Teesside-2
In respect of Onions comments:
You certainly cant and never will be able to compare MME with our near neighbours but they are growing post Covid and despited Brexit but we appear to be stagnant if not declining when growth was promised. Also seems like the Mayor is again back peddling on the new routes he promised.
Improvement? Well the revamped terminal is certainly great. The inability to recruit and retain ATC and fire crew is worrying but MME is certainly not alone with this problem.
Ahead of were we expected? In terms of promissed pax numbers, agree that we are miles behind and will probably never get close to the promised numbers.
Movements? As has been explained, pretty much irrelevant other than a distraction from disapointing pax numbers.
Financials? Let's see if we get a new government who properly opens the books and dont hide behind obscure accountancy. I actually fear what may happen if the average voter, who couldn't care less about crappy holiday flights, finds out how much is being shelled out to keep Ryanair here.
Development? Well it now seems that the Willis village was just a fantasy and the ongoing issues with the stalled South Side suggest that other than a hand full of paint sprayers the masive investment has not even given a significant return in respect of new jobs.
Lord H may be sweetening us up for a sell off to a foreign developer so we may get the houses and the industrial units afterall.......
You certainly cant and never will be able to compare MME with our near neighbours but they are growing post Covid and despited Brexit but we appear to be stagnant if not declining when growth was promised. Also seems like the Mayor is again back peddling on the new routes he promised.
Improvement? Well the revamped terminal is certainly great. The inability to recruit and retain ATC and fire crew is worrying but MME is certainly not alone with this problem.
Ahead of were we expected? In terms of promissed pax numbers, agree that we are miles behind and will probably never get close to the promised numbers.
Movements? As has been explained, pretty much irrelevant other than a distraction from disapointing pax numbers.
Financials? Let's see if we get a new government who properly opens the books and dont hide behind obscure accountancy. I actually fear what may happen if the average voter, who couldn't care less about crappy holiday flights, finds out how much is being shelled out to keep Ryanair here.
Development? Well it now seems that the Willis village was just a fantasy and the ongoing issues with the stalled South Side suggest that other than a hand full of paint sprayers the masive investment has not even given a significant return in respect of new jobs.
Lord H may be sweetening us up for a sell off to a foreign developer so we may get the houses and the industrial units afterall.......
The continued assumption that something isn't right even when nothing has been proven is obviously some sort of political football for some, including Grumpy.
If something is found to be wrong then yes head should roll, currently there are alot clutching at straws to find something against Houchen. Yes he has politicised it but that's what he ran his campaign on and the office of the mayor effectively owns it. Where as alot of people on here rather than being the bigger person and actually looking at it from an asset and a economic driver continue to want to find wrong in it to suit their political stand point.
The following users liked this post:
The accounts aregument has been done to death.
What is happening with the Southside, the Willis village?
Enjoy the Golden Goose while it lasts......after the 4th July things could change and maybe not for the better, with Mayor Houchen being seen as part of the political enemy.....I hope I'm wrong.
Onion may be correct but it it likely to continue to be "done to death" as long as the mayor is continues to resist FoI requests which he has throughout his reign and isnt a good look as was discovered at Teesworks.
SWBKCB reminds us that global connectivity was one of the principal justifications for the expenditure and we were told that only 50% of flights would be to holiday resorts but other than retaining the KLM flights this concept appears to have been quietly abandoned. At least there was an attempt at flights to LHR and DUB.
Jamesair1 makes a valid point about the new world that awaits us after 4th July hence my point about the Ryanair subsidies.
SWBKCB reminds us that global connectivity was one of the principal justifications for the expenditure and we were told that only 50% of flights would be to holiday resorts but other than retaining the KLM flights this concept appears to have been quietly abandoned. At least there was an attempt at flights to LHR and DUB.
Jamesair1 makes a valid point about the new world that awaits us after 4th July hence my point about the Ryanair subsidies.
Onion may be correct but it it likely to continue to be "done to death" as long as the mayor is continues to resist FoI requests which he has throughout his reign and isnt a good look as was discovered at Teesworks.
SWBKCB reminds us that global connectivity was one of the principal justifications for the expenditure and we were told that only 50% of flights would be to holiday resorts but other than retaining the KLM flights this concept appears to have been quietly abandoned. At least there was an attempt at flights to LHR and DUB.
Jamesair1 makes a valid point about the new world that awaits us after 4th July hence my point about the Ryanair subsidies.
SWBKCB reminds us that global connectivity was one of the principal justifications for the expenditure and we were told that only 50% of flights would be to holiday resorts but other than retaining the KLM flights this concept appears to have been quietly abandoned. At least there was an attempt at flights to LHR and DUB.
Jamesair1 makes a valid point about the new world that awaits us after 4th July hence my point about the Ryanair subsidies.
Again Ryanair subsidies, will fall under the FOI, see my above point.
Also most low costs recieve subsidies but these are to help setbup routes, they are not to be paid to operate the route. See the court papers from the bmibaby case for evidence.
Nope, NCL actually has private sector investors. MME doesn't. It just has a corporate structure that obscures the use of public money which funds the airport.
You can't compare, it's like apple and oranges
You can't compare, it's like apple and oranges
MME don't fall into the FOI request criteria. All the mayoral office does is provide the cash/loan. So to keep asking for something that you can't ask for especially when there is a 3rd party involved is the definition of pointless.
Its like me asking for your tax return from HMRC if I suspect you ve committed income tax fraud... I won't get it. I could report you, and in that light you can report the airport for fraudulent returns (HMRC), companies house filings and Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) for undercutting!
Grumpy,
The Accounts published are the same as any other company privately or publicly owned.
No one is allowed to view commercial deals. Even staff at the airport won't have a clue, only ones to know would be Commercial Department/ Senior Management/ Directors. From what you are saying is you want to know how much Tesco buys their biscuits from the supplier or how much a band charged the council for a show at a council town hall. They are commercial sensitive deals.
If you want to know that sort of stuff why don't you put your money where your mouth is and put an offer into buy the airport. That will probably be the only way you will get the answers you want.
If they were hiding stuff then there wouldn't be soo much available. Try looking at Stockton Hotels to see what little Accounts are shown there looks like.
You say decline when growth was promised. WHERE IS THE DECLINE???????
Month ----- 2018 / 2019 ../ 2022 / 2023 ../ 2024
January -- 10,501/ 9,803/ 2,882/ 10,730/ 12,015
February - 10,459/ 10,966/ 5,346/ 10,887/ 13,171
March ----- 11,987/ 11,109/ 6,970/ 12,928/ 14,396
April ------- 11,811/ 12,603/ 13,861/ 17,988/ 17,684
Total ==== 44,758/ 44,481/ 29,059/ 52,533/ 57,266
Year Total= 139,549/ 147,824/ 173,006/ 226,326/ ____
So please tell me where is the DECLINE that you say there is.
Since purchase other than the Covid effects, there has been growth.
The Accounts published are the same as any other company privately or publicly owned.
No one is allowed to view commercial deals. Even staff at the airport won't have a clue, only ones to know would be Commercial Department/ Senior Management/ Directors. From what you are saying is you want to know how much Tesco buys their biscuits from the supplier or how much a band charged the council for a show at a council town hall. They are commercial sensitive deals.
If you want to know that sort of stuff why don't you put your money where your mouth is and put an offer into buy the airport. That will probably be the only way you will get the answers you want.
If they were hiding stuff then there wouldn't be soo much available. Try looking at Stockton Hotels to see what little Accounts are shown there looks like.
You say decline when growth was promised. WHERE IS THE DECLINE???????
Month ----- 2018 / 2019 ../ 2022 / 2023 ../ 2024
January -- 10,501/ 9,803/ 2,882/ 10,730/ 12,015
February - 10,459/ 10,966/ 5,346/ 10,887/ 13,171
March ----- 11,987/ 11,109/ 6,970/ 12,928/ 14,396
April ------- 11,811/ 12,603/ 13,861/ 17,988/ 17,684
Total ==== 44,758/ 44,481/ 29,059/ 52,533/ 57,266
Year Total= 139,549/ 147,824/ 173,006/ 226,326/ ____
So please tell me where is the DECLINE that you say there is.
Since purchase other than the Covid effects, there has been growth.
Last edited by Harold77; 23rd Jun 2024 at 23:23.
😴 do you know what they pay for them?
You are missing the point, the airport is set up as a commercial venture as a limited company. With contracts, with companies who will guard their commercial deals.
As mentioned before MME will be providing support to Ryanair but as seen with the bmibaby contract it will be an initial outlay not an on going and a regular occurance.
The airport has a loan from the mayoral office/TVCA with a commercial agreement to pay it back. MME can doe as they please with the cash to an extent. The same way you can with a loan from a bank.
You are missing the point, the airport is set up as a commercial venture as a limited company. With contracts, with companies who will guard their commercial deals.
As mentioned before MME will be providing support to Ryanair but as seen with the bmibaby contract it will be an initial outlay not an on going and a regular occurance.
The airport has a loan from the mayoral office/TVCA with a commercial agreement to pay it back. MME can doe as they please with the cash to an extent. The same way you can with a loan from a bank.
Last edited by onion; 24th Jun 2024 at 07:09.
The following users liked this post:
Whether you like it or not, the airport is a highly politicised operation - it has been a key issue in three elections. Investment is sourced from public funds, not from the private sector.
The company structure is one whose only purpose seems to be as a device to avoid public scrutiny - what did Stobart pay for their shares, does anybody have any clue what the Foundation that Houichen created does?
I wouldn't expect the airport to throw open the books, but the approach taken closes down public scrutiny (ask the audit committee)
The company structure is one whose only purpose seems to be as a device to avoid public scrutiny - what did Stobart pay for their shares, does anybody have any clue what the Foundation that Houichen created does?
I wouldn't expect the airport to throw open the books, but the approach taken closes down public scrutiny (ask the audit committee)
Onion is undoubtably quite correct but the Mayor has sold the plan as an airport owned by and for the benefit of the community and so rightly or wrongly the tax payer expects some transparency. This is probably influenced by investigative journalists who claim to smell a rat and it certainly makes a better story to report that the Mayors office again refused to reply to questions and is fighting yet another FoI request. If he had cooperated with the enquiries about the secret deals at Teesworks the press may not have implied dodgy dealings and his reputation may not have been damage.
To Harrold. You apear to have forgotten that it you who reported the decline in last months passenger figures?
You may also be surprised to learn that despite looking down the back of the settle and under the car seat I cant afford to put an offer in for the Airport and our leader claims that it is not for sale in any event although this now apparently seems to be in doubt. Thanks for the suggestion anyway and at least this ticks another one off the Harold bingo card.
PS: you appear to have in intermittent fault with your caps lock.
You may also be surprised to learn that despite looking down the back of the settle and under the car seat I cant afford to put an offer in for the Airport and our leader claims that it is not for sale in any event although this now apparently seems to be in doubt. Thanks for the suggestion anyway and at least this ticks another one off the Harold bingo card.
PS: you appear to have in intermittent fault with your caps lock.
Month ----- 2018 / 2019 ../ 2022 / 2023 ../ 2024
January -- 10,501/ 9,803/ 2,882/ 10,730/ 12,015
February - 10,459/ 10,966/ 5,346/ 10,887/ 13,171
March ----- 11,987/ 11,109/ 6,970/ 12,928/ 14,396
April ------- 11,811/ 12,603/ 13,861/ 17,988/ 17,684
Total ==== 44,758/ 44,481/ 29,059/ 52,533/ 57,266
Year Total= 139,549/ 147,824/ 173,006/ 226,326/ ____
January -- 10,501/ 9,803/ 2,882/ 10,730/ 12,015
February - 10,459/ 10,966/ 5,346/ 10,887/ 13,171
March ----- 11,987/ 11,109/ 6,970/ 12,928/ 14,396
April ------- 11,811/ 12,603/ 13,861/ 17,988/ 17,684
Total ==== 44,758/ 44,481/ 29,059/ 52,533/ 57,266
Year Total= 139,549/ 147,824/ 173,006/ 226,326/ ____
Jan-Apr
Last edited by Ascupart; 24th Jun 2024 at 12:18.
I would guess if you had a graph running along side..you would also see an increase in expenditure (of whatever type) to help those figures along!
Hence we come back to transparency and openness… and those observations by SWBKCB and Grumpy et al !
Bit like the ‘Where has all the money gone’ continuously asked by folk regarding Tories mismanagement of the economy for the last 14 years🤔
Hence we come back to transparency and openness… and those observations by SWBKCB and Grumpy et al !
Bit like the ‘Where has all the money gone’ continuously asked by folk regarding Tories mismanagement of the economy for the last 14 years🤔
To Harrold. You apear to have forgotten that it you who reported the decline in last months passenger figures?
You may also be surprised to learn that despite looking down the back of the settle and under the car seat I cant afford to put an offer in for the Airport and our leader claims that it is not for sale in any event although this now apparently seems to be in doubt. Thanks for the suggestion anyway and at least this ticks another one off the Harold bingo card.
PS: you appear to have in intermittent fault with your caps lock.
You may also be surprised to learn that despite looking down the back of the settle and under the car seat I cant afford to put an offer in for the Airport and our leader claims that it is not for sale in any event although this now apparently seems to be in doubt. Thanks for the suggestion anyway and at least this ticks another one off the Harold bingo card.
PS: you appear to have in intermittent fault with your caps lock.
You are counting the Terminal & Transit Passenger numbers.
The numbers I have mentioned are the Terminal Passengers only. Which are the ones that come in and out the front door.
Transit passengers stay on the aircraft til the next destination. For instance if original aircraft goes tech. The operator may get another route flight to drop in to pick up/ drop off Teesside passengers, Aberdeen - Teesside - Humberside or Bristol- Teesside - Aberdeen flight.
The numbers I have mentioned are the Terminal Passengers only. Which are the ones that come in and out the front door.
Transit passengers stay on the aircraft til the next destination. For instance if original aircraft goes tech. The operator may get another route flight to drop in to pick up/ drop off Teesside passengers, Aberdeen - Teesside - Humberside or Bristol- Teesside - Aberdeen flight.