Plans for only SK or BU in Norway

[Flap Sup]

http://www.boarding.no/art.asp?id=10693

Article in norwegian about SAS planning to let one of the brands in Norway go, either SK or BU. Interesting, regarding the discussion we had earlier, that SAS management tries to get rid of the expensier operator if two from the same consortuim operated wing to wing.

The two year guarantee about keeping the BU brand must be running out now, isn't it? (though not claiming that it will be the BU brand leaving)

Thoughts?

/FS

[pilot dude]

I don't know about the difference in pay from SAS and BU but my guess is that SAS pays more so it would be smarter to keep BU than SAS in norway.

PD

[pharmair]

They can paint the airplanes any way they like, but the probable solution in the cockpit is that the BU pilots will be integrated into the SAS senioritylist, and share cockpits with their former "enemies". It will be messy, but when the dust settles it will be better for all of us.

With Bu/SAS as one operator with the lower costbase that follows, Norwegian will have to work their asses off to keep up, especially when tv and the newspapers finally grow tired of giving them free advertising....:yuk:

[pharmair]

RTO,

something close to that philosophy was used when LIN was bought, and I believe nobody is too keen on repeating that "experiment".

I trust our pilot union representatives to reach a solution we can all live with, even if there will be some unhappy people in both camps afterwards.

An integration will only be successful if we can join forces against our competitors, instead of spending time on fistfights in the cockpit and the crewroom...;)

[pharmair]

RTO,

I've only been with SC and later Airline for seven years, but I have yet to hear of or witness any of the "discrimination" against XLIN-pilots that you claim.

On the contrary, most of them seem to blend in just fine...

Perhaps those that feel discriminated against need to take a long look in the mirror and consider if their own attitude could be part of the problem...:suspect:

[pharmair]

RTO,

maybe I don't pay enough attention, but what you're talking about is news to me. :confused:

Would you care to elaborate on which uniform items we're talking about, so that I can take a closer look next time I'm at ARN?

[Ramrise]

RTO,

as far as I know nobody was issued a different uniform. Rumour has it that some ex lin guys who were bumped to first officer positions, kept their four stripe shirts/jackets in order to hang on to that sharp captain look. I don't know precisely, what I do know is that they were not discriminated against and all the ex lin guys I have met were very nice fellows who did a good job. While I am sure that some still harbour ill feelings I think that the vast majority of the lin pilots are satisfied with their career progression. They make more money( I think), fly a far larger route structure and get to fly bigger planes as well.

All right, who's gonna' jump down my throat??

[F28Classic]

RTO. "PinPointed" so nicely. Yes I know old ExLIN guys. Not frends of a frend ( thats is a frend whos father used to fly 67. in sas).

And merger were not (understand!!! WERE NOT ORANIZED SMOOTHLY) and everybody are not happy even they make living.

And hopefully sk are to out of norweigian airspace. Knowing that most of the knowledge and info lies in braathens shoulders.
And it would be logic also. every specialsit makes own territory. SK makes that the longhaul and everybody else makes the local market

[pharmair]

F28 Classic,

"most of the knowledge and info lies on Braathens shoulders"

What a load of crap!

I don't have anything bad to say abour the BU pilots, but you are "forgetting" that SK has been operating in the northernmost part of Norway for around 50 years, until our current management handed those routes to BU.

Oh, and by the way, where do you think BU get their all their charts from? It ain't Blue1, that's for sure...

It's interesting to see how all of this "we love to hate you" mentality comes crawling out of the woodwork every time SAS is mentioned, spiced up with a few "true" stories about the odd employee with a chip on his shoulder.


RTO,

you are absolutely correct about the gold. vs. the silver wing. As a matter of fact, our internal "code" states that I can order a pilot with a silver wing to polish my shoes anytime, since my wing is golden....

Get a :mad: life!!


And last but not least; BU may possibly take over the domestic routes in Norway next winter, but if you check in the cockpit, you will probably see at least one gal or guy from "the most overpaid, underworked" group of pilots in Scandinavia.:ok:

[Flap Sup]

Pharmair,

are you implying that sas pilots will fly on braathens aircraft? Is it just an assumption or any plans not yet revealed from thje mother ship? Or did I understand your post wrong, did you say that braathesn pilots are overpaid?

The situation is a delicate one. Sas is under a lot of financial pressure, they have to use the cheaper operator on specific routes to satisfy their shareholders (yes, they have to satisfy them - they are the owners of the company). Yet sas cant afford to have their piots go on strike due to the outscourcing.
One solution would be to have some sas guys flying braathes aircraft, but I hardly belive that the bu guys would be happy with that.
Another would be to reassign the norwegian sas pilots to other routes, where pilot capacity is low (ha!), but that would make them operate flts out of cph and arn, making it an expensive solution as they would require a lot of passive travel.
One thing that would help the solution is to have sas take over braathens european routes, but they dont fly tat much outside Norway, at least compared to how much they fly within Norway.

Any other good ideas?

/FS

[Bad-Man]

Flap Sup
You are right, let’s not forget the shareholders. We certainly have to keep them happy and satisfied.
However, I just can’t figure out why the owners of the bakery wanna by their bread at the competitors shop.
How about the very clever politicians in Norway, major shareholders and therefore owners, buying their tickets somewhere else.
Who mentioned IQ??
B

[F28Classic]

you are "forgetting" that SK has been operating in the northernmost part of Norway for around 50 years

Heh I tought that would hurt somebody.
No arguing about that. And I know that there in Sk is lot of norweigian pilots who know their territory (and also sweds and the danes). What I ment was just throw some "gas to the flames".
Succeed::ok:
I'm just in a course for big consortium where all the "country specialists" operate their own territory with same brand. And in that sense would be exteremly good to make BU in charge for norway.
And what about this?!BU get their all their charts from? It ain't Blue1, that's for sure...
Are you in mother company responsible that some former branch (which have been outsourced) of yours makes you somehow superior. If I can remind you as an example Blue1 is 100% owned by sas. Isn't that also one branch of your company???
And get a life yourself pharmair. I have seen it, feel it and experienced it that some of the SAS airline pilots kept themselves suprerior for everybody else. Not the most thank god.

And sorry to inform but I'm not bitter anyway. And happy to say that it don't make any difference to my life what happens in SK and partners. Just making some conversation.

every time SAS is mentioned, spiced up with a few "true" stories about the odd employee with a chip on his shoulder

This was the most best of you.

Where are you from. Not from this ****ing planet.

[Flathatter]

F28, you´re an idiot.

And take some english lessons, will you. I´d hate to have to make sense of your garble on the com.

[pilot dude]

Today in the paper:

B]Plans for merger between SAS and Braathens in Norway[/B]

The leadership of the SAS Group is proposing that the operations in Norway of the airlines SAS and Braathens be merged.

The merger is to effective from May 1st, and will probably mean staff and salary cuts.

In a message to the stock exchange on Wednesday morning, the SAS management says that a joint company will be able to serve the Norwegian market in the best competitive way.

The main reason for the merger is the tough competition from Norwegian and other low-fare airlines over the past year.

The SAS/Braathens staff will be informed about the proposal on Wednesday, says SAS information director Siv Meisingseth.

She underlines that this is a recommendation from the management to the SAS board, and that a final decision has not yet been made.

Meisingseth says that there will be salary changes and changes in working conditions, but that negotiations will first be carried out with the unions.

She says that there are sure to be staff cuts, but how many jobs will be lost has not yet been decided.

Neither has it been decided under which name the merged company will operate in Norway.

(NRK)
[

[Techman]

It looks like the management of SAS is slowly, but surely, eliminating SAS mainline from the equation. And that the unions are fairly impotent when it comes to stopping them.

[pharmair]

Techman,

the battle is just starting, but I'm rather confident that slowly, but surely you'll be proven wrong, at least when it comes to the pilots....

The BU pilots will as mentioned earlier very likely be added to the SAS seniority list, probably retaining their seniority.

The SAS cabin crew are in for hard times though, since they are paid very well compared with BU, while at the same time being separate from swedish and danish CC as far as seniority lists are concerned.

The colour of the airplanes and the uniforms won't matter much, as long as we all can negotiate deals we can live with. As far as the SK pilots are concerned, we took the biggest hit last year, so it won't hurt quite that much this time around....:}

[Diper]

Gjør som American Airlines gjorde når de kjøpte TWA. Alle TWA pilotene på bunnen. Kjenner et par TWA piloter som syntes den svei, men selv om AA tapte penger så var det TWA som gikk "konk"
Bensin på Bålet???

[Techman]

"The battle is just starting"......

Comforting words for the management, as they obviously are well ahead of you.

I fear that the boat has left the docks already, and that you are playing catchup in a rowboat.

You should have secured an agreement on how airlines, aquired by the SAS group, are integrated into the group a long time ago.

This should have been done back when you were in a strong bargaining position.

[pilot dude]

Or SAS will disapear:( from the domestic norwegian marked, Having to fire the execess in pilots (F:mad:CK) . Braathens will expand and hire more (cheaper) :hmm: pilots, and everybody is (un):{happy exept for SAS :D management.

PD:confused:

[pharmair]

Techman,

everything you say in your last post is obviously true.

Unfortunately, the guys in charge of our union failed to see the ambush the SAS Board was planning against us by hiring a CEO that specialises in one thing: outsourcing.:ugh:

However, since we totally gave in to their demands last year, those of us who are left:{ have such liberal work rules that we can compete with anybody, as long as the management are interested in keeping us on board.:confused:

Fortunately, the common senioritylist for the pilots for the three countries makes it hard for management to slaughter the norwegian pilots only due to the increased costs involved. With the integration of BU, close to one third of their pilots will end up at the bottom of the list even if they retain their seniority, so they have more reason to worry this time around, me thinks.

PD, you're scenario is worst case, and even if I'm convinced that that is exactly what mr. Lindegaard would LIKE to do, even he can do the math on how much more that would cost the company to implement, than to actually COOPERATE with the pilot union.

And no, I'm not talking about industrial actions, but simply the cost of transferring pilots to other A/C types and bases to satisfy the seniority list.

For once, SAS's incredibly shortsighted fleetplanning may actually work to OUR benefit.:E

Personally, I'm looking forward to be able to start flying in Northern Norway again; a part of the job that has been sorely missed!:ok: