Aus. ATC Training & Pay

[Jimmy Pop]

Hi,

Would any people in the employ of Airservices Australia be able to provide me with an insight of a rough figure of remuneration for an entry level controller. Also, does anyone know the length of the training for the tower controller positions which we be opening soon?

Thanks,

JP

[ferris]

The EBA is currently being negotiated, however; in college $27k, in field after passing college $35k, first rating and journeyman scale $47k to $62k, full performance controller $65k to $100k. Includes shift and weekend penalties, but not public holiday loading. (approx figures). 12 months in college, then 3 months to rate.

[turnleftnow]

Try 3 years in total for some trainees in the past through no fault of the trainee.

[Jimmy Pop]

Thanks for the info. These are A$ for work is Aus? I'll probaly get shot down for saying this but that seems allright to me! :D

[bugga]

An update to Ferris post 20/8
Current $ are approx $27 900 for ab-initio at commencement rising to $41 800 in final field tng.
On gaining rating and becoming a journeyman
$55 800 - $73 000
Risng to $78 700 - $ 105 400 for a Full Performance Controller
And $ 116 000 for Team Leaders (All approximates in $AUS.)
MAybe to rise with the new CA whenever it may appear.
:cool: :eek:

[divingduck]

Three years to check out????
Which centre was that in?
The training section should be taken out and ventilated :mad:

Good to see the "boom or bust" training regime again taking place. I've been watching (involved for 17 years) and it's a never ending cycle.
BTW those 100 guys retiring from the towers over the next couple of years will take years and years to replace.
After all the lead in time is at least 15 months.(and your body will be found in the carpark if you get one before any of the 1400 guys currently in line waiting.
Plenty of jobs there if you want them.
The money :) is pretty good when you consider the cost of living in Oz. :D :D :D

[Scott Voigt]

Shoot the normal training time here for a busy center is 3 to 4 years...

regards

[divingduck]

Hey Scott,
I think they are talking about the time it took to validate AFTER finishing their school time.
Correct me if I'm wrong guys.

It used to take 3 years in OZ, with some shortened courses for those with "significant aviation experience" and those took a year from go to woe.

I haven't been there for 4 years now so I'm not sure what is happening these days

:confused:

[Adamastor]

Don't be fooled by the big dollars being bandied around, Jimmy Pop. It currently takes about 13 years to get to the top of FPC and if management gets their way with the new certified agreement, many new controllers will NEVER get there! Those that do, it could take some 20 years!!!

Having said that, for God's sake don't let me put you off - do it because it's the best job in the world, not just for the money.

[Tweety]

Hi there diving duck,

I have made your ID!! How is life in Oman these days? Don't worry, you will never know who this is.

I too have been to the desert and back again, one might say.

As usual the ASA galahs do not have a clue what they are doing.

TTFN :D

[divingduck]

Hey Tweety!!

That wouldn't be the Canadian snow goose would it??

How was life with the eskimos?

Quack! ;) ;) ;)

[Tweety]

Duck my old mate,

I think you may have me confused with someone else. Not sure about this snow goose and eskimo thing. But i sure as eggs know you thoough.

Nice chatting though.

TTFN :D :D

[when_I_say_jump]

Reference the employ of Airservices, money is all fine and sweet, but what about location ? Is it a relatively difficult task to move around within the organisation (say between towers, centres etc..). I understand that ML and BN centres are somewhat seperate in their business, and transfers are remote. Does the same go for towers ?

Conversely, if you did want to stay in a particular location, do they consider personal needs ?

cheers

[Four Seven Eleven]

when_I_say_jump

Regarding transfers, If you end up in one of the centres (BN or ML), you can count on being there for life (no time off for good behaviour). The towers allow/force you to tranfer every so often. A typical progression for a tower controller would be:

College - 1 year, Capital city tower doing SMC/Clearance Delivery 1 to 2 years, Outstation/GAAP tower - 3 to 4 years, back to a capital city ADC - indefinite.

These are all subject to specific staffing needs. Personal preferences don't really come into it at all.

[ 28 August 2001: Message edited by: Four Seven Eleven ]
Edditted becuase I ca'nt tipe

[ 28 August 2001: Message edited by: Four Seven Eleven ]

[divingduck]

c'mon Tweety...fess up.
You didn't work in SY. BN, CG, Ab Dab, and now up in the tundra in Canada???
Speak oh great one... :confused: :confused: :confused:

the quackster

BTw what is this thread about anyway???

[tupela]

It seems to me that the pay is not what it used to be. I have just looked at all the info re the very near recruitment for ATC's with ASA and they state that whilst under training they will not contribute any allowances at all, there fore $27900 is it.Pretty hard to survive and support a family whilst under training. Also it states that the pay after initial training is just over 55K yet the transitional rates that I got from a mate who works at HR in ASA (dated July 01)states the 1st increment for a rated controller is 65K (BN Enroute). What is correct? Also they are placing a bond of 70K for a return of 5 years service, this sounds like the retention benifit that the RAAF controllers got only no benifit just the retention. Is this a new thing??? Last question, with 1400 or so waiting in the wings for TWR positions how will they feel when ASA picks ups some RAAFies or for that fact ab initio guys and gals for TWR positions?

Grate job though - I love it !!!! :cool: :cool: :cool:

[TrafficTraffic]

If you blokes are really deperate for ATC's there are 435 potential candidates about 4 miles off Christmas Island.

Duck leave Tweety alone he is busy working out his Shift penalaties and early marks, oh sorry none of those in Canada!

Did someone say "Make one right orbit while I do the coord...."?

:D

[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: TrafficTraffic ]

[divingduck]

hey traffictraffic,
nice to see we are thinking of the same lad :D :D :D
I heard about the "coord orbit" as did most of the world, within a few minutes of it happening!!! even though I was several thousand miles away :eek:
So Tweety......we know where you live :eek: (spoken in a flat Northern Irish accent)
Confess..you ARE the snow goose....admit it or more stories will be forthcoming!! :(

BTW...the pay?? Not as good as here to be sure, but beats sweeping the streets.

Traffic...shouldn't your location be the big grey screen?

[TrafficTraffic]

Ahhh the lost art of BS ATC banter......

Yes Duck I tawt I saw a pussycat ....as well.

As for the color(s) of my screen, no Im afraid it has two colors, Light Green and Dark Green (Black not withstanding!). But it has plenty of both shades to keep a young fella happy!

The Goose is on the loose, be verwy verwy cawreful.
:eek:

[The Crimson Fruitbat]

Enroute:
If you are a "Ronny", I think it is $27K for five months then its $46K for 6 weeks till rating then $65K but expect quite a bit more with all the extra bells and whistles......c$120K when you get to team leader :cool:

I think an experienced "Ronny" can skip most of the crap if in TWR stream. Get a few transfers though until you get to your final destination (Bris TWR do you Tupela????).

[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: The Crimson Fruitbat ]

[tupela]

Aa ha the fruitback strikes back. You pop in the most amazing places !!!!!!
Keep smiling "LIFE IS GOOD"

:D :D :D :D

[turnleft]

Upon rating base of Journeyman pay scale for new employees is $55K the previous posted figures relate to pay scales for people already employed by Airservices at the time of an early EBA. It currently takes 13 years to reach top of salary scale which is $105K or $116 for Team leader

[The Crimson Fruitbat]

So Tupela, me 'ol chum, did you apply or not?????? ;)

BTW here is the link to "the union", if the boyz 'n gals get militant you might get lucky...(gotta be in it to win it)

The "club" (http://www.civilair.asn.au/) :p

[PMS]

Hi there Duck and Traffic,

I know who you are but you don't know who I am. Yes, I am an Oz ATC as well.

Tweety and I are mates, and it seems that you have definitely pinned the wrong donkey in this case. Can you get off his case, unless you have positive proof.

Yes, I heard about the "orbit" thing as well. The lad you refer to (not tweety)is in Canada and from what I know is doing very well there.

Also, I hear that they think he is one of the better controllers there and that not manyof the Aussies would make it in Toronto AACC. From my understanding of how busy and complex it is I would have to agree with that observation and if it wasn't for that lads skills he would have never checked out. Surely, everyone is entitled to a guffaw now and then. :mad: :mad: :mad:

So give who ever it is you are talking about the cudos they deserve and get off tweetys back.
:D :D :D

Bye for now

[ProceduralVector]

PMS come on give us a break, Toronto AACC can't be brain surgery if the lad as you wish to call him (Not Tweety) is one of their better ones. I have worked with him and he is decent but no where near being a gun.
There are many Australian ATC's who have attained ratings throughout the world and to give Toronto AACC a tag like " Not Many of the Aussie ATC's would make it" you are speaking out of the place where the sun doesn't shine. GET REAL!!!!


Gidday Duck, how goes it in the great sandy desert. Can you still talk under water?

[ 09 September 2001: Message edited by: ProceduralVector ]

[ProceduralVector]

PMS, your mate Tweety wouldn't by any chance be in transit from YSTW to YMML would he???

[PMS]

PV,

Sorry buster, but in this case you are speaking out of place. If you have no idea of the complexity of the traffic there then you are speaking out of turn.

I have paid them a visit to that facility and sat down for a few hours during a busy session, and I tell you it is nothing like the walk in the park traffic that we may call busy at home in Oz it is chaotic to say the least. That is why I say not many ATC's in Oz could do it. I did not say he was a gun but had the ability and adaptability to make the change and check out.

Only comment if you know if you don't pull your head in. :mad: :mad: :mad:

As for Tweety it looks like you have pinned the wrong tail on the wrong animal. And even if I did know do you think I would tell you, please???
:D :D :D :D

[ 10 September 2001: Message edited by: PMS ]

[TrafficTraffic]

PMS,

Only comment if you know

you should pay attention to your own posts

that not manyof the Aussies would make it in Toronto AACC. From my understanding of how busy and complex it is I would have to agree with that observation

what a load of dribbel. You have sat in and seen it chaotic.....whilst I dont profess to have your all seeing all knowing abilities from my limited experience just about every sector/tower/app...has its busy periods. To draw a comment like not all aussies would make it, without 1) working there or 2) knowing all Aussies in the job (unless of course you are Dick Smith, then you know everyone) is what is commonly known in the trade as rash generalisation (BS). I dont doubt that Toronto is busy and complex but dont go making uneducated comments.

[ProceduralVector]

PMS, you truly must be a prat. From your wordly knowledge of maybe 1 day observation at Toronto ACC you have deduced that many ATC's in Aus couldn't make it. You have made this profound statement without knowing a majority of procedures,conflict areas
,military responsibilities etc. I can tell you, I have seen busy airspace in other countries as well and am currently working in one of them. I will agree with you, that yes they are busier, traffic wise, but not necessarily more complex, In several cases it can be merely traffic processing as there are a lot of aircraft but no conflicts. To make a generalisation like the one you have made is not just an indictment on the capabilities of AUS ATC's but highlights the complete lack of understanding you have when it comes to understanding the nature of different ATC Centres.
You should try to get a bit of world experience before making these uneducated remarks or shut up and stay in your little piece of utopia in AUS.
Or maybe you should take the Nike logo and
"Just shut up and do it" before making any futher comments


[ 10 September 2001: Message edited by: ProceduralVector ]

[ 10 September 2001: Message edited by: ProceduralVector ]

[PMS]

PV,
have been out of town for a while and have just surfed to the web and prune.

I believe that you are the Bart kid from Oz now working somewhere in Europe. Busy stuff over there in Euro land.

Life here in Oz is good.

TTFN :D :D

[ProceduralVector]

PMS,

Bart Kid ????
I don't know who you think I might be but this is not me
But is your sign in name the same as your initials. I love the pool story.

[Colin Brown]

I've read all the Oz banter with interest but can anyone in WA tell me whether there would be openings for an ATC in Perth? I'm married to a Perth girl and would eventually like to get her back to that part of the world.
I've been a military controller for most of my career, but the last 4 years have been spent in civil ATC, I hold UK Tower, App and App Radar ratings and would there be any realistic chance of staying put once there?

Many thanks

[ProceduralVector]

Colin,

It is a worth a try but I don't like your chances at the moment.

Firstly, with the collapse of Ansett, Airservices has started to cut the hours of non-operational staff. This indicates that if the reduction in revenue continues, that Redundancy in Controller ranks could well occur.
Secondly, there are a lot of people in Melbourne that have been forcibly transferred from Perth to Melbourne in recent times. If any vacancy came up in Perth, some not all, would have Twr and App ratings to apply for the positions. The union is still trying to argue with Airservices over an agreement (already signed by Management) for former Perth staff transferred to Melbourne to return, even if they don't hold those ratings.
Thirdly, there is still a real danger of the Perth TMA moving to Melbourne. If this occurs then there will be a lot of people wanting to stay in/or go to the Tower. This would then soak up any vacancies.
Apart from that, apply and give it a go. It can't hurt. You won't know if you don't apply.

[PMS]

PV,

No my sign in initials are notthe same as my initials. Would I be so incredibly stupid. I will give you hint: PMS as in female?

That should give you something to think about. What is this about a pool story, you have lost me on that one?

TTFN :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :eek:

[divingduck]

Hey PMS,
you in Brisvegas :cool:
or Melbooring? :rolleyes:

Just wondering...from the tones of some of your posts, perhaps you could purchase some starflower oil...I hear it helps with your syndrome ;)

To colin Brown...I agree with PV...but if you really want to get to WA, you could try the RAAF...they are promising just about anything to get bums in seats at the moment, you could be lucky. Pearce (their base in WA) is about 40 minutes drive north of Perth.
Good luck anyway, cheers :D

[TrafficTraffic]

PMS,

I know plenty of blokes that get it too. Come on Diving Duck is it really that bad in the Mid East? Has to be better than living near Bob Brock park!!!!

PV, you have way too much time on your hands, shouldnt you be studying or something!

I am convinced that PMS and the Canadian Snow Goose are like Clark Kent and Superman! Now if I can just remember where I left my ED book....I mean Kryptonite I could be sure.

:eek: :cool: :eek:

[ProceduralVector]

Traffic,
We would really know the identity of PMS if he/she replied " can you hang on a minute while I make a phone call " and then return 30mins later.
I think the female angle is a decoy. Although the person I am thinking of can be a bit of a girl sometimes.

[divingduck]

Hey TT, where's Bob Brock Park??

PMS=Snow Goose...hmmm possibilities... :eek:

Mind you, he/she sounds a bit punchy...kinda like one that used to be on TOPS then transferred down to Melbourne :confused:

Who knows???

[Check Wheels]

Now now girls, no need to get personal, nearly as bad as those pilots ('89 scabs versus non-scabs getting stuck into each other)

Rumours abound that training courses planned for 2002 are about to get the chop due to ASA bleating about revenue shortfall since Ansett collapsed.

If this is the case, I feel it is extremely shortsighted, the over 50's are still going to retire and need replacing.

Oh well, suppose that's typical Airservices planning (or lack thereof) :)

[TrafficTraffic]

"Holy revealing statements Batman" :eek:
".....Thats right Boy wonder, by using the 'Bart' nickname for PV, the evil Goose, aka PMS has told us his exact identity." :mad:
"Gosh Yes Batman but what will we do now..?"
"Like our own Identities, that of PMS shall be revealed to only a few..." :cool:
"You mean the few who read PPRUNE?"
"Yes Boy Wonder...." :D


As for you Duck, a while ago just around the corner towards Lake Kurwongbah you would have found Bob Brock park...but you knew that already didnt you!! :cool: ;)

No Controllers were injured or in any way harmed in the making of this post (It is only in fun)

[ 04 October 2001: Message edited by: TrafficTraffic ]

[chloe]

cb,
Perth? Are you sure?They've got chips on both shoulders over there.... :)