Man killed at Liverpool airport by car thieves
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Well lets look at some stats for Liverpool (Merseyside) the high crime area ...
Crimes per 1000 population
North Yorkshire 74.98
Greater Manchester 140.93
Merseyside 99.67
South Yorkshire 102.00
West Midlands 119.59
West Yorkshire 129.76
Metropolitan Police 123.54
Hmmmm, well yes that explains the high crime comments.
Crimes per 1000 population
North Yorkshire 74.98
Greater Manchester 140.93
Merseyside 99.67
South Yorkshire 102.00
West Midlands 119.59
West Yorkshire 129.76
Metropolitan Police 123.54
Hmmmm, well yes that explains the high crime comments.
It is so disappointing to see the "hey, ho, these things happen" attitude of the LPL management quoted above, rather than reading of any determination to crack down on what appears to be a continuing problem. Because this dreadful incident will undoubtedly lead to passengers not booking through Liverpool now it has reinforced a stereotype about the city, especially when travellers read about the past attacks as well, and the airport (and Easyjet) will suffer.
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mouser,
When I worked at Brum, one of our ATCAs had a phone call from the Met [police] to say that her car was causing an obstruction "somewhere in London"
. She said that her car was in the Staff car park.It wasn't. The griff was, nick a car from "London", drive to "An Airport", park, and "nick 'n'drive" back 
We also had an ATCO, similar phone call from Wolverhampton...Repy, "No, it can't be mine, there's no battery and two tyres are flat!"
It was his car
If "they" want it, "they" will nick it. Fact of life
watp,iktch
When I worked at Brum, one of our ATCAs had a phone call from the Met [police] to say that her car was causing an obstruction "somewhere in London"
. She said that her car was in the Staff car park.It wasn't. The griff was, nick a car from "London", drive to "An Airport", park, and "nick 'n'drive" back We also had an ATCO, similar phone call from Wolverhampton...Repy, "No, it can't be mine, there's no battery and two tyres are flat!"
It was his car
If "they" want it, "they" will nick it. Fact of life
watp,iktch
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Daysleeper. Your comments make the car park at LJLA sound like the main road into Baghdad! 11 cars were stolen from the airport carparks last year. Not good I know, but considering 13 cars were stolen from a car park at Gatwick during two weeks in August last year it's a far cry from the crimewave you portray. Ahh, of course, let me guess, we scousers came down and nicked them.....
As for the comments elsewhere about the attitude of Management I think in some respects you have to ask 'what can you do?'. The widow of the victim had been talking to an airport security man seconds before the incident took place. Security can only do so much in the face of a concerted effort to commit a crime..
As for the comments elsewhere about the attitude of Management I think in some respects you have to ask 'what can you do?'. The widow of the victim had been talking to an airport security man seconds before the incident took place. Security can only do so much in the face of a concerted effort to commit a crime..
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Some people never ever cease to amaze me 
They can turn a thread related to a very serious and incredibly sad but geographically unimportant event into yet another tiresome excuse to have a shameless "pop" at Merseyside and its supposedly soaring crime rate and thieving scum populace.
You can go to any big city on this wonderful planet of ours and you'll find similar crimes committed by similar "people" (in the loosest sense of the word for they lack the common respect for life that defines us as beings) for the same old reasons - moral, social and regional depravation, poor education and opportunity, and poverty.
Car crime happens everywhere and to think otherwise is ignorant and above all else, stupid. Instead of looking for solutions to the problem it's all too easy to relax back into our old stereotypes - "ahhh it's Liverpool, what do you expect? They had x number of cars burnt out in the car park last year blah blah blah"
Liverpool and it's populace are no different in make-up from anyone else in this country or indeed any other Global conurbations that have had their fair share of economic kicks down the years.
I wonder what would happen if, for example, someone here frequently came out with rubbish like "ohh thieving black / Asian / Arabic / Jewish / German / Irish / insert name of ethnic or racial minority here* / scum always coming here and stealing our precious upper-middle class possessions etc etc etc etc etc" ?
For me regional-racism is becoming increasingly tiresome and worrying and, from now on, I'm going to treat people who take part in it like I would treat any other racist scumbags.
Report them to the moderators and have their little electro-ignorant arses well and truly kicked
Now, back to the point - as I said, this really sad incident at Liverpool highlights the shortcomings in security at the Airport - especially in the drop off area - and specifically that criminally minded types with no respect for life will stop at nothing at all to get what they want.
Very sad
They can turn a thread related to a very serious and incredibly sad but geographically unimportant event into yet another tiresome excuse to have a shameless "pop" at Merseyside and its supposedly soaring crime rate and thieving scum populace.
You can go to any big city on this wonderful planet of ours and you'll find similar crimes committed by similar "people" (in the loosest sense of the word for they lack the common respect for life that defines us as beings) for the same old reasons - moral, social and regional depravation, poor education and opportunity, and poverty.
Car crime happens everywhere and to think otherwise is ignorant and above all else, stupid. Instead of looking for solutions to the problem it's all too easy to relax back into our old stereotypes - "ahhh it's Liverpool, what do you expect? They had x number of cars burnt out in the car park last year blah blah blah"
Liverpool and it's populace are no different in make-up from anyone else in this country or indeed any other Global conurbations that have had their fair share of economic kicks down the years.
I wonder what would happen if, for example, someone here frequently came out with rubbish like "ohh thieving black / Asian / Arabic / Jewish / German / Irish / insert name of ethnic or racial minority here* / scum always coming here and stealing our precious upper-middle class possessions etc etc etc etc etc" ?
For me regional-racism is becoming increasingly tiresome and worrying and, from now on, I'm going to treat people who take part in it like I would treat any other racist scumbags.
Report them to the moderators and have their little electro-ignorant arses well and truly kicked
Now, back to the point - as I said, this really sad incident at Liverpool highlights the shortcomings in security at the Airport - especially in the drop off area - and specifically that criminally minded types with no respect for life will stop at nothing at all to get what they want.
Very sad
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niteflight01
You cannot say things like that, its not the 'done thing' to do anything but degrade the city its people or the airport in its attempt to grow when discussed on this forum. Others who post here will not have it. You must take the same Harry Enfield stereotypical view.
Everytime Liverpool is used, in what ever context, the same old cliches are spouted by the same people.
You only have to go back over this thread, the thread 'Liverpool Airport' and the thread 'VLM Lpl-Lcy' for examples of what I mean.
You can also see that the crime myth that is used to justify comments by some, is disproved by the crime statistics (see further up on this thread) published by the UK Government through the Home Office for the Liverpool area. It fares BETTER than nearly all of the UK's metropolitan areas.
You cannot say things like that, its not the 'done thing' to do anything but degrade the city its people or the airport in its attempt to grow when discussed on this forum. Others who post here will not have it. You must take the same Harry Enfield stereotypical view.
Everytime Liverpool is used, in what ever context, the same old cliches are spouted by the same people.
You only have to go back over this thread, the thread 'Liverpool Airport' and the thread 'VLM Lpl-Lcy' for examples of what I mean.
You can also see that the crime myth that is used to justify comments by some, is disproved by the crime statistics (see further up on this thread) published by the UK Government through the Home Office for the Liverpool area. It fares BETTER than nearly all of the UK's metropolitan areas.
Last edited by dwlpl; 11th Jan 2004 at 09:35.
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Wouster, mouser
I mearly report what I see,. I was on a contract at LPL when the security landcruiser was stolen. we used to park in the staff car park next to a smashed up wreck. Walk through the long stay past another smashed up wreck.
One example , A ford mondeo all tyres flat, windows smashed, bonnnet open and bodywork badly damaged. Talked to the car park attendant. Not interested as long as they pay the fee when they pick it up . But if its here more than a month we might call the police. Not that they are interested.
Happens all the time.
I mearly report what I see,. I was on a contract at LPL when the security landcruiser was stolen. we used to park in the staff car park next to a smashed up wreck. Walk through the long stay past another smashed up wreck.
One example , A ford mondeo all tyres flat, windows smashed, bonnnet open and bodywork badly damaged. Talked to the car park attendant. Not interested as long as they pay the fee when they pick it up . But if its here more than a month we might call the police. Not that they are interested.
Happens all the time.
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dwlpl
Those were precisely the points I was making and I don't see quite where you think I too was having a shameless, stereotypical dig at Liverpool?
I was attacking those people here who, at the slightest mention of Merseyside or anything connected to it - even when it involves a very sad incident like this, drag out the same old comfortable stereotypes because they don't have the intelligence or guts to see beyond them. It's just plain ignorance and, in my eyes, a form of racism.
Also, this thread is most certainly not the place to bring these stereotypes - or indeed argue about them like I seem to be doing, out into the open.
I think Jet Blast is probably a more appropriate forum.
I was attacking those people here who, at the slightest mention of Merseyside or anything connected to it - even when it involves a very sad incident like this, drag out the same old comfortable stereotypes because they don't have the intelligence or guts to see beyond them. It's just plain ignorance and, in my eyes, a form of racism.
Also, this thread is most certainly not the place to bring these stereotypes - or indeed argue about them like I seem to be doing, out into the open.
I think Jet Blast is probably a more appropriate forum.
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niteflite01
That was my attempt at sarcasm to point out that a good number of others who have posted here take that stereotypical view and its unusual for people, like yourself, to see through that 'racism' as you put it and point out that there are criminals all over the world. Daysleeper quite clearly does not see that fact, it must be wonderful to live somewhere were there is no crime!
That was my attempt at sarcasm to point out that a good number of others who have posted here take that stereotypical view and its unusual for people, like yourself, to see through that 'racism' as you put it and point out that there are criminals all over the world. Daysleeper quite clearly does not see that fact, it must be wonderful to live somewhere were there is no crime!
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Doh...sorry it's been a loooooooooong night 
Yes, it surprises me too that people live in such crime free and Utopian societies. And any crime that is committed why, it's just so easy to blame the scousers isn't it? Too easy to ignore the ills of 21st century life and some of the social-monsters we've all helped to create and blame it on the stereotypes.
Admittedly events like this don't help the public image of Merseyside - how could they - and it's people - nor does the fact that the airport is located in a dodgy area. But this is a man's life that has been lost and I hoped that people may be able to leave those stereotypes behind just for once.
People need to remember that the country and the world are full of "dodgy areas" - Liverpool is certainly no worse or rougher than some areas of Manchester, Glasgow, Birmingham and London believe me.
I just don't see why people from Liverpool should put up with this sort of nonsense spilling into everything they do, any longer. A joke's a joke but this just isn't "funny" anymore.
Anyway...from BBC News -
Three charged with airport murder
Three men have been charged with murder following the death of a holidaymaker at Liverpool John Lennon Airport.
Father-of-three Michael Howard, 57, was due to go to Spain with his wife when he died under the wheels of his own car as he tried to stop it being stolen last Tuesday.
Craig Abbott, 21, from Carley Walk; Neil Dolan, 20, from Yeardon Walk and a 17-year-old youth were also charged with conspiracy to steal.
The three, all from the Speke area of the city, are due to appear at Liverpool magistrates court on Monday.
Yes, it surprises me too that people live in such crime free and Utopian societies. And any crime that is committed why, it's just so easy to blame the scousers isn't it? Too easy to ignore the ills of 21st century life and some of the social-monsters we've all helped to create and blame it on the stereotypes.
Admittedly events like this don't help the public image of Merseyside - how could they - and it's people - nor does the fact that the airport is located in a dodgy area. But this is a man's life that has been lost and I hoped that people may be able to leave those stereotypes behind just for once.
People need to remember that the country and the world are full of "dodgy areas" - Liverpool is certainly no worse or rougher than some areas of Manchester, Glasgow, Birmingham and London believe me.
I just don't see why people from Liverpool should put up with this sort of nonsense spilling into everything they do, any longer. A joke's a joke but this just isn't "funny" anymore.
Anyway...from BBC News -
Three charged with airport murder
Three men have been charged with murder following the death of a holidaymaker at Liverpool John Lennon Airport.
Father-of-three Michael Howard, 57, was due to go to Spain with his wife when he died under the wheels of his own car as he tried to stop it being stolen last Tuesday.
Craig Abbott, 21, from Carley Walk; Neil Dolan, 20, from Yeardon Walk and a 17-year-old youth were also charged with conspiracy to steal.
The three, all from the Speke area of the city, are due to appear at Liverpool magistrates court on Monday.
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niteflite01
Most crime is committed by opportunists allbeit by people preying on others vulnerability as this incident proved.
The CCTV pictures showed that this crime took approx 25 seconds from when the mans car parked to when the car ran down the man.
Most crime is committed by opportunists allbeit by people preying on others vulnerability as this incident proved.
The CCTV pictures showed that this crime took approx 25 seconds from when the mans car parked to when the car ran down the man.
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Indeed it is dwlpl but one has to look to the deep-seated reasons behind the motivation for such opportunism and crime in general.
People aren't born opportunist thieves.
Or murderers for that matter.
People aren't born opportunist thieves.
Or murderers for that matter.
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DWPL
quote
You can also see that the crime myth that is used to justify comments by some, is disproved by the
crime statistics (see further up on this thread) published by the UK Government through the Home
Office for the Liverpool area. It fares BETTER than nearly all of the UK's metropolitan areas.
unquote
Those numbers are just THE RECORDED statistics. Many, many events are not reported to the
police because the person doing the reporting knows full well that it will be pointless and in many
cases the police just don't want to know, because if they did record it then their crime figures
would go up and people would then be questioning the low rate of crime detection and lack of
results. I have had my vehicles broken into twice at Liverpool Airport. That figure does not feature
in any statistics because I did not report it. As there was no uniformed police officer based at the
airport it would be necessary to drive to a not so local police station to make the report.
quote
You can also see that the crime myth that is used to justify comments by some, is disproved by the
crime statistics (see further up on this thread) published by the UK Government through the Home
Office for the Liverpool area. It fares BETTER than nearly all of the UK's metropolitan areas.
unquote
Those numbers are just THE RECORDED statistics. Many, many events are not reported to the
police because the person doing the reporting knows full well that it will be pointless and in many
cases the police just don't want to know, because if they did record it then their crime figures
would go up and people would then be questioning the low rate of crime detection and lack of
results. I have had my vehicles broken into twice at Liverpool Airport. That figure does not feature
in any statistics because I did not report it. As there was no uniformed police officer based at the
airport it would be necessary to drive to a not so local police station to make the report.
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Rockwell,
So are people in the Merseyside area less likely to report crime, or is the fact that people do not report all crime a nationwide - if not worldwide phenomenon ?
Just curious.
So are people in the Merseyside area less likely to report crime, or is the fact that people do not report all crime a nationwide - if not worldwide phenomenon ?
Just curious.
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dwpl this in support of your view, looking for more recent figures.
Rockwell If you don't report your thefts, then how do you make a claim against your insurance? Also, if less crimes are reported, then less funds will be made available to the local authority for policing! Catch 22!
Rockwell If you don't report your thefts, then how do you make a claim against your insurance? Also, if less crimes are reported, then less funds will be made available to the local authority for policing! Catch 22!
Last edited by newswatcher; 12th Jan 2004 at 16:57.
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danfulton & dwlpl
How you wish to interpret statistics is up to you. I am merely proving that RECORDED statistics are
just that, i.e. incidents which have been REPORTED and RECORDED. The real crime figure will
obviously be higher in all areas. dwlpl has a habit of collecting numbers without understanding how
they have been obtained and their limited significance. How the true figure fits into the nationwide
league table of true figures will never be known, but to rely on the quoted statistics to disprove a
'myth' is erroneous. Victims of crime know the difference between reality and a myth.
Yes, Liverpool Airport at long last has a resident police officer, it took a long time did it not to
get one based at the airport - how long has the airport been in existence?
I am aware of several other similar vehicle related events - it is a fact of daily unreported life
at the airport - and don't forget some years ago the then resident police helicopter was attacked
and firebombed on the main terminal apron. A conversation with the crew on one occasion brought up
the subject of an item of police equipment which had gone missing from the police 'secure' compound
within the 'secure' airport. Merseyside police now base their heli ops at RAF Woodvale / Southport.
newswatcher
fortunately nothing of value was nicked so I picked up the loss personally. At the end of the day
you would only be paying a higher insurance premium the following year. I hear what you say and
agree 'Catch 22'.
My dealings with reporting crimes to the police over the years has shown that they don't want the
trouble of even entering it in the log - to keep their crime figures down - let alone doing anything
about the crime itself.
In your case Newswatcher you will not have seen the (lack of) security fencing around the side and
back of the airport. Wooden waist high fencing, many individual rails missing, interspersed with the
occasional hedge, allowing anyone to enter, including children riding their bikes through the
sterile area as noted last summer.
How you wish to interpret statistics is up to you. I am merely proving that RECORDED statistics are
just that, i.e. incidents which have been REPORTED and RECORDED. The real crime figure will
obviously be higher in all areas. dwlpl has a habit of collecting numbers without understanding how
they have been obtained and their limited significance. How the true figure fits into the nationwide
league table of true figures will never be known, but to rely on the quoted statistics to disprove a
'myth' is erroneous. Victims of crime know the difference between reality and a myth.
Yes, Liverpool Airport at long last has a resident police officer, it took a long time did it not to
get one based at the airport - how long has the airport been in existence?
I am aware of several other similar vehicle related events - it is a fact of daily unreported life
at the airport - and don't forget some years ago the then resident police helicopter was attacked
and firebombed on the main terminal apron. A conversation with the crew on one occasion brought up
the subject of an item of police equipment which had gone missing from the police 'secure' compound
within the 'secure' airport. Merseyside police now base their heli ops at RAF Woodvale / Southport.
newswatcher
fortunately nothing of value was nicked so I picked up the loss personally. At the end of the day
you would only be paying a higher insurance premium the following year. I hear what you say and
agree 'Catch 22'.
My dealings with reporting crimes to the police over the years has shown that they don't want the
trouble of even entering it in the log - to keep their crime figures down - let alone doing anything
about the crime itself.
In your case Newswatcher you will not have seen the (lack of) security fencing around the side and
back of the airport. Wooden waist high fencing, many individual rails missing, interspersed with the
occasional hedge, allowing anyone to enter, including children riding their bikes through the
sterile area as noted last summer.
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Rockwell.
Crime statistics will be collected under the SAME guidelines by all police forces throughout the UK. How you interpret those figures (posted not by me as you will be aware) 'is up to you'.
Also, maybe you can tell us all why, when you crossed over the boundary into Merseyside, you are compelled not to report a crime(s) which you, presumably, would have reported somewhere else in the UK?
Crime statistics will be collected under the SAME guidelines by all police forces throughout the UK. How you interpret those figures (posted not by me as you will be aware) 'is up to you'.
Also, maybe you can tell us all why, when you crossed over the boundary into Merseyside, you are compelled not to report a crime(s) which you, presumably, would have reported somewhere else in the UK?
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Although i agree that they are where they should be i agree with the person in the article. They should be in prison for much longer!
These are the scum of our country and they are the direct reason for the country being in the state it is in today! I see this a lot where i am from and i think there is only one place for them...PRISON!
My best regards go out to the family who have lost an innocent loved one.
Dave
These are the scum of our country and they are the direct reason for the country being in the state it is in today! I see this a lot where i am from and i think there is only one place for them...PRISON!
My best regards go out to the family who have lost an innocent loved one.
Dave