Jet Star helping out Virgin Blue !

[Whiskery]

HERALD SUN 12/06/2004

Blue in the pink

12jun04

JETSTAR'S check-in policy, which has left hordes of passengers angry and flightless, may now have delivered a record number of passengers to low fare rival Virgin Blue.

Virgin Blue yesterday reached a personal best of 40,000 passengers booked in a day – the highest number since the airline's inception in August 2000.
Some put the bounce down to Jetstar's rule of grounding passengers for checking in minutes late.

Up to 20 Jetstar passengers a day are believed to be switching to Virgin Blue after being knocked back at Tullamarine from their Jetstar flights.

But Jetstar spokesman Simon Westaway said incidents of rejected minutes-late passengers were isolated.

What's going on Geoff ?

I see my QAN shares dropped another 3 cents yesterday. I can understand you wishing to drive down wages in the "QF domestic" workforce but you can't do it at the expense of the whole Company.

Get your act together or I'm bailing out and buying VBA. :mad:

[Icarus2001]

reached a personal best of 40,000 passengers booked in a day
Up to 20 Jetstar passengers a day are believed to be switching to Virgin Blue

Hardly a large %!!!! There is that word again believed.

Lets say they carry about 30,000 passengers a day with 30 being disgruntled Jetstar latecomers. That would be 0.1%.

Jetstar may be losing the PR battle at present but it remains to be seen if they can win the market share and yield war.

[cunninglinguist]

yep Vb shares, thats a good idea, still around 10% down on issue price as opposed to QF at around 100% up.:}

So the previous best was 39,980 and Qf have bumped it up to 40000 ? Geoffrey must be shaking in his boots.:confused:

[ur2]

It was noted last week that $10m worth of VB shares were sold by VB management.
Nothing like confidence in the continued viability of the company that you manage.
Why have they sold up ?

[Icarus2001]

Everytime someone sells their shares someone buys them. Perhaps they thought it time to realise a paper profit.

[TIMMEEEE]

Whilst certainly no fan of Jet Star I reackon the advent of their check-in rules should be implemented by other airlines.

The headline by the Herald Sun sounds like plain old spite and bias.
If thats the cost of providing an effective and on-time service then go for it!!

It's only a matter of time this procedure becomes the standard because the other operators will realise just how expensive delays really are.
Just look at Europe and the penalties applied for lateness and the end result - a bay not being available at the other end.

A good friend doing contract work told me of having to hold at a stand-off point for 35 mins at Orly Airport (Paris) because they were 25 mins late due to a late departure at Gatwick.
They were not permitted to disembark as there were no facilities to get the pax safely to the terminal, let alone air-stairs!

Slack pax that get their boarding passes and dont show up should be the next to go unless they have a valid excuse.

Pax complain naturally enough, but if it is a universal rule then they will accept it.
Besides, who's always the first to complain when the aircraft arrives a minute or two late???

The procedure of shutting off the flight 30 mins before and having the doors closed with pax aboard 5 minutes prior should be actively practiced.

[QF skywalker]

Gee, funny how you all don't know about the huge dramas at YBBN yesterday at the DJ terminal.

Computers went down for 1.5 hours causing major dramas on the start of the long weekend. Passengers were delayed up to 2 hours due to guest services staff having to manually check in the punters. Flight attendants were assisting out in the checkin area with que's because the pax were lined up down to Jetstar.

2 Flights were cancelled and one delayed over 2 hours.. MANY pax re-booked on to QANTAS flights.

Funny how the media doesn't get hold of this...but if it was Jet* who had the problem yesterday....well, front page news of course... " New discount airline runs into further trouble "

Jetstar sends them to Virgin....Virgin sends them to QANTAS.

[Zed]

Whiskery, I doubt very much if a few punters not being allowed to board a flight has any relevance to the QF share price or effect QF bottom line.

The most likely impact on the QF share price this week, was the expected sale of QF terminals and then the decision not to sell.

[SydGirl]

To expand on Icarus2001's numerical theory...

Lets say they carry about 30,000 passengers a day with 30 being disgruntled Jetstar latecomers. That would be 0.1%.

This would therefore mean 29,970 satisfied passengers, none of whom are p*ssed off because they had to wait for some *sshole to drag his butt out of the QF club.

Ok I feel better now.
SG
:}

[cunninglinguist]

QF Skywalker, I tkink most airlines ( if not all ) are pretty much the same, everybody has a bad story about one of them.

The big difference with VB is their self promotion, and their knocking of the opposition, they are media animals/sweethearts and QF are'nt.
Just look at some of their ads :yuk:

[Dehavillanddriver]

Just a thought.

If you were denied boarding and the jet then left 5 minutes early do you think that you would be a tad cranky?

Timmee's suggestion

The procedure of shutting off the flight 30 mins before and having the doors closed with pax aboard 5 minutes prior should be actively practiced.

effectively means that you have reduced your turn around by 5 minutes if doing a push back. If you are on a stand off bay then it is a slightly different matter - but nonetheless, closing the doors 5 minutes BEFORE your advertised departure time if effectively reducing your turn around times by 5 minutes.

Timmee - this isn't a go at you by any means - please don't take it that way - but on time performance should mean exactly that - ON TIME. not early and not late.

If you are consistently getting your pax on board and are ready to go 5 minutes before you could relaxe the check in cutoff by 5 minutes and still achieve an on-time departure and not piss as many punters off.

As a matter of interest - Ditzy Boy in a post somewhere said that they board 17 minutes prior to departure. that leaves 13 minutes between the last check in and the commencement of boarding. In the smaller airports where the distance between check in, security and the gate is relatively short - don't you think that they could be a little more "customer focused"?

After all the punters at the end of the day pay the bills and by effectively telling them to jam their ticket if they are late J* (and any other airline) stand to be the loosers.

I am not suggesting that people that check in 5 minutes before departure get on - but be a little more focused on the people that write the cheques.

[Icarus2001]

After all the punters at the end of the day pay the bills I am not suggesting that people that check in 5 minutes before departure get on - but be a little more focused on the people that write the cheques.

If there are 140 passengers and two are late and cannot check in. The other 138 who are writing the pay checks for the airline staff will no doubt be very happy with the on time departure.

Pandering to minority groups seems to have become a national disease.

[Kaptin M]

And especially so if the 2 who failed to check-in on time were non-male, gender neutral, divorced, non-white, non-Australian, cleanliness-challenged, psychologically and sexually abused, financially crippled, illiterate vegans, visiting their dying relative in a McDonalds store!

The press LOVE 'em, Icarus - that twang of the heart strings, that portrayal of the "little man" being hammered down even lower!

(Think I'll start a marketing agency!!)

[TIMMEEEE]

Kap M, we think on similar terms in this case however I was actually looking for the one-eyed aboriginal lesbian with a speech impediment!!

Lets pander to that minority group !!

[planemad2]

Obviously getting the flights out on time is important to any Airline.

However from a PR point of view, this action of JetStar is hard to understand.

Why don't JetStar advertise a 40 or 45 minute cut off time, with these penalties etc, then when passengers turn up at say 30-35 minutes before the flight, they could say "we will try to get you on this time", knowing that they can, however then both the passengers AND JetStar would be happy.

[commander adama]

planemad2


What planet are you from? If you aren't going to contribute constructively then don't post anything at all

[planemad2]

Sorry, I thought that WAS constructive?

Please continue the normal abuse etc without me.

[TIMMEEEE]

DeHavilland Driver, no worries.

My point is that the travelling public needs to be effectively toilet trained so to speak.

It's only a matter of time before Australia becomes a bit like Europe and the importance of on-time arrivals and the possibility of losing a slot can cause all sorts of hassles.

At least someone is taking the initiative.
I agree that they advertise the times and as a consequence why should the majority of on time pax be inconvenienced by one or two morons or fashionably late stragglers?

I do however believe that if late then on that ticket you may be able to list on the next flight but only once per ticket.

Hit them in the hip pocket and they will learn.
Shame we cant roll up a newpaper and smack them over the nose like a rotweiller!!

[Pete Conrad]

Here he is!! commander assdama, with his quote;

What planet are you from? If you aren't going to contribute constructively then don't post anything at all

Thats a bit rich coming from you assdama isn't it?

We know who you are assdama - why don't you go buy yourself a toupee with some brains in it?

[Watchdog]

Oh for "Pete's" sake - GROW UP!
My 8 year old carries on like that.
:8 :{ :8

[Mr.Buzzy]

Dicko and his mates must be laughing with glee!!

"Those pilots are all divided and therefore conquered"

NO BUTS!

[Wheeler]

I've flown VB quite a few times lately. They are nearly always cheaper, especially if I book late. If I check in with 20 mins to spare I don't even get a sarcastic comment and I cannot recall a late departure. (did have a late arrival at Perth though - normal for this time of year I spose!)

[Whiskery]

TIMEEE absolutely correct ! You fly any of the no frills over here and you had better check in no later than an hour before departure. No one misses the flight here because they are well trained.

Zed - fair enough. I'll hang onto QAN a little longer then;)

[OZBUSDRIVER]

G'Day All

I hope that what Mr Dixon is trying to push on us SLF with DebtStar doesn't flourish. My case in point...Last Wednesday I was due to catch QF634 for BN out of ML, planned ETA for check-in was 1820 approx 20 mins prior to 30min check-in of 1840 for a 1910 departure. Departed home at required time of 1730 for the normal 50 min trip to ML on Monash freeway. Sign boards showed full red delay to Springvale Rd, two trucks had either lost their load or broke down crossing both on ramp and two lanes of traffic. No probs will still arrive on 1830 check-in time. Further up road Sign boards show another delay that will push my ETA to way past 1840 check-in time to nearly 1855. There was a prang on Westgate bridge. Panic call to customer services with problem, they inform me that I must get to check-in no later than 1850. "ignore the line-up go directly to first available check-in counter" was the instructions. I made check-in right on 1850. Rushed thru to gate just as last pax boarding . We pushed back 1 minute early. Now Mr Dixon, If I was STUPID enough to book with your DebtStar I would have missed my flight and would have had to cough up another nearly $400.00 for another flight out of AV with no other option, for something that was out of my control. Now I admit I am not a regular customer. I have to fly to Bn possibly 4 to 6 times a year. BUT I will never fly with anyone who will not make an effort to accommodate unforseen problems.

Hypothetically thinking here. If I was 10 minutes late in HB the other day and missed the required check-in time then the plane was delayed for 3 hours, would I still be allowed to board that flight? Rules is rules!

Regards

Mark

[404 Titan]

OZBUSDRIVER

Well you were lucky it was QF and not J*. If I was the captain of that flight and it looked like this was going to delay the flight, I would have demanded the airport supervisor explain why the flight was left open beyond the 30-minute cutoff time. I’m sure that most people that miss flights think they leave home with plenty of time to spare. Why should any airline inconvenience the majority that do make the trouble to get to the airport with plenty of time to spare because of some that leave it way too fine. I’m not saying you have, but don’t blame the airline if it leaves without you. Sob stories don’t cut it on my flight deck and if you aren’t there on time and the ground staff are hesitating (which I can tell you in my outfit they wouldn’t be), I will order the door closed. The effects of a late departure on OTP for the rest of the day is way too big a price to pay for a couple of late passengers. Sorry but they are the facts and you will have to live with it. If you think J* started this you are very mistaken. QF, DJ, SQ, CX, etc all have very rigid check in times. All I can say is you were very lucky this time.

[Lusimtingting]

Was it the airlines fault that you were late arriving at the airport ?. Yes,you made Qantas by the skin of your teeth but you also know the rules for Jetstar check-in.
What does Debtstar mean....I know of an airline called Jetstar

[DutchRoll]

You must be blessed by the almighty R.B. himself, Wheeler.

I know several people who have hunted around for cheap east coast fares recently and have found the cheapest offered by Qantas!

[commander adama]

OZBUSDRIVER

Do as your name says. Grab a bus. Your crappy story is a joke and I would take little pity in turning you down. Eventually you morons who cannot get to an airport on time will learn.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

404Titan Thanks for reply.

You missed the point mate! If I was STUPID enough to book on Jet* I would have missed the flight regardless . With QF if I could make the check-in counters by 1850 I could load. CS rep was very specific on this point. They even went as far to inform check-in staff to keep an eye out for me. Good people skils and This did not result in ANY delay to an on time departure

Point is Jetstar IS TOO INFLEXIBLE. I would be the first to say CU if I was late for a flight. After all its my own bad luck. This case QF was kind enough to allow SOME leeway. It is not as if I am some DH wandering around thinking I can hold up an airline departure.



commanda adama or whatever. A crappy story but true. Just remember that your people skills determine whether or not you get repeat business. You wanna burn me and people like me you will soon be out of business!

Regards

Mark

[commander adama]

Farquus

You are nothing but a drop in the ocean. Whether it be an airline or any other business big or small. It doesn't take much to piss a customer off. They threaten, carry on, cry, go elsewhere comeback later etc. All it takes is bad customer service, inferior product or a desire to change the product. Jetstar like any other business supplies a product. You don't like it you go else where. But for #ucks sake if you can't even pick up that product don't go blaming someone else where 99.% of others can manage. Try this in Europe and you will be laughed out down the road.:mad:

[HAMO]

OZBUSDRIVER

I'll ask you this - if QF denied you boarding, would you still say what great customer service they offered?

No, you would say that they were inflexible etc etc - same as what you are inferring with Jetstar

At the end of the day, doesnt matter which airline, whatever circumstances, etc, whenever you deny boarding to the pax checking in late, the pax will get the sh..ts and blame it on everyone apart from himself.

Trust me, I see this everyday, and no, I dont work for JStar

[Pete Conrad]

commander assthumpa, I mean commander assdama...interesting..

You quote..You are nothing but a drop in the ocean..THOSE drops in the ocean as you put them actually pay the wages of people like me and you.

You quote...It doesn't take much to piss a customer off. They threaten, carry on, cry, go elsewhere comeback later etc....THIS is where you people need to be doing just that little bit more to go the extra mile to ensure you don't piss these people off too much - you know the ones assdama - the ones that pay YOUR wages. A little bit of compassion can go a loooong way

You quote...Jetstar like any other business supplies a product. You don't like it you go else where.....What you fail to see is that your mob are like every other business in the QF group....YOU have to be successful, otherwise, your right people will go elsewhere - Virgin.

You see assdama - people in the QF group don't really want to get tarnished by the likes of you - regarding YOUR quote of people getting laughed at down the road in Europe...how about YOU enlighten us with examples?

assdama - gotta hand it to you, you display arrogance,ignorance and contempt for the people that pay YOUR wages at a level that others in the QF group would be ashamed of.

I've said it before assdama - and I'll say it again;

Your comments are like your lower intestine assthumpa, crikey!! assdama - stinking and very much loaded with danger.

Retard,retard,retard...thumpa.

[Watchdog]

404Titan,
I totally agree.

At a management level higher than this forum, this is precisely the plan. They don't want to make Jet* a replacement for QF, so they make it flexible. Accordingly the business traveller, who's plans can change/delayed at meetings etc are motivated, by the risk of doing their $, to book QF.
Jet* targets leisure traveller - mum, dad and the kids who's highest priority for the day is to get out of town. The pack their bags early and are ready to go.

Back in the good old days I can recall the CSO at regional airport telling me "just waiting for Mr Jones, he's always late but he knows we will wait for him".
The CSO was delighted when I said "Well, not this little black duck" and he spent the weekend in the country. It was a hub-spoke operation with flow on effects for waiting 10 mins. Know what...Mr Jones was NEVER late again in the ensuing 2 years.

Pete Conrad , really? Does someone pay you to work. Your immaturity leads me to believe that you would be under minimum age for employment in OZ :{

[Chuck Magutzup]

Watchdog. I think you have completely missed the point of this whole thread. You don't accommodate the Mr Jones' of the world. They are terminally late. They get what they deserve.

I live in Brisbane. The traffic there is woefully unpredictable. Most times, the run in is smooth and quick. Then some clown does something stupid on the airport roundabout. You are stuck. And late. Through no fault of your own.

No one is suggesting that aircraft be perpetually delayed. But I will tell you this. You CAN delay check in until 15 mins prior - AND THE AIRCRAFT CAN STILL GET AWAY ON TIME!

The anal way that Jetscab goes about doing business will only be detrimental to the entire QF group. Pete is correct in what he states, watchdog. They are an embarrasment.

Yes, that includes you adama. You abuse, threaten, and you never really add anything to a discussion except vitriol. Well, mate. You disgust me.

Pete? Adama won't give you examples. He's only ever flown 1900's and 717's. He hasn't been outside Australia. He simply has no concept, but he does have a big mouth.

[commander adama]

Gee Petey

Are you a changed man? Ok you still have a vendetta against me but I will answer you.


Yes these drops in the oceans pay wages. However Petey I think you should be old enough and ugly enough to realise no amount of good customer service will sway a passenger once they have made up their mind to be pissed off. You can smile, be sympathetic, offer alternatives, cop abuse etc. Nothing will change them now. They want to hold up the flight and board. Crikey they know the pax and a/c are still at the gate which makes it worse.

Think about it Petey.

Then you hear their pitiful excuses such as a mum with 6 kids driving a Tarago caused the traffic to slow down, I took a detour and ended up at a no through road then i was running late and got booked for speeding blah blah blah.

Get to the airport early and give yourself time. Petey come on, customers change sides on a daily basis even a twit such as yourself should see that. It doesn't take much to lose a customer. Enforcing rules usually does this.

Now that you mention your wages. Petey I'm sorry but I am jacked off with big taxes and having to be social securiety to bums is a disgrace. Get off ya ass and find a job!!!

[Pete Conrad]

Watchdog - is that the best you can do? simply disagree for the sake of disagreeing, or posting holier than thou posts on what I say. Get a life mate, and yes I do work, have done in this industry for 17 years in fact, so how about you go back to your 8 year old and stop wasting space. If you don't like what I have to say - simple, don't read it.

assdama - I don't have a vendetta out against you mate, I just remember when you used to be thumpa, and the dick you made of yourself by posting the Pete Conrad diatribe that got you banned from pprune. Now that you have come back as assdama, I'm just easily amused by you.

assdama - bottom line is, your the twit, you get on here and have a go at the mums and dads that pay yours and mine wages.

Yes passengers are fickle, I saw this very much first hand seeing public servants board the Saab in Canberra back in Kendell days, but the pax you refer to are not fat cats, they are mostly every day folks that would not normally fly, so are probably not really up with the airline scheme of things like you or I.

Walk around T2 in Sydney, or any terminal that is, people that don't fly very often look totally bemused in airports, they are out of their comfort zone.

And when was the last time you got caught in traffic? did you plan it that way? Did you leave home wanting to be late? No, well neither did these guys.

It's hardly fair to criticise them for not being as aviation savvy as you and I.

Fact is, a bit of compassion goes a long way.

Watchdog, you have anything of substance to add, or are you just going to post rubbish about my age, religion, sex, race, voting preference, career to date - I mean you seem to know more about me that I know about myself. Heres a thought, why don't you just sit down and have a great big cup of shut the fark up!!

[commander adama]

Petey

Campassion. I could not agree more. Customer service is the utmost of importance. However rules are rules and they are to be enforced. There is no nice way of turning someone down apart from being as sorry as you can be. At the end of the day they will blame the airline for enforcing their conditions.

Customer service. Be it Telstra, NRMA or Hungry Jacks you get the good and the bad on the front desk. You can not generalise.

Good to see you are calming down Petey.

[Pete Conrad]

I write with a chuckle assdama. Unfortunately the likes of watchdog take it all too seriously and fail to see the mirth behind it all.Probably due to their own lack of wit and intellect.

As much as pax frustrate us, we still have to remember who pays our wages. It's academic to you and I anyway, we don't deal with the public where we sit. And you certainly can't blame CSO's who have been in the job a long time seeing the same thing over and over again, hearing the same excuses over and over again for being a bit terse, however this is a service industry.

Your absolutely correct, at times there is no nice way to turn people down, but everybody can learn to show compassion, especially to those who aren't as aviation savvy as the likes of us.

Heck, what do I know about customer service, I'm just a pilot - having said that, back in the days of Kendell, we used to greet pax at the bottom of stairs and see them off at destination. It's amazing at how a little gesture like that used to be one of the main reasons why people would come back and fly with Kendell.

Oh the good old days.

[Watchdog]

Pete Conrad,
It's good to see that you are finally displaying a little maturity (well your last post) so perhaps I've alerted you to your ways. I don't disagree for the sake of disagreeing however I always attempt to maintain an open mind and leave out personal bias. What I don't like is immaturity, so I target such fools.
IF you have "been in this industry for 17 years" then you should know better and, not that seniority counts here, you're behind me.

Magutzup,
I do see the point, and I agree that the loss of the airfare due to being late is actually too tough, certainly though, there's nothing wrong with a firm cutoff time. You might be able to get a small aircraft away with a 15 mins cutoff, but at a large terminal, with long walks to the gate, security, baggage belts/sorting and baggage handlers whom service several departures - not reliably.
Come at look at LAX!
I would have thought that allow the no-show could be made a subload only on any future flights would be a good alternative.

The anal way that Jetscab goes about doing business will only be detrimental to the entire QF group.
How? Different trading names etc. Would it affect Australian, Qantaslink? I think not.

Additionally why do you call this company Jetscab? Was the company involved in the OZ '89, or perhaps the US ATC strikes? I think not.


OZBUS,
your example about a quick cutoff time is no problem if the airline is staffed sufficiently to do this, even down to load controllers, eg QF. My paragraph above to Magutzup expands on this.


Mature, unbiased comments please, or be labeled a fool.

[Pete Conrad]

Watchdog,must get tiresome trying to be a wellspring? You want to sit on pprune and target immaturity?

You have actually contradicted yourself - you want to leave out personal bias? Why did you post;

Pete Conrad , really? Does someone pay you to work. Your immaturity leads me to believe that you would be under minimum age for employment in OZ..nice one watchdog..or how about;

IF you have "been in this industry for 17 years" then you should know better and, not that seniority counts here, you're behind me.....well watchdog, tell me how long I have been in the industry, you old wellspring? or how about.....

Oh for "Pete's" sake - GROW UP!
My 8 year old carries on like that.

mmmmmm-usefull comments from a person who tries so hard to elevate himself above the "immaturity" on pprune.

Like I said, probably as a result of your arteries narrowing to the point where it clouds your reasoning, you can't actually see that alot of this is actually banter, you take it too seriously old timer, you may just vapour lock.

Mature, unbiased opinions please, or be like watchdog.

Spare me watchdog.

[Watchdog]

Oh for "Pete's" sake - GROW UP! :8

[Chuck Magutzup]

I think you have just made the point for yourself, WD. That is that Jetscab doesnt fly to LAX. The ports they do fly into CAN manage a 15 min cutoff if required. If we can do it at QF with a 737, then why not with a 717 or 320?

Why do I call them Jetscab? You havent read any of my previous posts, or those of Pete or Proplever or fartsock? They are referred to as such because they are undermining the remainder of the industry. They have offered to carry out the same job as their compatriots for half of the pay. Their pay is abominable. So are they.

Adama? Werent you recently having a go at someone for their spelling. Hypocrite!

[200psi]

On another but similar thread I mentioned an upcoming trip on Jet*, well safely back I have a couple of points.

Arrived at my departure airport with oodles of time to check in IAW Jet*s advice, 0330 wake up call yuk. Got sequence 1 and thought this will be the closest I will ever get to the front. Departure time was 0600 at 0555 still not boarding mmmmm. PA announced those with 1 thru 50 line up good grief, might as well wipe my butt with my sequence no 1 boarding pass, you would have thought it was recess at a school tuck shop the way the gate was stampeeded, not for me sorry too Joe cool for that.

Airborne 22mins 30 secs late after a very rushed and unproffesional safety brief. It gets better the Capt comes on the PA and starts making excuses. The usual host of technical snags etc were rolled out but the best was an explanation of how poor weather (rain I guess) can effect their very tight 25mins turnaround procedure. I found this statement somewhat amusing given that the acft had been prepositioned the night before and was on the tarmac. No turnaround was required and all pax were ready and raring to go.

The way I see it if we have to be on time so does the airline if it is not good enough for pax to be late for any reason then the same must surely apply to the airline.

Check in on return was problematic as the desk doesn't open till 2 hrs before departure so if you are early to bad. Connecting from regional areas makes this a pain as bus/train timetables suit a 30 min check in rather than 1 hr plus so you find yourself arriving much earlier than required and sitting around with baggage and kids and no ammenities. Too bad I hear you say well figure this if it is the leisure market they are catering to I see no leisure in the above.

All in all the few dollars I saved flying jet* and not VB was not worth it. Both however are substantially cheaper than QF on the same route so when next I fly it will be in the big red plane.

[Icarus2001]

Heavy rain will hold up loading the bags. No cargo containers means bags in the open, means wet bags. Also the baggage luvvies get wet. I have often been held up at the gate by thunderstorms in the vicinity of the airport as OH & S guidelines mean that the baggage luvvies have to scurry away to play cards just in case the lightning strikes the metal plate in their head. Lets just ignore the height of the tailplane, apron lights, terminal building, control tower etc. Sure there is a very slight chance of them being struck, so off they scurry.

[commander adama]

Campassion

sorry typo. While you are at it ask your captain or even yourself what the term scab means you ********.

The way I see it if we have to be on time so does the airline if it is not good enough for pax to be late for any reason then the same must surely apply to the airline.

200psi

When you can say something intelligent maybe you will get an answer. By the way isn't this a profesional pilot network? 200 psi I suggest you go to the airlines bulletin board and have your bitch there.

[Truth Seekers Int'nl]

Why do I call them Jetscab? You havent read any of my previous posts, or those of Pete or Proplever or fartsock? They are referred to as such because they are undermining the remainder of the industry. now that's cute Chuck me boy. qantas ditched these impulse pilots when jerry sold 'em down the drain. they are out on their own negotiating with dicko and now you want part of the action. get real pal..........oh, and have a look at qfs Australian airlines pay rates out of cairns before you start accusing people of "undermining the remainder of the industry." :mad: :yuk: :yuk:

[Johhny Utah]

As I understand it, Australian Airlines pilots retained the same salary & benefits as QF mainline pilots.:rolleyes:

Comparing them with Jet* terms & conditions is a bit of a stretch by any means of the imagination...:suspect:

[Southern handler]

yeah QF do have 15 minute cutoff, BUT this is to tight and needs to be another five or ten. But QF also have 35 minute turnorounds (or 40 for the 800's)

[Chuck Magutzup]

TSI? Not even close, mate. AA pilots are earning about the same as their QF 767 bretheren. Jetstar arent even in the same league.

They are simply rejects like adama who attempt to justify their own existence by putting everyone else down. And undercutting them. And crapping in all of our nests. Hang your heads in shame, Jetscab.

[Watchdog]

Magutsup,They are referred to as such because they are undermining the remainder of the industry. They have offered to carry out the same job as their compatriots for half of the pay.
You don't seem to have much idea then. Scabs are actually current employees who return to work in strike action.

I took a look at the QF pilots eba (on line).
Are you saying in your above quotation that they are doing the job for $68,000? (being 50%)?
Methinks you are just plucking numbers out of the sky...just like a politician
:D
Are you guys not all in the same union? If not then it's up to the individual union/business/individual to set prices. Eg. Aviall undercuts Hawkers regularily and vice-versa.
This is normal business practice. Businesses only drop the prices to make the sale/get the work.

[commander adama]

Watchdog

Don't bother you can not reason with an imbecile. I do not believe Chuck is part of the Qantas Group or even works as a professional pilot.

Hey Noddy! here's a definition of the term scab. Using the term Jetscab really does set your intellect and real age.

click here (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=scab)


A worker who refuses membership in a labor union.
An employee who works while others are on strike; a strikebreaker.
A person hired to replace a striking worker.

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

Well said Commanda. Since Chuck arrived on this forum we have had nothing but childish attempts to draw people into never ending arguments. To me chuck, you seem to be a pimply adolescent, sitting in a darkened room somewhere, just making it up as you go.

To be honest I think you would be amazed to find that professional pilots really couldnt give a rats.

Get mum to sew another patch on your nylon bomber jacket tiger. That will give you some of the " respek " that you obviously crave.

DM

[Keg]

Whilst we all throw sticks and stones at each other, we miss out on one fundamental issue.

That is, a united approach between both AIPA and the IPG when Jet* was first mooted could have seen a mutually beneficial outcome. That both organisations lacked visionaries to make this happen at the time is regrettable.

Secondly, our anger and dismay shouldn't be directed at each other but at the QF management who precipitated all this knowing exactly how the respective pilot groups would respond. The inane finger pointing and name calling from BOTH sides continues to show exactly how right that management were and how pilots continue to attack each other whilst letting the big picture monumentally escape them.

The point I DO agree with is that why are some pilots not acceptable to fly QF mainline but OK to fly for the QF group at cheaper rates. However, that question should be asked by those who didn't get into QF 'mainline' and continue to ply the skies for all the subsidiaries and used to push for further opportunities in mainline. If I'm 'OK' to fly for the group, WHY NOT for mainline. We go the 'group' hard on this then we ALL win. However, this constant shooting off at the mouth at each shows us all for the losers we actually are! :(

You guys may consider the 'back and forwad' on PPRUNE 'sport' but in the end, every time we 'go off' at each other on this forum, we're putting the gun against our foot and pulling the trigger.

Sorry, as a perpetual optimist and a Christian, I continue to strive and hope for a time when we'll work together without bagging each other out in a hateful way. I guess I should know better. Still, it won't stop me from telling you children to 'knock it off'.

[Chuck Magutzup]

Watchdog. As I understand it, yes, FO with Jetscab gets 70K. And normal business practice? I think not. Maybe some small discount. But undercutting by that amount? That move has affected us all as professional airline pilots. But then, you can't really call the Jetscab guys professional, because so called professionals wouldn't do that to one another.

Adama? You are a joke. YOU are a scab, if indeed you work for Jetscab. The definition is in the eye of the beholder. You are working for pittance, you have been rejected by better operators, and you are acceptable ONLY on the pay you are on. I will be very amused when QF mainline vote NO to the ridiculous agreement currently being put together by AIPA.

You have ruined our rumeneration in Australia as pilots. I have every reason to be bitter and cynical towards you. Keg hit the nail on the head, although far more politely than I. Why are you acceptable on one pay scale (extremely low), but not another (reasonable)? Thats because it reflects your immoral, unethical, unprofessional and unconscionable character.

[The Spin Doctor]

Chuck,
I am sure there are a lot of people outside of the QF group that will not only be amazed but incredibly happy if you guys vote NO.
so please go right ahead and vote that way, make us all happy, and while you are voting I'll get more ammo ready for your already shot feet

[LetsGoRated]

Chuck (aka proplever) "better operators".....Blaaaaaa haaa!!What would you know? Will you also be very amused when WE vote NO to the ridiculous agreement currently being put together by AIPA? Heartening to know you still dont realize that what is needed is a united front. Do you really believe mouthing off on Prune with all this "Scab" rubbish will improve Australian pilot conditions? Get real you @#%^ing brain dead maggot!!! You have no idea what a scab is.
Answer some simple questions prop (aka Chuck). Have National Jet pilots been "scabs" for the last 10 years??
Why dont you take your skirt off, and voice your convictions on QrewRoom?? Why dont you take it up with management?? Oh, I forgot, you're gallantry is limited to the keyboard. You're my hero Chucky Babe!! :ok:

[Chuck Magutzup]

You know, I've been thinking about your replies, LGR and spin. And you know how I've been saying all along that your salary at Jetscab is too little? In the case of you two brain surgeons, I actually think that you are paid way too much. I'm going to have a word with the short irish bloke, I'm sure he will agree! :ok: :ok:

[Pete Conrad]

Keg, politely put, but management don't care either way.