommodation - £285 approx
Car Hire - £345 approx
Petrol and food - negligible, and I have to eat and buy petrol at home.
Total - £900 approx.

So you could say this makes it £145.80/hr, or you could say I spent £900 on a holiday, depends how you look at it.

You could do it cheaper than I did, but I learned to fly two new types, and got a lot of instruction in things like mountain flying, which of course added to the cost.

From my point of view, I just had a really wonderful time, and now only need another 40 hours to get to 300!

Hope that's all useful. I'm off to bed!

[Heliport]

Whirlybird

Thank you so much posting your 'California Diary'. I'm sure I wasn't the only one waiting for the next episode.
Hope the suggestions and solutions posted for you were helpful.
Good on you for doing it. You were clearly enjoying yourself.
And congrats on your two new types! :)

Heliport

[knobbygb]

Well done Whirly - thanks for helping keep me awake on night shifts the last couple of weeks. I'm sure after some of the long days you had, you probably didn't want to get straight on a PC and start talking to us lot.

It's great to hear about people enjoying flying - it kind of keeps me going through all the weather cancellations knowing that one day I will also be making similar trips (hopefully after about 20 more hours of training).

Never felt the urge to step into a heli, to be honest (perhaps I'm scared of getting hooked - I REALLY can't afford that!), but I've been to many of the places mentioned by car, especially the San Diego area. It was seeing the scale of GA out there that made me start taking lessons and it's posts like this that keep it looking like a reality.

Don't suppose you felt the urge to fly UNDER the San Diego bay bridge did you? Is that allowed in real life or just in Hollywood?

Can't really describe how jealous I am (in a nice way of course). Thanks again.

[i2gofly]

Knobby,

You do not know how manny times I've been tempted to fly under that bridge! :D I do it all the time on MS simulator though.

Unfortunately is it illegal. :(

[Whirlybird]

knobby,

Actually I really enjoyed telling you all about it; it was like coming back and telling all your friends what you'd been doing.

Thanks to the following:

John J and others for recommending Kevin Eastman.
Nr Fairy for charts and encouragement and doing the US thing before me.
i2, Bert, Flying Lawyer and others for all the advice.
People who posted saying nice things about my thread. :D
Anyone I've forgotten.:D

[crop duster]

Just found this sight, :) , can't believe what I'm reading ya'll have to put up with just to fly. I live in the country, northeast Louisiana, and we don't even have VHF radios in our crop duster planes. We operate off a small city airport and rarely does anyone even fly the pattern. First come, first land. We pay around $1.60 for fuel if we buy 1,000 gallons at a time. Jet-A has been running less than a dollar but we get it in a tanker (7,500 gallons) which brings the price down a little.

We do have AM/FM CD payers in our aircraft and my main gripe is we live so far out that we can't get any good rock and roll to listen to while spraying and fertilizing. We also have company radios that we can talk back and forth on but the only abbreviations we use are 10-4 (same as "roger").

In the winter I fly in the Gulf, out to the oil platforms and usually the only people we talk to is on our company flight following frequency and on the oil company radio. Again, not very formal.

As for annual inspections, we do them ourselves and the FAA only comes by every two or three years, drinks a little coffe or a coke, looks at the books, and heads down the road.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting ya'll down, I'm just amased at what ya'll have to live with on an every day basis.

:confused:

Some times the pasture looks a little greener on the other side of the fence, and sometimes it looks pretty darn good right here at home.
Barryb

[B Sousa]

An important note......In Louisiana, Big Ben is not a clock.......

[Aesir]

I agree with "cropduster", I used to work in the US in Tennesse and Arkansas, even did some crop dusting and its really great to fly and work there and the FAA people are very helpful and friendly at least they were to me.

The aviation world in Europe is becoming way to regulative and difficult and I feel real sorry for the newcomers into the business right now, with JAR ATPL training required for PPL´s if they want to move on. In the States you´re not even allowed to take ATP theory until an FAA inspector has approved you and you have the required hrs (1200 hrs for helo´s I think).

But I actually have a really good job flying Bell 222´s on scheduled route flying in Greenland. So its possible to have interesting and fun jobs in Europe (Greenland is Danish territory) with pretty unrestrictive flying in isolated areas like Grl. I work 30 days on / 30 off schedule so I able to do some flight instructing and charter work where I live in Reykjavik Iceland.

[B Sousa]

I was trying to get a rise above from the Louisiana guy, but it didnt fly.
I was ferrying a Jet Ranger through that country a couple years ago. It was a typical Box of parts with a data plate so problems arose along the route. I had some folks go out of their way in Louisiana and again in Mississippi that kept me flying to my destination. Both were from Crop Duster companies. One guy wouldnt even take a dime for some fuel....
Those are the great people who make me happy to be in this field. Folks with a heart of gold. So no matter how much we joke about that part of the world, its given me some good memories...

[crop duster]

Well, like I said, I'm from the ****ry and I was wondering who Big Ben is. The only one I know sits up at the store bumming cigarettes and won't work even for cash. You did know we have welfare here didn't you.
Barryb

[flygunz]

cropduster, were you in deliverence by any chance working under the name of 'bubba'?
keep chewin

[Whirlybird]

I seem to have told quite a few people about this thread recently (saved me telling them about the trip :D ), so I thought I'd bring it to the top so that they can find it.

I also have to type it again and edit it; Flyer magazine wants to publish it! Don't know when, before anyone asks.

So I might possibly recoup a very small amount of the fortune I spent. :)

[Thomas coupling]

Whirlybird. Considering you've only got 300hrs on helos, you've packed some quality stuff in to date. You'll be a master by the time you've got your 1000:D
Where are you from in Wales?

[Whirlybird]

Thomas,

I live near Llangollen, in North Wales, about 5 miles from the Shropshire border, on a south facing hillside with the best view in the world (and possibly the worst weather!).

I don't have 300 hours yet, only 260 (well, 261.3 to be precise!). I know exactly, since I need that extra 38.7 before I can do an instructors course, and it looks like I'm going to have to pay for them myself. :( Ah well, I'm sure I can find some more interesting flying somewhere in the world, and hopefully still afford to eat. :)

An update, since this thread seems to be alive again. I did the flying and written test last week for the R44, and will have the type rating as soon as the CAA get around to sending it to me. No problems at all, despite horrible weather and a non-hydraulic R44 which I wasn't used to. But I thought I'd have problems with the B206, and I did. I went up for an hour with an instructor just to see how I got on, and found out that basically a "quickie" transition course, lots of flying straight and level, and all of it left seat, really doesn't equal a proper training course. The US stuff was excellent fun, good experience, and good for what I paid; I'm not complaining. Maybe someone else who learns quicker than I do would cope better; I don't know. I'm just passing this on for the benefit of anyone else thinking of doing what I did.

[Nigel Osborn]

Good to hear so many people really enjoy their helicopter flying. I'm happy to say that after 40 years of it, I still find it fun.

Whirly.
As you come from North Wales, RAF Valley used to run a great mountain flying course in the Snowdon area. I know the mountains are not very high there but quite often height is not the major problem. The main problem in my experience has been to work out precisely what the wind is doing and for some reason we could have 50 knots in the hills and only 10 knots at Valley, so it is very easy to get sucked in. Many of the 10000+ feet landings I've done were easier than the ones around Snowdon. If you are still allowed to fly in that area, I highly recommend it.:D

[Whirlybird]

Nigel,

Thanks for that. Heliflight, whose helicopters I hire, do a once yearly mountain flying weekend in Snowdonia. I went last year, and I'll definitely go again this year. As you say, it's knowing about the wind that's one of the most difficult things; I found in the US that I was getting better at it with practice, but slowly. But being at high altitudes, especially trying to land, makes a difference too - not that I really need to know about that if I'll be flying in the UK!

[RotorSEC]

Hey everyone,
Im currently 18 and just finally finished the long and hard struggle of getting the finances together to start flight school. Well I finally got it done and I will be starting my training this Saturday. Today was quite a big day for me to hear this news! Just thought I would let the fellow RotorHeads know.

Scott

[Heliport]

Good news! http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/thumbs.gif
Good Luck - and let us know how you get on.

[Barannfin]

Good luck bud, any idea where you are going to train?

[RotorSEC]

Yeah...I will be training with Glacier Helicopter located in Olympia Washington. After checking with all the schools in my area, I found them to be more helpful than the other schools. I also went up for a flight with the instructor ill be with and I was happy with his skills and I got along with him very well. I think I have a good start on all of this because I have been working for a helicopter facility for almost 4 years now. I have gained a lot of experience. Time to apply it towards a flying career!

Scott

[rba194]

Hi - sorry to bring up a PPL issue in this bit which I know is for professionals, but I'm struggling to get a response in the private flying section as most people who read that are fixed wing pilots.

I'm thinking of doing my JAA PPL(H) at Orlando Flight Training in Kissimmee, Florida, and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience / useful info about this school.

I know that learning in the UK would be ideal but the cost of obtaining JAA PPL(H) over there is so much lower.

Any tips / advice from seasoned pro's would be much appreciated.
Thanks

[sierra-papa]

are you sure you don't think of the JAA (helicopter school) in Titusville, Florida? I have feedback on that one, but not on the one in Kissimee.
sp

[Darren999]

iba194- I under took a PPL(H) in Penslyvania flying a Bell 47 $200 per hr on the ICAO certificate. The training is for an amercican licence, which entiltes you to fly helicopters over here, just can't take them out of the country.
I had a great time, the company was called Dutch Country Helicopters, I went over this year obtained my Commercial (american) and going back in Oct for my CFI. Hope this info was of some use. Good luck, just for your info, Bell 47's are great for training, very forgiving and flexible.

Darren

[simfly]

Did fixed wing PPL at Orlando Flight Training just before they started the helicopter side. For doing a PPL they were good. I know one of the helicopter instructors there who was trained at Helicopter Adventures (the school in Titusville previously mentioned). In all, great place for PPL, good accommodation, good airfield, good instructors, most of all great value. Heli Adventures is a great place for JAA ATPL, not sure about PPL though. Which ever, I recomend doing as many ground exams as possible at local flying club as some are the same as fixed wing, then concentrate more on the flying out there.

[murdock]

I did the JAA PPL(H) cours in Heli Adventures last summer. Got it completed in under 2 months. Personally I thought the school is really good. Has great instructors and a lot of other students who all make it worth while. I am currently back at HAI now completing all my FAA ratings. Let me know if you need any info/details about the school. Good luck.

[imlmjk]

Is anybody familiar with any Robinson flight schools in Colorado. Preferable one in the Denver region.

Thanks

[rotorboy]

There is no longer a Robinson flight school in Colorado. Exel used to be in Denver then Boulder. They no longer do any training, just hevi lift with the 214b.

There are 4 flight schools in the denver area. 2 H300c schools and 2 with Enstroms. The one 300 school has a couple of instructors who work/worked up at the HATS center in Eagle.

Rotor of the Rockies, Highlander helicopter Flight Training, Denver Helicopters and the new enstrom guy...

I heard a rumor a guy wanted to start a R44 school in Grand Junction.

Hope this helps...

Personally, learning to fly at that DA is going to be hard. Espically if you weigh more than 180 lbs. You and an instructor who weighs 180 doesnt leave a whole lot left for fuel before you hit Max Gross Weight.

Unlike some of the Schools elsewhere out west that are high, you cant go down in DA quickly, just up...

IMO a R22BII up here would be pushing it, especialy on a hot day in July....

Hope this helps

RB:D

[huey]

Hi Guys,I am currently doing my Commercial Helicopter Licence in Australia. I have 20 hrs.in a R22 & 3 hrs. in Bell 47. My wife has been offered a job in L.A. next year and I'm looking at finishing my training somewhere in the L.A. area.What do I have to do to finish my training in the states to U.S commercial level and or instructor.Who are the good schools to train with. What are the realistic job prospects in the states for low houred pilots. Where can I go for a job when I finish my training.Travel is no problem.What are the Visa requirements to train then work for a 37 year old.
Do any of you American PPRUNERS know how much rent is in the L.A. area. Also what are the good suburbs to live in,trouble free so to speak not necessarily inner city.

[M/V]

Huey,
Your best bet is to get on the www and email flight schools in the LA area close to where you plan to rent. I know a number of guys who obtained a J1 visa through their flight school, this allows you to work/train as a CFI for up to 2 years although post sept 11 this may have changed somewhat. Rents in LA I don't know much about but are probably the same as any big city these days.
It used to be that one could convert a FAA licence to a CASA licence if that person had used the FAA licence to earn a living for 200 hrs. After returning to OZ, all that is required is a Air Law exam and a Flight Test. Check with CASA as this may have changed. Best of luck. M/V

[flyheli]

Hi!

Has anyone of you experience with this place in Florida or heared how they are?? Looking for a place to get more training and possibly want to start working there as a CFI.

any comments welcome!

Thanx,
flyheli:confused:

[nikki]

Hey,
I've never done any training there but haven't heard any good things about them either. I did hear that it wasn't run very well.
To be fair, you should make your own judgement. I do like volar helicopters. They're just across the freeway from them.

nik.

[pilotwolf]

Can anyone recommend a good, sensible, safe school in the NY area who could do me a Bi Annual and check out for renting.

Can anyone give me an idea how restrictive SFH is around the city currently? Is it relaxed enough for us to do a sightseeing trip?

And yes - it will be cheaper than doing an organised tour and I get my biannual done too!

PM if you prefer or think you might be advertising! :=

[Martin1234]

There was a post on JH a while ago where someone posted the following list of NY schools;

Helicopter Flight Services
68 Stacy Haines Road
Medford NJ
08055-4106
USA
Contact: Doug Herlihy
Phone: 609 265 0822
Fax: 609 923 3228

KD Helicopters
38 Hope Road
P.O. Box 247
Blairstown NJ
07825-0247
USA
Contact: Kim Darst
Phone: 908 362 6277
Fax: 908 362 6277
Email: [email protected]
Website: http://www.kdhelicopters.com

New England Helicopters
84 Citation Drive
Washingtonville NY
10992
USA
Contact: Bob Warfield
Phone: 845 462 6115
Fax: 845 497 7003
Email: [email protected]

Centennial Helicopters, Inc.
49 Miry Brook Road
Danbury CT
06810
USA
Contact: Michael DiMarchi
Phone: 203 798 9632
Fax: 203 798 9673
Email: [email protected]
Website: http://www.centennialhelicopters.com

HELICOPTER FLIGHT TRAINING INC.
2111 SMITHTOWN AVE
RONKONKOMA, NY 11779-7364

[pilotwolf]

Great! Thanks - I ll get the map out and have a look to see if any are close to where we are staying.

:ok:

[dave_smith99]

Hi, i am considering going to train as a helicopter instructor/commercial pilot in the U.S. next year (I am currently doing my PPL in the UK), I have been told (by the flying school i am planning to go to) that employment prospects for heli instructors in the US are good. Before I pay about 40,000 dollars I want to find out if this is true and also what the prospects for employment as an instructor or a commercial pilot are like in the US/Canada and Central&South America. (or anywhere else in the world)

I plan to go to the US on a 2 year 'J1' visa (as i am a UK citizen). I am concerned that after my 6 months training I wont be able to get an instructor job, and also, I am concerned that after gaining about 1000 hours instructing and my J1 visa has expired I wont be able to get further employment.

If anyone out there can give me some advice, I'd really appreciate it

Thanks


Dave Smith

[Decks]

Dave,

I trained in the U.S. at HAI about 10 years ago and now work in the industry back in Ireland. People often ask me about this stuff.
I always say that if youre going to do it then go there and get your CAA license while youre at it.The decision to make is not where to go but if to go. Talk to as many guys in the north sea, flying charter, police etc. as you can, and decide if what they are up to is where you want to end up.
HAI is a great school and will match your effort. Over the years guys go there and achieve different results. A lot of it is down to how you apply yourself.... keep your mouth closed and your head down. There are guys who have applied themselves and made the right choices and didnt get where they really wanted...you do need luck chasing jobs etc.... but most guys who stick with it over five to ten years eventually get there. There are instructor jobs and you have to chase them. Having done your ppl in the uk first is smart as it will give you more time to instruct and build those hours. The industry is always cyclical and timing is important... if you hit a lull then you may have to be patient....
Best of Luck.

[BlenderPilot]

I'm sure if you have at least "average" ability you will have no problem getting job flight instructing, there are tons of schools looking for people. I don't know if I would call it a job though, you get paid very poorly and when there are no students you don't get paid at all, But it seems to be the only choice for many.

About getting a job afterwards, that's whole different story, it varies widely from country to country, but at least in the US I know that with 1 year left on a J1 your chances are slim for anything more than flight instructing.

Good Luck

[KENNYR]

The job situation in Canada is pretty pathetic right now. The fixed wing market is attrocious with many new pilots working as dispatchers and dock-hands at fly in lodges etc. with the hope that in one or two years they will get a right hand seat and then maybe a few years later the left hand seat.

There is a possibility that the rotary market will be short of experience very soon.

So, basically, give Canada a miss right now.

Just heard the worst possible rumour that Air Canada are going to lay off approximately 800 pilots. When they flood the market then there will be no room for any pilots coming into Canada. Immigration may even disallow applications for residency if you are a pilot and looking for work in Canada.

[Steve76]

When have Immigration Canada EVER been encouraging of pilots coming to Canada?
Never in my experience.
From a helo perspective if you have a 1000hrs of anything rotary then Canada is a perfect place to be. They are screaming for experienced drivers at the moment due to the hike in insurance rates. :mad:

[BlenderPilot]

That's right! I have a Mexican friend who got called to work down there doing the heliski thing in 212's (whistler) because they a slight shortage of experienced people. Seem CA could be a good place.

[Watchoutbelow]

Unfortunately I may not sound so optimistic on this one, I have known a lot of people taking out large loans to learn to fly helicopters, and then not been able to finish there training due to under budgeting, or else getting a CFI job that will leave you struggling to live off, not to mention pay back a loan.

Flight schools are always going to tell you what you want to hear, obviously because it’s in there interest. Of course there are some success stories but for every success story..........
If this was the case how come there are so many 1000+ hour CFI's out there? And they are the lucky ones who get jobs were they get to do a bit of flying, some schools you may just end up being an extremely poorly paid receptionist and you may get an hours flying in here and there.

Then when your visa is up all you have is a huge debt and nothing on the horizon to look foward to then sitting in groundschool for 800+ hours for the JAA exams, if your still interested in the business and you can afford to.

It’s a harsh business to get involved in and the sad truth is, if you can not afford it, you cannot do it.

[gulliBell]

I would do some serious homework FIRST before setting out on this adventure, and then get a 2nd and a 3rd opinion! I suspect if you are already a helicopter pilot (PPL) then you might not get the work permit from the INS, you might have to be enrolled in the whole CPL course first (and not PPL to CPL) to qualify for working privileges in the US. Anyway, that is what I was told by a few reputable flight schools. So I'd be aware before setting out, things will never go smoothly and according to plan when you eventually get to the US, you can be assured of that!!

[IHL]

Steve76: It is probably a lot easier for someone from Austrailia/New Zealand to come to Canada than it would be for a Canadian to go down under.

[Steve76]

IHL:
It is exactly the same process for a Canadian to head down under. Most under 30 get in with the 1yr working visa so they can enjoy a working holiday in NZ and OZ.
As for pilots - same hassles to immigrate but there really isn't the capacity in the industry there to accomodate foreign pilots to the equivalent numbers of antipodeans that come to Canada.
But! there are plenty of Japanese and German pilots in NZ and I know that Marty C from Airbourne spent quite a bit of time flying in the outback. Canadians are predominant in PNG as well.
Additionally there are a few canuks flying fixed wing for the likes of Quantas and other regionals.

[IHL]

Steve 76:

I do know that the Helicopter Industry in Canada is quite stable, I've been in it for more than 20 years and if a pilot has a 1000 hours he shouldn't have a problem earning a modest living. I have never been without fulltime employment in 18 years.

I know quite a few Canucks who/have work/worked for various companies in PNG. I don't think PNG has much of an infastructure to produce pilots though.

I was under the impression that OZ and NZ were/are very protective of their industry, and it is quite difficult to get in.

You mentioned the one year visa in OZ. Do you have landed imigrant status in Canada?

I think Canada is quite liberal ( pardon the pun); I have flown with guys from every continent except Antartica. None seemed to have any real problem getting in; one pilot even defected from the former Soviet Union.

Canada is a great company in spite of an incompetent self serving government.

[ATPMBA]

I just got back from the airport and heard monthly helicopter hours are down, training and solo as compared to a year ago. Hopefully the economy will pick up.

Do get the info on the J1 Visa as you already have the PPL.

From what I’ve seen over the last several years is four Norwegians came through HAI and taught at the flight school, one went off for logging and fire-fighting. When they went home most of them had 1,000 hours plus. Two definitely have jobs, one might check out in the S-92, another was close to getting a job, and last I am unsure, as I do not have his email address.

Your budget might be a little low, you always need more money than you plan for. You might also need a car and car insurance and a drivers license to get around and track down jobs, pubs, etc.

[otter712]

good training at HAI in florida.

Insurance requirements from Pathfinder are 300 hrs to instruct from wich I believe 200 in R-22.
Other insurances still 200 with S-far sign off.
If you meet these requirements, you will find a job quickly.
Look on Justpilots.com for positions.
I got my job on the day I got my 200 hrs and sign off.
Anything less than that and you will have to compeat with hundreds of new cfi's for that one schweizer 300 cb job which has no minimum requirements.
Look into the possibillity of going on a M-1 student visa first, and get your instrument rating, work towards your commercial, and get your J-1 just before your checkride for commercial.
That is where you need the J-1.
The worst that can happen, they subtract your M-1 time from your new J-1.(they didnt with me)
Get your instument instructor as well, will highly increase your chances to get your job.
Most important, as I found out, train at a school with a known and good reputation, and you made it trough the first selection.

HAI, PBH, Hillsboro, Quantum, Sierra, Vortex,

I am sure there are more good schools but knowing what I know now, I would go for one out of the first 3.

What happens afther your instruction time, get another M-1 and do your conversion to european at HAI, or open a buissines in the US and work through that.
You dont need a J-1 or any workvisa to be in the US, you just cant be on any payroll.
You can still bill through your own buissines and leave the country every 3 months.
I know people who do it either through US or Dutch companies, owned by themselves, dependt on the agreement between the 2 countries.
I still have my previous Dutch companie, and this is my backdoor when the time is there

I never so far regretted my decission to go and live my dream for one moment, Just make sure you have all the money available, to train and to built time to meet the requirements, and live and buy a car, and a couple of 1000 more for traveling to interviews, jobhunting, and surviving the first 2 months afther you have a job.

Good luck

[anichels]

Was wondering if anyone can tell me about their experience with Vortex in Mississippi. How are they for a school, job placement, etc. Thanks

[moosp]

I flew about 20 hours with them working towards a PPL(H) in 2000. Friendly, professional and their engineering looked good too.

They operate off their own heliport so no delays, and Gulfport is five minutes away for ATC experience. Good fun mixing it with the military too. Not many civil schools where you have to extend downwind for a B1 and F16 escorts.

Economical accommodation close by with the casinos of Gulfport to throw your money at. Oh and you'll put ten pounds on by eating po'boys for lunch and dinner. They sure eat well in the deep south...

[anichels]

Thanks moosp.

What about the fact that they aren't tower controlled? Would I be at a disadvantage with much radio experience when I go to get my first CFI job?

[moosp]

No problem as all circuit training was done at Gulfport. The place is busy ehough to keep you interested but not so much as to get in the way of training.

[Elvis21]

I am off to Orlando in July/August and I my girlfriend is after a trial helicopter lesson. Do any of you guys know any good places out there were she can get a trial lesson. We are staying near the theme parks.

Knew I could count on you guys;)

[Old Man Rotor]

I think you will be very very sorry for throwing out that bait.

Being a grey haired gentleman I will of course refrain.

[newswatcher]

Try Warbirds of Kissimmee, and combine this with a MASH experience!

http://www.warbirdadventures.com/

or Tropical Helicopters at Leesburg:

http://www.tropicalhelicopter.com/introflight.htm

:ok: :ok:

[Winnie]

Try Helicopter Adventures, Inc. in Titusville, FL. About 45 minutes drive out towards Kenedy Space center!

Check them out at Helicopter Adventures, Inc (http://www.heli.com) :ok:

[Robbo Jock]

If you're in the area you should visit the "Crazy Horse" hangar (it's just gone, the correct name, as I typed, and I can't get it back. Ohhhhh senility...) at Kissimmee airport.

They have a two seat Mustang you can take up for an hour, (for an arm and a leg,) or for half an hour (just for the arm. ) Alternatively, you can do what I did and ask nicely and they'll show you around the hangar - four Mustangs and a Kittyhawk/Warhawk were in when I was there. Pristine condition. Beautiful. And the chief engineer showing me around and chatting to me while I gawked. Very friendly people and superb aircraft. Worth wandering over while your missus is airborne.

Been there, seen that and bought the T-shirt. (And a very nice one it is, too) :-)

[omerta]

Two palces to check out: if in Orlando at Executive Airport, try Air Orlando and ask for Markus, if you're going to make it out to Helicopter Adventures in Titusville, ask for Chris or Martin. Both places fly Schweizers.:ok:

[Winnie]

Omerta:
I don't think Martin is at HAI anymore, don't look like it on the site anyway!

Marcus, would that be the short swede by the way?
Winnie:)

[omerta]

Winnie,

Well, I guess you're right, no more Martin. I haven't checked out the HAI sight recently, but glad you brought it to my attention. There is a new section with recent graduates, and what they are up to, pretty good stuff. Regarding Markus in Orlando, he is actually German, I think. Cheers.:E

[rba194]

I've just done 30 hours at Orlando Flight Training at Kissimmee Municpal (gateway) Airport. They've got 3 R22s.

www.flyoft.com

[k9medic]

Perhaps I'm biased, but give Tropical Helicopter a call. They are about 35 mile north of the Orlando attractions.

[Delta Julliet Golf]

Hi,

just a short question. Does anyone know if there are JAA approved helicopter schools in the US? I heard some rumours about it here in Holland, so I was wondering...

Thanks,
DJG

[Yarba]

DJG,
HAI in Florida is an approved JAA school. The JAA part run by George Bedford, who used to run the Bristow Helicopters Training School in UK when they still did their own training.
Yarba

[SE7EN]

I have a current fixed wing ATPL (ICAO) but am intending to do a PPL (H) for fun. Does anyone know anything about UKFT at Long Beach?
I have searched for info and found nothing so far.
Any help or suggestions particularly with reference to training in California would be very much appreciated.

[vaqueroaero]

Take a look at www.civichelicopters.com.
Based just north of San Diego - you won't go wrong.

[SE7EN]

Many thanks for the link. Should have mentioned that I'm looking for a CAA licence.
Looks like UKFT is the one unless anyone has had a negative experience with them.

[The Nr Fairy]

I'm trying to do the maths to see whether it's worth doing part of my 206 type rating in the US.

I'll be in Washington DC at the end of August - does anyone know of reputable operators nearby (I know about the restrictions close to DC but clarification would be good).

Plan is to do the groundschool element here, as much of the JAR type rating syllabus as is common in an N machine then finish off here, but ONLY if it makes money sense.

Any thoughts, anyone ?

[A109drvr]

I am in the DC area.

Helicopter High based out of Martin State airport has a 206 ($850.00/hr) but I am not sure he uses that for training.

The closest one that I know of that does do training is based out of Richmond, Va. They move it to Norfolk frequently which is quite a haul from D.C. (Richmond Helicopters and I think $750.00/hour)

There are a few Robbie schools around, Manassas VA, Fredrick, MD and Baltimore, MD

[B Sousa]

Dave
I can't help you on D.C., but if you must get a Turbine Conversion, shop around a bit. There are Schools not that far away. One if I remember sells block time in the 500, so it wont really matter unless you specifically need 206.
Post this on www.justhelicopters.com also.
Personally I suggest shopping around and actually when your finished with your project in D.C. Find a place on the East Coast that you can get a deal, maybe even Heli Adventures in FL, go there do your thing and then fly back and out of D.C. If your ticket cannot be changed.
Take a look at www.landings.com maybe they have some schools listed.
Good Luck and your Lucky you missed Vegas this summer, record Heat. As for me Im down in Africa enjoying the winter........

[RDRickster]

I live in DC area, as well.

Advanced Helicopter Concepts (http://www.advancedhelicopter.com/) has a 206, but I just got off the phone and it's not insured for training. They are based out of Frederick, MD and are probably the closest to D.C. (about 45 minutes north off I-270).

Jet Services (http://www.jetservicesfbo.com/flight_training.htm) out of Manassas has one and only one R22. They have purchased an R44, but it's not operational for training, yet.

Helicopter High (http://www.helicopterhigh.com/) has R22, R44, and 206. I just gave them a quick call, and their 206 isn't insured for flight training either.

There used to be an operation at DCA (Reagan-National), but they moved after the flight restrictions. I think they went out of business shortly after that because most of their clients were executives, congressman, and the like.

Good luck!

[The Nr Fairy]

Hmm. $750 / $850 an hour is more than the 206 here in the UK - a first, perchance ?

Bert - it needs to be 206 to do the type rating bits when we get back. No namby-pamby insurance company is going to get its mitts on the qualifications to fly a 206 here, that's the CAA's job.

The alternative is to spend some of the money I save by not flying in the US buying beers - any RotorHeads bods fancy that ?

[Hedski]

Just wondering on a similar note, are there any self fly hire 206's about in the US for PPL's or CPL's?
Anybody know how to convert FAA type rating to JAR?

[vinil]

I had a great time there and the owner takes personal responsibility to get you completed.

Have a good time and Good Luck.

[Hughes500]

dave

Give me a ring I know of a 206 that you can get for a lot cheaper

[SE7EN]

Thanks VINIL,
Now I'll be able to sleep tonight!:ok:

[pilotwolf]

Has anyone any had an experience with these guys? Preferably in FL but CA too...

I m looking to doing some 'add ons' there and probably JAA CPL checkride later this year.

Not worried about $ as that info is easily available from their info pack, (incidently their CPL training, per hr, is less than 1/2 the UK price I have been quoted),... looking more for 'customer service' and personnel issues.

PM or email if you prefer.

Thanks.

PW.

[moosp]

I don't know about their FL operation but I flew an hour with them in Concord CA and found them professional.

The Government Flying Service out here in HKG used them for basic PPL(H) training (may still do, I'm not sure...) and seemed to be well satisfied. I guess they would have done some research on the better schools around for their purpose and GFS are a serious outfit.

FWIW

[RW-1]

I had a few friends up there that went through it, nice operation, friendly personnel.

[Expat in the sun]

I did my FAA instrument rating there, very professional, good training, well maintained aircraft.:cool:

[GEORDIEPILOT]

I did my JAA CPL(H) at Titusville FL with them in 2001 and found the training to be at a very high standard. All instructors at the time were either Norweigan or English and friendly. Email me if you require any further info.

[In the swamp]

At Titusville now. I have also found HAI to be proffeshional. I have flown / trained in 2 other countries. There is the usual US situation of having low time instructors, but to be fair they are good. The CFI program is very thougher and the Check pilots and Cheif ensure high standards and uniformity in training. As you can already fly, there is no problem anyway. I have flown in Cali' also which is great but more expensive than FL. The only down side is the lack of elevated terrain, which isn't great. This place may not have every thing, but it has a lot. A good choice.

The FAA use HA for recurency and of course the UK's Bristow primary training for the North Sea is done there also!

PM if you have q's

[pilotwolf]

Thanks for the replies!

Guess I ll be in Florida later this year then!! :D

[pitch change link]

Anyone know of any flight schools in the Chicago area that they would recommend? I'm prepared to drive to nearby Indiana and Wisconsin if needs be.

I actually have a private rotorcraft license and am looking to build time, so entities not offering instruction but reasonable rental would be beneficial too.

Thanks,
PCL

[Bronx]

General information only - no 'inside' info.

Sun Aero in Lansing, IL www.sunaerohelicopters.com

WW Helicopters in East Troy, WI. www.wwhelicopters.com

[Steve76]

Drive a lot further east to Canada and do it with Modak Aviation in London Ontario. Save you a few bucks that will......

[RDRickster]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the standards are a little more tight in Canada.
This should make your FAA check ride much easier.

[nulian]

I can recommend Sun Aero - got my PPL through them. They operate three R22s, one R44 and a 206.

The 22 goes for $205/hr wet, but block rates are available.

Anyone know of other schools around? I'm also looking to build cheap time =)

[RDRickster]

Not in the Chicago area, but these guys rent R22 for $160/hour. BoatPix has a program for $100/hour - but there seems to be some negative opinions about there business practice (I won't go into it here). Anyway, Manassas, Virginia...

http://www.jetservicesfbo.com/flight_training.htm

[nulian]

Nice and cheap, but sort of a long trip from Chicago =)

[dave_smith99]

has anyone any experience of flying helis with these guys? i'm thinking of doing some hour-building

dave

[Skaz]

I am looking for a GOOD chopper school, in the USA. One that is held in high regard by the industry and whose graduates are sought after. A school that I can be assured of will give me excellent training and skills that will get me hired in the real world.Not some fly-by-night operator thats only after my money and full of empty promises.

I have 2600TT fixed wing, and have been doing aeromedical flying for a long time. I believe this is my vocation and would like to continue doing it, but BOTH fixed wing and rotary wing ops.

Apart from the aeromedical stuff, law enforcement, firefighting etc are ops I think would be interesting to be part of.

I know there are a few schools that conduct both fixed and rotary wing training and other ops like firefighting or charters etc., one example is Hillsboro Aviation.

Could you folks out there flying the line , doing the ops, suggest a school or company that fits the bill?

Any and all info much appreciated.:ok:

[B Sousa]

Getting a Helicopter add-on is going to be easy and cheaper than if you were starting cold. I dont know of any school that has sought after graduates. I do know most Pilots have to beat on doors to get jobs.
One school that has been mentioned here many times is Heli-Adventures. www.heli.com start there and see what happens. Most schools that I know of are out to sell you as much time as they can. They all seem to be driven by the dollar bill. Good Luck.

[Skaz]

ok , thanks Bert, been looking at them already.

Anybody know of the outfit called Celebrity Helicopters?

[Lowlevldevl]

I got my FAA rotorcraft CPL through Avia Aviation at Corvallis, Oregon a few months ago. It was a conversion from my Aussie CPL. I already have work in Australia so didn't have to look for any in the US, so can't comment there. I believe they are tied up somehow with Hillsboro Heli. I was very happy with my instruction there and having many years experience in the helicopter world already, was impressed with the way they do business.

[PPRUNE FAN#1]

LESSON #1: Terminology

A) Do *not* call them "choppers." Ever. Usage of said word will immediately peg you as a "wannabe" or outsider.

B) Do not call them "helos" either.

C) Real helicopter pilots refer to their aircraft as a "ship." Sometimes, American pilots will affectionately call their ship a "bird."

[Thomas coupling]

You still 'pop-up' and talk bo**ocks at times don't you PPrude1:uhoh:
Call them what you want Skaz.......
Chopper
Cab
Bus
ship
crate
helo

It's what's in your log book that counts. (if you've got one)

I interviewed a candidate recently and asked to see his log book. When it came to checking his night quals, the columns were blank!
I asked why and he said he couldn't be bothered to fill it in, but that he had 'loads of night hours and had lost track'...which is great if you are working, but what about the next position you are after?:suspect:

[Lu Zuckerman]

B) Do not call them "helos" either.

This is standard terminology in the U S Navy.

:E

[Skaz]

Lowlevldevl thanks for the gen, will look them up. What were they like? Good points ? A/c operated?

PF1 sorry :eek: wont ever call them choppers :ok:

Bert been checking on Heli-Adventures, they look like a good operation . You have first hand experience of them?

What kinda ratings etc would employers look for? stuff like a mountain flying rating or endorsement?

where could you get training for ops like EMS, which is what I'd ultimately like to do on Rotary Wing Aircraft ;)

TC thanks for the info, I see you are CP of 'Copper Chopper' like on Reality TV ('scuse the c words) and HEMS, am I right in thinking thats Helicopter Emergency Medical Service? How would one get a foot in the door of such an ops? I have been doing Fixed wing medevacs for a few years already.

[Thomas coupling]

Skaz:

You need a private income, aristocratic connections, be photogenic, sauve, debonair and be able to sell bu***hit to the Yanks.:ouch:

Then, when you wake up, you need:

2000+helo hrs
200 night
500 twin [twin type rating]
mil background or a pedigree civ background (:uhoh: )
CRM qual
onshore ops experience
32 fluid ounces of good luck :D

[diethelm]

Try Quantum Helicopters in Chandler Arizona www.quantumhelicopters.com I received a Private, Instrument and then Commercial at their facility. Very professional, strict, regimented. My instructor, who was a student there first, now is an instructor at Fort Rucker. I looked at several schools and talked to several people before choosing them and all were good references.

Three designated examiners to choose from in the area. One owns the school and is on the HAI safety committee, one is the Chief Pilot/Instructor and one is Rich Lee from Boeing.

I am happy with the value I received for the dollars spent. :ok:

[Skaz]

diethelm thanks a lot for the gen , mate, I will look them up right now.

Thomas coupling Looks like the quals you need would be the kind of thing you get during a relatively long stint at a good school that operates both single and twin helicopters (turbine)
offers courses like long line and mountain flying etc, and after that flying for a tour? or 137/5 operator?

read a thread on www.verticalreference.com and looks like this a long term goal, like 10 years or so in the making...

[t'aint natural]

I'm with Prune Fan on this one.
Choppers? I've never heard anyone seriously involved in the helicopter world who calls them that - apart from whichever Aussie bleeder named the VRPs for Bankstown.
Helos? What a horrible abortion of a word. I've heard people trying to spread that one into the UK, but thankfully it falls on stony ground.
It's a helicopter. Ship is acceptable. Old bus will do.

[Twisted Rigging]

I have a large purple 'Chopper'

However, I fly about in a nice red 'Helicopter' :E

[Skaz]

TC what would qualify as a pedigree civilian background ?

so what do you guys call your helicopters in casual conversation?
..." ...today I flew my ship or crate ...?"

[Thomas coupling]

A proven track record, one which could be checked on.

"Today I flew my..................arse off:D "

[Skaz]

TC yesterday I almost did;) on fixed wing....

A proven track record, one which could be checked on.

so keep detailed and accurate records in logbook (as natural) and all certificates, contact numbers etc so prospective employers can verify your creds?
ok, sound logical.

My present employer is looking at maybe buying a helicopter. They were leaning towards a MBB105 (?) but the other party is trying to sell them a EC120.

Ops manager says EC120 not have the power and performance needed for the conditions here. Airfield elevation 5600', temperature summer 20 - 38 Celsius. Can get very hot, lots of mountains in some areas, but highest of these about 9000'.

Would use it for charters and medevacs.

Any input from you guys that know about these things?

[Thomas coupling]

Skaz: what a comparison!
twin Vs single.

Running costs of old technology (1960's) Vs the latest spec(1990's)

Maintenance down time of the old Vs the new.

Customer appeal (a tired looking airframe Vs a very sleek slippery looking modern machine).

Bottom line has got to be its performance capabilities Vs running costs.

Start a new thread to find out first hand from the operators:

Hot and High, EC120 or MBB105?

perhaps?

[Skaz]

hey , what do I know, I'm still a fixed wing jockey!

do you know the crews that fly Hotel 900 perhaps?

[JFDI]

I'm a fresh faced (dream on!) apprentice PPL(H) with about 35 hours on R22s. I have a weekend spare on a business trip to the US in the Philadelphia/New Jersey area and I'd like to do some more dual work to make best use of my spare time.

Any suggestions of who to contact?

Am I misguided in wanting to do this?

Thanks in advance
JFDI:)

[RDRickster]

There is a good school in Princeton, NJ. Check your PM's for the CFI's e-mail address.

[leee]

Hi, there is a school in NJ called pegasus
www.pegasus-flight.com
or you could find more fixed base operators on
www.landings.com

I used to work at pegasus when it was called a different name buts its about 30 min drive from newyork 10/15 min flight time.
machines were always well looked after.

Cheers Lee...

[Flying Lawyer]

Dutch Country Helicopters, West of Philly, has Bell 47s @ $220 pr hr Dual.

[Citationkid]

Horizon Helicopters in northren DE. The owner is the best helicopter pilot I know of and their lowest time pilot has like 7,000 hours. My dad flies for them on the side and they have some nice helicopters.

[RDRickster]

Howdy! I'm an R22 pilot who is trying to learn from a broader base of experience in a few other types (B47, 280FX, B2B, 300CB). Towards that goal, I spent my 2nd hour in the B47 and I'm still having an issue coordinating throttle control and other actions during quick-stop. For example, one time I focused too much on throttle control and didn't apply enough right pedal and spent too much time correcting that (before leveling the ship, etc, etc). Although the Robbie has me very spoiled with the governor, I don't seem to have any problems with other B47 maneuvers (autos, max perf, etc). I'm just beginning to get used to the "play" in the throttle control, but I could really use a few pointers from you B47 veterans out there. Any suggestions?

B47 Flight (ftp://members.aol.com/rdrickster/R2B47.gif)

Thanks in advance!

[JFDI]

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions - I'll see what I can fix up though it looks like my plans may be messed up by Hurricane Isabel!
Regards
JFDI

[rotorque]

RDRickster,

As mentioned above, coming from an ungoverned R22 in the past to a B47 was easier back then. You usually knew to lead with the throttle when you reduced collective in any manouvre outside the norm.

I have two rules for driving a 47 -

1) Always lead with the throttle. For example if you are about to do a quick stop, role the throttle back till you can feel a slight back pressure coming from the correlation box. When you feel the correlation come into play you can be pretty sure that any further reduction in throttle will produce an RPM response. Read on for the rest.....

2) Always control RRPM with the collective. This is by far the easiest (and safest) way to control the RPM in a 47 no matter whether it has heavy weight blades or not. In the mustering game conducting quick stops, it is normal to completely role off the throttle alltogether and control the RRPM soley with the collective. It is also easier to feel the engine re-engage with the rotor system when you wind the throttle back on to fly away.

As you probably know the biggest difference between an R22 and a B47 is the correlation. It is well documented that it you find yourself in a low RRPM situation in a 22 you must wack on the throttle before lowering the collective. This is due to the exceptional correlation of the Robbo, when you lower collective you also reduce ERPM. This inherently teaches you a mind set to control RRPM with the throttle. In 47's, the only effective way to control RRPM is with collective, as the higher inertia in the rotor system makes the throttle response lag so far behind.

The only other suggestion is to Listen to the RPM whilst doing any manouvre. In the end you won't even need to watch the gauge.

Hope this helps

Cheers

[Skycop9]

You may want to all Panarama Flight support at The Westchester County Airport. They have a 300C helicopter. Also Centenial helicopters in Danbury Ct. Which has R-22's. Westchester Airport is located 20 minutes North of NY City and Danbury airport about 90 minutes north of NY City. I think the Wx will be out of the area by Sunday Sept. 21.
Good luck.

Skycop9

[Giovanni Cento Nove]

While you are at it next time try changing the RRPM with a fixed MP. Brings in something different in the way you do things. It will also help on approach's. Being able to maintain a fixed MP and alter the RPM to suit makes for very clean stable approach's. Every time you change the MP means you will have to change the pedal input accordingly. PIO in the yaw channel!

End 2 bob -

[RDRickster]

Good stuff - thanks, Gents!