SWA departs from closed runway at KPWM - 6/25/24

[BFSGrad]

Although the linked article seems to contain some inaccurate info (shocker!), the gist of the incident is that a SWA flight departed KPWM on a runway that had been NOTAM’d as closed, overflying person(s)/vehicle(s) that were still on the runway. KPWM has a part-time tower that didn’t open until a few minutes after the SWA flight departed.

A Southwest flight appeared to takeoff from a closed runway

[BFSGrad]

Observations from listening to LiveATC ATIS and Tower/CTAF archives (0930-1000Z)

ATIS

From 0930-0939Z, ATIS contained AWOS weather observations with appended pre-recorded airport info, which included runway 11/29 closed. After the 0939Z automated observation, ATIS reverted to 0851Z weather without any appended airport info. After 3-4 cycles of this, ATIS then reverted to ATIS Info R (assume change occurred sometime after 0945Z after tower opened ).

Tower/CTAF (paraphrased)

Two Brickyard (Republic) regional jets are clearly heard providing CTAF broadcasts starting with pushback, then taxi route, up to taking runway (both 36). First Brickyard announced taxi route as “crossing closed runway 11/29 at Charlie.”

Unknown: Southwest, are you on frequency? (no response heard)

Brickyard: …trailing Southwest…, heading to 36

Airport ops (assume): planning for on-schedule opening of runway 29 (appears to be general broadcast)

Airport ops (assume): Southwest pulling onto 29, just to let you know, there is still a vehicle on 29. (no response heard)

Unknown: I tried to warn him (best guess, weak transmission, poor audio)

KPWM tower: Class C airspace in effect, info R current… (general announcement tower is open)

Airport Ops: You can show 29 as open

Airport Ops to Twr: Did you ever get a hold of that Southwest plane once he was airborne or is he MIA.

Twr: we never talked to the aircraft, we were technically not open until 45 so never did talk to him.

Airport Ops: Didn’t know if you had him on the departure frequency currently

Twr: No, no, he’s up and out, he went with the center the whole way

Airport Ops: …his departure (garbled)

Twr: …not either considering you were on the runway and had to exit and he wasn’t even on the CTAF

[Lake1952]

Despite all appearances, I am not trying to pile on Southwest. But here is yet another disturbing example of a casual attitude and lack of situational awareness on the part of the crew and their dispatch folks by failing to note a rather important NOTAM about a closed runway. It was 545A local which is about 30 minutes after sunrise. An more observant crew may have noted the construction vehicle that fortunately cleared off the runway in time.

[galaxy flyer]

More like 45 minutes after sunrise, it was bright daylight.

[BonnieLass]

Southwest (again) Take off from "closed" runway despite ATC warnings

June 25th at Portland Int. Jetport, a Southwest flight (number 4805) took off from a closed runway despite being warned against doing so by ATC due to the runway being officially closed and a vehicle being present on it. Although the aircraft took off safely, the NTSB are naturally investigating the incident and why the crew aboard the flight apparently disregarded the instructions given to them.

https://simpleflying.com/southwest-a...tland-jetport/

[Capn Bloggs]

Simple Flying is nothing more than an enthusiastic amateur website. Do they really think a crew would ignore such an "instruction"? ATC was not in operation (post 1 and 2), SW wasn't on the CTAF and so they didn't hear the "instruction" to disregard.

Now, doing something that a NOTAM says you shouldn't and not being on the CTAF are major screwups, but they did not disregard an ATC instruction.

[MerseyView]

It can be easy to miss an important NOTAM in amongst all the pointless ones. My base has over 60 active NOTAMS of which over 95% were not worth reading, half of them temporary cranes that require no action.

[Speed_Trim_Fail]

Originally Posted by MerseyView

It can be easy to miss an important NOTAM in amongst all the pointless ones. My base has over 60 active NOTAMS of which over 95% were not worth reading, half of them temporary cranes that require no action.

I used to have a briefing package that would automatically highlight any NOTAM with words like CLSD, ILS, RWY, U/S etc in bold and red. It was a fantastic tool and should be mandatory.

[Junkflyer]

My airline does not require phone contact with dispatch for non-oceanic flights. May be the same for SWA.
I always call to ensure there was nothing I missed.

[tdracer]

It is disappointing and rather alarming that SWA is having so many events as of late.
For a long time I considered Southwest as being one of the better run airlines - but these recent events appear to be far more than a statistical anomaly or 'bad luck'.
I hope they get their act together before this all ends up in a smoking hole.

[BlankBox]

Southwest - 3 minute fame

Airport employees in Portland, Maine, were forced to clear out of the way when a Southwest Airlines jet on the morning of June 25 took off from a closed runway, according to air traffic control recordings.

Controllers and pilots warned the crew of Southwest 4805 several times that the runway was closed, the recordings made by LiveATC.net show. The incident is now under investigation by the National Transportation Safety Board and Federal Aviation Administration, and Southwest says it is engaged with both regulators.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/28/busin...way/index.html

​​​​​​​...more clowning around?

[BFSGrad]

Originally Posted by MerseyView

It can be easy to miss an important NOTAM in amongst all the pointless ones.

The CNN article linked in post #11 seems to indicate that the SWA flight crew was aware of the runway closure based on their dialogue with Boston ATC. What is still a mystery is SWA’s absence from the CTAF.

[EXDAC]

Originally Posted by BFSGrad

What is still a mystery is SWA’s absence from the CTAF.

Ok, let's poll the pilots who frequent this space. Who, with two or more COM radios, or with flip/flop frequency selectors, has never transmitted on an unintended frequency? I admit to having done it at least once.

[KRviator]

Originally Posted by EXDAC

Ok, let's poll the pilots who frequent this space. Who, with two or more COM radios, or with flip/flop frequency selectors, has never transmitted on an unintended frequency? I admit to having done it at least once.

Transmit, certainly. Done it myself. Monitoring the CTAF? Nope. But no doubt it does happen, if they've turned the CTAF down while talking to Center and never turned it up again. Doubt there'll be CVR to work out who-said-what and what they heard, but what I find particularly interesting was the crew's claimed response to being challenged on their departure time:

Southwest pilot: “I thought it opened at :45. There was no markings or anywhere.”
Controller: “It did open at :45, but you departed at :42.”
​​​​​​​Pilot: “That’s not what we’re showing, but ok.”

Blind reliance on the WIP adhering to the scheduled finish time stated in the NOTAM without any attempt at contacting the worksite supervisor or safety car or whatnot to confirm it hasn't overrun the NOTAM'd finish time ain't smart - especially if you want to use that particular runway. And claiming they departed after time 45 but ATC has them off at 42 is what? At least a 4-minute difference, I can't imagine an airline crew getting that kind of timing so badly wrong...

[BFSGrad]

ADS-B data shows that SWA 4805 lined up on runway 29 at 0942:25Z, initiated takeoff at 0942:35Z, and crossed the departure end of runway 29 at 0943:15Z.

[Chiefttp]

I fly 757/767’s into non-towered airport often. The procedures are clear, self announce on CTAF your location, intentions, type aircraft etc. Any personnel on the ground are suppossed to monitor CTAF. Many times, especially in a situation similar to this event, where the airport is a few minutes from opening, Airport authorities will perform a runway check a few minutes prior to the Tower opening . It’s obvious Southwest wasn’t monitoring CTAF, and was probably coordinating with the ATC center for his take-off clearance and Release. You have to monitor ATC AND CTAF. If this crew was not familiar with the procedures, I can easily see them believing they were cleared to takeoff, since ATC issued them their takeoff clearance and release time. By the way, your release time is good plus or minus 5 minutes from takeoff time, which may be part of the reason why the crew felt it was OK to depart. Either way, there is no excuse for not transmitting your intentions and monitoring the CTAF freq.

[BFSGrad]

Transcript of LiveATC comms, 0930Z file, ZBW16. Non-relevant comms not included.

SWA Center, Southwest 4805
ZBW Southwest 4805, Boston Center
SWA Yes sir, on the ground at Portland, will be #1 for departure runway 29
ZBW Roger, stand by
ZBW Southwest 4805, amend altitude on departure, climb and maintain 4000, you are released for departure, clearance void if not off in 3 minutes, if not off in 3 minutes, advise Boston Center no later than 5 minutes of intentions
SWA Copy that change in altitude of 4000 feet, void in 3 minutes, we’re ready to go
RPA Boston Center, Brickyard 5760, #1 at runway 36 for departure at Portland
ZBW Brickyard 5760, Boston Center, roger, continue to hold, I’ve got one rolling now
RPA copy that
SWA Center, Southwest 4805, 1.2 for 4000… (end of transmission garbled)
ZBW Southwest 4805, you are radar contact just 1 mile west of Portland, climb and maintain flight level 340
SWA 340, Southwest 4805
ZBW Southwest 4805, out of 3000 cleared direct Nelly (sp?)
SWA Out of 3000, direct Nelly, Southwest 4805
UNK Did he just takeoff a closed runway? (Unknown source, soft transmission)
UNK Yes (Unknown source, soft transmission)
ZBW I’m sorry, last calling, say again, I was on the line with Portland
ZBW Southwest 4805, Boston
SWA Yeah, go ahead
ZBW Just trying to check, did you depart runway 28, 29?
SWA We did depart 29
ZBW That runway was closed
SWA I thought it opened at 45, there were no markings anywhere

No further relevant comms in the final 10 minutes of the audio file.

[galaxy flyer]

Originally Posted by Chiefttp

I fly 757/767’s into non-towered airport often. The procedures are clear, self announce on CTAF your location, intentions, type aircraft etc. Any personnel on the ground are suppossed to monitor CTAF. Many times, especially in a situation similar to this event, where the airport is a few minutes from opening, Airport authorities will perform a runway check a few minutes prior to the Tower opening . It’s obvious Southwest wasn’t monitoring CTAF, and was probably coordinating with the ATC center for his take-off clearance and Release. You have to monitor ATC AND CTAF. If this crew was not familiar with the procedures, I can easily see them believing they were cleared to takeoff, since ATC issued them their takeoff clearance and release time. By the way, your release time is good plus or minus 5 minutes from takeoff time, which may be part of the reason why the crew felt it was OK to depart. Either way, there is no excuse for not transmitting your intentions and monitoring the CTAF freq.

Just to clarify, WN 4805 was NOT cleared for take-off from KPWM, He was released by ZBW but taxi and takeoff was from an uncontrolled field as the tower was not open. Portland ATCT was coming in and saw the departure, asked ZBW to, basically, get WN to confess they took off from a closed runway. When it’s an uncontrolled field a take-off clearance is not issued, it’s up to the crew to clear themselves.

Also, there’s not tolerance on a void time, you must be airborne by the void time. They were given 3 minutes to be airborne, no +/- about it. I believe you’re confusing an ATC “wheels up” (EDCT) time which does have a tolerance with a void time. The +/-5 minutes is there for the local control to the get departure in position to meet the EDCT. Two very different things.

REF: FAA JO 7110.65AA para. 4-3-4

EDIT: I just realized by ZBW gave such a short void time—they knew in 4 minutes the tower would open and would be issuing a take-off clearance. ZBW wouldn’t “own” the PWM Class D

[Chiefttp]

Good info Galaxy..I was referring to a release time. I believe you can takeoff up to 5 min early for a release time, but not one second later (Void time)
I had a strange incident at an uncontrolled airport years ago. Nothing came from it, but I had to educate my F/O on his radio discipline. We were approaching an uncontrolled airport. My F/O lived in the area and was a single guy who liked the cute girl who worked in my company’s Ops office. He told me he was familiar with non-Towered radio calls,(10 miles out, 5 miles out, etc etc) I’m flying the approach and I hear him transmitting on the radio that we’re 5 miles away, then he said, “Landing soon” etc.. turns out he was chatting up the girl on our company freq and not CTAF!

[galaxy flyer]

Well, maybe I’ve in more remote locations but never received a release time in these situations, just, “Nxxx, you are released, void if not airborne by xxxx, if not off by xxxx, advise ATC of intentions”. Since released means now there’s no way to be earlier. I departed Koror, Palau (Class G) once with an instruction to report a fix on the Manila border. Once airborne, I call Oakland with airborne report. The other pilot said, we only have to report the fix to which I said they need to know we’re airborne. These situations are not that common for loads of pilots.

The EDCT is like the Euro Control slot times with a tolerance on either side.