4 new hires quit Guf Air during training

[on_the_go]

hahahahhahaha.

4 new hire pilots at Gulf Air just quit after realising the lies told to them in the interview were not true and that the working conditions here are as bad as the rumors.

[EuroATC]

where were they from? what nationality?

[on_the_go]

1) New Zealand 767
2)Holland 767
3)1 from Sabena 340
4)1 Canadian no show 320
There was one more but don't know the equipment or Nationality

[Soft Altitude]

Hi All, some more details on the topic please !
Any idea what have they found different from what they've been told at the interview ? Haven't they had a copy of the contract before they joined ?
Many thanks . Cheers.

[ia1166]

Your post would suggest that you're in GF. if it's that bad that you want to laugh about your company having recruitment problems one wonders why you're still there?

[Soft Altitude]

First I am not the type of guy to laugh about anyone's misfortune, secondly I am not with GF, just have a friend of mine who had an interview with them last year and they did not say any lies to him.
Example: f/o 320 salary in the range of 3500 usd and 6 yrs to command, seems pretty fair of them to voice such things. Buddy turned down the offer at that time. I understand the salary and some of the benefits have been improved ever since.
Bottom line, I am just trying to understand what is going on, period.

[ia1166]

I was refering to the original post by on the go. my post is at the same time as yours. i don't type that quick

[tic]

On_The_Go
Where do you get your information from? Sounds like c--p to me. I've been in GF for 5 years odd, and yes definately it has faults, like ALL airlines, but personally I have never been lied to, from day one. Maybe the people you talk about, just couldn't hack the training or maybe it's too hot ( temp) for them. It suits me, and I'm happy where I am. In general very good people to fly with. Who cares about some of the routes. They are all the same at the end of the day. It's your job and maybe you should be thankful you have one that pays reasonably well in the 1st place.

[Safari Goat]

tic,

Are you a captain with GF? I hope so after 5 years.

Why not look at the F/Os that joined here over a year ago from other airlines with many many hours on the type of airplanes and have been by-passed for upgrade!

ask them how they like it here in AUH......????????

Well the F/os get lied to all the time my friend. It is a know fact

[billy34-kit]

....safari goat, right on! on the spot my dear friend...but when your are selfish like some here...they just can't understand what is all about!...Play fare with the guys, and they will play fare with you, don't need a master degree to understand that!

[Hajj Man]

Safari Goat,

You got it correct sir. I am affraid that the same sort of thing is all over the gulf region.

Many many of our F/os are being done the same thing over at QR

I often wonder if these captains that make it into management positions ever go back and take a look at when they were once F/Os and they got a jet comand how it was?

Some people have very short term memories with this sort of thing.

Please keep one thing in mind though. It is not the fault of the captain that got hired into the left seat and you should not take it out on him. It is the fault of the companys policy that does not do the upgrades.

So please don't be angree when you fly with that guy in the left, he is not to blame.

The captains in your airline that do the upgrades ( if they are any upgrades) should know that "THIS LEFT SEAT" is no big thing. Left or right, you do the same job. being on this left side all you do is sign the teck log book and say to the agent, "READY TO BOARD PAX" No extra brain cells required to do this.

Hajj Man:ok:

[BAE146]

true story..................Gulf Air don't lie !








They just don't always tell the truth :(

[Safari Goat]

Hajj Man,


Sounds like they are doing what they want over at QR just like they do here at Gulf Traveller...............

No regard for time in the aircraft or with the company is given to the F/O community..........NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LIES LIES LIES all the time. They bate the hook and get you here in the interview, then they change the rules every month or so after you join.

Anyone looking to come to the gulf that reads PPRUNE ask a question about "how many times has the rules changed for any policy in the last 6 months?" then look at the trend and direction it is going? That will show you.

This is my advice to all Gulf Air or Traveller Wanabees.

[ia1166]

Gulf Air is promoting f/os at a fair old rate. as fast the training department and sim time will allow at any rate. Just coz you've been here 1 year, why should you jump the queue on the other guys who have been here for a lot longer?

I won't even attempt to respond to "the only difference is signing the tech log". You have no idea buddy.

[shrewd]

Hajj Mann,

Your comments are so becomming of someone who has definitely not been in the right seat long enough. :confused:

Reading this thread it is apparant that people do not have any idea of the GF or the GT seniority lists. Joining a company and expecting a command by bypassing all the current F/O's just because they have the hours! What about those who have been in the saddle for more than 5 years and are patiently waiting their turn! It is 'boys' like you who flit from company to company hopping for a quick command that seem to have this 'Attitude' and eventualy never get anywhere near the LHS.:{

[ia1166]

You guys are very bitter. Command courses are coming but they take time. the company can't just give you tapes overnight. despite what you think that its all about signing the tech log etc. you better not turn up on day one of your course with that attitude or you will end up back on line in the RHS pretty quickly. you are all sounding like the wrong stuff to be pretty honest. better for everybody if you leave and take your attitude elsewhere.

[Hajj Man]

ia1166 and Shrewd,

I think you are getting my tone all wrong here.

I am a BIG ADVOCATE of SENIORITY. i think, the date you were hired should be how seniority works. To see companys just by pass the most senior f/os and bring in direct entry LHS guys is not nice.

Gulf Air and Gulf Traveller might have the senior f/os at 5 years with the company and I am saying. UPGRADE THEM!!

I am not saying to take a f/o of 1 year and jump this guy. I am saying that any f/o senior should be given the opportunity to upgrade long before any one direct entry.

I see over in the US and canada you join a company, you go to the bottom of the list and fly the seat that "NO ONE WANTS" i.e a flight engineer seat or the RHS on a small aircraft. then you work your way up to the other seats "BY SENIORITY"

Over in this part of the world a seniority list ( if you ever see one) means NOTHING AT ALL..........

Many captains from non-schedule carriers who have flown 747-400, L-1011, A-300, MD-11, 767 and large pieces of metal when they join the airlines in the USA and Canada like Air Canada, Delta, United, American Airlines, Northwest,Jetblue ........... ALL GO TO THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST and start there.

To me seniority with your company is EVERYTHING, if you choose to "PULL CHOCKS" and move to another airline,country,life then you choose to go to the bottom of the pack and not jump those that have been there 1,2,3,4,5 or even 6 years as a F/O.

A fair old rate................. what is that rate??, A token one or two a month maybe to keep their hopes up?.... That my friend is not a fair old rate.............

I have been both a captain and a first officer Mr ia1166 and i have sat in many a jumpseat observing other crews. Both a Captain and a F/O (of some sort of experience and not wet behind the ears) DO THE EXACT SAME JOB EXCEPT FOR THE FACT FOR SIGNING THE TECH LOG. I am sorry to tell you this little fact sir but the truth does hurt and I can see now why you feel offended by this remark, Sorry to offend you.

These f/os should be bitter if direct entry captains come in ahead of them,Would'nt you be bitter if you were in a right seat with many years in a company and got looked over by some person coming in direct ahead of you?

Put yourself in their sandals my friend and think of it.

HM:ok:

[ia1166]

Just coz you've sat in the RHS for 5 years does not automatically qualify you for the LHS buddy. You only have to look at a certain accident in the Gulf a couple of years ago to prove this. It put the stoppers on a lot of upgrades throughout the region.

I do however agree with some of your points. But if the training department can't cope with the number of upgrades required what are the options. The company could just pop some command tapes in your mail slot at work and off you go, or it could promote as many as the training department can deal with and recruit direct entry. I know which i'd prefer.

The best option would be to go down the list of FOs and find the guys who have the ability and experience to pass a somewhat shorter command course. Pass over the guys who have had a shot at it and not made it. A lot of airlines operate a 2 or 3 strike policy. ie you volunteer yourself for a command course, it's a lot more intensive than ours but also a lot shorter. if you fail it twice you're out of the company. The guys who know they would struggle would not volunteer so the guys who are good can get ahead. It's a proven system and it works. Instead we have a very long command course where the candidate is virtually led by the nose. all the sim sessions are scripted and the upgrader has a copy of it. How easy is that? Most other command courses that i know of are half as long with no warning of what you'll get. Fail a session and you're out.

What a rant, but thats it

[Hajj Man]

ia1166,

you are correct with the 2-3 times strike and you are out for the upgrade. I also agree with the look down the list "IN SENIORITY" and pick the guys/gals that meet the qualification and give them the oportunity to go for the upgrade.

The thing is over at QR the bar keeps getting raised every few months on the requirements for the upgrade and people that were hired 2 years ago as F/Os were told that a command would come there way and now the bar gets raised to 3 years with the company, then you have to go threw an interview and now more and more little criteria keep on being added to these guys and the promise at the initial interview, 2.5 years ago has changed.

When the company hired these folks 2 years ago and the policy was "UPGRADE IN 2 YEARS" they should know that the people they accept for the job are good pilots and will be ready or are ready already to be in the LHS of QR.

Some of, if not most of the guys that were hired 2 years ago have plenty of experience to be in the LHS in QR.

I am sure it is the same over at Gulf air and Gulf Traveler and hope to see that these pilots are given a chance to upgrade because the moral of the f/os is going in a southernly direction everytime they come close to upgrade and then told "the requirements changed"

I agree that just because you sat in the RHS for 5 years does not make you ready and I agree with all you said about the ability and experience.

Over at QR they are hiring a guy from a 737 that only flew in Indian with Jet Airways who they sat in the sim with for 35 mins, who has far less time or experience than some of our f/os at QR and giving him a LHS on a A-300? Come on this is not right as we have guys here in the RHS at QR that have flown 727 captains and prop aircraft captain with 9000 to 10000 hours who are being left in the RHS whilst this 737 "Captain " from jet comes in and has never even spoken on a HF or does not even know how to spell UK. That is wrong for us at QR.

At GA or GT I don't know if this is the same but i would like to see every F/O that has the time and experience over there given a chance to sit in the LHS soon.

Good luck to all of them over at GA and GT hope that all works out well for them.

Thanks for listening.

HM:ok:

[oryxbollocks]

Don't know what it's like over at Gulf, but here at QR there is no hint of promotion. Perhaps it's a lack of confidence in their ability to train from RHS to left?

The change of the 'time in the company' for command has caused a lot of problems with respect to morale amongst the FO's here. While the Gulf Air accident was tragic, it should never have resulted in such a knee-jerk change to the upgrade requirements throughout the region. Anyone reading the accident report can see this was not the root cause.

I know we're off the track here a little as this was started as a Gulf Air topic. However, believe me there are a good number of FO's here in QR who should be being upgraded right now!

GB

[Safari Goat]

here at GA and GT there are also F/Os who should be upgraded but as you said the crash really has them kind of gun shy with the upgrades.
Some of the F/Os here at GT come from Major airlines in the USA and Canada and around the world that start training you from the time you join the airline to the time you get selected in order of seniority, to upgrade. You are treated and are let to make decisions on the day to day flight all the time just as though you were a captain so that when you one day get the chance to upgrade it is not going to be a long drown out coarse of how to think.
The problem with over here at Gulf is that they don't realise that these F/Os, some of them at least have the know how to sit in the left seat and get the big jet out safe, on time and from one place to another with people,bags and crew all happy and safe.
You need to wonder why they think a person from another airline knows and will perform in the LHS, how GA or GT want the job done. Some of them have no real idea what is priority and what makes a airline work. Why not give the F/O that has been here in the day to day operation a chance to prove that he can do it well and good.

[MFPLT]

This thread like many veer off the subject and become a slanging match between pilots no wonder management hold pilots in contempt. So these are the facts.

1. Promotion in Gulf Air and Traveller is on date of joining.

2. The company continue to hire Direct entry Captains some with far less experience than First Officer within the company.

3. To encourage people to join someone has been indicating that promotion will be more rapid than it is. Pilots do not resign while still in training if this was not the case.

4. Contract pilots being hired are given date of joining seniority and higher pay.

For those saying in Gulf Air that upgrade to Captain in 5 to 7 years is acceptable I couldn’t agree more. But many FO have over 10 years airline experience and are being bypassed by Captain with far less experience. Company states it is for expedience.

If promotion is by date of joining than all FO should be given the opportunity that meet the experience and qualifications before direct entry Captains are hired.

If Gulf Air continues down this path many more FO will leave for operators with a more consistent reputation. This will leave a big gap in the experience levels and create a serious deficit in safety.

[vfenext]

Promotion in GF is based on date of initial line check. You can end up with an earlier joining date than guys who go ahead of you for fleet change or upgrade. The contract money for Captains on 330/340 is only $7000 I dont think thats more than a line pilot would make, or is it? Anyway its quite a bit below the norm for contract.

[Edward555]

Funny that those guys bolted after seeing Gulf first hand.

Gulf Air has this funny agreement with one of their Headhunting firms that the new-hire's will stay on property after the interview. What if the new-hire doesn't want to stay? Or what if the new-hire has other interviews to consider? That is what happened to me...I scheduled the Gulf interview last and as a result, I took a job elswhere! Not too smart Gulf Air!!!! Thanks for saving me the time though. :D

[GULFPILOT76]

Hi,

I know one of the guys that jumped ship after only 3 weeks doing the rat race around the office etc.,etc. He told me the following story.

1. He was assigned to AUH as a base, made preparations for 2 kids in school. His wife found a very high paying management job with a bank as an accountant. Then after he arrived in BAH he was told that his base was changed to BAH.

2. Bahrains rental rates for accommodation have skyrocketed in the last year because of Saudi expats moving to Bahrain, so no house unless he payed double the allowance or more.

3. The talk on the interview gave a suggestion of about 3 to 4 years before command for guys with the hours which we all know is not the way it goes. The only way to get a command is to get IN as a captain if you are an expat.

He came back and was lucky that his job was still there, but he could not go back to his house because it was rented out.

This is the true story of a collegae who was planning to leave everything behind to start a new life. Out of my own experience with GF I know that for some strange reason they loose to many pilots, and it seems they don't really care.

[Becassine]

When I went for the interview a year ago, I was promised company accomodation in AUH, along as everybody else who joined at the same time. When we turned up in AUH 3 months later, we discovered that there was no such thing as company accomodation AND we were stuck in a hotel for 4 months waiting for our residence visas. In the UAE, you cannot do anything without a visa: rent a house or get a local driving licence... Some of us were stuck in a hotel room with young kids for all that time... pretty poor show eh??? then you wonder why people quit! I don't blame them!