Greek Summer Programme From Lba

[LBA]

LMAO

My god they will be having a nose bleed now! Whats that.... two updates in one day!

[bmifox]

OK Lets see if it works again. Now marketing...listen very carefully, i will say this only once!
1,First Choice Holidays have put on a NEW flight to DLM (that's Dalaman in Turkey) it departs on a Monday morning for the full summer saeson.
2, Inghams are flying to INN (that's Innsbruck in Austria) on Saturdays from May to September. Now on YOUR website you say this is for skiing holidays but the clue here is Summer! It's called Lakes and Mountains in the summer. I will leave it up to you to find out the times etc...well it is your job now isn't it

My God it works....1755 local time, INN Summer 2005 details finally go on! Just Dalaman to go...go on you can do it!!!

I can give you a clue if you want???
Flights are operated by Pegasus and they land at LBA at 0930 and depart at 1030 2 May-18 Oct 2005.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Those a little more astute than others will have noticed that their posts are missing! I'll tell you why.

Unless you saw Danny's edict that we would not tolerate hidden swearing ***** etc., then yours is gone. Then, naming actual people is not now acceptable either and your post has gone.

Get the picture? You keep on doing it and we will delete them. If you don't get the message then your PPRuNe health will suffer.

PPP

[bmifox]

Well didn't we have fun today! We got the marketing dept to pull their fingers out for once. It was amazing to watch the LBIA webpage this afternoon and watch them spring into action. About time aswell!

OK...so now the NEW A TEAM know that there are currently no flights to LPA or FUE this Winter! What are they going to do about it??? Well how about approaching TUI who originally where going to fly to LPA on Saturday afternoons. Make a deal with them to reinstate their flights, with no flight supplements. See if they would be willing to share the aircraft with First Choice/Thomas Cook or even Airtours! Then get advertising it!!!

I just can\'t believe that in the year 2004/05 we will have no flights at all to half of the Canary Islands!!!

[bmifox]

Just been looking at the Thomson website for flights from Finningley next Summer. Apart from the dozen or so destinations offered by Thomsonfly.com, Thomson Holidays will offer flights to Corfu, Alicante, Gerona, Malaga x3, Paphos,Las Palmas, Ibiza, Palma x3, Malta, Mahon, Naples, Rhodes, Tenerife, Monastir and Bodrum. Excellent for a launch season. I think some of the above destination may be operated on Thomsonfly aircraft but the point is look at the choice! All of the routes bar one we used to have at LBA. If Summer 2005 goes well at Finningley i think we can kiss goodbye to any chioce out of LBA in the future.

[Danny_R]

Same applies for LPL, no services to Zakinthos, Rhodes, Halkidiki, Kos, Skiathos, Thasos, Kefalonia, Santorini or Mykonos. Only island that appears to be served is Corfu.

Big gap there waiting to be filled!

[MerchantVenturer]

I think BRS will have 8-10 ski charters this winter comparred to LBA's 2.

bmifox,

There have been 14 weekly ski charter flights in each of the last three winters and this coming winter there will be more because Plovdiv and Grenoble have been added. There will also be the daily easyJet flight to Geneva from mid December. This summer, as last, there are over one hundred weekly sun charters at the height of the season.

Now none of this is meant to be rubbing things in. It is just a comparison because I believe that BRS and LBA are alike in so many ways and, from this distance, I am totally at a loss to understand why LBA is not served better - local authority ownership cannot be the whole reason.

Both airports are rather inaccessible; they have short or restricted runways with poor weather records (albeit BRS now has Cat III at one end); they have other regional airports within 50-100 miles and large airports such as MAN and LHR relatively conveniently placed. They both have fairly large catchment areas for regional airports with LBA's being the bigger.

Now you say that Finningley is to start with a large selection of charter flights that are no longer available at LBA.

What do the local media in the Leeds and Bradford area make of all this? Bristol Airport was oftened condemned locally as a nice little airport on the hill with no destinations until a few years ago (a bit unfair because even then there were well over a million people using it each year). Even now you read the odd letter in the press from people moaning because they cannot fly direct to some far-flung place without having to go to Heathrow or Gatwick.

I believe that Jet2 is doing very well and is providing an increasing number of scheduled services at LBA. So is the real problem the lack of charter flights to the sun and ski slopes?

[Mooncrest]

Check-in hall B. This is a bit of a double-edged sword (not sure if that's the right expression but there you go). Speaking from personal experience last summer, this extra facility is definitely needed. When I started my Saturday afternoon shifts last year I
invariably walked into (barely) organised pandemonium. There would be at least two 757 flights checking in, one A320, four 737s and a brace of smaller ERJ145s. That's at least 1000 items of baggage going into a baggage hall not much bigger than a municipal swimming pool and it simply wasn't adequate. I can promise you that at certain times this summer, the new facility has provided invaluable relief. The ridiculous thing, however, is that on Saturday evening when there's only two flights checking in, they're both done in hall B, at the far end of the terminal and check-in hall A and it's associated baggage hall is deserted. See if you can guess the situation on a busy Saturday afternoon this summer.

In short, check-in hall/baggage hall B is needed but it simply isn't being used to its full potential. I expect it's down to staffing. However, I do believe Jet2 have taken another look at the place and are said to be interested in utilising it. I hope they go ahead. It absolutely staggers me that the airport company even contemplates hiring it out for functions and that. This is supposed to be an airport, an important regional airport, for heaven's sake ! Please tell me it's not a wind-up.

I think it's good that marketing may actually be taking notice of the sentiments on this thread. If you're reading this, ladies and gents, you know what to do.

[wawkrk]

I was told by a friend who had a comment from EA regarding Finningley.He and LBA are not at all worried about it,infact, they think it is a bit of a joke.
This was last year,is it still a joke then?
wawkrk

[bmifox]

Mooncrest, it was a joke mate ...sorry! Check-in hall B should have Jet2 in there! They could take up 10 desk with 6 left for BY and MYT. I havn't been up to LBA for a month or 2...is there room for anymore shops in that area? namely Boots which is what is needed now!
Merchant Venturer, 15+ Ski charters a week from BRS this Winter. That must be 10 resort airports in Europe...what a choice!!! LBA has Chambery and Innsbruck again this Winter. I wonder if the ski companies now that during the winter bmi will have 2-3 aircraft sat on the ground all day Saturday and Sunday mornings. Surely if they charter an EMB-145 to do a TLS/TRN/SZG etc etc bmi would jump at the chance of having their planes in the air earning money. LBA marketing could inform Crystal, Thomson ski, Inghams etc that they think a 50 seat aircraft going to these new destinations may well be viable. I bet BRS has flights to LPA and FUE aswell...lucky things! I believe you are getting Aer Lingus back at BRS soon? We lost EI at the same time as you along with NCL i think? FR do upto 3 flights a day to DUB from LBA. T hey also fly from BRS 3 time a day but BRS have managed to win back a 'Quality' airline to the route aswell. Have LBA approched EI about coming back to LBA i wonder??? I doubt it very much...can't go upsetting FR now can you! I've only been to BRS once..WOW what an airport. Nice new terminal buliding, easy check-in and a fantastic range of flights. LBA should be where BRS is now,and with a bit of work and forward planning it could be.
P.S. For the marketing team at LBA well done for all your hard work yesterday updating the website...this is only the start my friends. Don't forget to put the extra Dalaman on there will you on Monday mornings during summer 2005. I'm away now for 2 days of flying. I hope you will be able to cope. I will be back on Saturday but in the meantime if you need to know anything else or if your not sure on anything just pop downstairs and ask a cleaner! I'm sure Iona will help you out with anything you need to know
BTW Iona did let me know the full Airtours winter 04/05 schedule so here goes,
Thu- IWD3212 ACE-LBA LANDS 1315 IWD3214 LBA-ACE DEPTS 1415
Fri- MYT354 TFS-LBA LANDS 1630 MYT353 LBA-TFS DEPTS 1755
Sat- JKK3203 ALC-LBA LANDS 1020 JKK3204 LBA-ALC DEPTS 1115
Sun- JKK3205 AGP-LBA LANDS 0915 JKK3206 LBA-AGP DEPTS 1015

[682ft AMSL]

Watched this with interest for a while, so excuse the long reply.

Aa we’ve said before, the IT industry in the North is centred around MAN and the cost efficiencies that result from a single operating base is not something that can be matched through lower airport handling charges. An operator like Thomas Cook pushes the best part of 200,000 passengers per month through MAN in summer and clearly a reasonable slug of this is going to come from around the LBA catchment area. They could move one or two aircraft out of MAN and into Leeds to pick up this demand, but what’s in it for them? The MAN base is reduced in size and therefore is less efficient as a result. The small Leeds base is (as with all small based) relatively inflexible and inefficient which pushes the unit cost per passenger up. And what do they get for all of this extra cost? Probably the same amount of passengers as they had before, just split over two operating bases instead of one? Airports like Cardiff, Bristol, Newcastle have fairly discrete, localised catchment areas and are not within easy reach of major operating bases. Tour Operators are therefore prepared to incur the cost of maintaining a small base in order to protect their market share. Whereas Thomas Cook feel reasonably confident that they will still get business form Yorkshire even it does mean a trek to MAN, they will be less confident about say people from the South West travelling to BHX or LGW. More likely the punter from the South West will think “sod that, I’ll book with First Choice, Thomson or whoever” Without that competitive pressure, places like Leeds, Liverpool and (I believe) Finningley will not make serious inroads into the near 10million IT passengers that MAN gets every year.

This should always be borne in mind when sledging the LBA marketing team and let’s not forget, Jet2 had other choices other than Leeds. Someone somewhere in the LBA hierarchy must have been making the right noises.

That is not to say that they should be without criticism. The website is frequently out of date and the simple process of keeping the ever reducing list of charter flights seems beyond them. Even after yesterday’s changes the remaining My Travel winter programme is still not showing correctly. The LBA team seem completely unable to engage the press or get them interested in airport or route developments. No news yet in the YEP or T&A about the London City service, for example. They do little in the way of route advertising in the way that Manchester does in this region. There biggest failing though has to be their failure to work with Channex to get more charter business. As mentioned above, Thomas Cook/ First Choice aren’t going to move an aircraft out of MAN and into Leeds because its expensive to run a single aircraft base. But in Channex, Leeds now has a seasoned charter operator with a large crew and engineering base and which appears to have plenty of spare capacity to offer (aircraft not yet in service + spare capacity in the Jet2 schedule) . The 737-300s are of a great size for a fairly low risk entry into the Leeds IT market and (I’m assuming) can reach most of the destinations in a typical based programme that are within 1500nm great circle. Compliment this with a few foreign a/c for the Canaries and Cyprus before you know it, a decent sized programme could be established. A switched on marketing team should be able to broker some sort of deal between Channex and the say First Choice and/or Thomas Cook which allowed one of their 737s to be dusted off before Summer 05 and sent up to Leeds for just such a role.

[Danny_R]

Channex are currently planning an expansion that will have them leasing in aircraft, could be that they are planning something in the passenger arena.

[bmifox]

682,
WOW, you obviously DON'T work in the LBA marketing team but what you have just written is exactly what needs to be done. Thankyou. I have printed off a dozen copies of what has been said on here over the last couple of days and am going to post them off to various holiday companies and the Yorkshire Post, Yorkshire Evening Post and the T & A for their views.

[LBA]

Fantastic stuff BMi, lets see what response (If any!) We get.

[onion]

Interesting to see that people from Leeds see the airports marketing department as not performing to what they should be. I on the other hand have to say they are in Teesside and surrounding area are doing well at promoting the airport. For instance in Darlington which should be bmibaby territory there are more advets for Jet2. Ok these are Jet2's adverts but if Jet2 operate similar to Ryanair Leeds will have given Jet2 some money towards these adverts. The other experience of Leeds marketing and probably the most annoying is the way all but the smaller local travel agents push Manchester, Newcastle and Leeds before Teesside. When I live about 15 miles from Teesside and 50 miles from Leeds and even further away from Newcastle and Manchester. Ok I accept there is more holiday traffic from Leeds, Newcastle and Manchester but this situation happens all the time even when flying to the more popular destinations such as Palma.

682 the situation with Manchester/Leeds also happens up here with Newcastle/Teesside and Leeds/Teesside. I booked a holiday the other week out of Teesside and was lucky as there were very few holidays to the destination I wanted out of Teesside. On the other hand had I been prepared to travel there was plenty of choice out of Leeds and Newcastle. People in the Teesside area are often forced to fly out of Leeds, Newcastle and Manchester to popular destinations such as Palma purely and simply because they sell out quickly. Hopefully the added capacity Thomson are promising next year will rectify this and help bring prices down a little.

[bmifox]

AT LAST.... The new DLM charter for Summer 05 finally appeared on the LBIA website late yesterday! 2 days of hints at last paid off.

[Mooncrest]

I'll keep this short coz it's beginning to look like it's all been said now ! The aircraft are out there, the customers are out there, the destinations are out there and the airport is already here. They just need to be brought together.

Wot a thread !

[BEST L/CONTROLLER]

BMI FOX!

Where on the website is the DLM charter??

CHEERS!!!!

[Going loco]

The Channex thing does sound like a good idea. As this shows

http://www.channel-express.co.uk/passenger/avail.html

Channex are more than happy to put one of their existing Jet2 fleet up for charter so in principle there should be no objection from them. Lots of examples of tour operators chartering aircraft from ‘mainstream’ airlines so should be no problems on that score
For Channex it sounds like a good way of optimising the Leeds base without really having to over-stretch themselves with the Jet2 schedules. I’m sure an extra 737 could fly an intensive schedule for a tour operator(s) without needing much in the way of extra crew or engineering support. That should make the rates quite competitive which might well grab the attention of the tour operators, especially if the airport is prepared to throw a bit of money at it in terms of publicity, car parking offers and the like. The only conflict might be if the tour operator wants to sell a percentage of some flights as seat-only, which for Malaga, Faro etc would bring them into direct competition with Jet2.

Maybe the first port of call should be My Travel. They’re closing their base next summer but will probably want to keep some sort of presence at Leeds. Sounds like a good opportunity for Channex. Or what about Thomas Cook / First Choice. These two do like to share capacity with each other – so what about 737-300 programme in which they take 74 seats each per flight. Can’t believe that would rip the heart out of their MAN schedules and should be a doddle to sell. Or what about these specialist Greek operators that part-base aircraft at Newcastle, Bristol and so on?

To the LBA marketing team – as Mooncrest says all the ingredients are there to see lots of regular EXS prefixes up on the departure boards next year. Make it happen.

Best – the DLM charter is here

http://www.lbia.co.uk/flightinformat...hts_turkey.php

[Caslance]

The aircraft are out there, the customers are out there, the destinations are out there and the airport is already here. They just need to be brought together.

And the profits? Where do they lie?

At the moment they seem to lie largely in operating from charter airline "hubs" like MAN, LGW and LTN.

This may, and possibly will, change but in these uncertain times airlines and tour operators are unlikely to drop already profitable core business at the "big" airports to take a gamble on new markets elsewhere.

Remember it's a business, chaps, and money doesn't just talk - it bellows at the top of its voice.