BAA EDI & GLA - New airport charging structure just around the corner?
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BAA EDI & GLA - New airport charging structure just around the corner?
Over the last few days in the Scotsman newspaper Ryanair have been banging the drum regarding BAA's monopoly over Scottish Airports.
As usual Ryanair (& easyJet) complain that BAA high charges prevent them from operating other (i.e. non-domestic) routes out of GLA, EDI & ABZ.
Ryanair backs this up by saying that they've now got 19 destinations from PIK and have carried their 10 millionth passenger. This could have been replicated at EDI & GLA but isn't due to the high charges.
BAA scoffs at these accusations
Anyway according to the business editorial of the Scotland on Sunday it seems the transport minister, Nicol Stephen, is also getting fed up with these two entrenched positions and is thinking of doing something about it.
So she's working on a solution that will benefit both sides. Here's to that
Read the full articles at Scotsman.com;
http://business.scotsman.com/transport.cfm?id=69582005
and
http://business.scotsman.com/transport.cfm?id=83882005
As usual Ryanair (& easyJet) complain that BAA high charges prevent them from operating other (i.e. non-domestic) routes out of GLA, EDI & ABZ.
Ryanair backs this up by saying that they've now got 19 destinations from PIK and have carried their 10 millionth passenger. This could have been replicated at EDI & GLA but isn't due to the high charges.
BAA scoffs at these accusations
Anyway according to the business editorial of the Scotland on Sunday it seems the transport minister, Nicol Stephen, is also getting fed up with these two entrenched positions and is thinking of doing something about it.
So she's working on a solution that will benefit both sides. Here's to that
Read the full articles at Scotsman.com;
http://business.scotsman.com/transport.cfm?id=69582005
and
http://business.scotsman.com/transport.cfm?id=83882005
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After reading the articles I can't say that I read them the same way you have. Looks to me that the BAA are quite happy with their charge structure and will keep it the way it is.
Mrs Nicol Stephens intervention will do nothing to assist.
Mrs Nicol Stephens intervention will do nothing to assist.
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Perhaps you should look at it again?
From The Scotsman http://business.scotsman.com/transport.cfm?id=83882005
So if it is to benefit all concerned it will have to please both the BAA and Ryanair.
One possible option, as the article states, is that there could be reduced landing fees as long as Ryanair guarantee certain number of passengers. A "win-win" situation.
Runway 31 said;
So this may not be quite right 
From The Scotsman http://business.scotsman.com/transport.cfm?id=83882005
But Nicol Stephen, the Scottish transport minister, is said to be tiring of this regular mud-slinging and is working behind the scenes to broker a solution that will benefit all concerned.
One possible option, as the article states, is that there could be reduced landing fees as long as Ryanair guarantee certain number of passengers. A "win-win" situation.
Runway 31 said;
Looks to me that the BAA are quite happy with their charge structure and will keep it the way it is.
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Sounds like there's another"Development fund" on the way,meaning WE all pay the BAA what they want(via taxes),and Ryanair pays what it expects to!
I'm not sure what the best option is. I'd like to see more flights,but I don't like paying for flights and go nowhere!
I'm not sure what the best option is. I'd like to see more flights,but I don't like paying for flights and go nowhere!
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They are a great airline but only got to the level they are at now by shrewed business moves, sticking to the plan of domination at eu airports but above all the got to where they are by being the bully.
In business you need to be as asertive as possible but there is a line. They push and shove pax, staff and anybody that can do anything to benifit MOL ego.
If BAA are as good as they make themselvs out to be, I would love to see them slap FR about but that wont shut them up.
In business you need to be as asertive as possible but there is a line. They push and shove pax, staff and anybody that can do anything to benifit MOL ego.
If BAA are as good as they make themselvs out to be, I would love to see them slap FR about but that wont shut them up.
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Speaking as a loco driver I'd welcome any initiative by the Scottish Executive as I'm sick of flying domestic sectors when my colleagues at other bases go to Rome, Berlin, Barcelona etc.
Perhaps Nicol Stephen will try and broker a deal or at least put pressure on the situation as it is hurting the Scottish economy whilst other areas in Britain gain.
As the Scotsman points out in Berlin and Rome there are different charging structures for loco airlines. EDI is particularly underserved, so any new deal would be welcome there.
FR now have 19 destination from PIK, phenominal! EDI needs something like this. The tourism & business it would bring in would be huge. Airports with good links and routes are vital to the economy.
Yet in Central Scotland the BAA are strangling growth, at BAA Stansted the landing charges are vastly reduced perhaps because their is competition from the likes of Luton airport. Remember Locos have very tight margins and they will put their aircraft somewhere where they can make more money. The BAA will bumble on. The only losers are Scottish business and tourism and the consumer who still has to travel down to London for a connection, Newcastle or PIK to fly to a "middle of nowhere" airport.
There is only ever one discussion about landing charges on these board and thats the BAA EDI/GLA threads! Every where else in the UK can accomodate Loco's, except EDI/GLA.
Hopefully this initiative will work!
Perhaps Nicol Stephen will try and broker a deal or at least put pressure on the situation as it is hurting the Scottish economy whilst other areas in Britain gain.
As the Scotsman points out in Berlin and Rome there are different charging structures for loco airlines. EDI is particularly underserved, so any new deal would be welcome there.
FR now have 19 destination from PIK, phenominal! EDI needs something like this. The tourism & business it would bring in would be huge. Airports with good links and routes are vital to the economy.
Yet in Central Scotland the BAA are strangling growth, at BAA Stansted the landing charges are vastly reduced perhaps because their is competition from the likes of Luton airport. Remember Locos have very tight margins and they will put their aircraft somewhere where they can make more money. The BAA will bumble on. The only losers are Scottish business and tourism and the consumer who still has to travel down to London for a connection, Newcastle or PIK to fly to a "middle of nowhere" airport.
There is only ever one discussion about landing charges on these board and thats the BAA EDI/GLA threads! Every where else in the UK can accomodate Loco's, except EDI/GLA.
Hopefully this initiative will work!
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Erm, Nicol Stephen is a man! I know he is but it was Scottie who called him she in the first thread.
The only problem I can see is that if Ryanair gets the cost base they want at Edinburgh, every other airline working out of there will want the same, so I can't see it happening. Stansted may well have a different cost structure to the other BAA London airports but that is because all the operators are loco so everyone is getting basically the same deal. Scotland has already got a low cost airport, Prestwick which easily serves the whole of the country.
Maybe be in some peoples minds Ryanair flies to out of the way airports, but the 10 million passengers who have flown with them to and from Scotland don't seem to mind.
Maybe the main airports are not always where the passengers want to go. Last month I flew to Hahn which was a lot handier for the Mosel Valley where I was going than Frankfurt. The secondary airports may be a wee bit further out of the city centre than the main ones, but they are also easier to get through.
I would also argue that central Scotland growth is not being unduly strangled when you look at the new flights Glasgow has gained over the last year. While it could have been better they have done very well in gaining new flights and destinations.
The only problem I can see is that if Ryanair gets the cost base they want at Edinburgh, every other airline working out of there will want the same, so I can't see it happening. Stansted may well have a different cost structure to the other BAA London airports but that is because all the operators are loco so everyone is getting basically the same deal. Scotland has already got a low cost airport, Prestwick which easily serves the whole of the country.
Maybe be in some peoples minds Ryanair flies to out of the way airports, but the 10 million passengers who have flown with them to and from Scotland don't seem to mind.
Maybe the main airports are not always where the passengers want to go. Last month I flew to Hahn which was a lot handier for the Mosel Valley where I was going than Frankfurt. The secondary airports may be a wee bit further out of the city centre than the main ones, but they are also easier to get through.
I would also argue that central Scotland growth is not being unduly strangled when you look at the new flights Glasgow has gained over the last year. While it could have been better they have done very well in gaining new flights and destinations.
Last edited by Runway 31; 24th Jan 2005 at 12:26.
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Up until 2 or 3 years ago I get the impression that BAA were making little or no effort to expand international services, but you do get the impression nowadays that they are making a better fist of things on this particular issue. There has undoubtedly been some political pressure applied and this, along with the executive's route development fund, has made a difference. The Scottish Executive has been much maligned, but it probably deserves some credit on this front.
As Runway31 says, the expansion of flyglobespan and other new routes has improved the picture somewhat, so I would agree that it's not 100% fair to say that Scotland is being unduly strangled.
Whilst discussions on landing fees on this board do generally involve GLA/EDI, they also come up frequently about FR and what they're being charged at other airports. It's well known that FR in particular among the locos do appear to want everything for nothing when it comes to landing charges. I personnally don't think that BAA Scotland and FR failing to see eye to eye on charges is necessarily a sign that BAA is being unreasonable - it is quite possible, even probable, that it is FR who are being unreasonable.
The situation at GLA and EDI is quite different to most of the very quiet airports FR use at the moment - PIK for instance had virtually no flights when FR came along and were therefore able and happy to offer them rediculously low landing charges to get them to take up some of the vast spare capacity they had. Many other "ryanairports" in Europe are the same. On the other hand, you have to remember that both GLA and EDI, particularly EDI, are quite full up at the moment and there is hence very little spare capacity - If FR were to set up a base at EDI it would require massive expansion of facilities which would cost a fortune - a fortune which would almost certainly not be covered by the pittance in landing fees that I'm sure FR would be paying. As a result I can see reasons for BAA being unkeen to cut a significantly cut-price deal with FR. Also it is quite clear that FRs presence at PIK puts some European airlines off flying to GLA - you have to suspect that some airlines currently in-situ at EDI such as AF, LH and SK are putting pressure on BAA not to let FR in!
As Runway31 says, the expansion of flyglobespan and other new routes has improved the picture somewhat, so I would agree that it's not 100% fair to say that Scotland is being unduly strangled.
Whilst discussions on landing fees on this board do generally involve GLA/EDI, they also come up frequently about FR and what they're being charged at other airports. It's well known that FR in particular among the locos do appear to want everything for nothing when it comes to landing charges. I personnally don't think that BAA Scotland and FR failing to see eye to eye on charges is necessarily a sign that BAA is being unreasonable - it is quite possible, even probable, that it is FR who are being unreasonable.
The situation at GLA and EDI is quite different to most of the very quiet airports FR use at the moment - PIK for instance had virtually no flights when FR came along and were therefore able and happy to offer them rediculously low landing charges to get them to take up some of the vast spare capacity they had. Many other "ryanairports" in Europe are the same. On the other hand, you have to remember that both GLA and EDI, particularly EDI, are quite full up at the moment and there is hence very little spare capacity - If FR were to set up a base at EDI it would require massive expansion of facilities which would cost a fortune - a fortune which would almost certainly not be covered by the pittance in landing fees that I'm sure FR would be paying. As a result I can see reasons for BAA being unkeen to cut a significantly cut-price deal with FR. Also it is quite clear that FRs presence at PIK puts some European airlines off flying to GLA - you have to suspect that some airlines currently in-situ at EDI such as AF, LH and SK are putting pressure on BAA not to let FR in!
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Why is Ryanair finding such fault? EZY manage to use GLA/EDI effectively and without problem. Ryanair use Stansted (BAA Owned/Operated) without fuss.
Why make the fuss now?
Jordan
Why make the fuss now?
Jordan
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Jordan, domestic landing charges are a lot lower than international landing charges. Hence the reason ezy use GLA & EDI and have scaled back their international route.
