JAL incident at Haneda Airport
Possibly a runway incursion by the coast guard aircraft, a clearance to line up behind being misunderstood as line up. If the coast guard aircraft was high wing they could have had difficulty in seeing an aircraft approaching from above. The JAL aircraft would have been in a nose up attitude which would have restricted their view, and being night time, all the holes in the Swiss cheese lined up.
I haven’t operated into Haneda but the complexity of the taxiways at Narita was certainly memorable.
I haven’t operated into Haneda but the complexity of the taxiways at Narita was certainly memorable.
AVHerald reporting that there was no command to evacuate. "A first announcement was made "please calm down" followed by "do not take your luggage and do not stand up". There was no clear announcement to evacuate, however, when other passengers stood up they also stood up and thus escaped." Avherald
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Europe
Age: 54
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On ground movement maps for RJTT, the four runways are designated according to the corresponding taxiways letters, A, B, C, and D - 16L-34R being depicted as "C-RWY".
Whilst not criticising the passengers - I am not there and certainly not in a position to know the circumstances - some of the images do show what seem to be mobile phones "on" and in some cases "deployed" by the passengers. I wonder if they used the flashlight function [cabin dark?] or where they tempted to memorialise things? Or both, of course.
The ambient lightning outside of the acrft doesn't seem to require trhe use of additional mobile phone lighting in any case. I know in my personal case, I'd take longer to swipe to the damn function for it to be of use in an emergency situation.
The ambient lightning outside of the acrft doesn't seem to require trhe use of additional mobile phone lighting in any case. I know in my personal case, I'd take longer to swipe to the damn function for it to be of use in an emergency situation.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: UK
Age: 62
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DHC-8's usually disappear from both FR24 and ADS-B Exchange once they get below around 2,000 feet, it's something to do with the transponders they have.
Just for reference for those discussing tracking the coastguard aircraft, searching the reported registration of the aircraft involved (JA722A) shows it arriving into Haneda 21 hours ago, it also shows that it is tracked via MLAT, with the last tracked position being just before the runway threshold.
I've copied this from multilateration.info describing how MLAT works:
From that information, providing the reported registration is correct we can assume that the aircraft was not broadcasting ADS-B data, would only be able to be tracked via MLAT and therefore there is no publicly accessible tracking data for it on the ground.
I've copied this from multilateration.info describing how MLAT works:
- "MLAT ground stations receive replies from all transponder-equipped aircraft, including legacy radar and ADS-B avionics, and determine aircraft position based on the time difference of arrival (TDOA) of the replies."
From that information, providing the reported registration is correct we can assume that the aircraft was not broadcasting ADS-B data, would only be able to be tracked via MLAT and therefore there is no publicly accessible tracking data for it on the ground.
Whilst not criticising the passengers - I am not there and certainly not in a position to know the circumstances - some of the images do show what seem to be mobile phones "on" and in some cases "deployed" by the passengers. I wonder if they used the flashlight function [cabin dark?] or where they tempted to memorialise things? Or both, of course.
The ambient lightning outside of the acrft doesn't seem to require trhe use of additional mobile phone lighting in any case. I know in my personal case, I'd take longer to swipe to the damn function for it to be of use in an emergency situation.
The ambient lightning outside of the acrft doesn't seem to require trhe use of additional mobile phone lighting in any case. I know in my personal case, I'd take longer to swipe to the damn function for it to be of use in an emergency situation.
As everyone got off alive I suggest that the form of learning here can take the form WWW/EBI - What Worked Well/Even Better If
Join Date: Aug 2023
Location: UK
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At approx 17:29 (0847z) of that ATC audio, there are crackly remnants of a line up and wait instruction/read back. Can't tell for which runway or aircraft its relating to, but could be pertinent in case anyone has access to better audio/ears than me
Well this seems like another well handled evacuation from a professional crew which reminds me of another crash where all escaped thanks to the crew of the Air France Airbus 340 in Toronto many years ago. Many people are alive today thanks to this JAL crew.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Switzerland, Singapore
Posts: 1,309
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is no collision warning system on the ground. As soon as you touch down, those systems switch off. How would you navigate on the ground otherwise?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Moved back to enemy territory... Leeds!!
Age: 50
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well it's pretty non scientific but using FR24 I've had a look at a few random recent JL516 arrivals in to HND and for northerly arrivals they've all been on 34R, not seen a single L, I'd say I've looked at 12-15.
Whilst not criticising the passengers - I am not there and certainly not in a position to know the circumstances - some of the images do show what seem to be mobile phones "on" and in some cases "deployed" by the passengers. I wonder if they used the flashlight function [cabin dark?] or where they tempted to memorialise things? Or both, of course.
The ambient lightning outside of the acrft doesn't seem to require trhe use of additional mobile phone lighting in any case. I know in my personal case, I'd take longer to swipe to the damn function for it to be of use in an emergency situation.
The ambient lightning outside of the acrft doesn't seem to require trhe use of additional mobile phone lighting in any case. I know in my personal case, I'd take longer to swipe to the damn function for it to be of use in an emergency situation.
The following users liked this post:
I’ve thought about this for a long time. I flew Ryanair in Europe once, 99% of the passengers were uni-aged kids and the emergency exit seats had been bought by an old couple. And I mean old. Like 80. So they clearly paid for more comfort whereas the kids wouldn’t. If something had happened they were the wrong people to have manning the exit. (I was in the exit row on the other side)
I am 81. I flew 737's for 25years. I still give my full attention to the safety brief, in spite of all the times I did my safety training, and opened an overwing hatch for real. I suspect that I would be more likely to open the hatch in an emergency that a uni-age kid who did not lift his eyes from his computer game during the safety brief.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: SIN
Age: 48
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A350 approaching on the opposite side to the Dash's captain.
I'm impressed at how, with this damage, the A350 crew controlled the rollout and stopped on the runway, and equally impressed at how tough the A350 structure appears to be.
Apart from the A400M prototype this is the first burnout of a composite wide body that I'm aware of. Composite structure must have a different flammability profile to aluminium alloy, and I wonder whether that explains the firefighting approach?
I'm impressed at how, with this damage, the A350 crew controlled the rollout and stopped on the runway, and equally impressed at how tough the A350 structure appears to be.
Apart from the A400M prototype this is the first burnout of a composite wide body that I'm aware of. Composite structure must have a different flammability profile to aluminium alloy, and I wonder whether that explains the firefighting approach?
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Between security and gate...
Age: 46
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
https://www.mlit.go.jp/koku/haneda/p...glish_vol2.pdf
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One thing to note on the firefighting: The fire appears to be small, with the lonely 2 people extinguishing it from the front/back of the #1 engine, and then does appear to die down (around 18:21 local in the timestamp in the video below). However, then the fire comes back with a vengeance, and around 18:24:40 a third person appears and goes first to the firefighter in front, then to the one behind the engine, and seems to pull them away and tell them to abort. Don't they have radio contact?
Video: "JAL flight516 is on fire at HANEDA airport after landing", referenced in post #148, youtube identifier A0FCKcTuRHo
Video: "JAL flight516 is on fire at HANEDA airport after landing", referenced in post #148, youtube identifier A0FCKcTuRHo