Thames Radar

[Stampe]

Any Thames Radar controllers like to comment on why permission to transit the Thames zone seems to be routinely denied to light aircraft without transponders and sometimes to those with.When this airspace was created i was of the understanding that it would remain available to all.My radios crystal clear and after 12000 hours of flying I presume my Rt would engender reasonable confidence with a controller that I was not going to embaress them.

[10W]

Don't know too much about that airspace but is carraige of transponder notified as mandatory for it?

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10 West
UK ATC'er
[email protected]
ICQ 18043595

[ATCO Two]

Hi Stampe,

Some reasons for restricting VFR transits of the LCY CTR.

1.Thames Radar Controllers are wary about allowing non transponder equipped aircraft to transit the Zone VFR because of the poor primary radar performance at the lower levels.
2. The presence of the Specified Area pushes single engined aircraft further East than is desirable i.e., into the Lee Valley and therefore nearer to the climbout of Rwy 28 and into conflict with IFR departures
3. The is no easily definable visual holding point to the North of EGLC.
4. EGLC has around 162 IFR movements per day and is the 15th busiest airport in the UK.
5. I'm sure that you know the Class D rules as well as I do, but I don't believe that passing traffic information on VFR flights to IFR flights is a good idea, especially when they are descending on a 5.5 degree G/P or carrying out a complicated SID with stepped climbs.
6. Twin engined aircraft can be accommodated more flexibly by roueting over London Bridge.
7. Controller workload is sometimes very high, especially when some pilots use the frequency as a LARS service, and our priority must be towards IFR traffic into and out of EGLC and EGKB who both pay for the service.
8. Traffic into EGLC is fairly predictable and if you choose your time e.g mid morning or mid afternoon you will be more likely to receive a clearance. Alternatively try Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning when the Zone reverts to Class G.
9. Traffic spotters and commercial helicopter operators are usually given preference over light aircraft transits.

These are just a few considerations we make before allowing VFR transits across the Zone. We will try to be helpful as much as possible, but we must always safeguard the IFR traffic and consider workload implications. Just because the frequency is quiet doesn't mean that we are not busy; telephone co-ordination is a large part of the job, as is verbal co-ordination with EGLL SVFR. Why not come and see us and plug in if you are still not convinced?

Hope this is helpful.

[Stampe]

Thanks ATCO 2 for amost lucid reply it was asI guessed.Your reasons are of course valid and your problems appreciated.None the less frustrating for me having been flying in the South-east for 26years to see all the controlled airspace effectively healing up to light aircraft.Luton and Stansted zones as well!!I appreciate your priorities but find I always recieve a superb service when flying my Boeing but often less so when in a basic light aircraft where perhaps help may be more needed especially in marginal wx.Then again wearing my PPl examiner hat I can well understand your reluctance to entertain some of the less able of our amateur fraternity to whom height/heading keeping and decent Rt seem to be missing skills.Resources permitting which of course they never will in this sad accountant driven country i,ve always felt that a dedicated Vfr /transit traffic radar controller with their own frequency for each zone would really help whilst keeping the main freq. clear for the heavy metal?Thanks again though for a good reply i,d like to plug in some time, are Thames still located At LHR or is it at Latcc?

[ATCO Two]

Hi Stampe,

Glad to see you appreciate the problems. It is ingrained in a Controller's psyche to try and always provide the best service available to all our customers, but in a commercial world as you say, we do not always have the resources to do so and therefore must prioritise our tasks. Things will get a lot worse for the PPL fraternity when (if?) NATS is privatised, unless pilots are prepared to pay for the service.
As for operating in marginal weather conditions or otherwise unsure of their position, I would like to encourage pilots flying anywhere near a major airport to immediately call on the appropriate frequency for assistance, or failing that on 121.5. Better this than to have a close encounter with a piece of heavy metal, or stop arrivals and departures at the airport, resulting in possible prosecution and a considerable fine. We are there to help, especially in emergency or potential emergency situations, so use us.
Thames Radar is thankfully still situated in the Control Tower Building at Heathrow (and long may it remain so!) E mail me privately if you ever want to visit.