Mass Exodus at BACX

[skery1a]

Hi folks,
seems like they are soon going to have problems,crewing flights,pilots and cabin crew,leaving enmass!?
I believe they were offering redundency to cabin crew and pilots,only a few month ago.
Apparently they are allready short of dash8 pilots and will take on,F/O in summer.
Is there anybody out there who knows,how many pilots and CC are actually leaving?
Why is it,that always the good guys&guls are leaving and never the cr@py management!!!!

[Lucky Angel]

I am one of the pilots that left recently only because i wanted to leave the country. But i can tell you that not as many as you think are leaving the company. When I left there where rumours that 20 were leaving but it was actually only 6 of us.
However i left a few months ago so don't know what things are like now. I must admit though the company is loaded with amazingly fantastic people to work with and i enjoyed every minute of my 4 years there.

[Cornflake]

A lot of people ARE leaving, probably not as many as exaggerated on here. However, it is probably what our so-called management want. Redundancy of a kind was offered, but it was more the perception that from Fleet Management upwards, the Company

1. genuinely does not give a damn about the people who work for it.

2. is totally inept at the job of Company and people management, and therefore losing and wasting very significant sums of money.

3. is determined never to allow any meaningful transition from BACX to BA.

4. actually genuinely does not care if the Company goes under. Even our BA secondees are returning to mainline rather than risk being part of the so-called future.

'Tis true there are some great people, but there are so many in management and senior admin positions that life is pretty grim. The roster instability is quite awful, the main reason for staying regional (home most nights and a relistic working programme compensating for the lower money) has gone. On the Emb, we are now working like, er, dunno if one can say that anymore.....but BLOODY hard.

Company may change, but our detested chief of Flight Ops is perceived as having f#cked up so badly that BA don't want him back. All of this means people will leave, and continue to leave for better jobs, but not at any cost. If you need a job, then it's ok, but only as a stepping stone. If you have a choice, nearly any other operator inthe UK is better, certainly any other jet operator.

Your call.

[Tandemrotor]

Cornflake

Your point 4 cannot be correct, as there IS no risk to being part of the "so-called future" (of BACX?) for secondees. I think that is PRECISELY the point of your colleague's term 'golden parachute', isn't it? (in any case 6 captains out of 60 pilots, isn't exactly a stampede, and at least 2 are going to longhaul commands!)

Your point 3 is also highly debatable, as British Airways ALONE decide whom they 'invite' for interview; eg. 777, 747, or A320 type ratings. Since none of these types are currently on the BACX AOC, how can ANYONE currently create a 'meaningful transition from BACX to BA'? (And what about the reciprocal?)

The job market is just begining to open up, thanks in no small part to the predictable, cyclical nature of the industry. People WILL move up the 'perceived' career ladder, which will involve changing employer from time to time.

The good news is likely to be that most employers will have to try a little harder to retain those pilots that are seen as difficult to replace.

Enjoy.

[Hudson Bay]

Anybody know if they will be taking on direct entry commands? What about basing?

[Cornflake]

Tandemrotor, I have never read anyone's posts with as much despair and irritation as those of yourself and your BA ilk. You know perfectly well:

Don't misquote me - I never used the term stampede, and agree the exodus is not as great as rumoured - however wait for the market to continue opening up!

1. BA secondees ARE bidding back to mainline, not because of a threat to their actual safe future (golden parachutes as you say) but because the uncertain future of BACX as is means their current established regional lifestyle is at risk. If they decide to stay with BACX, there will always be a job for them back in mainline, but because of the retirement age issue, the jobs they perceive as being desirable will in the main no longer be attainable due their own, relatively reduced, seniority. (The relative reduction in this coming from people who might have been retiring, now staying on. At least, this is what three separate BA secondees have told me. The six of sixty does not however include all the people who have already left BACX this year, and who are currently working their notice, turning a redundancy bulge involving BALPA into a a hiring situation.

2. Ref progression to mainline. Again, it is not unusual for an airline like BA to be reasonably expected to allow some sort of career progression from a wholly owned subsidiary like BACX to its mainline operation. I know ALL the arguments relating to BA pilot's self interest, but even a partial observer might expect that the Company would give SOME sort of advantage to people it already employs to those from off the street. Even if it were progression to the bottom of your seniority list, thus not disadvantaging any of the current mainline bods. But no. Not just the Company, but also BA BALPA oppose this. They cite problems with City Flyer turboprop pilots, yet they managed to convert most I believe - who could object to being at least given a chance at a conversion , if one fails, one fails. To be excluded as a matter of policy is illogical, unjust, and demonstrates the sort of people running BA.

I agree with your last two paras however.

[Justbelowcap]

Only four of the regional guys have got successful bids back to mainline. One to the 777, one to 757 and two go to the 'bus.

[Tandemrotor]

Cornflake, please don't despair! (I've never been called an 'ilk' before!)

I accept that my view is partial (rather than impartial) I hope you will accept, your view is too. Such is the nature of this 'tribal' business.

I think that you have just conceded, that the very few mainline secondees bidding back to mainline, are not doing so, because it is too 'risky' to be part of the 'so-called future' (of BACX?)

Which WAS your original contention.

As far as the possible 'retirement' issue is concerned, again I'm not convinced this is a major factor in people's current decision making (though perhaps it should be)

To my limited knowledge, of the handful of people returning to mainline, 2 are taking longhual commands, and at least 2 are moving to the airbus, almost entirely for domestic reasons.

So I don't see how these people are in any way relevant to a thread entitled; "Mass exodus at BACX"

You also suggest that it is not 'unusual for a company like BA' to allow a progression from a wholly owned subsidiary, to its mainline operation.

This is an implication that I have heard before, and I think it is important to examine it. All I can say is if you could give a few examples of the companies who do this, and how their system works, it may well strengthen your case.

At the end of the day, if BA can't recruit the numbers of pilots it needs, it will be forced to consider ALL solutions.

Finally, I am at BACX (as a secondee) because I enjoy working with people, probably similar to yourself, from a small base, in the North of England.

I haven't really come across an overwhelming desire to abandon the company, though of course people are excited by the possibility, now emerging, of moving on to new equipment with new employers.

I have personally witnessed this situation (including claims of 'mass exodii') on at least 2 of the previous cyclical upturns.

Take it from me, the mass exodus only occurs when the company ceases trading. Not before.

Because companies become forced to pay the going rate to retain pilots with marketable experience.

As I said, enjoy the ride over the next couple of years, because as you know, what goes up, must come down.

Take care.

[Red Snake]

With mainline & Virgin opening the doors at last, it would be very surprising if BACX people didn't apply - many are likely to be well qualified. And let's face it, a bit of upward movement would do no harm at all after the last few years & there are plenty of wannabees still coming out of the system.

[Tandemrotor]

Seemed to be an interesting thread from 8 months ago. Any comments from those involved in the 'mass exodus'?

[rhythm method]

Unverified I must commence with...

At least 9 working notice at last call (in Manchester.. not really an exodus yet!) but 4 accepted to mainline and another 5 with offers on the table with competition. Personally I know of perhaps a dozen actively sending out CVs.

Total actual figures still a guess but would approximate in the region of 15 in Manchester, and who knows what elsewhere.

[heron]

At BHX of the folks I fly with and speak to in the crew room I can say a fair estimation would be that around 60% of the flight deck crews are actively seeking other jobs. However so far the escape rate is pretty low, could well become an exodus if all the applications turned into offers though!

PS happy new year all Knights of the Sky

[jaarrgh]

Well, I read this with great excitement! The question that all of us in the 'infinity' pool (TP) are staring at the screen asking is that with 15 left will we all/some get a call soon? Will those leaving the Jets be replaced by current BACX TP guys and girls? Are we on the brink of a New Dawn where I don't have the office phone diverted to me tonight?

[Captain Correlli]

I think a lot of people are waiting to see what the latest announcement will contain, if indeed it happens. The job could be a lot worse, but it is the continual lack of direction, focus and leadership that has caused the problem.

1. Lack of the first two, with continually changing strategic plans and tactics which vary on a daily basis have got everyone feeling very insecure.

2. The lack of leadership, and the magnitude of brown-nosing flattery from the inner circle combine to make most people realise that there is NO commitment to the troops, be they aircrew or groundcrew. The perception of self interest matched by a degree of dancing to the fiddle and pipes of Waterside, with no firm planning or leadership as far as our future is concerned combine to make people worry for their future.

So, many people, (including myself) are looking for a safe way out. All that really stops the flood is the lack of a perceived security with any other operator currently recruiting. However, the wise have applied to Monarch and Britannia / Thomsonfly, only the lack of required type rating is holding some people back. Already a perceived safe slot on the RJ is now in doubt, following the wording of TDL's missive about it being uncompetitive and unreliable. This is the same sort of message which preceded the closing of several bases, and the abandonment of several fleets.

Newbies and wannabes should be in no doubt that BACX is a good place for a first job for a couple of years, but is no longer a place for a career. Trouble is that a lot of us have a decade or so invested, and hence the jump is quite big. Most human individuals dislike change, and therefore sit tight hoping things will get better eventually, I hope that approach may be the best one for all our sakes, but I hope even more that my latest trolling for a job with BAL works out. :eek:

[EMB170]

this post was started more or less a year ago.
the question is, was there a mass exodus?
out of 550 or so pilots, what is a mass exodus?
what's the latest figure of pilots working their notice?
i know lots of wannabes,won't be happy about this ,but will there
be redundencies,with the publication of their new restructuring plans?
What's the future of Bacx,with Willi taking over big Ba, possible
management by out?


:confused:

[Riker]

Are they hiring onto the Avro? Where are the Avro bases?

What is the likelihood that a newhire could start on the Avro or are most going to the Dash and the E145?

[Tandemrotor]

Apparently BACX have indeed been recruiting directly on to the Avro. In a few months time, there will be RJ100s based at Inverness, Isle of Man, Edinburgh, and Birmingham.

[Tandemrotor]

bral

I'm sorry, but I'm having a little difficulty understanding your final paragraph. Could you explain please?

[rhythm method]

By my calculation, 92 pilots have left in approximately 14 months (by comparing seniority lists). In addition, there are 36 less pilots positions in the company due to the long list of changes, and with the announcement of the new 'Business Plan' there are likely to be quite a few less due to the disposal of the elite fleet :p .

I would say that in most people's book that isn't too far off a mass exodus, and I think it will be even greater given the recent announcements.

RM

[normal_nigel]

What they could do id get rid of all the BA secondees then promote some more Flying Club wannabees from the turbo fleets and complete the RJ transition from Airline to GA.

[brain fade]

This is a wee bit off topic, but does anybody know for sure whether the BA 'secondees' will be able to bid onto the RJ at these 'new' RJ bases (IOM, INV & EDI). Or are they off back to BA proper?
MTIA.

BF

[Bigscotdaddy]

Maybe I could throw in my 'tuppence worth' as a neutral party watching all this from the sidelines.

Last time I remember BA taking over another company was, I think, British Caledonian. I believe that all their Pilots were absorbed into BA mainline, and I know at least one (and I'm sure there are many more) who's a Capt on the 747 400, and who, incidentally, started off on Bandits.

So you don't have to necessarily go through the whole BA selection process to be able to operate the equipment.

Secondly, though I imagine this is all history now, any notion by BA or indeed BALPA, that because many Citiexpress crews have only operated TPs they wouldn't be suitable for heavy jets is little short of ludicrous. You only have to look at some of the most senior BA Capts (most probably reaching retirement age about now) who started on 'Budgies' or ATPs.

As someone said on a previous post - how can you tell until you've put them in the appropriate sim. If they don't hack it - then fair enough. But - where do most of the other Jet operators in the UK source their new aircrew? Exactly! Turbo - prop crews!

I know this has little to do with 'Exodus' but since the subject has been raised, it's worth the comment.

[Say again s l o w l y]

normal_nigel, what an arrogant post.
Turbo prop drivers are all "flying club wannabees" Really? When was the last time you flew anything totally manually, with steam driven instruments, no RNAV on a non-precision approach down to minima's in stinking weather in the middle of the night surrounded by high ground?

I'll wager that if you were put in that situation now, you'd stuff it up from start to finish. Some of the guy's I've worked with in that environment have to be amongst the best handling pilots in the industry and most likely a damn sight more experienced than you are. Button pushing it ain't.......

The air must be thin up there if you believe that the type of a/c you fly defines your competance as a pilot.

[Tandemrotor]

brain fade

There was a 'still born' attempt to 'recover' all secondees back to mainline, in blatant contravention of the agreement between BA and BACX. However (thanks to the timely intervention of BALPA reminding the parties of their committments) secondees are currently considering their supplementary bid options, which do include IOM, INV, and EDI.

As of course is only right since, for them, it is a 'base closure'.

Difficult to say how many will bid for these locations. Could be 1 or 2, could be 20. I certainly recall, it was very popular when it was previously a mainline base.

Does this help?

[maxy101]

My 2 pence worth on BACX pilots failing BA selection (solely based on PPrune threads...I have nothing to do with BA selection) is that perhaps potential applicants may not appreciate that piloting skills do not appear to be an important part of the job requirement in BA. It is all very well being the "ace of the base" in BACX or the RAF, however, that isn't what BA are looking for. I know it is a cliche, but all the buzzwords of teamwork, ability to get on with people (and bite your tongue ), CRM, "the BA Way",i.e a good knowledge of BA and its competition, go a long way to getting a job. We do employ people that aren't particularly good handlers, but we all meet the minimum standard. However, I would be interested to hear when the last hull loss occurred due to bad hands on flying. Nowadays, with airlines operating glass cockpit aircraft, and the team skills required to operate this type of equipment, accidents tend to occur because of a breakdown in these teamskills , rather than the equipment. It is merely an opinion, but judging by some of the posting on these BACX threads, might I suggest that some of the interview failures may be due to a perceived lack of these teamskills. IMHO, BA are red hot on these. Any BACX applicant with access to the BA Intranet would be doing themselves a big favour if they reviewed all this stuff (and learnt the buzzwords) if they want a job in BA mainline.

[brain fade]

Tandem.
Thanks for your reply.
I'm jolly glad it's not my job to sort this one out, but to a casual observer it looks a lot like there will not be enough seats to go round!
1. BACX must find new seats for all the ATP crews at GLA (except a few who'll retire probably). Base closure I suppose for these guys.
2. Also have to find seats for the ex 146 folk, must be a few of these. Most will surely plan to go on the RJ certainly at IOM & INV (unless the 'secondees' want in here too!)
3. Do something about the EDI -8 crews who lose their only a/c, guess it's base closure for them too!

The easy bit may be crewing the 4 Rj's at EDI, but if a shedload of Mainline secondees are to have these jobs, then a lot of 'our' chaps may have no job!

Now I am BACX and so plainly biased, but I think that as the 'secondees' have somewhere nice to go, 'mainline', maybe it's about time they went there. Either that or come on into CX and take our T's & C's.
Thats assuming they can pass our selection!
:rolleyes:

[unwiseowl]

So BACX pilots are possibly going to become unemployed because BA pilots don't want to go back to BA? As an impartial outsider, my thoughts are:
1, How selfish of the BA pilots;
2, Why are BALPA not leaning on the BA pilots to do the decent thing?

[Human Factor]

BALPA did the decent thing in the first place and kept positions available in the regions for mainline pilots, which otherwise would have been taken by BACX pilots on inferior terms who would be helping to drive down terms and conditions for the rest of us.

My answer, put the BACX guys on the mainline seniority list as per CityFlyer (with appropriate GF rights). This will allow them to bid onto mainline fleets and those of us who want to fly in the regions to do so without any hassle.

You could even call the new operation British Airways Regional. :E

[brain fade]

Human Factor.
I think you're correct, that would be one way of solving the problem. However would that mean that we 'lesser beings' would be admitted to mainline BA? Including those who've already 'failed' BA mainline transfer-in selection? You are correct for sure in one respect which is that a precedent was set when CityFlyer was absorbed.

Only other alternatives I can think of would be:

1. to add another aircraft type to BACX to absorb the surplus
pilots.
2. Lay some people off
3. Dramatically overcrew the existing a/c
4. Send the secondees back to mainline.
5. Something really clever from management which will do a sort
of 'Abracadabra' and 'POOF!' .....we all live happily ever after:ok:

Like I said. Glad it's not me who has to fix it. Here's hoping it ends well.

[Tandemrotor]

Hi BF, bral etc.

I really don't want this thread to deteriorate into a slagging match, (though undoubtedly it will) and I appreciate your considered comments.

All I would say is this: 18 months ago there were approximately 60 secondees, this has already reduced to 50, and this year alone (BEFORE the new business plan!) a further 6 had successful bids back to LHR. This represents, in a very short time, a cut in secondee numbers of over 25%. ALL REPLACED BY BACX PILOTS!

In other words, there has already been a considerable reduction in the NUMBER of secondees, AND THEIR PROPORTION, from the original agreement, with no accompanying reduction in the number of RJs.

That is not to say the secondees are unconcerned for our colleagues. We are. However, forgive us for turning a deaf ear to what could possibly be another shout of "wolf"!

[rhythm method]

Human Factor's suggestion would be the most commonsense solution to the problem... mainline guys who want to stay in the regions can do so. Displaced BACX pilots able to bid onto mainline fleets. However, there is one major reason that it wouldn't be adopted... because it is the correct commonsense solution!

We are facing some very testing times ahead in BACX. Many of us are facing another enforced fleet and/or base move. The genius who came up with this latest masterplan obviously doesn't care that many families, already uprooted from previous 'plans', will face even more problems. The fact is that they really don't care at all about the human aspect to these never-ending changes. Furthermore, crews who are displaced will likely also have enforced seat changes due to the ever dwindling number of vacancies within BACX. Their pay will only be fully protected for one year, then it rapidly reverts to first officers salary, while the crew will probably have added hardship of commuting costs if they elect not to further disrupt their families lives.

Seconded BA pilots surely have a duty to the rest of the pilot community at BACX. It is in their interests to actively lobby BACC to come up with a solution to this unending shambles. Meanwhile, endless CVs are winging their way to all and sundry... perhaps this was the intention of the latest 'management plan'.

(edited to add) Tandem, I don't quite understand how this could be shouting 'wolf'. Also, I don't expect it to degenerate into a slanging match.. as I said, (or implied) we are ALL affected by this new plan; it's up to us to become more vocal as a joint community to force a more acceptable solution.

RM

[brain fade]

Tandem
All I'm saying is this, Barring my 'POOF' theory above:
There ain't room for all of us.

You guys have the softest safety net. So...................

[Pin Head]

Common senortiy list has got to be the best option. If I take redunancy now and then was successful in applying to mainline in 6 months then who is £5000 down in cash, BACX. Also remeber that unless management really turn it around then the business will continue to shrink. Who's next DHC8 then the 145 then the Company.

Not only Michael Palin went full circle!

[Wonwing Lo]

Gleetings, honoulable gentlemen. May i point out that secondee who is at Manchestah may not wish to go anywhere else in regions. So go back London. Agleement not allow new bids from BA, ah, so, reduction in numbahs.

[brain fade]

I hope you are collect. o slitty eyed one! Wot you say Tandem?
Won wing talking borrocks or what?

['round midnight]

Tandem,

I've been reading your contributions for years now, and what has become abundantly apparent is that you labour under one (false) premise only, that is: BA pilots are owed a job for life.

BACX' business plan, good or bad, represents that company's existing economic reality. You don't have any right to be exempt from its consequences. OK, you were in the regions with BAR, and you wanted to stay in BHX, fine. Now if your aircraft or region disappears, what gives you the right to claim a stake in another region (in which you have no ties), especially since you could move back to mainline?

You want two options left open to you and, in the process, are quite happy to remove all options from your colleagues at BACX.

Tell me, who told you you couldn't ever be made redundant?
BA? I doubt it.

'round midnight

[Capt Pit Bull]

Tell me, who told you you couldn't ever be made redundant?

Well, never say never etc.

However, in my experience, one point that BA always play up (vis a vis are they a good employer or not) is never having made any involuntary redundancies during restructuring.

Make of that what you will.

CPB

[Tandemrotor]

'round

Actually, I labour under no such illusion. I confess to being fortunate in this game. I have never been made redundant, but then again perhaps it's not just luck. Perhaps I have been careful in choosing my 3 employers!

You said:

"Now if your aircraft or region disappears, what gives you the right to claim a stake in another region"

But as you know, neither 'disappeared' did they?

They were simply given to another part of the organisation owned by my employer! And the secondees were part of the agreement that allowed that to happen.

Does this help?

And could you just tell me what 'options' precisely. I want 'removed' from my colleagues at BACX?

[145qrh]

"And the secondees were part of the agreement that allowed that to happen."

How gracious of you to let your employer decide what is best for the company that you are employed by to make, I am glad you are in charge , so I am sure is your employer.

Maybe you should look up the employee/employer thingy a bit .

Tail, dog ,wagging, re-arrange and make a well known phrase or saying....

Balpa , maybe they should get back to counting paper clips in head office and let BA get on with managing the company.

Same old story...... a few union do gooders ( god bless them) are so good at management that they control billions of pounds worth of business rather than try to feather their own nest..........doh, spot the deliberate sarcasm.



Wait for it ..... BAR were the only bit of BA making money, kept the airline afloat for years they did, there WERE our jobs they were , we want ,we want sounds a bit like my 3 yr old

[4468]

Let's try to get this discussion back on thread shall we. The title is "Mass Exodus at BACX".Suggesting people are leaving in droves? - Correct?

Indeed, only a week ago rhythm method told us; "By my calculation, 92 pilots have left in approximately 14 months".This sounds like a company with a pretty high turnover of pilots, possibly confirmed by the numbers currently working their notice?

So the question is this: Is the suggested return of mainline secondees to LHR:

A) A short term fix to avoid GENUINE redundancies?

Or is it more simply:

B) An 'opportunity' to fulfil a long term aspiration to wriggle out of an agreement? (an aspiration illustrated admirably by most BACX posters on pprune!)

An agreement which MUST have suited BACX 3 years ago, since they signed up to it (secondees and all!)The answer to that question will influence the response to the following:

"Seconded BA pilots surely have a duty to the rest of the pilot community at BACX. It is in their interests to actively lobby BACC to come up with a solution to this unending shambles."

By the way: Bearing in mind the management of BACX MUST have known the impact of this reorganisation at least 2-3 months ago, can anybody tell me;

when did BACX cease recruitment?

PS. I'm not even a seconded pilot, but mine WAS one of the 160 jobs handed to BACX, SOME of whose pilots then revelled in the fact that they could do the job sooooooo much cheaper than us! As has been said before, Those jobs DID NOT just disappear, they were sold to the lowest bidder!

Which probably brings us full circle, back to the title of this thread!

[spanner the cat]

The recruitment is (predictably) F/O's. Recent twist is direct recruitment of low houred pilots direct onto the Jungle jet or RJ.

Why is this information relevant?

The majority of leavers are jet F/O's. The company is holding Dash 8 F/O's to their two year initial engagement freezes, thereby saving on double training costs. Also keeping those pilots on their lower salary scale :(

Therefore there are plenty of jet F/O vacancies to be filled. Hence F/O recruitment to the jet.

There aren't many Captains leaving; Some Dash 8 Captains, but no jet skippers. The pressure on vacancies internally is a lack of command seats. Secondees occupy command slots. If a secondee is able to achieve a command in LON then surely it isn't too much to ask that they return to mainline to take up that slot? The alternative means that there is every prospect of demotions AND enforced moves. A lot of the displaced pilots are very senior on the BACX list.

Why not place BACX pilots on the bottom of the master seniority list as suggested by Human Factors? A filter could be placed onto bids relating to satisfactory performance in the last two LPC/OPC sim sessions. If BACX does have a major incident do you really think that the crew and aircraft won't be labelled as "BA"?

Hasta la Pasta

[Pin Head]

Well said spanner, common sense at last. Also remember that BACX get auditored by BA every year and it was only two years ago that we had the BA cadets!

[4468]

So have we decided yet?

Is it "Mass Exodus" as described by rhythm method less than a month ago:

"I would say that in most people's book that isn't too far off a mass exodus, and I think it will be even greater given the recent announcements."

Or was rm well wide of the mark?

[rhythm method]

Why don't you ask that question of the service industry which is benefitting most from BACX's current plight.. the local pubs that are hosting leaving parties every week (quite often 2 per week at Manchester alone!).

:}

[4468]

So it IS a "Mass Exodus" then?

NO redundancies?

[madmax100]

Mass Exodus............???????

[HZ123]

As mainline BA excuse me for asking the question. If indeed 101 pilots are working there notice surely this must present operational problems very shortly and if so how can such issues be dealt with. I apologise unreservedly for the mess that BA has made from the orginal two outfits, but then we do seem to have a skill in this field. At LHR its now spend, spend, spend as a result of last year we are now up to our knecks with outside consultants and the mass ranks of managers that will make T5 a great sucess. Good Luck ?

[madmax100]

Definately a mass exodus.......to date 151 pilots have left BACX since Jan 2005!!!

That does not include the 3 pilots who resigned during their initial conversion courses.

[Beerbelly]

The most interesting thing is that the leavers are now including a larger and larger proportion of pretty senior guys who were only staying because of their seniority and the lower positions available in other, albeit much better airlines. This has now changed, mainly thanks to the totally insane policies of Feelan and the relocations and ongoing base/fleet changes.

[Captain Correlli]

Beerbelly - bear in mind that Hutchings/Evans MUCH prefer to see experienced guys leave. It reduces costs a lot more quickly than just watching FOs leave. As for experience to fly the line - who needs that?:uhoh: I see our Command experience requirements being degraded all the time, but maybe when sufficienty bodies have left, the rest of us will be drawn into mainline - after all, we've got the uniforms now, its only a matter of time!

[macf]

chaps and chapesses 166 since January I think Exodus is a good word!!!!!!!

[Riker]

Where are the departing pilots going - Ryan, Easy, TFly, etc.? Are they well received and finding good opportunities? Any examples of success stories at finding other good positions?

[Barber's Pole Bob]

Plenty off to BA Mainline -- out the frying pan ...

Plenty of MAN F/O's just moving across the road to GB though...

[ShortfinalFred]

Well what-ever-your-number-is qrh, you so obviously belong to the New Victorian Mill Owner school of employee relations that it makes me feel faintly sick to read your "contribution".

Isn't it great that the great God of the Market you serve so assiduously is working hard and proving your "let them eat dust" mantra to be as futile and outmoded as it sounds? Good luck to all at or from BACX in you new careers. You sure dont need qrh to lecture you on "market economics"!

[Aerial Anarchist]

A hopeless airline. A shame really as Brymon was a fine operation, not so the other lot.

- make sure you all wear your hat's on the way back to the staff carpark boys. All very important.

[hec7or]

"Where are the departing pilots going - Ryan, Easy, TFly, etc.? Are they well received and finding good opportunities? Any examples of success stories at finding other good positions?"

Line trained one or two, very well received, very happy with new employment.

Nice of you to ask.