FLYBE takes off from Exeter
Brunel to Concorde
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notice,
I think I agree with the thrust of your argument, although I would not have put it in such a colourful way.
I shall be very interested to see Flybe's destinations, frequency and aircraft type on their EXT flights to be announced soon. I would like to think that there will be support from the local populace, but would not bet my house on it.
As I see it that is one of the differences between easyJet and bmibaby. The former goes for daily, usually multi daily rotations to the same destination, whereas the baby sometimes goes for one rotation once, twice, thrice or four times a week. I fancy Flybe will be more like baby in this respect.
I prefer the easyJet approach to this particular aspect of low cost air travel scheduling.
I think I agree with the thrust of your argument, although I would not have put it in such a colourful way.
I shall be very interested to see Flybe's destinations, frequency and aircraft type on their EXT flights to be announced soon. I would like to think that there will be support from the local populace, but would not bet my house on it.
As I see it that is one of the differences between easyJet and bmibaby. The former goes for daily, usually multi daily rotations to the same destination, whereas the baby sometimes goes for one rotation once, twice, thrice or four times a week. I fancy Flybe will be more like baby in this respect.
I prefer the easyJet approach to this particular aspect of low cost air travel scheduling.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Funny thing this Exeter connectivity thing - I'm heading down there tomorrow - Rimmer News is naturally covering the the 'official' announcement (the airport jumped the gun and put out a release a couple weeks back)..funny how everybody wants to be negative the whole damn time. I'd have though new routes equal good news (making the bold assumption that they work...but you never know unless you try) But I digress.
The city has crap connectivity to the capital or it's environs. I looked into the surface alternatives to get to TE in time for the meetings.
I'd need to either go down tonight and stay over or get a train from Paddington at 0600 - cept there's no way I can get from Casa Rimmer to Paddington in time I've got stuff on tonight as well so that dosent work...
OK so I could drive. The consensus of opinon round here is that I should allow 4 and a half hours drive time each way (either M23/M25/M3/A303) or A24/A27/A36/A303 or the route that follows the coast sorta Bridgeport way) Whichever, that's NINE hours driving (and I'd need to set off very early indeed).
So what am I gonna do? I'm gonna fly - using the SWAG (Scientific Wild-A$$ed Guess) method about an hour or so each way. A lot quicker AND let's face it a LOT more fun not only that but I've got a good excuse for claiming it on expenses.....result.
But if there was a service between say LCY and Exeter chances are I'd be on it they have to be charging a significant day trip fare to make the self fly option financially viable...
OK not everybody has this range of options but consider the punter from south Devon heading for the smoke for the day riding on the train for 3 hours (assuming no delays) or a 40 or so minute flight (at D8/ATR speeds) to LCY hmmm looks like the train is going to have to be significantly cheaper before it starts to look the better option. Not enough traffic? I reckon more than a 200 folks a day travel between London and South Devon that would also have the price elasiticity to be up for the airline alternative. It seems to me if you have a 30-50 seat T/P that's all you'd need to have a nice little earner on a twice daily...just a thought...
The city has crap connectivity to the capital or it's environs. I looked into the surface alternatives to get to TE in time for the meetings.
I'd need to either go down tonight and stay over or get a train from Paddington at 0600 - cept there's no way I can get from Casa Rimmer to Paddington in time I've got stuff on tonight as well so that dosent work...
OK so I could drive. The consensus of opinon round here is that I should allow 4 and a half hours drive time each way (either M23/M25/M3/A303) or A24/A27/A36/A303 or the route that follows the coast sorta Bridgeport way) Whichever, that's NINE hours driving (and I'd need to set off very early indeed).
So what am I gonna do? I'm gonna fly - using the SWAG (Scientific Wild-A$$ed Guess) method about an hour or so each way. A lot quicker AND let's face it a LOT more fun not only that but I've got a good excuse for claiming it on expenses.....result.
But if there was a service between say LCY and Exeter chances are I'd be on it they have to be charging a significant day trip fare to make the self fly option financially viable...
OK not everybody has this range of options but consider the punter from south Devon heading for the smoke for the day riding on the train for 3 hours (assuming no delays) or a 40 or so minute flight (at D8/ATR speeds) to LCY hmmm looks like the train is going to have to be significantly cheaper before it starts to look the better option. Not enough traffic? I reckon more than a 200 folks a day travel between London and South Devon that would also have the price elasiticity to be up for the airline alternative. It seems to me if you have a 30-50 seat T/P that's all you'd need to have a nice little earner on a twice daily...just a thought...
Brunel to Concorde
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Ace Rimmer,
There is sometimes a fine line between pragmatism and negativity.
It is a fact that past experience shows that EXT to London has not worked. Now that many more people in recent years have become air-orientated for internal UK travel I think it is worth another try.
But what any carrier must do is advertise. There is frequently a sustainable market but the marketing is often poorly focussed or not even focussed at all when it comes to new routes.
If VLM, or whoever, does start a link to LCY from EXT they have to ensure that their potential customers know about it. Most people are not interested in aviation per se, unlike most of us in these forums, and will not automatically read items in the press just because they are related to aviation, even to their local aviation.
If they don't get the marketing right the venture will fail because EXT does not have a catchment area big enough to ensure that enough people will drift onto the service almost by accident.
I hope you have a great day in Devon.
There is sometimes a fine line between pragmatism and negativity.
It is a fact that past experience shows that EXT to London has not worked. Now that many more people in recent years have become air-orientated for internal UK travel I think it is worth another try.
But what any carrier must do is advertise. There is frequently a sustainable market but the marketing is often poorly focussed or not even focussed at all when it comes to new routes.
If VLM, or whoever, does start a link to LCY from EXT they have to ensure that their potential customers know about it. Most people are not interested in aviation per se, unlike most of us in these forums, and will not automatically read items in the press just because they are related to aviation, even to their local aviation.
If they don't get the marketing right the venture will fail because EXT does not have a catchment area big enough to ensure that enough people will drift onto the service almost by accident.
I hope you have a great day in Devon.
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MV Absolutely - advertising is the name of the game these days (well it probably always was) and you can be sure that whichever airline starts up a service to wherever will be looking for support in this from the airport who in turn will doubtless be asking the Devlopment board to pony up the loot.
VLM eh? Don't they have a code share deal with FlyBE? Any road up, all will be revealed tomorrow (well maybe).
VLM eh? Don't they have a code share deal with FlyBE? Any road up, all will be revealed tomorrow (well maybe).
The EXT routes have now been announced.
FlyBE are set to serve:
ALC - 4 X W
BHD - 1 X D
DUB - 1 X D
EDI - 1 X D
GLA - 1 X D
GCI - 3 X D (1 VIA JER)
JER - 3 X D (2 VIA GCI)
AGP - 1 X D
from www.flybe.com
Not sure yet what a/c types will be involved for what routes - the AGP will certainly be 146 operated as the DH4 does not have the legs top get to AGP. I would guess also that the ALC will also be 146 operated. I can see 1 or 2 x 146 and 2 or 3 DH4 being based at EXT for this lot.
FlyBE are set to serve:
ALC - 4 X W
BHD - 1 X D
DUB - 1 X D
EDI - 1 X D
GLA - 1 X D
GCI - 3 X D (1 VIA JER)
JER - 3 X D (2 VIA GCI)
AGP - 1 X D
from www.flybe.com
Not sure yet what a/c types will be involved for what routes - the AGP will certainly be 146 operated as the DH4 does not have the legs top get to AGP. I would guess also that the ALC will also be 146 operated. I can see 1 or 2 x 146 and 2 or 3 DH4 being based at EXT for this lot.
Brunel to Concorde
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Do a test booking for MJV on the flybe site and you will find that the route cannot be booked until November. Nothing about frequency though.
The total of five new routes is correct isn't it?
AGP, ALC, MJV, EDI and GLA. They commence next March.
The others are being flown already aren't they, albeit the BHD will be increased to daily from the present Sat only, again from next March.
I still do not understand why, if they are going to have services to EDI and GLA, they are not at least twice daily - one early morning and one in the early evening. Once a day is no good for business pax not wanting to overnight in Scotland, or for Scottish business pax wanting a quick visit to the Exeter area.
Anyway, that's a small moan and if the Scottish routes do well on once a day doubtless flybe will be looking to increase frequencies. My main sentiment is one of congratulation to flybe for at last giving Devon residents the chance of a fair number of scheduled services at last. I just hope they use them.
I shall be interested also to see if my local field at BRS can maintain its seemingly never-ending rise now that it will be surrounded by low cost rivals at CWL, SOU, EXT and almost certainly BOH in the near future. There is now a hell of choice for us in this area because BHX is not far away, neither is LHR for that matter.
The total of five new routes is correct isn't it?
AGP, ALC, MJV, EDI and GLA. They commence next March.
The others are being flown already aren't they, albeit the BHD will be increased to daily from the present Sat only, again from next March.
I still do not understand why, if they are going to have services to EDI and GLA, they are not at least twice daily - one early morning and one in the early evening. Once a day is no good for business pax not wanting to overnight in Scotland, or for Scottish business pax wanting a quick visit to the Exeter area.
Anyway, that's a small moan and if the Scottish routes do well on once a day doubtless flybe will be looking to increase frequencies. My main sentiment is one of congratulation to flybe for at last giving Devon residents the chance of a fair number of scheduled services at last. I just hope they use them.
I shall be interested also to see if my local field at BRS can maintain its seemingly never-ending rise now that it will be surrounded by low cost rivals at CWL, SOU, EXT and almost certainly BOH in the near future. There is now a hell of choice for us in this area because BHX is not far away, neither is LHR for that matter.
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At the press con at Exeter today flyBE's charismatic MD announced
- a "new investment model" was being investigated
- evaluations on Airbus/Boeing aircraft had bene started and would be complete this winter
- another new base would be announced next spring, where I wonder could they have in mind?
To clear up a few points from ealrier posts the Belfast and Glasgow rotations are inbound aircraft. With a slight re-jig of the schedules one 146 coul operate the early am Malaga, the early afternoon Edinburgh and the evening Alicante without too much difficulty. Murcia sales will start once slots have been awarded. JF was confident these would be obtained.
- a "new investment model" was being investigated
- evaluations on Airbus/Boeing aircraft had bene started and would be complete this winter
- another new base would be announced next spring, where I wonder could they have in mind?
To clear up a few points from ealrier posts the Belfast and Glasgow rotations are inbound aircraft. With a slight re-jig of the schedules one 146 coul operate the early am Malaga, the early afternoon Edinburgh and the evening Alicante without too much difficulty. Murcia sales will start once slots have been awarded. JF was confident these would be obtained.
Brunel to Concorde
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sugarbird,
Could the likes of EXT support a 737 or 319 on the frequencies announced today?
If the new flybe base is to be in the UK I go for NWI. Apart from BHX flybe seems to be going for the smallest regional airports like SOU and EXT, so NWI would be logical from a geographical point of view. Also it has no loco service at all at present.
Could the likes of EXT support a 737 or 319 on the frequencies announced today?
If the new flybe base is to be in the UK I go for NWI. Apart from BHX flybe seems to be going for the smallest regional airports like SOU and EXT, so NWI would be logical from a geographical point of view. Also it has no loco service at all at present.
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The Dash does'nt have the legs to get to AGP? Well from my experience it has a longer endurance and overall range than the 146. It would suffer tho with the fact its a prop and would take possibly 15mins longer.
Why have they changed the 146-300 to a 200 on SOU to the sun? Hmmmmmm.
Why have they changed the 146-300 to a 200 on SOU to the sun? Hmmmmmm.
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The reason it has changed to a 146-200 from a 146-300 in SOU was down to performance limitations of the 146-300. We could only carry a total of 99 pax's on 146-300 on a warm day and be able to get off the rwy - hence changing to a 146-200 where we do not have to offload pax's in order to make the perfomance requirement's.
Brgds
W.G.
Brgds
W.G.
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Grecian the reason for the delay on the Murcia route is because as yet the slot's need to be allocated by the airport - the reason for the delay is that Murcia San Javier airport is primarily a military airbase and is only available to civil flight's for a limited period each day when the base is not being used for military ops. Hence we are at the mercy of the military who control all movement's and in and out and need to fit in with their requirement's.
hope this helps.
brgds
W.G
hope this helps.
brgds
W.G
LGW Alan - With regard to your comment about the DHC8-400 not having the legs to do Exeter - Malaga, on the contrary, as you can see from Bombardier's figures below, the route (approx 840nm/1560km) is easily achievable by this capable aircraft, taking approx 2hrs 30mins to do it :
DHC8-400 Operating Range = 1360nm (2514km) @ 350kts TAS (648km/h) with a full pax load.
DHC8-400 Operating Range = 1360nm (2514km) @ 350kts TAS (648km/h) with a full pax load.
Last edited by RAFAT; 14th Jul 2003 at 11:17.
W.G
But surely, if the flight was sold as a -300, then changed to a -200 for op reasons, some pax might still get left behind
Seem to remember that FLT used to experience these probs operating to the Med out of SOU with -300 a few years back (their solution was to op from BOH instead!)
Seem to remember that FLT used to experience these probs operating to the Med out of SOU with -300 a few years back (their solution was to op from BOH instead!)
