Alaska Airlines 737-900 MAX loses a door in-flight out of PDX
There are some interesting photos here, and a description of the maintenance checks being carried out on AA's MAX planes.
https://news.alaskaair.com/alaska-ai...tions/as-1282/
If you download the media kit they are in high resolution.
https://news.alaskaair.com/alaska-ai...tions/as-1282/
If you download the media kit they are in high resolution.
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US industry has mostly been metric since 1959. The inch was redefined as 25.4mm exactly as in Europe.
US lathes can turn metric threads and European lathes can turn Imperial or 'Customary unit' threads. This is achieved by the change wheels or gears on the end of the lathe. The two gears have 127 and 50 teeth. !27/50 = 2.54 .....natch!
US lathes can turn metric threads and European lathes can turn Imperial or 'Customary unit' threads. This is achieved by the change wheels or gears on the end of the lathe. The two gears have 127 and 50 teeth. !27/50 = 2.54 .....natch!
Last edited by MarineEngineer; 6th Feb 2024 at 17:22.
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House Sub-committee on Aviation hearing … Aviation and FAA
House Sub-committee on Aviation hearing … Aviation and FAA … just ended
Single witness Administrator of FAA Whitaker.
Variety of FAA wide questions. Some on AK 1282 but no new information, apart from the fact that the NTSB briefs members of the sub-committee (again tomorrow) and maybe higher committee too. First time I ever heard that.
Most attention for:
FAA Reauthorisation Act that passed House but delayed in Senate.
Housing illegal immigrants on airports.
BVLOS/drones rule making.
ATCO hiring.
ATC old infrastructure… high alt centers 50yrs design now 60…
heli noise
pilot age over 65
etcetera
On AK 1282 mr Whitaker:
more FAA inspectors at Boeing and now Spirit too, resp 25&12.
FAA Boeing Safety Culture Survey.
his est 90% of 171 back in air.
Look at delegation in design now look at same in manufacturing too.
No other acute findings yet.
But lots of missdrilled holes around windows, too close to edge.
Looking into 3rd party review of both FAA and Boeing. Including manufacturing.
FAA present paper audit to be augmented by more hands on.
One older representative said it felt like NASA before the Challenger disaster.
Boeing processes no good as non compliant and non safe aircraft came out of it …. but weathers that down a little later it seems.
Single witness Administrator of FAA Whitaker.
Variety of FAA wide questions. Some on AK 1282 but no new information, apart from the fact that the NTSB briefs members of the sub-committee (again tomorrow) and maybe higher committee too. First time I ever heard that.
Most attention for:
FAA Reauthorisation Act that passed House but delayed in Senate.
Housing illegal immigrants on airports.
BVLOS/drones rule making.
ATCO hiring.
ATC old infrastructure… high alt centers 50yrs design now 60…
heli noise
pilot age over 65
etcetera
On AK 1282 mr Whitaker:
more FAA inspectors at Boeing and now Spirit too, resp 25&12.
FAA Boeing Safety Culture Survey.
his est 90% of 171 back in air.
Look at delegation in design now look at same in manufacturing too.
No other acute findings yet.
But lots of missdrilled holes around windows, too close to edge.
Looking into 3rd party review of both FAA and Boeing. Including manufacturing.
FAA present paper audit to be augmented by more hands on.
One older representative said it felt like NASA before the Challenger disaster.
Boeing processes no good as non compliant and non safe aircraft came out of it …. but weathers that down a little later it seems.
Last edited by A0283; 6th Feb 2024 at 17:28.
House Sub-committee on Aviation hearing … Aviation and FAA … just ended
Single witness Administrator of FAA Whitaker.
Variety of questions. Some on AK 1282 but no new information, apart from the fact that the NTSB briefs members of the sub-committee (again tomorrow) and maybe higher committee too. First time I ever heard that.
Single witness Administrator of FAA Whitaker.
Variety of questions. Some on AK 1282 but no new information, apart from the fact that the NTSB briefs members of the sub-committee (again tomorrow) and maybe higher committee too. First time I ever heard that.
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The National Transportation Safety Board will release its preliminary report 2pm EST Tuesday afternoon on last month’s blowout of a part of an Alaska Airlines Boeing 737 Max 9 flight, NTSB spokesman Eric Weiss told CNN.
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Post # 1620 Photos
More metric feeler gauges in use!! Looks like there is a specified clearance spec to ensure the door is centred side to side and that the roller/guide engagement is also in spec?
More metric feeler gauges in use!! Looks like there is a specified clearance spec to ensure the door is centred side to side and that the roller/guide engagement is also in spec?
Pegase Driver
One older representative said it felt like NASA before the Challenger disaster.
Preliminary report should be available in CAROL?
In-flight structural failure, Alaska Airlines flight 1282
What Happened
This information is preliminary and subject to change. Release Date: 6 February 2024On January 5, 2024, about 1714 Pacific standard time, Alaska Airlines flight 1282, a Boeing 737-9, N704AL, returned to Portland International Airport (PDX), Portland, Oregon, after the left mid exit door (MED) plug departed the airplane leading to a rapid decompression. The airplane landed on runway 28L at PDX without further incident, and all occupants (2 flight crewmembers, 4 cabin crewmembers, and 171 passengers) deplaned at the gate. Seven passengers and one flight attendant received minor injuries. The flight was operated under Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations(CFR) Part 121 as a scheduled domestic passenger flight from PDX to Ontario, California (ONT).
Read the Preliminary Report now available for download in CAROL - NTSB's query tool to find information about investigations and recommendations.
Could not enter CAROL
at 2144Z Download Preliminary Report. which also required a sign-in.
Last edited by A0283; 6th Feb 2024 at 18:48.
The money shot...
Overall, the observed damage patterns and absence of contact damage or deformation around holes associated with the vertical movement arrestor bolts and upper guide track bolts in the upper guide fittings, hinge fittings, and recovered aft lower hinge guide fitting indicate that the four bolts that prevent upward movement of the MED plug were missing before the MED plug moved upward off the stop pads.
<<Insert sound of palm slap against forehead>>
Overall, the observed damage patterns and absence of contact damage or deformation around holes associated with the vertical movement arrestor bolts and upper guide track bolts in the upper guide fittings, hinge fittings, and recovered aft lower hinge guide fitting indicate that the four bolts that prevent upward movement of the MED plug were missing before the MED plug moved upward off the stop pads.
<<Insert sound of palm slap against forehead>>
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NY Times:
"Four bolts used to secure the panel that ultimately blew off an Alaska Airlines plane during a flight last month were removed — and appear not to have been replaced — at Boeing’s factory in Renton, Wash., according to a preliminary report released Tuesday by the National Transportation Safety Board."As evidence, the N.T.S.B. provided a photograph of the door plug after it was reinstalled but before the plane’s interior was restored. In the image, three of the four bolts appear to be missing. The location of the fourth bolt is covered with insulation.
"The report said the image had been attached to “a text message between Boeing team members on September 19, 2023.” The Boeing employees “were discussing interior restoration after the rivet rework was completed during second shift operations that day,” the report said."
"Four bolts used to secure the panel that ultimately blew off an Alaska Airlines plane during a flight last month were removed — and appear not to have been replaced — at Boeing’s factory in Renton, Wash., according to a preliminary report released Tuesday by the National Transportation Safety Board."As evidence, the N.T.S.B. provided a photograph of the door plug after it was reinstalled but before the plane’s interior was restored. In the image, three of the four bolts appear to be missing. The location of the fourth bolt is covered with insulation.
"The report said the image had been attached to “a text message between Boeing team members on September 19, 2023.” The Boeing employees “were discussing interior restoration after the rivet rework was completed during second shift operations that day,” the report said."
NY Times:
"Four bolts used to secure the panel that ultimately blew off an Alaska Airlines plane during a flight last month were removed — and appear not to have been replaced — at Boeing’s factory in Renton, Wash., according to a preliminary report released Tuesday by the National Transportation Safety Board."As evidence, the N.T.S.B. provided a photograph of the door plug after it was reinstalled but before the plane’s interior was restored. In the image, three of the four bolts appear to be missing. The location of the fourth bolt is covered with insulation.
"The report said the image had been attached to “a text message between Boeing team members on September 19, 2023.” The Boeing employees “were discussing interior restoration after the rivet rework was completed during second shift operations that day,” the report said."
"Four bolts used to secure the panel that ultimately blew off an Alaska Airlines plane during a flight last month were removed — and appear not to have been replaced — at Boeing’s factory in Renton, Wash., according to a preliminary report released Tuesday by the National Transportation Safety Board."As evidence, the N.T.S.B. provided a photograph of the door plug after it was reinstalled but before the plane’s interior was restored. In the image, three of the four bolts appear to be missing. The location of the fourth bolt is covered with insulation.
"The report said the image had been attached to “a text message between Boeing team members on September 19, 2023.” The Boeing employees “were discussing interior restoration after the rivet rework was completed during second shift operations that day,” the report said."
. Not only were the bolts not there, but someone had a photo showing they weren't there...
If everyone could "see" what was or wasn't there, there would be no need for checklists. How big would the photo be on a cell phone screen? How many pixels would the fasteners take up? If they were scaled to more than dark spots I'd be surprised.
There should have been a checklist for the door that was generated before the torque-striped fasteners were removed to gain access for the rivet repair.
There should have been a checklist for the door that was generated before the torque-striped fasteners were removed to gain access for the rivet repair.
If everyone could "see" what was or wasn't there, there would be no need for checklists. How big would the photo be on a cell phone screen? How many pixels would the fasteners take up? If they were scaled to more than dark spots I'd be surprised.
There should have been a checklist for the door that was generated before the torque-striped fasteners were removed to gain access for the rivet repair.
There should have been a checklist for the door that was generated before the torque-striped fasteners were removed to gain access for the rivet repair.
Earlier in the thread there was some discussion about the strength of the two 'lift assist' springs and whether they would push the door plug up and out of the closed position in the absence of the lock bolts. Looking at the photo a couple of posts back, the one remaining spring does not look very substantial. To me, the only thing that makes sense is that the springs provide just enough force to allow the plug to be lifted safely by someone. Otherwise it just sits there resting on the top of the upper guides (until it doesn't).
The BBC are running the NTSB report story. There is nothing that has not been said in the last few posts but it is here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68220627
Preliminary report AK 1282
http://avherald.com/files/Report_DCA...22_52%20PM.pdf
NTSB site didn’t respond, so checked others
19 page report
NTSB site didn’t respond, so checked others
19 page report
NY Times:
"The report said the image had been attached to “a text message between Boeing team members on September 19, 2023.” The Boeing employees “were discussing interior restoration after the rivet rework was completed during second shift operations that day,” the report said."
"The report said the image had been attached to “a text message between Boeing team members on September 19, 2023.” The Boeing employees “were discussing interior restoration after the rivet rework was completed during second shift operations that day,” the report said."
Jedi mind tricks, after all!
Looking at the photos and estimating the spring parameters:
10 coils
.125 inch diameter music wire
1.6 inch OD
Gives a fully compressed load of over 50 lbf per spring and a rate of about 10 pounds per inch; that would leave 70-80 pounds of lift at the time the fingers cleared.
17-7 stainless is a few percent decrease in force and rate.
If the wire diameter is 0.09 inch, then it drops to 40 pounds fully compressed for the pair and 2.5 pounds per inch, so 35 pounds to clear the fingers.
C'mon NTSB, these are day 1, did the parts conform questions/answers.
Maybe the door seals are just that sticky?
They have the previous 16 flights. Was the last one with a big slam on the landing? Something popped that door up and if it wasn't the springs, what was it?
10 coils
.125 inch diameter music wire
1.6 inch OD
Gives a fully compressed load of over 50 lbf per spring and a rate of about 10 pounds per inch; that would leave 70-80 pounds of lift at the time the fingers cleared.
17-7 stainless is a few percent decrease in force and rate.
If the wire diameter is 0.09 inch, then it drops to 40 pounds fully compressed for the pair and 2.5 pounds per inch, so 35 pounds to clear the fingers.
C'mon NTSB, these are day 1, did the parts conform questions/answers.
Maybe the door seals are just that sticky?
They have the previous 16 flights. Was the last one with a big slam on the landing? Something popped that door up and if it wasn't the springs, what was it?
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Interestingly on a photo in the report a Boeing technician is holding the partially stripped door seal into the camera, which may be too long to fit without buckling. The report mentions a non-conformity considered tolerable at Spirit regarding the seal. This further corrobates the story of the wistleblower about the process failure, avoiding an official entry about the opening of the plug as a shortcut.
Last edited by spornrad; 6th Feb 2024 at 20:52.
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The report shows in Figure 14 that the four bolts WERE present prior to the removal of the plug door for rivet repair at Boeing Renton by Spirit AeroSystems.
In Figure 15 the plug is shown opened for the rivet repair by Spirit AeroSystems at Boeing Renton, and the bolts would have to be removed for this process. Three holes are visible, and of course they do not have a bolt installed.
edit: The report does not speculate on where the bolts went after removal. There is no "parts bag" visible, nor any indication given what is the procedure for hardware storage during rework.
Figure 16 shows the plug reinstalled after rivet repair by Spirit AeroSystems at Boeing Renton. Three holes are visible and none contain a bolt. The fourth hole is covered by insulation. The text leads the assumption that this was the condition of the door immediately prior to covering it up with insulation and interior finishings. The report does not speculate on whether the bolts could have been installed after the photo was taken, rather it presumes that no further work was performed. I am not sure how the NTSB determined this point, perhaps the photo is always taken at the conclusion of work.
No work was subsequently noted on that plug, and the installation of WiFi systems by AAR, Oklahoma City did not involve opening the plug.
In Figure 15 the plug is shown opened for the rivet repair by Spirit AeroSystems at Boeing Renton, and the bolts would have to be removed for this process. Three holes are visible, and of course they do not have a bolt installed.
edit: The report does not speculate on where the bolts went after removal. There is no "parts bag" visible, nor any indication given what is the procedure for hardware storage during rework.
Figure 16 shows the plug reinstalled after rivet repair by Spirit AeroSystems at Boeing Renton. Three holes are visible and none contain a bolt. The fourth hole is covered by insulation. The text leads the assumption that this was the condition of the door immediately prior to covering it up with insulation and interior finishings. The report does not speculate on whether the bolts could have been installed after the photo was taken, rather it presumes that no further work was performed. I am not sure how the NTSB determined this point, perhaps the photo is always taken at the conclusion of work.
No work was subsequently noted on that plug, and the installation of WiFi systems by AAR, Oklahoma City did not involve opening the plug.