Manchester-3
As far as I understand reports of the situation, MAN does have a back-up power supply - I'd be amazed if they didn't - but the power surge/spike damaged equipment essential to processing the pax. That must be an extremely tough problem to resolve on the hoof.
That’s my point exactly . A bit of a brain fart writing the original post!
So the next question is why essential equipment didn't have surge protection (or if they did, why the protection failed). I appreciate that sh*t happens but seems odd to have such damage that it's lead to a sustained outage.
.... and that's a very good question I would say.
Paxing All Over The World
I recall a time in the City [London financial district] after the major power cuts of the great storm in October 1987. Our office backup generators worked a treat but - after restoration of mains power - it was agreed to stay on generators for Friday and then move back onto mains on Saturday morning for safety.
Our in-house electricians managed to muck it up and hundreds of small AC/DC plug top converters in the trading room popped their clogs. Happily this was not my domain and my colleaguse spent the weekend scrounging and borrowing replacements round the City - including from competitors - to get operational by the Monday morning.
Our in-house electricians managed to muck it up and hundreds of small AC/DC plug top converters in the trading room popped their clogs. Happily this was not my domain and my colleaguse spent the weekend scrounging and borrowing replacements round the City - including from competitors - to get operational by the Monday morning.
At a guess.. you’d setup your infrastructure to protect you from surges on the grid, you possibly wouldn’t expect them to be generated by your own back-up generators coming online, so possibly a lack of on-site surge protection. So, maybe the generating equipment is sized for a certain demand on the load side, and with it being in the early hours of the morning there wasn’t the expected load to absorb the power generated. It sounds ludicrous, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they’d only tested the backup capacity for normal or peak load resilience. Again, no expert on this stuff, plenty of experience of dealing with operational fallout from poor or inadequate decisions made on infrastructure though! I’m filling in the blanks with assumptions here so treat it with a handful of salt..
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Paxing All Over The World
bobradamus
When you have generators take over, usually the mains has failed and been out for a set number of seconds so sync is not (usually) an issue. When moving back to mains - the control panel of the system shows the Hz of the mains and the electrician will slowly adjust the Hz of the generator to match it. Once they are both equal and stable - the change is made.
At a guess.. you’d setup your infrastructure to protect you from surges on the grid, you possibly wouldn’t expect them to be generated by your own back-up generators coming online, so possibly a lack of on-site surge protection.
bobradamus
When you have generators take over, usually the mains has failed and been out for a set number of seconds so sync is not (usually) an issue. When moving back to mains - the control panel of the system shows the Hz of the mains and the electrician will slowly adjust the Hz of the generator to match it. Once they are both equal and stable - the change is made.
When you have generators take over, usually the mains has failed and been out for a set number of seconds so sync is not (usually) an issue. When moving back to mains - the control panel of the system shows the Hz of the mains and the electrician will slowly adjust the Hz of the generator to match it. Once they are both equal and stable - the change is made.
When switching back to the grid I believe synchronisation would be automatic rather than needing the sort of manual tweaking implied by the last post.
It is not being discussed because the Manchester Airport fan boys on here are trying to pretend it is not happening.
I work on the principle of posting on subjects I know about and leaving other topics to those expert in the areas concerned. The intricacies of power supply constitute a subject that many of us would wisely stand aside from speculating upon. That is certainly the case for me. In posting overt abuse directed towards those who exercise restraint in posting on subjects outside their expertise, the only person you are showing up is yourself.
The one expert contribution I can offer is that power outages can occur at any airport site, including the one you cheerlead for as a "fan boy" (borrowing your vernacular there).
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This morning, that supply failed but then resumed. The surge of returning power - which airport officials may have occurred more than once - damaged physical infrastructure. The combination of a power cut and damaged infrastructure complicated engineers' efforts to get the airport back up and running.
And it's not Pprune.
Last edited by Navpi; 27th Jun 2024 at 17:34.
Paxing All Over The World
Andrewgr2
Yes, it all depends on what has been installed. Many IT systems run constantly via Uninterruptible Power Systems (UPS) So the Hz Sync is not an issue. If the mains fails, power to the load is not broken, whilst the generators run up.
Less important items do not need the batteries and they will shut down and then restart when the generators provide power. Some systems do not run on emergency power as they are not important or may require an enormous generator to support them and the cost benefit is not met.
More modern system do tend to have auto sync again it just depends on the money and the size of the load to be supported and it's importance to the company. For example, some air-con units will be left off.
Thst sounds rather ‘old school’. I believe modern generators will start automatically within a few seconds with critical loads( like IT systems) protected by battery backed UPS in the meantime.
When switching back to the grid I believe synchronisation would be automatic rather than needing the sort of manual tweaking implied by the last post.
When switching back to the grid I believe synchronisation would be automatic rather than needing the sort of manual tweaking implied by the last post.
Less important items do not need the batteries and they will shut down and then restart when the generators provide power. Some systems do not run on emergency power as they are not important or may require an enormous generator to support them and the cost benefit is not met.
More modern system do tend to have auto sync again it just depends on the money and the size of the load to be supported and it's importance to the company. For example, some air-con units will be left off.
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Nearly everyday outbound these flights are heavily delayed, take today for example EK18 1hr 10 delayed, Cairo nearly 2 hours delayed, Doha QR 28 1hr 40 delayed. The inbound flights for these have landed on time or early today. It's the same flights they struggle to get out on time everyday and I can't work out why, when everything else seems to go out on time or within 15-30 mins if it is delayed. I appreciate they've had serious issues over the weekend but this was happening way before Sundays problems.
Most Egyptair flights from Northern Europe seem to be carrying similar delays
Probably flow control and congestion through Greece the Balkans, and further down through Iraq. for UAE and Qatar flights.
Most alternative routes are closed off by various military actions, compounded by US sanctions on Iranian overflights for US codeshare and alliance partner carriers.
Believe Emirates were fined several million dollars on several occasions for over flying both Iran and Iraqi restricted airspace whilst potentially carrying US coded docketed passengers
Probably flow control and congestion through Greece the Balkans, and further down through Iraq. for UAE and Qatar flights.
Most alternative routes are closed off by various military actions, compounded by US sanctions on Iranian overflights for US codeshare and alliance partner carriers.
Believe Emirates were fined several million dollars on several occasions for over flying both Iran and Iraqi restricted airspace whilst potentially carrying US coded docketed passengers
Last edited by Rutan16; 26th Jun 2024 at 23:28.
Air Canada
Do we know why the Air Canada flights from Manchester are so eye wateringly expensive 🤔
On certain days they are nearly treble the amount offered by Air Transat in fact they are so dear its cheaper to get a flight via Cairo!
Their flights from Heathrow on exactly the same days are 60% cheaper.
On certain days they are nearly treble the amount offered by Air Transat in fact they are so dear its cheaper to get a flight via Cairo!
Their flights from Heathrow on exactly the same days are 60% cheaper.