Nice (or Crazy) Stunt

[MajorMadMax]

We all appreciate good flying....or gutsy flying...not sure which this is the first, second, or both!

http://www.haute-voltige.com/videos/kairys.mpe

Cheers! M2

The pilot is Jurgis Kairys, and his web site is http://www.jkairys.com/, and his flying is...

http://www.jkairys.com/common/images/su26a.jpg

...both!

Cheers! M2

[Briney]

Glad to see that none of those pesky crowd safety issues apply to this consumate professional.

[Tourist]

What Crowd you prat!

[Briney]

If you'd taken the time to download the video and watched it you'd see the huge crowd as he inverts (rolling towards the crowd lining the river) and flies underneath the crowd on top of the bridge while watched by a crowd on the other side of the river - that crowd.

PS I understand the crowd was estimated at 200,000

[Jeep]

What a superb feat of flying - <applause>

[John Farley]

Well said Briney

[Megaton]

I wonder if Synchro have seen this?

[Tourist]

Ok, suck back.
Sorry hadnt seen the vid
Still, nice flying!

[soddim]

Is this good judgement or a fine example of over-cooking it and getting away with it?

If it really can be judged that finely then I am truly full of admiration.

[Chris Kebab]

Well in my opinion I think he is a lunatic.

However it is very impressive but I wouldn't want himover my back garden.

[witchdoctor]

What a pussy!

I did that and managed to pull out 3 15lb trout and a 25lb pike to boot! With my bare hands!!

I don't see any fish in this sequence. Bloody amateur.:}

[Feck]

Well I think he's a bally hero. Of course, if he'd crashed 'twould be a different story. But then the crowd weren't there to watch the fishing.

[J.A.F.O.]

I should think the number of times that you can get away with that - even if you are incredibly lucky - is one.

Surely, in this day and age, there is treatment available for people like this. Have we not moved on from the Victorian freak shows where people paid a penny to be shocked and thrilled by those who were in reality sick and ill. The crowd are no better than the visitors at Bedlam.

But, f##k me, it's good. :ok:

[orionsbelt]

I have great admiration for all you Fast Jet types who fly daily at 420-600 knots down to 100ft or less when it really matters and do it every day safely day after day even when being shot at. Likewise experts like Brian Lecomber and his mates past and present who rehearse and practice fantastic displays in a safe and professional manner. Watching Brian practice inverted engine failures, at low level after take off was a sight to see.
The things you guys do is great flying, not that sort of thing.

.
…
.

[Tourist]

Look the guy up on google, that was one of ten bridges he did on that flight, and he is currently running for president of lithuania! What a guy!

[Reichman]

That is FANTASTIC flying. I do wish people would stop being so self righteous and "sensible". This is the stuff we need to see at airshows, not a Harrier sitting in the hover for 20 minutes boring the pants off/deafening everyone.

Reichman

[soddim]

If minima like these were permitted at airshows there would be enough accidents in the first season to close all airshows to the public.

[Reichman]

Minima like that ARE permitted at airshows. There's not much point in doing in a Spitfire though. A highly manoeuvrable aerobatic aircraft should be shown off to its and the pilots limits. Formula 1 racing would be a lot safer if the cars stuck to the national speed limit. It wouldn't be very exciting though.

Two recent airshow accidents were:

Harrier, lowestoft - Whoops wrong lever.

F16, Mountain Home - Whoops wrong altimeter setting.

Reichman

[Briney]

How about Lviv - Whoops wrong crowd line?

[Reichman]

Er - No crowd line.

[Fox3snapshot]

Having just witnessed a chapter of the world aerobatic championships in AL AIN (United Arab Emirates) I don't believe there is anything "lucky " or unplanned about this stunt. Pilots from the same family of specialists put on an unbelievable display of skill on a daily basis. On the completion of the pilots display there was the obligitory beat up in front of the crowd (safely orientated) which was absolutely incredible....once again nothing "Jack Ass" about it, pure flying skill.

Yippee Ki Yi Yay!
:ok:

[MajorMadMax]

Fox3

Gotta concur, this wasn't a stupid stunt but one by a highly skilled pilot in an aircraft that is designed to do so.

by the way, Jurgis was suppose to be at this championships (according to an earlier schedule)...by chance did you get to see him fly?

Cheers! M2

p.s. Here's another great pic, and as good as he is, I still think this guy is nuts!

http://www.jkairys.com/top1.jpg

[Runaway Gun]

Faaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrk that.
I think I'd be adding to the smoke if I was sitting in the cockpit with him.
I guess he hasn't made any mistakes...yet.

[MrBernoulli]

Mad as a "£$%&*! hatter!!!!!!!!

[Head to Earth]

Reichman,

Exactly what minima are you talking about? I think you might need to review the limits which pilots at British airshows have to work to. Methinks he might not get away with it for long if he pulled a stunt like that in the UK. Ultra impressive stuff though, I'm sure a few more of us wouldn't mind having a go but rules is rules and they are there for public safety never mind the pilots.

[Pilgrim101]

Just brilliant ! I'm sure he meant to do just what he did ;) , so he is probably quite skilled at handling a lunatic aeroplane through such manoeuvres :}

The difference between genius and insanity ?


Orionsbelt

Great idea, my mates and I will liven up the next airshow in the UK by shooting at the Cap or Extra - that should liven things up a bit :p

[Feck]

Reichman, if you don't want to see a Harrier, don't go to RIAT. And if you have to go to RIAT, keep an eye out for Xavier de Lapparent who is on a par with Kairys. Without the bridges.

Whilst the front row of the crowd would appreciate a 1ft inverted flypast, and the 2nd row would know that something funky had just happened but wouldn't know what, the 3rd to 20th rows would be oblivious.

That and the obvious carnage risk is why we have a 30ft min height. Not 1 foot.

[Reichman]

Head to Earth & ****

Minimum display heights can be as low as the CAA are prepared to allow. I believe Denny Dobson's (Extra 300) is 0'. My display auth allows me down to 100'. I personally don't feel the need to go below that. However, pilots that do limbo flying (I've done that in the past) obviously need a lower min height.

There is not likely to be "carnage" caused by someone flying inverted at 0' down a runway or the correct distance from the crowd line. If the pilot messes up the only person who will be hurt is the pilot. If they think they have the skill and judgement to carry out a manoeuvre like that, let's all see it.

As for the Harrier display: It's just a personal thing. I find it boring. But I know there are still a few 9 year olds who are fascinated by it. Surely there must be health and safety issues with all that noise. ;)

However, I will try and get the display slot just before the Harrier this year so at least I can be airborne when it's doing its display. Failing that I'll find a beer tent further away from the crowd line.

Reichman:ok:

[soddim]

Reichman, if you seriously think that the photo posted at the start of this thread depicts the sort of flying that either is or should be allowed at UK airshows I hope you don't try to copy it.

Stick to your 100ft mate.

I agree it is good to look at but the pilot who says he can judge it to those limits is either out of this world or about to be.

[UNCTUOUS]

Back in my formative years I used to do lots of low-level aeros (S/E jet, big radials, a few multis, gliders, a chopper). I can clearly recall that my youthful preoccupation was with the fear of stuffing it up and looking silly, so I used to over-practice. Anytime I wasn't otherwise committed, I'd have ATC give me a block of airspace and I'd go run it outa fuel and smoke. Of course I had a few frights but mostly they were with the checker (CFI or similar) who'd have to check you (under the regs) before you could bring a new display back over the base, start the season etc. And normally that fright was "him" showing you how he'd do it, or him getting on the controls in the other seat because he didn't like what you were doing, where it was suddenly going. It only takes a moment to end up in the sheit. Tailsliding in your smoke looks good - but if you're suddenly distracted trying to pitch forward to regain the true vertical and leave the board out, back-flip and suddenly find yourself in a full-blown inverted spin at 2000ft, it then takes a lot of panache. Panache? Yes, to both make it look intentional (crisply half rolling back to your display line on regaining the downwards vertical) and extricate yourself without frightening all concerned. It's very important not to freeze up or try and "force" the airplane to do something - just keep flying it. That's very difficult under conditions of ground-rush....and even moreso when the other seat is mumbling about ejection. But I will always recall the outward "scatter of ants" below (to the four points of the compass) as we regained the downward vertical and focused on the final problem of rolling then pitching out of the groundrush on track for the next manoeuvre (whilst coping with the mumblefuk from the other seat).

You develop phobias. Initially I found it very hard to do a noddy stall turn below 1200ft (in fact, initially even to stall turn at low-level). I had a total brain-block with the hesitation garbage slow-roll because the nose would always drop and I'd dish out the last half, sometimes below the level of the TWR at the satellite airfield where I used to practise. I dished out and bugged out again and again until I tumbled to the solution. Eventually I worked out the trick to it, but not before getting an interview with a three-star for a fumbled one over the base (that disappeared from his line-of-sight behind a hangar).

But the greatest threat by far was the accomplished fellow aerobaticist who was always ready to offer constructive criticism and advice. I always listened to them politely but, unlike some, never took any of their advice for gospel (or to my recollection, applied it). One lesson stuck forever - and I wasn't in that airplane. His last minute advice (rudder use in an inverted derry) was taken very literally by another chap the next year and that fellow nearly bought the fuel farm. A closer run thing (in the heavy judder) I never hope to see (or hear) again. It's a horrible sound to hear that desperate pull progress from buzz to buffet to judder as you clearly identify that his rolling pull-out has gone beyond just being marginal. In fact he was so shook up that he both blamed his advisor bitterly and bugged out of his season. But at the end of the day it's always up to you (and down to you). You're normally both self-taught and self-disciplined. Apart from the 3-star's bleat, I never had anyone complain to me on safety grounds. That's because you have to always run it on rails and keep it looking polished. If the guy running the display won't accept at briefing that you have to run in from crowd left and not crowd right because the big radial will only safely stall turn to the right and you don't want to change your display routine without practising it, then take your ball and go home.

But getting back to what this chap's doing in his little SU. I've done some formation aeros and a little mirror and it's not all that difficult. But what he's doing here? it really does seem like practising dying. I'd only do it (and not to HIS limits) if someone offered me a lot of money. This guy's doing it for other (egomaniacal) reasons. Those reasons probably would also preclude him running for political office. When I did display flying, it was because I was asked (and I'd never put my name down) and also because in the MIL environment it never pays a career officer to devolunteer from a difficult task. When I did it thereafter, it was because I was asked on the grounds that my bosses knew that I could do it and wouldn't give them any grief.

The only advice that I'd ever proffer to anybody setting out to display is NOT to do it unless you've many hours on type and to be very very physically fit. Work out a fine weather display using the vertical as impressively as possible - but stay away from limiting pull-throughs (always float it over the top). Also practise a tight rolling display. And keep reminding yourself of your own limits. After a while you will know exactly what they are. They will be nothing to do with the airplane's limits and everything to do with staying a step ahead of developments. Finally don't forget to invert the airplanebeforehand - and give it a bit of a shove. You'll always be surprised with what you pick out of the canopy.

UNC

[Reichman]

Dear soddim,

This sort of flying is allowed at a UK airshow (excluding the crowd). Whilst I don't agree with the close proximity of the crowd in this paricular instance I fail to see the harm in letting a very accomplished pilot show off his skills. If he can demonstrate to a CAA Display Evaluator that he can fly under a piece of string upside down (and it's not a new trick) then what's the problem?

I also don't recall saying that I wanted copy him in my previous posts. I accept that there are pilots with far more skill than me. They can fly to their limits, I'll fly to mine.

UNCTUOUS

I would have thought that doing it for money was far more dangerous than doing for pure pleasure/ego. There's always the temptation to push it that little bit further when money is involved.

Reichman

[cyrus]

I would hazard a guess that this sort of flying might be allowed at a UK airshow - but only once. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that as soon as it was witnessed it would be banned and quite right too.

CAA care to comment?

[soddim]

Reichman, do let me know at which UK airshow one can see that sort of flying (inverted, fin one to two feet from disaster) so that I can avoid it.

In my time I have displayed a number of interesting aircraft and seen some outstanding displays but I have never seen a public demonstration of luck-pushing as bad as that.

[Reichman]

soddim & cyrus

Ok, whats the big deal here? Is it because he's really low or that he's upside down? Whats the difference from this bloke being upside down 3ft off the water/ground or one of the Blue Angels being 3ft above his mate in a mirror formation. I'll save you the bother of a reply - none. Apart from the ground aint moving. A few points:

1. You would be able to see that sort of flying at any UK airshow if the pilot had a CAA DA to do it.

2. Reference "one to two feet from disaster". It's not called "disaster" it's called "water". It's quite safe, I swim in it all the time.

3. The CAA gave permission to fly a Spitfire under a bridge for a TV film. I had permission to fly a vintage jet fighter down to 0ft for a TV film.

4. A Sukhoi/Extra/Cap flies just as well upside down as right way up due to it's symmetrical wing section.

5. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you're right to ban it. I personally think that hovering in a single engined jet is very dangerous to the pilot. However, I wouldn't like to see it banned on safety grounds - perhaps boredom though.

6. Lighten up

Enjoy the shows and if they're getting to scary for you just go to the beer tent. I'll be along during the Harrier display.

Reichman

[Tourist]

Just a personal opinion, but I can think of nobody worse to do displays than someone who doesnt want to be there. In my experience the best at it (and by it I mean both flying and aeros) have been those who love it.
I'll happily watch someone risk his own life for my entertainment, and he is obviously happy to risk it.
I fail to see the problem.
Incidentally, when was the last time 250000 people turned out to see a single a/c perform in this country? Perhaps the crowds dont mind a bit of risk to themselves. I know that I would have gone to sit on the banks if he did the Thames, and would be interested to see how many other ppruners would stay away if a similar opportunity presented itself in this country.:D

[soddim]

OK Reichman, I've taken the bait - what part of the effect of hitting the water upside down do you not understand? You say the aircraft flies just as well inverted but look at the angle of attack and try to visualise what the effect of the fin striking the water would be. The AOA reduces so there is no longer as much lift - less lift equals more fin in the water - more fin in the water equals less angle of attack. You might swim in it but the aircraft cannot.

As for your suggestion to lighten up, my advice to you as one who has survived the display circuit is get serious. That's the way to be professional.

As for the ghouls who would flock to see a pilot risk his life - get a life of your own.

[Reichman]

Well soddim, seeing as you're rising to the bait.....

A little history lesson. In the years after WWII when the World Aerobatic Championships were in their infancy a certain Count Consatantin Cantacuzino, an ex Romanian Air Force ace, would thrill the crowds at airshows with his legendary inverted fly pasts a few feet above the ground in his Bucker Jungmeister (Flown one? They're lovely). His best trick though was to invert over water and dip the fin in the water to create a wake for all the crowd to see. There is a photo of him doing it in the sea off (I think) Monaco. His contemporary at the time was one Jose Luis Aresti (yes him of the Aresti aerobatic short hand) who also did the inverted low pass routine. Both of these gents had another party trick which was to bring the aircraft in to land, touch the mainwheels, flick roll and then land again. They thrilled thousands. OK, so one day Cantacuzino got it wrong, hit the fin on the ground, crashed and completely destroyed his airacraft. But, being the professional that he was, he immediately got into another one and performed the trick flawlessly. What a trouper!

Would you stand in front of a group of your fellow pilots and denounce Cantacuzino (43 confirmed kills) and Aresti (father of modern day aerobatics) as "luck pushing"?

I have seen the landing flick roll performed in a Jungmeister in the mid 90's. Breathtaking to watch.

As for fins in water. The drag caused is negligable. What do you think happens when you dip the wheels in? If you think the whole thing tips on it's nose you'd be wrong. Several Swordfish and Pawnee pilots will testify. Do you have a pathalogical fear of water?

Thanks for the advice on display flying. I'll fly with a frown this season. :(

Reichman

[Fox3snapshot]

OK, here's the thing..."ice cream lickers' go to see this sorta stuff, Soddim stick to the straight and level 200'AGL flybys and yes you will survive the display circuit....but I won't pay 20 Quid to go and see what I can see in the circuit area at any GA airfield.

Get amongst it!

:ok:

[soddim]

Reichman, if dipping your fin in the water and getting away with it is not luck pushing then I don't know what is. Whilst I would certainly not wish to upset you over your choice of hero, he did crash and wreck his aircraft through his own recklessness.

I joined the RAF mainly because of people like Douglas Bader who also crashed through his own recklessness so at least we have that in common. However, in my time on the display circuit in WW2 fighters I learned that the real enthusiasts appreciate more the displays where skill is shown either individually or collectively and it is not necessary to be dangerous. They really appreciate the displays by historic aircraft but they do not like to see them crash. Now I'll grant you that the picture in question shows a pilot who is obviously displaying skill but he would be displaying just the same skill if he did it at a safe height and more people in the crowd would be able to see him.

Perhaps we will have to agree that our tastes differ and if I ever see you in the beer tent during the Harrier display I would be happy to discuss it further - I don't much like the heavy metal displays either.

Fox3Snapshot, if you can't do better than a snapshot, don't post your claim.

soddim

[Reichman]

soddim,

I agree. The display should bring out the best of the aircraft. I certainly wouldn't want to see a Spitfire or Mustang flown like this. Just give me lots of noise and wing overs. However, I wouldn't want to see a Sukhoi flown like a Spitfire.

Happy flying

Reichman