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ex-Tanker
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The big European airline which wanted to buy the other one now has done.
It cost 32 million pounds but there are also debts of 500 million to be taken over.
It cost 32 million pounds but there are also debts of 500 million to be taken over.
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you assume correctly. the deal was concluded and signed this evening in ZRH.
I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.
As an Avro driver I might find myself standing in the rain pretty soon.
On the other the deal could open new doors: LH might offer me a seat on an A380 just because they are loveable guys...
details to be found here
http://www.baz.ch/news/index.cfm?Obj...E664C0D42B0A8A
but brush up your german first
I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.
As an Avro driver I might find myself standing in the rain pretty soon.
On the other the deal could open new doors: LH might offer me a seat on an A380 just because they are loveable guys...
details to be found here
http://www.baz.ch/news/index.cfm?Obj...E664C0D42B0A8A
but brush up your german first
Tsamaya sentle
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efcop,
As an Avro Driver you won't be standing in the rain. Swiss is kicking out all its remaining Saabs (7 based in BSL) and seven ERJ-145 (ZRH based). The later are too small and too expensive to compete against Jumbolinos free of leasing.
So, stop crying and get at work, now
Corrected on March 25th.: The correct figure for ERJ-145 to be dumped is seven A/C, not five, in addition to the seven Saab. Sorry.
As an Avro Driver you won't be standing in the rain. Swiss is kicking out all its remaining Saabs (7 based in BSL) and seven ERJ-145 (ZRH based). The later are too small and too expensive to compete against Jumbolinos free of leasing.
So, stop crying and get at work, now
Corrected on March 25th.: The correct figure for ERJ-145 to be dumped is seven A/C, not five, in addition to the seven Saab. Sorry.
Last edited by ettore; 25th Mar 2005 at 15:08.
Ettore,
once again you know more then the lowly rest of us. How enlighting.
Actually, to tell anyone at Swiss that he should not be worried, everything will be fine, e.t.c. is in my view pure cynism. Nothing will ever be the same for them.
Switzerland as a country has bowed out of the airline market effective today. We are left with some charter airlines and a LCC.
Perfect.
I only hope that the industry has followed this desaster here closely enough to make sure that it won't happen again. But if I see that LH is now basically duplicating the Hunter Strategy that brought Swissair down, I have my doubts.
I suppose Swiss German might be spoken in quite a few cockpits around the world these days any time soon, but not here anymore. I did not make the transition to SWISS but was already left behind when Swissair folded, I have a good job now outside the direct industry, but my heart goes out to all those whose fate is now in the hands of the same people who have fought ZRH airport since I can think back.
Oh by the way, does it strike anyone as odd that the German government has signalled readiness to renegotiate the oppressing restrictions into ZRH just about yesterday? And who ever thought this was about noise???
once again you know more then the lowly rest of us. How enlighting.
Actually, to tell anyone at Swiss that he should not be worried, everything will be fine, e.t.c. is in my view pure cynism. Nothing will ever be the same for them.
Switzerland as a country has bowed out of the airline market effective today. We are left with some charter airlines and a LCC.
Perfect.
I only hope that the industry has followed this desaster here closely enough to make sure that it won't happen again. But if I see that LH is now basically duplicating the Hunter Strategy that brought Swissair down, I have my doubts.
I suppose Swiss German might be spoken in quite a few cockpits around the world these days any time soon, but not here anymore. I did not make the transition to SWISS but was already left behind when Swissair folded, I have a good job now outside the direct industry, but my heart goes out to all those whose fate is now in the hands of the same people who have fought ZRH airport since I can think back.
Oh by the way, does it strike anyone as odd that the German government has signalled readiness to renegotiate the oppressing restrictions into ZRH just about yesterday? And who ever thought this was about noise???
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"Lufthansa’s Chairman and CEO Wolfgang Mayrhuber emphasized the benefits of the integration for both airlines: “Lufthansa and SWISS, two world renowned airlines with a strong sense of quality and service are joining forces. "
Swiss?? Just world renowned for job cuts, going bankrupt and struggling along as a flag carrier.
Good business plan to make Lufthansa richer and hope it puts Swiss more firmly on their feet. Good luck to you all.
Swiss?? Just world renowned for job cuts, going bankrupt and struggling along as a flag carrier.
Good business plan to make Lufthansa richer and hope it puts Swiss more firmly on their feet. Good luck to you all.
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AN2 Driver,
Depicting Swiss the way you do should led you to a logical conclusion: a stand-alone solution was not viable.
Surely, the on-going restructuring process will go on, meaning that some 800 to 1'500 people will lose their job, a figure depending on the outcome of the current negociations. It's the fourth cut in three years, it's again a hard one and it makes everybody sick about the misconception and mismanagement of this airline under Dosé & Co.
But the point is that the merger with Lufthansa will rescue what still can be rescued, which is quite significant: around 8'000 people for 6'500 FTE, plus the related businesses in Switzerland.
Aknowledging this fact doesn't qualify me as being "cynical". On the contrary. I truly believe that this merger is a real chance for Swiss to continue operations and find again the path to growth. Call it the way you want, it was Swiss last chance before going burst again.
Given the new deal, it is in no one's interest to let ZRH Airport down. It does not mean that Lufthansa has the power to impose its views on ZRH Airport in Berlin and in Bad-Wurtenberg. But it will definitely help.
Just a reminder: the treaty that was ready to be signed between Switzerland and Germany, solving a number of issues (noise and fees for ATC by SkyGuide over Southern Germany) has been rejected by the SWISS PARLIAMENT, not by the Germans. It is only as a result of this no-go, that Germany forced quotas and noise limitations on ZRH Airport. Fair enough, indeed, for such an amount of Swiss arrogance.
Depicting Swiss the way you do should led you to a logical conclusion: a stand-alone solution was not viable.
Surely, the on-going restructuring process will go on, meaning that some 800 to 1'500 people will lose their job, a figure depending on the outcome of the current negociations. It's the fourth cut in three years, it's again a hard one and it makes everybody sick about the misconception and mismanagement of this airline under Dosé & Co.
But the point is that the merger with Lufthansa will rescue what still can be rescued, which is quite significant: around 8'000 people for 6'500 FTE, plus the related businesses in Switzerland.
Aknowledging this fact doesn't qualify me as being "cynical". On the contrary. I truly believe that this merger is a real chance for Swiss to continue operations and find again the path to growth. Call it the way you want, it was Swiss last chance before going burst again.
Given the new deal, it is in no one's interest to let ZRH Airport down. It does not mean that Lufthansa has the power to impose its views on ZRH Airport in Berlin and in Bad-Wurtenberg. But it will definitely help.
Just a reminder: the treaty that was ready to be signed between Switzerland and Germany, solving a number of issues (noise and fees for ATC by SkyGuide over Southern Germany) has been rejected by the SWISS PARLIAMENT, not by the Germans. It is only as a result of this no-go, that Germany forced quotas and noise limitations on ZRH Airport. Fair enough, indeed, for such an amount of Swiss arrogance.
Last edited by ettore; 25th Mar 2005 at 15:31.
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Swiss had it coming
Lovely airline, great quality all the best kit, staff canteen that would most UK resturants to shame, but who pays!!
The bottom line is that once people are paying from their own franc's then they'll fly easy, if the companies paying, lets fly Swiss
Countries this size aren't big enough to have a flag carrier any more than the Dutch, or the boys next door in Brusells.
Cheers
Burt
The bottom line is that once people are paying from their own franc's then they'll fly easy, if the companies paying, lets fly Swiss
Countries this size aren't big enough to have a flag carrier any more than the Dutch, or the boys next door in Brusells.
Cheers
Burt
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What I would like to know is where does BA stand all of this. A few years ago Colin Marshall was talking about merging with KLM but they merged with Air France. Just a few years ago Swiss joined One world and it was anticipated that it moving closer to BA. Now Swiss has merged with Lufthansa and would I be correct in saying that this has created 'Europe's Biggest Airline' ahead of AF/KLM. With Alitalia lining up with AF/KLM and SAS sat on the bed next to LH/SR does that only leave Iberia and would they want to join forces with BA anyhow?
Of course it's going to cost LH in the short term but with less competition and less duplication between departments the long term is a bit more rosy. Maybe that's why LH is off loading BMI to Vigin because it probably needs the cash before BMI disappears altogether.
Of course it's going to cost LH in the short term but with less competition and less duplication between departments the long term is a bit more rosy. Maybe that's why LH is off loading BMI to Vigin because it probably needs the cash before BMI disappears altogether.
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Eggs & Bacon,
The LH-LX merger (SR Code is gone) does not add up to the largest european airline. AF-KLM is still ahead. I don't remember the exact figures on the top of my mind, but you'll find them at the www.aea.be Website (download the Tu-something.xls file).
Nevertheless, the consolidation will go on. LH-CEO Mayrhuber stresses that European airlines are being skeezed between the XXL-US companies and the growing airliners in Asia. But it's still a long way before we would see a LH-LX merging with a AF-KLM, he says.
Iberia may well be on the BA shopping list, but it doesn't not change the overall picture. As long as the European nations keep hiding behind their borders instead of implementing a true single market (starting with a single sky ATC), the so-called consolidation will remain a lenghty and costly bits and bites process.
The LH-LX merger (SR Code is gone) does not add up to the largest european airline. AF-KLM is still ahead. I don't remember the exact figures on the top of my mind, but you'll find them at the www.aea.be Website (download the Tu-something.xls file).
Nevertheless, the consolidation will go on. LH-CEO Mayrhuber stresses that European airlines are being skeezed between the XXL-US companies and the growing airliners in Asia. But it's still a long way before we would see a LH-LX merging with a AF-KLM, he says.
Iberia may well be on the BA shopping list, but it doesn't not change the overall picture. As long as the European nations keep hiding behind their borders instead of implementing a true single market (starting with a single sky ATC), the so-called consolidation will remain a lenghty and costly bits and bites process.
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Ettore wrote:
Another story reaches me now from Munich, where Swiss CEO Franz was celebrating yesterday, together with Mayrhuber, the 50th Lufthansa birthday (no April foul). According to a Dow Jones report, Franz said Swiss would get ride of 15 turbo-props. There was no indication if the 15 A/C would be sold or returned to their lessor (LX owns its S2000, some Avros are leased) in addition to the seven ERJ-145 or not.
Mayrhuber reportedly emphasized that European routes are rentable, but could earn more thanks to consolidation. Up to now, we were told that the regional fleets were loss-making.
If anyone could shed some light on those verbal U-turns, I'd be glad to understand...
Corrected on March 25th.: The correct figure for ERJ-145 to be dumped is seven A/C, not five, in addition to the seven Saab. Sorry.
Mayrhuber reportedly emphasized that European routes are rentable, but could earn more thanks to consolidation. Up to now, we were told that the regional fleets were loss-making.
If anyone could shed some light on those verbal U-turns, I'd be glad to understand...
